Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme

[VFE]

Thanks EM773ER. Are there now 22 instead of 21 (as quoted on their website)?

Are all the CX with RB211-524 G/H-T rated at 60'000lb? I've got figures from RR of 58000lb - 60600lb?

Do the interviewers really grill candidates on this type of stuff? It's more of a google memory test than anything more weighty IMHO. Planespotters must have a field day!

VFE.

[KPHL]

this is what I found and used for the 747's

21 747-400: Either 4 PW 4052 rated at 50,000 or 4 RB211-524 H/T at 60,000
6 747-400F:RB211-524 H/T at 60,000 pounds per engine
6 747-400ERF: 4 PW 4062 rated at 62,000 pounds per engine
12 747-400BCF: RB211-524 H/T at 60,000 pounds per engine

[lost&found]

Have NO gurantee of a job at the end of having invested their thousands


Just to let you know, you are not guaranteed a job at CX when you get accepted to the course either.... i have heard of guys being failed on the final day in Adelaide! Ouch, a year in Adelaide with nothing to show for it.

[SMOC]

RB211-524......

G - rated 58,000
H - rated 60,600
T - Trent turbine mod (reduced EGT & SFC improvement).

All engines currently G rated with the Trent modification.

[Mrs Bernoulli]

This is such a nest for Communist bull****.

As this forum should be available to pilots who can share experiences as adults and mature humans.

I have applied for a position in CX because I want a career in this company. So of course I am willing to start at the bottom.

I will be leaving my previous company where I am employed as captain on a north european airline with +2000 hrs, because this seems attractive to ME. Who can say what I need in T/C, if it´s acceptable to ME then I will take it. But first after a successful interview. Since this bull****-website has lost it´s purpose, I will never try to get some information from here again.

Here´s a tip for all forum visitors: This is a great website where you can sit and debate and practice your political ambitions, but if you want to share or absorb professional pilot experiences, LEAVE IMMEDIATELY.

[Em773ER]

I have applied for a position in CX because I want a career in this company. So of course I am willing to start at the bottom.

what position did you apply for? baggage handling?. hey congratulations on that, you can definitely work your way up to the flight deck :) if you applied for the cadetship, then you won't be sitting in that left seat again for a very long time.

I will be leaving my previous company where I am employed as captain on a north european airline with +2000 hrs, because this seems attractive to ME. Who can say what I need in T/C, if it´s acceptable to ME then I will take it. But first after a successful interview. Since this bull****-website has lost it´s purpose, I will never try to get some information from here again.

Nobody asked you to ask for help buddy, but hey if you make an informed decision, no one is going to attack you. That said, with this kind of attitude, its likely you will be looked down upon by your potential future colleagues. No one asked you to stay on pprune.

Here´s a tip for all forum visitors: This is a great website where you can sit and debate and practice your political ambitions, but if you want to share or absorb professional pilot experiences, LEAVE IMMEDIATELY.

Believe it or not but you just contributed your own political ambitions, I find this humorous as it is hypocritical of you. Here's a tip for all forum visitors: This is a great website where you can sit and laugh at the likes of Mrs Bernoulli making a fool of themself :ok:

[VFE]

Many thanks KPHL and SMOC! Useful and hard to locate info there!

Another question I have is:

Does anyone know much about the 12 week course (for those with +1500hrs). Ie; what aircraft, flight content and whether this is still part of the selection process?

Thanks again,

VFE.

PS: If anyone here has been through the 12 week course and can pass on any useful information regarding their interviews and experiences I would really appreciate it if they could PM me! :)

[Mrs Bernoulli]

As I said, this community isn´t for the ones who actually have a job to talk about, I see that now. As grown-ups we should be able to have decent conversations regarding our work situations. The internet is and will always be infested by characters who can´t talk for themselves in the real world, so they spew it out over the world anonymously.

That said, good luck to all of you and don´t listen to this bull**** website.

[Em773ER]

Mrs Bernoulli :=

Yeh i'm a kid with not even a CPL, but what are you calling the professional pilots who are also adults, that are on this forum? are they immature and full of bull$hit like you imply?. I'm sorry mate but if you want to have a cry about how pprune has changed, go talk to the moderators or whoever you have to talk to. This forum is for people to discuss opinions and different issues. If you don't agree with the posts, or dislike the posts, fair enough, that is no reason to insult everyone one on this forum (or the entire pprune). Quite frankly I don't like your arrogant attitude, there are some higher ups (to the airline you hope to work for) in this thread that you could show some respect to... :ugh:

VFE

pm Mr Fusion and ask for his/her gouge on the transition course interviews, it could be helpful to your questions.

[ixg888]

hi guys i backread a lot in our very helpful forum and I have had a lot of useful info.. i got invited for an interview this june and I hope anyone who have been through the stage 1 interview to give me some more info to read and look upon. I don't want to be shabby and I really want to get into this program.

I only have 30 hrs of flight time in cessna 152.. and i really hope i can train at fta.. please pm me for useful guidance.

cheers!

[cx_773er]

Hey guys,
so I came across this piece of information the other day:

CX do require you to sign a 6 year non-binding bond with them, so you will have to work for them for 6 years or else they can ask u to pay them back the training cost, but it is non-binding as it is not legal to have a binding contract in Hong Kong, so you can look at it as there are no bond if u want.



I am so confused, can someone please once and for all clear up the situation with this whole bond....

What is the no. of years you are bonded to Cathay?
How exactly does this bond work?
If you decide to walk before the set number of years can Cathay actually make you pay it back and how?
Please keep debates about ohh if you leave early you wont have the experience etc to apply elsewhere as I already know that and that is not the point I am trying to figure find out here. I just want to know how the whole thing is set up!

Cheers

[ETOPS240]

Once again, EM773failed won't shut up.

Now, we know you failed to make it. That's fine. You've said your piece, now piss off. You have nothing to contribute to this thread. You know very little about the deal, but worst, is that you, with bugger all experience as a pilot (and clearly as a human) think you can talk the deal down.

Due to your failure, you're bitter enough to pretend you know better than those who rejected you. Don't be an idiot. Just come back at a later date, and let everyone know where you are, and we'll do a thorough analysis against the CX cadet programme.

Like I've said before, I'm all for the retention of the previous contract, but my god, would those who've said their bit just bugger off, and let those who want to ask direct questions about the scheme do so, and let them be answered without the utter morons on this thread who think that they'll achieve anything by berating the system. You won't, and you know as such; particularly EMI'llneverseeawidebodyER, as you're position makes your comments utterly laughable. Why don't you go and fail somewhere else.

Grow up.

[Em773ER]

Not necessary to do this (read if you want, you dont have to), but I don't want to make enemies nor do I want to continue to make a fool of myself. I would like to apologise to all the people on this forum for my recent childish behaviour (more recently, insulting Mrs Bernoulli). It has been raised to my attention that I have been getting out of hand with my posts, berating the scheme unnecessarily and insulting those above me who have more flying experience than I have life experience. I am just a kid, learning everyday, and I will not repeat the same mistakes in the future. The best I can do is correct the mistakes I've made and take advice from those above me, and offer information when I'm in the position to give it. So to those with questions regarding the scheme, there are plenty of people here who have information, and willing to provide, so you can make informed decisions. The debates have gone long enough, and the shooting downs have also gone long enough. The cadetship is there, nothing we can do about it, but offer help and those who want to take it can take it, those who don't want it can go their separate ways. I hope we all have an appreciation for the different opinions we have, and different beliefs. This is professional pilot rumour network, whether you are one or hope to be one, a professional demeanour must be shown, and I haven't been showing that. Good luck to everyone, tailwinds and happy landings. :ok:

[ChinaBeached]

Just as constructive issues were being discussed it ploughs back down again. It seems "some animals are more equal than others".

My arguement us against the misrepresentative rubbish and just plain lazy & ignorant questions that are posted here. Both are indicative of the standard of applicant CX now appeals to. The level of response (from the likes of myself admittedly) comes from the exact experience, hard work, "hard yards" & effort that is mocked by this entire CPP / iCadet scheme and many applicants as well as present iCadets.

Admittedly some of the same have come from the other side of the arguement.

Too many here only only want the answers they want to hear and fight tooth & nail from an unintelligent view point ("world's most sophisticated aircraft under the protection of superb ATC"!.... what a joke!)

Both arguments should be permitted but with that comes the realisation that others will disagree. Like I wrote before, I'm happy for a constructive difference of opinions BUT come at me & all that I've worked for & my mates at CX with utter fictional dribble, ridicule & uneducated, misinformed, self appointed omniscient made-up atrempts to defend a stance then I will respond.

"If" we all stood together, turned down this AND other bull$hit scams out their degrading our profession then WE ALL would benefit. I know, it's never happened in aviation that I'm aware of because of too many "ME FIRST, SCREW EVERYONE ELSE" attitudes so prevalent above. Or the perceived "need it all NOW & bugger the long term consequences". I'd pay to see how long that attitude lasted on a flightdeck with lanyard wearing AOA Capts & FO's!!

For some (HK nationals) this is a better package due the HKPA - but borne from the bastardised use of the Racial Discrimination Ordinance. (How many know about that, the AOA's stance & how management used it to LOWER the terms & conditions as such?) And if pilots hadn't of begun to stay away from the original CPP package then this HKPA would have not been introduced at all. "We" spoke with our feet & a better offer was presented out of necessity. Fact.

You want your opinion heard then allow the others the same.

PS: bonding for training is illegal in HK. Hence CX have deliberately & sneakily tarted it up as a "loan". As such a loan can be forcibly repayed. Like the RDO, CX found a means away from the original intent to screw & manipulate it to create a favorable outcome for those in CX management lining their own pockets.

[slotsdown]

It seems like the senior blokes are slowly grasping the fact that no matter how hard they try to stop the aspirant cpp interns. It's not going to change the wannabes views.

To Mrs Bernoulli, nobody cares that you view this forum as some political ambition, or what, what.

Like I've written before, whether you like it or not, they are plenty more people who will join this CPP:sad:

[Cpt. Underpants]

Like I've written before, whether you like it or not, they are plenty more people who will join this CPP

Precisely where you're wrong. >90% of "applicants" deep six the whole idea after they've been to HKG and taken a look.

It's a sham.

[VFE]

At the risk of inviting a comedian.... could any fine soul define the role of 2nd Officer at Cathay please? Precisely what tasks they carry out before, during and after flight. Walk around? Cruise fuel log, ATC liason, nav log, wx avoidance, liase with CC and pax... etc? Paperwork assessments to be completed after each trip during line training??

Many thanks!

*Cringes*

VFE.

[uspilot]

No walk around....also add making the bunk...

[Em773ER]

This was posted a while ago.

Free File Hosting - Upload files or images for free - Hide My Ass! (http://hidemyass.com/files/NYTA6/)

I doubt this is how SOs are treated but it should be good enough for info regarding SO duties and what not.

[Silent Running]

VFE at the risk of incoming from the vociferous minority here's the view from a CX LS driver

Turn up on time - for that, read early and properly rested

Be actively involved in the pre-flight planning - you are a full member of the crew and despite what some may think, your input IS valuable

Ensure the docs bag reaches the a/c with all the relevant paperwork and paraphernalia for the flight

Listen to the Capt's review of the maintenance log - again you are a full crew member

Usually, you will be expected to carry out the flight-deck safety/preparation check (Cb's, PA, Security, equipment etc)

Yes, it's expected that you'll prepare the bunks, although this is secondary to the operational pre-flight duties (some alternative initiatives are being explored such as getting the cleaning teams to make the bunks, but don't hold your breath)

During the start, departure, descent and arrival phases, active monitoring of the operation is required

During the cruise normally expect to assume PM duties - CFP, R/T comms and maintain situational awareness which includes anticipating actions for unexpected contingencies.

If you're in the seat with the Capt you have the opportunity to act as PF although this is clearly limited to managing the autopilot

Post flight - assist with tidying up the paperwork, charts etc and be responsible for ensuring the docs are returned to dispatch.

Return home and enjoy a long block of days off before repeating the process

I guess its not a particularly rewarding existence but if you can live with it on the rather abysmal terms being currently offered...

[quadspeed]

This seems to cover it pretty good.

http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour-wannabes/378978-cathay-pacific-cadet-pilot-programme-112.html#post6278383

[KPHL]

what seat does the S/O take?

Does it depend on whos taking the break, as in captain is taking a break, S/O takes left seat and visa vera?

[VFE]

Silent Running,

Many thanks for your brave reply! In your experience, are the opportunities to act as PF alongside the captain particularly common? Can SO's log any night flying as part of the requirements for unfreezing their ATPL if they are PF alongside the captain?

Thanks again,

*flak jackets back on*

VFE.

[Silent Running]

KPHL - Correct, seat occupied is as you described

VFE - All time as S/O in the seat is logged as P2X (cruise pilot rating) which counts at 50% rate toward licensing requirements.

...not sure about the night time issue, logic would dictate only time acting as PF would be acceptable, but when has logic had much to do with licensing!

Consider this though... night flying under FMC managed autopilot control hardly constitutes true night flying as required by FAA CAA or CAD licensing rules.

Maybe someone else has a clearer knowledge of the current night requirements for licensing and can assist.

SR

[ChinaBeached]

Here is another thread on the SO situation / package, from present CX pilots:

http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/452842-old-t-c-compared-new-ones-second-officers.html

[ChinaBeached]

...and another more promising:

http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour-wannabes/453003-international-cadet-scheme-dying-welcome-back-expat-conditions.html

IF ONLY YOU GUYS COULD SEE THE BIGGER PICTURE, SHOW THE SLIGHTEST BIT OF UNITY, PATIENCE AND REAP THE REWARDS!

(Which is nothing other than what we should receive anyway....!)

With Emirates and Etihad's HUGE fleet expansion plans they are sending out roadshows all over the globe: including HK in the next few weeks. They are grabbing almost any pilot with "close to" their minimum requirements for DEFO positions, creating a hole for lesser experienced guys: yourselves.

Chinese carriers (regional and international) are very much the same with their recruitment needs.

Read what Slosar, the CX CEO is quoted as saying! It can't get anymore obvious than that. Don't sell yourself, your future or your industry out when with the slightest amount of patience will reap rewards more than double what the present offer is.

