Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme

[johnson717]

I may be being a bit paranoid, but I'm just wondering how long does it take for cathay to call back after initial 1A if i pass it?
I have done it on wednesday and waiting for their callback, tho the email clearly said they will call me and arrange a date for 1B within 2 weeks if I pass it.
Anyone can share their experience on this?

[Bull_NTP]

Regarding the detail of the compass aptitude test, do u all have any ideas about the content of it?? Just not sure what it is about ...

[orangeboy]

Ab initio do a standard compass test. AE applicants do the Advanced compass test.

Check this link as it outlines what to expect. The main thing would be to brush up on your maths, memory and basic physics as the other bits can't really be prepared for. Actually, it would probably be more important to get a good nights rest beforehand as the test is very draining.

Ab initio
European Pilot Selection & Training, Compass (http://www.epst.com/com/compass.htm)


Advanced Entry
European Pilot Selection & Training, Advanced Compass (http://www.epst.com/com/adv_compass.htm)


Johnson, just be patient, if they say they will call you back within 2 weeks, they will. They are normally very swift to tell people if they fail, so generally speaking, no news is good news - in most cases anyway.

[Joycekin]

Hi tcyandy,
Are u doing ab initio? How long did u wait until u get the invitation for stage two after the ICAO test? Coz I did my ICAO 3 weeks ago but still no news at all. Kinda worry about it.
Thanks

[XLAN]

No news is good news, i guess? They normally would send rejection mail to those who failed. If this practice hasn't changed, then you are alright.

[Captainhui]

I'm in Adelaide. And heard that CP53 just arrived.
Did anyone know that when will be the CP54 or 55 interview start?

[orangeboy]

CP 54 starts in Oct/November, and there are already candidates in that class - it would probably be up to the flight grading stage for any remaining candidates for this class.

CP 55 starts around January, so interviews are probably well under way for that.

[Pyromania]

That's correct.
CP54 will start around mid-November.

I know there is a batch going to FTA for grading in mid-October. Not sure if that is the last one.

CP55 will start in Jan.

Anyone in CP54, can you PM me?
I would love to get to know you before we all head down to FTA! :)

[orangeboy]

Is it true that quite a number of candidates have been failing at FG lately?

[Pyromania]

Not sure.
All four people in my batch made it. (3 Advance & 1 Basic)

I've heard both sides of the story.

[Rideontime]

Anyone doing grading in late Sep to Early Oct please pm me?!

[alvintanwc]

Hey guys, I am new to this forum. Just wanted to check with you guys if CX actually takes in Singaporeans as ab-initio pilot? Thank you all.

[Marco0208]

Hey Guys

I am going have my cadet pilot interview stage 1 on thursday (21/9)

I have no flying hours and no avaitaion knowledge !

I spent the last few days reading the JKI booklet and starting to get worry after reading some interview questions posted on the forum !

I am seeking for guidance, i feel i have no time to read everything, especially learning the aricraft models in depth. What am i suppose to know prior to this interview ?

I didnt even have time to look at the compass test !!!

PLease anyone ?? help me out !!! :(

CHEERS

[orangeboy]

alvin, from what was conveyed to me by one of the HR personnel, if you are an ab initio applicant you must be a HKID holder, unless you were in the interview process prior to the change in ruling by the HK immigration which was late 2011/early 2012. You can still apply, not sure if you will ever get a reply, but no loss in trying, I guess if they run out of HKID applicants then they can probably look at international ab intio applicants in large numbers again, but that's only a guess.


Marco, I believe your doing Stage 1A? If so, then it will be Compass test and JKI test only, unless they have changed the format again within the last 2 weeks. The JKI test should be reasonable if you have studied the JKI booklet and done a little extra research of your own. The level is about a BAK level. There are a couple of additional questions on the the company and the planes, but its not something in depth, just fairly general questions - They can hammer you in the interview with in depth questions :8

[Marco0208]

Hey Man,

Thanks for the reply, they said if i pass the 1A test then i will immediately be on the 1B test in the afternoon which comprises of Interview with both Personal and Technical Questions, Abstract Reasoning Test and CPP Personality Test, will the JKI knowledge be enough, i have been googling weather front and some aerodynamic knowledge on youtube !!

Man !! I dont wanna embrassed myself tomorrow !!

[alvintanwc]

Hey orangeboy, thanks for the info. It kinda sucks as my county have almost zero chance of ever becoming a pilot. Thanks again.

[SloppyJoe]

You have your interview tomorrow and you spent a couple of days reading the book. :D

[flyber]

@orange. Thanks for the update. All the ab initio non hkid holders who were in the interview process prior to the hkid immigration ruling have all been placed on a waiting pool I myself included before we can progress with the interview if it ever happens to.

[Marco0208]

Yep ! No jokes !

I did not expect they will accept me despite i hold an masters degree in science!

They send me the booklets 9 days ago. I had to tidy up my UK home and flew back to HK this monday !

I will be proud if i got to 1B

:p

[Marco0208]

Well ..... had the test this morning, the JKI test was alright but in the compass test, the orientation test and the TECHNICAL questions were a mess !! So i failed it :p !!! Felt i could have done a lot better and am going to reapply within 6 months !!

I knew one of my brothers passed 1A stage so congragulations again and how was it ??

;)

[Fabby88]

who did their initial today ?

[Marco0208]

Now its time to practice my maths and physics, then I WILL BE BACK !!!! in six months time:=

[krisER]

Is there anyone here going to AE stage 2 on 8-9 Oct.? Please PM me if you are. :)

[yugo986]

I got the call for the ab initio for Oct 3rd. Very unexpected since I applied around Feb.
Just curious if anyone in HK wants to work together before the big day?

[olliem777]

Morning chaps, I'm glad to see there is some life in this thread.

my question, to any one that has been through it or is going through the cadet programme is... I sent in my application about a month ago, i'm aware that a waiting period is normal but how long can i expect to wait for a call to interview? or to say sorry not succesful to that matter.

I'm the holder of an ICAO CPL ME IR, so naturally i applied for the qualified cadets.

any help would be much appreciated!

happy landings!

[theflying]

hi

Is there anyone who recently got invited for an initial interview holding an ATPL, +1500hrs?

Or are they really looking for cadets with little experience (250hrs)?

Thanks!

[lap1104]

Hello,

Just wondering if a couple of my questions could be answered.

Where are the interview and assessment locations? I noticed on the application form you can choose. Just wondering if they have them in a variety of countries?

What is the all important price tag of this scheme?

Thanks!

[SloppyJoe]

About GBP1,000,000 over the course of your career if you stay at CX for all of it.

[Ianp83]

Ollie

I also applied about 6 weeks ago. I chased after 3 weeks of not hearing and got what seem to be a personal response sayingthat they would consider my application along with others when they next recruit from my region (uk)

I'm just enjoying the ppl at the moment and will see what comes next

[pilotchute]

Ianp83. If you only have a PPL why are you applying? It seems pretty clear from reading this forum that only Hong Kong ID card holders will be considered for ab initio regardless of what the website says.

Also, six weeks isn't very long in Cathay world. The wait times quoted on here for a call back range from 4 to 18 months.

[lonestar2012]

I attended the interview in Aug but didnt make it. I would suggest not to take COMPASS test easy. Good luck Guys.

[orangeboy]

The COMPASS test is very draining, especially if you've had a full day of other tests and interviews. Get a good nights rest if you can.

[olliem777]

thanks for the insight. i will make afollow up call or email. did you call or email them to follow up your application.
good luck with the PPL!

[Fabby88]

LoneStar, how long did it take for you to receive the rejection email ?

[tobyd]

Anyone going to interview on the 10th/11th October for stage 2? PM me if you want to meet up out there to go through some stuff.

[Kayne_MA]

Any Flight Graders of CP54 heading down to FTA on mid-OCT?

[lonestar2012]

Well by the time you get to your hotel from Cathay City, the Rejection/Approval email will be in your mailbox. This is how fast you get the reply.

[Fabby88]

I thought the rejection is really fast,
but no news is good news for Cathay

[Redondo]

I believed lonestar2012 is referring to stage 2 in HK where it comprises of 2 days.
In the evening of day 1, you will received a rejection/approval letter stating whether you make it to day 2. If you are successful, you will have to report to them in the morning. If not you are free to tour around HK till your departure time.

[Fabby88]

Im still waiting for my reply for Stage 2... its been 2 weeks already, and got nothing back yet..
they said to me that i would hear a reply within 2 weeks..
Fingers crossed..

