Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme [Archive] - Page 6

Jerry Lee

30th Aug 2010, 19:04

@Jerry Lee: Yeah, so? Maybe, that if you would have some flight experience or very much flight experience is OK. But you can still apply to the scheme if you have none experience..Yes, I know. But I was wondering if a PPL with more than 100 hours can help.
Jerry, "this answer has no sense" sounds a little... well i'll leave you to discover but it's not very nice
Sorry for this, I didn't want to be aggressive or not nice. Sorry again, but I did the question because I've known about those 2 OAA's graduates.
It may help you, but I don't think it will harm you. During my interviews, they did ask me if I am so interested in flying, why did I never get my PPL. The interviewer told me to look into getting a PPL first if I was to reapply.

Also, the recruitment lady stressed to keep them updated with your hours, so I believe that it can be a factor to get you in.

In the end, it all comes down to how they think about you during the interviews. If you have 0 hours and will be able to persuade them that you love flying, then the PPL is probably not necessary. But the PPL can help to show your interests. Ok thank you!
I'm gonna make the modular route to get the ATPL, but if I will be called by Cathay Pacific even only for Stage 1 it would be great!

LA-250

30th Aug 2010, 21:19

Hi Michelle.C,

Marriott is indeed the best deal at the airport. Only they don't have any rooms available at my dates... Apparently very popular hotel, must have something to do with the price I guess... :)

Best luck to you the 2nd!

herrtob

1st Sep 2010, 16:57

did you call them or at least email? it's not unheard of that forms are dropped/forgotten for no reason. i waited more than 6months before chasing it up and got a date the next day

good luck and keep it up

Malov

1st Sep 2010, 18:19

How many applicants are there in a year? Tens of thousands! Be cool, they`ll contact you, for the interview details or to reject your app :) And if you don`t hear anything, drop them a few lines now and then and update your application if anything (if anything has changed).

There are people that have waited longer than a year for an inviation to an interview.

Hang in there! :ok:

monkeybiz

4th Sep 2010, 02:35

Dear Cathay PPRUNER's

I was just informed that I've been selected for the Cadetship. I'm incredibly grateful for the willingness of you all to share such thorough information throughout. In return, I am happy to answer and questions etc about my experience during recruitment and flight grading. I ask that questions that have been well covered in this forum aren't asked again. Also, I wont be answering private messages, as this defeats the purpose of the forum. This was a primary source of info for me over the past 6 months, and those truly interested in this cadetship should sift through its entirety. Good luck!

ANT

herrtob

4th Sep 2010, 03:15

yup if they say you wait then you're still in the system so you wait. meanwhile do something worthwhile like read everything you can for the recruitment process as well as do something you won't be able to do when you have a job, because if you're good enough and get accepted you'll be very busy for a very long time. good luck!

THE_WING

4th Sep 2010, 10:54

@monkeybiz..

Congrats!!!

May we ask what books did you refer for your interviews and what questions were asked to you differently?

Thanks

Arthur

monkeybiz

4th Sep 2010, 12:38

I began by summarising all of my CPL theory books. I then moved onto "handling the big jets", "how to ace the technical pilot interview", "Captain XYZ guide to Cathay Pacific Interview (something like that)", "mental mathematics for pilots". That was all I can remember off the top of my head. My study was ongoing over a couple of months. Equip yourself with as much knowledge as reasonably possible. The study program I developed for myself was easily the hardest few months of my life, but it was completely necessary. There is no other way to get in, I can promise you that.

orangeboy

4th Sep 2010, 13:01

congrats monkey!

will you be doing the short course or long course then since you have your CPL?

what was the flying assessment you had to do at flight grading?

Eddie757

4th Sep 2010, 17:03

Congratulations! Sounds like you put a lot of effort into the interview process and got what you deserve!

I too have my CPL. Additionally I have my CFI and CFII with just over 1000 hrs. I have my stage 1 in HK in 2 weeks. Due to my experience do you expect the interview questions to be different than someone with less flight time? What kind of questions would you expect being in my shoes?

Thanks! :ok:

polair911

5th Sep 2010, 02:13

not to shoot you down or anything buddy, but if you have 1000 hours and CFI (Chief FLying Instructor?) qualification.....are you ready to give up the potential in USA and start all over again in HK?? It's not as easy to live here as u think. just my 2c people.

Good luck anyway.

PA911

herrtob

5th Sep 2010, 02:46

CFI would be Certificated Flight Instructor, I'm guessing.

polair911

5th Sep 2010, 02:56

i see....cos judging from my minimal knowledge within the industry, I just think there's gonna be a better way than starting all over again when you have 1000 hours and being a CFI. especially after reading what other people posted on this topic, living is gonna be expensive and you dun get to log as much hrs (P2X or what ever they call it)

How's the market in the USA and Canada??

monkeybiz

5th Sep 2010, 03:15

orangeboy -

mate I didn't mean to imply I had my CPL, I had just already done the theory exams thus having the books. I was on advanced flight grading. There are some pretty good descriptions of whats involved in flight grading in other posts. I completed three flights in the Grob and then three simulator sessions in the DA42 (G1000). Its all about rate of improvement and ability to absorb and utilise constructive criticism.

Roxy_Chick_1989 -

1. The reasoning tests etc CAN be prepared for. I sought out as many pattern recognition quizzes or links that have been provided in previous posts and I consistently practiced them. None were completely similar to those in the actual test, but the combination of them all pretty much covers it. I found the math pretty difficult. I did as much preparation as I could, but I honestly believe I would have got around 12ish /33. A trap that so many people fall into is feeling like its all over when you stuff something up. THEY EXPECT THIS, and will be noting your performance for the rest of the day. They will be looking to see if after your stuff up, did you fall to pieces, or did you regather yourself and improve. Keep your **** together and you will be fine.

2. I had never been to Hong Kong before my interview. However I researched it thoroughly. I made sure that anything they asked me about HK wouldn't be a surprise. I was able to tell them where I would live, how much rent would be, how much food would cost per week, where i could socialise, where i could continue to do my hobbies, the population breakdown, the religions, languages... Know absolutely EVERYTHING. It really impresses them.

Eddie757 -

The questions they ask you will INITIALLY be commensurate with your experience (so now everything you've been taught well). Once they see that you are well informed in these areas, they will then move onto questions that they don't really expect you to know. There are two paths from here. The first is that you know the answer through further research which is very impressing to the interviewers. The second is that you dont know the answer, but you work through it logically, and give a substantiated answer without blatantly guessing. They want to see how you think.

Eddie757

5th Sep 2010, 04:19

Thats right, CFI = Certified Flight Instructor.
CFII = Certified Flight Instructor-Instrument.

This opportunity is better than the opportunities in the USA, even for someone with reasonable flight experience. I even know a few guys with over 2500 hrs, including twin turboprop time, who have applied.

There are way more pilots than there are jobs around here, and the guys who do have the jobs are barely able to make their rent. Approximately 7 - 10 years of flying before you are qualified to apply for a major, and if you do get the job, there's a decent chance of being furloughed. The economy is slowly recovering but the aviation industry does not look too promising. I would rather spend the next 7 years or so going through FTA and the SO job and then into the left seat of a widebody.

That's my view on it after being involved in aviation for 5 years in the USA.

I would like to hear your opinions.

orangeboy

5th Sep 2010, 04:32

eddie, the questions will be tailored to your background, it would not be logical asking everyone the same level of questions when there is such a large disparity in the experiences between applicants, goodluck with your stage 1 :ok:

Benj1

5th Sep 2010, 09:27

It depends on every individual, what the end product is for being a commercial pilot. Lets assume that the end product is getting command on a wide body, there are so many paths to get there.

Ab initio and being sponsored by an airline.
Getting your own licenses and hours and get on short course route.
Being a CFI and clocking hours for Direct Entry.
Etc etc.

It just depends on what path you would like to take en route to the end product. If you enjoy instructing and clocking hours as a CFI by all means. If you don't mind jump seating as an SO for afew years then its all good as well. Could also try joinning another airline or regional airlines to clock hours as well. etc etc

Many different ways to get there, no real right or wrong.

monkeybiz

5th Sep 2010, 12:48

orangeboy -

mate I didn't mean to imply I had my CPL, I had just already done the theory exams thus having the books. I was on advanced flight grading. There are some pretty good descriptions of whats involved in flight grading in other posts. I completed three flights in the Grob and then three simulator sessions in the DA42 (G1000). Its all about rate of improvement and ability to absorb and utilise constructive criticism.

Roxy_Chick_1989 -

1. The reasoning tests etc CAN be prepared for. I sought out as many pattern recognition quizzes or links that have been provided in previous posts and I consistently practiced them. None were completely similar to those in the actual test, but the combination of them all pretty much covers it. I found the math pretty difficult. I did as much preparation as I could, but I honestly believe I would have got around 12ish /33. A trap that so many people fall into is feeling like its all over when you stuff something up. They expect this, and will be noting your performance for the rest of the day. They will be looking to see if after your stuff up, did you fall to pieces, or did you regather yourself and improve. Keep your **** together and you will be fine.

2. I had never been to Hong Kong before my interview. However I researched it thoroughly. I made sure that anything they asked me about HK wouldn't be a surprise. I was able to tell them where I would live, how much rent would be, how much food would cost per week, where i could socialise, where i could continue to do my hobbies, the population breakdown, the religions, languages... Know absolutely everything. It really impresses them.

Eddie757 -

The questions they ask you will initially be commensurate with your experience (so now everything you've been taught well). Once they see that you are well informed in these areas, they will then move onto questions that they don't really expect you to know. There are two paths from here. The first is that you know the answer through further research which is very impressing to the interviewers. The second is that you dont know the answer, but you work through it logically, and give a substantiated answer without blatantly guessing. They want to see how you think.

holdmetight

5th Sep 2010, 13:42

Firstly, congratulations on making it into the programme! Well done and all the best with your upcoming training. :ok:

I have only two questions to ask you. I have asked something similar in a previous post but did not get a response, so here goes. During advanced flight grading, you mentioned that candidates do simulator sessions on the DA42 sim. I was just wondering what arrangements there will be for those with no prior multi-engine/CSU experience? I know it's a bit premature to worry about this with my Stage 2/3 just two days away, but I guess it would put my mind at ease if I know what might be coming up.

Thanks!

Smell the Coffee

5th Sep 2010, 13:58

Monkeybiz, well done mate you should feel proud of yourself. A lot of hard work ahead as you know, but look how far you've come and that will prove how much further you can go.

My earlier posts do reflect some concerns with this cadet programme, but nonetheless it is probably a good option for many who would otherwise struggle to finance their goals.

My question to you would be this; I pretty much recall all the questions from my stage 1. I managed most, but not all - some I worked out, one I did not.

Is it fair to say they may focus on these areas in any subsequent interviews to gauge whether you've "improved" on the 'weaker' links?

Was this your experience? Don't tell me you answered everything perfectly ! ;)

Thanks mate.

monkeybiz

6th Sep 2010, 02:27

holdmetight -

Prior to my DA42 sim, I had no multi, CSU, or G1000 time. The learning curve was steep, and they dont expect you to be perfect, they just want to gauge your ability to take instruction. You need to have an understanding of general instrument flight such as NDB/VOR intercepts using the RMI before going in. This will make all the rest a lot easier. I used this great link to practice. Its really basic, but I found it was by far the most useful -

Tim's Air Navigation Simulator (http://www.visi.com/~mim/nav/)

Smell the Coffee -

I certainly stuffed up a few questions along the way. My first interview was by far my worst performance. The questions I struggled with in stage one were not particularly focal in the rest of my interviews. There is such a broad range of questions, and the interviewers dont have a list in front of them, they simply think of them as they go, with most questions leading onto another. I cant guarantee that they dont consider your past interviews, but I didnt feel like they were.

ANT

happyguy99

6th Sep 2010, 05:43

Hi holdmetight - if you do the advanced flight grading you don't need to worry about CSU's as you will do three flights in a Grob G115 which is a low wing, 110 hp light trainer with fixed pitch. You will then do three sim sessions, presently these are done on the DA42 simulator, the instructors will give you the info you need to fly.

My flight grading experience:

Cathay Pacific opened up the Cadet Pilot Program to international applicants last year as they were not receiving a sufficient number of applicants within Hong Kong that fulfilled the minimum requirements. Since then there has likely been tens of thousands of applicants of which I was one.

I applied in 2009, was invited to attend the first stage interview end 2009, second and third stages in Feb 10, and final and fourth stage in June 10.

My experience. When I applied I had completed my CPL and Instructor Rating and was working as an instructor. Total flight time was around 300 hours.

Cathay Pacific have recognized the diverse experience of potential cadets and are willing to cater for this to a certain extent. Depending upon your experience, and of course making to flight grading, you will be invited to one of four flight grading processes.

Basic Flight Grading - for applicants with less than 15 hours previous experience, seven flights in the Grob G115 basic trainer.

Intermediate Flight Grading - for applicants with more than 30 hours experience, as above with an additional three flights in the Mudry CAP10 aerobatic aircraft.

Advanced Flight Grading - for applicants with an ICAO CPL, three flights in the Grob G115 and three sessions in the IGATE G602 flight simulator. (Presently this simulator is unserviceable and candidates are assessed in the Diamond DA42 simulator).

Advanced Entry Cadet Flight Grading - for applicants with an ICAO CPL and more than 220 hours (I think) total flight time, seven flights in a Socata Tobago TB10 focusing on general flying, instrument flying, and navigation.

I was invited to attend the Advanced Entry Cadet Flight Grading. My experience prior to flight grading. Total time around 350 hours. Obviously, this means I am only able to comment on the Advanced Entry Cadet Flight Grading, however my room-mate did the Advanced Flight Grading.

Advanced Flight Grading - my room-mate seemed to have much more time than I to enjoy the hospitality of Flight Training Adelaide. His flights were on basic aircraft handling and then basic instrument flying on the sim. Can't comment any more on this.

Advanced Entry Cadet Flight Grading - 7 flights TB10. I was given a folder of information to study which included:

- 1:250,000 and 1:500,000 VFR map of the area
- CR-3 nav computer (E6B users should learn how to use the computer to apply W/V for VFR X-country Nav tracks - I had plenty of time at FTA to sort this out, although in my experience if you hold your heading accurately on short legs at low level the W/V doesn't make much difference)
- Aerodrome plates for Parafield, Adelaide, Kadina, and Strathalbyn
- Handling notes for Tobago TB10
- Parafield Visual Pilot Guide - available online at - http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/pilots/download/parafield.pdf
- Radio procedures
- CTAF procedures (Common Traffic Aerodrome Frequency)
- Precautionary Search and Landing procedures
- Australian Day VFR syllabus

Flight one covered basic handling – S & L, C & D, turns, stalling, unusual attitudes, and a forced landing.

