Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme

[daac]

Yes that was my mistake, I putted USA then HK and UK, but when I called I told them that I was willing to travel anywhere. Hopefully they will call me soon.
How is the life in HK ?

[schweizer2]

It really depends what sort of lifestyle you like.

I grew up in HK and had the opportunity to live in different countries over the last few years and I know HK is where I want to live and have my career out of.

I suggest you put some research into life in HK... for example the price of renting property here etc. I am sure they will ask non HK candidates quite a bit about Hong Kong.

[daac]

Thanks for the advise i will start looking at some info. As far as i know HK is a good place to live, except for the rent. But that's not a problem you know for the passion we go anywhere ;)

[desi_boy]

Hi guys ,

Seems like cx is not really interested in hiring from india ... suriprisingly ... they didnt conduct any interviews in india in 2011 . But there wages are fine for us ( obviously not fine for europeans and americans ) ... Any comments ??

[liugorgor]

desi_boy

I suggested you read the whole 183 pages of this post to see whats the Cadet programme about or some basic aviation book such as BAK will be more helpful than that JKI booklet for you at this point.

Cheers

[lipoho]

Can anyone email me the JKI booklet & any other material please?

my email is [email protected]

[CX-A330]

greetings friends happy new year. is anybody have flight grading mid january? if you also have flight grading let me know or pm me so we can prepare together.

CX-A330

[Vpilot53]

Can anyone please advise me on the Stage 2 Advance course Maths test types of questions and also duration some people are saying 30mins and some say 60mins.

Anyone going to Hong Kong next week for stage 2 interview?

[Riccardowannabe]

Hello everyone, I've browsed through several pages of this thread but couldn't find what I need...could anyone please tell me all the possible info about this programme, the selection process, living in HK being a CX employee, the benefits and pros and cons? Requirement as well if possible...

I'm currently a cabin crew, and I've been desiring for a long time to become a pilot, but not enough money. With this program all of a sudden it seems a possible dream to achieve, even if I read many complaints from more experienced pilots in this thread about this programme. If anyone got the patience to reply I'll be thankful, thanks a lot, happy new year to everyone!

[kelevra]

Out of curiosity, how many pages of this thread have you read from the beginning?

[Riccardowannabe]

Honestly I've read around 20 pages scattered all around...due to my slow internet facility in my accomodation this took me ages, so I found it easier just ask for a reply of somebody kindly willing to answer...if you do not want to waste your time you could have even refrained from post your nice question

[schweizer2]

I would suggest you go back to page 1 and read from the start just like we've all done.

There are some very interesting posts in this thread with lots of information you may want or need... however! there are some posts you may want to just ignore... use your better judgement to filter out the posts you think are irrelevant to cut down on your reading time if you are in a rush...

best of luck... (there are many posts answering your questions)

edit: you've just posted befor me.... I too have quite a slow computer but honestly I would try read as much as you can, once you start reading you'll want to continue..

[Riccardowannabe]

thank you for you answer schweizer2, at least you were nice, I will try to read as much as the connection allow me ;)

[schweizer2]

No worries,
When you have done more research into the Cadet Programme you'll be able to ask more specific questions rather then just "what is the recruitment process" and im sure other candidates aswell as CX employees will be more then happy to help you.

People here do tend to like to help others, they just dont want to have to spoon feed everything...

Best of luck...

[kelevra]

No disrespect but I am insulted by your posts. I did not know about your situation and merely just asking a simple question and construct a conversation. I am always willing to help when asked.

Moving on... I suggest when you start reading, look out for the users "holdmetight" and "Em773ER". They're the users with the posts that stuck with me the most and made the most notes from.

Living conditions in HK? Ask away. I don't handle the bills but I have seen them. Pros and Cons? You might not like it but read the posts from people who discourage you from joining the Cadet Programme. You will need to hear both sides.

[Riccardowannabe]

Sorry maybe I just misunderstood your intentions, sorry if I offended you. Thanks for your suggestions, I'll fillter my search according to your advise.
All the best!

[daac]

Riccardowannabe did you apply for the Cadet program ? or not yet ?

[ChinaBeached]

You kids talk about "passion" and use the word as an excuse, nothing more. There are only 183 pages here explaining everything you ask. And yet some new "passionate" hopeful will within the next 2-3 pages post the exact same questions asked & answered countless times before.

You kids are willing to put more time into a damn Harry Potter book with more than double the pages that this thread has. Such "passion" when it comes to your career and future. You have the same passion for flying as I do a beer during happy hour. It's there, it's available and most importantly it's cheap and easy.

There are only 183 pages to read. Some you'll like, some you won't but it is ALL information about the job, the city, the salary, the career progression, the cost of rent, pollution, inflation, schooling, raising a family, how to update your application, and, and, and, and.....!!!

This iCadetship represents the lowest standards Cathay has ever sunk to - and you're all desperate to be a part of it because you think it is an "opportunity". What does that tell you? When 99% the experienced pilots turn it down or don't even bother to apply you are what is left to line the pockets via profit share and bonuses for management. They are FACTS and I don't care to sugar coat it for you.

You are not there due to your flying skills, because you don't need any. You are not there for your aviation experience, knowledge or credentials because again, the minimum application requirements state you don't need them either. You are there because you are the cheapest option. Nothing more, nothing less. And you're gullible enough to see it as an "opportunity"!!

As I said on another thread, one day a fellow pilot or airline management will stab you in the back, seek to lower the standards further and undercut your salary, terms & conditions yet you'll have the audacity to feel insulted when this is the culture you seek to "passionately" contribute to.

[Riccardowannabe]

Daac not yet, waiting to be able to read all the pages to be more informed. Why, can I help u somehow?

[ChinaBeached]

May I ask, what are you a Captain of? How did you earn the title or rank?

[daac]

Riccardowannabe

Just asking nothing in special. I applied couple of months ago but I'm still waiting.

[GTC58]

Reality Check:

Official CX international cadet program numbers for 2011

16600 applications
282 hired

[daac]

GTC58

Where did you get these numbers ?

[GTC58]

CX pilot newsletter

[Cessna414CC]

Was there anything else in regard to recruitment / hiring of any noteworthiness in the pilot newsletter besides numbers? Thank you

[GTC58]

no, nothing else in regards of recruitment

[BerksFlyer]

AIMINGHIGH123,

That is an interesting link.

With the cost of living, some of it will depend on your shopping habits. If you shop in the 'gwai lo' places then your expenses will be greater than they will have been in London buying equivalent things. There are cultural differences that can affect cost of products. For example there isn't the same binge drinking culture as there is in the uk (exceptions exist obviously) and locals will generally only expect to buy 1/2 drinks on a night out because they are £6/£7 each. Additionally, If you eat as a local eats then it will be far cheaper than eating the usual western foods. So of course if you were to live in HK and expect to live as you do in the uk/similar you may find your lifestyle too expensive to maintain on the current terms on offer.

I'd be interested to know the habits of the average SO on the current terms. That is not a criticism, I am not suggesting that many posting negatives on here are whingeing unnecessarily - I am just curious.

[blade]

City apartment 100% more expensive!!!!

with housing normally being the most expensive item on ones shopping list

[daac]

So I spoke with CX flight crew recluitment today and they said; starting this month all non Hong Kong residents applying for the cadet program with zero flight time will now need to have at least 250 hours TT and CPL

[Stallone]

:cool::cool:

"zero flight time but with at least 250 hours TT and CPL"

:suspect::suspect:

[daac]

Basically there were no requirements for the cadet pilot program before, but now if you are non HK resident you need to have 250 TT and CPL

[NEIN]

The expense of the housing is hardly compensated by the cheap daily expense..
As a Hong Kong citizen, I would say dwelling in Hong Kong is really hard...:bored:

[Jim-J]

A copy of your Class 1 medical certificate is required.
If you pass the initial stages then CX conduct their own medical on the applicant. How rigorous this medical is I do not know....? I assume it's of the usual Class1 standard

[desi_boy]

hey ! Daac

u mind sharing the number u r using to contact CX hr ?:ok:

[flyber]

For those who did stage 1 in south africa and also in hong kong early december,any feedback so far?