[lonestar2012]

You are right Redondo, that's what I was referring to.

Fabby88 Do you mean you are waiting for your Stage II interview? I had to wait for 3 months to get their reply.

[Fabby88]

3 Months?!

they told me when i finished 1a and 1b that it would be within 2 weeks for the notice... i hope i passed... still waiting for the results.

[lonestar2012]

Yes I had to wait three months, and by that time I pretty much lost all hope and after three months out of nowhere their email suddenly appeared telling me that I have passed the 1st interview. Patience is a virtue.

[pilotchute]

Just a quick one to ask the time between stage 2 and flight grading? A week, a month? Anyone got a rough idea?

[orangeboy]

Depends on a few things:

1. Whether your medical has any required follow ups
2. When the next available batch is
3. Whether you are ab initio or advanced entry

Could be a week to over a month, just depends on the above said factors.



On another note, on the Cathay careers website, they have now changed the wording of the ab initio requirement to "HKID Card Required". It is no longer "HKID holders will be given preference". Guess that settles that then.

[pilotchute]

Orangeboy,

As much as I appreciate your answer I would like to hear from someone who has been through the process recently or is waiting to go to flight grading now.

If you have no medical problems that need following up or anything else that might slow things down, what have been the average wait times from stage 2 to flight grading?

I heard today it could be as long as 4 months. Is that possible?

[blade]

Isn't orangeboy right on..Would it not depend on at least those things,plus a few more,and wouldn't what has happened in the past have no bearing on what happens in the future..

How can anyone give you an answer on how long it will be will so many variables..

So just relax and wait,if you are not able to wait you are trying to get into the wrong profession

[Redondo]

Agreed with Orangeboy and Blade. Be patient.

[flyber]

With the recent change of ab initio requirements on the cx website ie " Permanent HKID card required", does it mean those ab-initio non-hkid holders who were in the interview process prior to the HKID immigration ruling will now be thrown out of the waiting pool?

[tacsniper]

has anyone email a recruiter? If so how long before you get a reply?

[MSCHOI]

Anyone is doing CX flight grading CP 55 Batch 1? It starts on the 27th of October. If you are part of it please contact me! I want to know you before hand! :)

[M Pereira]

Anyone going to flight grading 10-24th Nov? PM me

[kworrall]

Hi

Does anybody know the dates and locations of the initial assessment day

Kris

[yugo986]

I just did the stage 1 interview and didn't make it. :ugh:
Definitely don't take it easy on the compass test, I thought I did quite well and got the dreaded rejection letter the following day.

Anyone know what their policy of re-application is? They haven't replied to my email.

[XLAN]

Hi Yugo sorry to hear that, usually they will consider their application again after 1 year if it is not stated otherwise in the rejection mail. Hope this helps

[sugizo20]

Hi Yugo, what exactly is the compass test? There was no such thing when I applied 4 years ago.

[blacklabel92]

Hi Yugo986

I'm sorry to hear that you didn't make it, just keep trying - you'll get there eventually!

Don't mind me asking, but how was the personal/technical interview with CX?

[lonestar2012]

Sorry to hear that Yugo, I send them an email after my rejection, and they promptly told me that they would consider a new application after 10 months. Good luck for the next time.

[da_vichy]

Hey all

Does anybody know what the upper age limit is for entry into the programme as a cadet? If not, what is the oldest cadet that you know of?

Cheers

[lucky86]

I know a 40yo Cathay Cadet on the 61 week course.

[da_vichy]

Wow. Here I am thinking they might not accept anyone past their 30s! Good on them! What did that cadet do in their previous life?

[cx252]

I know a 40yo Cathay Cadet on the 61 week course.

which batch?

What did that cadet do in their previous life?

life is not easy for some of us.

[yugo986]

I never made it to the interview part unfortunately. One would have to meet all the test requirements to be eligible for stage 2.

FYI- Compass test is the computerized testing program CX.

Thanks for the support everyone.

[H E Pennypacker]

I just got a confirmation email for my initial B stage assessment next week. The email includes a 15min “compass test –control” which wasn’t mentioned in the first invitation email they sent last time. Can anyone who’s recently done the initial B stage tell us what’s involved? I’m guessing it’s a hand-eye co-ordination test, so is it just the same slalom and pedal/joystick test from initial A? Or something different like a flight director, keeping the cross centred type task?

[Ezreal]

hi guys,
I have submitted my application on late Sep.
and i read that some of u are undergoing the interview process
Is that mean i will have to wait a bit longer before the next round of interview?

[theflying]

any 1500hr + people that are in?

[Fabby88]

I just got an email from Cathay saying im shortlisted to Stage 2, but i dont know when yet
is there any tips and what to prepare for from you experienced people who took the Stage 2 already ? Any help would be appreciated !! PM me if you want!!
Thanks !!!

[The Kelpie]

D n B

I'd brush up on your full IF flying skills if I were you as I believe it is a full IF flight with approaches.

Good Luck

The Kelpie

[Farenheit06]

Hi all,

I posted my application form in late September and I wonder how much time I should expect before getting a convocation from recruitment team. Does anyone of you have a clue ?

Many thanks to all for your answer.

[lipoho]

Did anyone still waiting for the replay for the sate 1a interview?because I submitted my application on the early of July and I still didn't receive any feedback.

[flyer_spotter]

Sending in my application this week.

Any HKID holders from California here?

[Fabby88]

usually it takes a long time before you get called up for an initial interview..
expect to wait more than half a year.

[lipoho]

but I know some people get invitation for stage 1a after a month they apply.

I think if I put HK as my first prefer location, is this going to speed up the whole process?

[Fabby88]

you can try but i doubt it would,
there are so many applicants every month/yr
you are already the good bunch to be asked for intial interview
patience is virtue in Cathay world

[NotInTheNavy]

I have a copy of this I no longer require (11th Edition). PM me if you're interested.

I'll even throw in a copy of 'The Ultimate SO Guide, by Second Officers X, Y and Z', to keep things balanced :ok:

[heehee85]

Dear all,

I heard that there are seven sections of the compass test, including a technical test.
Anyone know the details of them?
What questions they ask in the technical test?

cheers

[orangeboy]

For the basic compass test (ab initio candidates), the technical test is actually a physics test. The level is high school level physics. Everyone gets slightly different questions, so there is probably a memory bank of questions which the computer randomly selects each time. There's about 10-15 questions from memory. e.g they give you a picture of several cog wheels and asks which one spins the quickest.

In the advanced compass test (advanced entry candidates), the technical test is more aviation related.

The hand eye coordination section is also different between the 2 tests. Advanced compass does a ILS type test where as the basic compass test has a slalom course and a pitch and rudder control type test.

Maths test is not overly hard, but requires good speed at calculations to finish. If you can do long divisions, additions, fraction, speed/distance etc relatively quickly, you should be fine.

Memory test is about remembering some numbers and then retyping them for the computer. Its things like radio frequency, altitude, heading and speed.

Orientation test, the computer will explain how to complete this task, and then based on reading the instructions CAREFULLY, apply your new knowledge to work out which is the correct answer. There will be an artificial horizon and ADF/RMI type indicator, and all you have to do is based on what these instruments are showing determine which aircraft matches the displays. There will be several aircrafts displayed obviously. You try and get through as many as possible in the time given. But please read the instructions carefully, if you don't understand how it works, you will get them all wrong.

[lipoho]

I found out that there should be one more test for the task management.

Please correct if I am wrong.

[orangeboy]

Ah yes, you are correct, forgot about that. That is basically entering information into an FMC type display, whilst cancelling warning lights.

[heehee85]

Thanks for the detailed description. It really helps.

I am wondering whether the paper work is allowed in the math test. I am not good at managing complicated mental math.

[wing boy]

I completed my Business degree last year with very good marks in all my subjects (Final GPA of 3.1). Over the past few months I have been flying once a week at the Central Coast Aero Club in Warnervale and now have 12 hours flying experience. I completed my Pre-solo exam a few weeks back and my instructor has indicated I am ready to go solo. The weather hasn't been great the last few times I have gone flying so I am yet to go solo. Weather permitting; I plan to go solo this Wednesday.

I intend on applying for the next round of cadetships with Cathay Pacific, Virgin Australia and Jetstar. I anticipate that my Uni marks, flying experience and passion will be sufficient to be seriously considered. In the mean time, I would like to keep flying and get my PPL however I am uncertain if it is worth getting my PPL if I will have to go through the whole process again (assuming I am accepted into a cadet program). My parents have said they will support me to get my PPL as long as I contribute also. If I do continue my training and get my PPL it will mean that I will have to pay for part of my PPL training, all of my cadetship training (if I get in) and also repay my uni degree loan which is $27k.