Flight two was circuits – normal, flapless, glide, and short-field.

Flight three was a repeat of flight one but under a hood, no stalling or forced landing.

Flight four was a basic VFR Nav with 3 legs, route roughly 180 nm.

Flight five, VFR Nav over 5 legs, included joining at an uncontrolled aerodrome and a diversion, route roughly 170 nm.

Flight six, VFR Nav over 7 leg, included joining at an uncontrolled aerodrome, diversion, arrival into and departure from an aerodrome in class C airspace, route roughly 200 nm.

Flight seven, VFR Nav – same route as flight five included joining at the same uncontrolled aerodrome, a diversion, on arriving back in the training area we then repeated everything from flight one and three, finally we repeated the circuits in flight two back at Parafield.

Candidates for the Advanced Entry Cadet Flight Grading are also expected to do the start-up, run-ups, radio calls, taxiing, departure, arrival into Parafield, and shutdown. They give you a checklist which you use as a 'to do' list. It is therefore important that you study the aerodrome plates and radio procedures.

herrtob

6th Sep 2010, 06:05

thank you very much HappyGuy,

judging by the TB10's V-NE at 165kts, your exercises 4 - 7 would take a fair bit over an hour. are all flight grading exercises more or less with such duration? I might add that if i'm going to be invited i'll only be there for basic, but it's good to know the whole picture. cheers and well done!

polair911

6th Sep 2010, 06:31

according to my previous experience on the TB-10, they cruise at about 120kt; TB-10s are not much of a glider type, and yes im sure most people would agree with me that they sink like a brick with glide speed of 86kt. Think best rate of climb is about 75kt and best angle is 65kt. X-wind was 20kt??? (please correct me)

A nice plane to fly, yet the if you're flying it during Summer, the canopy will keep you warm inside the cabin.

good luck.

PA911

jjj888

6th Sep 2010, 14:53

wow, happyguy99, that's such a detailed account of the flight grading. thanks!

anyone is going to the stage 2 & 3 on oct 5 & 6 here?

futureTP

6th Sep 2010, 16:10

Whoop whoop have an interview in London:ok: patience is a virtue guys hang in there and all the best to everyone that's applied and waiting for a reply.

Would appreciate any useful info and a heads up on the tests... been informed to expect a Interview with both Personal and Technical questions, technical multiple-choice questionnaire, reasoning test, personality assessment.

Thanks guys and good luck to all that have been invited! :D

6080 Feet

7th Sep 2010, 03:21

Hi to Nosegear, 404Titan, crwjerk and any other current Cathay pilots watching this forum... Thanks for your honesty.

I'm looking for a little guidance, I'm a C-cat with about 700 hours, possible full time charter job lined up for summer, but I stress possible. I've been reading through this for the last couple of days and I just had to ask you guys a few questions. I put my app in about 7 months ago and had forgotten about it, but I then got called up a few weeks ago for the stage 1 interview. I'm currently doing about 5 days a week instructing and maybe starting some part-time meatbombing as well.

With possible jobs in the pipeline and GA starting to rebound after the last few sh*tty years, is there any point me doing this cadetship? I mean, I understand that conditions are pretty crap when you're an SO, and going out isn't really an option, but let's face it, as a instructor I'm earning about $200NZD a week and spending more than that most of the time with absolutely no social life, my accounts just keep rebounding off of my maximum credit limit. So I'm no stranger to slumming it, and if the conditions are so bad for all SO's then surely you could flat with a few good lads, buy the beers at 711, and drown your sorrows in your tiny apartment with other guys who are in the same position as you. To be honest that sounds a bit better than living at home with the parents as I'm forced to do atm with my whopping instructors salary.

All that said, I'm not in a huge hurry to fly jets, kinda keen to enjoy some sweet GA first, trying to save for a float rating atm :p My only concern is that all the airlines seem like they're moving towards this cadetship scheme type of hiring structure. I understand Cathay have stopped hiring DESO, what about DEFO? Cos eventually I guess I'm going to have to get a jet job to pay off my student loan, and if I'm going to have to go through the cadetship type thing I would rather get it over and done with now and get the earliest seniority number I can. But if Cathay are still hiring DEFO I would rather screw around in lighties for a few more years, get some twin ATO time and then make the airline move further down the track.

If I had no experience and no options this would be a no-brainer, but I'm looking for advice based on the fact that I do have options in GA.

Help! :ugh:

Please this is directed at actual Cathay pilots who know what they're talking about, thanks:)

ps I'm single and don't want to have to cut my man parts off, are there many expat females in HK?

Pandaman

7th Sep 2010, 06:27

hi mate,and any other who are doing stage 2 and stage3 these days,...best of luck with the interviews...i am sure u guys will make it...finger X

pandaman:ok:

OZvandriver

7th Sep 2010, 13:36

Plenty of expat females! been to HK a couple of times and never had any trouble finding any....

Otherwise I am in the same boat as you...happy with my current job and I'll probably hang around for a while at least...

nike

7th Sep 2010, 15:10

6080,

I'd get some stories to tell before you join a long haul company.

futureTP

7th Sep 2010, 21:49

Hey Vish i applied last year and they have only just sent the e-mail to me hang in there hopefully they will contact you when they do the interviews in your geographic area...

Anyone else been invited to the interviews in london??

antes56

8th Sep 2010, 08:23

future TP

I am the same boat, I applied last year in july and still waiting a reply 8 ( i sent them an email,but they replied to wait until further interview will be conducted in my geo area)

i don't know what to do,and why they are calling some and other no (even if the apllied later than me) :(

Harbour Dweller

8th Sep 2010, 10:39

Hi Happyguy99,

Well done on the very detailed post to those interested / undertaking the new cadet program.

One thing you mentioned however,

Cathay Pacific opened up the Cadet Pilot Program to international applicants last year as they were not receiving a sufficient number of applicants within Hong Kong that fulfilled the minimum requirements.

That's a big call. Care to share your source of such a statement?

The real reason behind the move to international applicants is all about dollars.

More specifically, CX management's never ending drive to reduce cost's and employee contracts & conditions.

During recent talks between the Pilot body & CX management on the subject of Housing allowance, the DFO (Director of Flight Operations) main desire was to reduce expat terms & conditions. He even had it written down on his sheet of paper on the desk in front of him!!

The new international cadet scheme is aimed exactly at this. The pool for DESO was a very deep & healthy one. CX did not need to open up the doors for international cadets purely to source future pilots.

The scheme has been changed for ONE reason only, to reduce cost's & conditions for the future pilot body.

Good luck with your future goals & dreams but don't believe everything that CX management promises you. Keep your eyes open...

Cheers

&&&

8th Sep 2010, 12:03

Expat females!? How excited will they be with a kid who earns nothing and lives in a 500sq/ft appartment in Sha Tin?

If you are in a reasonable position outside CX STAY THERE. You simply cannot live on the money they are offering you. You will save nothing and probably will go backwards financially. As many, including myself, have told you, the pay and the lack of housing is appalling. I have been in HK a long time and trust me you have no future in HK on half the money everyone else is on.
There will be great demand for pilots in the years to come. Get some experience before you sit in the back of an aircraft eating the sandwiches and making the bunks. 5 years of no flying to say you work for CX for half pay?! Come on!

herrtob

8th Sep 2010, 14:18

@harbourdweller, happyguy's statement is in no way contradicting the "real reason" of yours.

we all know it's a cost-based decision. they first wanted to field enough cadets sourced completely from a pool of hk perm. residents but that didn't end well, reason being what happyguy has said, "Cathay Pacific opened up the Cadet Pilot Program to international applicants last year as they were not receiving a sufficient number of applicants within Hong Kong that fulfilled the minimum requirements." and hence, still wanting lower cost pilots with no housing etc etc, the program goes international.

so, you're right, but happyguy wasn't wrong at all, you just missed his point.

ps for anyone reading this, this is a free market and i have no problem with their program aimed to reduce costs (in fact i'm in the pool). supply and demand, you have your terms the companies have theirs, you either take it or leave it, some of us love it and put our head in.

holdmetight

9th Sep 2010, 09:36

Hey everyone, just finished Stage 3 yesterday. It has been a really intensive two days, and while I'm glad it is finally finished, the painful wait for an invitation to flight grading begins. I'd just like to share some pointers with everyone about to go through Stage 2 and 3 in the near future.

1. Be positive in ALL the exercises you do. They will try to put you off and give you stress, and it is up to you to demonstrate that you can deal with it. They want someone who will remain positive in adversity, and not just shrivel up or become defensive. If you cannot answer a question, just stay calm and tell them that you want some time to think about it. Don't reply with a quick "I don't know" and just let it go - be proactive and try to suggest a solution based on judgement and logical reasoning.

2. Show your aptitude at teamwork. Personality is a VERY important thing they consider, and they want people who are good at working with others. The group exercise and flight planning exercise are used to gauge your ability in this area. Make sure you respect others and listen to them when it is their turn to speak, and also make yourself heard as well. Make suggestions and try to refrain from being a control freak (if you are one).

3. Show your enthusiasm. Think about all the study you have done in the past few months, and remember that the interview is the very moment to let them know how much effort you have dedicated into trying to score this job. Sit up straight, look them in the eye, speak loudly and confidently. I have the impression that Cathay likes people who are confident and know what they are talking about (or at least look like it).

4. Don't be afraid of making mistakes. I know this kind of coincides with my previous point of being positive, but I'd like to emphasize this once again. Somehow people are afraid of making mistakes, and are therefore unwilling to talk about things they don't fully understand, or become uneasy after making an error. DON'T be scared of that, accept it is only normal. They will question you if you present an erroneous answer, so you need to keep calm and promptly re-think everything through. Don't dwell on mistakes you have made, they are not looking for someone who is perfect, but someone who can recognize mistakes, correct them and move on to become a better pilot through such experience.

Hope these hints are useful for other prospective candidates. I'm happy to share more of my experiences if that's what anyone would like. I was asked a bucket-load of questions during my Stage 2 and 3 interviews, as such I really cannot remember everything that was asked. I'll try to compile them and I will post them at a later date. Good luck to everyone else who has upcoming tests, and well done to everyone who have finally finished Stage 3.

I'd like to share a few words with those who unfortunately could not pass any particular stage in the selection. During my management interview, I had the opportunity to ask the management pilots several questions. One of my questions was what they thought was important for young, aspiring cadets like myself. The management captain looked me in the eye, and told me "Never give up on what you want to do." So A, E and J, if you are reading this, hope you guys will bounce back from today and eventually return as stronger candidates.:ok:

holdmetight

9th Sep 2010, 09:40

Thanks for your detailed post on flight grading. Hopefully I will get to make use of the information you have kindly provided.

404 Titan

9th Sep 2010, 11:28

herrtob

ps for anyone reading this, this is a free market and i have no problem with their program aimed to reduce costs (in fact i'm in the pool). supply and demand, you have your terms the companies have theirs, you either take it or leave it, some of us love it and put our head in.

The only problem with that is that the company is now attacking existing CX pilots T&C regarding housing.

Also unknown to you or any other international cadet is from the latest round of negotiations between the AOA and the company regarding housing for cadets it was made very clear by the company that they have absolutely no intention of paying any housing to any international cadet or direct entry pilots employed since the introduction of the “Racial Discrimination Ordinance” by the Hong Kong SAR government in 2009. The company wasn’t even forthcoming with the pay scales the new international cadets will be on when they start to arrive in Hong Kong at the end of this year after completing their 62 week training course in Adelaide. I can just imagine the faces of these cadets when they arrive in Hong Kong and are told that they are now on “C” scale salaries rather than the “B” scale they were promised. Not even I thought the company would stoop to such lows but unfortunately it would appear that is exactly what the company is planning. No housing and now possibly “C” scales salaries. If some of you thought it would be tight with no housing, it has possibly just got even tighter.

Before anyone says I am talking BS here are a couple of the extracts from the AOA newsletter on the 6th Sept 2010:

The Company has already made the first moves to expand the CEP program. We have written to the Company asking for information on the terms and conditions that these pilots will be placed on when they finish their training. We are still awaiting a reply.

Make no mistake, management is on course to introduce C Scale by expanding the CEP program and reducing the terms of future DEPs. The Association must be determined in its support of our CEPs and future DEPs.

If we permit the Company to reduce the terms of new recruits, current DEPs will quickly become the “A scale” of tomorrow.

Back in 1999 management forced "A" scale pilots to take a substantial pay cut or face losing their jobs.

So my question to you is what will you do when you are here and the company forces you to accept "D" or "E" scales? Afterall the company has a history of doing this exact thing.

herrtob

9th Sep 2010, 13:35

first let me (and i'm sure majority of you would join me to) thank holdmetight for the details he's provided, would really benefit us HEAPS!!!

and Titan, those are some very intriguing information there and i will not doubt its validity, nor am i in the position to, anyway.

my original post only seek to explore the seemingly conflicting views between dweller and happyguy, which are actually not mutually exclusive. and obviously i'm not in the company and wouldn't know a thing of what you said.

so building from what you gave us, basically cadets has no guarantee of employment and terms of employment at all? that's really some changeable conditions that we don't like. however as for the more established pprune members like yourself, the union would do something about it right?

404 Titan

9th Sep 2010, 14:31

herrtob

Under Hong Kong industrial laws there is almost nothing the AOA can do to force the companies arm. Any form of unsanctioned industrial action (industrial action which isn’t approved by your employer) exposes those that participate being sued by the company and possibly having their visas cancelled by the Hong Kong SAR government. All we can do is to try and negotiate which in the past has had very limited success.

Harbour Dweller

10th Sep 2010, 01:03

herrtob,

I understand what you are trying to say however you are also missing what I am saying.

Traditionally the only reason CX had a cadet scheme was to nurture a sense of goodwill within the local Hong Kong community, nothing more. Basically, a points winning scheme to make CX look good in the eyes of locals. It provided the few locals interested in flying a chance of a career.

The cadet scheme was never really intended to be a source of pilot recruitment for the majority of CX requirements. That is why we had the DESO program & later the DEFO opportunity. Pilot's were recruited on full expat terms & conditions and this in return helped protect all CX pilots future's.

All CX management is doing is lowering the bar further by opening the cadet scheme to international applicants.

404 Titan has provided you with some very important insight into CX's motives. Don't underestimate what they are trying to achieve.

ps for anyone reading this, this is a free market and i have no problem with their program aimed to reduce costs (in fact i'm in the pool). supply and demand, you have your terms the companies have theirs, you either take it or leave it, some of us love it and put our head in. Remember these words in 10 years to come.