[blade]

Nein,

Thats exactly my point...lucky i bought 12 years ago,then 8 years ago during Sars, then again in the 2008 meltdown...

Luckily I had a proper housing allowance or I would have been screwed...for life

[Cessna414CC]

Did you get the impression that this change applies to applicants who already applied, or just brand-new applicants? Thanks

[captain.weird]

Did you get the impression that this change applies to applicants who already applied, or just brand-new applicants? Thanks

daac said this:
So I spoke with CX flight crew recluitment today and they said; starting this month all non Hong Kong residents applying for the cadet program with zero flight time will now need to have at least 250 hours TT and CPL

It is starting this month. So I think that if you are a zero hour applicant and you applied before 1 januari you will be considered. Maybe daac can confirm this.

BTW, there is nothing new at the website??

[daac]

Yes I think it applies to everybody . In my case I submitted my application last year, I have around 200 Hrs. TT and private license. So the lady from the flight crew recruitment (Rachel) told me that management has decided to change minimums for non HK applicants. And once I have 250 Hrs. and CPL i can call back to update the my application and be eligible for the Cadet program.

For all HK residents still the same thing, no flight experience required.

robair08 and desi_boy

This is the number 852 2747 8261. After the 5th try the call finally went through. I guess is difficult to call HK from the USA. Anyways if you guys get any valuable information please let us know.

Thanks

[whackthemole]

all non Hong Kong residents applying for the cadet program with zero flight time will now need to have at least 250 hours TT and CPL

The HK government won't issue work permits to anyone with less than that. Recruitment already got burnt once by that and won't make that mistake again. 250h of sightseeing in a C152 and a complete lack of self-respect makes you skilled labor apparently.

[desi_boy]

jus got an email from the recruitment staff ,

"Please refer to the information on our official website."

But the the website dosnt show any change .


Keep your fingers crossed . I hope it remains Zero Hours .:mad:

[concord84]

Anyone who passed stage one in London and got selected for stage 2 in HKG could contact me so we can share a few infos regarding stage2?
All the best for everyone.
C84

[schweizer2]

just got my rejection e-mail from 30th december stage 1 :ugh:

[FL999]

So basically just add a loan to the already crappy deal. Great.:ugh:

[schweizer2]

anyone know what the record interviews failed prior to being accepted on the course?

although I've failed a few times im no where near ready to accept defeat!

got to love and hate aviation!

[flyber]

Also got my stage 2 invite today.I did my stage 1 in South Africa early Dec.Anybody else from jo'burg who got a nod for stage 2?

[Vpilot53]

Hey guys just wanted to get some information on the maths test if anyone has done it. A few of my Friends that are now on the TT program had a maths test of 30min. I am being interview for stage 2 Advanced Course and my program indicates a 60min maths test has anyone done the 60min maths test is it a longer test of have they just given you longer to do it

Thanks for your help in advance

[Vpilot53]

Hey guys just wanted to get some information on the maths test if anyone has done it. A few of my Friends that are now on the TT program had a maths test of 30min. I am being interview for stage 2 Advanced Course and my program indicates a 60min maths test has anyone done the 60min maths test is it a longer test of have they just given you longer to do it

Thanks for your help in advance

[rodrigues]

Submitted my application 2 months ago. I have a CPL with 223 hours TT, would that literally leave me 27 hours short and therefor ineligible?

[Em773ER]

Hi everyone,

I have just been offered the 30 week course in adelaide. I applied early 2010 and been doing stage 1,2,3 and 4 the past few months but kept quite about it. Since i applied (i had only started my PPL navs), but now I have a CPL MECIR and 3 subjects short of a fATPL. At the start when I applied I was very keen on the cpp, but over time i grew agaisnt it as i saw the bigger picture; however now that i have been offered, its actually not as easy to say no. I originally went for the interviews for "interview experience" and to prove to myself i could get into CX. Well i made it but i'm stuck between what i've learnt over the past couple of years or what i was told by recruitment, plus i have a few mates who are SOs from the cpp and they are "living comfortably". I haven't accepted yet but thinking about it, i am only 21 and by 30 i could maybe have hope to fly back home in australia. Thoughts anyone?

Thanks in advance!

[blade]

773,,,what are your other options

[Em773ER]

hi there, i am currently in the middle of an interview process for a turbo prob job. considering that as a more practical choice...

[emaler.x]

Hi everyone,
I've become very interested in the CX cadet program although I am starting from the very beginning, i.e. no flying experience etc.
Before diving into research and studying I wanted find out more research about the requirements, such as the education requirements and what the chances of a beginner of my age would be to be taken seriously. I've read on the CX website and searched more online however it generally just lists it in terms of HK schooling.

If anyone has any more information they could provide me with I'd greatly appreciate it, thanks!

[sidhu86]

Hi everyone,

I have just been offered the 30 week course in adelaide. I applied early 2010 and been doing stage 1,2,3 and 4 the past few months but kept quite about it. Since i applied (i had only started my PPL navs), but now I have a CPL MECIR and 3 subjects short of a fATPL. At the start when I applied I was very keen on the cpp, but over time i grew agaisnt it as i saw the bigger picture; however now that i have been offered, its actually not as easy to say no. I originally went for the interviews for "interview experience" and to prove to myself i could get into CX. Well i made it but i'm stuck between what i've learnt over the past couple of years or what i was told by recruitment, plus i have a few mates who are SOs from the cpp and they are "living comfortably". I haven't accepted yet but thinking about it, i am only 21 and by 30 i could maybe have hope to fly back home in australia. Thoughts anyone?

Thanks in advance!

EM773 --

The way I look at it dude - you're 21, young, ambitious and can jump any hurdle at this age. If you're given the opportunity to explore the world in wide body aircraft at such a young age. DO IT. Yes, it will be tough, yes its gonna be a hard struggle with money. But you can do it. And at the end of the day its going to be worth it. From the looks of the previous threads, looks about 5-6 years upgrade to JFO? 25-27 is an awesome age, I'm 25, if I had that opportunity when I was 21, I would have been all over it. Now I'm looking for regionals. Think hard about it, if you're going in to it with open eyes, and an open outlook - I guarantee you will LOVE it.

Best of luck to you man! Keep us posted!

[ChinaBeached]

Sidhu..... And there's your flawed logic. In your eyes it's all about "seeing the world in a shiny (widebody) jet". What of future financial job security? What of a future wife & family? What of the capacity to buy & own a property? What of placing a potential 44 year career with a company that tears up legally binding contracts at will?

EM773 is one of the VERY few who has actually shown maturity to see both sides of the arguement. Empty & wishful thinking like you're offering is at best a romanticised view of being a "Jet Pilot Dude" and misleading if not so very way off the mark of the real nature of the iCadet job & the real nature of the company enslaving you for well over just the 6 year bonded period.

Oh, and from the latest AOA update, KA are offering double the CX iCadet housing for their cadets. 100% owned by CX. Discrimination?? And your "free" training is deemed as an asset hence taxable as well as CX enforcing repayment upon failure of the course if that unfortunately happens. Lovely this great "opportunity" isn't it!!??

