Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme [Archive] - Page 18

SloppyJoe

20th Jun 2012, 09:49

The time it takes to let you know one way or the other will vary. The person who interviewed you may be flying somewhere the next day for a 5 day pattern or they may have a few days off and not want to work during that time so may not submit a report. The people who decide who progress once all information about you is submitted may have other things going on also and it probably wont be just one person. It is just the way it is at CX for a lot of things, many people who are in positions of power usually get to decide these things.

For any upgrade, SO to JFO, JFO to FO, or FO to CN, a group of guys get together and have a look over your past history, reports filed, simulator grades, anything on your permanent file, any crm issues (usually have you annoyed the wrong person), etc. This happens usually once a month when they can all get together. It would not surprise me if the same thing goes for the interview. They probably get together once a month to decide on the past months candidates. So if you interview a couple of days before they get together you will know very soon the outcome. If you interview the day after this meeting it will be a month before you hear. The guys/girls in the office are nice people so as soon as they have the information to email candidates they will do that as know it is hard waiting.

If there are other issues it may take longer, medical for example and they want clarification so it has to go through medical department. I know when I joined they used to get US confirmation that you could get a crew visa prior to a job offer.

It is all variable.

Joycekin

20th Jun 2012, 10:55

Thanks a lot for your reply. I'll keep my finger crossed and work on my preparation. Cheers

JoNvAn

20th Jun 2012, 14:56

Joycekin when did you attend the initial interview?
I have been waiting for almost 2 weeks and still have not received any call or e-mail.

Do anybody know if you will receive a rejection letter from CX if you failed?

Pyromania

20th Jun 2012, 15:04

Usually the rejection letter comes quite quickly - within a day or two.

I waited for about 2 weeks before I got called for Stage 2.

JoNvAn

20th Jun 2012, 15:13

Pyromania when did you attend the initial interview?
Did you attend oversea or HK?
I am very nervous as I am not sure if I failed or not...
Thank you in advance.

ocanadaperfect

20th Jun 2012, 17:33

jonvan, i'm from Toronto too. where did you have your stage 1?

JoNvAn

21st Jun 2012, 05:12

In Hong Kong.

Pyromania

21st Jun 2012, 13:17

Hi JoNvAn,

I did my interview back in Mid-May in HK. (I am from Toronto)

I waited for 2 weeks before I received an email from CX notifying me that I was shortlisted for Stage 2. The next day, an HR personnel called my Toronto number to schedule a date for Stage 2.

Candidates that I have met and was rejected received the email the very next day.

FYI. I have a friend that did his interview in Vancouver in late May and was told they won't schedule anything for him till August.

No news is good news. Just be patient.
There are people that waited for a month before hearing back from CX.

JoNvAn

21st Jun 2012, 15:17

Thanks Pyromania. Good luck on your stage 2 interview.

rdane042

22nd Jun 2012, 02:21

Hi,
I am also from Toronto and my Interview has been scheduled for July.
I was wondering if you would be able to share your experience. Any tips/advice
would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Cheers,
Ross

bwong

22nd Jun 2012, 04:42

Dear Doris

I think joining HKYAA is a good idea for learning more about aviation and at the bottom line preparing for an airline interview. It's started by a group of volunteer local airline pilots with lecturers from engineering, air traffic control, government flying service and the civil aviation department as well. Normally this type of course is very costly but HKYAA is essentially free. They are aiming for Uni students so if you're interested, do apply and see if get selected for the program.

100187259

22nd Jun 2012, 06:32

hi,

im just wondering for those ppl who are off to stage 2, do they hold a cpl and 250 flying hrs or they have no flying experience at all before they apply ? is it more likely to get hired if i have a cpl/250 flying hrs ? can somebody be so kind to answer my question cuz im wondering if i should get my cpl before i apply !!

Thx

smurf84

22nd Jun 2012, 07:11

google88

22nd Jun 2012, 09:49

Hi all any 1 leaving for the advanced entry flight grading in july ?

ace20110627

22nd Jun 2012, 12:45

Grading on 29/6. Anyone?

Pyromania

22nd Jun 2012, 14:57

Hi rdane042,

Are you going in for Stage 1 or Stage 2?

100187259

22nd Jun 2012, 16:53

You definitely require an ICAO CPL with 250+ hours flying experience to apply for the Advanced Entry Second Officer Programme or an ATPL with 1500+ hours flying experience for the Transition Training Programme.

The debate regarding international applicants registering for the Ab-initio Cadet Pilot Programme (with no previous flying experience) is still going on. The website continues to mention that preference is given to HKID holders, which means you can still apply. I strongly advise you to speak to one of the recruitment guys in Cathay Pacific and get that cleared.

Hi,

thx for the reply. As a matter of fact, i did speak to Suuny Signh (recruitment manger) on the phone, he stated that there is risk that you might not be hired even if you have cpl and 250 hrs.

But overall, i was wondering are there more ppl with cpl who moved on to stage 2 more than ppl with NO flying experience at all ??

thx again

smurf84

22nd Jun 2012, 19:30

As a matter of fact, i did speak to Suuny Signh (recruitment manger) on the phone, he stated that there is risk that you might not be hired even if you have cpl and 250 hrs.

I've never heard of that before! I hold an ICAO CPL with 270 odd hours. Sunny Singh's statement does come as a surprise to me, especially having failed the Stage 2 interview recently. As far as I know, Cathay shortlisted 10-12 Indian pilots for flight grading and most of them are CPL holders with 250+ hours flying experience. Looking at 2011-2012 (Eurozone crisis, rising ATF prices, Japanese tsunami and the slow recovery of the US economy), I doubt if Cathay Pacific actually requires 300 Second Officers for the year, as one of their management pilots mentioned in an interview to a local newspaper.

But overall, i was wondering are there more ppl with cpl who moved on to stage 2 more than ppl with NO flying experience at all ??

I don't have the exact numbers. But I reckon HKID holders with NO flying experience will always be given the bigger slice. Fair enough.

rdane042

23rd Jun 2012, 08:59

I'm going to stage 1 - are you in Toronto too?

100187259

24th Jun 2012, 06:03

I'm going to stage 1 - are you in Toronto too?

Hi rdane042 (http://www.pprune.org/members/377654-rdane042),

are you able to share what questions they ask in stage one after the interview ? do you hold cpl with 250 hrs ? i live in vancouver and im wondering if i should get my cpl before stage one

thx

skytrimph

25th Jun 2012, 17:32

Hi everyone, is anyone doing stage 2 on 19Jul? please pm me.

Pyromania

25th Jun 2012, 23:10

Hi Rdane402,

Sorry I have been busy lately.
Yes, I am from Toronto, too. Going for Stage 2.

Here is the breakdown for Stage 1 (they are in no particular order):

1. Interview
Mine was just an HR Interview. Though there may be a chance of technical interview depending on whether or not they have the resources to do so. (Either way, you'll get one Stage 1 or Stage 2). Just study whatever you can think of according to your level of experience (PPL, CPL, etc.) I was told they can ask you anything. Don't be surprised. The environment was pretty relaxing. Just be yourself.

2. Job Knowledge Test
Make sure you read the JKI Booklet. You'll be able to answer most of the questions from the JKI Booklet. If you've done your ground school, you'll be fine. If not, the JKI is sufficient. Knowing more is better as I am not sure if all tests are the same.

3. Reasoning Test
There is really nothing you can do to prepare for this.
It's a test of logic. Some candidates were able to finish some weren't. I am not sure what the benchmark is. Try looking up Raven Matrices as others had suggested in this forum

4. Personality Test
Again, it's another test which you can't prepare for. Just be yourself.

Stage 1 to me was more about getting to know who I am.
My advice to you (just as everyone else had told me) is to be yourself.
The questions asked were quite straight forward.

Best of Luck!

ProPwannabe

26th Jun 2012, 00:06

Im going for the interview on wednesday for stg1 ab cadet interview, is there anyone else going too??

Chris

krisER

26th Jun 2012, 02:37

Anyone going to AE stage 1 on 29 Jun?

flyber

26th Jun 2012, 12:31

@propwannabe, are you hkid holder?

ProPwannabe

26th Jun 2012, 17:17

no im not but i applied before they changed the requirements;

so anyone else on here for interviews in london this week?

TruthSeeker6

26th Jun 2012, 17:46

I found this article dated June 15 regarding Cathay Pacific's pilot recruitment. Female pilots on top at Cathay Pacific | smartjob (http://www.smartjob.com/resource-station/article/female-pilots-top-cathay-pacific)

If you would take note, the picture "potential pay" (it alternates between a female pilot in a cockpit and a "potential pay") shows a second officer between 1-4 years as making HK 25,000-50,000, this is different than what CX's website says as "starting salary package is around HKD 45,000). Cathay Pacific - Careers : Careers Home (http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/careers/flying/fdc_so_benefits).

From the article, FO 5-9 years (HK$50,000 - $85,000); website - "FO in their first year can expect to earn around HKD 85,000"

From article, Capt 10-19 years (HK$85,000 - $200,000); website - "Cpts between HKD 130,000 and HKD 200,000)

So, are we looking at some "fuzzy math" or are there something that Cathay is not being upfront about because these numbers from the article seem to be pretty specific and also suggest it may take 5 years to upgrade to FO.

captain.weird

26th Jun 2012, 18:38

@ProPWannabe, are you really invited for the 61 weeks programme?

ProPwannabe

26th Jun 2012, 22:18

@captain.wierd

lol, you must have misread, i asked if anyone going for the stage1 interviews in london this week!

rdane042

27th Jun 2012, 04:31

Hi Pyromania,
Thank you very much for sharing your experience with me.
I will certainly review the booklet and other information as I receive through this thread and will let you and other fellow pilots know how the interview went.
I am currently in British Columbia and working as an instructor. It's a busy season with many students....I try to study at nights when I can find a moment to myself!!!
Thanks again and all the best to you too!
Cheers

joe56

27th Jun 2012, 15:01

I have been invited to the final interview in Hong Kong without having to attend an initial interview in my current country of residence. The interview is for the transition program. Has this happened before? Would my interview be different?

100187259

27th Jun 2012, 16:57

Hi rdane042 (http://www.pprune.org/members/377654-rdane042),

Hi Pyromania,
Thank you very much for sharing your experience with me.
I will certainly review the booklet and other information as I receive through this thread and will let you and other fellow pilots know how the interview went.
I am currently in British Columbia and working as an instructor. It's a busy season with many students....I try to study at nights when I can find a moment to myself!!!
Thanks again and all the best to you too!
Cheers

i live in Surrey, B.C, too. I was wondering which flight school did you go to ? or which ones do you recommend ? by instructor, do you mean you are a flight instructor ?

rdane042

28th Jun 2012, 07:46

I did my trainings in Toronto, but am now working as a flight instructor in BC

lonestar2012

29th Jun 2012, 04:37

Hello Guys

I have been reading this forum and found it really helpful...I have selected for stage II but I haven't got the date yet...I have read a lot about JKI booklet questions ... Can someone please send me this book?

JoNvAn

29th Jun 2012, 12:59

Anyone have their 2nd Stage interview scheduled on Aug?
Maybe we can meet up to study. Please PM me.
Cheers.

Pyromania

1st Jul 2012, 06:27

Congratulations in making to Stage 2!
Best of luck!

schweizer2

1st Jul 2012, 10:53

some get too much n some get too little, therefore all should get an amount that
lie in between those 2 extremes..

..........:ugh:

ixg888

1st Jul 2012, 10:56

What?? do you mean? some get little some get many??

pilotpartner

1st Jul 2012, 12:13

I have read the thread with interest as my spouse is interviewing with CX.
We will be in position to be on the reduced salary with the cadet training, thanks for detailing previously what all this really means.
What seemed like a golden opportunity may no longer be, but for a pilot who is getting older, due to late start to flying career and having to work to save for the training it is getting low on options.
I have a well paid job but would have to quit this if we make the move.:(
After years of applying to airlines this is the first bite, and now I know why.
I am so disappointed for my partner who really does love to fly, but also has family to provide for which seems nearly impossible on the new salary scale.
My spouse isnt a young single person with years to wait to progress nor could I see there would be much stimulation from the the flying if what I read is also correct, not much chance to get much hands flying.

Does anyone have any advice from spouses who are in similar situation and making it work in Hong Kong?

ChinaBeached

2nd Jul 2012, 03:14

A welcome change to the stereotypical head in the sand / tunnel visioned blinker attitude.

If your partner is as determined to succeed then he will, and you won't have to sacrifice standards or self worth (least of all contributing to the detriment of a once great airline).

There are jobs at the GA as well as regional level that require and set far higher standards of recruitment that CX does, and they can pay better both in real and net figures (read many previous posts regarding that point). From there your partner earns real hours that allow him immensely more flexibility and movement in his career and your future. CX chains you to a bonded existence far longer than the terms of the contracted "bond" due to the P2X rating.....

Does anyone have any advice from spouses who are in similar situation and making it work in Hong Kong?

You've answered your own question with the comment you made earlier so why be a part of something you've realised stinks to high hell: After years of applying to airlines this is the first bite, and now I know why.

As you say, you're spouse isn't a young single person hence why I trust you see past the Top Gun movies, Playstation games and me-first GenY ignorant attitude that WILL bite them in the tail in the long term.

Relying on yourself landing another well paid job "in this economic climate" in order to hope to make ends meet is a bit irresponsible to be honest. But does that make it right for him to lower his own industry because he can be supported elsewhere? It's no different to making universities available to only the rich. If so then better qualified, experienced but not as well-off students are shoved aside for the less / zero qualified but rich kids who can "afford" it.

Do some serious research into your own job prospects and then place them beside your spouse's and note his income is at an ever diminishing rate due the fact that the insulting housing allowance is not factored to the housing market fluctuations. That $36k HKD he'll get after becoming a senior Capt will probably be worth that same pathetic $10k HKD per month he'll initially get by the time he reaches that milestone. And his age.... Will he ever see a Command due his age and seniority progression? So perhaps he'll never see that diminished $36k HKD a month. Your age is shown as being 40. If he is close to or even older than that then he'll be lucky to ever see a Command - and isn't that the real dream of pilots: to one day be Captain? So will CX allow him to fulfil his ambition if it all possible to forget about the slap in the face contract and terms?

As you've noticed, CX are relying on the gullible and SJS dreamers for this iCadet SO scheme, not the mature and experienced applicants. There's a reason those truly in the know either advise strongly against it or refuse to apply, let alone join.

(I'm assuming your spouse is male so apologies if I'm wrong - no offence intended)

blade

2nd Jul 2012, 14:58

Captainable....

you are an idiot,please stay where you are!!

Howard 168

3rd Jul 2012, 07:39

Hi All,

I'm new in this forum, its great to be one of the member here with all who shared the same dreams and passion over aviation..

I have a question, is age will be an obstacle to apply for the CX cadet Programme?

Many Thanks!

ProPwannabe

3rd Jul 2012, 10:56

howard, you lazy ****!

Howard 168

3rd Jul 2012, 13:55

Hi ProPwannabe,

what is **** supposed to mean?
i'm really sorry if i get u offended by asking age is an issue.

sugizo20

3rd Jul 2012, 14:53

Howard, I guess you are below 20, right?