When you are sitting in that nice shiny jet, middle of the night, tired and 1000's of miles away from your family all just to pay off the mountain of debt you have built up living in one of the world's most expensive cities you will regret what you have just said.

Finally, I am not saying don't chase your goals of flying professionally. By all means go for it.

Just be careful as to what you are really getting yourself into.

holdmetight

11th Sep 2010, 12:54

As promised. Here are most of the questions I was asked, unfortunately I don't remember everything they asked as there was too much. The numbers in the calculation questions were also made up, for the same reason, but you should get the big picture. Hope this helps, and feel free to make comments or ask more questions. I will answer if I can. For reference, I am a PPL holder with single-engine piston time only, all VFR.

Stage 2 Personal
1.Tell us how your life has been recently.
2.What tasks does your present job involve?
3.Why did you choose to study in Australia?
4.What made you choose your degree?
5.Why didn’t you do incorporate your flying with your degree?
6.How did you become interested in becoming a pilot?
7.Give me three reasons why you want to be a pilot.
8.What did you do during your airline internship?
9.When did you start flying?
10.Where did you do your flying?
11.How did you choose your flying school?
12.You only went solo after x hours. Why is that? What is the average nowadays, as you know it?
13.What does a Second Officer do?
14.If given a choice of fleet upon graduation, which fleet would you like to join? Why?
15.Tell me about FTA.
16.How many hours will you have when you graduate from cadet training?
17.If you turn up for a flight one day, and you smell alcohol in the captain’s breath, what do you do?
18.If your flight plan indicates a climb into an altitude where significant turbulence has been reported, and the commander wants to continue with the plan, what do you do?
19.If Cathay does not accept you this time, what will you do?
20.Did you apply for Dragonair? Which stage did you fail, and what part of that stage made you fail?
21.Why don’t you want to take up a cadetship with the airline you did your internship with?
22.If Cathay will never accept you, would you be willing to fly with an Australian airline?

Stage 2 Technical
1.What is fly-by-wire?
2.How does fly-by-wire operate?
3.Why do you prefer the B777 over the Airbus?
4.What differences are there between Boeings and Airbuses, in terms of setting engine thrust?
5.What is FLEX thrust, why do we use it?
6.What is the principle behind FLEX thrust?
7.How do we determine the temperature behind setting FLEX thrust?
8.What are the factors that would determine how much thrust we use on take-off?
9.What are the differences between a derated take-off and a FLEX take-off?
10.What is VMCG?
11.What is VMCA?
12.What is V1?
13.What is V2?
14.List these four speeds in correct order.
15.Why does an Airbus have trim tanks?
16.What are the differences between the leading edge and trailing edge high-lift devices?
17.Why do we need flaps? What do they do?
18.Draw me a schematic of a hydraulic system.
19.How does an Airbus stop upon landing?
20.Does the nosewheel have brakes?
21.How does an anti-skid braking system work?
22.If we are at 3000’ and the QNH is 990, what is the pressure altitude?
23.If we are flying at 540kt at FL360 with 100nm to go before waypoint A, and we need to reach FL390 by waypoint A, and our climb rate is 1000fpm, when is the latest before waypoint A that we need to start our climb?
24.Given our answer in the previous question, do we immediately climb after receiving instructions from ATC or do we wait until 27nm before waypoint A before commencing climb? Why?
25.Provide reciprocal headings for a series of given headings.
26.If our heading is 360 and there is a wind blowing from 090, can we expect to arrive at our next waypoint at the same time, or at a different time?
27.How many degrees of bank do you fly when you do a steep turn?
28.How many G’s do you pull when you do a 60 degree steep turn?
29.What is load factor?
30.What is the load factor in a 45 degree AOB turn?
31. (Points to winglets) What are these and how do they work?

Stage 3 Personal
1.Tell us about your job.
2.What do you like to do in your spare time?
3.How often do you swim?
4.How did university foundation year assist your study in university?
5.Tell me what you know about Cathay Pacific.
6.Name a major shareholder in our company.
7.In what other airlines does this shareholder also have a stake in?
8.Which aircraft did Cathay just place an order for? How many?
9.What types of variants does Airbus offer for the A350?
10.What are the differences between these variants?
11. Give me three reasons why you became interested in the aviation industry.
12. How did you hear about the cadet pilot program?
13. Do you know anyone who is currently or was a Cathay cadet? Who and how did you know him/her?

Stage 3 Technical
1.Which aircraft did you fly?
2.Tell me about the engine on your aircraft.
3.Tell me about the fuel system on your aircraft.
4.(Points to a model on the table) Can you tell me what aircraft this is?
5.How can you tell a B777 from an A330 purely from visual cues?
6.Tell me about the differences in the wing designs of the B777 and an A330.
7.During high speed flight, are the ailerons used or locked in?
8.Why does the Airbus have trim tanks?
9.What engines does the B777-300ER have?
10.What does the -115 on the engine name mean?
11.If we are flying at FL330 and we need to descend to FL260, with a GS of 480kts and descent rate of 500fpm, how long will our descent take? How far will we fly during the descent?

Pandaman

11th Sep 2010, 13:05

Thanks for typing all these questions here mate.

first,a great congratz for making it to stage 3.:D

did they tell you how long they will inform you to go flight grading?

best of luck

pandaman:ok:

holdmetight

11th Sep 2010, 13:07

did they tell you how long they will inform you to go flight grading?

Around 1-2 weeks. Painful!

Malov

11th Sep 2010, 14:08

"When you are sitting in that nice shiny jet, middle of the night, tired and 1000's of miles away from your family all just to pay off the mountain of debt you have built up living in one of the world's most expensive cities you will regret what you have just said."

Either way, as I see it - pilots today seem to end up with huge debt anyway. Climbing the latter in Cathay seems as just a good idea as climbing the latter by bying your way in, working your ass off for Ryanair e.g.

How can pilots today "win" do you feel?

holdmetight

11th Sep 2010, 16:00

I have an aviation degree but the subject matter I studied has nothing whatsoever to do with flying. I have not done my CPL or ATPL subjects either, so in fact there were a lot of questions I could not answer. The interviewers would give suggestions and hints every now and then, so in the end I was able to end up with simplistic but accurate answers.

I think they are not really concerned at how much knowledge you currently possess, but whether you have the attitude and motivation required to succeed as a cadet pilot. As such you can count on them to ask you questions that are out of your level, because they want to know how you react when outside your "comfort zone". They are also interested in seeing if you possess a decent sense of logic and problem-solving ability.

millonario

12th Sep 2010, 06:33

I was just wondering if anyone knows the color testing process for the Cathay Pacific cadetship?

I hold an Australian class 1 medical with no restrictions, however in my initial medical I was shown a number of pictures with numbers (I think it is called Ishihara by what I read on the forums) and I got 2 of them wrong. The DAME told me that I was color safe for GA, but that I might have problems getting into the airlines as their testing is more rigorous.

I currently hold an Australian CPL + MECIR with 200 hours, and not once did I have any problems associated with color decoding (day/night ops). I'm planning on applying for the Cathay cadetship, but I'm not sure if I meet their color vision requirements. Could someone please share some info with me? Thanks.

holdmetight

12th Sep 2010, 07:28

The Cathay medical staff will do a Ishihara colour-blindness test with you, and if you pass that will be the end of it. I'm not quite sure what they would do if you happen to get the questions wrong.

Having said that, it is quite possible that Cathay and the CAD have different requirements towards candidates' health and medical history. While you can find out about the CAD requirements online (I was told that the CAD requirements for an initial issue Class 1 medical were very similar to JAA, if not entirely identical), it would be much harder for you to have an idea of what Cathay wants. I'd suggest you apply for the cadetship regardless. You never know until you try.

millonario

12th Sep 2010, 14:53

Thanks for the info. So you were only required to do the Ishihara test right? I guess I should be fine then considering I never really had a problem. It's always the small things that make you worry a bit.

By the way, when Cathay does you medical, wouldn't that automatically give you a HKCAD class 1, or do you have to get that done separately?

Congratulations on getting to stage 3 and let us know how you go!

Cheers.

holdmetight

12th Sep 2010, 15:10

Yes I only did the Ishihara Test for colour-blindness.

However, because my eyes have a substantial amount of myopia, the medical staff at Cathay want me to obtain a detailed report from an opthamologist (after passing flight grading), and my being offered a cadetship will depend on what the doctor says. Applying the same logic, if CX manages to detect a slight problem with your colour perception during your medical, they might let you continue to flight grading, but after grading you will probably need to visit an eye doctor for a report. Then depending on the situation, they would then decide whether or not to offer you the cadetship.

As far as I know, prospective cadets only do one medical examination throughout the selection process. I have the feeling that the Cathay medical exam is more stringent than the normal CAD Class 1 medical check-up. As such, passing the CX medical would mean that not only do you meet company standards, you also meet CAD standards as well.

holdmetight

12th Sep 2010, 15:47

they will ask for further investigations if there is anything they are worried about?

Affirmative.

Dr. CY did my medical as well, very good doctor, even gave me a few hints on interview techniques! I have heard that they instantly terminate medical exams if they find things that are unacceptable and cannot be rectified. Having said that, if you passed the entire medical check-up, I would think you have a good chance of passing the Cathay medical altogether.

SW1

12th Sep 2010, 15:53

Thanks HMT, thats good to hear! Had my Management interview first so no interview tips from the doctor for me, haha. Was seriously impressed with Hong Kong and just hope I can make it through to flight grading and ultimately, the cadetship

jjj888

13th Sep 2010, 00:36

i was asked to get an eye report before stage 2 and after the ICAO assessement. so i guess they can ask you to do whatever test in whatever schedule. :hmm:

holdmetight

13th Sep 2010, 03:28

jjj888

Which opthamologist did you go to, and how much did it cost? Does Cathay allow you to choose or did you have to go to a specific one?

irok

My understanding is that you fly on any B777-operated route that requires an S/O to legally extend the maximum flight duty time. Given that, you will probably spend most of your time on the -300ER but may also fly the -200 and -300 on occasions. I have seen -400 S/Os fly on cargo routes, though I am not sure if this happens frequently.

bonbon512

13th Sep 2010, 05:10

Ya, I had to get a test done by the opthalmologist right after stage 1. CX never specified which doctor I needed to go to, but then again, I did it overseas.

Harbour Dweller

13th Sep 2010, 05:30

irok,

if you are selected as a S/O on the 777 fleet, do you fly the -200, -300 and the -300er or do you only fly the one variant?

And likewise with the 747 fleet, do you fly all variants including cargo?

holdmetight is correct.

My understanding is that you fly on any B777-operated route that requires an S/O to legally extend the maximum flight duty time. Given that, you will probably spend most of your time on the -300ER but may also fly the -200 and -300 on occasions. I have seen -400 S/Os fly on cargo routes

millonario

13th Sep 2010, 09:53

HMT,

Thanks for the info. I am filling in my application now and see how it goes. Will keep you all updated when I hear something.

jjj888

13th Sep 2010, 16:27

holdmetight

any qualified ophthalmologist is fine for the eye report. i did it in hk. if you want the name and details, you can PM me.

cheers

futureTP

13th Sep 2010, 19:44

Hey guys,

I've been trying to read my way thorugh the thread and just want to say thanks to everyone HMT, happyguy and others can't remember all the names... a lot of helpful info!

Trying to get ready for mine and was wondering if any of you were asked to draw and explain things out of the JKI booklet other then engine layout's... any info is much appreciated!

Thanks...
FTP

Smell the Coffee

13th Sep 2010, 23:13

Not a CX video, but nonetheless a very nice little montage put together by Air France (Pilots yesterday and today).

Air France - Corporate : Pilots, yesterday and today (http://corporate.airfrance.com/en/press/media-library/videos/air-frances-75th-anniversary/pilots-yesterday-and-today/)

holdmetight

14th Sep 2010, 03:12

jjj888

Thanks! Just fired you a PM, check it out. :ok:

futureTP

any of you were asked to draw and explain things out of the JKI booklet other then engine layout'

Yes, I had to draw a hydraulic system. They could well ask you to draw anything so make sure you understand how things work. I remember in my first application 2 years ago, I had to draw longitude and latitude, lift production on a wing, and an altimeter. If they give you the chance to draw and explain, jump at it! A picture goes a long way into discussing the intricacies of aircraft instrumentation or aviation-related phenomena. Hope this helps.

monkeybiz

14th Sep 2010, 10:53

cp 40/41 anyone?

SW1

14th Sep 2010, 10:58

Still waiting for my Stage 3 results monkeybiz:confused: Any chance you know how long it takes to get back to us about Flight grading? When does your course start? Id be looking at being on the short course as I have the required hours

futureTP

14th Sep 2010, 12:03

Thanks for the info:ok:... better practise drawing! It never was my strong point in school always drew things that made no resemblance to what I was meant to be drawing lol.. any news on your interview? Good luck!

Smell the Coffee

14th Sep 2010, 19:54

futureTP, I doubt you will be asked to draw anything complicated ... there just isn't enough time for that.

Most of the relevant diagrams inside the JKI booklet are simple to draw. If you still don't understand a concept, google is your best friend (or look at your PPL books if you have them).

Keep it simple.

p.s. I was crap at art but still managed to draw a pretty decent jet engine

monkeybiz

15th Sep 2010, 05:58

SW1,

Good luck with your stage three results! We found out about 9-10 days after we left from flight grading. After stage three, it took about 3 weeks, but I have heard of much shorter periods. Hope its good news for you.

ANT

aviator1988

15th Sep 2010, 07:51

Hey SW1! :ok:

In the near future I will do my 2 Stage and 3 Stage..
What do you think about the math test?
Have you had your ICAO Test?

Thank you in advance!

Greetings
:O

SW1

15th Sep 2010, 08:28

Hi,

The maths test is ok, you wont finish it in time though! As stated before, some questions are designed to waste your time, so swallow your pride and move on to the easier questions to build up your score.

The ICAO test, if fine, just listen to the recordings carefully and expalin what was said. You will only be allowed to hear it once, so listen. its nothing to worry about:ok:

boquera

15th Sep 2010, 15:20

is there anybody on on here with no flying experience that has had their initial interview?
how tough did you find the technical questions-just wondering as im trying to gauge how much extra reading around the information booklet i need to do in prep ( I have done some but i don't want to overload on too much detail which may not be necessary).

have to say by the way that i wasn't expecting all that info for some reason, i first looked at it and thought :{ , this is going to be a long month!!!! (prob as the last interview i had was at FTE where all they really asked you to know was a certain level of maths)

cheers for any replies (good ones that is!)

G-HALE

15th Sep 2010, 18:32

Applied in February 2010. Have not been called as yet for selection!
Anyone know when they will be in London next?