John Slosar: "One problem facing Cathay is the chronic pilot shortage, he said. "We trained 400 local people to be pilots over the last 15 to 20 years, about 50 to 70 now a year. It is our plan to do more but we will have to do it step by step. Hong Kong doesn't have a military, so we have to train most of them ourselves," he said.

"But it's a costly enterprise. Training a pilot costs about HK$1 million just to get them up to be a second officer. It's quite a commitment, but probably [U]it won't cover all of our growth requirements so we will source pilots elsewhere as well," he said."

(Highlighting done by me)

Non-bonded CX cadets, mainly HK nationals, are leaving CX for HK Airlines & other airlines due better Command potential and conditions. This "forgivable loan" (BOND!) prevents you from doing the same. What does that tell you?

[VFE]

Thanks Silent Running!

Does anyone have any opinions on Discovery Bay? Some reasonable single/double bed apartments there for around 17'000HKD/month. Not particularly bothered about living on the main island....

Regards,

VFE.

[GTC58]

goto Hong Kong Property and Apartment, for Rent and for Sale - Hong Kong Realty (http://www.hongkonghomes.com)

goto property search, select the area you prefer or for db --> the outlying islands district ----> discovery bay

and search for yourself.

[VFE]

Thanks GTC58, but I've already looked and know what's on offer, I was just wondering if anyone here has any views on DB?

Regards,

VFE.

[simly]

Hi guys i am working in the aircraft maintenance industry, and i have attended an A320 engineer's type rating course, will they expect a lot from me in terms of aircraft systems & Engines during the interview?

[cx_773er]

Hi,
does anyone know how hard the: 'recognise sequences in patterns' test is at stage 4? Are these sequences based on diagrams or numerical sequences? Can much prep be done for it and if so does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks!

[Krashman]

Hey everyone,

I recently got an invitation email to an initial interview with CX. Any good interview prep books out there specific to CX? I'm reading through ACE prep book. Any suggestions would be fantastic!

Also this 'forgivable loan' in the interview package is a bit confusing. Anyone got info on how it works for someone doing 'Transition training'?

Cheers

[VFE]

I heard that CX took delivery of another 777-300 this week - can anyone confirm this and that is was definately the -ER?

Many thanks,

VFE.

[Voiceofreason]

All details of orders are on the CX website, so you can see we only order the ER version.

Krashman - PM me and we can swap notes and try and work it all out!

[momomomo]

Krashman,
Are you international candidate? When did you submit the form?

[aile_striker]

Hi guys!

I just got a call from CX to do the Stage 1 assessment later this month. It seems like the procedures have changed quite a lot from the previous posts. Does anyone know the latest selection procedure?

Right now they start off with job knowledge test, reasoning test, personality test, general + technical interview.

felt like the old stage 1 and 2 combined

[sonsal]

this is stage 1 procedure, for stage 2 you'll have group excercise, flight planning, maths test, wombat or aptitude test and interview......must say that CX have hell lot of tests for selection for the crap pay and forgivable loan.....:ugh:

[beedbeed123]

does anyone know wt is the aviation mathematics test is about in stage 2 ? It used to be named Numeric test but now its called aviaiton mathematics test, so I reckon its not the same one ?

[YC-W]

Hi all, just wondering if you do not hold any Flying Licence, do you still have to bring Medical Certificate with you to the Stage 1 interview?

[FL123]

hello to everyone,

I have applied at CX for second officer post, but I am unable to update my details. Each time I log in it says the service is temporarily unavailable and please contact on this no............ I also tried calling that number but no response.
Has anyone gone through this problem??
Need help,
thanks in advance,

FL123

[VFE]

What licence do cadets gain on completion in Adelaide?

Also, if anyone here could shed some light on the content of the 12 week transition training course it would be gratefully recieved.

Thanks,

VFE.

[ixg888]

anyone going on the 14 th for the stage 1 interview? .. pm me. lets swap notes.

[Krashman]

Momomomo

Krashman,
Are you international candidate? When did you submit the form?


Yes I am an international applicant. I've had a profile CX HR for several years. I've tried to constantly update it every six months or so. Sometimes I've been early sometimes late.

[nitro57]

Just wondering how long most waited from submitting their applications until they heard anything back?

[Dangerman12]

Hey guys,

Just a quick question to anyone who has previously attended the initial interview. They say 'please bring the original and a photocopy of the following documents along to the interview'. Within this list they mention all logbooks. Do they actually want a photocopy of the whole logbook......every single page or just the last few maybe??

Hopefully someone can shed some light on this cause I'll have to do some major photocopying otherwise.

Thanks guys,

Dangerman

[Krashman]

Does anyone have a copy of 'Preparing for your cathay pacific interview' 11th edition that they would be interested in selling? Preferably on the North American continent.

[theCOMEDIAN]

Hey everyone,

I have my flight grading at FTA.

Any advice?

[MrCrawford]

welcome to FTA! Advance or basic grading?

[brisdude]

^^^^ There is such thing as ADVANCED "training" at FTA? :hmm:

[MrCrawford]

Nope, but they grade you on the Sim if you have hours. Advanced "Grading"

[dhps]

Hi guys,

Just wondered if anyone else was attending the Second Officer interview on the 7th July in London?!?

Thought maybe we could compare notes and stuff!!

[andrewnorris1987]

Hi guys,

I got a Sydney interview for SO 1st stage cadet ship with CX in July. Is anyone else out there attending around then?

Studying basic technical questions and researching HK, done about 15 hours dual and gone solo. From your experience, does anyone out there have any questions from stage 1 that have been asked recently?

That would be great help :)

[cosmoc]

G'day all
I'm trying to follow up my application with Cathay and was wondering whats the best way to go about this? Any emails and/or phone numbers would be great!

Thanks
cosmoc

[vvhatslife]

i will be in HK for the interview on the 15th

[Big_Browna]

Hi everyone,

I am also attending the Stage 1 interviews but in Auckland. Would be great if anyone could give some insight into the 1st stage so I have an idea of what to expect.

Thanks guys

[Jagdfalke]

I'm also attending the stage 1 interview in Auckland next month.

[WMIM]

When they ask about Cathay destinations during the interview, are they most concerned with their own destinations rather than the codeshare ones? The destinations with their own service are annotated with a ^ on the Cathay company website.

[eagle206]

Hi all,

I have been asked to attend the stage one process in AKL next month. Has anyone experienced the latest stage one process or have any insight as to what you can expect?

My invitation states there are four components.

Interview with both Personal and Technical Questions (45mins)

Technical multiple-choice Questionnaire (45mins)

Reasoning Test (45mins)

A Personality Assessment (30mins)

Any idea on what you can expect in each of these exercises would be fantastic. In partiuclar I am interested in the technical questions and the reasoning test, ie the type of question and what the best reference material out there is.

Thanks in advance.

[SpiritofMGL]

Big_Browna (http://www.pprune.org/members/360114-big_browna) and Eagle 206 when did you guys submit your application?

[Burger81]

Did anyone attend the assessment on Monday 13th June in London?

Burger81

[yogesh.dhumale]

hello friends i have been trying for cathay pacific cadet programme since 2008 and i have sent my application in the internet, whenever i try to update my application it says that my application is under process, i also heard that they have started a programme for ppl who have a cpl with low flying time i dont want 2 lose this oppurtunity if anyone can give me a phone number or any email it ll a big help

[thomas87]

hey try to mail them in this id "[email protected]"

[Jagdfalke]

Has anyone going to the AKL interview received any reading material (JKI Booklet?) yet?

@eagle206 - read the thread. There is a lot of good in-depth information concerning the interviews.

[ChinaBeached]

How many have read "The 49ers - The True Story" by John Warham?

If not, why?

If so, your thoughts considering the career and choices you are making now?

There are now 2 books that any aspiring pilot for CX should read: "Handling The Big Jets" by Davies and "The 49ers - The True Story" by John Warham.

How can you not know where the airline you seek to join is going if don't know where that airline has been? Past behaviour is the greatest and best indicator of future behaviour. Even CX use that technique in your interviews.

[tchanhk]

http://www.cathaypilotsunion.org/inthenews/SCMP12Oct08A.pdf

think its a bit of useful info cadet should take a look on the company culture and the 49ers episode

[SloppyJoe]

they asked me about it when I interviewed in 08.

What do you know about the 49ers?

What do you think?

How should the company have acted in this matter in your opinion?

Its not all about what engines does this aircraft have blah blah blah.

[yogesh.dhumale]

thnx a lot

[Hamid_27]

Hi all,

I have been invited for an Interview on the 7th July in London, anyone else got the invite?

@dhps, what is your experience level:E?


(UK FATPL CPL IR MCC JOC 200 hours.:sad:, low hour bashing suit *on*)


Hamid_27

[ixg888]

hi guys. just had my initial interview last june 14 and still awaiting a response from CX. but upon checking my status on the cx website this is what i saw.

We are unable to accept your application within a 12 month period of your previous application. If you wish to re-apply for the Cadet Pilot Programme, please do so at the appropriate time.

does it mean i failed my application?

[captain.weird]

Hi there,

So there have been selections taken in different parts of the worlds. Can't some guys share their experience? We have to put this topic in life again!!

CW

[airburkina]

No it doesnt mean your out. Its automatic, and you will get a mail/call. even if you fail. So just wait for the mail/call.

The result can take between 1 - 10 weeks, depending. So just continue your journey, and consider it a bonus if your invited for st 2. I wish you the best of luck!

I was contacted after around 8 weeks, and didnt pass unfourt. So, I waited 10 months, and then I could apply again, wich I have done.

Ha anyone on this thread been to interview - stage1 twice?

Good day!

[ixg888]

thank you so much for your reply. Get it or not I will still continue my flight training and get me sharper. Even if I fail I will still continue applying. I really love CX and even if they dont accept me. I'll still never let go of the dream.

[bushbum]

How can you love Cathay, what do you really know about it? and don't tell us how nice they are to be a passenger on. If you just want to fly a big jet just say so. And never mind the fact you are undercutting and undermining what used to be a career job, that is what you should love!

[m11m]

Hello everyone, just wondering if there is a cut-off-age for this particular programme? I turned 31 recently and would like to apply.

[airburkina]

31 is good. You might have advantages in experience. When I was at st1 we were 8, and 2 were invited for st2, both above 30.

Go for it!

[busdriver2010]

anyone for flight grading this coming July?

[Flight100]

How are people trying to get a job at Cathay undermining the career? Honestly, what should we know about Cathay that will make us not want to work there? That they are like all airlines? That they won't do everything that the pilots want? How bad can it really be? Please educate us.

[ixg888]

I just received the most dreaded news I ever had in my life. I failed at my first attempt to join CX never thought it would hurt this bad. oh well, im still alive eh.. and cx will always be there.

cheers! life goes on.

[airburkina]

Sorry to hear. Been there done that, and most have unfourt. But do not worry, look forward to you next try instead, then you know what to prepare on even more. I heard from a cadet at CX that many have applied atleast twice, so use this year to do something that might be an advantage for next app. If you dont have a PPL, start to take lessons i.e.

Good luck next time! Me myself I hope to get a new shot! Dont loose the hope :ok: Failure can be good too, we all learn from it.

[ixg888]

mate, cx aint goin anywhere. LOL.. you are right I have yet get my PPL I only have like 30 hours under my belt.. I have yet to learn a lot.. I maybe at an old age.. but my flying experience is infant at this stage.. 10 months to reapply isn't that long. who knows? maybe on my next attempt I'm on the advance entry already. pprune aint going anywhere and I can't wait for the day comes when I ask it here how is it, to go to the flight grading.. that would be a blast!

to all those who got accepted congratulations and hope to fly with you someday!

blue skies!

[m11m]

oh great thanks for the encouragement but the problem is ... i dont have any flying exp. :{

[Aquafina1]

Here's How I see it.

I was at selection in LON on Friday last and received this salary information from the HR person.

This is for SO, first year;

Basic Salary: HK$ 422,040 per annum.

Quote:
"In addition, Second Officers are eligible for hourly duty pay and is calculated on 84 credit hours per month equating to HK$ 42,204 per annum.

Annual Bonus (13th Month Salary)
I make this; basic/12 = 422,040/12 = HK$ 35,170.

Hong Kong Allowance:
HK$ 10,000 per month = HK$ 120,000 per annum.

Hong Kong Salaries Tax:
Quote:
"Salaries tax in HK at present is not more than 17% of the employee's gross emoluments. Tax is applicable to all cash allowances provided.

So, for the first year you earn:

422,040
42,204
35,170
+120,000 = HK$ 619,414 per annum.

Tax of 17% on 619,414 = 105,300.
Therefore net salary = HK$ 514,113 per annum or, £41,117 or, 46,092E or, US$ 66,014 per annum.

I may have made some mistake(s), please feel free to point them out!

By the way there are also additional benefits available for people with children, the above figures are for; a single person, Hong Kong based, second officer for the first full year of employment as such.

[Cpt. Underpants]

The "Annual Bonus" is "Annual DISCRETIONARY Bonus" and is paid at the behest of the company.

Do not count it as part of the package. It has been denied in the past - and is only payable to Hong Kong based employees - when it's paid, that is.

[btfms]

I am just wondering if you fail at Stage 2 or 3, will you be allowed to go straight to the same stage when you reapply or have to go through the whole thing all over again?? Thank you!

[Koyo]

For those that think PPL or CPL makes a difference, it doesn't. When I did it in 2008, prior to iCadet scheme, someone with zero experience got in. I got a PPL with 130 hours and another guy had a CPL and instructor hours and both of us failed at Stage 2. While a PPL might help with flight grading, you still have to pass the tests and interviews first.

Did they modify the Stage contents after iCadet was introduced? For example, do you still have to do a little speech about CX Cadet at Stage 1?

[404 Titan]

Aquafina1
I may have made some mistake(s), please feel free to point them out!
You have made some huge mistakes.

HK$422040 SO annual salary
HK$ 35170 Annual Discretionary Bonus (If Paid)
HK$ 27642 Hourly Duty Pay based on 84 hrs/month less 3 weeks annual leave
HK$120000 Hong Kong Pilot Allowance
HK$604852 Total income
HK$108000 Less basic tax free threshold
HK$496852 Taxable income

Tax calculation for first year of service.