Best have your opinions from the real world if you wish to offer credible & accurate advice.

[Harbour Dweller]

CX enforcing repayment upon failure of the course if that unfortunately happens.

Yes, that's a new one. A nice little surprise for the unfortunate.

A serious case of beware the fine print.

[Jamesandpie]

Can anyone else confirm that they have upped the minimum number of hours to 250 hrs for international applicants to the cadet scheme? I'm sure there are several people who have applied in the second half of 2011 with less than 250hrs and are still waiting to hear back for stage 1.

Surely they can't change the 0 hours to 250 hours overnight and make it apply to everyone who has applied previously? After all, you still get trialled for murder on the laws of 20 years ago if that's when it was committed!

I've tried giving HR a call but can't seem to contact anyone, so if anyone has some confirmation that would be great.

[SloppyJoe]

They have offered people jobs before after they passed all the stages, medical, sim etc only to be kept waiting for over a year before being told you can still join on less than half the package we were offering before.

They have hired guys on the old expat package on the condition they instruct in Australia on the cadet courses for 3 (I think) years maybe longer before joining as an SO with full housing etc. Contracts were signed and it was a done deal. A year or so afterward they were told sorry but we lied and you are now on the cadet contract when you come to HKG.

You really think CX will honor a lesser requirement to those who have applied but not even had an interview?

Sorry but if this rumor is true it will apply to you.

[whackthemole]

Surely they can't change the 0 hours to 250 hours overnight and make it apply to everyone who has applied previously?

Sonny, you really have no idea who you're dealing with here. It's as close as you'll ever get to making a deal with the devil.

[SMOC]

Forget using your forgiveable loan to purchase property, the HK mortgage corporation has just deemed the 'loan' as a liability so forget trying to get a home loan from a bank.

CX makes the rules up as they go along and will change them when and where they see fit. Occasionally the law in a foreign country catches them out but HK never will.

[Harbour Dweller]

Surely they can't change the 0 hours to 250 hours overnight and make it apply to everyone who has applied previously?

Apparently the Hong Kong Immigration Department has had a little say in the matter.

[crewsunite]

Just a few things..

Being employed as "skilled" labour IE >250hrs by law you are entitled to a full Expat allowance (Which they are currently not paying due a new discrimination law Expats vs Locals which would work if you were employed with 0 hrs)

1) Now that you are classed as "skilled labour" that is not found in HK ie >250hrs there is no discrimination and are be entitled to full expat allowances!! and is not effected by this law as I understand.
So here starts a major stumbling point going fwd.

2) The repayment of failed training is seems but also illegal in HK courts.(As I understand) No Training bonds are allowed in HK. But hey are you going to win a court battle with CX? No!

3) Forgivable loan - Being a Loan, and for the FULL PERIOD it is still classed as a loan the HK banks will not allow you to get a Mortgage until the "forgivable loan" is complete i.e. the full term has run it course. Thus you cannot buy property here for 6 years? (Not sure the term of the commitment is?)

4) Forgivable loan - Is fully taxed from the start after 12months. So beware!

5) Experience - S/O time is making beds etc, no real joy in flying and ****ty rest..which counts nothing if you plan on leaving. You'll need 5/6 years to upgrade to JFO. Followed by at least 3 yrs of experience before being able to move on. Total 8-10yrs commitment

Thus Make Sure you are < 22yrs and single willing to flat share for all that time.

Guys with CPL with enough hours would be better to suited to work in GA etc..

>25yrs and Married & not planning to be single with partners not working in HK- Forget it!!

Anyway ask the HKAOA for advice, they will hopefully tell you more truths than the company. After all it is now known they are neg hiring DEFO again soon I heard. If these are done in big numbers expect time to JFO to be 6yrs.. Have you got protection in your contract? It does not matter anyway as you will lose the case aka SW case where he lost S/O BPP appeal. So CX will talk to you like many of you talk to a blue eyed blonde on a first date!

But then you have time on your side as you are young so go for if <22yrs.
> 22yrs with experience go to Qatar as S/O. Or work G/A its very rewarding life experience there will always be time for "less trilling" airline flying later on.

But i'm talking to a wall no doubt. :ugh:

Anyway I hope CX will do the right thing but many will agree, that is doubtful.

www.hkaoa.org/public/hkaoa/contact.jsp

Address : Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association
5th Floor Daily House
35-37 Haiphong Road
Tsim Sha Tsui, Kowloon
Hong Kong

Tel : +852 2736 0823
Fax : +852 2736 0903
E-mail : [email protected]

[illustrator]

Hi crewsunite,

I have found the book "49ers" in the university library and realized most of the cons that you and other IDs (e.g. Dan, China) mentioned are inconveniently true (given that Mr. John Warham put down the facts). It is the attitude and actions of Cathay's management level that makes me hesitate now (I am currently awaiting the third round interview).

As a local Chinese, unfortunately, I cannot achieve my dream of flying by other means, since there is actually no affordable general aviation programs in Hong Kong. Nor could I afford training or obtaining license abroad.

The question is, given the history and current situation, could you foresee any possibility of improvement of the relation between management and the pilot crew in Cathay? Or would the newly entered cadets suffer from the similar experience like the one between 1994-1998?

I appreciate the people in AOA who pay their efforts to ensure flight safety and defend service quality.

Thank you!

[crewsunite]

As a local you should go for it 100%! This program was designed for you in the 1st place. And we should have many more locals to balance out Expats.

But having "Expats" under locals terms are wrong!

There are thousands of Local HK's whom would love to work for CX and should. Cx need's to make up about 30% of there intake as local Cadets.

But some very experienced Expats with families etc. are moving onto other carriers due to terms here. This is wrong as this airline seriously needs those candidates which the fleet offices are crying out for.

I'm actually very surprised the local media have not picked up on this injustice.
CX are outsourcing jobs to foreigners under hidden pretenses.

etc...
Anway as a local with experience and years behind you, you could always move to HKA as hear some locals plan to once its proven to be up and running successfully.

Good luck..

(DEFO B744 may be on USA bases not HK)

How long does a base need to be open for? 1 day?
Or maybe change those procedures if things are desperate in terms of crewing. What can we do?
Call the AOA, well start by calling them now and asking what the have planned if this happens?

[GTC58]

Crewsunite

CX can't offer DEFO on bases before they offered these vacancies to us via a Basings bid. Only leftover vacancies after the Basings bid closes can be offered to new hires.

[captain.weird]

If the DEFO hirings will begin, do you guys think that the old salary package will come back or not? I don't think it will.. I think it will all change now..

[ChinaBeached]

Illustrator - well done on also having the common sense & maturity to research the job. Warham's book cemented my belief that my decision to turn down CX's offer was the correct one.

But still too many here wish to bank (yes, literally "BANK") a 30-40 year career based on pipe dreams, wishful thinking & hopes that CX are not as immoral, ruthless, greedy & as devious as their past 20 years has overwhelmingly PROVEN. Nothing in Warham's book could have been published in not 100% true for fear of litigation.

Why do you think CX use the "Tell us about a time when...." interview technique? Because all personality traits & studies prove that one's past behaviour is the greatest predictor of one's future behaviour. What does CX's past workplace relations tell you about them? C'mon people! Open your eyes & remove your head from the sand!!!!!

As for DEFO.... That'll be interesting. Imagine being 6000+ hr pilot with 1000's of hours jet time yet holding a seniority number behind a kid with either zero hours or a fresh CPL. He / she will reach command faster than you. Thats the seniority system which is the backbone of this profession - & rightly so. So by logic you may only be lucky enough to maybe, just maybe gain a Command in the final years of your career.