SW1

15th Sep 2010, 18:36

Next month apparently....

herrtob

16th Sep 2010, 06:02

HMT, not sure if you have done your DCA153OPH yet, if you still need an ophthalmologist pm me, mine was pretty nice.

boquera, i have zero hours. and for me, as i can't speak for others, the JKI booklet is absolutely insufficient, i have read "ace the tech pilot interview"(way over 0-hr level), FAA "pilot tech knowledge" , "meteorology for pilots" and a few others. i believe we should equip ourselves with as much as possible.

Jay_solo

16th Sep 2010, 10:12

Can anyone confirm if they will be in London for assessment days before the year is out?

0lancer0

17th Sep 2010, 00:30

how much extra reading around the information booklet i need to do in prep ( I have done some but i don't want to overload on too much detail which may not be necessary).

have to say by the way that i wasn't expecting all that info for some reason, i first looked at it and thought http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/boohoo.gif , this is going to be a long month!!!! (prob as the last interview i had was at FTE where all they really asked you to know was a certain level of maths)

cheers for any replies (good ones that is!)

Here is a REAL reply for you. I hate to ruin this thread for others but dude YOU HAVE NO CHANCE!!! := Even if you do pass all the stages YOU WILL FAIL the training!!! :eek:

Are you kidding me? You do not want to go in too much detail? :{ You didn't expect so much info/reading? :{ You think this is on the same level as FTE? :confused:

Please re-evaluate your reasons and mental capacity for becoming a pilot. :ugh: Spaces are limited for people who actually have a passion for aviation and will put in the EXTRA work required to walk this path. :ok:

Cheers. I believe this was a good reply. It had many smilies :)

boquera

17th Sep 2010, 13:26

not ruthless aztec, a bit of an over reaction i think lancer,

what i was asking (and what was replied to by herrtob) was is the booklet enough information? or is much extra research is needed- and how much? i don't know how much depth they require for the initial interview for people without background or hours.

it is possible to overload on too much unnecessary detail when researching\revising that won't actually benefit the person and that is what i was getting at. I am limited on the time i have available to read and research on this due to having a job

i mentioned FTE as that is my previous experience at the interview stage, they wanted the applicant to know maths whereas CX want people to know a lot more. I never said it was on the same level as FTE and neither did i expect it to be considering what they are offering.

A lot of this stuff i have never looked at before so it was all a bit wow at first but i've had chance to look at most of it now and it doesn't seem that bad, however i am not stupid so i know that they will want extra to what they provide[they even say so on page one!!!].

how can you tell how much passion a person has on a subject by one post on a forum? as for a "real reply"-there was nothing helpful whatsoever to anybody on there. its people like yourself who make forums like these seem to be full of idiots who have nothing better to do then fill up their days with waiting for somebody to have a go at.

thanks herrtob, i have ordered one of the books you mention and already own mechanics of flight by kermode which unless im mistaken (and apologies if i am), the JKI booklet seems to have used a couple of pictures from

TheFutureAwaits

17th Sep 2010, 15:17

Hello there. I have just been invited to attend the 1st interview stage so the technical cramming must begin! But I don't seem to have received the JKI book. Would it be possible to send me please ? :)

0lancer0

17th Sep 2010, 15:25

was the booklet enough information? you answered it yourself.. NO! it says so in the second paragraph!
HINT: for the first stage though.. it is sufficient.

dude ok look.. all im trying to say is that you have to be a lot more independent and use a lot more common sense! i have helped ppl on here who ask legit questions.. i have disregarded all those that lack common sense or whom need to be spoon fed.. until now.. so here it is..

they are not going to ask anyone who doesnt have any experience about ndbs.. ils approaches.. coffin corners.. or any CPL/ATPL type questions. with no experience you should be aiming to prepare yourself at the ppl level. pick up a book called From the Ground Up. It contains all the info you would need to pass your ppl in can/us. it is a great supplement to the JKI. If you already own (I assume you have read) Mechanics of Flight.. then you have already read half of the JKI in depth!

(soooo back to my rant) you asked your questions even BEFORE you opened the booklet! from the way you wrote your post.. it just seemed to me like it was a chore for you to "dig out more information that is not covered in the book" .. i dont understand why any extra research is such a burden and that to me why i believe(d) that you have a lack of passion for aviation. having a job is definately not an excuse. you must have had time to write a reply to me.. that time could have been put to better use if you are on such a strict schedule.. im just trying to make u see the light. it is hard work that must be put in and if you yearn for it enough.. you WILL get there.. especially for those who have little or no experience.. as they are becoming far and few with the acceptance of international cadets.

Hope this post lets you know where I'm coming from, clears up some things for you and encourages you and the rest to aim higher. I take back the nasty first line that I wrote in my original post. Study like you have never studied before and use common sense on what areas are going to be weighed most heavily on. *cough* theory of flight*cough* Anticipate and be ahead.

As for me.. im not a bad guy.. im the little to none flying experience idiot who has nothing better to do to fill up my days with dreaming to become an airline pilot because all I am doing is waiting for my course start date.
:ok:
Good Luck!

boquera

17th Sep 2010, 15:47

now that was a better reply, thank you. the reply was done in my lunch break and this one is because i am almost finished-when at home i have a couple of hours in the evening and the one weekend i have had i read the jki pretty much all day.

its not a want to be spoon fed, its just a little heads up i was after and apologies if the message was badly written. thanks for the rep.

Jet777Boy

17th Sep 2010, 15:50

Well, after nearly a year of waiting, I have been invited to the 1st stage interview in Hong Kong in October.

Most of my questions have already been answered via this massive thread. A big thank you to all of you! But I still have two questions without answers.

1. The interview is scheduled for 0900-1700. By experience, does it usually end earlier than 1700? How far (time wise) is the interview location from the airport?

2. What happen if I sent them a reply that I am attending and one or two weeks before the interview, I change my mind? Do I have to wait 12 more months or do they keep my name for the next available interview?

Thanks!

Jet777Boy

AsL402

17th Sep 2010, 16:50

it is possible to overload on too much unnecessary detail when researching\revising that won't actually benefit the person and that is what i was getting at. I am limited on the time i have available to read and research on this due to having a job

It's not possible to overload on too much detail. That's what they did during my Stage 2 interview, they'll find topics one by one, and go into details as far as you can answer. If you are not able to answer, they'll give you clues to help you derive the correct answer. After that's done, they'll do the same thing in another topic.

A good strategy that might help you, and I think someone else has mentioned before, is to study all the subjects covered in the JKI booklet in depth, with the aid from outside sources. But pick a subject that you will study extra detail in. During the interview, they will probably ask you which subject you liked the most from the JKI booklet. That will be the subject that they will ask you first and most likely go into most detail in. Also, if you say you like the 747-400 the most, make sure you know about that plane. They will ask you!

I would say, don't treat the JKI booklet as study material but treat it as a study guide. See each chapter of it as an introduction to what you need to know. With that, explore into those subjects.

Hope this helps!

monkeybiz

17th Sep 2010, 23:39

Guys in response to this conversation about depth of research I have to say something. I got the cadetship, and I only had 40-50 hours and no licences. I studied consistently through every free hour i had. The JKI booklet covers probably 10% of what I was asked about in my interviews. You need to know WAAY more. have a look through the thread. Im talking significantly more

ANT

holdmetight

18th Sep 2010, 11:10

Has anyone out there heard back from stage 3 in HK last week?

Yeah on Thursday I got an e-mail telling me to do an eye assessment conducted by an opthamologist. Just finished that and sent off the report, and hopefully it is the last thing standing between flight grading and myself.

By the way, just in case anyone else needs to get their eyes checked as well - the CAD form that you need to have the opthamologist fill out is in the link below. Cathay usually sends you a blank form along with the notification e-mail, but in case you don't get one, here is the link.

http://www.cad.gov.hk/application/DCA%20153%20(Oph).pdf

:cool:

SW1

18th Sep 2010, 13:30

Hi CatalinaSpitfire,

I had my stage 3 on Friday 10th September. Like HMT I has an email on Thursday requesting a follow medical for a minor issue, should have the results by early next week. What day were you on? PM if you like. Looks like no-one had had any notifications of yes or no results, only a few medical follow up letters:(

SW1

18th Sep 2010, 15:42

Did you have your stage 3 on Thursday the 9th? If so, then we definetly met in the waiting area. Im not sure if they will contact everyone at the same time or start offering places for Flight grading to healthy applicants first, I would think so.

Smell the Coffee

18th Sep 2010, 17:56

Guys through to Stage 2/3/4 - how long did CX take to get back to you after Stage 1, and how much 'warning' did they give you of Stage 2?

thanks

SW1

18th Sep 2010, 17:57

About 7 weeks in total, 2 weeks to recieve the intial call for interview in Hong kong, another 10 days to receive your tickets then arrive in HK 7 weeks from when you first sat Stage 1.

Hope that makes sense?

Smell the Coffee

18th Sep 2010, 18:09

If I understand you correctly, about 2 weeks to get a yes/no after S1, then about a month or so to prepare?

thanks by the way

p.s. can you remember whether they emailed or phoned you after S1? Basic questions, but the more complex ones have all been answered so well!

SW1

18th Sep 2010, 18:38

You will get a phone call if you are selected for stage 2 or email if rejected/reapply in 12 months category. The questions already mentioned above cover the majority of stuff mentioned in the interview, it DOES depend on what experience you have, so learn the basics, and that means more than the JKI booklet. Company knowledge and key names help a bit:ok:

Michelle.C

18th Sep 2010, 19:01

Hey guys! Just wished to let you know they can contact you via email if you're shorlisted for Stage 2 too. I got the email yesterday & was told that I'll be informed of my Stage 2 date soon. I will be burying my head in the books once again but am never happier to be doing that :) All the best to those waiting to hear back from Stage 3! Would appreciate any advice you can offer bout Stage 2 & 3.

Michelle.C

18th Sep 2010, 19:06

CX might also email if you're shortlisted for Stage 2. I got my email 2 days ago & am informed that I'll get a Stage 2 date soon. Earlier informed during Stage 1 that it would be around mid-end Nov. All the best to those who are waiting to hear back from Stage 3! Would appreciate any addtional tips/ advice that you can offer for Stage 2 & 3. Thanks

Smell the Coffee

18th Sep 2010, 19:10

Thanks SW1, believe me I'm getting stuck into all the relevant books!

Thanks again to all who have contributed to this informative and illuminating thread - one of the better ones on this website.

ozskygirl

19th Sep 2010, 00:56

Hey all :p

Have been reading through this thread and it is of great help, so much juicy info!

Two questions:

Any Aussies out there who have applied recently? How long did it take for you to score an initial interview? Is it safe to assume you have a bit of time up your sleeve, or should you be financially and mentally ready to jump straight into it as soon as you apply?

Also, I am a bit confused as to what is involved in the first interview. As far as I can see it is basic technical questions and personal questions (and where do I get this JKI booklet from, can't find it anywhere)? When people say Stage 1 are they referring to their first interview, or the stage after getting through the first interview?

It's all very exciting. Thanks heaps in advance for your friendly input :) ozskygirl

BLOCKED

19th Sep 2010, 07:29

HK is where you will be living for the next 10 years or so, so make sure you know what you are getting into. No airline (or very few) will consider S/O time....so you will be in HK for a long time, paying your OWN rent. A lot can change in 10 years, you may want a family, bigger living space etc, etc.

Make your decision with your eyes WIDE open, consider every possibility before you sign on the dotted line.

HK rentals: Hong Kong property & real estate - find Hong Kong apartments, flats, accommodation- Square-Foot (http://www.squarefoot.com.hk/)

Its your decision, but you can't say you haven't been warned.

superbkriz

19th Sep 2010, 08:13

Hey all,

I am wondering what is the aptitude test that I am going to do in stage 2? I have done the wombat in stage 1 so it would be great if anyone is kind enough to provide me with some info

Thx!

holdmetight

19th Sep 2010, 08:52

ozskygirl

Stage 1 is the first round of tests and interviews you will do during the selection process. The schedule can vary with individual candidates, but from observation most people seem to do an interview, the Job Knowledge Test, the Wombat Test, an IQ test and a personality test. The JKI booklet is a pdf that they send you via e-mail, once you have confirmed your attendance at Stage 1. The booklet has very basic information on various ground school topics, and extra reading is required to answer some questions in the JK Test.

superbkriz

Here is a very detailed and accurate description of the aptitude test you will do in Stage 2. It was taken from the blog of someone who did the cadet course years back, but rest assured the test is still the same. Hope this helps.

Aptitute Test: There are different parts in the Aptitute Test.

a) First part of the test, there are two short parallel lines with a dot in between. The two parallel lines will move left and right at varing speed and distance and you are suppose to use the joy-stick to move to dot and keep the dot as close to the lines as possible. This test will gets more difficult when your scores get higher and if you are not keeping up, your score will drop. You get 3 tries to get an average score.

b) In the second test, it is pretty much the same thing but with a twist. Instead of having the computer increasing you score and difficulty, you are suppose to press the green button to increase your score and thus increase your difficulty. And if things get too hard and it is out of control, you are suppose to press the red button to reduce your score and difficulty. If you did not press the red button, you will automatically lose score onces things get out of control. So it is quite hard as you try to get maximum points while keeping things under control. Again, you get 3 tries to get an average score.

c) In this test, you are suppose to bring this aircraft to this point in the glide path. You are suppose to align the plane with the runway and bring it down to 50 feet from touch down at the same time reduce the speed to 100km/h. In this test, you use your joy-stick and the red and green button for throttle control. You will get points according to the speed of your approach (you are suppose to keep your speed as fast as possible before you reach 50 feet as you get higher points for a faster average approach speed), your angle of alignment. You will get 1 test try and 5 real tries.

d) Quick Subtraction, you will need to do 50 quick subtaction questions. All you need to do is to confirm the answer is right or wrong. You will get points for your speed and accuracy.

e) In this test, you are going to use the rudder paddle and your joy-stick to try to keep this cross within this box. The computer will try to move the cross away from the box to simulate wind. It is an interesting test. You will get points for the horizontal and vertical errors. You get 3 tries.

f) Shoot the bandit. This test use the red and green button. You will be shown two aircraft with two different wing span, the one with the longer wing span is the bad guy, the one with the shorter span is the good guy. Then the computer will randomly pop up planes with different wing span on the screen and you get 1.5 seconds to decide to press the green to shot or red to stop. If you did not decided within 1.5 seconds, the computer will automatically shot it down. You will do this for a total of 3 times and each time there will be 50 planes to decide which to shoot or not, the different in the wing span size get smaller on each time. In the last try, you can barely tell the difference. You will be score for your reaction time and accuracy.

Assad Spaceship2

19th Sep 2010, 13:26

Dear Friends,

I have been invited for Stage 1 Interview in Hong Kong, mid-October.