HK$ 800 First 40000 @ 2%
HK$ 2800 Next 40000 @ 7%
HK$ 4800 Next 40000 @ 12%
HK$64065 Remaining 376852 @ 17%
HK$72465 Total Tax (Based on Annual Discretionary Bonus being paid)

HK$66486 Total Tax (No Annual Discretionary Bonus)

In you first year of employment in Hong Kong you also need to budget for Provisional Tax, i.e. one year’s tax in advance. Therefore you need to double the above tax figures for your first tax bill.

HK$144930 Total Tax (ADB Paid) = 34.3% of your monthly salary.
HK$132972 Total Tax (No ADB Paid) = 31.5% of your monthly salary.

This is a higher tax burden in your first year of service than most western countries.

Hong Kong Taxation Scales (http://www.ird.gov.hk/eng/pdf/pam61e.pdf)

[Burger81]

Aquafina1, 404 Titan,

From the recent guys who have been for the stage 1 assessments, there is no mention of the forgiveable loan now. Has this part of the T&C been withdrawn? For an advanced or transistion programme SO, surely if this is still being offered, it would provide a huge assistance in the first year tax burden and getting settled in Hong Kong??

Aquafina1, which programme were you interviewing/being assessed for?

Good Luck

Burger81

[mochiman]

.....don't forget the 15.5% on top of your basic salary that goes to the "Mandatory Provident Fund". You don't have to contribute to this fund as such and it doesn't attract tax.

MM

[404 Titan]

Burger81

I don’t know to tell you the truth. It may have just dawned on the company that a “forgivable loan” once forgiven is 100% taxable, i.e. the whole HK$1.1M by the IRD.

mochiman

As you can’t take the 15.5% company provident fund contributions in cash it makes absolutely no difference to your monthly cash flow as a SO. The funds are locked away until you retire.
You don't have to contribute to this fund as such and it doesn't attract tax.
Rubbish. You must contribute from your own pocket either 5% or 10% of your monthly salary to your provident fund each month. Your contributions are taxed in your salaries tax each year by the IRD.

[mochiman]

Perhaps I should have clarified that it was an "additional benefit" and wasn't meant to be considered as part of your monthly cash flow. It wouldn't be the first "retirement benefit" to keep your money locked in.

Still better than a kick in the teeth.

MM

[paida]

hi, does anyone know if helicopter pilots stand a chance in getting into the CX cadet programme? and are there interviews in South Africa?

[Mr_Pilot]

What to expect from Cathay:

It was a long time ago I applied and I was in a much worse off place that I am now, so if you have just applied, be patient. The process for me took just over one year.

I did not make it all the way through, and am not disappointed. I would have like to worked for CX but was not happy about the pay they were offering, this came about because of personal circumstances current job and other issues (women).

Hopefully the following is something that you can all look through and appreciate as some information garnered through the trial and tribulation I endured. I loved the process and and used it for what it was, good practice.

The following is some info that I memorised and had on que cards to study and revise on top of the basic info they give you. It came in handy for me, and hopefully it may for you too. I will try and present it in chronological order with initial letter first then all subsequent information needed for initial and secondary interviews/selection then my 2 HKD’s worth.



Dear Mr_Pilot

With reference to your application to the Cathay Pacific Airways Second Officer, we confirm our conversation inviting you to an Initial Interview in XXX at XXXX on XXXX.

Venue: Cathay Pacific Office
XXXX
***Please continue to correspond with our Hong Kong office and only contact the XXXX office in the event of a cancellation on the day of your interview
XXXX

Kindly present the original and a photocopy of the following documents at the interview:

· Flying Licence, if applicable
· Medical Certificate applicable to above-mentioned Flying Licence
· All logbooks
· Results of PPL/CPL/ATPL theory examinations and proof of Multi-Engine Instrument Rating, if applicable
· Passport
· Education Qualifications including public exam results, high school certificates, university transcripts and certificate
· An update copy of your resume
· One passport size photograph with your name and application number on the reverse

Following this interview, shortlisted candidates will be invited to attend further assessments in Hong Kong. The necessary tickets on Cathay Pacific Airways and accommodation for the duration of the interview process will be provided. Kindly note that expenses will not be paid for attendance at the initial interview.

Enclosed is a confidential medical questionnaire which you are required to complete and submit at the interview in a sealed envelope, marked with your name and application number. An attachment entitled “Job Knowledge Information” is also included. This information should be studied in preparation for the 45 minute technical multiple-choice questionnaire.

If you have any queries, please contact XXXX

Yours sincerely

CX Office


**************************


Cathay Pacific Airways is pleased to invite you to attend our Second Officer Initial Selection in XXXX.

The process comprises of the following components:
- Interview with both Personal and Technical Questions (45mins)

(This is easy and should not pose a problem if consideration and preparation is done in accordance with the practice questions and you make up additional ones of your own)

- Technical multiple-choice Questionnaire (45mins)

So easy that it was not funny for someone with some flying experience – for those with none, you will need to study the book that they give you from the early turn of the century, I would recommend some addition basic reading too on Basic Aeronautical Knowledge, you should be able to fine enough online or go to a flying school and see if you can buy or borrow one, about 40 USD I would expect, or even half for a used one.

- Reasoning Test (45mins)

Again this was an absolute breeze, very much different to the QF boxes reasoning test, but matrix aligned reasoning of addition multiplication and substitution or rotation in picture format. I got a copy that some d1ckheads before me decided to write all over. I was happy to see they circled about 5 wrong. This is easy again if you look into your local library, or look up MENSA testing and do some practices to get the hang of what is required.

- A Personality Assessment (30mins)

I can not remember if I did do this, I don’t think I did. I honestly believe these are BS in the most part, but sometimes do keep the loons out. Hence maybe the reason I did not progress further than I did.


I did want to attach the basic letter of offered conditions here and will do so when I relearn how to do so via an outsorced HTML site. Basically it is 4 pages of notes, so the figures and fact are then public.



This is what you should prepare to know:


Approx 180,000 aircraft movements per year.
Just under 27 million pax per year.
1.8 million tonnes of freight.
90 million dollar revenue, 14 million profit.
19,000 core staff
27,000 in subsidiaries.

Founded 25/09/1946 by an American, Roy C Farrell, and Australian, Sydney H De Kranzow.

Major achievement in 1998 was achieving permission of the polar routing to NYC direct.

Swire group is the parent company and controlling intrest. They have a large stake in and control over many other businesses around asia, including – Air China, AC Cargo, Air Hong Kong, Dragon Air, etc.

Destinations:

Johanesburg
Adelaide
Brisbane
Cairns
Melbourne
Perth
Sydney
Auckland
Beijing
Shanghai
Taipai
Bahrain
Chenai
Dehli
Mumbai
Karachi
Jeddah
Ryadah
Colombo
Dubai
Paris
Frankfurt
Milan
Rome
Moscow
Amsterdam
London
Toronto
Vancover
Los Angeles
New York
San Fransisco
Denpesar
Jakata
Surabaya
Kula Lumpor
Penang
Cebu
Manilla
Singapore
Bangkok
Ho Chi Minh
Fuokoka
Nagoya
Osaka
Supporo
Tokyo
Seoul


Need to know: Hong Kong Lat Long: 22 deg 18 min 32 sec north. 113 deg 54 min 52 sec east.

Hong Kong: 95% ethnic Chinese – spoken language in my opinion is about 95% as well. Although you can get around speaking English it is about equivalent to living in Qubec city… although english is another official language people do treat you differently if you can not speak the language… although unlike the French Canadians I found the ethnic majority of Chinese to be very pleasant and accepting that I could not speak much of the language.

City consists of 7 million people.

New territories have been added. Know something about these.

Three goals of CX:
Safety first
Grow winning team
Socially and Environmentaly responsible

Base starting salary:

Approx 45,000 HKD refer to pictures for more official documentation and reasoning.

After expenses of living (housing, eating out, transport, bills and leisure expenses the take home pay after tax I calculated to be about 10,000HKD)

NB/ this is being frugal and living below my current standard of living. It is important to look for a place that you want to be happy living in when over there.


A/C and numbers:

Subject to change and I have found many varying sources from both official CX websites and documentation contradicting itself and other user posts here on prune.

120 currently online:

777-200 (5)
777-300 (12)
777-300ER (19)

747-400 (21)
747-400F (6)
747-400BCF (12)
747-400ECF (6)

A340-300 (11)

A330-300 (32)


AC on order: 90

777-300 (27)
747-8F (10)
A350-900 (32)
A330-300 (21)


Engines currently used on each AC:

777-200 T877
777-300 T884B
777-300ER GE90-115B

747-400 variants:

PW 4052
RB211-524

A340-300 CFM-56-564

A330-300 T772


You should know static or full thrust ratings for these engines, but will not post these as you need to know why the engines designators are what they are:

Ie. T877 is the Trent 8th series engine with 77,000 pound of thrust (from memory).

You need to know this if questioned.


NB// For anyone with previous flight experience; know your type and the speeds etc. Know what does what and why.

I unfortunately got asked some curly questions and was told to explain why certain aspects are used for certain periods in flight and why we do not change our speeds etc (company policy for us). But you will get asked to demonstrate the knowledge you have… not just regurgitate it.

Know your emergency procedures: (you should already) and more importantly think about the reasoning behind why.

Questions I was asked through various stages and prep’ed for:

 Name and identify the following AC and give reason to how you came to your choice. (best practice – go on airliners.net and have a look through there as there are multi-choice games where you can pick AC types, after a while you should form some distinction)
 What is the x-wind limit of current AC type, is this a demonstrated limit, what does demonstrated mean?
 This is the landing designated, wind is XX/XXX tell me x-wind and headwind components: I used the 60/45/30 method of 90/75/50 for my answering which seemed fine.
 What does a SO do? What would a likely roster be? How much time on and off do you expect to have?
 What AC do we operate?
 Where do we fly in Europe/Asia/Australasia/Japan/Middle East/Americas?
 What AC are on order?
 Why did you want to fly?
 What have you done towards getting your qualifications to fly?
 Why did it take you so long?
 Why did you choose your degree?
 What aspects did you enjoy most?
 Which aspect did you struggle with?
 What will you do if you don’t work for CX?
 How did you fund your PPL?
 How long did this take?
 Why did it take this long? Is this normal?
 When did you go solo?
 What other activities do you do?
 Why should we hire you?
 What would your friends say about you?
 What would ex bosses say about you?
 What role do you assume in teamwork?
 Are you a leader or follower? Why… justify your answer and give and example.
 Why did you choose aviation?
 How did you find out about the program?
 What is the differences b/n leading edge and trailing edge devices? What are the associated advantages of both.
 Why do we use flaps?
 Do we have nosewheel braking?
 What is the antiskid brake system… explain.
 What affect does G loading have on stall speeds… how is this calculated?
 Describe current job, boss, working environment.
 Tell me about CX.
 Who founded it.
 What was the first jet aircraft brought onto line?
 How did the idea for CX get started?
 Given a choice for AC type which would you choose and why?
 If you smelt alcohol on the Capt. Breath what would you do?
 Flight planned into sev turb what do you do?
 What is fly by wire and how does it work?
 Choosing between the A340 and 777 give reason for choice.
 Flex (derated) thrust… give three reasons for use.
 Define Vmcg Vmca Va V1 V2 at what height do you have to be one engine out at V2 what gradient is then expected? Gross and Net.
 What is the point of trim tanks, which AC have them?
 What engines does each plane operate?
 Why do we fly at high altitude?
 Rostered duty times? 5o 3off x 3 then 10 days rostered off. Normal pattern.
 3 reasons of why you wanted to become a pilot?
 What is the operating level of a 777?
 TOD calculations?
 Jet engine operations explain?
 How does a jet slow down? In air, and on ground?
 AC used at Parafield?
 Timings for each course at Parafield?
 Allowance paid while at Parafield?



Stage two acceptance letter:

Dear Mr_Pilot

Further to your application for the Cadet Pilot Programme and subsequent selection, we are pleased to advise you that you are shortlisted for the Stage 2 Interview.
We will inform you of the exact date of your interview in due course. Please contact us XXXXXXXXXXXXX if you have any queries.
Yours sincerely
Flight Crew Recruitment (Cadet Pilot)

Then…


Mr_Pilot

We hereby invite you to attend a Stage 2 Cadet Pilot Program Interview in Hong Kong on XXXXX.

Kindly provide the following information:

1) The airport you wish to use for departure and arrival; it must be a Cathay Pacific Airways on-line port and provide your name according to the passport.

2) Air passage will be provided to your spouse should he/she be interested in joining with you during the trip. Please provide copy of marriage certificate and passport details.

3) Current correspondence address and updated contact number for delivery of your tickets from Hong Kong (please provide physical address as FedEx does not deliver packages to Post Office Boxes).

4) Cathay Pacific will provide two to three nights' hotel accommodation only. The number of nights provided is determined by your flight schedule. You are welcome to extend your stay by arriving early or departing later at your own expense (please kindly arrange accommodation on your own), so please provide the travelling dates intended.

For entering Hong Kong, kindly visit the following web-site for visa enquiries:
The Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region - Immigration Department (http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/hkvisas.htm)

Any fines payable as a result of failure to have the correct travel documentation and/or Hong Kong visa at the time of travel ill be borne by the applicant.

Best Regards,

CX Cadet Program




Dear Mr_Pilot

SECOND OFFICER INITIAL INTERVIEW

Welcome to CX city, blah blah… Enclosed is a map of the surrounding areas for navigation. Access is strictly controlled, get your pass from downstairs in the main entrance.

Day 1:

Welcome brief:
Nothing to really say.

Interview:

Laid back and mostly informal – the process is varied, as some were interviewed by HR and a pilot where some were interviewed by just pilots it seemed. Know how to explain things about aviation if you are already a pilot, know timings and how these change with Longtitude and why. Know distances and timings of aircraft to fly between places.

Group exercise:

Scenario given where each member has 5 minutes to read a brief of what is involved and requested of them to choose a commander for space mission.

NB/ Each member is given different information for the selection. There are numerous applicants on the table in the middle, be sure to pick these up the examiners do not say anything and will not comment.

Use the board for working things out. Work together and divide tasks. They are looking to see you can work as part of a team. You then have to choose someone to present your decision and then answer each a question proposed by the interviewer.

How did you feel about the choice?
If you walked out for five minutes and came back, what would you change?
How did you think the group worked together?
What would you do differently?
Who was a leader?
Were they good?
What role do you think you played?
Was this more important or less important?
Etc.