Howard 168

4th Jul 2012, 11:37

sugizo20

lol i wish i'm 20, things be lot easier then..
the matter fact is i'm over 30!
Before that i didn't dare to think about mentioning to be a pilot, or even imagining. until recent years that i have solved some of my financial problems. Then last year, after hearing that there's such cadet programme sponsorship from CX, and it sparked me! and emboldened myself to enlist for the CX CPP.

That's why from this forum, i hope some good and wise opinions would help me to figure out that whether am i too old for these?

However, i'm currently undertaking a PPL course in HKG, that directly related to Adelaide's FTA..
will this help to further enlightening my path to the CPP?

any comment? cons or pros?

Many Thanks in advance..

K.O.

4th Jul 2012, 12:50

What is the full form of an iCadet? How is that different from an Ab Initio Cadet?

I have recently been in touch with a Captain currently flying at CX, and I thought I would share what he had to say. (I am going to also be put in touch with a pilot who just completed the cadet program...I'll post a summary of his email here too).

Basically, he advised me to look elsewhere for a job opportunity as the current package deal they are offering to the Second Officers coming out of the Cadet program is much less in terms of benefits as compared to previous years. I'm not clear on whether pay has been lowered too. Anyone of us who gets a job with CX though this program should expect to spend at least 4 to 5 years at a minimum living in Hong Kong. This is because as a S.O. our base will be HK. It is uncommon and unrealistic to continually commute to HK everyday. CX has closed 2 bases (was not told which) with more to come. Now with housing costs being in the range of $96,000 USD/year, it seems like we'll just about be broke before we know it. Earning $45,000HKD/month = $540,000HKD/year = $69,677 USD/year is still $30k USD short and that's just for rent. I need someone to verify this housing figure. If its true, then does CX make housing available for its cadets? If not, we're sunk. The US is a better option mostly because it eliminates the bonded aspect of the CX package, although now with the new NPRM rule (if you're familiar with it) makes it impossible to get an airline job, be it regional, charter, or major, without 1,500 hrs and an ATP. His last piece of advice to me was to not be blinded by the shiny jets and the CX brand name, but to look at the big picture and decide where you want to work, how you want to work, and how much a company values you. Plan for the future now. Sigh.

I am going to write to CX HR to ask them to provide me with a detailed explanation of the current Cadet Package, benefits and payment etc. I'll post that here when i get word.

Cheers and Good luck

K.O. ;)

TruthSeeker6

4th Jul 2012, 23:00

I found this article dated June 15 regarding Cathay Pacific's pilot recruitment. [/URL]http://www.smartjob.com/resource-station/article/female-pilots-top-cathay-pacific (http://www.smartjob.com/resource-station/article/female-pilots-top-cathay-pacific)

If you would take note, the picture "potential pay" (it alternates between a female pilot in a cockpit and a "potential pay") shows a second officer between 1-4 years as making HK 25,000-50,000, this is different than what CX's website says as "starting salary package is around HKD 45,000). [url]http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/careers/flying/fdc_so_benefits (http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/careers/flying/fdc_so_benefits)

From the article, FO 5-9 years (HK$50,000 - $85,000); website - "FO in their first year can expect to earn around HKD 85,000"

From article, Capt 10-19 years (HK$85,000 - $200,000); website - "Cpts between HKD 130,000 and HKD 200,000)

So, are we looking at some "fuzzy math" or are there something that Cathay is not being upfront about because these numbers from the article seem to be pretty specific and also suggest it may take 5 years to upgrade to FO.

Mad-Dog

5th Jul 2012, 02:47

That house you mentioned for USD$96,000/yr will soon be 1/10 of it’s price in the next few years. The fact is, probably the worst global recession/depression is looming. Europe will go first when “too big to bail” countries like Spain and later Italy will need drastic measures to save itself. You think Greece is bad, the other PIIGS are thousands times worse. Right now some economists think even countries like France and even… Germany maybe at stake. The US is not doing so well, slow economy, high unemployment and massive unfunded liability will hurt the US seriously very shortly. Malaise in Europe and the US will sink China, one of the major drivers since 2008, and China is doing very bad right now with it's declining PMI and downward GDP revisions. China will have a very hard landing and it will hurt those who depend on it the most such as Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan et al. Hong Kong real estate is a major bubble as it was propped by easy money from the Mainland. Hong Kong's real estate bubble is 100% worse than Dubai and when China collapses, Hong Kong will suffer greatly. I would stay away from anything in Asia right now. India is a joke, all hype about it’s economy when it never made sense how they thought they can skip industrialization (ie manufacturing) to become prosperous by just depending on IT services and other ‘back office” contract work (plus a lot of corruption and back dealings within its government). Japan is in terrible shape with it’s debt that is about 200% it’s GDP and half of their income from tax is used to service their debt, big problem. So in short, the big bust is coming and just wait, housing will be cheap in the near future.

M Pereira

5th Jul 2012, 21:34

Anyone stage 2 25/26th July?

jamessoong

6th Jul 2012, 02:43

Hi all, anyone flight grading 21st July to 4th Aug?

crwjerk

6th Jul 2012, 09:35

Basically, he advised me to look elsewhere for a job opportunity as the current package deal they are offering to the Second Officers coming out of the Cadet program is much less in terms of benefits as compared to previous years.
No, no, no, no!!
Listen up kids!
Cadet Second Officers never received any housing allowance, or any of the EXPAT perks and benefits previously, because they were LOCALS. Expats who were EXPERIENCED ( not cadets) received EXPAT allowances. Now that they have stopped the EXPAT allowances, they'll take anybody with a pulse, as no experienced EXPAT with a brain would even consider this contract.
So, it's not the same job, it's not the same pay, and for good reason.:mad:

pilotpartner

7th Jul 2012, 12:25

China Beached,
Thanks for your reply.

Husband (you got it right:-))and I have spent more time apart, in some really not great places,than together in recent years while he tries to build hours,etc etc all on a pittance of salary. I am sure its a regularly told and heard story for pilots who do one day aspire to be Captain flying the big planes.
My well paid job is in countries where there are very limited aviation opportunities for my husband.I would leave my job so we can be together, we have both worked hard and made sacrifices for careers and it gets harder as time goes on to make them without knowing there is something worthwhile or achieving your goals and dreams.I agree leaving a well paid job is not the most responsible thing I could do, especially if I end up eating cup a noodles and live in a shoebox.We have a child and being together has become alot more important, which is going to mean some more sacrifices, at the expense of what, is a big decision when you are talking about someones passion.

jackson0211

8th Jul 2012, 15:22

Hey guys,

Anyone having their second interview on the 18/7?

Skyhawks

9th Jul 2012, 16:31

Anyone doing flight grading late August / September?

The_Raptor

10th Jul 2012, 05:03

Yes I am invited to stage 2 in HKG. Applied for the cadet program in 2009, got a stage 1 interview in July 2010 in YVR. Seemed like I failed their grading process as I recieved the "not at this time" e-mail. I pretty much much flushed it after that.

Fast foward two years, I get asked in May to update my resume, did so, and got a stage 2 invite almost right away.

Whats your application experience been?

lucky86

10th Jul 2012, 11:14

Hi all,

Can anyone shed some light on the cx basic flight grading fail rate?

Im pretty sure no one knows the exact figure, but can anyone share their own experience of their batch on this forum?

Thanks.

i follow road

11th Jul 2012, 01:35

With my batch half made it but I've also heard that previous batches had 100% success rate. It's all up to FTA I think, If they think you're suitable, you'll pass. It's not a competition or anything, do your best!

Pyromania

11th Jul 2012, 03:30

When do you find out whether or not you pass Flight Grading?

Also, does anyone have the POH and Checklist of the Grob115?

Thanks in advance!

F277

11th Jul 2012, 14:44

Hi everyone,

I signed up to the SO cadet pilot programme back in 2011 and then in April 2012 I got that 'Application Update' email which many of you received. I filled it in, sent it back and haven't heard anything since.

Have any of you which sent the form back in April got a confirmation or a reply for a Stage 1 interview? I applied for the less than 250 hour programme and put the London as a preferred interview location.

Thanks

B7879

11th Jul 2012, 17:34

Anyone will have the icao soon?
Lets meet up for practice if you are interested;)

flypaul

11th Jul 2012, 18:03

Hi F277,

im in the same shoe.

i havent heard anything back since i sent back them.

Lot of guys received rejection e-mail from this team.

if you did not hear anything maybe you have chance

Pilotofutur

12th Jul 2012, 04:30

Hi folks,

I have been searching at several aviation forum sites the answer to the following question, but I did not find it:
What is the MAXIMUM age limit to be considered as an applicant for the Cathay second officer program?

Thanks a lot!

flyber

12th Jul 2012, 14:29

Why would Cathay really bother to invite a candidate to stage 2/3 in Hong Kong knowing very well they will not finally take you due to the current immigration issues involving non hkid holders for ab initio? Mind you, somebody has to buy a ticket to transit to a nearest port CX flies to, paying highly for it, in order to connect to their flight to HK. Talk of "escorting others to do the actual interview".

Pyromania

12th Jul 2012, 16:49

Hi,

Is anyone going for Flight Grading August 18 to August 25?

Please PM me.

Thanks!

Pyromania

13th Jul 2012, 12:51

I heard the eldest they have admitted for Ab-Initio was 39 and for Advanced Entry it's 43.
I am not sure if they have (or allow to have) an age limit.

flapsupdown

14th Jul 2012, 04:03

Time to command is long but I think you'll get there within 30 years. So if you are 35, you might not be a captain for long but if you work until you retire you certainly will make command (assuming you pass all the checks).

And no, recruitment won't increase drastically. A lot of orders are for replacement rather than growth.

etrang

17th Jul 2012, 04:17

So everybody's saying the programmes rubbish , it's a sh*t package,

No, not everyone. A small group of disgruntled CX pilots and a few others with a grudge against Cathay say its rubbish because they fear that if this scheme is successful it will eventually lead to a worse package for them.

They may well be right, and the package isn't that good. Unfortunately its still a lot better than many of the alternatives.

crwjerk

17th Jul 2012, 05:04

I have been searching at several aviation forum sites the answer to the following question, but I did not find it:
What is the MAXIMUM age limit to be considered as an applicant for the Cathay second officer program?

There is no age discrimination.

1stflightout

17th Jul 2012, 14:38

There is no age discrimination per se, but companies can say that, "We have other candidates who more closely match our requirements" if your age is an issue, thus they are not being discriminatory.

krislamb

20th Jul 2012, 18:56

Hi there, I have submitted my application on May, but till now haven't got any feedback yet. Is there anyone with the same situation as mind? Just wonder when they will reply.

nevet

21st Jul 2012, 17:01

Just to clarify, Cathay is no longer hiring or interviewing people who do not have a HK ID, right?

flapsupdown

21st Jul 2012, 18:11

Correct - regardless of what it says on the website, a HKID card is a requirement for the Ab Initio program, at this moment in time.

However, I have started to hear rumors that wannabe's are bypassing this requirement by becoming employees of CX in other positions before applying. Anyone shed light on whether this is true?

Clish

22nd Jul 2012, 01:08

However, I have started to hear rumors that wannabe's are bypassing this requirement by becoming employees of CX in other positions before applying. Anyone shed light on whether this is true?

I highly doubt it... Training is the reason why an HKID is required. Coming from another department in the same company does not make it any difference. Note that it is not simply an HKID, you need to be a permanent resident; either be born in HK or have lived in HK for 7 years after getting an HKID card

SloppyJoe

22nd Jul 2012, 03:06

Also why would a company like CX go through the trouble of hiring someone in a different department so they can circumnavigate immigration laws. Its not as if an ab-initio cadet has some great skills that CX just can't do without.

flapsupdown

22nd Jul 2012, 05:58

Clish/Sloppy,

Thats what I was thinking as well.....

don't think CX are trying to get around immigration laws...just a few interested cabin crew are applying from within the company

SloppyJoe

22nd Jul 2012, 06:12

It has been like that for a long time. Cabin crew can and do transfer to the cadet scheme. This is not CX trying to get ab-initio candidates it is just an avenue open to current employees, not just cabin crew. They will not however hire you as cabin crew if your goal is to become a pilot. You also need to be from the country they are interested in recruiting expat cabin crew in, competition for that may be even higher than for the cadet scheme. Recently hired in India, 100s applied most with degrees and only a handful picked.

flapsupdown

22nd Jul 2012, 06:59

So that leads to the question I originally had in mind....can cabin crew, and for that matter, current employees, without HKID card, be considered for the ab initio program?

SloppyJoe

22nd Jul 2012, 10:57

As previously stated, you need a permanent HKID to be acceptable for the ab-initio scheme. If you get a job with CX and a work permit for HKG you are issued a temporary HKID. If you hold that HKID for 7 years you can exchange it for a permanent HKID. So after 7 years, yes, you would be able to apply for the cadet scheme.

Clish

22nd Jul 2012, 14:54

sloppyjoe pretty much summed it up:D

note tho... those who are cabin crews still go through the same process everyone else; they don't just transfer over

yep_ok_whatever

23rd Jul 2012, 04:10

Anyone heard back from the recent Syd ab initio testing?

100187259

23rd Jul 2012, 22:23

Correct - regardless of what it says on the website, a HKID card is a requirement for the Ab Initio program, at this moment in time..

Is this only for ppl who want to apply for the 61 weeks cadet pilot program ?
So if that is true, this wont affect me if i want to apply for the 32 weeks [advanced entry] cadet program right ?

thx !!!

captain.weird

24th Jul 2012, 03:31

Yes correct.

Jim-J

24th Jul 2012, 03:34

WRT Age question - all sorts between the ages of 19 (ab initio) to 42 (AE) so far enrolled for flight training/grading

MidgetBoy

24th Jul 2012, 05:47

I'm told time and time again by applicants that they're being turned down for standing up for themselves and not putting up with crap.
Isn't that a good thing? Don't you want someone asking questions if they don't understand something rather than blindly following instructions?

I'm told that wanting to read through contracts and not immediately signing documents is being frowned upon because you're being rude by not taking what other people would desperately fight over. What's up with that?

crwjerk

24th Jul 2012, 06:33

The fact that you are in a position to sign it, means that you didn't worry about what was in it. That's why CX are wondering why you're taking so long to sign it! :ok:

Clish

24th Jul 2012, 09:18

they give you contracts to take home and bring back to give to them when u do the 2nd medical. you don't sign on the spot

joeAviator

24th Jul 2012, 17:17

100187259

25th Jul 2012, 16:54

Hi everybody,

I'm new on this forum... Have applied for the CX Second Officer Cadet Pilot Programme. Applied early this year (february). No real calls yet for stage 1. have been working in Aircraft Maintenance on a 19 (+3 crew) seater plane for more than 18months now. I hold a Bachelors degree (4yrs) in Engineering. specialized in Electrical & Electronics. But ZERO hrs of flying http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/sowee.gif How would I fit in into a pilot's seat? How is this Second officer programme?Is it a wise choice to make for someone who is passionate about flying and doesnt have funds to get a Cpl on his own. How is it on the long run? How is CX on the whole? 'one of the best to work for' sort of?? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif Kindly help..
Thanx.ppl in the previous pg are saying that CX is no longer hiring ppl with zero flight hrs without hkid for 61 weeks cadet program. i cant say that is true for sure because the website still says other foreigners can still apply for 61 weeks, but hkid is given priority.
So i guess you can wait out or call Sunny Sign for more inquiry.
hope that helps

Clish

26th Jul 2012, 00:45

ppl in the previous pg are saying that CX is no longer hiring ppl with zero flight hrs without hkid for 61 weeks cadet program. i cant say that is true for sure because the website still says other foreigners can still apply for 61 weeks, but hkid is given priority.
So i guess you can wait out or call Sunny Sign for more inquiry.
hope that helps

actually you are just making ppl more confused. it is already confirmed that they are not hiring people without HKID's for the ab initio program. They do the interviews, but the ppl without HKID's wont get placement until something changes from the government; even if they pass all the stages.

etrang

26th Jul 2012, 09:43

it is already confirmed that they are not hiring people without HKID's for the ab initio program

Where is that confirmed? If its in writing on CX or HK Immigration sites please provide a link. If you are just talking about people in this thread claiming that its confirmed, then its not confirmed.