To those of you who might be patiently waiting for a reply from HR, kindly note that I sent in my application in March, recieved a first reply in July and the invitation came in last week.

Should you have any accomodation suggestions, kindly let me know. Headlands said they catered for CX staff only and Novotel and Regal Hotel seem a bit pricey for me.
Any info you want to share is most welcome. Cheers!

Smell the Coffee

19th Sep 2010, 13:34

Assad, it's up to you regarding accommodation.

The airport hotels (Regal/Marriott/Novotel) etc. are pricey because they are convenient. It's the same at most cities around the world.

I actually stayed on HK Island - there is more choice and the rates can be cheaper. I just picked one close to an MTR station, and from there took the Airport Express. I left plenty of time and it turned out I was first to arrive.

I guess it's a good way of getting acquainted with HK's public transport system. You never know, you might need to get used to it ... :}

dagger19

19th Sep 2010, 16:06

Assad Spaceship2 (http://www.pprune.org/members/209688-assad-spaceship2):
what was the reply you receive in july?

Benj1

19th Sep 2010, 16:40

Firstly, congrats to the new wave of applicants that have been invited to their stage 1 interviews. I myself have gotten through all the stages with almost zero hours.

As a guide to what to expect and how much to study for STAGE 1, here are my 2 cents from a zero hour applicant.

The JKI would be your first source of information, study it till its as familiar as the back of your hand. As mentioned its insufficient for your interviews, so you'll have to supplement it.

Book I found useful was "How to Ace a Technical Pilot's Interview". However from a zero hour point of view, quite afew of the concepts seemed quite foreign as well as it having close to 1000 qns?.. so use the JKI as a guide to help you narrow down to topics of interests. However, some of the answers are sometimes overly brief and therefore, supplement it further with other texts you can get your hands on or off the internet.

Study smart as well as hard.. Although this is a big opportunity and everyone that is going SHOULD study and mug as hard... Do it wisely as well... I narrowed down questions that are easy to ask verbally in an interview environment and worked on those..
You can find alot of common questions asked from this thread... Such as winglets, principles of flights, GPWS, flaps, slats.. etc etc.

Flying the Big Jets was another book I found that was a good introduction as it delivered concepts easily and was very enjoyable to read during my free time.

Be overprepared rather then under.

Broadly you should:
Study the JKI.
Supplement JKI with additional text.
Study about FTA
Study about Cathay's fleet and senior management.
Study about VHHH and YPPF

Once again, this is for a zero hour applicant, if you're a PPL/CPL holder, the expectations would be very much higher.

Best of luck.:ok:

Assad Spaceship2

19th Sep 2010, 17:38

Reply was from HR, acknowlegding my interest in the programme and inviting me to complete the on-line application.

Assad Spaceship2

20th Sep 2010, 15:32

Yes I had put HK as 2nd pref.

Assad Spaceship2

20th Sep 2010, 15:35

Thanks for all the info.
Please clarify on Study about FTA?

SW1

20th Sep 2010, 16:23

Get on Flight Training Adelaides website and know about where they are based, what aircraft they have? Thye will ask you this as you will potentially be spending 60 weeks of your life there training on those particular aircraft they have.

Assad Spaceship2

20th Sep 2010, 20:46

Thanks for the info SW1.
I might be repeating what might already been said before, but nevertheless, those who are looking for free :) online manual to complement reading, here is Airplane Flying Handbook (http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/airplane_handbook/)

Rgds
A

superbkriz

21st Sep 2010, 07:05

Thanks for the prompt reply. I feel strange because in the past there was only 1 aptitude test (the one explained by holdmetight) throughout the interview (except the one in FTA) and I am surprised they have 2 now so I doubt if they are still using the old aptitude software for the new interview selection? I heard rumors that the stage 2 aptitude is the dragonair one but not sure. And not everyone has to do aptitude test in stage 2. Just want to be sure if it is still the old aptitude test they are using.

Benj1

21st Sep 2010, 07:34

Yup as what SW1 has replied.

Find out where FTA is based.. What aircraft they operate, their specs, engines etc. Be able to identify those aircraft as I was given a model of a Duchess on the table and told to identify it.

Be familiar with the training programme there, how many hours would you graduate with.. what licenses would you hold.

As well as be familiar with Parafield airport.

Cheers.

holdmetight

21st Sep 2010, 14:20

Nowadays there are two computer-based tests in the cadet selection process; the old aptitude test and the Wombat Test. Each of these tests has a different focus so I really wouldn't say they are mutually exclusive. Though interview itineraries and schedules can vary significantly, anyone who makes it to Stage 2 will definitely have done both tests. The aptitude test is still the one that Cathay have always used, and has not been switched to the Dragonair aptitude test. I can confirm this because I did Stage 2 and 3 myself just 2 weeks before.

SW1

21st Sep 2010, 15:08

Telephone from personal experience

Smell the Coffee

21st Sep 2010, 18:35

I think it depends - lately those that have gone through to Stage 2 have got an email.

Regarding the aptitude tests - I am through to Stage 2 - I remember doing the Reasoning test and the Wombat test at S1. I gather the Maths test and the stick 'n rudder stuff is up next ...

For those doing the Wombat test ... I must admit, I actually enjoyed the test very much indeed! I'd love to do it again - and this is a person who owns ZERO computer games .... it's actually fun :eek:

Stallone

22nd Sep 2010, 06:34

captboeing737ng

22nd Sep 2010, 07:32

I was just wondering, is there any guys out there that got through stage 1 and got invited back for stage 2 after having a average interview.:ugh:
I studied hard for my stage 1 interview and testing. My tests went well but nerves got the better of me in the interview and I didn't do so well. I was told that they would contact me in two weeks. Well now it's nearing the end of the second week, with no word.

Any advice would be appreciated.:ok:

dagger19

22nd Sep 2010, 07:37

Stallone:
did you pass the final interview and had gone for the medical?
when was your SIA interview?

Stallone

22nd Sep 2010, 08:24

Stallone:
did you pass the final interview and had gone for the medical?
when was your SIA interview?

interview for SIA was on 17th July, they only took 1week to reply me after i applied online

i didn't get to the 2nd round

GAFLYER-0

22nd Sep 2010, 14:26

I just applied to the cadet program today. Does anyone know of a way I can start following up with HR without them contacting me first? I really want the job and I want to show that as much as I can.

SW1

22nd Sep 2010, 14:32

I wouldnt recommend it, it is very easy to come across as pestering them. Your chance to show them that you really want the job, like ALL of the rest of us on this forum, is to wait for them to invite you to interview and prove your worth there.

By all means you can send them emails everyday and call them telling them how badly you want the cadetship! But it is very easy to cross over the line and appear desperate. Just my two ps worth.

NewZealand787

22nd Sep 2010, 20:23

CaptBoeing737ng

I also interviewed in Auckland last week (I assume thats when you interviewed). They said they'd get back to me 2 weeks from my interview date, which was Sept14.

As for people getting to stage 2 with an average stage 1 interview, I cant really help you out there. All I know is that I interviewed last year and totally bombed, needless to say I didn't get to stage 2. I feel this time went much better though.

Good luck to ya!

kaufmansj

23rd Sep 2010, 06:59

Hi! I'm from the Philippines too. I'm planning on applying for the training programme as well but I having trouble with this:

Secondary Education Results *

Provide details of secondary education qualifications obtained (e.g. HKCEE, HKALE, GCSE, GCE A Level, IB, OAC, HSC etc.), listing ALL subjects and results

I don't know what are their equivalent for those who studied in the Philippines. Can you please enlighten me on what are the details that I should provide?

holdmetight

23rd Sep 2010, 07:47

I don't know what are their equivalent for those who studied in the Philippines.

I am not from the Philippines, but if my information is correct then there is no nation-wide matriculation examination for high school students in the Philippines. If that is indeed true there is no equivalent for

HKCEE, HKALE, GCSE, GCE A Level, IB, OAC, HSC etc.

in the Philippines. In that case I'd advise you to put your 4th year high school results there instead - perhaps what you have on your Form 138 record of studies? Or your CEE results if you have any. I'm not sure how accurate my information is, but I hope you get my drift. The main thing is to let them know you have finished high school and hence have the educational qualification for university study. Good luck!

Stallone

23rd Sep 2010, 09:29

after waiting for 10 months now, i have changed my preference to hong kong, anybody can tell me please when will they consider me or when shall i expect a call for intial interview in hong kong. any rough idea???

how did u change your location??

Em773ER

23rd Sep 2010, 10:27

If my memory serves me well, CX dont transfer 747 S/Os to 747 F/Os.. which aircraft do they go to after they finish their time as S/Os? and are there any other aircraft that this also occurs?

holdmetight

23rd Sep 2010, 11:02

which aircraft do they go to after they finish their time as S/Os?

A lot of B744 S/Os upgrade to F/O on the B777.

Em773ER

23rd Sep 2010, 11:16

Thanks holdmetight!

Correct me if I am wrong on this:

B744 SOs upgrade to B772, B773, B773ER via the Cross Crew Qualification course
B77(2,3,3ER) upgrade to B77(2,3,3ER)
A343 SOs upgrade to A333 also via Cross Crew Qualification course or stay on A343
A333 SOs stay on the A333

Anyone please feel free to add onto this or correct.

holdmetight

23rd Sep 2010, 11:34

Very interesting find you have there! I have never heard, though, of any hard-and-fast rules that Cathay have with regards to fleet changes (if any) for upgrading S/Os. I always thought that these changes, if necessary, were dictated by which course was available at the time of upgrade. I'm open to correction though, could be wrong on that one. :)

B744 SOs upgrade to B772, B773, B773ER via the Cross Crew Qualification course

The Cross Crew Qualification concept remains an Airbus one (for now). Essentially a CCQ is an abbrieviated ground school course that allows an A330 pilot to fly an A340 with minimum conversion training, since the systems on the two types are so similar. I don't think CCQ exists throughout the entire Airbus family though, an example of my assumption would be you cannot CCQ from an A319 to an A380. Having said that, you cannot "CCQ" from the B747 onto the B777 - these fleets are entirely seperate and a full training course is needed to transfer from one fleet to the other. In the B777 fleet, you fly all variants but I do not believe there is an equivalent concept of CCQ/MFF on that fleet; pilots are simply trained on all variants and that is it.

But a definite answer would be that B744 S/Os definitely do upgrade onto the B777 as F/Os.

B77(2,3,3ER) upgrade to B77(2,3,3ER)

Not sure about this. The B777 fleet only started having a large number of S/Os a few years ago, when the company acquired the new 77Ws. I guess we will have to wait for another few years before we know the answer to this one.

A343 SOs upgrade to A333 also via Cross Crew Qualification course or stay on A343
A333 SOs stay on the A333

The Airbus fleet is a single fleet, as such Airbus pilots of all ranks fly both the A330 and A340. The only exception is for new Airbus S/Os, who must spend a certain amount of time on the A340 first before getting CCQ-ed onto the A330.

Hope my information is accurate, if not, please feel free to correct. :ok:

Em773ER

23rd Sep 2010, 12:08

Ahh I see! Thanks for that holdmetight :ok:

So does this mean that the roster of A330 and A340 pilots is combined?

Just a rough example:
on the roster it may say you are to fly from HK to DBX and back in the A330, then later on that month (same roster) fly from HK to Rome in the A340 and back again etc
(the routes may not be correct but hopefully you get the idea)

and from a while back Sloppy Joe posted this... Quote: One of the Airbuses most hated flights for an SO is px to Bangkok, next evening fly to Karachi and back to Bangkok have a day and a half off in Bangkok then fly to Karachi and back again then sit in business class for the Bangkok to HKG bit.

As you can notice Sloppy Joe said "Airbuses" not specifically the A330 or A340, could this be what i'm referring to as a multiple aircraft roster? i.e. are these routes only operated by one aircraft or both A340 and A330?

hopefully my question makes sense!

Thanks in advance! :ok:

holdmetight

23rd Sep 2010, 12:47

So does this mean that the roster of A330 and A340 pilots is combined?

As far as I'm aware of, you are correct.

Just a rough example:
on the roster it may say you are to fly from HK to DBX and back in the A330, then later on that month (same roster) fly from HK to Rome in the A340 and back again etc
(the routes may not be correct but hopefully you get the idea)

I am not sure if you can get an A330 flight and an A340 flight in the same month, or how the crew scheduling goes in that regard. I can only say that CCQ'd Airbus pilots in Cathay are rostered to fly both on A330 and A340-operated flights.

SloppyJoe

23rd Sep 2010, 13:00

Almost correct,

If you are flying both the A340 and A330 yes you get mixed rosters regardless of rank. FOs and CNs have to have mixed rosters to maintain landing recency or they end up only being able to fly the type they maintain currency on, this happens mainly on the 340 and they then often don't fly the 340 again. SOs can go months without flying an A340 or A330 and it is not a problem as you never get to land them anyway :sad:

SOs have upgraded to FOs on the 744 in the past but usually if they already have some serious hours in large aircraft prior to CX. Not because of the plane being harder to fly than a 777 but due to the historic role of longhaul so not many sectors to train on in the 744, maybe this is the way the 777 will go but has not done so yet.

Airbus SOs can and do upgrade to FOs on the 777 and 777 SOs can and do upgrade to FOs on the Airbus.

Not everyone flies both the A340 and A330 it all depends on the companies needs.

All Airbus SOs start on the A340, most FOs start on the A330.

Lots of people only fly the A330 and are not CCQd.

A few people only (maybe not anymore) fly the A340 and are not CCQd but this will probably be changing if it has not done so already. This would be guys who upgraded onto the 340 or a few based in AMS LHR on the 340 (not many now, maybe none as all changing fleet to 777 or changed to 744). Possibly a couple of pilots based in AKL but not sure.

Lots of FOs and CNs only fly the 330 as we have loads more of them and then no need to stay current on 340. Those based in AUS would rarely have the chance to fly an A340. Not enough A340 sectors to keep everyone current so would use lots of 340 sim time doing landing recency.

The reason I said those who fly Airbuses is because you would fly both the A330 and A340 as an SO if you were doing an A330 route. As above you would have joined on the A340 so would have to be CCQd to be doing a 330 route. Yes the routes are usually aircraft specific so all flight to Karachi are 330 but if there was a problem with a plane no reason why the wouldn't send something else or for many other reasons.

GAFLYER-0

23rd Sep 2010, 13:17

Job Search

go to the link i pasted above and write "CADETS" in text search, u will be directed to the application.

correction last date is 29th sep.

gud luck

If you/we have a CPL or a Frozen ATPL you/we are not eligible for this program. Bummer. :hmm:

SW1

23rd Sep 2010, 13:20

Lets keep this about the Cathay thing and not let it spill into the etihad cadet scheme:ok:

holdmetight

23rd Sep 2010, 13:29

Thanks for the information. :ok:

Mouwaa

24th Sep 2010, 00:00

S/O upgrades to F/O:

They will upgrade you wherever they need crew.