Flight Planing exercise:

Given to a group of two you are given 10 minutes to digest an information package and prepare for a series of following questions?

NB/ you are given different information and should collaborate from the start. Ask to compare notes and make sure you both understand the additional differences.

Then you are given a series of scenarios at which you are asked to work both seperately and together.

At the end of the exercise you are required to write a report for management, into how and why you came to your decisions.

Mental Maths:

Seriously hard for some questions. Of absolute no real relevance to flying but more so conceptual equations like .9999 x 9999.9 x 1/9 = xxxxxxxxxx there is no multiple choice given for this, but you have to give a numerical answer. Horrible. I did okay I think as I have taught some of this crap maths, but find it provides no real benefit except for flight calculations or approximations in conceptualising data or timings.It may be good to revise again a math section on an IQ booklet if you have one, or again borrow one from the local library.

Harrison Test:

I like working with my hands.
I like being appreciated for my worth.
I like being paid a lot.
I like being autonomous.
I like talking others around to my point of view.
I like helping others.
I like teaching

Rank in order of importance.

Again, I feel like this is absolute BS and can not be studied for. I took this semi-seriously finishing about 17 questions in 13 minutes, at the end I was given a question that others were not (that I spoke to) saying to judge the relation of importance from highly like to dislike on areas of science math, being outdoors, etc etc.

Do not try and prep or manipulate as you should never try and fit into an organisation you are not designed for. Work for a company that want you for who you are otherwise you will end up being very unhappy. As I have tried and tested, changing my resume and profile to suit others.


Day 2:

Un/fortunately I did not pass and thus am unable to comment on any of the following, but I am sure there is some information on here for you to sift through.

Instead I got to go see the Big Budda via crystal cabin cable car – awesome and well worth the experience (although I don’t know about the management interview or medical having your balls felt up (– speaking to others), I guess that could have been just as enlightening!!! = - )

General Briefing:

English Language Test:

Medical Exam:

Uniform Measurement:

Management Interview:


Conclusion:

All in all I loved the experience that CX offered me. Speaking to my partner before we set off and after receiving the initial letter of consideration we were excited. However, with time and reading through posts and crunching the sums and life cost of moving, the excitement waned. However, the idea of a free trip was nice enough to push up the motivation levels again.

It is always good to feel loved and appreciated (god knows there are enough GA operators out there that would rather feed their dog than a working pilot). But I applied when I was not working, I then have moved on to a wonderful operator and do not want to leave unless I get something with more respect and money advancing my career towards and airline.

CX does provide this outcome for you. But I believe I came unstuck in the interview section for voicing my concerns over the pay package offered and that CX was now considered very much to be a seniority based airline. Interviewing with 1500+ hours I did not think I would have much trouble in adapting to the flight requirements and adjustment of an airline as I have done some GA time. Taking the package a s a whole would be a pay cut for me, and I would still be away from home the same amount. I have a lovely home and am able to live in a big city, in better conditions and location than anything near on offer in HK.

However, as one post beautifully put it, it does not matter if you have a million hours and 69 touch and goes on spaceship one, you are still going to get paid and treated the same as someone with no experience. You will not get promoted in front of these people and will not get recognition. This irritated me, and I made these concerns somewhat felt. In retrospect it was not the smartest thing to do. And ultimately may not have even been my reason for not being considered further.

If I was living in a Donga that I was four+ years ago on half my wage flying in the stinking heat and crap of just moving into GA, I would jump at this opportunity and not look back. It would maybe mean that I was even up for probationary first officer at this current time. However, I chose a different path. I am paid well, I am enjoying my life, and I have the ability to move and change my employer when I want – or when I am told by my boss or partner!

But I do wish everyone luck that does apply for this scheme. I do hope that you fly because you love it. I do hope you are going to be happy with your decision. I do hope that when things do pick up you get better conditions. I do hope that these conditions do not come until others that waited it out get them first, because I for one will be casting the first stone of annoyance if you think things will change. The bar has been set and it has been set low. As long as you are happy to live with this decision and raise kids etc in a local lifestyle mannar.

But I do hope that you realise what you can get paid somewhere else if you do wait it out.
I do hope you have read through all the pages previous and that you are happy in knowing that you may not fly for a while. I hope you like living in Hong Kong and realise what a life of an Airline pilot entails. It is not all glitz and Glamour, and if you are young and starry eyed, know very well, you will having nothing to look back on if you enter the program with no experience doing anything else.

Live within your means, and these will change. The flight crew you will be working with, are on 3-6 times as much money as you, and it is doubtful you will ever be able to accumulate as much money as these people. These will not be the people that you are able to make stable friendships and alliances as you are coming in on the local equivalent wage. Do not expect to eat at expat restaurants or get blind drunk in the Fong without worrying about where your next 70HKD are from. Although I hope you are able to find friends and make it all work out, I would think long and hard about leaving mates in whatever country you are that are happy to pay for a round and support you where you are on equal footing.

That being said I do know people that are in CX and are happy there. I guess once you are there and set up and established it may be alright as you hang out with other SO’s or expats, but again, not many people go there unless on a lot of money. And by a lot I mean more than twice what some of them get paid for doing the same thing in an equivalent first world country.

But judging from the postings and experience levels of people that came before, I felt somewhat embarrassed to apply for this scheme. Just as I would if someone with 500 hours applied and was hired for my job. Not to mention the proposed safety risks I would not like being undercut in pay.

I thank everyone for the postings they have helped put up as it has helped me make an informed and I believe balanced decision. CX do not care about you as an employer now as much about you as a number that can be incorporated into their system. I would love to be a number in this system, but the numbers being offered to me for this ‘opportunity’ are non-negotiable, and unfortunately a breaking point for many people.

All in all, the thing is I love my job, and still have room to grow in it. I am treated well and respected by my boss and colleagues. Hopefully with time and the growth in global economy again expansion or eventual retirement will force out more pilots, and the increased demand allows me to work locally for an operator that values the time and effort I have already invested in not only myself but aviation in general. This may be prudent to remember in that you are betting the next ten years of your life (6 years to probationary FO, then other 4 to accumulate enough hours to become competitive in a labour force for repatriation or to any other carrier re:P2X rating) against the concept that CX will improve your conditions above another upturn in the economy. And if this upturn occurs they will increase your wage to that of expatriated labour forces brought in ahead of you to ease any shortcomings? Again, I do not want to push my views on others as it is a decision for each persons circumstances, and if given the same thing a year ago I would have been a lot more humble and tried to suck up my pride. I want to let anyone out there that is aspiring to move onwards and upwards that although CX does offer something now that is good for some it is not always good for all. If you have the drive and passion for aviation it will still remain. I know people who love flying are now depressed and considering career moves away from aviation as they do not get to fly in being a SO. Just because you do not become a airline pilot now does not make you a failure in any means. There are a myriad of jobs out there and employers do look for people with the right attitude. Channel your passion to shaping the right stuff and you will be fine. :ok:

Good luck to all and I hope this helps someone out there as many before have helped and inspired me. ;)

MP

[captain.weird]

Thank you very much MP!

[ArmstrongLimit]

Any recent stage two invitations?

[tithybo]

Hye,

I just would like to correct some facts. The main change (which is enormous) is the housing allowance which now starts at 10,000 $HK per month, is taxable, and tops at 36,000 $HK when you are a senior captain.
The former housing allowance was around 80,000 $HK, even when a SO from what I've understood.
Your "regular" salary is not really changed, you are on the same scale.
The duty per diem has changed, it's now 10% of you salary.

So the other flight crew won't get 6 times more than you (I mean, i you compare yourself to another former SO), he will get definitely more (and a lot), but just be aware of the figure.

aloha

[crwjerk]

The duty per diem has changed, it's now 10% of you salary.
Only if you work 84 hours.

[SloppyJoe]

Rental allowance for a CN on the old terms is about HK$100K a month, when you make CN in around 14-18 years this will probably be more than your total package including the housing you get as is tied to the government rental index, something nothing in this new deal is. It will be a fight every time you try to increase it and will probably lose as they then have you getting up the seniority list and know it would be hard to start again elsewhere. This is not just a short term thing, it is your whole career and soon the HK$36K will be insignificant especially by the time you start to get that amount if you are joining now. The reason the CN expat rental is high is because that is what a CN has to spend to live in a place he would expect to be able to with his family if he were a CN with a legacy carrier in his home country. Joining on the new deal it is very unlikely that you will ever be able to live in a house, ever.

[Sparcky]

Just wondering im in the uk would they accept my application and if so do you think they would interview me here i know they fly from heathrow

[SloppyJoe]

Don't be a lazy ba:mad:rd and at least read their website. It answers your first question. Read maybe two pages of this thread if your too lazy to read the whole thing and it answers your second. :rolleyes:

[Mr Hankey]

So based on Titan 404's correct calculation you get about $35000 a month.

I just moved into a rented 2 bedroom 900 square ft apartment in a very "local" area in Kowloon, my rent is $38000 a month. It is very modest and in a complex with no other expats.

[Voiceofreason]

404 Titan's numbers make it seem like that 31% or 34% is paid every year. It's not. It's the first year that hurts, yes, but after that, even going by his figures, the annual tax rate on that amount would be 66486 / 604852 = 11%.

@ Hankey - that's nice for you. You could easily have chosen somewhere more affordable. I won't use my own place as an example, because others will throw it back at me and say I am a local, and therefore my comments don't apply for some reason. So, I will use another example of some friends who moved into an 1000sqft apartment in DB for $18,000 or others who moved into a 1400sqft place in S Lantau for $15k.

All depends on where you want to live. Sure, neither place is the height of activity, but it's the choice of space over convenient access to bars etc. Funnily enough, most cities around the world have that exact same dilemma...

[SpiritofMGL]

Did anyone who applied around last January hear back from CX?

[Voiceofreason]

Apart from EK/QR/EY, know any other airline that offers anything like a genuinely index-linked package? I don't want to live in the desert, but others do to get that, so fair enough. Index-linked packages are NOT the norm.

The question CX needs to ask itself is: is the package sufficient to attract enough people to join? Right now, it looks like it is, although who knows what kind of people are joining. If it's not the case in 10-15 years time, and people start leaving because they can't afford the rent/mortgage, do you really think they'll leave it there? They have a business to run. Simple supply and demand.

[404 Titan]

Voiceofreason
404 Titan's numbers make it seem like that 31% or 34% is paid every year. It's not. It's the first year that hurts, yes, but after that, even going by his figures, the annual tax rate on that amount would be 66486 / 604852 = 11%.
You must have a comprehension problem because I made it very clear it only applied to the first year. Quote:
In you first year of employment in Hong Kong you also need to budget for Provisional Tax, i.e. one year’s tax in advance. Therefore you need to double the above tax figures for your first tax bill.
For someone that calls themselves a “Voice of Reason” you truly are a sell out to your fellow local cadets. While we are trying to get them the same package we are on you are happy to play the role of the management mole and rosy everything up regarding the iCad scheme. Maybe you should change your name to “Voice of Management” or better still “Voice of Apathy”. :yuk:

apathy [ˈæpəθɪ] n

1. absence of interest in or enthusiasm for things generally considered interesting or moving

2. absence of emotion

[from Latin, from Greek apatheia, from apathēs without feeling, from a-1 + pathos feeling]

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

[cyrilroy21]

Can an a current Cathay pilot please post the Housing allowance that is given exisiting S/O , F/O and Captains and how this differs from the new cadet pilot housing allowance ?

I also read somewhere that Hong Kong residents / natives who joined as cadets are also not paid housing allowance while expat pilots where paid the same . Is this true ? If so what is the reason ?

[SloppyJoe]

Basic numbers are, as an SO joining now you get 10K/month that will not rise, as an SO. Expats get 60K+/month tied to the government index, rises and falls with the market, locked in for two years when you rent or buy.

Yes if a local joined through the cadet scheme they would get the cadet package.

The reason for this is:

The had 0 experience when they joined

Hong Kong is their home, they are not moving away from home to work.

Expats get a good housing deal because:

It is what is required to get quality experience to move half way around the world to fly your planes.

Most guys who joined as DESO on expat terms had well over 3000 hours, many with a lot of jet time, many ex military, almost all with at least turboprop command time.

Competition was fierce and CX could choose who they wanted.

I am not saying I agreed with the housing deal for locals which until recently was 0. I firmly believe that once they are experienced they should be given a better deal. They pass the same checks, jump through the same hoops, fly the same planes. Many of the local guys who have now got experience are looking elsewhere for a better deal.

[Voiceofreason]

Sorry, it seems I've obviously put a few guys' noses out of joint. Trying to show that not everyone thinks this package is crap, and I'm not alone.

I'll bow out of this thread now, because obviously it's a bit sad having so many current CX crew on a Wannabes forum banging their heads together in disagreement.

If anyone wants a reasonable debate/questions answered, please feel free to PM me.

[stillalbatross]

Dude, its a free forum so you are more than entitled to your opinion. It amazes me how many CX pilots tell me how crap the place is and then look elsewhere and find it's not so bad after all. Which somehow pisses them off more................

If you want an expat job anywhere you need widebody time or you need to get into an airline that takes you without widebody time and gives it to you. There are f*ck all of those about. This is what CX is offering, make the decision for yourself, what is best for you, right now, in your situation, in the current pilot market.

This place is legendary for everyone already here grabbing whatever the company offers because it suits them. And then coming up with some lame ass excuse why they were somehow forced into taking it. If the company is offering and it suits you then take it.

As for the idea that 18K for 1000 sq/ft in DB is going up considerably more, 49out of 50 analysts don't see much more upside in this current market. I' d put a beer on a max 18K/1000 sq/ft being good for the next 5 yrs.

[crwjerk]

Here are this week's figures from DB

1011 sqft = 35K
1037 sqft = 33K
742 sqft = 32K
727 sqft = 20K
718 sqft = 17K
1133 sqft = 50K
1088 sqft = 25K
533 sqft = 12K
515sqft = 10K

Small selection from a brochure. 6 July 2011

[404 Titan]

stillalbatross

I couldn’t care what 49 out of 50 analysts are saying. Most have a vested interest in peddling a particular position. Are they saying how much it will decline by? You have only got to look at the last 11 years to see what has happened to rents in Hong Kong. They have at least doubled and that includes the declines from 911 (2001), SARS (2003) and the GFC (2008). If you think it is going to decline over the next 10 – 20 years, and that is what all new pilots need to consider, you’re dreaming. Remember the HPA is a fixed amount and all new pilots are going to have to fight with the company to have it raised to keep up with inflation and the current market prices. Look how much fighting we have had with the company just for pay rises over the last 11 years. It speaks volumes of what all new pilots will face negotiating any future increases in the HPA. Even if we can’t get the HPA increased for all new pilots right now, it should at least be pegged to the HK rental index.