That kid who was your SO asking you about little things like V1 or high altitude swept wing ops & VMCA, who all but needs a change of underwear when a pretty FA enters the cockpit or even acknowledges him is now your Capt. How many are going to go for that with this bull$hit housing package???!!!!

If you've the runs on the board to go DEFO then at the very least I'd think most credible pilots would work for an airline where at the very least their employment rights are protected.

CX offer a DEFO what therefore??

[Em773ER]

Thanks for all the advice everyone gave me. Much to the disbelief of many around me, I turned the cx cpp down. I may only be 21 but instead of using that as the reason to go to CX, I see at as a reason to venture into GA and soon enough I can be owning my own hours in the right hand seat of narrow body jet within the next 2 years (or even 6 months if i'm lucky). There are plenty of other reasons to not join CX anyways, many if not all are mentioned here on these forums hopefully all of you have taken the time to read them. I hope nobody will be pissed off with my decision as I know a lot of you wannabes would do anything to have been in my position. Good luck to everyone in their careers :ok:

I will still stay on this forum and help out when I can, in the meantime, wannabes I highly recommend that you do listen to those superiors around you. They are not angry at you or trying to stop you from following your dreams, they are simply angry at what CX is doing and what this industry is becoming, and trying to help you open your eyes so you CAN follow your dreams, rather than live a nightmare.

Em773ER

[SMOC]

GTC58

Please don't ever start a sentence with "CX can't ......." everyone knows CX can and does whatever it wants.

EM773ER

Well done, good luck in the future, I really hope you get the chance to join CX as a DEFO on expat terms!!! Please keep your progress updated it'll be interesting to follow your career vs an iCadet's.

[Captain Picard]

Hello all,

Hong Kong PR living in Vancouver here.
Applied to the Cadet program mid 2011, and I just got the e-mail early yesterday morning to attend the stage 1 interview in Hong Kong next month. Anyone else get the call?

currently on the 27th page of this epic thread... it's going to be a long night!

[kitcanfly]

hello, nice to meet u
u had waited for stage 1 interview for 6 months after application? such a long period...
i have sumbitted my application 1 months ago,
how's your preparation?

[Captain Picard]

Yes I kind of forgot that I applied and gave up already...

As I do have some very basic aviation knowledge, the booklet that they sent me this morning looks like it would mostly be review for myself. Maybe another read of the From the Ground Up and I'll be set for the general aviation knowledge section. As for some of the historical stuff, I'll just have to look further into the company history and get to know my potential employer.

[ChinaBeached]

I'll just have to look further into into the company history and get to know my potential employer
And if you are serious about that comment do the following:

Step 1) read John Warham's book "The 49ers- The True Story".
Step 2) read the terms and conditions of this C Scale offer whereby CX management use the despicable term "discrimination" as a means to lower pilots' remuneration as well as a tool to divide and conquer.
Step 3) read through the 2 x forums under Fragrant Harbour and read all the threads commenting on the iCadet package.

There's your history lesson.

What does a pilot get for some out of uniform private pictures stolen from his computer and posted on the internet? Fired.

What does management get for committing purgery in court, for knowingly and deliberately lying to its staff, for getting caught not once but twice for illegal price fixing costing MILLIONS, for completely screwing up fuel hedging again at a cost of MILLIONS, for completely screwing up pilots' basings, and so on, and so on.....??? Massive bonuses.

[kelevra]

M Taylor

Still haven't read the changes on here. Mind if you can direct me to the posts that talk about these changes? (I'm still on page 130, so if it's recent I'll get up to it soon).

Also, you have to remember, like what crewsunite said, that this programme was designed for locals (Hong Kong), where flying opportunities is very low and very expensive. I can barely afford the PPL course at the Hong Kong Aviation Club.

Btw, they hardly update their careers website. It's been a year and a bit (or maybe even two) and the only change I've noticed was the application page saying "ONLY recruiting Second Officers." At the time I was applying, it seemed that FOs were able to apply.

kitcanfly

Six months to a year is normal waiting time. Just keep that in mind and study everyday, you'll be almost prepared by the time you get an invite.

ChinaBeached


Been meaning to buy and read that book. Hopefully I can find it in the local book shops.

[flyber]

Anybody here doing stage 2/3 on 16/17 feb in hong kong can get in touch via pm.

[Captain Picard]

Chinabeached

thanks for all your facts
I'll pass your recommendations since I have already read your novel throughout the 150+ posts in this thread.

I want to know more about your background, what exactly did they do to you that prompted you to dig so deep into their corporate "policies" and educate the world about them? were you one of the 49?

[flyber]

Would somebody please post an update of cx fleet by splitting it to individual variants and a/c numbers.Also, if possiple,current orders.Thanks

[Pitot Probe]

Hi All

Although I follow this thread, I normally try to stay out of it, and if I do comment, to at least try to stay positive about the iCadet program.

However, recent findings are slightly alarming and I feel it needs to be mentioned clearly.

1. From the latest HKAOA (Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association) newsletter:

It seems also that CEPs in training in Adelaide are required to sign a new contract requiring them to pay for their training should they fail to meet Cathay‟s standards for employment.

This is not yet confirmed, but clearly enough evidence exist for the AOA to put it in their newsletter.

I find this action by the company deplorable and future candidates will have to think really hard if the risk of paying HKD1.1M for failed training is worth it.

2. Also from the AOA newsletter comes news of the first iCadet trying to buy property in Hong Kong using the forgiveable loan received after training.

His attempt failed when he could not get a homeloan approved from the HKMC (Hong Kong Mortgage Corp). The reason was that they saw the forgiveable loan as a liability and not a deposit.

Although there are ways to buy property without using the HKMC, it will be very difficult as you will have to put down a 30% to 50% (depending on the property price) deposit. If you look at property prices in HKG you'll see that this would be a substabtial amount of money.

Personally I feel that it is very important to own property as part of one's financial portfolio and also as a retirement asset. With this new problem it will be almost impossible for new joiners to buy unless you come to HKG with a big lump sum of cash.

3. Rumours abound about the Hong Kong Immigration Department not granting Work Permits to non-Hong Kong Residents with less than 250 hours.

This problem was discovered early last year, but was apparently solved by CX during talks with the Immigration Department.

I am not sure whether the rumours are resurfacing or if the problem was in fact not solved.

I stuck my head into the recruitment office yesterday and asked the question very specifically. The answer was that the current requirements as per the website is still accurate but that there are "possible problems" with the Immigration Department.
I could not get hold of Rachel, but will see if I can contact her next week to get a better answer.

If this rumour is true, we will in any case get confirmation from guys that is busy with their training in Adelaide.



So, all in all the new terms offered by CX seems to be getting worse while a lot of people were hoping that in the face of a apparent pilot shortage it would get better.

I am not saying don't join CX, but the above issues needs to be factored into every potential applicant's decisions.

Regards and as always, PM me anytime if you need more info.
PP

[illustrator]

flyber:

I cant help saying that you are too lazy: Cathay Pacific - About Us : CX Background (http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/aboutus/cxbackground/factsheet)

[CharlieTangoZulu]

thanks for sharing this info, even though they are just rumors. as a wannabe icadet i am, applied quite recently, i'm thinking about that 1.1M payback to the company in case of failure. all right, as a passionate and willing to give the best everytime, that is quite scary anyway!! :ugh:

does anybody who's about to start training at the FTA have any news regarding this rumor?

[Captain Picard]

Thanks for posting the information in such an objective manner.
But holy cow 1.1M HKD?

I can get the same training here for less than 50,000CAD....