You will start as an A340 S/O, then after a year or 2 do a CCQ to the A330. Some guys upgrade from airbus to 777 F/Os, some will stay on Airbus. If you upgrade from an Airbus S/O, you will initially only be an F/O on the A330, later on, they may CCQ you to A340 F/O. Where they can, they generally upgrade Airbus S/Os to Airbus F/Os as it is a shorter course and therefore cheaper for them.

777 and 744 are completely separate type ratings, having said that, 744 and 777 are very similar to operate in terms of the logic of the AFDS and FMS/CDU, so it is a lot simpler to jump from a 744 to a 777 than to an airbus.

Even when you are an FO they will switch you between airbus and boeing if they need crew in different fleets.

MartyBumbleBee

25th Sep 2010, 19:13

Hi everyone,

I'm new on PPRUNE... I've just gone through stage 3 of the selection process and have been invited to stage 4 so my next step is the flight grading in ADL. Looking at the FTO website, their flight grading process includes computer exercises with psycho tests and then of course around 10 flights... Do the cadets pilots applicants sent by CX have to go through these computer tests ??? Since we had the CX-style tests at stage 2 and 3, do we have to go also through the FTO-style computer tests or are we just going to have the flights and sim ?

Maybe that question has been raised already... but I haven't seen it...

Thanks!

nmcpilot

25th Sep 2010, 19:53

DDobin - Generally companies only test for drugs and alcohol if it's a requirement under the Department of Transport I don't think it's a requirement for HK. I know you certainly don't when you go for your initial medical in the UK at Gatwick. But if you are going to be working for them then I suppose they might be more inclined but it will cost the company money so unless they are made to I think they generally don't? Please someone correct me if I am wrong. I haven't gone through the CX medical so can't give a definitive answer...

Best to keep off the booze on the run up to the medical though I'd say..

DDobinpilot

25th Sep 2010, 21:57

Thanks for the reply, I was just wondering from anyone who has been through the process recently knows exactly what the different tests are. I think they have an HIV test but dont know apart from that what is different..

kaufmansj

26th Sep 2010, 02:34

I'll do that. Thank you very much for your help!:ok:

holdmetight

26th Sep 2010, 04:47

MartyBumbleBee

Do the cadets pilots applicants sent by CX have to go through these computer tests ???

As far as I know, yes. I heard the tests are quite easy when compared to the ones you did at CX though, so you shouldn't need to worry.

DDobinpilot

During my medical I was only requested to leave a sample of urine and blood, nothing more. While I wasn't told what these fluids would be used for, from prior experience with the CASA Class 1 medical check I guess it would be to test for hidden illnesses such as HIV, diabetes, hepatitis etc.

Regarding drugs/tobacco/alcohol, I was only asked questions during the quiz in the doctor's office, and I'm not aware they did anything to follow it up. The questions were quite simple, for example "Have you ever used tobacco products/recreational drugs" and "Do you drink? If so how much and how frequently?" I suspect they will only start probing if they notice something in their investigation. That said though, nmcpilot is right, try to lay off the stuff leading up to the medical. You are, after all, trying to convince them to invest in you.

Malov

26th Sep 2010, 09:57

Hi, anyone in HKG for Stage 1 interview the 18th of October, please PM

SW1

26th Sep 2010, 12:40

@ DDOBINpilot, I can confirm that there IS a pre employment drug test as part of the Cathay recruitment process. I was firstly asked whether I had consumed anything in the last 2 weeks containing poppy seeds, which will test positive for Opium, so dont eat any poppy seed bagels. Also I was asked If I had taken any pharmaceutical drugs like Aspirin as I think these can interfere with the results, making it look like youre trying to conceal something in your urine and hence fail the tests. When I was sitting in the waiting room, I saw a notice pinned on the board that laid out all the requirements for the initial medical. At the bottom it said Pre employment drug test, YES. So I wouldnt go near any coffee shops in your home country in the near future.

Mark Roland

26th Sep 2010, 15:50

How many people do you think applied for CX's cadet pilot programme? How many r accepted and how many are rejected?

Thx guys.;)

holdmetight

26th Sep 2010, 16:22

How many people do you think applied for CX's cadet pilot programme?

I read somewhere that there were around 20,000 applications this year.

How many r accepted and how many are rejected?

Accepted = 50-100, maybe 150?
Rejected = the rest?

kaufmansj

27th Sep 2010, 02:00

holdmetight

27th Sep 2010, 04:23

Do you think the chances are very slim for someone who haven't got any flight training at all? I'm new here and i'm planning to apply but I'm worried because I don't even know what FTO, JAA class 1, etc means.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif

The chances are not slim for those who haven't had flight training before; the chances are only slim for those who haven't done their homework.

Start reading up!

CMS123

27th Sep 2010, 13:52

I did my stage 3 last month but haven't heard anything back.
I wonder if everyone need to do further eye examination with Ophthalmologist? or that is required only for those who wear glasses. I hope not getting an email to do eye examination is not a bad sign to me.

SW1

27th Sep 2010, 13:59

Hi,

Some people had eye issues and others had various follow up things Cathays medical department wanted checked out. I know 2 people now who had their stage 3 on the 9th September who have been given dates for Flight Grading in about 2 weeks from now. If you did your stage 3 last month, maybe you should call them or email HR in case they have forgotten about you.

holdmetight

27th Sep 2010, 16:01

I wonder if everyone need to do further eye examination with Ophthalmologist? or that is required only for those who wear glasses.

You only go for a further eye examination if you cannot meet the listed visual prerequisites for an initial issue CAD Class 1 medical.

Are you headed for the full course or short course?

What Luck

27th Sep 2010, 21:28

Yo,
I'm going to stage 2 in HK on 26th of oct. I know we must know knowledge booklet stuff and info far beyond the level outlined there but does anyone have some examples of technical questions asked in the stage 2 interview?

thanks WL

CMS123

28th Sep 2010, 00:17

Thank you for info.
I have CPL and over 250 hrs, so I should be qualified for the short course.

Pandaman

28th Sep 2010, 03:57

Hi mate,i am doing stage 2 and 3 on 26th 27th oct...best of luck ...and..hopefully we will meet on that day..:ok:

cheers,
Pandaman

Em773ER

28th Sep 2010, 07:19

I forgot to thank sloppyjoe and holdmetight earlier, thanks guys for the info on S/O fleet upgrades!

Now since nobody has yet found a reliable source of ALL the CX "routes by aircraft", I thought that we all together in this forum make our own, then at the end we will add them all together and have a full CX route map specific to each aircraft.

So far I have found for passenger aircraft: (to and from Hong Kong, also via other countries which i'm not sure of)

747-400: Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Heathrow, Paris, San Francisco, Vancouver, New Chitose Airport Japan, Kansai Intl Airport Osaka Japan, Bali Ngurah Rai Airport, Johannesburg

Not exactly sure about which 777 variant goes to each of these destinations but, at least one of each (only an assumption) goes to: Los Angeles, JFK New York, Toronto, Vancouver, Heathrow, Milan.

A340-300: Auckland, Brisbane, Rome, Vancouver, Bombay, New Delhi, Moscow, Johannesburg.

A330-300: Adelaide, Brisbane, Cairns, Sydney, Perth, Melbourne, Dubai, Narita Airport Tokyo... and also to add to this, it goes from Adelaide to Melbourne aka a Cabotage flight (allowed in Australia to carry passengers as a domestic flight).

This is all I can find and think of (i'm sure there is way more than this). Everyone feel free to add on to this and correct me if i'm wrong, and also the the other places that CX go via on their routes as well would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! We can do it :ok:

Pandaman

28th Sep 2010, 07:54

:)Hi mate,
thanks for the info.actually,you can obtain informations regarding Cathay's fleets and routes.They DO have published a little booklet,which is updated on a regular basis(i am not sure how frequent they update it,but it seems they do an update like every 6 months ).

i am not sure whether there is an electronic version,but i am pretty sure you can get one by asking those customers service ladies sitting the check-in counter at CLK.

i have pick up one last time i travelled with KA..(they include the fleets and routes info. for KA as well but that one is more simplier since they only operate 333/321/320).

althougth that little booklet is rather useful,i sometime use the Airliners.net to help me spotting which AC does CX operate to each port.

hope this helps.and best of luck with your applications.finger X:ok:

pandaman

BigglesNBella

28th Sep 2010, 14:07

Em773ER: The 777-300ER is the only 777 that goes to the destinations you listed.

The drug tests: You will get tested at least twice on the way to a cadetship. They test for a variety of narcotics including cannaboids and opiates.

DDobinpilot

28th Sep 2010, 14:24

I think it would definately would be alot harder to get in if you have no previous flight training experience tbh.. They are investing in you and it's alot easier for them to invest in someone they know who has been through it all before and has reports from their FTO etc.. surely that would be far less risk for CX??

BigglesNBella. I would think they just drugs test at each Medical no? Unless they were suspicious of you. Seems a bit too much of an expense to them to Drugs test you twice on the route to cadetship? Or is this from experience?

BigglesNBella

28th Sep 2010, 14:27

You go through two medicals on the way to a cadetship.

SW1

28th Sep 2010, 14:31

DDobin,

Its true what you say, but the vast battery of tests they put you through, plus the Flight Grading, allows Cathay to see how much of a risk you will be. We were told that you wont even sign a contract with them until you have finished all your training down in ADL. In other words, they can chop you at any time they like. Granted, they might have wasted a fair amount of money by this point, but im learning quite quickly that Cathay have their own rules regarding this.

Regarding the drugs test, its not uncommon for airlines to pull you in for random drugs tests, in America it is standard policy as well as the likes of BA in Europe. My advice would be to stear well clear of any ilicit substances if youre serious about this cadetship, would be a shame to mess it all up because of something in your system!

Biggles, whens the second medical? Im stil waiting for a reply from Cathay after receiving a medical follow up letter last week regarding an issue they wanted further investigated. Can i ask, is this common with potential cadets?

holdmetight

28th Sep 2010, 16:12

Em773ER

Out of the top of my head... the B777 is also known to go to Taipei, Seoul Incheon, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Penang, Jakarta, Denpasar, Bangkok, Moscow and Colombo. The A330 flies to Manila and Cebu.

BigglesNBella

When is the second medical, and what is it for? I have always been informed that there is only one medical in the selection process.

gopher121

28th Sep 2010, 16:20

I just did the first stage interview,Thanks for all the helpful posts and specially for the ones who replied to my questions.
So I would like to do the same and share my experience,I would reply to anyone who wants to know more about the stage1,by PM because the questions will have more chance to be asked again even if I had not really difficult questions.

OZvandriver

29th Sep 2010, 02:11

Holdmetight:

I havent gone through the process myself but i was told that there was a medical in stage 3 (as you know) and another one prior to starting in adelaide once you are accepted.

So techincally yes you are right, there is only 1 medical during the selection process. The other medical is once you have already been accepted to the cadetship.

Turbofan GE

29th Sep 2010, 03:37

Hello Bro. Glad to hear that an African brother went to the interview with Cathay. CAn u please send me the details?Questions and other.i will attend the interview in october.thx a lot Best of luck:):ok:

holdmetight

29th Sep 2010, 04:38

there is only 1 medical during the selection process. The other medical is once you have already been accepted to the cadetship.

Thanks for the heads up!

That clarifies the purpose of the second medical, I'm guessing it is for the CASA Class 2 medical needed to fly as a student pilot in Australia. Obviously they would only have you do this medical if your participation in the cadet programme is confirmed, which is after you pass flight grading and have been offered a cadetship.

Pandaman

29th Sep 2010, 05:46

i have found a PDF file which contains the system timetable for cathay's operations which they would update twice a year.

hope this one can help!!

http://downloads.cathaypacific.com/cx/timetable/cxtimetable.pdf
cheers and finger X with the applications!:ok:

pandaman

Em773ER

29th Sep 2010, 10:16

Cheers guys for the info! :)

nmcpilot

29th Sep 2010, 10:56

Just out of interest do SO's get the same kind of roster as an FO/Captain? As in do they have the same days off and on etc? Or are SO's worked alot harder as maybe I have my wires crossed here but I was reading that you log P2X time as an SO and to get to that you divide the flight time by 4?? Just thinking if that is the case then they will most likely work you alot harder.. Or was the divide by 4 comment about how other airlines would count P2X time if you went for another job??

holdmetight

29th Sep 2010, 12:34

Just out of interest do SO's get the same kind of roster as an FO/Captain?

No the rosters are not the same. S/Os mainly do long-haul and ultra long-haul flights, so there are more days off for them. In a nutshell... under HKG aviation law, there is a maximum amount of hours each pilot can fly annually (something around the 900 mark)... so when all an S/O does is fly long sectors that are probably 14-18 hours each, the number of flights they can do is reduced. This is opposed to a CN and F/O who can do regional flights that have fewer block hours, so legally they can be rostered to do more flights. Make sense?

The "divide by 4" concept you saw is how S/Os calculate the P2X hours that they put into their logbooks.

nmcpilot

29th Sep 2010, 13:28

Yes I did think this, but do you log the whole flight time in your logbook? Say for a flight from HK to JFK of 16hours, would I log 16 hours then 4hours would go in the P2X time? Or would I just log 4 hours for that flight?? I was just wondering as if you only logged the P2X time then they'd be able to work you alot harder..

holdmetight

29th Sep 2010, 14:06

This delves into the intracacies of aviation legislation and CX company policy, so perhaps only the professionals can give you a definite answer. That said, my general understanding is as follows:

1. Calculating and logging P2X time is used to summarize the time for which an S/O is at the controls of the aircraft. I think of it as a calculation of block hours for S/Os, which is obviously calculated in a different way from F/Os and CNs.

2. The annual flying hours limit is imposed on the credit hours and not block hours.

3. Block hours = Off-Chocks to On-Chocks

4. Credit hours = All time at work including block hours, i.e. from signing on at CX City to signing off at the outport.

Summing up the these points, my understanding is that while an S/O does not log all the time in the air, his total duty time is what counts towards the annual flying limit, as such it is why he cannot be rostered flights as frequently as an F/O or CN.

I hope this makes sense. If it is wrong in any way, please don't flame me and feel free to make corrections! :ok:

icanfly2

29th Sep 2010, 23:10

Anyone heard on Stage 1 results from AKL?

SloppyJoe

29th Sep 2010, 23:40

Yes it is the credit hours that count for the yearly limit.