SloppyJoe

26th Jul 2012, 15:20

Here you go.

III.
General Employment Policy (GEP)

Eligibility Criteria
20. Applicants who are not non-local graduates but possess special skills, knowledge or experience of value to and not readily available in the HKSAR may apply to come to work under the GEP.
21. An application for a visa/ entry permit to take up employment under the GEP may be favourably considered if:

there is no security objection and no known record of serious crime in respect of the applicant;
the applicant has a good education background, normally a first degree in the relevant field, but in special circumstances, good technical qualifications, proven professional abilities and/or relevant experience and achievements supported by documentary evidence may also be accepted;
there is a genuine job vacancy;
the applicant has a confirmed offer of employment and is employed in a job relevant to his academic qualifications or working experience that cannot be readily taken up by the local work force; and
the remuneration package including income, accommodation, medical and other fringe benefits is broadly commensurate with the prevailing market level for professionals in the HKSAR.

The Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region - Immigration Department (http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/id991.htm#III)

As people keep saying, CX tried it on, the HKG immigration said no but were surprisingly forgiving for a government agency and allowed those already in the system to continue.

For the moment and foreseeable future you need a permanent HKID if applying for ab-initio as you bring no skill or experience that can't be found locally.

To be honest I think CX are still pushing it a bit with regard to number 2 and only a CPL/IR and 250hrs requirement.

Clish

27th Jul 2012, 02:10

:D SloppyJoe ... and just to point out.. the key point is #4

flyber

27th Jul 2012, 07:04

Even those who started interviews prior to the hkid issue were also affected. Iam one of them (stage 1 Dec 2011 and stage 2/3 on Feb 2012) and have a few mates on the same fate. They told me that I have a deferral of 1 year.

flapsupdown

27th Jul 2012, 10:58

Just out of curiosity, at what point did they tell you about your deferral? And did they give you a set date for when you will start??

flyber

27th Jul 2012, 20:36

@flapsupdown. Was to have an Icao retest this month before I head for grading but I was told that I have a 12 months deferral due to the HK immigration ruling. If I happen to be called again *sceptical on that* I was told I will start from stage 2. So another stage 2 after 12 months!:oh:

ChinaBeached

29th Jul 2012, 03:06

On an overnight in HK and was reading the Sth China Morning Post yesterday:

HK housing prices ROSE by 80% (yes, EIGHTY PERCENT) since 2009.

So, your $10,000 HKD housing allowance over a 4 year period is worth in real terms $2000 HKD. Your $46,000 a month is now worth $38,000 a month.

We make mention of living in shoe boxes in HK. With that depreciating housing allowance which so many of you deem acceptable to sell your souls to is now getting outside of your reach. That housing allowance can't afford you a shoe box! So you want to share an apartment you say. Great, so 3 x iCadets combining their (now, in real terms) $6000 HKD a month to rent what?

Hong Kong Property, Apartment for Rent and for Sale - Hong Kong Realty (http://www.hongkonghomes.com/en/property/rent/list?sch_type=1&pvc_ids%5B%5D=4&rental_fr=&select-rental-fr_customSelect_radio=&rental_to=&select-rental-to_customSelect_radio=&price_fr=&select-price-fr_customSelect_radio=&price_to=&select-price-to_customSelect_radio=&bed_fr=&select-bed-fr_customSelect_radio=&size_fr=200&select-size-fr_customSelect_radio=200&size_to=600&select-size-to_customSelect_radio=600&bath_fr=&select-bath-fr_customSelect_radio=)
(I did a search on apartments min 200 to max 500 sq ft in Central. Try changing the fields for any other part of HK and see what $2000 a month will get you, or consider your ever depreciating $10,000).

It does not make any financial sense to sign that insulting iCadet contract - not to mention all the other reasons of professional integrity.

When are you kids going to look LONG TERM and show one tiny piece of responsibility toward your profession and career? Still thinking of raising a family (single income with 1 or 2 kids of your own) one day on that salary package and contract?

bangout

29th Jul 2012, 04:11

CB, there's a TV programme on Nat Geo titled 'Doomsday Preppers'. I get the impression that it's right up your street.

Nirak

29th Jul 2012, 04:36

Some food for thought for you guys out there:

I learned to fly long before cadet schemes came into the aviation world. I was 24 years of age when I started and had to pay for my own flying training, working many hours night shift to get extra pay. I took my annual leave to attend CPL and ATPL ground school and wrote my exams on my 'off days'

I was 30 years old on my first turboprop conversion and had a training bond for 4 years for that privelage. Up till then I lived in converted single garages on the large properties of the more well-off citizens.

Only at the age of 35 I managed to secure a bank loan big enough to buy myself a 2 bedroom townhouse in a very average neighbourhood in my home town.

I sometimes listen to the cadets and wonder if they really appreciate the opportunity that they are getting ? :confused:

ChinaBeached

29th Jul 2012, 07:48

How so? What did I write that you believe us exaggerated or untrue?

There's also a show called "Banged Up Abroad". (No pun intended but perhaps quite apt). It's about people, usually young, ignorant & naive, trying to find a short cut to getting what they want. They don't wish to work hard & sacrifice time & effort toward achieving their goal. They do a deal with the devil and only then too late discover the real truths & consequences of their selective stupidity. Their captors are typically highly aggressive, corrupt & act without a care of written laws or other formal signed agreements.

I'd say that show is bang-up your street with respect to the iCadetship you defend. An agreement with a known & proven corrupt, ruthless & deceitful company (refer to price fixing scandals, 49ers court case purgery, CoS 99, CoS 08, sign or be fired tactics, etc) & then held (bonded) for a prescribed time period.......

Guys like Nirak earned their stripes, & along with that earned respect. But I will disagree with one thing he wrote. The iCadetship is no "opportunity" for them per se. It is an opportunity for a money grab by CX management at the expense of ignorant & naive wannabes, plain & simple. And who said a fool & his money are easilly parted

CX iCadets are by no means selected from the best pool of talent out there. They are those left over from those with true experience & credentials who refuse to apply. As has been said before, you're the cheapest option. Nothing more, nothing less.

bangout

29th Jul 2012, 08:22

On second thoughts, I think you might enjoy 'Friends'. Unfortunately this programme repeats itself over and over and over again around a very predictable story line. Lots of people have begun to simply ignore it and see it as nothing more than the broadcast of 'samey' pollution. But give it a go, you might just find some value in it?

Nirak

29th Jul 2012, 09:20

I am not defending either the motives or practices of CX. I have never worked at CX either.

I am merely trying to say that the previous generation of pilots had to work their way up from light twins, turboprops, etc to eventually end up as a SFO on a shiny jet with a somewhat decent salaryand a few thousand hours TT. The Aviation industry is a difficult environment, has always been.

It appears to me that the cadets expect to earn vast amounts of money and buy family size homes in the most expensive city when they have only a few hundred hours experience under the belt. They are only spared the slugging away on a delapidated light twin or turboprop. The previous generation also earned peanuts during their low-time years.

They seem to be even unhappy having to make good a number of years at CX. Getting paid a salary even during their training period, doing Zero-to-Hero in just over a year. It took me over 7 years to get my PPL to ATPL (subjects) part time and another 2 years full time flying to get my full ATPL.

Just a question to some of these impatient ones..... If you are a B777 or A320 Captain by the age of 30, what are you going to keep yourself interested with until your retirement at 65 or 70 ? Complaining about the boring airline food, the useless cabin crew, bitch all day about your 'right to get confirmed rebate travel' and... and .... and....

Aviation is a life long journey with many peaks and troughs. Beautifull views may become scary ones too. Making lifelong friends that may bring you lots of happyness or strenious proffessional and personal relationships.

It takes many years: lots of hard work, lots of stresses and strains, lots of practice, and above all, lots of patience...

I sometimes wonder if the cadets do not miss out on some 'real flying' by not doing the 'regional turboprop fight-it-out in the thunderstorm and icing' experience as a young and enthusiastic pilot. I have found it to be a very good learning school for both myself and my flying skills. Today, they are also the source of my best flying memories and passenger stories, especially after the cockpit door became locked (post 9/11). Without that, airline flying is very much 'just transport' / computer sidekick, etc...

VeroFlyer

29th Jul 2012, 10:30

So just commute from Thailand, buddy of mine does as an SO. Has a great time, money goes a lot further and has a really nice pad in Bangkok!
6x CX flights a day and not to mention quite a few other airlines!
Who says you have to live in Hong Kong!

But i'm sure some negative Joe on here is going to come up with some reason to shot this down too. Some people really are so negative!

rdane042

29th Jul 2012, 17:57

Thanks to JJ, finally received some positive feedback! LOL
I am a single flight instructor but not very young, still hoping to fly big jets one day and make my dream come true! I have no problem living in a small apartment near the airport - In fact, I am currently living in a small room inside a flight school (it's basically an old house) located on an airport property!! ...

Cpt. Underpants

29th Jul 2012, 21:26

rdane042

I know that it may seem "ok" to you to be living in a hangar at the airport, but the aviation scene in Canada is seriously messed up.

With all due respect, if you think that it's ok for a potential 777/330/350 captain to be living in what amounts to no more than squalor, you're a fool.

Go to Westjet, AC, Transat, Perimeter...whatever - but stay away from here. Please. You and your sort are a blight on the industry.

ChinaBeached

30th Jul 2012, 02:24

jj - so where or how did I exaggerate? What part of this confused you??
(I did a search on apartments min 200 to max 500 sq ft in Central. Try changing the fields for any other part of HK and see what $2000 a month will get you, or consider your ever depreciating $10,000).
You obviously lack the capacity to read and fully comprehend information - hence the iCadet contract suits you well. You read and believe what you want to, but not what it is.

Your immaturity and ignorance of the profession you wish to be a part also shines through. Because you know some people earning $20k a month with 2 kids it's OK for this profession to be lowered to that level of remuneration? Do those locals need to send their kids to international schools due language barriers? Do they get access to the local health system a supposed to non permanent residents, is their family many 1000's of miles away on foreign shores, is their "profession" one in which they are responsible for many millions of dollars of hardware, not mention hundreds of lives, and so on? No kid - it's not quite apples and apples, is it? See kid, it "used to be" a profession taking years of dedication and sacrifice to earn the right to fly for an airline as CX once was. Not any more due to the likes of yourself. I'll wager you live at home with mummy and daddy, have never paid your own rent, your own bills, looked at a LONG TERM plan for retirement. The CX cadetship was only ever designed to support the local HK community (quote RH as recently as 2 years ago) but then scum like him are able to use it to attract and other sucker to the job in order to feather his own nest. He says CX need to change to reflect the industry as a whole - so where's his sacrifice? Where's the slicing and dicing of his remuneration package? Ooops... His has increased through salary increases, bonuses, etc all on the backs of ignorant wannabes.

rdane - if you haven't the ability to show some respect to yourself, try to do so to the profession at the very least.

vero - I'm happy your mate has shown some form of intelligence and is making the most of the sh!t sandwich he signed. I will assume eventually he will have to move to HK. For those at CX please correct me if I'm wrong. So what happens when he's stuck in HK and can't get home to BKK or flights don't coincide with his roster? I assume he'll have to pay for a hotel in HK every now and again. Eventually this sh!t sandwich of a contract will catch up to him. Once again, none of you look LONG TERM. You all look the here and now and Shiny Jet Syndrome you think you've earned by selling out to a greedy and immoral company.

The likes of banged, jj and rdane are all the same types who down the track will scream that pilots are their own worse enemy when it comes to sticking together to maintain their professional integrity, supporting standards and their job security, not to mention remuneration. You wilfully contribute to the lowering of the profession through your actions.

You get what you deserve: pay bananas, get monkeys. You're the cheapest option. How proud you must be.

eric900

30th Jul 2012, 04:45

Is anyone here who has applied to the cadet pilot program and has successfully gotten in to the program?
I'm in my third-year of my unviersity degree and thinking of applying to the program. The thing I'm kinda worried about is the medical check assessment. I know your body condition not only has to be good, but has to be top-shaped to get involved in the industry. My body condition seems fine at the moment but I'm not sure if I'm qualified to become a pilot in terms of my health condition.
Do you think, speaking in your perspective, I should do a medical check in advance before applying to any of the program?

bangout

30th Jul 2012, 06:17

CB, your approach to this debate baffles me. Your abrasive manner is counterproductive. If you really were all that concerned you would be able to realise that you are making no ground with your current spiel. Of course, someone genuinely concerned would switch on to this and find a more palatable way to communicate. But for some odd reason you fight on with your onslaught. The facts are clear and out there for all to see; people are entitled to draw their own conclusions.

What a shame that any valid advice you may have amongst the deep sea of waffle will be forever ignored. I'm sure you'll conjure an argument, but don't expect a response.

That's right, you've just been patronised by a 22 year old. My how the tables have turned.

ChinaBeached

30th Jul 2012, 07:51

Put yourself in our position, if you were at the beginning of your career, in the economy of today and the airline of your dreams, the airline that you had always dreamed of joining one day offered you a job....
I worked my ar$e off, studied my ar$e off & sacrificed all that was needed to get to where I am today. At no stage did I deem it acceptable to contribute to the downturn of my profession. I earned the right to interview for CX as SO with a few thousand command hours & jet time. I thought I realised the fruit of all my hard work, determination & sacrifice. I then had to turn CX down. So I think I have a pretty good grasp of things.
Would you go away, pay for your training and if you were lucky end up at a loco like Ryanair?
Yes. That's precisly what I did. I earned my climb up the ladder & built real hours in my log book, unlike a P2X rating. After your probable 5 years as SO how many ICAO recognised hours do you have? Only that from Adelaide. Nothing else. So your still stuck at CX for at least another ?? years to build hours that other airlines may recognise - but still with zero command time. So yes: a RHS job with Ryanair or a C172 or BE76 is FAR better than a P2X rating when it comes to your log book & career. You own your own hours & therefore destiny. Since when was a fresh CPL to RHS job in a 737 frowned upon??!! Guys in other countries drive for days on end just to land their first job in a C182. A twin job on a C404 or Chieftan let alone turboprop was unthinkable for at least a few years. You guys have no idea of the true profession when you believe a P2X rating in those contract terms is better than a RHS job at Ryanair or other carrier.