[ChinaBeached]

Picard.....
your novel throughout the 150+ posts in this thread.
and yet within the next 2 or 3 pages someone will ask the same mundane and ignorant questions. "What engines to CX have on their aircraft" (because I'm too "passionate" to bother to find facts elsewhere)...."I can't update my profile...".....and so on.

I want to know more about your background, what exactly did they do to you that prompted you to dig so deep into their corporate "policies" and educate the world about them? were you one of the 49?

In all honesty if you'd read my previous posts here and the other threads then you'd know exactly my background, as well as my angst against CX which I make no apologies for. But the main point you ask is why did I dig so deep into CX's corporate policies. As for educating the world about them, well when so many here bring to the table their "passion" yet utter ignorance to the real world let alone facts of the job I wish to pass on some truths. Where I've been incorrect I've always been happy for the input. Would you allow a colleague to fly an aircraft knowing full well a serious CAT A MEL item affecting the safe & correct operation of the flight existed & you know full well they are too lazy and incompetent to check the flight deck log before the flight? It's not only about the pilot(s) but the operation they are in and contribute toward. The more people who know the truths and facts about CX and this scam then the better.

So, why dig so deep? Because if you don't then I believe you to be an idiot. Sorry, but I mean that. So many kids want to throw up to 45 years of their life starting from this iCadet program failing to comprehend the exact nature, terms, conditions, city, costs, long term future and management history of the job...... And then I use that word "comprehend" because all too often we're met with those not wanting the information or denying bare faced facts and realities. And, as with all jobs I've ever had I can't stand pilots who would sell their soul for the job, get it, and then once checked to line join the brigade of hating the job they asked for, studied for and then received. Any person blindly signing any contract without knowing the full and complete facts of what it means, what it does and does not encompass as well as the company behind is just that - a fool. And what's the saying? "A fool and his money are easily parted"????

Based on this thread most iCadet desperadoes do more research and take more consideration into their next xBox console than they do about this CEP and what it represents to CX and the industry as a whole.

[CharlieTangoZulu]

passion won't pay a $1.1 million dollar bill

yes i know that's where the problem lies.. let's see how and if this rumor develops..

[truss20]

@ChinaBeached I know an ex CHIEF pilot of Cathay and have talked to him about pay, conditions etc. He said that living in HK and flying with Cathay was the best experience of his life, and it was hard to leave (he left due to personal reasons).
If you think the conditions in HK are bad, then try living in Australia! Everything is so much more expensive in Aus than anywhere else in the world, yet people live in good conditions on far worse pay than is quoted by CX.

[average-punter]

For him as a Chief pilot he would have been at CX for a while, therefore he would most likely have been on the old A-scale contract with a housing allowance + other benefits... for you you would be on the "c-scale" which is a whole different game...

CB: Sorry if this has been bought up before: Do you mind me asking what you do now after you rejected the new contract? Judging by what you post you are now in a far better position than if you took the new CX contract, the holiday home you were talking about a few pages back sounds rather nice! :}

[SloppyJoe]

What he said.

Ex chief pilot. He was on A scale for all of his career. His provident fund alone would be multi million AU$. He would have made multiple millions of AU$ during his time at CX. He probably has multiple luxury properties all over the world either empty as holiday homes or rented out providing a nice income for retirement.

You on the other hand, Truss20, will spend your WHOLE career paying off an 800sqft place in a not too fancy location in HKG, maybe you will be able to upgrade to a 1000-1500 sqft place by about age 45, extending the mortgage for another 10 or so years.

His Hong Kong and your Hong Kong, if you join CX, are different worlds. Why do people find this concept so hard to understand. The contract you guys will join on is NOT sufficient for an expat to have a descent life and family in HKG. :ugh:

[Cessna414CC]

An Ex Chief Pilot was mentioned....I wonder if anyone knows if having an 'official' recommendation from a CX pilot on one's application makes any difference given the large number of applicants? I understand during the DEFO days, having a recommendation was huge to getting on top of the list, but is is the same with the cadet programme?

[Cpt. Underpants]

Then: A scale
Now: C scale

Then: Defined benefit Provident Fund
Now: (Percentage) defined contribution MPF

Then: A DFO who knew who you were and protected you from the clerks
Now: Who?

Then: Recruitment department staffed by CX
Now: Contracted company in CX City

Then: Valuable recommendation by current CX pilot
Now: Who are you and who do you work for?

Then: Medium or heavy jet command, combat fighter experience, minimum 5000 hours
Now: Thank G*D we have another applicant who can recognize an aircraft.

Then: Retire at 55 comfortable
Now: Age 65 or work till you die, choose one

Then: 76 hours per month, significant overtime pay
Now: 84 hours, work stacking

Then: 6 weeks pay plus 1 week non credit leave
Now: 2 weeks for first 4 years, then 6 weeks allocated, often denied, deferred

Then: First class FOC, unlimited FOC travel, affordable
Now: Cattle class at rates exceeding bucket shop prices, ZED fares, Bob N

Then: Simulator sandwiches, real coffee, First Class crew meals
Now: Wait till we've finished and chicken, beef, pasta and sorry no sandwiches.

Then: Voluntarily come to work early in case of Typhoon signal
Now: Mandated practices in case of T3

Then: Call us when you're healthy
Now: Sickness management (sic) program

Then: Lamma Channel Visual
Now: Pussies

Then: IGS 13
Now: You want me to do a WHAT?

And on, and on, and on. Please guys - don't be shy.

One more time: THIS ISN'T THE CATHAY YOU THINK IT IS.

[ChinaBeached]

Truss.... As per the other replies to your post - you are failing to consider the bigger picture of the CX then and the CX now. What's more, why is it no so obvious??!!

I bet the ex CP loved his time at CX. Why wouldn't he??
He was not on C-Scale.
He came to CX with experience.
He was paid as per the market rate for (expat) widebody airline pilots, and as per his role.
He received a housing allowance in line with the what he deserved.
He was able to save, look after a family (I assume) and educate his kids, retire comfortably.
On top of all that, he was the boss.

We could go on but Capt Undies put it so much better.

Now, which part of his career (anywhere!!) applies to the 2012 iCadet offering????

Ask him if he "enjoyed" the 49ers episode? Ask him if he "enjoyed" seeing his pay cut numerous times while those cutting it received bonuses? Ask him if he "enjoyed" the phone calls, letters and threats of "sign or be fired / never to be promoted"? Ask him if what he thinks of his bosses lying in court? Ask him if he "enjoyed" the instructors at AD having their signed contracts torn up?

Odd when a bigger picture is unveiled.....?????

[crwjerk]

Ask him if he "enjoyed" the 49ers episode? Ask him if he "enjoyed" seeing his pay cut numerous times while those cutting it received bonuses? Ask him if he "enjoyed" the phone calls, letters and threats of "sign or be fired / never to be promoted"? Ask him if what he thinks of his bosses lying in court? Ask him if he "enjoyed" the instructors at AD having their signed contracts torn up?If he was an Ex Chief Pilot, just maybe, he was immune to all the above, as he;
-would have been one of the * chamber,
-not had to sign or be fired,
-been one of them lying in court
-maybe got a command in 2 years
-received lots of bonuses
-started the 49ers episode.

Maybe.............

[truss20]

@ChinaBeached
I will ask him.
I have other info from him about pay, conditions etc. that DO apply to all.
You can be promoted from SO in 18 months.
The max time as SO is 4 years, of which your pay goes up by 50K annually, which starts at 422k a year. A lot compared to what most people in their early 20s earn.
You will be captain by the 12th year of employment, earning a minimum 1.2m annually.
You will be senior captain by the 14th year of employment. Payment increases until you earn 1.8m after 15 years.
You earn superannuation of 15.5%.
Education support for children in HK.
Medical insurance.
Share in company profits.
etc.