You only log the time at the controls, so on a 4 crew flight of 12 hours you would log about 5 1/2 hours as P2X. Say one hour is when the operating FO and CN are doing the T/O and LDG and the rest is split 50/50 so each pilot gets the same rest.

On most 3 crew flights of say 10 hours you would log 6 hours of P2X, one hour for FO and CN to do T/O and LDG then the rest split three ways so each pilot is getting 3 hours in the bunk or business class seat.

On some 3 crew flight you as an SO are burnt out meaning that for the FO and CN to not exceed the duty limit you have to work so they can rest. BKK to KHI and back is say 5 hours each way, you work for 4 hours each sector, FO rests on the way there, CN rests on the way back.

herrtob

30th Sep 2010, 01:50

thanks sloppyjoe, very exciting stuff!

NZGYPO

30th Sep 2010, 02:42

not yet mate, do you know how many people went for that interview?

holdmetight

30th Sep 2010, 03:48

Thanks for the info! :ok:

Airman1985

30th Sep 2010, 03:58

I went through Cathay's Stage 2 and Stage 3 on Sep 7th/8th. After going through their very rigorous process (same as what others experienced), at the end of the 2nd day, I was failed at the medical exam for having too short of leg lengths by 3cm (1.18in). I met the height requirement as written on their website (160cm)-- I'm 164, so I thought they were initially joking, but apparently, it did not meet the company's policy while that would not have prevented me from getting the medical certificate.

I just wanted to let you guys know that Cathay may have some stuff in their policy they could fail you based on. On my way home, at my home airport, I met their B777 chief pilot; he seated me in the captain seat with the seat adjusted; he said that I won't have problems functioning in the cockpit...

I had a conversation with some people at Cathay before I left; on that day, the company immediately added "may be subject to functional reach test" as one of their Cadet requirements on their website.

At this point, I have not heard a word from them, and I am thinking that they either haven't decided to officially reject me or haven't bothered to even send me a rejection letter. I am assuming that the company has its priority, and I am thinking that those who got rejected are not on their priority list...

Stallone

30th Sep 2010, 06:11

3cm, gosh 3cm

they really are that stringent

dagger19

30th Sep 2010, 06:37

Airman1985:
I guess you just have to wait patiently for the their response. From my past experience, dont rush them and just wait patiently. You should be proud that you have made to the medicals and its all up to the fate.

I guess CX is really picky despite the lack of pilots.

ronron_v439q

30th Sep 2010, 06:39

Hi Airman1985,
I understand your frustration/concerns but do not worry too much, you never know till the very end.
I believe that you are in Japan and working as a Flight Instructor?. At least you have a good head start compared to many potential cadets in this forum, As a CFI, you should already have a few hundred flying hours?
Since you are in Japan, have you consider applying for new airlines like Fuji Dream Airlines (based in Shizuoka), they are looking for FO now. Also look at other budget airlines, smaller companies like Skymark, Air-Do, StarFlyer, Honda Air etc etc. Some of them even have trainee pilots programs for pilots with a few hundred hours like yourself (I think ANA is one of them where they will cover some fees and the rest will be paid by yourself)
Look for other smaller FBO around Japan, send your resume to them, you never know what will come out of it. Even if you cannot get a job with them now, at least you initialize the contact and they will know you.

Keep the faith!

NightFlightsAreMagic

30th Sep 2010, 07:46

Hello,

First of all, thank you all for the posts, the help and the good advices that you all gave others and also me. I'm a 'silent' reader for some time now. I had my stage I selection the 27th of August and passed it. I'm now waiting for them to send me the next date for the 2nd and 3th stage.

Airman, your last post concerns me enormous. I'm 1.64m as well. You said that your legs are 3cm to short, but did they tell you what the minimum requirement is? If so, I would like to know it. I've my frozen atpl, and I never had big problems flying an airplane. If I had problems, I would take my pillow or wear my high heels. I understand, as a guy, you can't put on some nice high heels. I've my MCC on the 737NG and I did a couple hours 'recreational' flying in the FFS's of my previous FTO. I never had problems due to my height in the jets. In the jets, everything you can adjust to a min height of 1.58m, I believe. (correct me if I'm wrong) I had to fly with a pillow -just like ALL the girls- in the training aircrafts of my FTO, but I never needed one in the jets.

I hope that they contact you very soon, with some good news!

Blue skies, tailwinds, happy landings,

NFAM

VFE

30th Sep 2010, 18:37

There are numerous mentions of T's and C's in this thread for CEP's but nowhere online can I find a definate list of the salient points. Short of asking CX directly (which might appear presumptuous given that I've not been for an interview as yet) I can only ask here if anyone minds posting what they know?

Being in the +1500hrs camp I am interested to know whether the educational requirements will be any less given the experience factor and what pay is during and after initial 12 week training.

Many thanks,

VFE.

nmcpilot

30th Sep 2010, 20:23

Yes they are not quite so rigorous with their educational requirements if you have already got all the relevant licenses they require. But still obviously like a good educational background.:ugh:

Another question I have.. Are the 4 man crew aircraft they operate the 747-400 and A340-300 with the 777-300er being 3 man? Or is that also 4man?

pill

30th Sep 2010, 23:58

nmcpilot, duty longer than 13 hours, crossing 6 hours or more time zones requires 4 crew under current FTL's. Bunks must be provided. 777-300ER, 744and 340 all do 4 man crew, ULH every day of the week at CX.

VFE

1st Oct 2010, 11:43

Nmcpilot, thanks. Do you (or anyone else) know how or even if the interview process differs for +1500hr candidates, questions likely to be asked, tasks to be completed etc?

Many thanks again,

VFE.

nmcpilot

1st Oct 2010, 12:26

I am not entirely sure, I am not doing the course myself at the moment although hope to be, I know 3 people who are on it. All tried to shorten the courses for themselves by mainly by trying to get out of doing the ground school exams as they had already done the 14 UK JAA ATPL exams which are supposed to be far harder and the conclusion that came out of it was that they would need at least 1500 hours in order to receive dispensation from the exams.

But I am not entirely sure, the educational qualifications I can say on as I certainly don't have the best academic record but with the fact I have flying qualifications has gotten me through the door it would seem.

I am speculating a bit here though I'm afraid as said I'm not on the course myself..

nmcpilot

1st Oct 2010, 12:28

99% sure though that if you are applying for the cadet position all the interviews will be the same, the only thing that will differ is they might really nail you on the tech questions during the interview if you are very experienced..

VFE

1st Oct 2010, 12:41

Many thanks nmcpilot, much appreciated. Hope you get started on the course soon.

VFE.

SW1

1st Oct 2010, 13:00

As nmc stated, they will really grill you on the technical questions. Doesnt seem to matter what aircraft they are rated on, the interviewing captains and Fos know it all. I had to explain why engines are flat rated, define flex thrust and the various reference temperatures. Low temperature corrections to ILS decision altitude. Questions on TODR, ADSR etc

NightFlightsAreMagic

1st Oct 2010, 13:38

Does anybody know what the differences are between the short and the long course for the cadet program?

SW1

1st Oct 2010, 13:47

32 weeks, if you have over 250 hours, and 61 weeks repectively

VFE

1st Oct 2010, 14:57

SW1, were you asked specific type questions because you are type rated or were they generic questions based on assumed knowledge as per fATPL with no airline experience?

Thanks,

VFE.

SW1

1st Oct 2010, 15:15

I was asked questions such as MLW, MTOW of the A320 and when alpha Floor is inhibited, this was asked in my stage 2 and 3 by a 777 captain and the 747 chief pilot. they wrote the numbers down I quoted, so very easy to go and look it up afterwards.

Basic ATPL knowledge will be tested for example. "Tell me about the fuel system of the Airbus?" So I explained. "Where is fuel used first?" My answer was centre tanks first, inner tanks then outer tanks. We keep fuel in the centre tanks for CG purposes.

This lead to " Why do we keep fuel in the wings" My answer- to alleviate wing bending relief and flutter. This lead to explain effect of stalling speed with aft cg, forward cg, what this does to our range, tailplane downforce etc

My point is they will chop and change between type specific and ATPL thoery knowledge, its all performance, Aerodynamics, engines type questions on basic knowledge. I had a DALR, SALR question to do on the board as well. That can be found from their JKI booklet.

Moral of the story is, know everything you can about your current aircraft. incidentally they didnt ask me to explain anything fabout the twin model they had on the table. Although i was asked to identify the large 777 model. Funny thing was, they were like, what model is this? I said its a 777-300ER. How did I know they asked, because it says GE90 (in small print) on the engines. We better scrub that off was their reply:} Its got 5 exits as well, so that will immediatly allow you to indentify it as a 777-300ER, 300 series. The 200 series only has 4 exits.

VFE

1st Oct 2010, 15:27

Excellent stuff SW1, many thanks for a good insight there and I like your style re: identifying the 777-300 ER!

As a non type rated GA pilot I guess they'll just grill me on general ATPL theory although I shall swallow a C152 POH before I go just in case! lol

Thanks again,

VFE.

holdmetight

1st Oct 2010, 15:30

Just to follow up on what has been said by SW1...

From my personal experience, there are two types of questions that they throw at you. The first type are the "must-know" questions, which is self-explanatory. You are expected to display a good level of understanding in certain topics, and the breadth of your knowledge pool should be directly proportional to your experience levels. Such topics could be ground school subjects relevant to your licenses/ratings, and aircraft-specific knowledge.

The second type of questions are to try to throw you off, see how well you work outside your comfort zone. I hold a PPL, with all my time being on single-engine aircraft and VFR only. I was asked to explain FLEX thrust settings on the Airbus aircraft, use of trim tanks for CG-related purposes, all the V-speeds etc. They also asked me behavioural-type questions, such as what I would do if confronted with a certain situation in an airline operation.

Just study as much as you possibly can, get in there and give it your best shot. Good luck!:ok:

SW1

1st Oct 2010, 15:30

Thats it mate, know all you can about it. I can imagine they'll ask about constant speed props and the likes so brush up no what you think they will ask. Certain things I was sure they would ask such as: Typhoons and how they are formed didnt come up so wasted effort on my part eh. Good luck!!

holdmetight

1st Oct 2010, 15:33

I didn't get the typhoon question either, but a lot of my mates did, so I did a decent amount of study on it. Oh well... ;)

VFE

1st Oct 2010, 15:48

Great stuffs folks, please do keep it coming if you can. Sounds like a complete lottery as to what exactly they will throw at you but a base level knowledge on the big topics is a must I guess. Any other common/notorious questions like the typhoon one?

Currently awaiting my 'Preparing for the Cathay Interview' book but does anyone know where I can obtain the JKI booklet?

Thanks again,

VFE.

holdmetight

1st Oct 2010, 16:52

Here are some examples of common questions:

1. What do you know about Cathay Pacific?
2. What do you know about the cadet training in FTA?
3. If you are given a choice of fleet upon graduation, which fleet would you choose? Why?

As for the JKI booklet, they will send it to your e-mail as an attachment to your Stage 1 confirmation. I'm not sure if you can download it online, if not then PM me your e-mail address and I'll send it to you.

VFE

1st Oct 2010, 17:10

Excellent Holdmetight, thanks for that! You have mail.....

VFE.

northbound207

2nd Oct 2010, 02:07

anyone waiting for adv flight grading or flight grading at this time?

holdmetight

2nd Oct 2010, 09:01

anyone waiting for adv flight grading or flight grading at this time?

Yeah I'm waiting for flight grading, probably going to do the advanced one. I know a couple of people who are also waiting for a call; the handful of us did Stage 3 in early September. How have things been for you?

DDobinpilot

2nd Oct 2010, 10:59

Just out of interest how long did you guys have to wait between Stage 1 and 2? I know they let you know about how you did in Stage 1 after about 1 - 2 weeks, but then how long before you are invited out to Hong Kong??

nmcpilot

2nd Oct 2010, 18:39

DDobin, I've heard anywhere from 3weeks - 3months, possibly longer though not entirely sure.

Just wanted to ask people who have been through the interview process who have a Frozen ATPL how concerned are they with getting all your high school educational certificates? I have most of mine but there are still a couple I can't get hold of do you think they'd see this as a problem considering I have all the necessary flying licenses anyway? Anyone have a similar experience? Difficult when school was like 8 years ago! :P

NewZealand787

2nd Oct 2010, 23:48

Anyone heard back from the Auckland interviews yet?

Em773ER

3rd Oct 2010, 07:09

Hey does anyone know exactly how P2X hours are regarded in relation to proper flying hours?, e.g 3 P2X hours = 1 proper hour etc etc. Reason im asking is because apparently some S/Os leave CX to work in their home countries etc after they finish their time as S/Os? Im guessing they would have a full ATPL and the required experience for F/O positions wherever they choose to go?

Thanks in advance!!:ok:

holdmetight

3rd Oct 2010, 09:41

Hey does anyone know exactly how P2X hours are regarded in relation to proper flying hours?, e.g 3 P2X hours = 1 proper hour etc etc.

I don't think there is any relationship between the two, just like multi-engine time and single-engine time are totally independent of each other, simply because you are doing entirely different things. It's when you become a JF/O and F/O that you start flying frequently enough, in the RHS with your P1 rating, to log those hours that would allow you to apply for a job back at home.

nmcpilot

3rd Oct 2010, 16:55

Just another quick one to anyone who has done the initial interview and has an ATPL did they ask for your flying training report from your FTO on the day?
As they haven't asked for it in the email, but seems like it would be a good thing for them to know! They don't want that yet they want my exam result certificates from school!

SW1

3rd Oct 2010, 18:33

nmcpilot,

I dont think having a decent reference from you flying school will do any harm. Regarding the school certificates. Did you not get sent a certificate of some sort when you got your results.? I remember being sent my GCSE results and physically going to pick up my A-Level results from college. You should have about 3 or 4 certificates from school from various exam boards saying Maths B? etc. They dont want to see what percentage you got in Mechanics 1 or AS history etc. Just the final certificate will suffice. ATPL exams are important as well!

nmcpilot

3rd Oct 2010, 18:50

SW1,

I have managed to dig out most of them now, all my flying docs and ATPL exam results are easily to hand as that's what most airlines seem to want rather than the high school certificates but meh guess CX are different!

Em773ER

4th Oct 2010, 01:51

holdmetight I was dreading that response lol. This raises a few questions.:ugh:

What are the minimum requirements for J/FO?
What are the duties of a J/FO compared to F/O and S/O?
Did DESO stay S/O's as long as cadets have to stay S/Os? (4-5 years?)
Do J/FOs log proper hours or do they still log P2X time?