Banged - patronising? To even think you have the fur in your groin to be able to do so is humorous enough! You laud your right to sell out a profession & proudly contribute to its deterioration. I happen to vehemently disagree with that due experience. At 22 your log book (if you have one) is still in the same pre-pubescent stage as yourself so to think you have the professional ability to "patronise" me is comical! Thanks for the laugh kid! The fact that you even attempt to look down on those with more experience, credentials & knowledge of the job (& airline) you seek to lower speaks more of your own charactor than anything else. If I'm abrasive then it's for a reason: your ignorance & immaturity is a slur to all I & many others worked so hard for. If I'm abrasive I can't wait to see you cower like a puppy in a CX cockpit when your level of ignorance & arrogance gets exposed! You have no idea kid.

etrang

30th Jul 2012, 08:23

China beached you obviously lack the capacity to do basic maths. I'd like to think you were joking, but obviously you were not.
HK housing prices ROSE by 80% (yes, EIGHTY PERCENT) since 2009.
So, your $10,000 HKD housing allowance over a 4 year period is worth in real terms $2000 HKD.

Doh! :ugh:

etrang

30th Jul 2012, 08:33

I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make. what I was trying to say was that the contract is live able on

Your point is quite clear, and quite valid too. Even China Beached would have understood it. He and the anti icadet trolls all start off claiming that its impossible to live on the icadet salary, and then when someone quite reasonably and correctly points out that in fact it is possible to live on it, they more the goal posts and come bach with a rant about how its unfitting for the great bread of human that it the "CX pilot" to live on it.

ChinaBeached

30th Jul 2012, 09:02

$10,000 x 20% = $2,000.

Year 1 (2009) CX housing = 100% of $10,000. Since 2009 housing prices have risen by 80% (quote SCMP. Here's another brief history lesson on the true value of the iCadet housing allowance that IS NOT maintained on par with the housing market unlike the previous contracts: House Prices in Hong Kong | Hong Kong Real Estate Prices (http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Asia/Hong-Kong/Price-History)).

The net worth of $10,000 less 80% is $2,000.

Go & argue the basis of that fact with either your math teacher or the editor of the SCMP where it was printed. Careful though! If they dare disagree then they could be labelled anti iCadet trolls!!!

When you reduce the value of something by 80% what you're left with is 20%. I typed that slow for you. What future CX has when this is the level of applicant. I can see how a 1:60 would fry your brain.

Anti iCadet trolls vs pro sell out trolls. An on going debate it seems. One side has facts, experience, credentials & experience. The other immaturity & ignorance.

If you read a post of mine not long ago I mentioned the iCadet remuneration package is livable but to plan for a LONG TERM secure financial future based on it & life's known & unknown variables is irresponsible not to mention contributing to the detriment of the airline & industry.

Unfitting a CX pilot as you say? Well yes & no. Guys like yourselves are willing to see it degraded so as to allow yourselves access to it. Otherwise those with experience, credentials & knowledge would apply & leave those without such professional qualities unable to compete. But that is not the case and until the job is driven down to your own level you'll defend your right to do so. You guys need these lower standards to apply. Those who refuse to apply or fight for higher standards are in opposition to you.

etrang

30th Jul 2012, 10:03

Oh dear, oh dear.

Since 2009 housing prices have risen by 80% OK

So, your $10,000 HKD housing allowance over a 4 year period is worth in real terms $2000 HKD.

No, in real terms that $10,000 is now worth about $5,555.

If housing prices had doubled (which, China Beached, is more than 80%, in fact its an increase of 100%), then the real (ie inflation adjusted) value of $10,000 would have been halved, ie $5,000. Still more than twice your claimed value of $2,000. :ugh:

Let's put it another way, if housing prices in 2009 were $4,000 per square foot and then they increased by 80% they would now be $7,200psf. In 2009 $10,000 would have bought you 2.50sf, now it buys you 1.39sf. (note that 1.39 is sitll about 55% of 2.5, not 20%)

Now you claim that $10,000 today, in real terms, is equal to $2,000 back in 2009. If that were true then $10,000 would only buy 0.50sf, which is what $2,000 bought back in 2009.

Please tell me you were joking.

ChinaBeached

30th Jul 2012, 12:30

I see your point & will readily admit I shot from the hip too quickly & happilly stand corrected.

However what you cannot deny is the ever eroding real term value of the housing allowance as part of the iCadet package. Where I can show some humility where I'm wrong I would hope at the very least most of you could. I could easily delete or edit that post(s) showing my error but I'l happily keep it there to admit I was wrong - however the basis of my argument is not.

So, taking an admittedly better calculation reasoning your $10,000 HKD is worth $5,555 four years later.

Mr Taylor - it seems you wish to fire the slander of "rudeness" in one direction only? Arrogance? From where? I raised a fact mentioned in the SCMP & was immediately attacked. I defended the stand point & have happilly conceded an error. I was attacked without reference to fact and returned fire. One guy wanted to get personal, so he received the same in kind. Have you played judge and jury toward other posters or have you selectively difused those comments from whom are in your camp? In the tone of my replies I can accept your uppercut: no problems.

I will not concede that the iCadetship, it's contract & what it means to CX & the profession in general is anything but an absolute slur.

Some fight for high standards & others rely on the lowering of them.

Aspiring Aviator

30th Jul 2012, 13:11

Hi all, my first time on these forums so don't lynch me please.
I've wanted to be a pilot and when i saw this cadet programme, I thought I should give it a go so I have been preparing. However, I think the notes I have are rather lacking. I'd be grateful if you guys could post the books and notes you used so that I can find myself a copy. Also did the Microsoft Flight Simulators help? I'm going to buy myself a copy soon, but I've also considered the thing from http://www.flightexperience.com.hk/ and wanted to know if it would be worth it.
Thanks for any information!

Smackbang

30th Jul 2012, 16:40

I could easily delete or edit that post(s) showing my error but I'l happily keep it there to admit I was wrong

What a humble man you are. Truth is, you have been named and quoted by the others while correcting you and deleting your posts will only make you look like more of an ar$e, and you know it :ok:

I worked my ar$e off, studied my ar$e off & sacrificed all that was needed to get to where I am today

Skipped a few maths classes on the way. Or did you sit those out because you THOUGHT you were too good?

When you reduce the value of something by 80% what you're left with is 20%. I typed that slow for you. What future CX has when this is the level of applicant

Um, yeh :D

I earned the right to interview for CX as SO with a few thousand command hours & jet time

Are you sure you know who the cadetship is for? You seem to degrade people for not having enough pubic hair lol, but those inexperienced people are the only ones who should be looking at this programme. Not the best move on your behalf in applying for a cadetship after " a few thousand hours" of flying :eek:

If I'm abrasive then it's for a reason: your ignorance & immaturity is a slur to all I & many others worked so hard for

The "many others" are probably living their lives in peace and motivating other young pilots.

CB, give advice as it seems you are in a position to do so. But dont shove it down others throats. People will still apply for the cadetship, become SO, accumulate P2X time, become FO and have an airline career even if it is as pathetic as you make it out to be. They will go ahead and train as CX pilots and when the doom and gloom housing situation that you mention hits them, THEY will deal with it in THEIR ways. So you and your ego can take a walk because no one is going to sit down with a CX contract in their hands and think about your bs after having done their own research into living conditions in HK and finding them suitable for themselves. Your preaching aint worth jack. So build a bridge.

AppleMach

30th Jul 2012, 21:41

Hi, just a quick question for someone who's been to the stage 2 interview. Im filling out the paperwork they sent, which includes 5 logbook cover pages for you to staple photocopies of the relevant pages to. They ask for the last page, certified by my flight school, (which it isn't as that was a while ago now) and also they then ask for proof of 100 hours PIC. Im tempted to staple to two pages to the same copy of the last page as obviously thats where ALL the totals are! Am i missing something here!?

Ta
AM

100187259

30th Jul 2012, 22:43

It seems to me that on average, applicants have to wait for 6 months before they are scheduled for their first stage interview (more or less). So what if i know that im going to get my cpl in the next 6 months, could i apply online early and update my application constantly. So, by the time i receive my CPL, will i be scheduled for first stage interview faster than those who just wait until they receive their actual CPL and apply ? I mean is that possible ? has anyone done this before?

Im just trying to cut down on the waiting time, that is all.

Thx for any info

Cpt. Underpants

30th Jul 2012, 23:15

1001

No, don't be ridiculous. Apply when you have the licence in your hand.

I don't know of anyone who can predict, with any amount of certainty, what is going to happen TOMORROW, let alone 6 months from now.

By applying before you have the licence, you're more likely to hobble yourself than create an advantage.

SloppyJoe

31st Jul 2012, 01:21

Are you sure you know who the cadetship is for? You seem to degrade people for not having enough pubic hair lol, but those inexperienced people are the only ones who should be looking at this programme. Not the best move on your behalf in applying for a cadetship after " a few thousand hours" of flying http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif

The cadet program used to only be for locals. If an expat wanted to join CX they needed to have a lot of experience due to the competition for places. There was a lot of competition as the employment package was pretty good. Minimum hours for joining as an SO were about 3000 hours of which most would be command time on twin turboprops or right seat on jets. Most had far more experience than this.

The only reason inexperienced expats are now getting into CX is because the conditions have been lowered to the point that guys with experience look elsewhere.

ChinaBeached

31st Jul 2012, 02:15

Ahhh Smackbang...... Would it be wrong to assume you are another persona using another username to throw some more dirt?

I admitted my error but you seek more cheap shots. Well done tough guy. Then again, cheap is what cheap does, and eventually what cheap gets.

And like the many others your ignorance shows through. You have done little to no reading of this entire thread. I never applied for the cadetship: never. It didn't exist when I applied, passed the interview and was sent the congratulatory letter to await the start date. I await your apology.

They will go ahead and train as CX pilots and when the doom and gloom housing situation that you mention hits them, THEY will deal with it in THEIR ways.
And they will happily and proudly degrade the airline and industry at the same time. Because as you seem to put it, it's all about the me-me-me generation and screw the long term consequences to the industry. If by the use of these lower than low standards you do land a job at CX, you'll be amongst the first hypocrites complaining about pilots being their own worst enemies or when management attack your contract and other pilots stab you in the back.

I've shared many constructive personal messages with iCadet wannabes asking my opinion, experience and other options out there, and why I believe so. They had the maturity to swap opinions in a constructive debate. I've also written most of it in other threads. You haven't the maturity to at least go back and read the entire thread before firing your mouth off at me. But then again at 20 years of age there couldn't possibly be anything you don't already know, eh? I refuse to "motivate" anyone to join the race to the bottom. There are enough flies running and tripping over each other to join that quagmire you seem to need to get a job.

The only reason inexperienced expats are now getting into CX is because the conditions have been lowered to the point that guys with experience look elsewhere.
That's it in a nutshell.

etrang

31st Jul 2012, 03:32

Yep, I think you're wrong again. Anyway smakbang isn't me. At least you did admit your mistake, i'll give you that.

pilot2588

31st Jul 2012, 09:43

PropWannabe.... Im interested to know when did you apply?

I originally applied in 2009 with very little experience, since then I have done a lot more things to further my career as a pilot. I tried logging on to update application which ever time results in the page saying system unavailable, I have emailed and asked when interviews are likely to be several times and each time I get the same response.... Not enough applicants in my area.... but my area is the UK. When I click the forgotten id / password and type in details it says I do not have a profile, yet Cathay have a Reference number for me?

I have sent them another email today... Any ideas would be helpful though. I have a PPL, night rating, 75 hours flight time, and speak chinese mandarin.

cheers duncan

mysterywhiteboy83

31st Jul 2012, 14:15

Hi guys, can anyone tell me if Cathay pay a salary to you during training in Australia and if they would halp with visa's for spouses?

Cheers

Cpt. Underpants

31st Jul 2012, 16:14

You get an allowance, pocket money. Not a salary, whilst under training. I don't know the amount, but it's about AUD 130 a week. Pocket money.

Help with a visa? No. You're not working in Australia, you're "studying". If you want your dearly beloved to join you, apply for a visa for her. It's an easy, online process (unless there's a reason why they may not want her there, in which case, good luck).

Just as a matter if interest, have you read any of the CX documentation regarding the course, or even googled "Australian visas"? Have you read ANY of the preceding posts? Anything? Your "passion" for flying taking up too much of your time?

retardretard

31st Jul 2012, 21:19

Would command hrs on a medium jet (a 320) speed up the process from SO to FO.
Maybe I should wait a while for DEFO vacancies.
RR

krislamb

1st Aug 2012, 06:01

Is there anyone knows what is the procedure of CX CPP selection process now? As I have been waiting for about three months, but still haven't got any response yet. Thank you everyone.

adamctk

1st Aug 2012, 10:54

It should be $105 AUD weekly.

100187259

1st Aug 2012, 20:19

Is there anyone knows what is the procedure of CX CPP selection process now? As I have been waiting for about three months, but still haven't got any response yet. Thank you everyonei would say three months is nothing. As other people have waited up to six months just to be scheduled for stage one interview. i know that waiting is frustrating, but all i can say is be patient.

JoNvAn

2nd Aug 2012, 03:56

Just heard from rumour that the Aviation Math test will be replaced by the COMPASS test. Anyone has any details on it that can be shared?

krislamb

2nd Aug 2012, 09:19

100187259

Thanks for sharing

jumpseatCAPT

2nd Aug 2012, 09:46

jonvan,

You are right, a 90min COMPASS test is in place of the Aviation Maths Test for Stage 2. I believe it will be similar to the one that OAA does for applicants.

-jump.

SussexPilot88

2nd Aug 2012, 11:59

Hi

I applied in April of this year and as of yet have not heard anything back. Im aware that the process is a long one and that i could be waiting for up to six months.

I was however hoping somebody UK based on this forum could give a step by step guide as to time periods related to hearing from Cathay and interviews etc?

Thank you in advance for your help

SkylineR34

2nd Aug 2012, 19:27

Anyone has more detail on the new COMPASS-based math test? Is it just the math part of the COMPASS or the entire test?

Thanks for reply.

Pyromania

3rd Aug 2012, 16:14

Hi,

Is anyone going for Flight Grading from August 18 to August 25?

Please PM me.

Thanks!

Pilotofutur

4th Aug 2012, 05:09

Hi folks,
I have finally read all pages of this thread and I learned a lot here about the CX Cadet Pilot Programme.
I understand that it is a good option for young guys with zero or just 250hs if they work as SO until finally upgrade to FO, then build 1000hs and get another job in an airline where he/she could become a captain in even 5 years.
For the guys in their mid-late 30s (or even early 40s, if they hired) would be a bit complicated because you could never become a captain before retire. If try to get out as soon you reach 1000hs as FO, well, your age would be next to 50.
But suppose a guy that love aviation, love to fly, love airplanes, crazy schedules, flight attendands, layovers, etc, etc....and this guy is pilot just for hobby but his career dream 20 years ago was to become a Flight Engineer (or something like that). In this case, the CX would be great for him especially considering he is single and has other source of income (real estate properties for rent). Am I right about it?
This guy is my cousin. We will finish CP and Av. degree in december. I am on my early 40s and want to apply for the programme. If hired, spend some years as SO, build 1000hs as FO and jump to corporate aviation in my country. But that guy (late 30s) want to fly just for small freight companies or air taxi because the Flight Engineer job has gone.
I wanna encourage him to consider SO at CX as alternative to his dream. I know he would be happy even if stays in this position until retirement. LOL.
Any advices welcome. If I am wrong about it, please correct me.
Sorry about the structural sentences as english is my second language.
Thank you.