[etrang]

I couldn’t care what 49 out of 50 analysts are saying. Most have a vested interest in peddling a particular position.

Whereas you of course have no vested interest at all. :=

[SloppyJoe]

crwjerk

Your figures are a little misleading. Most people joining the cadet scheme now will not have any experience with property in hong kong.

The way it works here and I am sure what the figures above are based on is incorrect to determine the size of a place. The actual area you get is not as large as in the adds as they include maybe some or all of the following, lift and lobby area split between units, huge windowsills as are common in hong kong, the walls, yes the thickness of the walls, outside ledges, balconies, etc.

The best you can hope to get is about 80%, so the 515sq/ft place listed above will be at most about 400sq/feet, think about it for a second, in fact better still measure out a 10 foot by 40 foot rectangle. Then imagine putting a bed into that square, a washing machine, fridge, kitchen, table, wardrobe, toilet, shower, wash basin, tv, book case, chest of drawers, maybe can still squeeze in a small sofa.

This is the reality of living in Hong Kong whilst trying to live in a cheap place in an area that is pleasant (for an expat). You have to buy a thin tv and most hotel rooms you stay in with work are bigger than your flat.

Not trying to put guys off as think it is an excellent scheme for a young, single, guy/girl who has little or no experience. If however you are married, have kids, think very carefully about what you are doing. A LOT of marriages break up at CX because the partner does not like HKG, this is whilst they are living in a really nice place with disposable income.

[404 Titan]

etrang

Yeh, my motives are to improve the lot for all cadets at CX, not just the ones joining now. What’s you motive? The race to the bottom after reading some of your posts would best describe your motives.:yuk:

[Ten_Turning]

Calling all North American applicants for this one.

On the Education Screen under "Examination / Level Achieved 1", has anyone experienced problems with the application successfully capturing any entry other than "HKCEE, HKALE, GCSE, GCE A Level, IB, OAC, HSC etc." under the "Subject" column?

Just curious if the entries you used other than those mentioned above were able to be captured / populated into the "Subject" fields.

Thanks ahead of time, and good luck to every one of you that has applied. :)

Standing by....

[crwjerk]

Sloppy,
My figures are not misleading. You do not go into an agency and ask for the net floor space, you get GROSS, what is on the window/brochure that is advertised. Voiceofreason has alluded to 1000 sqft in Disco Bay as being available for 18k, maybe so, my figures are what the brochure says as of now. In gross floor area, as advertised, and as paid for. I do not disagree with you that the net area is much smaller, it's just doesn't come into the figures.

[apt_idea]

Disclaimer: I am currently enrolled in a University level program, part of which includes an integrated course to CPL/MECIR/Frozen ATPL. I have also elected not to continue on to stage two with CX; yes, it was offered.

Firstly, I'd like to thank those of you who have presented the current 'package' that is on offer in terms of not just the financial reward compared to what was once available, but also in terms of future prospects, lifestyles, and integrity of the profession.

Several days ago I started reading this thread with the intention of finding out a bit more on the cadet scheme and what it entailed. I have taken the time to read through every post and what I found was truly astonishing to me. I'm not speaking of pay and conditions - crappy as they are - either. I'm speaking of the utter nonsense that the people CX are actually taking the time to deal with are spewing forth here. It really does boggle the mind.

Much has been posted in a comical style 'pulling the piss' out of these kids so I won't even get into that, what I will get into is my shock that we have people on here who are 'training really hard on ms flight simulator', fatties asking about medicals, people saying "I've read everything and done so much research, but anyway, can you tell me what happens at the first interview" when there is hundreds of exactly the same types of posts answered ad nauseum! So many of the questions are things that anyone with one iota of interest in flying would know by now. I'm 34, I knew about class one medicals, license types, even bloody pressure level calcs before I was half way through High school *because it was interesting to think about how to get to my ultimate aim and what I needed to do to achieve it* - God help us if this is the best research they are capable of (it's not of course, they just want to be spoon fed instead of even taking the time to read a thread).

It was this never ending stream of garbage that turned me off the whole application process. Frankly I find the patience of most of those in the know on here exceptional; it's no wonder some snapped ;-)

I might be going through one of the integrated programs that so many on here pooh pooh, but at least it will be backed by a degree, and at least I spent the last 10 years working my backside off to be able to afford it. I'm glad I came here, I really am, at least now when all is said and done I will be getting my flight instructors license, enjoy the new people I will meet through that avenue, learn the ropes and move onto flying around the bush for a few years. By the time I've got the hours and experience I'll probably be to old for the airlines (thus the temptation of the scheme) but stuff it at least I'll be getting to where I'm going the way I always thought I would. Rant over :)

[spitfire92]

^ like a lot

[SloppyJoe]

But in most of the world you would not expect (as the following link outlines), this to apply when renting a flat in a high rise block. Most people who are looking at this cadet deal will be thinking they can get a 700 square foot place for what is advertised. Understand you were replying to a post about prices for a place in HKG but it is misleading due to HKG property practices. Not the comparison you made but what you get for your money.

Gross Floor Area | ExpatFlats (http://www.expatflats.com/1-137-gross-floor-area-info.html)

[andrewnorris1987]

Had interview today for Stage 1. (I am for the 61 week-ab inito)
Practice reasoning test as much as you can. They are very challenging especially towards the end of the test. I did not finish, I left about 10 questions in my test.

JKI is like BAK, know it well and you will do ok.

Interview was good, know HK, lifestyle pros and cons. Why are you suited there??
Technical interview for me was ok, know the aircraft inside out, you dont need to no thrust output and all that other mumbo jumbo, just name of engine, differences between the AC, 777 vs A330..

Good luck to everyone!;)

[FlyLikeAnSO]

I have been reading through this thread for ages, from what I have seen so far is that this deal sounds pretty good! The pay you get is much higher then i would get starting at any job after uni. Also Hong kong sounds like an awesome place to live although i have never had the chance to visit, My friend from HK told me that i can easily get a decent place in mid-levels for 20 grand which leaves me adequate money for a comftable lifestyle. I just finished Oxford and I have over 200 hours and i think this is a better opportunity then paying for my own type rating with the likes of EZY and FR.
Anyway, i just thought I would voice my 2 pennies in order to reduce some of the negativity which is very apparent in this thread

[Wannaberightseat]

Hi All,

I have a stage 1 interview coming up with Cathay in Hong Kong.

Im struggling to find info on the engine types used by the a/c at Cathay. Could anyone pass on the info please.

Also, AndrewNorris 1987 said to know the a/c inside out. Ive read up on them, seat capacity, number in fleet, long haul, short haul. What other things are they looking for?

Any help is much appreciated.

Kind regards

[SloppyJoe]

If you read this thread you will find out what engines CX aircraft have.

[goaround737]

Canvasing for opinions, did anyone feel that there was a reoccurring theme between stage 1 and stage 2 interviews?

I’m pretty sure they will ask further questions on the subjects you are weak on in stage 1, but is this as far as it goes?

For example, if you stated that you'd like to fly the 777, will they drill you on the 777 in stage 2?

[Eyon]

Out of interest, what is the average time from putting in your application into reviving contact to organising an interview?

[Jahanfar]

Congratulations on getting through to the first stage of interviews. Unfortunately I'm unable to help you with your question but perhaps you could help me? :O

I sent my application to Cathay's Cadet Programme last week. How long would you expect it to take before I got a response? My first choice interview location was England, Hong Kong was my second choice.

Thank you and the best of luck with your interview!

[andrewnorris1987]

18 months depending on the amount of applicants in your area.

[goaround737]

As per the hundreds of other responses on this subject, it varies wildly. I was 2 months, others wait years. Luck of the draw im afraid.

[flyber]

AndrewNorris1987 is right. Yeah, you can wait for up to 18 months before you get that crucial email or call inviting you for the stage 1 interview. For me, I applied last year May 2010 (to be specific) and to date,14 months later, I haven't heard anything from CX except the usual automatic 'Your application is being processed...You application will be considered among with others on your Geographical location...' until lately when I have realized they have stopped replying to my emails. However, I understand that they will be coming to Jo'burg South Africa on August 2011, so I have my hopes up that I will make the initial cut. If you are one of those who chose Jo'burg SA as your initial interview location, and you got that interview-invite call, please let us know.
Finally, how can one know if your application was terminated even before the stage 1 interview? Thanks.

[HappyBandit]

Anyone know if they will/are offering Aussie bases to successful candidates?

[quadspeed]

Anyone know if they will/are offering Aussie bases to successful candidates?

Yes, of course they are.

You can have your pick of any base you want, ahead of all the Captains, FOs and SOs currently in Hong Kong who've been waiting years to move home.

Oh. Wait a minute. The company doesn't save any money by offering you a base, so forget all that.

[SMOC]

As said, bases are to save expat costs, therefore don't ever expect to get a base in the future. Non expats may be entitled to bases now but don't bank on it in the future, expect to be in HK your whole career while with CX.

[DIESELENGINE]

sloppyjoe, is there a way I could get that info for the DSO study exam, please?!

[Dangerman12]

Hey guys,

Anyone going to the stage 2/3 interviews in Hong Kong on the 25th? If so pm me, would be good to meet up out there before next monday ;)

Dangerman

[nish1233456]

hi i see that u have applied for cathay pacific before , i recntly appiled i hav a PPL and they reponded saying they will consider me in the next interview so normally how long does it take 2 call us for the first interview , how did it happended in you

[Dangerman12]

I was fairly lucky mate, it just took a couple of days for me to get the call to interview.

[nish1233456]

i see dat u hav applied for cathay pacific b 4 just want 2 get some info coz i applied recently , i got a email saying i wil b considered in the next interview normally how long does it take 2 call us for the interview , i put singaopre as first location and hong kong as second ,

[Dangerman12]

Nish, I answered your question in the post above.

[Cpt. Underpants]

i see dat u hav applied for cathay pacific b 4 just want 2 get some info coz i applied recently , i got a email saying i wil b considered in the next interview normally how long does it take 2 call us for the interview , i put singaopre as first location and hong kong as second ,

God help us all

[uspilot]

The Talent is getting better and better by the hour....:\

[Bye Bye Baby]

Holy Sh1t he must be taking the piss?:confused:

[truss20]

When you apply, do you have to have finished your schooling/passed the required subjects, or can you apply beforehand as if it's going to take around a year for them to organise an interview, is is worth applying early?

[SloppyJoe]

I would say no as they invite you to an interview based on exam results etc if you have no flying background. How could they consider you if you have not got the minimum requirements? You may not pass or do as well as is required to make the grade for a 1st interview. They will not waste their time with the application as they have more than enough from people with 0 experience.

[Thierry121]

I got declined at stage 2 in Hong Kong, but a tip for people who are still in the process they won't give you any feedback if you fail, so know your own strengths and weaknesses. If you want it bad enough you'd be more than preapared to go the extra mile to brush up on everything you know. In addition seriously consider whether you can cope on the salary provided, people don't bang on about it here just to put you off, it's a long term career decision if you want to commit...

[crwjerk]

it's a long term career decision if you want to commit...
That's the problem.... Nobody is considering the long term effects of such a package.

[tupps]

Will anyone be in HK for the selection during the last week of August to meet for a bevvy?

[nish1233456]

just want to get tips

i aplied about a week ago and i put singapore as first place but now i want 2 change it 2 HK , but i m unable 2 relog coz it says the system is unavilable plz try later, so how lon did it take for u 2 be called for the first interview after aplying

[Blomqvist]

prob 6mths if ur lucky? prob many many months if ur unlucky? i put sin and hkg last time and got an invite when they came to SG in march..

[fightguy01]

Hey everyone.

So throughout this whole blog, people have asked what's the new aviation maths test. It used to be called numeracy test and quick subtraction but what does this new term mean? If anyone has experienced it, pls let us know, we would highly appreciate it!

IN brief, what does the new aviation math test constitute??? Thank you in advance...

[Dangerman12]

Mate,

You've asked the same question 3 times already, as well as PM'ing me with the same question twice. Please read the post earlier which answered it!!!!

[Dangerman12]

Oh and to answer all the people that keep asking why I would like to join a company which will give me a crappy package. Well it's quite a simple answer for me, I'm currently being paid £400 a month in my current flying job, being worked pretty much 8 hours or so a day (flying time that is) not to mention all the time waiting to fly. I would take any job at the moment and if I can survive on £400 a month then I can certainly survive on CX's SO contract. All these people with a job don't realise how lucky they actually are.

Simples

[Captain Dart]

I am SO glad that I will be retiring in the next few years before some of these clowns get through the system.

When and IF they do, to paraphrase Capt. Underpants,: 'god help you all...' :uhoh:.

The company manuals may also have to be translated into Gen Y textspeak.

[tupps]

I am sure it won't be too much of a loss to the "clowns" amongst us.

[404 Titan]

Dangerman12
All these people with a job don't realise how lucky they actually are.
You make the arrogant assumption that those of us already here didn’t do it hard on the way here. For the record your current earnings are a direct result of your own actions. It is quite obvious that you haven’t learnt a thing from your past mistakes as you are about to make the very same ones all over again and sell yourself down the toilet. The only difference is that this time it will be for the rest of your career.:ugh:

nish1233456

If you can’t be bothered writing your posts in plain English then you have no hope of an interview here. TXT gibberish is a sign of laziness.:yuk:

[hihi]

Yes it's all doom and gloom for Cathay Pacific now. Cadets are the incompetent spawn of satan and are doing nothing but drag the rest of the industry down with them, etc, etc...

Some of you guys sound like a real great bunch to fly with.



See you in the skies...

[CX-A330]

404 titan hihi and Captain Fart you hav no idea how much e want these great oportunity to flie with cathay ok ever since i am young it is my dream to fly for airline like cathay its the only chance i have so through this cadetship i hope to achieve our dreams so leave us alone wanabes ok:ugh:

Good luck to people lile dangerman and thierry we are the hard workerss

[ETOPS240]

I am SO glad that I will be retiring in the next few years...