Plus, the money you earn from CX isn't your only source of revenue. Share dividends can earn tens of thousands of dollars a year if you invest correctly.

Don't be intimidated by what these clowns are going on about. I have talked with people who are on the board of CX! They resort to outrageous claims that "oh CX lie to us" etc. That's not a legitimate point in an argument.

I am going to apply for that Cadetship, and I hope like hell that I get it as it is a great opportunity that I don't want to slip by, and neither should anyone of you reading this post.

[truss20]

@ChinaBeached and all you Cathay cynics,

The maximum time you can spend as an SO is 4 years, of which your pay increases by 50k annually, starting at 422k.
The minimum time you can spend as an SO is 18 months.
The maximum time it can take to become a captain at Cathay is 12 years.
2 years later, you become a senior captain.
Your pay increases from 1.2m when you start as captain to 1.8m 15 years later.

You also get:
15.5% Superannuation contribution.
Medical insurance.
Education allowances for children studying in HK.
A share in company profits etc.

422k is a lot of money, especially for a person who will be in their early 20's, and it only increases from there.

This information comes from the chief pilot, who had a seat on the board.

In all honesty, you can be cynical of the program all you want. But in the end, those that do the program are going to benefit so much from it as it is FREE training (as opposed to spending 100k on training individually), you get to live in an awesome city and fly for one of the worlds most respected airlines.

I know which side I will be taking.

[SloppyJoe]

I am not saying that for a young guy with no family this is not something you should go for. It depends on your circumstances as to weather or not it is suitable.

Now back to your remarks.

We are NOT cathay cynics. A lot of us are currently employed pilots with CX.

18 months as an SO, 7 years ago maybe for a month before it went out again. In my opinion and many others CURRENTLY working for CX it will not be lower than 4 years till JFO again.

12 Years max till captain!!! Where are you getting this from. Suggest you check out the following thread.

http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/473028-f-o-life.html

Probably everyone posting is a CURRENT CX pilot in above thread. Is it mentioned anywhere that 12 years is the max that is expected.

You honestly sound like you are trying to wind people up. I hope so as to be that ill informed, about what will be at a minimum the next 10 years of your life till you can move on with transferable experience, is pretty amazing.

If you are for real I am amazed at your ignorance. By all means go for the scheme if it is suitable to you, it is a good deal for a new 0 time guy. But for gods sake know what you are getting into and not just listen to one ex pilot from the era when everyone wanted to be a pilot with CX.

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[ChinaBeached]

Truss, this job is for you. It suits a naive and ignorant company stooge so you fit the bill.

Better still, best you remind them in the interview what your best mate the former CP told you to say. The irony here is that this ex CP whose picture I'm sure keep on your bedroom ceiling and another beside the kleenex told you the company has never lied.....? Too funny because he just lied to you!

18 months as SO and then you start swimming in money you say.....???:D What an idiot. Usually I do my best to tell others not to apply by use of cold undeniable facts, but the likes of you are suited to it all too well to bother.

You may be at FL410 but all the piloting world will still look down on you.

[flyhardmo]

Truss20 you sound like our esteemed DFO. Could it possibly be RH in disguise???
:eek:

[Captain Picard]

After reading all these comments - I think the cadet program is still the way to go for myself (that is... if I get it)

- I mean, my family is in Hong Kong to begin with...
- I have 0 actual flight time other than the 15 or so fam hours I've had through Air Cadets.

- Planning to move my sorry ass back to HK anyways... since living alone in Vancouver even with my above average wage right now is next to impossible.

- Canadian Airlines: oh don't even get me started
- The military route: glasses = immediate nono, unless your glasses are only needed for reading. Oh and how many fixed wing aircraft does the RCAF have? yeah...

- The only thing that really worries me right now is that 1.1million HKD training bond...

[3rd Floor]

truss20...
If you think the conditions in HK are bad, then try living in Australia! Everything is so much more expensive in Aus than anywhere else in the world, yet people live in good conditions on far worse pay than is quoted by CX

What a stupid uneducated statement!!! :yuk:

truss20 is management trying to turn this whole crappy package offering into a positive!! It is a complete windup!! :zzz:

You are a fool truss20. Pull your head in!! :=

[AQIS Boigu]

...please stop the bull****...

This information comes from the chief pilot, who had a seat on the board.

Totally wrong...or did he tell you that as well???

[crwjerk]

I'm getting a Hernia just thinking about his name..............

[Captain Dart]

Truss, company stooges and starry-eyed kids with SJS, as a twenty-plus year, current Cathay Pacific pilot, I can only urge you to engrave Capt. Underpants' post #3736 in your collective memories.

Given the current rate of expansion, the maximum possible training rate, future slot availability at Hong Kong etc, the time to command given to you by your high-powered friend is at best an incorrect assumption by an out-of-touch retiree, or at worst, an outright lie.

[truss20]

In all honesty, I'd rather gain information from people I know personally than others hiding behind a computer screen.

Seriously, this guy was joined Cathay and within 10 years (he started at 25) was chief pilot. He took advantage of the resources available at CX and as such was rewarded.

Some posters here, on the other hand, may have been flying for 20+ years, yet all they do is complain about conditions at CX. An airline isn't going to reward pilots who aren't happy and negative about the company.

Simple maths.

He gave me the advice that if you approach work, or more importantly life, in a positive manner, then Karma will reward you.

All you ever do is complain about money. Money isn't everything. If it is, then get another job, as you obviously have the wrong priorities.

[truss20]

So he joined in a time of rapid expansion. Lucky.
He became a manager. I've never understood (or trusted) pilots who aspire to a desk job.
Why? Because they are more intelligent than you? Because they are more respected than you? Because you know that you couldn't get a position like that, even if you tried?

no he wan't 'rewarded', he was paid a good salary with good benfefits for doing his job, flying 400 fare paying passengers safely to their destination.
Is it too much to ask that professional pilots nowadays be well compensated for their skills, as your friend was in the past? Or are you happy to see the T&C's and benefits of your future career continously erode?

He was rewarded for being loyal to CX and showing EQ. Clearly you don't have this skill.

you're right, I'm still waiting for my 'reward'.
Why would you be rewarded? You always complain about CX. You moan about people getting better career opportunities than you.

Wonderful, an ex-CX Chief Pilot, who is also a life skills guru.

Called EQ. It's needed to be successful.

Very easy to talk about how great 'karma' is when he probably retired with millions in a provident fund, and millions in property from a real housing allowance benefit. Both of which the i-kids will never see.

1.2M that increases annually, from the 12th year of employment onwards.

Seems like a lot of money to me.

You obviously don't have a family to feed and shelter and send to school, and plan for their future. When you do you can re-read your above post and realize how inmature you are.

But, you are right, money isn't everything, then again, neither is getting a crappy, dead-end, SO job at CX. (Nor matter how much an ex A scale, Chief Pilot likes to talk it up)

Someone has to be an SO. You get promoted after a maximum 4 years as an SO to JFO, then become captain 8 years later.

If the money you earn from CX is your sole income, then you must be crazy. Share dividends etc can earn tens of thousands per year.

Plus CX give you a housing allowance, depending on your rank at CX. Something like 18k a month when captain.

[3rd Floor]

truss20... we all know you are management or god forbid... part of recruitment. Give it up!!! :=

[ChinaBeached]

I on the other hand am loving this!

What a W^NKER! Either way, if he's a company boy it reeks of desperation. If he's honestly an iCadet hopeful then even better! CX attract immature brat know-it-alls like this nowadays. Karma he says??!! Well, CX the big wheel is turning and here is your karma!! Either a) this is the depths your staff will go to, or b) the style of applicant you attract. Karma!!!