ChinaBeached

4th Aug 2012, 09:22

Something to think about (but if you truly had read every page of this thread you'd know the answer):

Whats say I'm rich & have decided it'd be a cool thing to occupy my spare time in the real estate market. I'll buy all the houses around your rental properties & rent them out for around 60% less than you. I'll be undercutting the market & screwing you over. But you see, it's my "passion".

I mean, what do I care if it screws up your income, livelihood or that local market? After all, I'm rich, can afford to do it, it won't affect me & it's just something that looks like fun for a while....

I'm really, really passionate about real estate. Hope you don't mind though. :ugh:

PS: I submitted my purchase approval to the council housing department almost 2 hours ago! When will they reply to me???? But what if I don't have any property experience, can I still buy? And what about nationality about buying property? Can I get involved? Is there an age limit to get involved? I mean, it would be INSANE for me to actually call the Housing Department to get 100% accurate information!!

100187259

5th Aug 2012, 18:36

say u got hired by CX, can you choose if you want to pilot airbus or boeing airplanes ?
and does one know how many days out of one month do u work as a pilot ?

p.s i personally want to operate airbus aircraft cuz i want to get my hands on the new a350 !!!

thx

SloppyJoe

6th Aug 2012, 00:17

Actually you go on a Boeing aircraft or the Airbus fleet. Airbus guys start on the 340 and after about a year also fly the 330. The plan with the 350 is to have guys flying both the 330 and 350 whilst CX get rid of the 340. I would really advise against asking to go on the Airbus as an SO, 4 years of much shi:mad:r rosters compared to the other.

tupps

6th Aug 2012, 10:07

chinabeached, are flying on a permanent contract for an airline?

ayau813

10th Aug 2012, 23:56

Hello, i'm new here and would just like to ask a few questions for those who have had experience/been successful.

I'm really really interested in the second office cadet programme but have no previous experience in flying. I've always loved planes and dreamt as a child to be able to fly one one day. However, due to facilities where I live in the UK, I never had the opportunity to become involved in aviation.

I know that there is a programme for those who have low flying experience but not sure if they accept those who have none. I do meet all the criteria they want/prefer: I am british born chinese with first language English Cantonese 2nd language), Full permanent HKID, Achieved the GCSE/A-Level required and working towards a degree, Good fitness and health, 173cm height, 20 years of age and I definitely have the passion they require to become part of their team.

Please help me out on a few questions I want cleared up and give me some helpful tips on applying. Thanks in advance:

1) When does the 61 week training start? I'm currently in my final year of university and will (hopefully) graduate in summer 2013. Is it ok to try applying now even though I won't be able to begin any sort of training for another year?

2) Are there interview facilities in UK? I won't be heading back to hong kong for a year or two now (unless it's crucial to go there for the interview)

I would really appreciate for someone to help answer these questions and also give me some helpful tips. Thanks so much.

gone_with_the_wind

11th Aug 2012, 07:57

Dear mates,

I have heard that the ICAO test format has been changed recently after the leave of Brian Slade. For example, the vocab part was removed, and it will be like an interview JUST asking some casual questions.

Anyone got more information about this bloody test? I will attend it in a week, so need help urgently!! :ugh::ugh:

Thanks in advance!

orangeboy

11th Aug 2012, 08:05

best thing is just try and relax and pay attention during the test. Your english seems pretty decent and its really a test to see if you can understand english and use english in other settings.

When i did mine a couple years back it included:

- Explaining words/phrases
- Listening to recordings of conversations in different accents and explain what was going on
- Explain a picture
- Pick items from a list and explain why you chose them
- Watch a short video and explain what happened etc.

The hardest bit is probably listening to the recordings as the accents can be quite strong so you will have to pay close attention to what is being said.

gone_with_the_wind

11th Aug 2012, 08:25

thanks orangeboy.

what i meant by last message was that the format you mentioned had been changed few weeks ago.....

so no more explaining words/phrases/a picture, picking something from a list ... while i'm not sure if the video recording part is still there or not...

nsk.air

11th Aug 2012, 09:25

I have cleared my stage 2 in Hong Kong.
Anyone having Flight grading feedback?

GregA380

11th Aug 2012, 17:33

The ICAO English test at CX has changed for the better. After my last test Brian recommended me attend presentation classes, watch American comedy shows and talk about strange topics like Lady Gaga which I thought was wierd, eh? This did not prepare me for the test I did last week.

I love aviation and flying and I know Brian lied to me because all my friends say I communicate well. I did study in England after all.

The test I did last week included general questions about aviation topics; questions on the topics heard on audio conversations; aviation picture description and related questions and aviation video description and related questions.

The ladies in the test room relaxed me and I felt good because I was talking about my favourite topic – flying. I feel it is fair to be asked questions about aviation. This is the career we are preparing for.

I was recommended to look at the following sites to develop my aviation English skills on a continue basis: "skybrary", "LiveATC.net", "ATC readback" and "Air Crash Investigations"

I think the people who now do the testing really want us to succeed, and my advise to you is go out and start learning English for Aviation. Anyone you have to buy coffee, lunch or dinner for is not interested in helping you succeed in your dream to be a pilot.

Please reply your feelings below::=

XLAN

12th Aug 2012, 03:16

Greg A380 : Join date Aug, 2012
Post : 1

Come on do you think people are blind? Are you from one of those aviation English organizations which give course on ICAO english? This looks like just another attack on Brian Slade :ugh: and a piece of advert.

Anyway, i don't know if the ICAO test has really changed but i will take this guy's words with a pinch of salt. :} Mind you!

GregA380

12th Aug 2012, 03:42

If you choose not to believe me that's up to you.

You could always go and ask the people who deliver the test instead. They don't bite.......then you will know for sure. Communication is the key!:)

Machfive

12th Aug 2012, 06:42

Now now..he/ she is only trying to help.

google88

12th Aug 2012, 14:14

the compass test is done during your flight grading.u will have a tech written (multiple choice) maths test and a lot of other stuff to do in compass test.its approximately 90-120 mins depending on the candidate. i am not sure if its the same for cadet program but i had to give the compass test when i was down there for the advanced entry flight grading.

chan1008

12th Aug 2012, 14:48

Hi Greg A380 , thanks for the info. I do believe you, in fact the exam format you described closely match from what I heard from the peoples who are waiting for a retest, mind sharing more detailed info on the new format? (Especially the area we need to pay attention)

Thanks for sharing

gone_with_the_wind

12th Aug 2012, 15:49

chan1008

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 4

I will attend the ICAO test soon and will know if anyone is lying. :mad:

rainbow_world

12th Aug 2012, 22:09

Hi, I was asked to send the application form by May 12, 2012 and I've still not heard back from Cathay. I wanted to ask about how long it takes for them to reply back?

lonestar2012

13th Aug 2012, 23:29

Hello guys,

I am invited for 2 nd interview in HK, and I am told to Re-Do reasoning test again, which I already did in my 1st interview. Has anyone been told to do Reasoning test again?

Thanks in advance.

orangeboy

14th Aug 2012, 00:56

Best would be to just confirm with them if you need to do it again through a simple email. :)

chan1008

14th Aug 2012, 02:36

gone_with_the_wind..
Well...Good luck with your ICAO exam, and hopefully hearing some feedback from you after you completed the ICAO^^

google88

14th Aug 2012, 05:50

yes there are a few guys who are asked to do the reasoning test again. nothing to worry about just do some online practice and u should be fine.

lucky86

14th Aug 2012, 07:27

No need to practice reasoning test.

Just do the test, and get out.

Don't pretend to be someone you're not.

Michael Egerton

15th Aug 2012, 13:42

Come on do you think people are blind? Are you from one of those aviation English organizations which give course on ICAO english? This looks like just another attack on Brian Slade and a piece of advert.

Anyway, i don't know if the ICAO test has really changed but i will take this guy's words with a pinch of salt. Mind you!

XLAN
GregA380's post was accurate and genuinely useful. Thanks for someone telling it like it is.

So XLAN, do you seem to dislike Aviation English organisations? Do you ever think that these standards are for your benefit and that you should be incredibly grateful to people that dedicate their time, experience and unique skill set to actually help people?

Or are you scared that companies like Aviation English Asia, have a very accurate impression of the very real lack of language proficiency among airline pilots.

ICAO English standards were introduced primarily for flight safety not to make money from poor HK locals who want to be pilots but think that focusing on English just for the test will help them.

I received abuse from Slade for 4 years. Some students betrayed me after being pressured by Slade. Slade evidently hates me, because we make him look incompetent. He is. And dishonest too. But I'm not the real victim. The real victim is the public that fly on these flights under the belief that current CX/KA pilots have an operational level of English. Brian Slade's interpretation of the ICAO LPRs in Document 9835 is so absurd that any competent member of a rating organisation would cringe. Here's an example "there is no grammar in the icao test, you just need a good structure- like a beginning, middle and end".

Thanks for this great advice Brian. I'll tell that to your children when they take their HKCEE.

Slade deserves to be publicly criticised on these forums not only because he is a liar, a defamer, and a fraudster peddling irrelevant and useless english classes that are completely inadequate for the purpose sold. He is exploiting the ignorance of Hong Kong people and the Chinese culture of bribery. Brian Slade and Marcus DeSantis have created a culture of intimidation, where pilots are afraid of losing their job for fear of reporting what happens.

If you think that bribing an assessor is an appropriate behaviour for a pilot then just go and give your money to Brian Slade, James Strang and Marcus DeSantis because honestly you would never ever enjoy what we do on our courses.

Do you want to know something else? Professional Aviation English teachers don't hang out in Starbucks or baptist university. We spend 8-12 hours a day talking to real pilots, ATCs and people in the industry. We learn and study aviation constantly. We have to, because we are pilots affected by the lack of language proficiency in commercial aviation too. But despite the need it's hardly a goldmine - it's incredibly difficult work.

Some days we don't even have time for adverts. But airlines like our values, and they like our students so to be honest our students are the best advert we could ever hope for.

ayau813

15th Aug 2012, 14:19

Hi. I'm a third year university student in the UK. Would it be too early to send out an application before I've actually graduated?

Also, how much do they expect you to know for the initial interview if you have had no aviation experience whatsoever?

Thanks

SloppyJoe

15th Aug 2012, 16:21

The real victim is the public that fly on these flights under the belief that current CX/KA pilots have an operational level of English.

Are you being serious?

After 5 years at CX not once have I thought another pilots English was even slightly unsatisfactory.

How many years have you been flying for CX?

If the answer is none, which I think is highly likely, you need to wind your neck in as obviously do not know what you are talking about making comments such as that.

If someones English is not satisfactory I highly doubt they will only fail because of the ICAO test. The interviews are all in English, if it is not up to standard this is where the biggest problem with language skill will be.

Michael Egerton

15th Aug 2012, 17:35

If the answer is none, which I think is highly likely, you need to wind your neck in as obviously do not know what you are talking about making comments such as that.

No offence taken, but I do know exactly what I'm talking about and strive every day to solve these problems. There are five main reasons for the lack of proficiency.

1. The previous ICAO test did not test operational language and Slade created a washback effect wherein focus was on the test not on genuine language proficiency outside of the limit of the test. This incidentally had not changed in five years.
2. ICAO level 4 as a global standard is not exactly great. It is illegal for an airline to insist on a higher standard.
3. Culture
4. Attitude of language professionals that think they know everything.
5. Attitude of aviation professionals that think they know everything.

When you have first and second officers that can't distinguish "there are fumes in the cabin" from "there are films in the cabin", or can't distinguish common words you have a problem.

Interviews are sometimes a good tool for assessing language proficiency, and I do partially agree with you there, but there are some things that a need a language test with some scientific data behind it.

Also language proficiency can deteriorate - there are many reasons why. If your experience within CX has been different then good for you. I hope it stays that way, but please consider that there are language professionals that are trying to improve communications and changing the attitude of people that don't know what they don't know is our biggest battle.

ashdaman

15th Aug 2012, 19:06

Hey guys..
I submitted a application in June,but up to now not had any reply :-(
How long does it usually take for a response presuming you do if your unsuccessful???

orangeboy

16th Aug 2012, 02:02

Just be patient. Most people wait 6-12 months for an interview.

HKID holders or people with considerably more experience can normally expect a reply sooner (but not always).

Also depends on which program you have applied to and where you put your preferred location to be.

Michael Egerton

16th Aug 2012, 18:31

greatbattle

Ask to speak to Eric or Rachel. I will try to find a specific email and phone number for you. My understanding is that actual ratings were not given until you had received the offer and were about to go on your adventure weekend before Adelaide. I thought that you just got an invitation for an eye test or the next stage if you scored above ICAO level 4.

In my view everyone who got an ICAO level 1,2,3,4,5 or 6 in the previous test should consider that rating as worthless and not an accurate representation of their actual proficiency. If you get a 4 or above in the new test I believe that (based on recent data and those now involved) it is accurate. If you are ICAO level 4 in the new test, that probably means your English still needs work - it's the bare legal minimum to fly.

The ICAO level 4 standard was only set because a lot of old ex-military pilots in russia, china and south america had very little chance of reaching level 5 so the research group that initially advised ICAO settled on 4 as a reasonably achievable global level. Most of those guys already knew how to fly, they just needed to learn how to do it in English. For a Cathay cadet pilot you have to be capable of learning how to fly in English, plus a whole lot of other stuff that isn't in the ICAO descriptors.

If there is a delay in getting feedback, it's probably because of the massive overhaul needed of the system. They also need to retest current FO/SOs which is probably a higher priority than cadet icao tests. In the interim you can always message me, set up a consultation and I'll tell you informally if you are way below 4, borderline 3/4 or approaching 5 based on global benchmarks and a few things that you can or can't do.

Another point mentioning is that if you are level 3 that doesn't mean that you can't do more practice and then retry in 3-6 months. If that is the case you have more chance of getting a level 5 (well, you would if you are an AEA student). There is no pressure to do anything with a specific provider and you can take your time, prepare more and enjoy improving your English.

AEA students that spend 2-6 months doing classes maybe two or three times a week tend to do very well, and absorb a lot of Cathay character from our teachers.

crwjerk

18th Aug 2012, 04:57

You cannot study for an aptitude test. It is not knowledge, it's something you've either got, or you haven't.

Cpt. Underpants

18th Aug 2012, 09:10

kawcraft

That has to be the most asinine question I've ever seen asked on any forum, ever.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, don't. Don't do anything in aviation. Stay away from airports, pilots, propellers, engines, metal, composites, air, wind tunnels, everything. Everything.

flyber

18th Aug 2012, 12:22

Any news on cx ab initio interviews for non hkid holders who were in the interview process prior to the hkid ruling by the immigration but have been left in a waiting pool?
Any rumour of an appeal for such a case?:rolleyes:

Clish

19th Aug 2012, 01:17

there is no appeal unless government chances their mind about the legislation. :sad:

Ricson

19th Aug 2012, 07:37

For the latest information I received, they split the initial test into two.