I can safely bet you're not the only one looking forward to your departure.

[Captain Dart]

Yeah, well, my departure may be celebrated on both sides, but individuals joining on these appalling terms will be seen to be undercutting and putting pressure on the conditions of service of current crew.

They will be sharing a flight deck for hours through the night (and sometimes the following day) with plenty of other pilots who will see them as an industrial threat, after I am long gone.

The 'old hands' who post on this thread should be fairly obvious to most of you and their posts should be read very, very carefully.

[mugzy]

doing nothing but drag the rest of the industry down with them, etc, etc...

Sounds a lot like an industry I previously worked in. I survived 2 rounds of layoffs/outsourcing but finally management decided it was more profitable to move ops offshore and replace 80% of current staff with foreigners whose expectations and conditions were much less. Sh!t happens.. you learn to move on.

No matter how much of an asset you think you are to the company, just ask your boss and he or she will tell you that "nobody is irreplaceable" at any price, there is always someone more desperate who will do the same job for much less money. We live in a desperate world and things are going to get much worse before they get better.

[Dangerman12]

404 Titan,

I am by no means saying that nobody at CX did not have a hard time getting there. You make assumptions to the fact I have had a vast field of choices from which companies to choose from and what packages I would like to take. In reality over the years there hasn't been a snippet of a chance to go anywhere else. I have done my hard share at the bottom and after living like a complete bum for a few years I would actually like to earn enough money for food. (Que the sarcastic comments that if I get this job I would still be living like a bum). I understand that some people at the company are complaining about current conditions and I feel for them. If all of you who are on here who keep moaning about the conditions come up with a better alternative career choice (which doesn't involve getting your own TR etc) then I'd be MORE than happy to listen and very grateful. However after years struggling at the bottom, I feel quite entitled to move onto one of the only choices I have out there.

I have my reasons and I don't want to get drawn into a big heated discussion on this forum for days to come so I'll leave it with this post. It's not like me to even get drawn into these same old pprune discussions but I had a rush of blood to the head last night.

Dangerman

[ChinaBeached]

There are jobs out there. Just far too few wannabes willing to, let alone have the kahoonas to go for them.

A "snippet" of a chance? I'm sorry, but that shows how little research you have actually done. I fly all over the world and see many, many opportunities for guys to go straight into a RHS of a commercial jet via cadetships, or with the pitiful requirement of 500 hrs TT.

GA?? (Ooopps! Swear word!)

For generations pilots were able to do it but all of a sudden offer a cheap and nasty way into a widebody and miraculously these other jobs have dried up??!!

If all of you who are on here who keep moaning about the conditions come up with a better alternative career choice (which doesn't involve getting your own TR etc) then I'd be MORE than happy to listen and very grateful.

Sorry fella, while I have posted these options before I'm not going to do the work for you. Although that is what so many of you seek: a short cut with least amount of effort. And at the same time lower the industry and force pressure onto the present day CX terms and conditions.

I feel quite entitled to move onto one of the only choices I have out there.

(Highlighting and underscoring done by me)

So there you have it. You feel an ENTITLEMENT. Screw credentials, experience, knowledge, and so on, and so on. How dare anyone argue with your sense of ENTITLEMENT!!??!

GA is it's own weeding yard. If it's just too tough then maybe that's telling you something when you can't get ahead or progress? Or better yet, go somewhere where skill, determination, experience, etc are no longer needed at the cost of standards, safety, least of all integrity - CX iCadet.

I just hope no one makes it too tough for you!! Perish the thought of disturbing your ENTITLEMENT!!

[Dangerman12]

Hahaha,

don't make me laugh. Entitlement!! I am not saying I'm entitled to get the job. I'm saying I'm entitled to go for the job which all of you moan about because of the opportunities. I think it's a great offer and one which I'll be glad to have (if I were offered it). It makes me laugh how you presume that I haven't been trying hard enough to get into the airlines. What do you know. The industry is the way it is in terms of the packages offered. I'm dealing with it and maybe it's time for people to stop moaning all the bloody time. Just get on with it. If there are so many great opportunities out there why don't you quit your current position and go seek one of the many out there, that you've seen, for a better package. Let me know how you get on and good luck.

[ChinaBeached]

"Its a great offer" You say?.... No. An overwhelming majority of "experienced" pilots with "CX knowledge", "widebody international airline ops" will tell you in no uncertain terms that it isn't. But in your paralyzed head in the sand view they / we are all wrong.

Quit my present position? See, that's what the likes of you don't comprehend. Give up on the hard work and sacrifice that I went through for many years to sell out my industry, my colleagues and my own future? Not a hope in hell. Integrity is never up for sale: least of all to the lowest bidder.

"Let me know how you get on"...? Do what so many of you hopeful iCadets are so pathetically incapable of doing. Do some background reading (of my previous posts, my present job, etc) before asking questions that have been answered so many, many, many, MANY times before. Of course, like the tech knowledge and general overall job seeker commitment you all seem to have, you want others to do that work for you. Do your own damn reading & research.

(PS: There are a few documents such as FCOM, SOP's, FCTM,s AFM's, etc are quite thick with many pages you are expected to read. Yes, yes.... There are some pretty pictures of shiny jets so relax. You'll probably try to buy an audio book instead).

Some believe they are "ENTITLED" to reduce the overall well being of an airline and industry as a whole. Others do not. Your call. Your conscience. Just don't defend it with pathetic "it's all too tough to do it any other way" rubbish.

What you see as an ENTITLEMENT the vast majority of "experienced" pilots see as a complete sell out.

"So Dangerman! Why did you apply to CX?"

"Well illustrious interviewer, I felt entitled to take the offer of an interview."

Capt Dart is spot on. (It's a post above, so you may have to do some other reading instead of asking others to provide you with an abbreviated rendition......)

A lot to say for someone who stated:
I have my reasons and I don't want to get drawn into a big heated discussion on this forum for days to come so I'll leave it with this post. It's not like me to even get drawn into these same old pprune discussions but I had a rush of blood to the head last night.

[Dangerman12]

Incase you didn't realise, when I asked for help, it was with a sarcastic undertone so please don't flatter yourself mister experienced pilot. I have done my research, I have applied to every airline I can think of, I have sent my cv off to everyone and everywhere I can think of. I am happy with the package and I am not going to be stupid enough to stay swimming in the sand box if I have an opportunity to finally get paid more than £400 pounds a month. You have your opinion and I respect that. This is a good opportunity for me and I'm not apologising to anyone for going for it. Say what you want, I'm angry with myself for being drawn into this discussion (which is my own fault). Good day

[AQIS Boigu]

Dangerman12,

Most of us CX pilots have - at some stage - made 400 quid a month so we all know how it feels... the difference is that we didnt jump at the first opportunity to fly a jet no matter how much the airline offered... we all did our research knowing that the CX package on offer pre 2009 was good enough to survive and live comfortably away from home - leaving home to become an expat has to worth it.

First and last post to you so don't even bother argueing this point...

AB

[tupps]

This is the wannabe's section of the Fragrant Harbour forum isn't it? All I have read over the past few days is a disconcerting amount of negativity from people who are already in the industry, once in the shoes of the people they are trying to put off. I wonder, if faced with the same disgusting bulk of detrimental information on these pages how you would have reacted, would you have shied away or carried on regardless?

If you want to rant and moan about how this generation is a disheveled waste of space that will need the training manuals converting into "txt" language to understand it, then do it elsewhere please. Give us the chance to communicate openly with the others going through the selection, and let us make our minds up. Surely that's only fair?

Chinabeached does not work for Cx, so don't take his comments to heart, get your heads down and work your a*ses off, as the selection is still no easy task.

Tupps

[Cpt. Underpants]

OK, here goes:

I received a PM from a "wannabe" on this forum that read

hi mate
I sent u a mesage earlier , i saw dat u were going 2 reply but since my mesgae memory was full i dint receive it can u reply for the mesage dat i sent u earlier

thankyou

I responded with

Please do not email me for information.

Thank you.

And the person responded with

fine its ok

But learn helping somebody is not a bad things but world comprises people with different attitudes , so i am not amazed about ur reply

And you wonder what quality (or lack of) applicant is being attracted?

I truly despair for the future of this airline.

I do like the "mate" touch at the beginning considering I've never spoken to, corresponded with or know this person at all. A complete stranger. From the Indian subcontinent...mate.

[ChinaBeached]

Tupps: the style of grammar, the imbecilic questions that are asked, the complete and utter inability to research factual information from credible sources other than a RUMOUR network is a complete indictment of the type of wannabe CX is now attracting.

Go back to the pre-iCadet forums on this website and you will see a vast difference in the discussions.

Yes, this is a wannabes section that is also open to others posting questions to such idiotic and ignorant questions. It is also a place for those with the FACTUAL knowledge of things to pass that same information on.

Give us the chance to communicate openly with the others going through the selection, and let us make our minds up. Surely that's only fair?

"Communicate openly" in a language that insults basic human literacy and hence reflective of the type of applicant the current CX professionals may have to work with?

"Let us make our own minds up" you say? Oh! But please don't provide or write anything that is negative to the ill-gotten, pipe-dreamt, illogical and pathetic excuses that are used to justify a decision to sell out the airline and industry as a whole?? So only opinions that service this need are welcomed?

I'm glad you're open to a balanced debate - so long as you only hear the things that service your train of thought.

[G_Orwell]

20000+ applications worldwide, less than 2000 had/will have, the chance to get invited. From them many will be cut out from the process because of English!

Anyone can ask for information,. Now if someone who passed the 1st interview, came up here and ask questions in poor English, that will be alarming, to say the least.

[tupps]

Well said Orwell, the post seems to have gone dead, don't be afraid to post guys. Let's get things moving again. What would be your fleet of choice if you were able to choose? (Chinabeached I am aware you aren't able to choose before you pick up on it)

Tupps

[Cpt. Underpants]

The fleet you "choose" is utterly irrelevant.

You're NOT type rated, you DON'T accumulate any credit hours, you DON'T handle the aircraft - ever.

For FOUR years, minimum.

[flapsupdown]

funny u guys mention this

so many wanna bes and cadets stress over this. - but the truth is, it doesnt matter what fleet u r on as an SO. never handle or fly the plane...

when you are sitting in the cruise...it really doesnt matter...

i guess maybe different fleets have different hand mics....lol

[crwjerk]

One A/C type will sound better than the other when they tell everyone they are a "pilot"......

[dreamjob]

If you start as an A330 S/O will be you A330 F/O when the time comes? Or whatever slot comes up first?

[Cpt. Underpants]

It's simple really:

Choose the most irrational conversion from an experience, preference or current fleet perspective...

That's what you'll get.

Expressing an interest in any particular type guarantees it's exclusion.
Want "le grande plastique" to visit dear old mum in YSSY? Faggetaboudit. 777 for you.
B744 to get those YVR flights to polish off your float rating? Bus for you my boy.
Get the idea?

[mmtang]

I have 1800 tt and 200 multi and have a few questions if anyone can help to clarify. I have a US-NY interview in AUG 2011.

1)Will my CX SO time will be recognized in the US or other countries if for some unfortunate reason I am furloughed or have a family emergency and need to leave CX before I receive a type rating?

2) At what level do you get typed, Jr FO or FO?

Also, as for the 6 year training contract/loan. Some posts mention a 3 month notice is acceptable as a way out. Which is accurate or was this a practice they allowed before 2011?

Finally, does CX do a credit check like some govt contract us carriers (fed ex). I had a bankruptcy 6 years ago and there are some companies that cant hire me as a result within 7-10 years of filing.

[stillalbatross]

Love the utter BS on this forum by CX pilots.

1) the P2X is all of a P1 command type rating except for the circuits at the end, and you can have that accepted as a P1 rating on your licence in some countries, Australia for instance.
2) Agreed you never get a sector but you are in the sim at least every second month and would therefore get more sectors/landings than the majority of Relief Commanders on the 744 or 777 fleets.
3) It's not cool to accept this icadet job on it's reduced COS but it's OK to work on G days for 2.5% or take a Freighter Command that gets you left seat on a 744 for 60% what the company would be paying a pax skipper to do the job.


Oh yeah, thats completely different................

Kettle pot black

[Forward CofG]

stillalbatross,

It seems the utter BS is coming from you after your last post.

1) the P2X is all of a P1 command type rating except for the circuits at the end, and you can have that accepted as a P1 rating on your licence in some countries, Australia for instance.

A P2X rating is not accepted as a P1 endorsement in Australia and never has been.
Previously (up until approx. 18 months ago) a P2X rating could be transferred to an Australian license as a P2 rating (ie. co-pilot). I have been told that CASA will no longer accept a P2X to transfer to Australian licenses. I am unsure of the rest of the world but I would guess as it is a simulator only rating, no licensing authority would accept it.


2) Agreed you never get a sector but you are in the sim at least every second month and would therefore get more sectors/landings than the majority of Relief Commanders on the 744 or 777 fleets.

Many of the releif commanders on the 777 and 747 stay quite current. I rarely ever see any that are uncurrent due to the large amount of regional sectors available on the 777, and many shorter freighter sectors available to 747 guys.
If you think it is better to be in the simulator conducting circuits, against doing an actual sector in the real aircraft, then maybe it would be better for you to stay home full time playing MS Flight sim.


3) It's not cool to accept this icadet job on it's reduced COS but it's OK to work on G days for 2.5% or take a Freighter Command that gets you left seat on a 744 for 60% what the company would be paying a pax skipper to do the job.

The package for iCadet is not very good at all, so you are correct in the first part of your statement.

It is not OK to work on G days ( I never have and never will ).

Freighter commands are no longer available and all commands are now in seniority. The pay rate was approx. 80% of what a pax captain would earn.


If you wish to pontificate about CX pilots or others on a forum, make sure you know the facts and not just spew drivel and lies.

[404 Titan]

Forward CofG

I was actually informed by CASA Canberra office in 2003 when my job security at CX looked fragile due to SARS that my HK P2X rating couldn’t be converted to an Aus P2 rating. I don’t know where “stillalbatross” has got his info from but it is wrong and I suggest he contact CASA for the facts. As for the US, they don’t have P2 ratings. You are either rated i.e. P1 or you aren’t. A P2X doesn’t qualify you for a P1 rating on a US licence. You can though be non-rated and act as a co-pilot on US registered aircraft.