Surely they must consider experience when going from S/O to J/FO?, so lets say nmcpilot who has an ATPL (correct me if im wrong), and myself with only an SPL get into the cadetship (fingers crossed mate lol). If we are both going to be S/Os for the mentioned period (4-5 years?), then nmcpilot is going to be wayyyy more experienced than me when we are promoted to J/FOs, which then raises my first question. Hopefully it all makes sense. Thanks!:ok:

Si3nna

4th Oct 2010, 03:01

What are the minimum requirements for J/FO?
Direct Entry or through the cadet route?
I'm assuming you were asking about the JFO upgrade through the cadet pilot route. Upgrade to JFO is dependent on the SO's seniority, experience. Usually flying ULH flights for approx. four years. It's very hard to justify the requirements.

What are the duties of a J/FO compared to F/O and S/O?
Once the SOs upgrade to JFO, they start on the Sim & have their base training in Zhuhai (usually) on their assigned aircraft (could be a different type). If they are successful, they start their line training flying with training captains on short haul flights. Once they have gained enough experiences, they are line checked. Once checked, they are pretty much qualified as a FO. They start flying the left hand seat as a JFO until the next upgrade, could be a year or two.

Did DESO stay S/O's as long as cadets have to stay S/Os? (4-5 years?)
Do J/FOs log proper hours or do they still log P2X time?
May be the other members can answer them for you.

Surely they must consider experience when going from S/O to J/FO?, so lets say nmcpilot who has an ATPL (correct me if im wrong), and myself with only an SPL get into the cadetship (fingers crossed mate lol). If we are both going to be S/Os for the mentioned period (4-5 years?), then nmcpilot is going to be wayyyy more experienced than me when we are promoted to J/FOs, which then raises my first question. Hopefully it all makes sense. Thanks

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for those holding a pilot licence, whether its a PPL, CPL or ATPL. All the hours are scarped if you have decided to choose the cadet route (at least the long course I know). I believe that is done to avoid having the same issue you've just mentioned. However, there are short courses out there accepting cadets with frozen ATPLs. Experiences are certainly important, but learning rate is just as important if not more, isn't it? As we all know most cadets haven't had any jet hours before and learning it will take time and hard work.

Mouwaa

4th Oct 2010, 03:15

all upgrade courses are done on the seniority list (date of joining), previous experience is irrelevant, whether you are a cadet or DESO, it makes no difference. Whether you actually pass the upgrade and get checked to line is on individual performance. If you fail the JFO uprade you don't get to keep your job.

crwjerk

4th Oct 2010, 04:36

@Em773ER

I'll answer as best i can, what the previous hasn't.

Min req's for J/FO are
: HKATPL ( or subjects)
: Already be an S/O in CX, and a couple of others which are irrelevant to you now.

S/O , JFO , FO duties.

S/O- operate in left or right seat as relief for operating crew, on Long hauls, Medium hauls ( Australia, Middle East )

JFO is basically an FO, with training and checks throughout this rank. Operate take offs and landings from RIGHT hand seat, ( not LEFT as Si3nna says);)
Once you've done about 6 months as JFO, you'll do a check called a "QL" after which you'll be FO. Same job, just more money, then you build your hours on type ( 200 ) to become RELIEF F/O ( Senior F/O).... Although this is not really "senior" anymore as the company have reduced the minimum requirements for this.

Upgrade times and Experience Levels

As there are no DESO's anymore, this may be irrelevant, but upon joining, DESO's were given Cat B status, and Cadets, cat C. You can be upgraded to JFO only if you've been given Cat A. This naturally occurs in time if you keep passing your checks! So, it would NORMALLY take a cadet a year longer or so to upgrade. I am not sure about now, as it was 10 years since i had to go through that system.
If you're a brand new pilot, or experienced, it doesn't really matter. I've seen experienced guys get fired at S/O stage believe me. If you pass everything, you will progress in seniority. You may take a little time to get a feel for the simulator ( that's all you'll fly), and the experienced guy may take less time. On JFO training, same thing. You'll get the right amount of experience for the position by absorbing as much as you can as S/O, doing your homework, and listening to those who are more senior to you. If you are having a problem, don't worry, you'll have a few chances a redeeming yourself, nobody is fired straight away. And it is VERY RARE.

cheers

Em773ER

4th Oct 2010, 12:29

Thanks Si3nna, mouwaa and crwjerk!

What's still bothering me though is P2X hours in regards to becoming J/FO.

Correct me if i'm wrong, at the end of the "long course" you finish with a fATPL MECIR, and about 250ish hours?. Then you do about 4-6 months sim training etc in HK before you start as S/O. These are the requirements for DEFOs, which does not concern us as such but crwjerk mentioned J/FOs are pretty much like F/Os.

All First Officer applicants must meet the following minimum requirements:

An ICAO Airline Transport Pilot's License (ATPL)
A minimum of 1000 hours in one of the following categories:
Airline Jet Transport
Command Turbo Prop (MAUW greater than 20,000 Kgs)
High Performance Military Jet
Corporate Jet Command

By the time someone finishes their time as S/O after doing the long course cadetship, will they have qualifications similar to those required for DEFOs? (in terms of hours). Which should mean that P2X hours must have a relationship to real hours? otherwise someone out there could probably be flying a B777 with only a few hundred real hours!!!

Sorry if i'm not making any sense, just need to get an idea of how this works. Cheers everyone!

Em773ER

4th Oct 2010, 12:32

I heard there are some interviews down at Parafield Airport in the next couple months I think, could be wrong... best of luck!

DDobinpilot

4th Oct 2010, 12:38

Does anyone know how much emphasis is put on what score you get in the reasoning test for the CX initial interview? Just wondering if anyone didn't think they did that well and still got through, who is also an ATPL (f). I hear the test starts off pretty easy but gets progressively harder as you go along... Going through some practice tests now and some of them are an absolute biatch! :{

holdmetight

4th Oct 2010, 13:57

otherwise someone out there could probably be flying a B777 with only a few hundred real hours!!!

That's correct, and exactly what the CX cadet programme has been doing for the past 22 years. This is not as rare as many think - almost all cadet pilot programmes allow their graduates to fly in the RHS from day 1.

As I mentioned earlier there is no relationship between P2X and P1 time. Cadets or DESO may not have the same experience in flying jets as their DEFO counterparts, but they are much more experienced in Cathay procedures and flight operations, which makes it possible for them to progress into the RHS despite the lack of manual handling experience.

On the other hand, DEFOs are means by which Cathay can quickly slot a relatively experienced pilot into the RHS, which is why the requirements for DEFOs is higher than for DESO and obviously cadet pilots. That is why you cannot really compare the entry requirements for cadets/DESO with old DEFO scheme. Hope this makes sense and is accurate!

DDobinpilot

4th Oct 2010, 15:13

Anyone know what engines CX's 747-400's use these days?

herrtob

4th Oct 2010, 15:18

if my notes are right, then

RB211-524GT/HT for B-HOx and B-HUx
PW4056-3 for B-HKx

(x : { a series of letters} )

please point us in the right direction if these are wrong, many thanks

barney31

4th Oct 2010, 17:26

please point us in the right direction if these are wrong, many thanks No need to point you in the right direction. You are spot on.:ok:
Just to complete the picture, the current ERFs(B-LIA to B-LIF) are mounted with PW-4062 and the delayed delivery of the 10 8Fs (B-LJA – BJJ)are going to be mounted with GEnx 2Bs.
And, the B-KAE to B-KAI are mounted with PW-4056.;)

therealredbaron

4th Oct 2010, 20:04

Hi,

If the two I met on 4th Oct in the morning are reading this please drop me a pm

Cheers :)

crwjerk

5th Oct 2010, 03:10

holdmetight is correct.

Your S/O hours are logged as P2X, only for the time you are in your seat.
These hours don't count for anything really, other than total time. But you don't need to worry about that anymore! All you need to be a JFO is to have been an S/O, as i mentioned before.
DEFO need 1000 hours turbine or whatever it is, not cadets. Some of them have had a very hard time believe me.
Once you start real flying, then you log P1 Under Supervision, and P2, depending on who flies the sector. That's when you start counting your hours for the ATPL and Relief Requirements. ( So i remember )

NightFlightsAreMagic

5th Oct 2010, 06:35

Hi Guys,

Yesterday I got a call. I'll have part II and III on the 10th and 11th of November. If somebody else will do his tests on these days, send me a pm.

@DDobinpilot: Don't worry too much about the reasoning test. I found - probably like everybody - the beginning of the test very simple, the middle OK, and the last questions were just horrible. I don't think you need to have the last ones right. I even didn't solve the last 2 or 3. I took the time needed for those last ones to make sure I got as many as possible other questions right.

A question about the math-test. Can you skip a question and then come back to it later on in the exercise?

Blue skies, tailwinds, happy landings,

NFAM

CXGE90

5th Oct 2010, 07:40

@NightFlightsAreMagic (http://www.pprune.org/members/339565-nightflightsaremagic)

Yes yo ucan skip questions on the numeracy test. They are not in order of difficulty so it is a good idea to skip ahead instead of wasting time on the more difficult ones.

Em773ER

5th Oct 2010, 09:11

thanks holdmetight and crwjerk! answers a lot of questions in my head cheers :ok:

sorry to keep going, I have some more questions:

out of curiosity, do any (if not all) CX pilots (S/Os, F/Os, Captains) operate both PAX and cargo fleet?, as mentioned in previous posts some S/Os operate cargo fleets, just wondering if its something common.

I heard somewhere that S/Os actually get to land the aircraft sometimes, is this by any chance true or just BS?

Are they still doing the 3 year instructor course or is it just the long course and short course now?

Since the training is in Australia do "recent cadets" have to do both CASA and HK exams? or just HK?... reason I ask this is because a previous batch of cadets (who are now instructors at FTA) had to go through the gruelling process of doing Australian air law after their training, as I understand HK air law is based on the english law?

Is it just an expectation for cadets to get at least 90% or is it an actual requirement to pass according to CX standards? I hear it a lot but i'm not sure if that's what's required.

Does anyone know much about Cathays escape routes? if they even still do them?

do CX have an online roster system where crew can manage/swap/bid trips?

is there a time limit on how long individual pilots can sleep?, for example the HK to New York route which is about 16 hours, is there like an equal sleep policy with CX or do pilots just suss it out and sleep whenever they feel like it?

Sorry for all these questions everyone :uhoh:, just trying to be informed as much as I can and maybe someone out there might be thinking the same thing.

Thanks in advance!! :ok:

SloppyJoe

5th Oct 2010, 09:27

If they are 747-400 pilots yes they fly the freighter. If they are 777 or A340 or A330 pilots no they do not fly the freighter as the only freighters are 747s.

It is BS SOs never ever land.

Don't know but doubt it as the deal was they get housing I believe after being instructors in ADL.

Think you just do HKCAD exams but not 100% sure.

If you pass you pass.

Yes there is a request and swap system online.

Not a democracy, what the captain wants is what happens. That being said it is rare to go on a flight where it is not shared equally as most of them are not p***ks but they are out there.

holdmetight

5th Oct 2010, 10:30

Since the training is in Australia do "recent cadets" have to do both CASA and HK exams? or just HK?... reason I ask this is because a previous batch of cadets (who are now instructors at FTA) had to go through the gruelling process of doing Australian air law after their training, as I understand HK air law is based on the english law?

Cadets nowadays only do HKTECH and HKATPL ground school exams. I have never heard of any cadet course being asked to do any Australian exams, apart from the BAK which is a prerequisite for the CASA GFPT.

Is it just an expectation for cadets to get at least 90% or is it an actual requirement to pass according to CX standards? I hear it a lot but i'm not sure if that's what's required.

SloppyJoe is obviously right, that's the way it is with any job out there. Cathay, though, will try to get you to work harder by saying that their cadets usually get a 90% average. Which is probably true but they aren't saying that because they will not hire you if you don't get 90%. Hope you get my drift.

Does anyone know much about Cathays escape routes? if they even still do them?

What do you mean by an escape route? Do you mean the set of published routes that pilots use to get a damaged aircraft away from hazardous terrain?

Em773ER

5th Oct 2010, 13:35

thanks sloppyjoe and holdmetight! :D

and yeah that's correct HMT, know much about these escape routes?

Cheers

SW1

5th Oct 2010, 13:43

Engine Out SIDs are normally published in the companys part B4 manual. For every runway at every airport, companies usually establish their own set of escape procedures as you put it. ATC normally are not aware of these as they can differ from the published missed approach. Normally it is recommended to turn towards the lowest Minimum sector altitude. In HKIAs case, it would be towards the South where MSA is around 3300 feet as opposed to 4000 to the north. Hope that helps. It would be very difficuly to obtain Cathays B4 manual anyway...

holdmetight

5th Oct 2010, 13:51

know much about these escape routes?

I'm afraid I don't know very much about these routes...

All I know is that most airlines flying over mountainous terrain should have published escape routes in their operation manuals. In the event of a depressurization, engine failure or anything that could jeopardize flying safety, the escape route can provide pilots with a list of routes they can use to navigate the aircraft past the mountains and towards an available/usable aerodrome. I haven't seen an escape route map myself, but I'm guessing it would contain a wealth of information including escape route lengths, magnetic headings, enroute MSAs, navaids and aerodromes etc.

flybat83

5th Oct 2010, 14:09

Hi Everyone,

Anybody going to stage 2 in HK on Oct 27th? I'll be there and it would be great to get in touch with anyone else due to be there too. Feel free to PM me.

Thanks!

crwjerk

5th Oct 2010, 14:17

OK my turn........:8
RE: Resting on a long haul...... Captain will arrange rest time with his relief, F/O will arrange rest with the S/O, ( normally) Sometimes, both F/O's will be relief qualified and the rest becomes a bit more flexible. Can get a bit complicated depending on where the Crew is based. May have all, none, or half based somewhere other than HK.

I would SUSPECT ( cos i don't know) that the Instructor course thing that has now been canned, would have been the reason those guys did the AUS Air law. Nobody else had to do it I believe. Just a hunch.

The 90% Pass mark is the HKCAD's pass mark that you must get to pass the exams. Don't worry. You'll have the answers before you go in ......:oh:

Escape routes are very much a part of CX's operation. If you haven't got the chart out and studying it when you're in an area that it applies, you should not be operating the aeroplane. They are quite complex ( some more than others) and require discussion. Unless of course you're a slacker and just like staring out the window at 23000 ft mountains whooshing by.
They are quite often programmed into the Secondary Flight plan ( Airbus) or Route 2 ( 777 and 747 ). Briefly, you'll have a minimum height you can descend to, based on Jeppesen Minimum altitudes, and there's usually 2000 or 3000 feet added to it, depending on terrain height. I'm not gonna pull out my books cos it's too detailed for what you need to know right now. If the hills are too high, an escape route will be devised.

Hope this helps.