So my question is: Do you think having my PPL will set me above the rest when it comes to getting selected for a regular cadetship, or do you think I should complete my student training and then stop flying pending acceptance into a cadetship?

Please help!

[Juliette Alpha]

First of all, do you have a Hong Kong ID card? If not then you need to have a CPL just to be considered for the cadet program. I really suggest you research more into this as it doesn't seem you have done much. First of all, the training in the Cathay Cadet Program is paid for completely by Cathay, you are only bonded for 6 years of service. In the cadet program you will be assessed on your flying skills based on how many hours you have, that way they are not assessing someone with zero hours against a PPL holder. Getting a PPL won't hurt (apart from making flight grading harder) and it would show enthusiasm but in my opinion it won't help you that much.

[aronkari]

I sent in an advanced cadet application about a year ago but i haven´t heard anything from them, i´ve heard the wait can be long but is a year really normal? :uhoh:

[V_2]

From what I gather, if you apply at a time they are not really focusing on your geographic area, you are pretty much lost forever. Think I've been waiting about 30 months now ;)

[tarmac12]

I had an application in for just short of 2 years before I got a call to stage 1. I only started sending in updates after 18 months. I think that is what did the trick.

Every 4 or 5 months send and email to the recruitment address with an hours update. That way you stay in the loop (my opinion only)

When I went to stage 2 the only people with 250 hours or less were Hong Kong ID card holders. The rest of us had 1000 to 3000 hours. Think they may be shying away from the 250 Cpl's these days. That's just my opinion again.

[aronkari]

Yea i sent them my updated resume yesterday and they acknowledged, i don´t want to sound pushy and try to get information from them about the waiting time but i really thought due to the rapid expansion in asia that the process would be faster, but they must get allot of applications :}

[Bye Bye Baby]

Rapid expansion in Asia, maybe, but contraction in CX for sure.

[SkylineR34]

Has anyone received invitation to attend first test/interview in Nov in HK??

[magic_nic]

Anyone going for group exercise n paneal interview on 12th nov or that period? Wanna meet up n do some preparation tgt? If yes please pm me. Thanks.

[VeroFlyer]

Received these words in an email from Cathay Pacific a couple of weeks ago:

"We recently received the Training Plan outlining the crew requirements for 2013, and unfortunately it indicates a reduction in our training requirements from those originally projected for the next twelve months. The ground school quota for the short term future will be fulfilled by new joiners currently on course. Unless there is a change to the current projection, it looks unlikely that we will have a requirement to commence any new Second Officer TT courses within the next 10 to 12 months."

Don't expect much to happen anytime soon, sorry to burst anyones bubble, but no one else seemed to be posting the facts!

[Captain Dart]

...but there is some solace in that when CX decides to slow down recruiting, it usually means that the airline industry is about to pick up.

[pilotchute]

Vero,

First I must ask what stage of the process are you at? Was it addressed to you personally or was it a group send?

[VeroFlyer]

@pilotchute,

Passed everything about 6 months ago and was accepted onto the TT program. But then got this email 2 weeks ago.
And yes it was a personal email.

[pilotchute]

Vero,

The CX crew I have spoken to have said that they are still really short of SO's so I don't understand the projection. The only thing I can think of is that maybe they simply can't train 'em fast enough and now they have a training backlog.

[VeroFlyer]

Well I have no idea as I also have SO friends at CX who say the same thing, but i'd be more inclined to believe an email direct from HR.

[Bye Bye Baby]

Yep HR would never lie

[Mr Boombastick]

Hi,

I applied for the ab initio about a year ago, recently having now passed the uk ATPL exams, CPL etc I recently updated them.

I have now been offered an ab initio interview, however was hoping to qualify for the advanced entry as I am now eligible.

Does anyone know if this is the normal way of processing AE applicants or is it likely I will be required to complete the full 61 week course? (if I am successful of course)

Also, does anyone know if you can use a pencil and paper to work out the maths problems on the compass test?

Many thanks

[Fabby88]

Hi,

What are you guys talking about the TT course for Second Officer??
Would it affect the people on the final stage of the interview process for ab-initial entry . Thanks!!

[flyber]

Anybody with any idea as to whether Cathay will recall those icadets who were in the interview process prior to the immigration ruling? I was at stage 3 because I was put in holding pool.

[Wing Wing]

Hi SkylineR34,
I'll have my Initial A selection on this Thursday and studying hard on technical knowledge at the moment.
I am also looking for someone who is willing to share knowledges, study together thus supporting each other.

Please call me or Email me to [email protected]

[lipoho]

Is there anyone having their initial test on 21th Nov? Please PM me or reply on this post.Thz.

[Fabby88]

Is anyone having their Final on Nov26th ?
PM me if you are and maybe we can prep for the Group Exercise and Flight Planning beforehand tgt !

[tc925]

Hi:
I am going to have following Test A in December 2012 (Hong Kong) for Cathay Pacific Second officier. I am new into this and can anyone tell me how can I prepare for test A and B please?

My next question is I am not in Hong Kong and does anyone know I can do this in London.

Test A:
Technical multiple-choice Questionnaire (35mins)
Compass Aptitude Test (90mins)

Test B:
Interview with both Personal and Technical Questions (45mins)
Abstract Reasoning Test (45mins)
CPP Personality Test (45mins)

Thanks

[sarahrah345]

Hi guys,

Anyone having their final interview on 27th Nov?
Me and a friend are both on that day. There is likely to be one group only that day so it would be really nice if more of us can meet up before hand, get to know each other, make it more comfortable!

[theflying]

Anyone doing the Transition Training selections (5 weeks programme)?

[Globe master]

Anyone will have stage 2 interview on 28 this month??
Free feel to pm me to meet up before the interview!!
hope we can make it !!!


Cheers:ok:

[sarahrah345]

Wow had no idea they are interviewing so many people! Now there's 26th, 27th and 28th Nov?

[Globe master]

can anyone shed some light on the current compass test??
This is the part that i have completely no idea wt it is since CX always changes the content.
Plx share if u have idea on how to prepare for the test.

THanks in advance!!!;)

[EYFT]

anybody here doing the final stage during 29-30 November? The email I got says I'll be doing a computer based personality test (45 minutes). Is this the same thing as the compass test, or does this mean I won't be doing the compass assessment at all?

[kendricktkd]

hey mate, i will be there on 28th :) where are you from?

[Fabby88]

did you do one during your initial interview ?
and no the personality test not the same as the Compass test

[EYFT]

No, I didn't do a compass test during the initial interview. Did the technical MC test, the abstract reasoning test, and the interview. Since the guy didn't list the compass test, should I assume I won't be doing it at all? Don't want to show up that day and be surprised with it.

[orangeboy]

You shouldn't assume anything, and email them to confirm if you have to do the compass test or not.

They sometimes send out a generic email and forget to edit it to you specifically based on what you have already done. It would seem strange that everyone else has to do it, and you don't.

And as Fabby mentioned, the Personality test is not the COMPASS test and is a totally different thing.

[EYFT]

I did email the guy to ask about the compass test, but all he replied with is that I am required to do the personality test. I'm not sure if he's reluctant to tell me specifically about having to do it or not (maybe he's not allowed to?), or he really means to say I won't be doing it.

[orangeboy]

I don't think they would intentionally tell you that you didn't have to do something and then make you do it on the day, that would be unfair. The main thing with the COMPASS test is to brush up on your mental maths, basic physics (if doing the basic COMPASS), and maybe some memory exercises to help recall info. The other parts you can't really prepare for to be honest. So maybe just put a little time aside for this during your prep, and if you are made to do it then you'll be prepared in some way.:)

[EYFT]

Guess I should do some basic physics prep just in case then. Thanks for the help!

[orangeboy]

pyhsics, only if you are doing the basic COMPASS i.e. ab initio. Advanced COMPASS does an aviation knowledge test, not sure what is in that.:)

[pilotchute]

A question to all having stage 2 around the end of the month.
Is everyone Advanced Entry or Ab initio?

Cheers

[Globe master]

FYI , Ab initio

[pilotchute]

Just asking 'cause I heard that all AE has been put on hold for a while. Can anyone confirm this rumour?

[crwjerk]

Yes. Those on course in ADL will start in HK upon "graduation", those already waiting for a course or being interviewed now will have to wait some time for a course date. Ab initio only to be processed.