[Dangerman12]

I was under the impression that the p2x rating could count for half the hours towards the ATPL licence. Am I completely off on this statement??

[DIESELENGINE]

heard a lot of negative about CX.
But as somebody who has actually experienced furlough first hand ,coming from good ol US of A, not a surprise, I can tell that there is no package out there that can compensate for job stability. And that's one thing cx has, at least so far so good.

[swh]

Forward CofG & 404 Titan

CASA should not distinguish between "P1/P2" ratings obtained overseas, they are all classified as "overseas aeroplane endorsement" under CAO 40.1.0 Paragraph 6.9.

CASA does not have a 528 for an endorsement, it has a syllabus of training as per 40.1.0 Appendix 3. Any type rating in HKG covers all the syllabus items for the issue of a command endorsement in Australia. When converting an endorsement, if you put a little more effort in an comply with CAO 40.1.0 para 7.2.3 (ca), i.e. training records, how they are at least equivalent to 40.1.0 Appendix 3, and a copy of the CX AOC, and contact information (email address) of how this can be verified, you can get a full command endorsement.

The difference between a P1/P2/P2X ratings in HKG is not in the training, it is what is done in the 528 test. The P1/P2 rating have a base training component, Australia does not require any base training for the issue of an endorsement. If all the training is covered in a simulator, that is satisfactory for CASA.

I would dare say the reason for your rejection is the question being asked, and the information being presented, and not knowing the rules yourself.

Dangerman12

Yes, it is recognised by ICAO as co-pilot time.

Edit : Fixed CAO Paragraph referance to CAO 40.1.0 para 7.2.3 (ca)

[Forward CofG]

swh

here is a link from CASA licensing section. It is for overseas aircraft endorsements.

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/fcl/download/os_endorsement.pdf

If you look under the section for Group/Class Endorsements you can see an applicant needs to have command time or have completed a proficiency check.
Otherwise a Co-pilot (P2) endorsement is provided.

I was told by a friend who recently tried having his P2X rating transferred to his license that CASA will no longer allow this, although CASA's website does not specify any info on a rule change (that I can find).

[404 Titan]

swh

I actually did provide a copy of my training records/syllabus and the HKCAD test form but was informed by CASA in 2003 that the HK P2X isn’t a recognised rating and therefore isn’t transferable. I am more than familiar with CAO 40.1.0 par 6.4 having been a CFI/ATO with testing approvals to CPL and MEIFR with a previous employer. Maybe CASA were wrong but they unfortunately had the last word and weren’t budging in their decision at the time. Once I had a P1 rating though six months later it wasn’t an issue.

[swh]

Forward CofG

There is a subtle difference. That document is for the conversion of a rating to the equivalent Australian endorsement.

from CAO 40.1.0 para 7.2.3

"(c) the person seeking the endorsement must hold an overseas aeroplane endorsement that CASA is satisfied is at least equivalent to the class endorsement sought;"

The process I outlined is for the issue of an Australian endorsement on the basis of training conducted overseas. This would be like going to Alteon overseas to do the training and have the endorsement issued in Australia, except in this case, CX is the TRTO.

"(ca) the person seeking the endorsement must give to CASA the following:
(i) documents from the training provider that show that he or she has completed all the training and testing required for the issue of an overseas aeroplane endorsement that CASA is satisfied is at least equivalent to the class endorsement sought;
(ii) documents from the relevant authority that show that the organisation or individual who conducted the training was approved by the authority at the time of the training and assessment for the issue of the overseas endorsement;
(iii) information that will enable CASA to verify the documents provided;"

That is how I had two of my overseas endorsements put onto my Australian licence. CASA has different requirements for the issue of an endorsement than some other overseas contracting states, as long as you have completed the recognised training that CASA requires in CAO 40.1, and have it documented, and that can be verified, no reason why CASA will not issue the rating.

You just need to know what you are asking for, and what information to provide. If you go in with you overseas licence only, the process of para (c) needs to be followed.

404,

I did not give them my licence, just the training records. I was able to demonstrate that the training met the requirements of CAO 40.1. FYI a number of the sim instructors have also been able to do the same for rating they do have on a HKG licence, some do not even have a HKG licence.

[SloppyJoe]

Dangerman:

That is for the issue of a HK ATPL, they count them as half rate. I am pretty sure no where else does and certain that the UK (JAA) do not count any of them. I investigated unfreezing a JAA ATPL but was told I do not have the multi crew hours required as the P2X rating is not recognized so any hours flown using it are not valid.

[Dangerman12]

Sloppy Joe,

Thanks alot mate! That's clarified it for me.

Dangerman

[stillalbatross]

Fwd CofG,

So you've never seen TL on a 777 roster? Never gone 60 days before getting a sector? When the next ER turns up will that make the ratio of longhaul to shorthaul on the fleet increase or decrease? Are we short of RQ on the fleet due increasing longhaul or way overmanned?

Not sure about 2011 but from memory plenty of guys in 2001-02 sent all their type rating info to CASA and got a P1 for their troubles. Long and drawn out process but it was endorsed on their licence.

I'm not saying the sim is better, just that the amount of time in the front seat for take off and landing may not be as different as some make out. Plenty of guys have done max 16 sectors a year while RQ on the 744, 777 will head the same way.

All commands are now in seniority but you gave up some incremental rises as a result. Brilliant. And 20% less? Only? You are happy with up to 20% less money for the same job? This will help our COS go in which direction?

Did you ask an A scaler about your package before you joined (if you're not an A scaler), would he have said the money's ****e, don't take it?

if you're a B scaler on here you have no right to slag off the new joiners on C scale, you did exactly the same thing.

Who in their right mind would join without a travel allowance? B scale

Who in their right mind would join without the P fund indexed? B scale

Need I go on? Guys join knowing what they are getting, let them be.

[SMOC]

Years ago I got a P2 rating from CASA but it stated.

May not be at the controls for takeoff or landing

I was just trying it on to see what happened was a waste of money, I'm surprised CASA doesn't do the same thing just to collect the cash.

Perhaps since JM aka TSS :ok: got there he sees P2X for what it really is.

[CX-A330]

ok does the hongg kong pilot licenses works in the other country? if i am the first officers of cathy ok and i want to go to the air quantas or the etihad airlines or the air emirates or the british airlines is the hong kong pilott licenses works in these airlines? ok thanks

[blacklabel]

yeass it vorks man, u fly da 777 solo first go and when u roll on da runway u go put da full powa and then u fly in the air like a car with wings.
But maybe over seas coz u have da hongg kong pilot licences maybe u get direct captain man, no poofy copilot in there

[APU-inop]

Hello Gentlemen,New to this forum, can anyone share some insights whether other asian (other than HK’ers) have chances to this cadet program? I have PPL, 8 years as airline technical services - powerplant. I’m under the impression CX is only eyeing for HK’ers and caucasian candidates. Thanks!

[APU-inop]

Hello Gents,

I'm new here. Can you tell if one with following background has a chance for a cadet SO interview?
1. Degree in Mechanical Engg.
2. 8 years working as Airline Technical Services Engr - Engine/APU
3. Asian (not HK'er)
I'm under the impression that CX cadet program is only open for HK'ers and white gents.

[SMOC]

You're way ahead of the guy 4 posts above :}

[Cpt. Underpants]

da biotch dey luv u here man. wid da shades an da ATTITUDE u r da biz bro.

hey mi brudder join now i sez man.

[DIESELENGINE]

sloppy joe, were you hired by CX then?

I might have missed it in the previous post, did not read it all the way back

[aile_striker]

Hi guys,

I've been reading the thread from page 100 or so.. but cannot find anything too relevant for the upcoming stage 2 interviews.. since the stages had been changed a lot this year..

would anyone please kindly share their experiences for stage 2? and maybe how i can prepare for it??

thanks.

[slotsdown]

How long is it going to take the senior blokes to realise that NO MATTER how hard you tell us your facts about how bad the CDS is it won't stop us.

Everyday you guys (the current CX crew) are constantly being bombarded with Q & As about this course.

Bottom line, we are here to stay and you better accept it!

To one specific pilot who is glad that he is retiring; "bon voyage"
Your negative information will most greatly be forgotten.:=

One more thing. How do you tell a child who lives in a 3rd World country, with no financial aid; has no access to the internet; doesn't have a Mcdonalds or well run grocery store where he can seek employment and try to pay for his/her training(something that some of us have tried but realised that it will take all eternity to fund our own licenses by working at Mcdonalds or some piece job. Learning to be a pilot is DAMN expensive in Europe and most flying clubs offer only PPL, which doesn't give you employment oppotunities) that Cathay Cadet is bad?

Don't tell me because I live in a more economically developed country I will find a way. BECAUSE I haven't, most of us who live in MEDCs have tried everything and have failed. What more a person who lives in a 3rd world country, are you going to tell them to bugger off, if given the opportunity.

They might be better opportunities for us who live in MEDCS, but what about those in a 3rd world country?

[ChinaBeached]

Pollution is inevitable and here to stay. It's turning the world into a sewer. Should we call this progress or try to rectify it?

Lowering standards is happening to save costs & line the pockets of the very same people who's task it is to maintain them. Should we call this progress or try to rectify it?

Pilots stabbing other pilots in the back to further their own self interest. Should we call this progress or try to rectify it?

Kids telling their seniors in age, knowledge, experience & credentials offering the facts about the job they seek to p!ss off & retire because you don't want to hear it? Should we call this progress or try to rectify it?

Would a kid in a third world country crap on his own village, culture & completely disrespect the elders? (Metaphor: see if you can work it out).

Slots, you appear to be right. You are here to stay. You haven't "won". The immoral, greedy management using you have. Should we call this progress or try to rectify it?

[DIESELENGINE]

aile stryker
so I take it you passed your stage 1 then? :DCongrats! When was it?

Was it really just:
1-multiple choice technical questions
and
2 - interview including technical and personal questions?

[flyber]

Any one in this thread who has been invited for stage 1 interview in Jo'berg South Africa on August?

[aile_striker]

Thanks man, yeah, i passed my Stage 1. I did it on June 28 and they got back to me about 2 weeks later and invited me to do the ICAO test.. and it had since been another 2 weeks again. The assessor told me i'm a solid 5, borderline 6 so i'm not worried about that.

Stage 1 is in 4 parts:

Multiple choice - based on JKI booklet mainly, but there are bits that are PPL knowledge and general planes knowledge and CX company information.

Personality test - computer test asking you to rank your preferences

Reasoning test - IQ test in my opinion, same as all other bros and sis says, it's the Raven's Progressive Matrices.

Interview - HR and Technical. The technical part can get a little tough. They probably want to see to wat extent you know. Of course it depends on your level too. if you have PPL, they'd expect u to know a lot more than someone without a PPL.

[DIESELENGINE]

aile striker
appreciate that man, very detailed, useful stuff!
finally some on topic stuff. Looks like we just doublehandedly (yep, its an actual word) returned this forum to what it should all be about - getting ready for a cadet pilot programm.:)

1)that JKI booklet, It sounds pretty important, where should I look for it?
2)by PPL do you mean people, as in people knowledge? or commercial pilot stuff knowledge?
3)sound like there was no math anywhere there, at least so far
4)how was that medical form you have to fill out, was that pretty in depth?:ooh:

[Jagdfalke]

Diesel,

The JKI booklet is the job knowledge interview booklet. If you get invited to a stage 1 interview, they will send you this booklet via email approximately 2 weeks prior the interview. It is 60 pages of flying basics.

PPL = Private Pilots License. The information in the JKI booklet is at about this level of understanding.

The medical form is fairly basic and not at all in depth. From what i have read, the really in-depth stuff is to be expected in HK where you undergo a comprehensive medical assessment.


If you are serious about wanting to become a cadet, i suggest you read this thread from the absolute beginning. It will take a few days, but will answer your questions. For anyone else interested, don't take the comments of the detractors in this thread too seriously. Take the time to do some research of your own and you'll find that while the cadetship isn't the greatest offer going, it certainly isn't the worst either. Having spoken with a few existing S/O's who have been through the cadetship (on worse T's&C's), they all agree that it is quite manageable, so long as you don't have high expectations.

Just make sure you know what you are getting yourselves into.

Best of luck.

[aile_striker]

Dieselengine:

1) they send you the JKI booklet when you are invited for the interview.
2) as stevop21 says, you should know this man.. it's private pilot license level knowledge
3) no maths until Stage 2 as far as i know
4) the medical form was pretty simple, just about your eyes, whether u had any operations or stayed in hospital for any reasons after birth, medication, etc.

I wonder if there's anyone brothers out here who did Stage 2 recently and could share what they had to do. Please offer some guidance if there is anyone out there..

[binsleepen]

Hi all,

I'd appreciate some help as I am a bit confused. I'm an experienced ex-military pilot and I applied to Cathay for a F/O post. As we all know they aren't recruiting F/Os so I went back into my application and ticked the S/O box too. I got an email the other day saying:

I am pleased to advise you that I now have a schedule for your final interview in Hong KongThis was the first time I have heard back from Cathay so I am very confused by the word FINAL having not had any other interview. Is this normal? What have I missed? and what stage is the interview that I will have i.e. stage 2 etc as discussed on this thread. Is it normal to be invited to HK and they appear to willing to pay for my wife and I to fly to HK for 4 days.

All the best to everyone.

[DIESELENGINE]

stevop21 (http://www.pprune.org/members/313573-stevop21)

Dude, its been 12 years since I've last heard of a private pilot's license!

Don't disrespect the elders :=
Don't stress, you'll forget what PPL stands for after you had your ATP for a few years too :{

[SMOC]

This was the first time I have heard back from Cathay so I am very confused by the word FINAL having not had any other interview. Is this normal? What have I missed? and what stage is the interview that I will have i.e. stage 2 etc as discussed on this thread. Is it normal to be invited to HK and they appear to willing to pay for my wife and I to fly to HK for 4 days.

They are so desperate for Short course pilots (4-12wks) that they want you as quickly as possible. They are severly lacking in applicants for this course due to the poor conditions of service vs experience, while the 60wk course with 0 experience gets thousands.