Initial A: Technical MC Questionair (45min)
Compass Aptitude Test (90min)
If you pass, you will be notified within 2 weeks time and be invited to initial B on another day.

Initial B: Reasoning Test
HR and Technical Interview
CPP Personality Test

Hope I can go through the initial A on Tuesday:)
I received their new arrangement just one week before the assessment :hmm:

lucky86

20th Aug 2012, 12:14

Anyone on CP54 starting in November please PM me.

tupps

20th Aug 2012, 14:33

with regards to the holding pool, plenty of people are being placed on CP courses, if you were at stage 1 or beyond before the legislation was implemented then you will be ok.

JoNvAn

20th Aug 2012, 14:36

lucky86 did you make it to CP54?
If you did congratulation.
Any tips you can share for the flight grading?

Bye Bye Baby

21st Aug 2012, 01:07

Midnight Cobra (WTF)

Trying to get around a system is the way they got themselves into such an enormous mess with basings.
HK Immigration has been pretty clear with them so I don't think what you are suggesting would be considered.
They have already tried it anyway, 0hrs - instructor in ADL then work with FTA for 3 years, then get f*(#$ over by CX when they change the contract on you.
Your plan would only work for Aus residents anyway as the Aus Gov is not going to give a working visa to someone with no qualifications for them to "work" for FTA.
So many holes in your suggestion.
Just remember also that you will never get an Australian base either, from the DFOs mouth.

Clish

21st Aug 2012, 03:16

cx is not going to jump through all those hoops for you. simple as that

kawcraft

21st Aug 2012, 17:00

Congrats u got in!! which month did u apply and how long did u wait to get ur first stage notification?

kawcraft

21st Aug 2012, 17:12

LOL. OK! SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE!!! ;) ;).

tupps

21st Aug 2012, 22:46

Kawcraft, a well rounded and positively inspirational reply, with regards to your aptitude practise, I found that standing in the middle of a motorway and dodging the traffic helped, go try it!

bape1234

22nd Aug 2012, 12:37

Hi everyone, I applied to Cathay Cadet around December 2011, I still haven't got any reply yet. Also, I try to re-apply for the program again, but the system doesn't let me, it just said that my application is on process.

Is that mean I am on the waiting list? What else I can do now and how long does it take for them to reply?

Many thanks !

bape1234

22nd Aug 2012, 13:41

MidnightCobra: I mean 2011.... :ugh:

kawcraft

22nd Aug 2012, 15:10

whered u pick ur preferred location?

if its not HK then it could take much longer

bape1234

22nd Aug 2012, 15:13

Ahh, maybe thats why.
I pick UK as my first choice....coz when I applied, I was at uni in UK, but I just graduated and back in HK.....
Do you know is it possible I can change it back to HK?

Clish

22nd Aug 2012, 22:33

just wait, some ppl waited more than 2 years before getting a reply. Good luck

MidgetBoy

23rd Aug 2012, 06:35

Every time an 18 yr old applies for CPP I facepalm. 18 yr olds shouldn't even start university yet, let alone be working in an airline.

GolfVictor777

25th Aug 2012, 22:48

Hello to everyone

i was called to attend CX Advanced Entry Second Officer Stage 2 selection process last year, But i was not lucky.

I would like to know whether cathay consider previously interviewed candidate??

If so will they be starting from stage 1 again or ll be directly called for stage 2

Clish

26th Aug 2012, 11:42

U can reapply after a year, starting from scratch

GolfVictor777

26th Aug 2012, 13:26

Thanks mate... do they prefer my application again or i should be lucky to get another call from them?

Flying Mechanic

26th Aug 2012, 14:45

All u Cathay wannabe's, apply to jetstar HK, at least you can get straight in the right seat, better for the career!

ChinaBeached

28th Aug 2012, 07:12

Jetstar require far higher minimums and standards than CX require :D From a quick google search Jetstar HK FO applicants require a minimum of:

- in excess of 1500 hrs TT with ATPL
- 500 hrs multi engine experience
- 250 hrs Command Experience
- Airbus endorsement or experience preferred.

Jetstar Hong Kong Recruitment: Attention (http://www.bfound.net/detail.aspx?JobId=108608&CoId=2041&rq=1)

CX's minimum requirements? ZERO hrs experience. That's why so many simply can't apply to Jetstar. And even if they could you'd find most still don't get the implications of a bonded SO position with a P2X rating as opposed to logging recognised hours in a control seat of (any) aircraft.

Who would've believed that a Low Cost Carrier would require better credentials than the almighty CX!!!??

SloppyJoe

28th Aug 2012, 16:45

Actually what he has said is correct. CX requires far less experience to join than the low cost carrier, JetStar.

The fact is that most if not all the guys getting into CX now would have had a far harder time doing that a few years ago when the package attracted candidates with a wealth of experience. I do not think it is wrong that you joined as that is what you deemed best for yourself but do not get upset when someone states a fact about the current employment requirements for two companies. You probably would not have got into CX 4 years ago if you were only recently recruited as you would have not been one of the best candidates, now it is a different story. Not saying you are incompetent or unsuitable just stating how it is.

TruthSeeker6

28th Aug 2012, 19:19

I wanted to chime in a few weeks ago but have been rather busy… Someone here (maybe not on this thread but on another in Fragrant Harbor) mentioned that it took over 18 months to even get a date for the first interview from CX. This is my situation as back in June of 2011, I received an e-mail which basically states that they(CX) could not give a date when they can interview me in my country of choice (US), but if I wanted to travel at my own expense to Hong Kong for the AE stage 1 interview, I was invited. I had replied, telling them it was okay for me to interview in Hong Kong but I never got a response, even after several follow up attempts. I find it interesting why a company would tell someone they are invited for an interview but yet, don’t say anything else and keep that person “hanging.” You would think that most company when they make that sort of commitment to tell you that you are invited for an interview, would give periodic updates as a courtesy. And what is up with the wait? I had been through the process to obtain a Top Secret Compartmentalized clearance (highest level) and it didn’t take this long!

100187259

28th Aug 2012, 20:40

Hi Guys,

i just read this article recently and thought everyone should read this
this is a excerpt from a news article
This airline-sponsored 32-week course will commence when successful students obtain their ICAO CPL and have met required hours in specific categories to meet HKCAD licensing requirements.
Griffith University School of Aviation Head, Associate Professor Paul Bates, said the breakthrough cadetship with the airline is expected to supply a significant number of its future pilotsthe rest of the article can be found on:
Aviation Business: Griffith University signs cadet training deal with Cathay Pacific (http://www.aviationbusiness.com.au/news/griffith-university-signs-cadet-training-deal-with-cathay-pacific)

does that mean there will be fewer spots for the rest of us applying for the 32 week advanced program ?
what is everyone`s take on this ?

ChinaBeached

28th Aug 2012, 21:08

No.Boundaries - no boundaries? Then what's all this "bond" thing then? Did my simplistic post on Jetstar's min FO recruitment standards vs CX's only pilot recruitment standards really make your lower lip quiver this much!?

Wow! All I stated was a fact. What a great dummy spit! Try to argue against me with facts to back up your gripe. You didn't and can't. At best you proved your pre-pubescent toys-from-the-cot mentality. You haven't even read the majority of my posts, as is evident by your ignorant claim.

As mentioned many times before, I interviewed for CX as SO to a far, far, far higher standard than "What do your parents think about you wanting to be a pilot" (a question actually asked, but you'd know that if you followed this entire thread as it was posted by a candidate advising other on what questions to prepare for from those he was asked). I was successful in the interview and eventually offered a job on C-Scale some 3.5 years later. I turned it down. Bitter? I reckon I've earned the right to be p!ssed off of brats whining about CX not getting back to them after they applied a week or even a month ago. Or the same mindless dumb-as-bat-spunk questions you and your mates generate, yet scream you want to be taken seriously?! Nut scratchers like you prevented those of us who put in the yards, effort & sacrifice from a successful, rewarding & financially secure career at CX.

No, we don't fly the same aircraft. I fly, you watch. You're not licensed to fly. It's a P2X rating kid. Stop pulling your pud.

You don't suffer the same fatiigue because in a control seat you make the calls, you put it together, you make it happen. Laughable that you think you're a part of that chewing on some sandwiches observing.

A few hundred square feet? And then some!!!! See, that's what a spine will get you when you're not the lowest factor and cheapest option to be left standing for a job. You exist because others turned it down. You live in what you deserve, and at an ever deterieorating capcity to pay for owing to the contract you begged to sign. Have you thought of where you'll place the nursery yet?

A few extra dollars? No, A LOT of extra dollars. My experience, hard work & crentials paid off elsewhere. And that's because I didn't sell myself out, worked & studied my ar$re off, relocated, travelled & sacrificed for years to build a competitive log book. The years of real hard work that the likes of you deem beneath them paid off. (Did you read that post of mine about the holiday joint I bought in Bali? Those extra dollars can be pretty cool!!)

The glory days are indeed over because of ignorant, spineless tossers doing it for less and devaluing the profession. You made it this way. You agree to it. You contribute to it. You are the degeneration of a once proud and great airline and profession. You never have the right to complain about pilots not sticking together and defending each other and their career. But you will because you think you have the "right".

Working hard to make ends meet? Working hard? You're kidding yourself. Your type deem GA too tough. How hard can you possibly work sitting, watching and making the occasional radio call? So it's tough to make ends meet eh? STIFF SH!T you sanctimonious brat! You are living on what you asked for. Don't complain. Maybe the truth about the predicament you asked to be in is hitting home? Maybe, maybe not but it will and then we'll see that lower lip quiver some more I figure.

There are many who agree with you. You attend classes in Adelaide together entitled "This is what a wing looks like. Does anyone know what it does?" You group together and draw strength in telling yourself you've "achieved" (HA!) something by joining CX to the detriment of the airline, the pressure placed on your colleauge's contracts and the downward drive of the industry as whole - all via YOUR actions which you are proud of and defend.

Kid, don't try to p!ss in a pot when you're still in nappies.

I'd like to say go interview for Jetstar - but you can't. I'd like to say go get a job on a light twin but you're still not even experienced enough for that. You're not respected by your colleauge's at CX let alone the wider aviation community. You are tolerated out of a dysfunctional desire of social etiquette. Nothing more. You represent all that many went before tried to prevent.

Your contribution to CX is the bonus cheque to management and the tax paid to the HK government: at best.

Next time you're "working hard" and "feeling the fatigue" on a P2X rating and observing from the back seat pluck up the courage to ask the Capt and FO if push came to shove whether they prefer YOU at CX and all you stand for in terms of standards and pilot remuneration or pilots from the pre iCadet days. See how your ego rides over that b!tch slap.

And so to quote yourself: (this is the crowning glory you idiot) as written here: http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour-wannabes/378978-cathay-pacific-cadet-pilot-programme-194.html#post7049558

I am a SO for CX via the cadet pilot program 61 week course. I changed usernames so management wouldn't find me. I have been SO for just over a year now and a lot of us are struggling to make ends meet. On top of that CX are always screwing with our rosters messing our plans on days off etc. The job itself is quite ok. You get to work with some professional people and travel to some ok destinations. The conditions are just not good enough for comfortable living in HK as opposed to my previous life style back home in the UK. If anyone has questions about life as SO at cx via the cpp just ask. Its the least i can do to warn others of what they are signing up for.

And this one:
@airgent for my own discretion i will withold the disclosure of my start date, but for the benefits side i started when there wasn't a $10k allowance and only on the 340. Now i have a huge huge $10k allowance, and CCQ on the 330 i think i will save for a yatch and that lp700 lamborghini i've always wanted (note the sarcasm)
To put it simply, benefits haven't really improved imho. I wish i had recieved these warnings back when i joined.

You're getting what you deserve. Too bad you didn't listen to "those warnings", eh??? This has got to be the greatest idiot I've delt with on this forum. I'm laughing too much to type much more & expose the big floppy feet & red nose.....

I've swapped some PM's with guys wanting a decent discussion. I don't brand all iCadets the same but I do vehermently disagree with their choice to be part of all this C-Scale entails.

bangout

29th Aug 2012, 00:35

no.boundaries,

Don't spark him up! Just after we finally get a lull, you've got him back to banging away with the same old drivel! The sooner people realise he is the kind of bloke that has an answer to anything and everything, and has the time on his hands to engineer lengthy responses, the sooner he will scuttle off...

j3pipercub

29th Aug 2012, 03:53

^I love this guy! It all sounds so teenage angsty...

ChinaBeached

29th Aug 2012, 04:52

Not good enough for CX? Which part of interviewed for the job, was phoned & sent the congratulatory letter informing me I was successful AND being offered a job didn't your knuckle-dragger brain not process?

Who works hard toward their dream job only to turn it down? It's called integrity & respect for the profession, let alone the same respect for the amount of work it took to be offered it. You don't get it you never will. Theres a saying about knowing the value of hard work. You didn't do it (but pretend or think you do as a backseat observer "flying" - still cracks me up you think you "fly"), so of course the value of self worth for the effort made is completely lost to your xbox brain. So now you assume I'm worse off? You are an idiot.

CX isn't good enough anymore? Interesting you throw that my way when it's you who wrote this post on the thread regarding CX's glory days fading:

Quote:
The glory days have been fading since April 1st 1993.

so the stories are true after all

(You also believe qualified to preach about circling approaches being discontinued.... Now let's do a reality check: outside of the wet nurse Adelaide playground when have you ever done one in a real aircraft??)

Get your hand off it kid & stop believing you do the same job as an experienced pilot. You haven't the knowledge or credentials to do so despite what your ego tries to tell you. I don't doubt for a second that you've thousands of hours of solo "stick time" but it ain't in an Airbus control seat!! More like the 400 sq ft apartment beneath the Tommy Cruise poster on the ceiling......

So in 3-4 years you'll join EK & earn millions, eh? So, after a probable 5 years as SO on a P2X then 2 as JFO/FO you'll have logged an ICAO recognised min hours for aCPL in a C152 at Adelaide & perhaps 1500 hrs in the RHS of the 'Bus. So let me throw this little pie in your red nosed faced:

https://ekgrpapplications.emirates.com/Careersonlineapps/JOB_VACANCIES/JobVacancies.aspx?Keyword=&Location=DXB&Department=FDC

You idiot. You're still short of the experience!!!!!! Your P2X hours are useless & not recognised as your ignorant shallow mind thinks. Yep, your bonded time is over but CX still have you by your yet-to-drop walnuts!!! You didn't think of that did you? I'd say you should once again change usernames, eh? You're bound by bond & by lack of experience to CX you moron for a far greater time on an insulting salary than those 6 years of the bonded contract. Obviously didn't consider that either.... So maybe you'll stay at CX going backward or barely neutral financially for another few years only to join the bottom of the seniority list at another large airline?

The guy who did the yards that you deem beneath you or too hard & logged real recognisable hours from the get-go is screaming years ahead of you financially & professionally. Your moronic username reeks of irony.

And no, the light twin gig is still beyond you. You haven't the Command time in a single piston that GA operators require let alone their insurance companies demand. Still didn't think it all through did we???!!!!