[rodrigues]

Have read that the airline is still accepting CV's and interviewing potential cadets.

[crwjerk]

Do the interview then, just don't leave your current job as you won't have a course date for at least a year. ( at this stage )....... Cx training plans change though.

[Dingowave]

Not sure if its been mentioned before but http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swf is an awesome site for practicing the reasoning test. It's exactly the type of questions you get on the day.

Also seen that flightdeckfriend.com has got a free interview brief for Cathay with interview questions. Looks like it's worth a look.

[tchanhk]

heard rumours that the cx are not taking anyone on atm.

is this for all three course? 62wk, 32wk and 5wk

if so might have to slow down my training...

[vach]

For those who are going to stage 1a interview, would you tell me when did you send the application? Thanks.

[SMOC]

Taking 200 S/Os in 2013.

for all three course? 62wk, 32wk and 5wk

60 + 70 + 70 respective, for each of the courses

[Fabby88]

what do you mean by not taking anyone?

[cx252]

how many cadets get hire when they are in their 30s?

[SMOC]

Cathay has three recruitment streams for its second officers. At the entry-level it has a 55-week ab initio cadet programme for those with little or no aviation experience. These will tend to be young graduates and Hong Kong identity card-holders, says Crawford. About 60 of the 200 recruits in 2013 will come via this route.

Cathay Pacific operates 137 aircraft including Boeing 777s

For those with more experience - usually a commercial pilot's licence - Cathay offers a 32-week programme, which ends up with an instrument rating and a seat in the cockpit of one of the airline's fleet. Recruits can range in age from 23 to 48, says Crawford, and will come from all over the world. Around 70 of the 200 intake will complete this course.

Finally, the highest level of entry is a five-week transition training programme for holders of airline transport pilot licences (ATPL), with around 70 of the 2013 recruits expected to go through this process. The three streams give Cathay a "good mix of experience coming into the cockpit, with a global flavour", says Crawford.


CHINA CAREERS: 'Career airline' Cathay looks for second officers with an eye to promotion (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/china-careers-career-airline-cathay-looks-for-second-officers-with-an-eye-to-promotion-378037/)

[cx252]

200 pilots, thats impressive, anyone leaving? :ugh:

[Bye Bye Baby]

Just playing catch up as per usual.

[r0n]

Guys!

Hope you are all doing good!

I will have my stage 2 interview on 11th Dec 2012. Anyone has the same date arranged pls PM me so that v can practice group exercise and flight planning together. I hope we can all make it through. Good Luck!

[tipsy.skipsy]

All on hold !!!

[cx252]

All on hold !!!

on coming Christmas season.:=

[angel83]

Hello everyone


I did my 2nd stage in HG last week...

I applied over 3 years ago and finally got 1st stage in july...was quite easy (i think)

This time..not so much... we were 5 3 abinitio 2 AE ...only 1 ab initio hong conger got in.

Everything went fine for me (at least i think) except the interview..i was the last person of the day and they were running late so not a good start anyway..

HR ok...but techincal guy was awful....i hope you don't get it (because it was not only with me ...we all had a hard time with him)

He was more playing mind game than really testing your knowledge. And really made me feel like I was a piece of mud (even though I still feel today i did study enough and knew my stuff)

Bad luck bad timing...HR also told me AE were on hold....

and it was confirmed by a friend the next day...he got accepted 3 weeks ago but will only have his flight grading in 6-9 months and AE has been suspended for 2 years .

So...good luck to those that goes now, i think you ned to be even better than in norma time. and please let us know if you get in...i would be interested to know.

and if you have questions please PM no problem .

Good luck to all ! and relax! it is not the end of the world :)

[kitcanfly]

is anyone going to CX's initial stage? or just finished it?

i wanna confirm the new arragement is like that or not

thx a lot

Initial A:
- Technical multiple-choice Questionnaire (45mins) JKI-booklet related

- Compass Aptitude Test (90mins)

Initial B
- Interview with both Personal and Technical Questions (45mins)

- Abstract Reasoning Test (45mins)

- CPP Personality Test (45mins)

[PPRuNeUser0163]

Anyone know the real reason as to why AE/Tt courses have been delayed yet ab initio cp allowed to continue into next year?

[VeroFlyer]

TT applicants also delayed for 10 months...

[orangeboy]

Maybe they don't need too many people in the next year, and since ab initio takes over a year to complete anyway, there is no real need to cut back on the course. AE and TT on the other hand are completed in significantly less time, and courses starting within the next year are probably going be too much when you factor in ab initio course already started and will be completed within the next year or so. But thats only my guess.

It does also seem strange that people have been told and received confirmation that AE courses have been deferred, yet, in the flightglobal article, they still intend to hire quite a number of candidates through the AE and TT streams in 2013 quoting the source of information as the manager of flight crew recruitment. Also, why continue interviewing candidates when there is the intention to defer FG and course start dates?
:confused:

[orangeboy]

FYI,new cadet pilot page.

http://www.cathaypacificcadetpilots.com.hk/

[PPRuNeUser0163]

According to that page just posted by orangeboy, says the AE/TT courses are still running/can apply for.. strange given the other things we have been hearing?

and then to boot pretty much the whole website seems to be geared towards the 61 week ab initio course and local applicants! so is it that cx are looking to hire more locals (onto cp courses) hence this new site and hold on ae/tt or is it for some unrelated reason:confused:

[TeaTowel]

I notice they don't mention pay on the new website. I have been following this thread but can anyone say what the pay is now and is there a housing allowance?

Thanks,

TeaTowel

[lipoho]

did anyone finish stage 1b recently? Because I am confused with the reasoning test and personality test.

[ASH1111]

Yes, I wonder why pay isn't mentioned? Surly if that was a selling point, it would be there, correct? If you pay well, don't you use that in your advertisement? You don't think they are playing on boyhood dreams, and vision of shiney airliners, to get you to pay no attention to the actual number transferred into your HSBC every month do you? I am continually astonished at how expensive Hong Kong is, and is becoming every day. I feel quite bad for these bright eyed chaps, coming with the best of intentions, that are going to get financially slapped silly.

[cx252]

give some rooms for further Salary adjustments.

[PiuYi]

Hi everybody

I'm a 24yr old from Vancouver and got my PPL earlier this year. I applied to the Cathay Pacific CPP, passed the 2 interviews in Hong Kong, and did my flight grading in Adelaide in May.

However, in Adelaide, I noticed the flight graders were often not pleased with my prior training. The examiners would say things like "I never understand why they do this in Canada..." and would find faults in exercises I've done exactly the same to pass my exam here (ie. practice forced landings). I had passed my Canadian flight exam just weeks before my flight grading so my flying should have been in tip-top shape.

Is there a stigma or reputation with Canadian pilots abroad? My flight graders were all British or Australian, one was trained by US Air Force. I'm confident my flying was decent, and their comments made it sound like it was Canadian training they were having problems with and not something I had done personally, which has led me to these suspicions.

Are Canadian pilots not looked at favourably in other parts of the world?

[orangeboy]

I doubt it has anything to do with Canadian pilots in general, its probably more the techniques you were taught. FTA obviously has their own standards and views as to the "correct" techniques, and if your training is different to what they believe, then instructors are likely to say so and try and get you to do things their way. After all, if you pass, you have to adopt their ways, and part of the grading is to see how well you can adjust and even accept criticism (it says this in the FG documents that you get).

FG isn't only about your flying skills (I would highly doubt they would get any ab initio cadets who were the perfect flyers), its also about your attitude, rate of learning, ability to adapt, professionalism and many other things. Sometimes you may pass FG at FTA, but Cathay still may not offer you a cadetship. That is why they have now stopped instructors from giving Flight Graders any form of feedback after each flight.

[kitcanfly]

then what's yr FG result? are u in CPP now?

[flyber]

@orangeboy, do you mean the flight instructors no longer write the feedback after each flight test during grading? I wonder what is the essence of grading if feedback is not given. How will the management know how a candidate fared on?

[orangeboy]

Instructors no longer give feedback (well they aren't meant to) to the candidate. The scoring is purely for the eyes and ears of the instructors, FTA and Cathay Pacific.

This is because previously instructors would give positive feedback to the candidate, giving them the impression they had passed, and then only to be denied a position by CX.

[rodrigues]

Between the article posted recently stating CX's intention of hiring 200 SO's in 2013 and the contrary rumors of recruitment becoming suspended until 2014, has anyone officially ascertained the actual status of the Second Officer Programme?