It's so easy to make millions from these illustrious share portfolios after all! Who would've thought? Easy money! Who ever loses on the stock market, especially in this day and age?? It's so easy - sort of like flying an aircraft on Xbox or watching a youtube video. This guy's got his whole career nailed!

Kid, no one is bitter or complains about the job they asked for, signed for and agreed to. (In my case interviewed for and was offered). What they are angry at is that what they signed and was offered is not respected or lived up to by the other party. In fact, they search vehemently for ways to get around them. They lie, cheat and deceive. All facts published and proven. You haven't a clue, so again this is the funny thing about you. You're just an immature, clueless idiot.

In the mean time fella, best prepare for your interview. I'd like to say get stretched, lubed and bent over but methinks you're already well seasoned.

[truss20]

Good. I hope you do turn people off the cadetship...more chance of myself getting in.

So ChinaBeached, you say that there a "published and proven facts" that state Cathay lie and cheat. Show me that information, but please don't link me to a post from another jealous hater as that is not evidence.

[ChinaBeached]

That again just demonstrates your complete ignorance. You have done no background research but from this out of touch idol of yours. More chance for you? You don't need it! You have friends in high places to recommend you don't you... And a financial plan about to make you millions. It's all so EASY!!!

The book is called "The 49ers - The True Story" by Captain John Warham.

That book has been mentioned countless times on this, and other forums / threads. Nothing it that book could have been published for fear of litigation.

Read it. And while you're at it - grow up.

[Captain Picard]

internet forum war :ugh: of all places it's on this forum.

[sidhu86]

ChinaBeached is hitting hard on everyones posts! lol i wasnt trying to give sound advice to follow, just my opinion. It's a hard life I'm sure being an SO at CX, but if you're willing to put the effort, bite your tongue and live like a poor person! do it lol.

[ChinaBeached]

Sidhu, have an opinion by all means but back it up. Where do your opinions come from?

Experience?

Credentials?

Knowledge?

Or pipedreams, wishful thinking, stary-eyed ignorance & a head in the sand mentality.

You guys want 1+1 to = 11. People with little things like experience, credentials & knowledge are explaining the answer is 2. But you'll have the audacity, ignorance & self-absorbed ideal to argue based on your "opinion".

So as not to come down "hard" on your fantasies:- the world is flat, you can make gold from urine, the stock market is a bottomless pit of self-service cash, there was / is no gloabal financial crisis and fairies exist. That should satisfy your study prep as I'm sure I've already exceeded your aviation, airline & CX knowledge base.

Most pilots of today value the ideals & principles the pilots of tomorrow (you, Truss & co) are lining up to crap all over & call a good opportunity.

[letsgofishing]

I've been reading this forum for a while, and felt it time for myself to make a comment. First let me state that I do not fly for CX.

It seems to me that alot of people on here living in the past, hoping to hold onto some grasp of "good ole days". Terms and conditions are reducing across the board for pretty much everyone involved in aviation. Thats a fact. It sucks, however its true. No new pilots will ever fly for the 1980's CX, the 1990's Qantas or for the european legacy's of the same era. These companies don't exist

What I would ask to the main contributors on here is this, what else would you have these "wannabees" do? Stay in GA? Fly regional for crap money in the hope of one day getting on the ever increasing number of low cost carriers? In my opinion this program, especially for someone without the money to fund their own training, seems to be one of the better options available. I'm happy to be proven wrong.

I'm also wondering if the current A-scale pilots feel the same way about pilots signing B-sacle contracts back in the 90's? Honest question.

On a side note, I do agree that some of the hopeful applicants who have posted in the last fe pages might want to check their smugness at the door! Its not a good trait, especially in aviation. Having said that, some of the 'experienced' guys should probably do the same! If you dont like the company you work for.....leave! Simple. Getting angry at kids over the internet seems a little pathetic.

And before Chinabeached and other angry men start their ranting, yes my opinion IS based on a wealth of experience and knowledge.

[truss20]

@letsgofishing This is what I've been trying to say. These problems are not limited only to Cathay, but most large airlines worldwide. Virtually all the American airlines have had to enter some form of Bankrupcy and subsequently merge with one and other (Continental+United etc), so the problem with money is not something that only Cathay face.

Again, the prospect of free training in 61 weeks as opposed to paying 100kAUD (900kHKD) and having to get hours up over the period of 4-5 years by your own will power and motivation is very appealling to people who have 0 hours.

For myself, my other options are to try for a Jetstar or Virgin Aus. Cadetship, both of which want you to pay 40k upfront+a further 80k that comes out of your salary! QANTAS is out of the question due to their 're-branding.'

Add to that living in an awesome city like HK, with the option to move back to Aus after 5 years makes the program seem a very attractive proposal.

[letsgofishing]

Truss20 I understand what your are saying, however there are many things that you can take from the commenst on this site. For example, if you want to fly with Cathay, do not bank on moving back to Australia. The company is based in Hong Kong, the company will always be based in Hong Kong, expected to live there for your entire career if you intend on staying with them.

However if you are planning on using Cathay as a means to get a licence and then after your 6 years, leave, then i would suggest that maybe your priorities are not in the right place. Cathay is not a stepping stone airline!

just something to think about.

[goaround737]

I wish there was a 'like' button on Pprune.

[ChinaBeached]

Fishing....my "rant" is as valid as your "rant".

I disagree completely with your defeatist attitude that we should just blindly accept lower terms, conditions, training standards, applicant requirements, and safety. Just because it happens, does't make it right. If as you say you do have the credentials and experience - and I trust you do if you say - then to defend this is just incredibly wrong in any professional airman's eyes.

In aviation we seek to always find higher standards, and promote higher levels of safety. You claim to accept and almost welcome the lowering of them. I cannot for the life of me comprehend how an experienced pilot could say such a thing.

All the rights and standards you had and have were once fought for by another. And what ever happened to leaving the profession in a better place then when you entered it?

Please then by all means place your nearest and dearest on the next flight with the cheapest option at the helm.

It seems to me that alot of people on here living in the past, hoping to hold onto some grasp of "good ole days". Terms and conditions are reducing across the board for pretty much everyone involved in aviation. Thats a fact. It sucks, however its true. No new pilots will ever fly for the 1980's CX, the 1990's Qantas or for the european legacy's of the same era. These companies don't exist.
You're right. And why? Because the opinion you have offered allows it. Pilots are and always will be their own worst enemy. So why cower down to the lowest common denominator? Why not fight for the raising of the bar??!! Call it market rates, call it a sign of the times, call it anything else.... Terms and conditions ARE NOT lowering across the board. How did Slosar's terms and conditions get lowered? No - he just received a 70% pay increase as he seeks to make some 400 pilots redundant. And how has CX's DFO or GM, etc suffered? Have their terms and conditions lowered? Hell no. Their salaries have grown far in excess of the CPI while the pilots had to threaten CC just for a pay rise due for over a decade just in line with inflation! (From memory of an AOA update the DFO received over a 72% [????] pay increase over the same period the pilots had received nothing, and he fought to withhold any increase in pilot salaries) So, no. This is not an "across the board" issue at all, and far from it. It is greed. Shear greed. And it comes at the expense of standards and safety as the trade off. And the target is squarely aimed at those naive enough to go for it. Do you not ask yourself why so many experienced pilots do not apply to CX anymore? They know what they and the job are worth and refuse it.

CX recently reduced the SO FFS training by 50%. It was once 12 sims for DESO who came with ATPL's and 1000's of hours experience, but now 6 sims for a fresh CPL holder yet to fly a commercial aircraft. So please don't say there is no safety or training being compromised.