You're an insult to the profession. You actively choose to lower it & defend your right to do so for deluded self interest. You are the cheapest option, nothing more, nothing less.

hongkongdong

29th Aug 2012, 05:24

Chinabeached, are you not the cheapest option as a part-time contracted pilot? Surely integrity and respect for the profession would stretch to arguing for the preservation of permanent jobs for pilots, just like the good old days? You have no grounds to claim people taking this opportunity are an insult to the profession, simply based on the fact that you are YOURSELF depreciating the value of what it used to mean to be a pilot. The days of permanent contracts are now over thanks to people like you. You claim that we sit in Adelaide attending lectures entitled "this is a wing, what does it do?" yet have no experience down here, are you suggesting that the levels required to pass CPL and ATPL examinations are being lowered? Assuming the fact that you know qantas and dragonair along with the chinese search and rescue also train their pilots here, are you seriously implying that the standards are lowered for all these cadets, or just that via magic means the cx cadets are allowed to pass through knowing nothing? We work just as hard as you and any other pilot will have done to pass the exams. An ATPL is an ATPL whether it was issued 10 years ago or 10 days ago. You are imposing a fairly serious allegation against the HKCAD and CASA who invigilate and award these certifications and making a bit of a fool out of yourself.
The way you handle yourself on this forum is in itself a sad view of what modern day "pilots" have become, get off your computer, leave these guys alone and get on with your own things.

ChinaBeached

29th Aug 2012, 06:29

JJ - am willing to discuss things with you when you come to the table in a decent manner. It's appreciated.

No, I didn't have a rich daddy or family. Like most flying for an airline was all I dreamt about. I had enough saved up for a restricted license after I left school due part time jobs and school holiday jobs (building site labouring). I worked in bars and nightclubs as a glassy as well as laborer gigs off and on while learning to fly & study to make it happen. I drove from one end of Oz to the other to follow up the CVs I sent out and phone calls I made. Most/all operators said no via a phone call or didn't reply to emails or letters. Me standing in front of them gave a far different impression. I landed a job in a single, then light twin, then turboprop FO, Capt to a jet job. In the early GA days I still worked in bars to keep the momentum. I travelled from Oz through Asia to the UK during the first holiday I took in over 4 years since working as a pilot to hunt for a jet job when the industry in Oz wasn't hiring. After 6 months or so on the jet I was offered the CX interview (early 2008) and passed..... The iCadetship was not what I interviewed for. Mine & other pilots' careers are worth more.

I did not take out a massive loan but looked at the option when or if I would of had to. Not because I wanted to but because that's what it may of taken in tough times. The harder I worked the luckier I got it seemed.

For guys with as little as 500 hrs TT there are 320 and 737 jobs in Asia. That's perhaps a year to 18 months of "hard yards" which is nothing in the scheme of things. With more recognised hours comes more options. That how it works. No, RyanAir is not a bastion of good will in the industry but if you're going to make a choice over 2 evils of CX iCadet as SO on a P2X vs a RHS of a single aisle jet (let alone any job flying anything!!) then take the option to build your hours!!!! You then become the owner of your destiny and not at the mercy of CX and the bond that as you can see is far longer than just the 6 year period due the severe lack of recognised hours. And what of age vs experience? Airlines look at this as well.

Far too many iCadets hopefuls have not considered the big picture and long term realities. Others like the muppet above do it, whine about it (refer to his previous posts) and then shout from the rafters in a bi-polar manner defending it?! There are far, far better options out there that just take more investigation, planning, commitment and determination.

j3pipercub

29th Aug 2012, 11:11

I never get hints boundaries. Why are you so angry? Are you hungry? Finally come to the realisation that you are a soul-less sellout scumbag C scaler? Upset that you're just 'getting by'?

I am starting to think, or perhaps hope, that you are an exceptionally good internet troll.

ChinaBeached

29th Aug 2012, 11:22

That bottom lip's a-quivering again!!

But you are right: CX do not live up my expectations. They've come down to yours. I deserve better than CX can offer. No apologies there dopey.

What do "credentials" mean when we're both a 390? In the case of a non normal occurrence the pilot with the years of "experience" & "credentials" will deal with it. In amongst your bottom lip quivering your 1st Memory Item will be to remove soiled nappies while being thrown out of the seat where a pilot with a real rating who actually is licensed to "fly" does what you're not permitted, licensed or qualified to do.

I'll double check my TCAS whenever at FL390 & a pre-pubescent squeak lauding a CX call sign broadcastes....!!!!!

ChinaBeached

29th Aug 2012, 15:00

no.boundaries (but for the training bond / forgivable loan, lack of experience, lack of credentials, unrecognised hours and spectator-at-best license),

Let's just clarify your grammar before we go on.

When you state "I fly / flew" replace with "I observe / observed"
When you state "I work for" replace "I cheapened"
When you state "I do the same as qualified widebody pilots" replace with "I'm not qualified to do what qualified widebody pilots do"

Bottom lip quivering again? Did I not state absolute, undeniable FACTS? All facts of your P2X license, it's privileges, limitations as bound by the HK CAD.

So you passed the same "memorise the answer" CAD CPL & ATPL exams from the spreadsheets of the question & answer bank CX gave you? Well done champ! Head to Macau and start counting cards Rain Man!!!!!

My "arrogance"? You confuse self worth and refusal to cheapen the airline and profession as that. No one else. You've got to have it to realise it's worth. Same with integrity.

You're the lowest and cheapest option CX can find to fill a seat. FACT.

My friend?????
No. Never. My "friends" will not sell out and cheapen my career as you profess to be proud of. My friends have my back and won't pursue the cheapest and nastiest way to stab his "friends" & industry in the back as you so proudly do. Not on what you deem your best day (observing) or whatever cheap-as-hell option you subscribe to could ever make a guy like you a person I'd ever share a beer with.

So again, on your next "observation" ask the real pilots if they are happy to have an iCadet like YOU & all YOU represent on the flight deck as opposed to a pilot with a few thousand hours experience and not cheapening their job and profession. HTFU kid and ask the real questions at the coal face. You're tolerated out of disliked courtesy, not nor never will be out of any respect. Your career and how you got there will follow you to the end. You'll never be respected.

ChinaBeached

29th Aug 2012, 15:26

Now come on Donger Boy.... Do you seriously consider the CX provided spreadsheets of the question bank and answers to the CAD CPL and ATPL exams as being respectable? I've enough mates who've been through Adelaide as a DESO and all have been given those pages of questions for the CAD exams. I even have them myself!

This is beginning to feel like shooting fish in a barrel.

You get a CPL from a flying school in Adelaide. Conratu-effing-lations. You've gotten out of the cot and into nappies. We all go through it, but some of us use the credential to not cheapen the profession. So congrats on trying to get it! But no fella, that's where the comparisons end. Like your mate no.boundaries it'll be years before you fly a real aircraft again, pre-flight and sign out your own aircraft, create, submit, amend mid-air and act as a true pilot. But somehow you'll believe it your right to complain about barely making ends meet on the salary, commenting on standards and company limitations such circling approaches but then defending your ignorant decisions!!

I'm outwardly abrasive on this forum, no denying. Does that offend you? Why? Does not your abundant levels of integrity at what you've signed up for and what you contribute to not pasify the need to be offended? if you're offended by facts that I've mentioned then perhaps you should look at yourself kid, as opposed to me stating them. What if I dare say the world is round??!! I'll bet you'll scream denial if there's a cheap way to do it whereby you'll perceive it's in your own ignorant interest to do so.

I'm on a contract because the money and time off are so damn GREAT! You haven't the foggiest of what you're talking about kid. I'm also on a contract because the job a worked my a$re off for and was offered has been cheapened to a level that you need and I refuse. Hold up that piece of paper you signed with CX with yourself beside it in the mirror. It's called a "contract". You're employed as a "contract employee" by definiition. I'd like to think few could be humanely as plain dumb as you and no.boundaries but this is what cheap gets. Pay bananas, get monkeys. No, I take that back. Monkeys have proven to show reasoning skills. Let's not slur the monkeys.

They teach you the basics of a CPL at Adelaide. High fives over some Cottees cordial!!! Too bad they can't instill integrity for the job. There are however a few instructors there who I think may offer some advice as to CX's morality? Try them.

Cpt. Underpants

29th Aug 2012, 16:20

ChinaB

Your reference to the instructors in Adelaide is lost on this bunch. They've no idea who they're getting into bed with.

For the rest 100% on the mark, well said.

j3pipercub

30th Aug 2012, 00:35

Now no.boundaries, for someone who changed usernames so management can't find you, you certainly give a great deal away in 16 posts.

For example, You are an SO on the Airbus Fleet

I am an SO on the 330/340 from the earlier international cadet courses.

And you started with Cathay in early 2011

26th Feb 2012, 15:12 I have been SO for just over a year now and a lot of us are struggling to make ends meet

Soooo, on the Airbus, started early 2011. Then this kicker on the locked brakes thread

i heard about this also and didnt know if it was true or not. i was at melbourne airport that day. can anyone confirm?

So the original comment was about an incident on the 17th of August. Unless you just like flying to other countries and hanging around their airports in your spare time, you were on a trip.

So if I were in CX (You'd be surprised how many senior guys look at this thread), I reckon in 5 minutes I could narrow down exactly who you are. Just look for the Airbus S/O operating into/out of Melbourne on the 17th of August whose Staff number roughly equated to your start date.

And after comments about your F/Os and Capts like

I have to deal with the likes of you everyday the self proclaimed Gods of the skies! Spare me with your good T&Cs being threatened so what?? Airlines all over the world do these schemes thats how I got into CX and although I would enjoy the pay my direct entry counterparts are recieving i am getting by ok and doing the job i love. Flying! So spare me with your biggotry you old geezers.

AND

a few extra thousand hours in a log book does not mean you are a better qualified pilot when we both do the same job in the end! the route of how you get to airlines does not matter its getting three that counts!

AND

You self proclaimed sky Gods are starting to piss me off with your self righteous think your better than the rest of us attitudes. We fly the same planes and feel the same fatigue only difference is a few sq100ft space apartment and a couple extra $$ in the bank BIG DEAL!! Your so called AandB-scale days are over and the sooner you all realize the glory days are over the better things will be for the rest of us working hard to make ends meet. Tried holding it in but enough is enough it was time to voice my opinion and im sure many agree with me!!

I reckon your next trip and/or Sims are going to be a TREAT!!!

j3

'Hey Mav, do you still have the name of that truck driving school?'

Em773ER

30th Aug 2012, 02:46

You could learn a lot from these guys you call "old geezers". I certainly did and it helped me make an important decision not to join CX on the current package being offered. Insulting those above you (both age and seniority) is a sign that you are disrespectful coward. Acting the way you've been certainly does not help the fact that you iCadets are already looked down upon by your seniors. At least be modest and respectful.

Guys I see your efforts to reason with this guy, but don't waste your energy on the likes of no.boundaries, they will never understand the true meaning of respect.

ChinaBeached

30th Aug 2012, 07:56

no.boundaries (but for the training bond / forgivable loan, lack of experience, lack of credentials, unrecognised hours and spectator-at-best license),

How many ICAO recognised hours do you have as opposed to 777ER? He's on a turbo prop "FLYING", as is a C150 pilot or a recreational guy in a Tiger Moth. How many posts must you embarrass yourself about claiming to "FLY" when under the terms, conditions, privileges and limitations of your P2X it is simply ILLEGAL for you to manipulate the controls. You call others "arrogant" when you claim to do something you don't and are not legally permitted to just so satisfy this bi-polar ego. Do you Skype mummy and daddy about your "flying" and oh how proud they must be! How about tell them the truth that you were ONLY able to apply and be hired at CX because you sold out the profession and do it cheaper than other qualified pilots?? You are the result of others refusing to apply. You are the bottom of the barrel and cheapest option.

You also still persist on saying that I "didn't make it through". You're just cementing the imbecilic image of your own persona by repeating the same lies. I interviewed, passed and was offered the job. So how did I therefore "not make it through"? Refusing to accept an offer equates to "not making it". You're clearly as stupid as your spelling indicates. (We all make typos, but your general spelling reeks of your intellectual capacity).

777ER will have the credentials to "FLY" a jet far sooner than you, with a better salary and career potential. His log book is already far better than yours. He "flies"!! It'll take 2 years at the EARLIEST when / if you become JFO/FO. So, if you started at CX with 250 hrs (say) in 2011 (let's be kind and call it January), 5 years as SO still = 250 recognised hours, 2 years flying an average 750 hrs per year by 2018 you'll be where 777ER will be in 2014 if he started on the turbo prop in Jan 2012. You are so stupid that it's become laughable!

No mater what the comparisons, guys like 777ER will have what you will never have in the industry: respect from his colleagues and personal integrity. We see the iCadets dazed and confused about the world's airports and you have no idea of how you're laughed at....

You claim to "fly" here and there but you don't.
You claim I didn't interview, pass and was offered a job at CX, but you lie there as well.
You defend the iCadetship / iCannotship / iKidship but moan elsewhere about the salary and difficulty in making ends meet.
As above, you don't fly yet feel qualified to comment on issues such as "flying" circling approaches when you've at best done the minimum number for a CPL in C152 at a flying school.
You defend the standards at CX and yet comment [quote] "so the stories are true after all" in response to a post stating that the glory days have been fading since April 1st, 1993....

Bi-polar?

Answer us all this:

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU MANIPULATED THE CONTROLS (STICK) OF AN AIRCRAFT IN FLIGHT (NOT SIMULATOR)?

If you have not (well, we know you cannot due your license) then stop rubbing yourself into the sublime ignorance you expose yourself to here by repeating that you actually do "FLY" You're about to do yourself an injury kid, or draw blood soon.....! (You may as well and tell mummy and daddy the truth as well?)

At best you're an immature, naive, self denying idiot. In reality you're just a self satisfying pathological delusion fool about the role you play in the cockpit, airline and industry. All you've done here is demonstrated the disgraceful standard of the average iCadet / iCannot / iKid. It's not just me stating it but those who work for CX as well. You're not only a slur on the profession but to iCadets in general.

pilotchute - you subscribe to this defeatist attitude and believe we should all accept it. History is full of examples of people sitting back and watching sh!t happen thinking it'll be OK and it won't affect them....

No, you haven't done your maths at all. Even this moron no.boundaries (but for the training bond / forgivable loan, lack of experience, lack of credentials, unrecognised hours and spectator-at-best license) writes about it being difficult to make ends meet and wishes he'd heeded the warnings regarding the truth of the salary package. Please read this ENTIRE thread before posting about issues already covered ad nausea.

pands777

30th Aug 2012, 08:16

this whole cadet program, trying to hire pilots out of Pakistan etc are just more examples of the the quality of the CX brand falling out of the sky. I 100% agree with many non CX employees I talk to that the standard levels we now operate at are on a steep decline, with a special mention saved for cabin crew. This whole rostering debacle is a joke and is it going to take a major incident before management realise the impact is it causing

I came up here to fly for what I perceived being the best airline globally and now people to prefer to fly budget airlines than CX!

pilotho

30th Aug 2012, 12:06

To be honest, you both have valid points but I don't see the point in going at each other's throats unless you both aren't really flying that much so you're on here quite a bit.