For what's it's worth, I am a potential Advanced Entry cadet, who after failing to progress through my first interview, was asked to (and has) re-applied after 6-months had elapsed.

[orangeboy]

I've seen a letter from CX to an AE candidate that their course will be deferred for 10-12 months due to a "change in their recruitment requirements" during that period. (I can't remember the exact wording, but it was along those lines)

I can't remember exactly, but they were either in AE 21 or AE 22.

[flyber]

Iam a bit surprised on what could be the "change in recruitment" which has occurred for AE. My 12 months deferral as a icadet ab initio will be over by February 2013 but with that change, seems like it's another year wait. talk of cx...

[orangeboy]

I think it relates to them not needing as many pilots in 2013, hence the deferral of AE and TT courses until 2014.



Have they gotten back to you about your situation as in international applicant that was deferred?

[rodrigues]

"...We do not have any plan to open any Advance Entry Course in 2013. And at the meantime we will continue the recruitment in 2013 with preference goes to HKID permanent card holders.
Best Regards,
Flight Crew Recruitment"

[rodrigues]

Having read that they are recruiting approximately 70 AE Cadets (200 total) next year, I wonder how that leaves potential AE, non-HKID holders cadets next year?

[PPRuNeUser0163]

rodrigues,

Why would they say that and then continue interviewing for ae/tt? Makes no sense!
They are only interviewing/hiring for ab initio cpp cadetship as of now..and even for that seems downscaled

[rodrigues]

They have stated that current AE cadets will be put on hold, but they will continue to recruit more AE cadets to increase the pool size. I can't justify their business decision, I just know what i'm told.

CHINA CAREERS: 'Career airline' Cathay looks for second officers with an eye to promotion (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/china-careers-career-airline-cathay-looks-for-second-officers-with-an-eye-to-promotion-378037/)

[flyber]

@orangeboy, Not yet. Iam yet to get any communication from them regarding my deferral of 12 months.

[vancityflyer]

What does AE and TT stand for?:O

[seneca208]

AE- Advanced Entry
TT- Transition Training

[pkan51]

Got a question about the fleet size, I am studying for the initial selection.

Here on the website it stated the current inventory is 136
Cathay Pacific - About Us : CX Background (http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_HK/aboutus/cxbackground/factsheet)

but here I counted all the aircraft B747, B777, A330 and A340 total to be 113
Boeing 747-400, Airplane Fleet Information - Cathay Pacific (http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_HK/whatonboard/ourfleet/b_747_400)

The only different from the two is the number of B747. Ont he fact sheet listed 23 more. I wonder if they ask what is the size of the fleet which number should I give? thanks.

[vancityflyer]

Thanks for that Ben... I ended up figuring out AE but TT was eluding me lol

[SloppyJoe]

One includes cargo the other does not.

[pkan51]

thanks that is what I guessed. Do I need to study information for both sides for the test or just the passenger side?

[pkan51]

Thanks I been studying the passenger side, but last night I just found out about the "About us" page, which the information is a little bit different.

I might be over thinking this but whats the answer to how many destinations is there for Cathay Pacific?

https://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/helpingyoutravel/destinations

Here stated 167 destinations worldwide, however most of them are network flights which CX does not have direct flight to. Not sure if I should count the DA and joint operation flight.

I assume 43 is the number of countries that CX have flight to.

Thanks got my 1a test coming Monday, wish me luck.

[The Mixmaster]

For those undergoing selection, a free Cathay Stage Two Selection briefing pack just added to flightdeckfriend.com :ok:

[fozzipoop]

Study both passenger and cargo sides. I was asked about their cargo aircraft in the initial interview.

[XLAN]

No, radio telephony is not part of the test when I took it several months ago.

[Timocracy]

For questions about fleet and latest destinations download the latest annual/interim financial report to stockholders. Then you'll have a firm baseline to work from, the website will give you different answers on different pages depending on when they were updated and these things are constantly changing.

In the interview I was asked "How many aircraft does Cathay Pacific have?". Just rote learn the table from the report and read it back to them until they tell you to stop.

[tatsit]

does the term "right of abode in Hong Kong" in Cathay's ab initio requirements mean that only Hong Kong citizens can sign up for the cadetship?

[Cpt. Underpants]

Here:

Right of abode in Hong Kong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_abode_in_Hong_Kong)

Took me all of 30 seconds.

[ixg888]

Triple like lol

[CodyBlade]

transit..

Hey you got to grab the bull by the horns man!

Your 'Singaporeaness' in showing up lah,don't let Capt. U.p take the Mickey..

[pilotchute]

I am in the position of being told that I am in a "Flight grading hold pool". There is no movement in the pool predicted until the end of 2013. I wonder how many people are in said hold pool? Anyone got an idea?

I've been told that the 12 month hold is the worst possible scenario but don't be surprised if it is longer. I'm sure this kind of uncertainty will have the hold pool considerably depleted by the time they get around to flight grading people again. Regionals in Australia and the US are having big recruitment drives and I'm sure some people won't wait around.

I have some decent hours already and knocked back two other interview offers because of my stage 2 interview with Cathay. One company has agreed to offer me another interview date which I will be attending soon.

Anyone in the same boat?

[sugizo20]

So you tend to do nothing for 12 months. I think this is not worthy.

[ixg888]

Hong Kong's immigration law really did damage our hopes of flying the big green machine. Too bad.

[ground to air]

Care to elaborate 888 ?

[greatbattle]

Sabotaging your flying dream? You've gotta be kidding me right. What about those LOCAL before the Immigration ruling? did it not sabotage their dream as well? Being born in this place hoping to join the flag carrier but realizing more than half of its cadets are expatriates. It's like WE.. are the minority. People used to crowd, or is still crowding into this program, the 61-week course, is because they can still enjoy a year free training out of the citizenship boundary, and I'm so proud of our HK immigration finally doing something to protect it's own people, to protect jobs from being landed on other's people hands. I'm talking about the CPP ofcoz. Just think about it, what do you feel if it happened in your home country that a company kept hiring expatriates to do things that you're well capable to do it?
I may sound a bit selfish but I'm just speaking for this minority group.

[ixg888]

Yah yah i had no idea.. :ok: the idea is all yours.

[chan1008]

Anyone doing stage II on 31/1, I suggest we meet up and practice together.

Kindly send me a private message if you are doing Stage II on that day.

See you, thx

[flyber]

What about those ab inition non-hkid who were already in the interview process prior to the immigration ruling?

[TruthSeeker6]

Well said gents. These cadet program and even eventually all pilot positions at CX should be for locals only. In looking at this thread, the whiniest people are the expats who complain about not having this or that, but they forget they make much more than HK’s average household income even if they don’t get any longer the housing allowance. People like Dan Buster should just go elsewhere if they want to complain about CX. Sad to see that foreigners feel entitled to something that should be for the locals only.

[Juliette Alpha]

If someone is more qualified than a local, why shouldn't he get in? Please don't say that it's a huge conspiracy and expats were being chosen over local people, the expats that got into the Ab-initio program got in because they were better that the other candidates, if an expat is more qualified than a local then the expat should get the job no?
Sabotaging your flying dream? You've gotta be kidding me right. What about those LOCAL before the Immigration ruling? did it not sabotage their dream as well? Being born in this place hoping to join the flag carrier but realizing more than half of its cadets are expatriates.

No it didn't sabotage their dream, why is it a problem if half the cadets are expats? If they are more qualified than the local candidates then what is the problem? It wasn't sabotage rather an increase in competition, if you're good enough then you should be able to get in, the cadet program is not an easy pass to becoming a pilot and the job should go to the best candidate.

I think the reason why they claimed they didn't have enough number of qualified local cadets was that the old ICAO test killed off a large portion of supply (You know why....). Now this problem is gone and everything back to the right track, great!

English is the language of aviation, it is also the main language spoken at cathay if you don't speak it very well then you're going to struggle, even ICAO level 4 is a bit on the iffy side when working for an airline like Cathay. Again it's about qualifications if an expat speaks better English than a local then what is the problem.

Cathay becoming an only local airline? Highly doubtful, firstly its run by swire which is an English company and secondly there simply aren't enough candidates to do it, qualified pilots or qualified cadets.

I was born and raised in Hong Kong, you guys just need to stop viewing it as 'our' cadet program and start realizing that there are other people out there who want it just as much as you or even more and that if you are not as qualified as an expat you should not get the job.