[scottb12]

Has anybody from the UK recently been informed of dates for their stage 2 interview? I had my first interview last month and was informed around 3 weeks later that I had been successful to stage 2 and would be informed of an exact date in due course. This was almost 4 weeks ago now though just wondering if anybody else had the same email and has any idea of when the stage 2 interview will be?

Cheers

[captain.weird]

Anyone here invited for the first stage in Amsterdam?

[Dangerman12]

aile_striker, check your PM mate ;)

[THE_WING]

Dear Ppruners,

A friend of mine was asked this question during an interview but then he was told that his answer isn't convincing enough. May I please ask for your inputs; as to how would you go about answering this question?

Why is a turboprop most efficient at medium altitudes and turbojet/turbofan at high altitudes?

I request all those who're flying turboprops or Jets to share too.

Thanking all in advance.

TW

[CX-A330]

ok please anyone who is know how long it is takes to hear first times from cathay after this first application submitted? ok please answer ok i am waited 3 weeks and not hear anything!!! ok is it this normal? do i get reject? :ugh: ok thanks for answers.

[Mike.]

Similar boat as CX-A330 here. I sent mine off on the 1st of June and am still yet to hear anything. Has anyone else received any contact within this time frame?

Captain Weird - your comment concerns me! When did you apply?

[07R]

Well I had my chance with the stage 1 interview on the 19th. I worked so hard to learn everything from the JKI booklet and prepared myself as best I could but I walked away that day thinking I'd only performed 'okay' in the interview. I thought I may still have a chance to progress.

I did not make it through to stage 2. I have no flying experience except for PC sim's and my rejection email said I did not meet the required standard to proceed onto stage 2. I would like to find out what I failed on, and work on it for my next application.

Does anyone think an aspiring cadet pilot can still be accepted onto a CPP without flying experience after failing the stage 1?

Is their rejection email a standard form email?

[mach5]

yaa me 2oo even I had applied few month back and I just got a reply stating that we would call you for the next selection process . Anyone has any idea when is the next selection process.

[mach5]

May be we can add this points also
* Gas turbine engines are most efficient when their compressors are operating at high RPM i.e 90-95%
*The high RPM achieves the best specific fuel consumption.
*At high altitude the cruise airframe drag is minimum.
*The TAS is also higher for a constant IAS.

[McFlyBoy]

Heyyy Everyone

I applied online for the Cathay second officer cadetship in February and haven’t heard anything back. How long does it normally take for them to get back to you?

Also I’m from Adelaide and I know the first round that will be in Adelaide since February will be in November. How much notice will I get if I’m offered an interview?

Thanks :)

[VFE]

Does anyone know how much flying is involved in the 30 week course? Solo etc?

Many thanks,

VFE.

[scottb12]

Any body know of any good practice maths tests similar to the ones they use at Cathay in stage 2 that are around either in books or online?

Cheers

[kurty]

Hi,

Does anyone know how long it takes for CX to get back to you. I've been waiting almost 3 weeks after my stage 2-3 in hong kong to find out the result.

Thanks

Jon

[rleungz]

My experience

Filled in the application in September and got a phone call from a man in Hong Kong in February.

To be fair I completely forgot about it.

[flyinryan76]

I've been waiting almost 6 weeks after my stage 2/3 so you may be in for a wait! I know of others who have been/are in the same boat. On the other hand, some have heard after two weeks. I'm thinking maybe it's the medical process that is holding it up. :confused:

[captain.weird]

Hi guys I have some questions:

I've been following this thread for quit a while and I have still some questions. The most selection takers say that you don't have to learn only the JKI but more things. I've read about CX, the fleet, destinations, HKG about itself. But what more? Where can I find more technically details? Which books? I've bought the book 'Handling the Big Jets' but it is quit hard because I don't have any flight experience and never read very technically things. Where can I start?

And are there some people out here who are already been invited for Amsterdam?

[CX-A330]

Ok i am waited for the cathy to replied to my applications ok, i am waited too much this is normal? Ok is it anybodies else in same as psitions as myslef? I am hope to received this invitations by cathay for the stages 1 2 3 4 5. Is anybodies knows much about this new stage 5?

[Captain Dart]

Whoop whoop wind-up alert! Whoop whoop wind-up alert!

[barney31]

Ok i am waited for the cathy to replied to my applications ok, i am waited too much this is normal? Ok is it anybodies else in same as psitions as myslef? I am hope to received this invitations by cathay for the stages 1 2 3 4 5. Is anybodies knows much about this new stage 5? Dude, if I where you, I would be more worried about your english proficiency then getting an interview. For goodness sake, at least use the spelling-check on your forum-admissions:ugh: That being said, there is no stage 5. Just flight grading and after that, it is up to FTA and CX to offer you an cadet-position.

I've been following this thread for quit a while and I have still some questions. The most selection takers say that you don't have to learn only the JKI but more things. I've read about CX, the fleet, destinations, HKG about itself. But what more? Where can I find more technically details? Which books? I've bought the book 'Handling the Big Jets' but it is quit hard because I don't have any flight experience and never read very technically things. Where can I start? Sounds like you have done some research, but if you can not understand the fundamentals laid out in the book, you have a real thing coming.... But nevertheless, to give some 2-cents alternatives: Try to ring up a flying club or school in your vicinity and see whether your can take an IFT. You will have to break your piggy bank, but it does not cost you an whole arm. Try to contact a pilot (preferably from a larger carrier) and see whether they have any good reading material. The FAA site has some basic stuff on flying and you ought be able to read and comprehend as it is general technical knowledge. There are loads of books and scripts out there, some more technical then others. You better get to grips with the basic flight fundamentals, else you are just wasting your time.

Oh, and read the "the 49-ers, True Story" from John Warham as well. :ok:

Good luck!

[Biggsywiggsy]

Hi Guys,

I did the stage 1 in London on 8th July, a few weeks on I've heard naff all apart from an e-mail asking for the medical form again. I hope that no news is good news!!! So it looks like I'm joining the CX waiting club!:confused:

[captain.weird]

Hi there biggsywiggsy, how did your stage 1 go? Can you maybe post sone things what you have experienced? Like questions, maybe some tips and tricks? Which plane did they put on the table?

@Barney: I did already all the things you said, except where I can find the right information. Already know the things about Hong Kong, Cathay Pacific, Flight Training (& Facilities) and things like that. I have already a JAA basic book (PDF) but I don't know which chapters I need to read. Just read some of the beginnings, some chapters which are related to the chapters from the JKI?

[Cpt. Underpants]

Which plane did they put on the table?

You ARE kidding, right?

Seriously - if you can't identify which aircraft is used in the screening interview, you've no business in this profession.

My Lord, help us all.

[captain.weird]

You ARE kidding, right?

Seriously - if you can't identify which aircraft is used in the screening interview, you've no business in this profession.


Thank you very much for your very big so big input and answering my question! -.-

[Cpt. Underpants]

A tristar.

[CX-A330]

Ok my englishes is not the good but i am the passion about these cadet program offered by cathay ok i am worked hard to improves my weekness that is what cathay is looking for!!:ugh: and i know there is the stages 5 because my good friends hamzah says there it is stages 5 which is involves the "advanced psycometric test" ok so get your facts right before laying to us!!

[Cpt. Underpants]

CX A330

They really do require a standard of English higher than what you seem it have. In fact, it's a licensing requirement to speak GOOD English.

Unless your spoken English language ability is better than what you seem to be able to write, here's what your priorities may (should) be:

1. Learn to speak English. It's a difficult language. You may need help. It's not the sort of language that is easily learned from reading.
2. Apply to the program if it's what you want to do.

If you apply without the language skills required, you most certainly will be rejected. Guaranteed not to get past initial screening. Fail.

Online translation programs like babelfish and google translate are ok for single words, but fail badly when it's complicated. Are you using online translation? Perhaps if you posted questions in your native language there may be guys in CX who can help you.

The way you are posting now may seem sincere to you but to many it's comical (funny) and so no one will take you seriously. They think it's a joke.

Good luck.

[tupps]

Well said underpants. Does anybody happen to have a .pdf copy of the Ravens Progressive Matrices, if it even exists? Or a hard copy they are willing to sell?

Tupps

[CX-A330]

thanks for the advices Cpt.Underpants i am speaked the good english (i hope!) but to write the engilish it is hard but i am worked hard to improve and i will make it to the cathay :ok: i am not use the translations but it may help now ha ha ha.

using translations:

wie lange dauert es, um wettbewerbsfähig zu sein in verbindung anderen airlines?

how long does it take to be competitive in other connecting airlines?

from the cathay cadet to other airlines i am meaning to say

DANKE :ok: (thanks you)

[ETOPS240]

:D:}

Terrific.

[Cpt. Underpants]

CX-A330

Great, I think I know what you're trying to ask...

As a S/O (second officer) - after you join CX, you can plan on at least 4 years as a S/O.

It can be as much as 5 years, but expect at least 4 years.

The hours you "fly" as a second officer "count" for almost nothing for a higher licence. The ratio of actual hours flown to hours counting is 1:4. Assume you "fly" 650 hours each year for 4 years, all you will count to a higher licence is 650 hours.

OK, assume you convert to Junior First Officer after 4 years, but the time your conversion is finished, you will have about 300 hours as JFO, 650 hours as S/O and 240 hours from your cadet program, total 1190 hours.

You need about 2500 hours to be competitive for other airlines, that would mean an additional 1300 hours as a F/O, about another 2 years.

Your total time in CX would be about 6 years, the same time as the bond ends.

I hope this answers your question.

Good luck and well done!

[nish1233456]

Does that mean that after you join Cx you have to wait for 4 years as a S/O, that is too long i guess in comparison to my national carrier ,

[Cpt. Underpants]

That's correct. 4 to 5 years (some are saying up to 6 years) from the time you finish your training in ADL.

[nish1233456]

so do they pay a salary for the S/O during that time and that 6 years do you hav to stay in adelaid or after you get your CPL and the type reating do they make you fly in the cockpit

[hihi]

Thanks for the update, Goebbels.

[nish1233456]

so in our national carrier you can becoe a captain in 8 years total , so if you have to wait as a s/o for 6 years then how long wil it take to be a captain, and how much do they pay you as a s/o

[Cpt. Underpants]

Thanks for the update, Goebbels.

He could be correct.

There IS going to be dramatic market reaction to the Moody's AAA downgrade. My guess is the HSI will lose >2500 points in the next week or so, >10000 points in the medium term.

When markets fall, bankerwankers stop traveling. Our (CX) front end is mostly financial sector, and a hit there will certainly scale back growth.

There may be some "rightsizing" on the horizon.

Whatever happens next (I'm no guru), we haven't seen the worst of the "crisis".

"This isn't the end. This isn't even the beginning of the end. However, this is the end of the beginning..."

[ayoterbang]

Hi all...

Thanks for capt underpants for sharing good info regarding your last posting and it makes me to think more optimist for me to join CX and i am ready with those kind on of period as S/O.

Last 2 weeks ago, i just apply the cadet program and hope they can take to consideration us who applied the program.

thanks

[Kameel]

In the past Cathay offered 2 month Temp. basing's for SO, is that still available?
Or should a SO commute to Europe when he wants to fly back home?

[Cpt. Underpants]

CXs' basings program is in complete disarray. Lack of company oversight and fiduciary responsibility has caused a multitude of legal violations which Cathay is reluctant to accept liability for.

In short, ALL new bases are suspended until further notice. This applies to temp bases as well.

Commuting should not even be on your options list. Here's why:

Cost. CX has the worlds' most expensive staff travel. Your salary will simply not allow you the discretionary spending that commuting demands.

Staff travel policies. It will take you up to a year to even qualify for some levels of staff travel. When you DO qualify, you're bottom of the list. When I say bottom, I mean EVERY spouse, child and dependent of everyone above your "date of joining" will be ahead of you. Your seniority might reflect 3,000 on the pilots list but in reality you'll be more like 50,000. Fact, not hyperbole.

Fatigue. Do not think for a minute that CX is not intent on extracting it's "pound of flesh". You will be tired. Thinking of sleeping on your way back? Forget about it. Economy class (that's what you'll be flying) is shockingly uncomfortable, with torturous seats and no legroom. You'll be on the middle seat too. Next to a mainland lady with marginal incontinence and body odor. And a complete lack of social awareness - shouting excited conversation to her family three rows back.

Jumpseats. Limited availability and snapped up like hotcakes. Most captains (myself included) hold off on jumpseat allocation until operating crew members have first option for companions, followed by known colleagues. Again, bottom of the list.

In short, you're in HKG for a while. If you can't get your head around that, reconsider.

Out.

[Captain Dart]

I second Underpants. Also:

Tax. After the 49ers debacle, tax authorities around the world had their attention drawn to based CX crew (another reason basings are suspended through, as I've said previously, amateurish and under resourced base administration).

Word is, the Australian Taxation Office is coming after commuters. The tax, immigration etc. computers now all talk to each other, you can run but you can't hide.

[spitfire92]

Cpt. Underpants
not sure if this is true but regarding your post about hour transfer for licensing i remember reading from a link posted in one of the previous replies that yes S/O hours are considered at a fraction of the rate but also to a maximum # and anything above that number is useless for licensing -> this could be because of sim?

It true that you will spend quite a bit of time within the company before you can even consider transferring to another carrier, and another consideration would be that on average from what i have read in this thread it takes about a year to get through the whole selection process and that is if you happen to get through in one go...so total 9 maybe more years. But not going through the program and going G/A also takes time - probably not as much though and there is also the plus of getting to touch a plane :}

again its up to the applicant to decide whats best for himself and im posting this neutrally amid the thread argument

[Cpt. Underpants]

again its up to the applicant to decide whats best for himself and im posting this neutrally amid the thread argument

Couldn't agree more.

However there is a naiveté about "real" life in Hong Kong and the Terms & Conditions of this new "D" scale.

Be under no illusion that this package is indentured labour at a less-than-livable wage FOR HONG KONG.

The recruiters are glossing over the unpleasant aspects, and there are some (many?) on this board that CHOOSE to ignore the sage advice being given here.

"None so blind as those that will not see..."

[crwjerk]

Next to a mainland lady with marginal incontinence and body odor. And a complete lack of social awareness - shouting excited conversation to her family three rows back.

You forgot the mothballs and black teeth **** breath.... A LETHAL combination....!!!!