At the end of the day, the time of stick flying is pretty much gone. Where I am, we are encouraged to fly the plane but I know in many places, you're encouraged to stick in CMD as soon as possible otherwise they think the plane will fall out of the sky. I have a friend who's an SO in CX and apparently you guys leave the A/THR in for the landing as well? Point is, the most important thing these days is to work together in moment of urgency, take a look at the QF A380. That's the sort of crew I want. Imagine if they were going at each other's throats just because of their senority during all those ECAM messages?

Being an SO isn't a bad thing but it's also not the best thing since slice bread. Again, from my friend's account, it was a JFO flying whom has 4 years of flying experience but yet struggles with a CDA. That just shows you're not really doing much as an SO as you're not really exposed to thinking about controlling the aircraft from CRZ to landing. You have to accept that in fact you don't know it all as an SO and in fact no one ever knows it all. If I was in command I would take your suggestions with as much weight as someone with more experience but just dump the "know it all" attitude.

Let's hope the attitude changes before we get another Tenerife disaster.

ChinaBeached

30th Aug 2012, 12:42

Valid points but not at all what this dispute is about.

(However, your post refers to a term called "resilience" in the airline industry and the capacity of an airline's pilots to fly without the autopilot......)

Imagine a kid with zero hours accepting to take the job offered you 3 1/2 years prior which you patiently & desperately waited for only to do it for far, far less money and degenerate the profession and then defending his choice to do so and carrying on like this brat does. You make a stand, vote with your feet and say no. And now you have to listen to this spoilt, ignorant, naive and moronic brat's bi-polar BS. That's the point. Tenerife is as alien to the modern day GenY P2X spectator sell-out child as is a happy meal without fries.

He's cheapened the profession and proudly supports & defends his decision to do so - while then b!tching about the salary he asked to receive and "fatigue" he suffers watching the qualified and licensed pilots do what he is not allowed to. He exists at CX because he's the bottom of a lowly barrel and the cheapest backside in a seat while the real pilot has a sleep, and then is replaced when the "flying" is required.

Those who can, do.
Those who do with experience, teach.
Those who can't or not licensed/qualified to, spectate.
Those with integrity know when to say no.
Those without integrity sell-out to the cheapest and easiest offer.

pilotho

30th Aug 2012, 13:20

I understand where you're coming from with regards to people jumping the queue and cheapening the profession but take it from another's point of view. A school leaver from HK who doesn't exactly live in a place filled with airfields have always wanted to be a pilot but also doesn't have to fund even to get a PPL let alone a CPL for him to build experience. CX now comes along and offer to pay for the whole thing so that he can realise his dream, I personally wouldn't say no to that.

Let's say there are 2000 people who wants to do this, how are you going to stop this? Even if you somehow got 1000 to say no, there will be another 1000 willing to sign up. This industry will always be heading down hill in terms of T&C and that's because there are simply too many people in the world looking for a job. The attitude of one cadet doesn't mean its the same for everyone however, there are guys there who knows what they are and are willing to take advice.

I for one like many others don't want the job to really become a mundane low paid job but sometimes there's nothing you could do. Once upon a time, people didn't pay for their training so who was the guy that said yes in the first place?

ChinaBeached

30th Aug 2012, 13:58

CX give you NOTHING for free. They make the "free" training back within 2-3 years via the reduced remuneration package as opposed to the other pilots. But you're bonded for at least 6 years? THEY'RE MAING MONEY OUT OF THEM! So you've well and truly paid for this "free" training and will continue to pay into the bonus cheques of these immoral and greedy managers for the rest of your contracted period at CX on C-Scale. Sort of like paying a cover charge to get a "free drink"..... The fools see "free" and go racing in!!!

Nothing we can do? YES THERE IS. You can say NO. It may take a spine and integrity though.

Who screwed it up in the first place? Well, sell-outs who signed up even before the $10k housing allowance was offered for example! So, following the sell-out down a path of eternal shame and disrespect of your colleagues makes it OK? No. You have a choice to make: part of the problem or part of the solution.

The former package would HAVE TO BE offered within weeks if everyone stood together and said no. To recruit the required pilots CX would be forced to offer a better package.

While I appreciate the opinion pilotho, the answers are simple. It just takes a pair of balls, a spine and some integrity - which as we can see is waaaaay beyond the likes parading a dummy spit bi-polar attitude here.

ChinaBeached

30th Aug 2012, 14:15

JJ - there are options outside of HK and right on your door step in Asia that will allow you far better career than CX can at present. I hope you can please research all them thoroughly before going down this CX cadetship. You can pursue your ambitions better if you do the research and preparation.

Good luck. From the PM's we've swapped I wish you the best.....

Steve the Pirate

30th Aug 2012, 23:54

CB

Hello again. You seem to be an intelligent, principled person so surely you must understand that this Quixotic quest of yours here on PPRuNe to dissuade others from signing on to the so-called iCadet package is doomed to failure. I think many who read your posts agree with you but sadly the reality is, as pilotho pointed out, for every one like you who turns down the package there are two standing in line to take your place.

So where to next after turning down CX? Most airlines around the world are hell-bent on driving down terms and conditions. Many of those that appear to be attractive now will, at some point in their future, attack the pilots' remuneration package. As Don Corleone would say, it's not personal, simply business.

We find ourselves in a once proud and sought after profession, the standing of which is being eroded by those we deem to be unworthy of judging us. Will things ever improve? I doubt it. Will they continue to decline? Probably, until the number of those refusing to work for what is seen as sub-standard conditions becomes a critical mass. Will that happen at CX? Probably not in the near future although it might happen if enough experienced pilots vote with their feet and go to other airlines.

Maintain your principles, enjoy your career but you have to let this obsession of yours go at some point - it just seems so unhealthy.

STP

ChinaBeached

31st Aug 2012, 01:01

STP - you're right.

Things only decline as such when others allow it to happen. Absolute ignorant and illiterate types like no.boundaries are CX's future now: a guy so full of delusions of grandeur, hatred for those with more experience, denial of his own position in the food chain and eager to dish out his own form of vengeance when the time comes. What a despicable individual.

Sadly, this is the future that guys like you have to deal with daily. I don't envy you at all. I hear the stories from my FO/SFO & Capt mates at CX on the 777 and 'Bus tell me all too regularly of hop-along SO whining about the salary and position that he didn't fully appreciate till now.... Sympathy? Hell no. As I wrote previously, I don't believe all iCadets to be as pathetic and deluded as they've shown here - but this guy has done nothing to promote the cause.

I wouldn't call this an unhealthy thing.... I was checking out a link a mate of mine sent me regarding Jetstar HK and posted it here with respect to the CX min requirements. A simple post really. Then this idiot found ignorant to reason to pick a fight. The combination of an outstation layover with free WiFi & the time to expose the pathetic existence of guys like no.boundaries are more to blame for the latest stint! Otherwise you'll note I've pretty much let the clowns have their circus.

MidnightCobra

1st Sep 2012, 03:10

CB what happened to you is a perfect example of what I fear. As I mentioned in the VA cadetship thread, what if I worked hard building experience (like you did) and in the end found out that all the airlines I want to work for are only hiring via cadetships? That's obviously worst case scenario, but it's possible. You got lucky in that there are still some respectable companies out there that pay their pilots what they should, and you landed yourself a nice job, and you were willing to leave Australia. For us young ones who are starting out now, the future isn't looking so good because, like STP said "for every one like you who turns down the package there are two standing in line to take your place" so good T&Cs are gauranteed to decline. Just a quick example to paint the picture... said kid gets his CPL + MECIR, flies singles for x amount of years before getting a light twin job, then progresses to turbo props for a regional company in hopes of getting hired by QF or VA etc, then upon having the experience for DEFO on jets, finds out that the only form of recruitment is via cadetships on lower T&Cs than a DEFO. Lets say this said kid never wanted to leave Australia or his family/friends, what then? Building jet experience overseas is not neccessary as he has the required experiene for DEFO. Again, that's worst case scenario. I look forward to hearing what you have to say CB, as you relate to this situation more than anyone I know. Any of you other experienced guys feel free to let me know what you think also. I enjoy a good discussion were people respectfuly offer their opinions, unlike this no.boundaries guy. Thanks

p.s I am not an applicant for the CX cadetship, but an applicant for the VA cadetship... its the lesser of the evils, and possibly the best if we dont get paid less than line pilots.

ChinaBeached

1st Sep 2012, 04:15

MC - an interesting perspective. But I think it's as you say "worse case scenario".

My angst (and so well put by STP as being quixotic in nature) is not against "cadetships". It's against the lowering of the standards, remuneration and the overall profession/industry. Look at QF. They've had decades of a successful cadetship course. No, the pilots were never as well qualified as the direct entry guys but they did not lower the terms and conditions of the airline or industry. Many airlines offer cadetships. As a ballpark figure the CX iCadetship lowers pilot remuneration by approximately 60% when you look at the long term picture. That's a massive amount. And now look at the calibre of ignoramus it therefore attracts.... The guys with the experience and credentials walk away in droves. The package now attracts what we have here: the likes of no.boundaries. Previously the minimum recruitment standards and competition for places weeded out such cases. They exist because they are what's left over and what is cheapest - all at the degeneration of the airline and profession.

CX pilots were seeking that ALL pilots, local and expat, receive the same remuneration package. They wanted to support the local guys who deserved the same package. Then comes the RDO (Racial Discrimination Ordinance) where a person cannot be discriminated against due their racial background. CX pilots argued that the company cannot pay the local guys less with reference to the RDO. So what did the moral management guys do? They LOWERED the package to the local terms instead of raising it to that of the larger pilot base. They did this in a year of record profits. And the guys in charge are raping in massive bonuses as a result: a few of them pilots themselves like that scum RH. Nice guys, huh?

So, it's not about the "cadetships" as such, it's what they do to the airline and profession and the calibre of person they attract. CX lowered the FFS (full flight sim) training from 12 sessions for pre iCadet new joiners (when they came with thousands of hours experience) to now just 6 for the virgin CPL kiddies. Greedy cost cutting in a place where they of all people deserve better and more training. Penny pinching, bonus hunting, greedy, immoral managers lining their own pockets at the expense of safety and training.

You believe I got "lucky" as I was able to find an airline that still pays well, and that I was willing to move overseas. That is not correct. By getting lucky it assumes I left things to chance. I flew what I had to, where I had to, worked damn hard and studied probably harder. I left nothing to luck or chance. My logbook, experience and study placed me in a competitive position to apply and be offered such jobs - nothing more than the former breed of CX direct entry guys did. The airline I'm with need(ed) direct entry guys with a few thousand hours experience to meet there requirements. I had that experience and so was able to apply. Go onto the recruitment agency websites and look at the number of jobs being advertised if you have the experience. No luck involved, just a lot of hard work and dedication.

As I've said many times, if you have your own hours in your log book you own your destiny. Otherwise you have massive "boundaries" due the chains of bond, license (P2X) and inexperience. Kids here bank on the lowering of the profession as a means to get in, not raising their own credentials to make themselves more qualified and attractive to an airline. These cadetships exist as a cost cutting and money making exercise, not as a safe let alone moral way to run a company. You either choose to part of the solution or part of the problem. Think about it. If a guy needs the disgraceful lowering of the job and the qualified guys to turn their back on the airline as a means to be hired it says more about his character and those behind it than anything else.

This is just my opinion but based on experience as a once wannabe to widebody airline pilot. You seem like a guy able to listen and make your own educated judgement. What a relief.

MidnightCobra

2nd Sep 2012, 04:49

Well said CB, I hope those who did not understand your disapproval of the CX cadetship before can understand where you guys are coming from. It's not the casetships, it's the lowering of the standards and that's what this current CX cadetship has done. As for the likes of the VA casetship I hope cadets will not get paid less than line pilots once checked to line. The you being lucky statement was wrongly worded on my part, I do apologize. I meant the luck you had was in the external things you couldn't control, like your company was hiring at the time (could have frozen recruitment), and was offering a good package (could have offered a crap package) etc, everything else is definitely kudos to your hard work no doubt. Since you're probably more in the loop than some CX pilots about CX, what do you think CX will do when these iCadets are competitive for other airlines? Improve the package and/or bring back B-scale? Would you apply for CX again if they brought back B-scale?

boxerpilot

2nd Sep 2012, 05:48

It has indeed been a lull. But definitely an interesting read. I can only safely come out here and say this because I had done my homework, studied the legacy carriers as well as LCCs and applied and got accepted. Jetstar, SQ ,silkair and CX were all placed before me. This recent thread started on jetstar's requirements for HK but did anyone actually know what was paid to an FO? Well I have seen their packages for JetstarAsia in Singapore and for the position offered to me as an SFO. It is less than an SO pay in CX...albeit we make Captain in 3years..but it's still an LCC. Those Ho have worked there will explain the subtle differences with walkaroud checks. No meals provided on board etc. Whereas with Singapore Airlines, all FOs start as cadets. Most are Asian from Singapore, Malaysia and most recently India. Now these are indeed zero hours guy with the same places for training like perth and marrochydoore with similar databases for ATPLs. But then again, there are not many threads out there that I could find complaining of their standards and abilities.
I do agree with some of the points noted and I equally sense the frustration of brand new cadets who don't have much of a chance getting the experience that has been mentioned so many times here.
With youth and frustration comes lack of emotional control and outbursts. My only advice to you guys is that it's your life and choice. Complaining about anything or voicing out to who that doesn't care what u think does not make you a better pilot. Just dig your heels in and be as good as you can be. Emulate from the senior guys, carry on the tradition of good airmanship that has been 'perceived' lost or non existent by Gen Y. I joined CX with a background. I accepted the terms cos I planned for it. But everything said about cost and lifestyle is true. No airline pays B scales anymore. Choose wisely and informed

ChinaBeached

2nd Sep 2012, 05:48

I don't think I'm in the loop better than other CX pilots, just that I know the process of interview as I went through it, know what both contracts are worth and also know what else is out there. I did my research into it all exceptionally thoroughly as anyone should when determining their career path. (Which is unlike all too many on this thread).

As has been said, if everyone walked away from the iCadetship CX would be forced to increase the pay. Supply and demand. As it stands the AOA states that CX are desperately short of qualified applicants and is already suffering. The 777 CP has offered / asked the 777 pilots to "do deals" with rostering to keep things afloat.... The AOA attributes CX's present crewing issues directly at C-Scale.

Even if CX offered me A-Scale I would not re-apply. I'm (not much) over 30 and the dream of most pilots is to hold a (widebody) Command. Due the seniority system that I respect and where it would place me I would be lucky to achieve my goal, and if so for not too long before retirement. CX does not satisfy that career goal for me. Plus, with CX's long history of failing to honour black and white contracts I know I could not trust them with my career as they are constantly looking at ways to cut & slash pilots T's & C's. One's past behaviour is the greatest indicator of one's future behaviour.

Will the present flock of iCadets jump ship when after their 6 year bond? Most can't even if they wanted to. They will have to build ICAO recognised hours starting from where they left Adelaide as all hours under the P2X are useless outside of the CX umbrella. So, as per my previous posts they are bound to CX for at least another 2 to even 4 years after the bonded period to build hours to go somewhere else. And then what? Join the bottom of another airline's seniority list? Not to mention he's competing for jobs against other pilots the same age with double to triple the amount of ICAO recognised hours.

So you see, look long term and appreciate the big picture.