[TruthSeeker6]

CX is a local airline. Although owned by Swire, it is registered and headquartered in Hong Kong as it has since it’s founding. It’s target market are people from Hong Kong, it’s hub is in HKG, even Air China has a nice stake in the airline, a stake which I would have no doubt would grow in the future. So with all this, if it’s not a “local airline” then where is it’s home???

Every country, including where I live, the US, has some sort of policy limiting foreigners from taking jobs that can be filled by locals. To be a pilot for a US carrier, one would have to be a US Citizen or registered alien. In Europe it seems even stricter but same protection for its residents. Asia is no different, just look at Air Asia or SIA’s cadet programs, they all require you to be a permanent resident of their country. CX seems to have allowed anyone through the door at one point which I am surprised as I can see CX getting burned down the line for allowing such policies.

Speaking good English, although important, I doubt is a barrier for many especially from the former English colony. Truth of the matter is, there are enough kids from a city of 7 million from HK who is able to pass and fill CX’s requirements for the cadet program, I wouldn’t even be surprised if I were to find out there are a few hundred CPL holder with HK ID in HK who could qualify for the AE.

[schweizer2]

I secretly hope the programme will go back to HKID only.... perhaps due to selfishness and the hopes that I may one day be able to convince CX for another attempt. Singapore, Malaysia and many others are strictly local and HK should be no different. I also believe that most, not all, non HKID cadets will jump ship when the opportunity arises.

HKID CPL holder and still job hunting :{

Knowing CX doesn't want you is tough.. but having to leave HK :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[orangeboy]

CP54 has a non HKID holder in the course. They are probably one of the last non HKID holders to get on to the ab initio course.

[Cpt. Underpants]

The Hong Kong Immigration Department also ruled that the intent of the cadet program was to enable LOCAL PEOPLE (Chinese) to enter aviation as a career, not as a gateway for cheap labour.

I agree 100% that the cadet program should only be for permanent HKID holders. All other programs should be aimed at experienced pilots, not this laughable excuse of an induction program that neither selects not trains the candidates based on experience and suitability, just a willingness to accept lousy T&C.

[pilotchute]

SIA has been taking Malaysians and Indians in their Cadet programme for a long time now. You know why? Because they sometimes find it hard to source enough locally suitable applicants.

Why would Cathay take a Westerner over a local if they had enough locals getting through all the testing?

An Airline down the road from EK took some Westerners on as Ab initio cadets not long ago because they too could not get enough locals through.

[wongsuzie]

Don't worry the HYAA will come up with a few candidates.

AE should be for HKID holders only.And I am glad it's being adjusted that way.

As for SQ do some research on how un-happy locals about their recruitment policies.[start form the 'self-sponsored' CPL/ATPL thread]

JA, if it looks like a Duck it's not necessary a DUCK i.e selling the stake to the Chinese changed the whole ball game...

[ixg888]

Well, well shout out to em outsiders better step up our game, locals are getting pretty uptight communism at play.

[pilotchute]

Wongsuzie,

The local singaporeans might be unhappy about the recruitment arrangements but SIA has a standard to keep. I'm pretty sure the Malaysians get paid the same as the locals (Meaning I don't think there is a financial incentive to hiring non Singaporeans). Correct me if I'm wrong please.

As for Cathay I would say that if the airline stop paying for flight training the pool of locals would dry up overnight. There is no way the airline could sustain it's current operations on a local only hiring policy let alone cope with any growth.

Locals and expats are on a truly level playing field now. We get paid exactly the same as you do. Why spend 12 months training someone when you can do it in 6 months or six weeks? Doesn't make financial sense.

[ixg888]

Couldn't agree more. however, we can never erase the fact that some feel, (A) certain amount of ownership in an airline embedded in their own country, which I feel sad about because most of us pilots that aspire to fly certain brands that we grew up with, only to be shun due to citizenship rights. I admire CX for what they did, Opening up their doors to all nationalities and I hope in the end it will all be about a certain candidates skill and qualifications that would matter not their ID card passport and whatsoever.

" CX is an equal opportunity employer " and this is the tag line that keeps my hopes alive..

[SloppyJoe]

be about a certain candidates skill and qualifications

And what would those be for the fresh out of school cadets CX hire? Not something that is lacking in HKG from locals so why open it to foreigners?

I can say with 100% certainty that where you are from an unskilled kid could not get a visa to work as a pilot.

[Cpt. Underpants]

ixg

"Cathay is an equal opportunity employer" is being misunderstood.

It applies to gender, age and disabilities, not nationality or lack of qualifications. It's accurate only within the HKG context and (I believe) not meant as an across-the-board, sweeping statement to the effect that they will hire anyone. The are many other factors at play.

[ixg888]

That skill would be a cpl/ir and would still sacrfice that to get in ab-initio. With no complains whatsoever. Just love for the brand.

[Chocolove]

So I've been selected to do the initial interview in Hong Kong in the new year, Yay! but the problem is I am back in Canada now. If I send them an email, stating that I can't make it but would still like to be considered for interviews they hold in Canadian cities, will they just pass me over? seems likely seeing how competitive this thing is.

[SloppyJoe]

If you think it requires skill to get a CPL/IR it just shows how lacking in experience you are. I expect next you will tell me the expertise you are bringing to this airline is 250hrs.

[ixg888]

Cherrs mate. No pun intended. Peace.

[ixg888]

Hi chocolove. The solution is simple. Call.

[schweizer2]

Originally designed for locals and should remain that way.
Many HKID card holders would probably like to work in Australia or Europe but cannot due to immigration or other issues.

This is a benefit that only an HKID holder should get just like most locals would not be able to apply for the BA course because they cannot live in Europe or Jetstar because of strict Australian visa requirements.

[pilotchute]

Lets get the story straight.

Cathay now only hire HKID card holders for the ab initio programme. This I totally agree with. The reason that non locals were being considered was because at one point they were struggling to get enough locals through the recruitment process. The HK dept of immigration has stopped this so it's now a non issue.

As for the AE and TT programmes lets talk about what you need. Sloppyjoe says 250 hours isn't a skill. No its not but read on.

AE 250 hours with 100 hours PIC minimum. The people I interviewed with bar one had at least 1000 hours more than this minimum.

TT An ATPL with 500 hours on multi engine a/c greater than 2000kg.

Now I don't know how the AE and TT programs are stealing jobs from locals as I doubt there are no more than a couple of HKers around the world holding these quals. I know a couple and they didn't make it through the interview process. That's not CX's fault.

As for foreigners working in OZ Schweizer let me think,

REX sponsors type rated Saab 340 Captains from overseas.
Skywest was sponsoring ATR 72 Capt's and FO for introduction of type.
Jetgo is currently sponsoring type rated ERJ 145 Capt's and FO's.

Now Australia has a huge GA sector with plenty of out of work pilots yet some companies get away with hiring expats. If Australia has to get outsiders in from time to time I don't see how CX can function without getting expats in to crew their aircraft.

As I pointed out at the start, Ab initio is no longer open to non HKID card holders so please stop talking about it and saying that expats are taking all your jobs. It's getting a little tiring now. I suspect some people making these statements are Hong Kongers who have failed to secure a place on the programme and now place the blame on expats.

[schweizer2]

I have failed but I do not blame the expats. They were invited to join on their own merit. I simply believe a course that was designed for locals should remain that way and expat pilots should join for their experience as direct entries.

As for foreigners working in OZ Schweizer let me think,

REX sponsors type rated Saab 340 Captains from overseas.
Skywest was sponsoring ATR 72 Capt's and FO for introduction of type.
Jetgo is currently sponsoring type rated ERJ 145 Capt's and FO's.

How many locals have the experience to join there? Unlike Australia there is no GA where a local can get his HK licence and go fly bug smashers to build the hours and join skywest etc....

[pilotchute]

Scheiwer,

I will repeat again, The Ab initio programme is exclusively for locals now at CX. It was for a very long time and only took a handful of expats anyway during a very small window of time.

CX used to take DEFO's and the min was a couple of thousand hours jet. They now only ask for an ATPL licence with 500 hours multi and it's called TT.

They also used to take DESO's and the min was 1000 hours fixed wing with your ATPL theory completed. They now call this AE with the min reduced to 250 hours.

So it's back to the way it used it to. The only difference is that DEFO and DESO have morphed into AE and TT.

How is this stealing jobs from locals?

[wongsuzie]

''but SIA has a standard to keep''

You mean the guy from 'North' of Singapore who took off from TPE and ran into a excavator [s]? what 'standard' is that?

That fateful morning everyone else stopped flying except the Tropical livery.

Singaporeans males serve 1 month or more Armed forces reservists training EVERY YEAR for many years.

Other nationalities don't, if you are a 4th floor Bean counter looking at the bottom line, would you pay an employee 1 month salary for doing nothing?

[SloppyJoe]

Pilotchute.

Before telling people how it is you should make sure you are correct.

There is nothing similar to DEFO anymore. TT as you call it is the most similar to what DESO used to be. The minimums were 1000hrs but I have not come across anyone without a minimum of about 2000 hrs of which a substantial portion was multi crew. Most DESO entrants had 3000+ hrs with command multi crew time, not unusual for that to be in an airline ops jet.

AE as you call it is a new thing to get enough people willing to accept the poor contract as TT alone does not attract enough guys. They are doing this alongside ab-initio as it is quicker to get cheap bums in seats rather than waiting over a year for locals.

This is removing opportunities for locals as prior to the reduction of the contract it was either DESO or ab-initio. DESO they paid a premium to get guys/girls with experience that really could not be found in HKG. The AE program takes guys/girls with no real experience, positions that used to be for locals joining via the cadet scheme.

[pilotchute]

So the head of bean counting at SIA is going to stop all local recruitment of Cadets in favour of Malaysians and Indians so they can save a months salary?

Now I'm no expert but in most Reserve forces around the globe you will get paid for your Reserve service. This is regardless of if it's for a day or a month. I'm sure SIA doesn't have to pay it's pilots whilst they are on Military service. Why would they get paid by the Govt and SIA at the same time?

So what percentage of of the SIA pilot body is now made up of Cadets from India or Singapore? Any hard numbers?

Sorry but I just don't buy it!

[wongsuzie]

"I m no expert"

Exactly so..

You hv a lot to say about Cx and SQ.
Singapore nearly shut down their airline bcos of non Singaporeans.That resulted in a concerted effort to go more local.

You were CX AE and now on holding?

[wongsuzie]

''So the head of bean counting at SIA is going to stop all local recruitment of Cadets in favour of Malaysians and Indians so they can save a months salary?''
You obviously don't know the industry.

SQ has a 'standard' You imply locals are not suitable? Indians and Malaysians are ?

Singapore has highest GPD [higher than Swiss and Sweden]
Highest literacy
Highest ratio of Billion/Millionaires
Best health rate [debatable]
Highest education standard [Countries copy their curriculum]
Costliest property prices -higher than Monaco
Most expensive cars
Best food
Most expensive politicians

Its not because their locals are not capable but rather they are not attracted to the industry -too highly qualified.

Oh btw their are several Doctors who are flying for SQ and Lawyers too.
So there goes that theory..

[Victor_Vector]

You maybe right with alot of things you say there about Singapore (not about GDP PP though - Singapore is about 5th) but saying Singapore has the best food is just plain wrong! ;)

[pilotchute]

Sloppyjoe,

I never said AE and TT are similar to the old DEFO and DESO. I stated that they changed the mins and called them something different. My point was a TT only gets weeks six weeks training before type rating making it the closest thing to DEFO that CX now has. AE is now the closest thing they have to DEFO. I don't think I said at any point they were similar. Please read my post properly.

Judging from your post I think you want HKID card holders to be the only people getting recruited by CX? Is the case you put up as DEFO and DESO will never come back. Don't think that will work.

If AE and TT is a ploy to get cheap expat bums on seats (which I don't deny) then why don't you vent to Cathay management? No point sitting on Pprune and telling expats to stay away 'cause with the economic situation in most of the world people that normally wouldn't consider the C scale wages now find CX the only option for a job. Not just now but for a long time in the future. Airlines are still shutting down in Europe.

Without trawling through my previous posts I don't beleive I said that Indians or Malaysians were more qualified than locals but that the locals applying weren't getting through. As wongsuzie states the locals are not interested in flying for SIA it appears.

I can only base the content of my posts from speaking to former expat SIA and Cathay pilots.

[SloppyJoe]

CX used to take DEFO's and the min was a couple of thousand hours jet. They now only ask for an ATPL licence with 500 hours multi and it's called TT.

Maybe English is not your first language so you don't understand that by comparing the two like that you are implying that TT is the new DEFO.

I have never advised expats not to join. Please read my post more carefully.

DEFO and DESO will never come back. Don't think that will work.

Yes it would, they had people with thousands of hours queuing up for a jobs. DESO 3000+ hours with multi crew time, command time, jet/turboprop time. DEFO 6000+ hours with airline command time, widebody FO time, military jet time etc.

Along with the above there were a descent number of local cadets also getting in through ab-initio.

Again you should not lecture people on things you do not fully comprehend. Maybe your second hand info is out of date or you misunderstood.

[wongsuzie]

''The local singaporeans might be unhappy about the recruitment arrangements but SIA has a standard to keep'' [viz Indian and Malaysian cadets]

Don't play games, boy

''I can only base the content of my posts from speaking to former expat SIA and Cathay pilots''.

Ok I understand where the problem is...

[pilotchute]

Wongsuzie,

When I said they had a standard to keep I meant of the people SIA were sending off to do ab initio flight training. If the locals coming to interview at SIA headquarters isn't deemed suitable for ab initio training then they will look elsewhere. That was the intent of the comment. I by no means wanted to imply that any nationality is better at flying an airplane than any other.

Yes I am in the hold file and that is fine. Not everything happens in the time frame you expect it to.

[ixg888]

Happy holidays everyone! To all aspiring candidates and current cx crew!

[Stallone]

wow wow wow

why is there a debate about Singapore here?


for reservist, the govt pays the company for taking away their male employee for a period of 1wk-6wks every yr for a decade.

the downpoint isn't abt the money, it's abt the absence of the worker and who is to take over his duties while he's serving his reservist.

not just reservist, every combat fit male will have to pass a yearly physical test, failure of which will result in them attending 20 physical training sessions in the evenings, spanning 3months.

[GTC58]

Here are the CX cadet stats for 2012

14,538 cadet applicants
2,254 interviews conducted
244 Second Officers recruited

[kitcanfly]

only 15% applicants got interview?

[crwkunt roll]

Amazing isn't it? How many interviewers do you think there are? They couldn't handle any more. Also, you would think that the 15% would comprise the most suitable applicants. What happened there???

[Stallone]

very highly competitive

[cx252]

14,538 cadet applicants
thats massive. Local + overseas? In old days there are roughly 2000 - 3000 local applicants, which means more than quarters from overseas.

[pilotchute]

I think of the 2000 odd interviews conducted the figure would be stage 1 and 2 combined. As more than half flunk stage 1 I would say that only a few hundred of the interviews were stage 2.

If they interview 10 to 12 applicants a week for stage 2 any they interviewed 10 months of the year that would be around 400 to 500 stage 2's a year. Out of that maybe half get in so there is your 244 recruited.

Another thing to remember is the average time to stage 1 interview from application submission was 12 months for my group. Some a little more and some a little less. This would indicate most of the people who applied in 2012 didn't actually get an interview in 2012.

[Cathay744]

Did anyone is going to have stage 1b in hong kong on 10/1?

[cx252]

A Second Officer's starting salary package is around HKD45,000 per month.

Thought there was HKD33,000 for the Second Officer few years ago. new salary scale imply?

[orangeboy]

That $45000 includes the $10k housing allowance. Its closer to $50,000 now.

[orangeboy]

When you're in Adelaide you don't get paid a salary, you get about $100 AUD each week as an allowance.

It's only when you return to HK will you start getting that salary.

The cadet program has a 'forgiveable loan' for around $1.1 Million HKD, of which the 55 week cadets will use it all up to cover training costs.

For AE candidates they will actually be able to get part of that $1.1 million as a lump sump payment once they finish training (pro rata'd) because they only spend 32 weeks in Adelaide, so naturally they will not use up the whole $1.1 million that Cathay 'loans' to the candidate, and as such will receive the balance.

[GimpFeatures]

I've just joined CX as an SO myself, I signed a six year contract to 'pay back' the HK$1,100,000, the starting salary is HK$36,200, + pilot allowance HK$10,000, + hourly duty pay (assuming 84 hours) HK$3,500. Total HK$49,700.

I thought I'd research the cost of living in HK sufficiently to know what I was getting into before I even went to my first interview roughly two years ago. Things have changed since then, in particular the cost of renting a place of a similar size to Oz is unaffordable these days on the starting salary. Also for anyone who'd had savings and was planning to buy now cannot as you need 15% stamp duty on top of a minimum 10% deposit. I'm hoping over time the pilot allowance will be increased but in reality I suspect that the housing allowance of the senior pilots will be reduced over time in line with the HK pilot allowance.

I've come to the conclusion that this is a good way to get into aviation, but Cathay is likely just a 6 year stepping stone for many. The Swire guys will have done the maths and figured out that after two years of a cadet replacing an FO, we will have become cheap labor. If we leave after two years but before six, it's an additional bonus as they're lawyers will come calling for the training costs.

So far the job is good, the guys you fly with are good, after a short time though HK looses its charm.

[DDobinpilot]

Agree with 'gimpfeatures' on basically everything he has said there. I have been at Cathay for almost 2 years now and there is no real desire for 99% of the cadets to stay at Cathay for the long term. Even putting cost of renting a place aside the general cost of day to day living in Hong Kong is fairly high.

For now I'm fairly happy just to have a job, and the staff travel is a pretty nice bonus compared to alot of other carriers. But for me the reason I will end up leaving Cathay is even though once you upgrade to FO the salary is actually quite good, I'm not going to spend the next 30 - 40 years of my career potentially being payed a hell of alot less than a guy who joined 2 years before me. But hopefully CX will at somepoint in the coming years realise this and bring the benefits packages alot closer together....

Also just to add us cadets who joined 2 years ago never had to sign anything saying we'll pay back the 1.1 million if we leave so clearly the conditions are getting worse and not better..

[crwkunt roll]

I'm not going to spend the next 30 - 40 years of my career potentially being payed a hell of alot less than a guy who joined 2 years before me.
That's what you signed up for wasn't it???:ugh:

[AndontcallmeShirley]

No, he signed up for 6 presumably.

[jimbols6]

DDobinpilot,
two years in could you give us an idea of what the job is like, are you still enjoying it, how often do you go into sim to practice the hand flying, any news on when they may upgrade you?

rgds
Jimbols6

[AQIS Boigu]

Finally we are getting some opinions from real and current C scale SO's rather than speculative posts from potential applicants telling everyone that eating noodles and living in a shoebox won't be a problem...

KIDS...LISTEN TO THESE GUYS such as DDobinpilot or GimpFeatures...only they got the full story...

[Pilot852]

Anyone have any info/tips on the physics part of the compass test?
Got mine coming up on the 17th.
Thanks!

[flyhardmo]

Pilot 852

Despite all of the warnings, they still keep coming:ugh::ugh:

[jetjockey696]

Guys you will never stop them coming... its human nature. Just see CX as Pied Piper of Hamelin.

There enough information out there about the T & C, the workings of CX etc... Just let them be... a person learn by making mistakes...when they do, you have the privilege to say "i told you so:p". You cant keep holding there hands for ever, its dog eat dog world, besides in a few month they be flying a Big shiny jet.:sad:

[Captain Dart]

I think you mean, 'flying IN a big shiny jet'. They will only be making radio calls, filling in the CFP, carrying the blue bag and possibly manipulating the autopilot of 'the big shiny jet', IF the Commander or Relief lets them, while working off their bond...erm 'forgivable loan'.

And the jets don't stay shiny very long in the filthy South China air.

[wongsuzie]

Must be doing something right,our friends down south asking Capt to take unpaid leave:


From ****e Times:SIA asks pilots to volunteer for unpaid leave

[lucky86]

so how good was the previous package? i.e. A-scale

A lot of talk on how craap it is now, but nothing to compare with!

[CPilotP]

pilot 852

From previous posts, i thought the mathematics part of the COMPASS test has been changed to arithmetic questions, not sure if the physics part is needed.

[boxerpilot]

There are usually only 3 groups of people who would take the scheme. The cadets, the hopefuls and the informed. Sad to say not everyone is experienced or are able to make a critical judgement if comparisons are made to yesteryear. Time and again its been proven its worse in the outside. Plus for those trying to get into CX is almost like a brick wall for some. Despite unhappy people, very few leave. SIA has asked everyone to take unpaid leave from FOs to Capts. Cadet hiring has stopped. They have been using cadets for the longest time and many families in CX has traveled with them some time or other. Mind you, there is no apprentice phase like the CX SO programme. The SIA SOs are probationary first officers. No JFOs there. But there are less critical comment on those guys who are also predominately Asian. Just in a different playground.
When guys come in and say they wanna leave after 6 years. It's good news no? For the ones that DO stay.. Upgrades speed up. Perhaps packages improve (when people actually leave vs saying it)
Older chaps on A scale who won't take RA65 will all be looking at what's gonna happen to the first round of 55 year old guys. Most hope to see how the company will manage an there is always a wait and see behaviour.
For the cadets. Where are they gonna get free training these days? Look around and surplus guys floating around. Pay to fly jobs etc
Hopefuls on basings a well as getting the HKPA raised don't see thereality that you can't get into this marriage hoping your 'spouse' is gonna change just because you hoped so. Join with both eyes open and that doesn't come naturally. Similar to common sense.
I think what would be beneficial to most thinking of joining is for those who have articulately described how bad it is to be in CX to put forth a better argument of WHERE is the best place to apply to today.
Even the guys who were pro Middle Eastern airlines have been rather quiet of late. Cos all u have to do is read their forum and you know what is going on in Emirates and Qatar.
To be fair, my conditions on joining we're informed and I have done my fair share of military flying and instructing. Granted the system is not perfect. Granted that SOs aren't 'pilots' but apprentices. Even if it's just radio calls,carrying the blue bag etc. it's also another body to let the senior guys get rested, to earn the trust cos none of us were born pilots. It is an incremental approach, to be shown the ropes. For SOs to emulate the professionalism and observe standards that is renowned around the world.
Arguably, the pool of 'experienced pilots have shrunk around the world. Similarly Air travel is affordable by all which no longer makes it 'premium' as such.
Premium wages are long gone and where the line is drawn, you can't blame the system if you are in the wrong side of the line.
For most parts. I think most guys would be happy to see the ones that whine and whinge actually leave after 6 years or at 55.
Most people tend to néed 6 Cs
Cash, Condos, Cars, Credit ratings, College degrees and Comfort but increasingly the new generation has added 2 more Cs. Compare and complain.
It's a WIFM mentality out there. I have had my training experiences with these 'entitled' lot and have trained with some over the past year. What's In It For Me. (WIFM). Sign of the times.

[boxerpilot]

Sorry DB, it's 41 :)

[pilotchute]

Dan Buster,

I can sense reading between the lines that your having a swipe at DB. Is there a problem with his age?

I noticed on one of your posts that you were sick of training pimply faced cadets. Wouldn't you rather have someone on the flight deck with you that can talk about something other than how great HALO 3 is to play?

[anima]

Hi guys, I have been looking through all these pages for the past few months. Anyway I applied in early July and got a reply yesterday. HR emailed thanking me for applying etc but stated in the email that I have not been selected for an interview etc. Am I the only who one has not managed to get an interview before rejction? :(

[orangeboy]

Sorry to hear anima, but you are definitely not the first to not get an interview. There would be more people who don't get an interview than those who do. There are just too many applications for them to give everyone an interview. If you look back a few pages, there are figures for the amount of people that applied in 2012. Not sure how accurate it is, but it wouldn't be hard to accept those figures.


Keep your head up, do some extraresearch and study and reapply :ok:

[crwkunt roll]

There will be very few interviews this year so it's probably normal that most will get rejection letters, even though you probably meet the requirements.

[ChinaBeached]

A 41 year old aspiring to be a CX "cadet" SO is the same as a 41 year old aspiring to return to kindergarten so as to get on Sesame Street just for the desire to get on TV.

[shae]

Hi guys, I applied in early June and I got the call last wednesday. Will attend the written test on Feb 21. Anyone going on the same day?:)

[pilotchute]

China,

You have no idea what the motivation or reasons behind Boxers choice to be a SO with CX are and frankly I don't think that you have any business remarking on it.

I personally would rather spend 8-12 hours on the flight deck with someone who could hold a conversion about interesting topics and remember what life was like before everyone had an iphone glued to side of their head.

[boxerpilot]

Not aspiring. Nor am I a cadet SO but from the transition course. Not that it makes any diff to those who don't want the job anyways. Plus,I actually liked sesame street. I have done my time in the military. So there aren't aspirations or shiny jet 'syndrome' after actually knowing what Mach tuck is first hand. Surprised you are still here CB :) still contract flying in China?