What I would ask to the main contributors on here is this, what else would you have these "wannabees" do? Stay in GA? Fly regional for crap money in the hope of one day getting on the ever increasing number of low cost carriers? In my opinion this program, especially for someone without the money to fund their own training, seems to be one of the better options available. I'm happy to be proven wrong.
Yes. They would build "experience" and "knowledge" and "credentials" before being let loose on potentially 400+ pax. After 6 years, where would they go? They have no recognisable hours outside of the CX / CAD umbrella. The P2X rating or therefore hours are not recognised. So, when they become JFO they start their ICAO "loggable" hours from where they last left their Dutchess or C152. So, add at least 4 years to that 6 before even hoping to be completive just for a light twin job back in Oz. Too bad if there is an unforeseen need to leave CX and HK... They are screwed. LONG TERM affects of living in HK on a housing allowance not factored to inflationary affects.... A house/apartment to save for and buy? A wife? A family? Education? Single income with wife pregnant? And so on.... These guys by and large have zero appreciation or care for these things. They just see "big shiny jet quick".

In GA or a RHS job on a turboprop or even RHS in a 737 / A320 at least builds credible and recognisable hours that they can use. They OWN those hours, as opposed to the shackles CX places on them.

And lastly, what of the pressure on the present day CX pilots contacts? If one group of hopefuls will do it for approx 60% less, hell, why not create another 49ers on a larger scale and sack even more and fill those spots with the cheapest option??!! (Exaggerated example, of course). Who cares of safety and standards when cheap is all that is sought after??

And then we have young not even wet behind the ears Truss here who has done so very little research about the job. He is pinning his financial security on making millions from the stock market and moving back to Oz after 5 years. He knows nothing of the real job and of course less than nothing about the basing fiasco presently going on at CX. And this is the future of the industry. What an insult.

So, does this CEP contribute to aviation in general or detract from it?

Fishing, I'm happy to have an educated discussion about this if you wish. We can agree to disagree but maybe best via PM's.

[letsgofishing]

By no stretch am i promoting the lowering of training standards or the lowering of terms and conditions within the aviation industry, i'm simply stating that its possibly not fair to blame these young kids for this very fact!

As far as doing less sims, I would possibly suggest that this is simply due to the sim training such cadets receive in adelaide.....once again happy to be corrected.

Also it might not be fair to group all Cadets in the same basket....is there not 2 other streams that cater to the more experienced? wouldn't this mean you guys would getting a fair bunch or experienced pilot?

Surely something needs to be done within the current collection of pilots, rather than simply asking the younger guys to give up an opportunity. you'd be hard pressed to find a pilot who would give up a job, so as not to upset someone or keep them happy.

Just my thoughts

[ChinaBeached]

....and therein lies the key:

A "ME FIRST & SCREW THE REST & THE REPERCUSSIONS" attitude.

No, the cadets do not receive 744, A330/340 or 777 sim time in AD. Their FFS training has been halved as cost saving exercise. So, after 6 sims your never-flown-a-commercial-aircraft-pilot-dude is now the soul occupant of the cockpit when the LHS driver is taking a leak.

Yes, they do offer different courses for differing levels of experience. But by and large (correct me if wrong) the overwhelming majority of applicants are ab initio. By and large pilots with experience value their experience and profession. Pilots with an ATP / ATPL accepting this CEP are very few and very far between. And do you not ask why??

This IS NOT an "opportunity". It is a grab for cash using the stary-eyed ignorance of kids who want to be pilots and do not know, or in the overwhelming case on this forum do not want to know the realities. It is precisely candy from a baby.

But yes, I do blame any "adult" (as these kids are meant to be treated as if > 18) putting forth the most idiotic remarks to justify this CEP, as the likes of Truss here has. I do blame pilots for screwing their own profession like this. And I do blame these "adults" who either know or refuse to acknowledge what they are creating by accepting it. Blame them for agreeing to this? Yes.

Like I've said a few times, one day these guys will be screwed over by either management, another pilot / colleague or both. They'll have the remarkable audacity to feel insulted when all along this is what they are doing right here and now - willingly.

So again, does this CEP contribute to higher standards in aviation or detract from them?

[captain.weird]

Guys, a question. What is the time that your application is going to expire? So you have to fill in a new application..?

Thanks.

CW

[3rd Floor]

truss20

Again, the prospect of free training in 61 weeks as opposed to paying 100kAUD (900kHKD) and having to get hours up over the period of 4-5 years by your own will power and motivation is very appealling to people who have 0 hours. Firstly, it is not free training. You will be bonded for 6 years, break it - then pay $$$. You will also be leaving with hardly any experience!
If you decide to leave as an S/O you will not have a command rating endorsement or a co-pilot rating endorsement on the aircraft you flew. If you leave as a JFO/FO you will only have the a hours you accumulated once in that position. A pretty small amount for 6 years of flying and no financial savings since the housing deal is now crap!! :ugh:

Secondly, if you have Zero hours... then sorry, you are no longer eligible as there is now a requirement to have a minimum of 250hrs. Surely you knew this though, since you are from recruitment ;)

[Cpt. Underpants]

I was in the bank a few days ago and overheard (I couldn't help it - I was in the cubicle adjacent) a new S/O BEGGING the bank for a loan.

Heart wrenching really. The bankers (two of them) were very politely explaining that he earned too little, had a massive tax liability and frankly, hadn't a hope at his salary level, despite him trying to boost it by adding subsistence and travel allowances(!)

For a loan, they added, he would have to come up with 33% of sale value plus stamp duties before they could even consider it, but that he was a long way off with barely $10K a month in savings.

He left rather dejected, a few bank brochures in hand, almost in tears.

This, newbies and wannabees, is the reality of this "new" Cathay.

What more can I say?

[ChinaBeached]

And this is mine / our point precisely.

It is the LONG TERM which is what these kids refuse to consider (and CX prey on). "But I have friends at CX as iCadets who are getting by OK...." Really? But are they saving and able to plan for a secure future? No. Many posts back I calculated approximately 22 years, give or take a few of course, before an iCadet starting from zero could afford to OWN outright a property in HK (valued at approx $5.5 million HKD). Their savings capacity against their salary, the lending requirements mixed with a diminishing net housing package, inflation..... No. And no sympathy for this guy in question. He made his bed and only now he's finding the fleas, bed bugs & lice that he was told were prevalent.

I would be assuming he would be watching every dollar, has been for some time and still is only able to "save" $10k HKD per month. And again I'll wager he hasn't factored in a potential family, kids, single income with pregnant wife, not to mention life's "what if's" that will happen if he is remotely surprised by the bank's response.

What astounds me even more that the iCadet in this example didn't take Truss' advice and make quick 'n easy millions from the stock market?

Then again, what would banks or lending institutions know.....

[sidhu86]

My opinions are just opinions, thats all. I was interested in the program but thoroughly reading through these posts and problems its something that I wouldnt do... but - there are kids out there that think this is their calling. all i am trying to say is, lets not destroy a kids dream - he wants CX do it. Who are we to make decisions for others. We can give good advice, and help point people in the right direction - as for me, I am sticking with trying to get hired with the regionals. I'll work my butt of here in the states get my experience, actually get to fly and move from there! Happy flying guys, chinabeached loveee you <3 lol relax brother

[ground to air]

Stage 2 interview, HK, first week of February! Any takers??

[truss20]

CX made a $14 BILLION profit in 2010. I wouldn't say CX have a problem with money. CX is NOT Continental/UA.
Record profits and yet our T&C's are deteriorating. To which you seem happy to perpetuate.
Companies all over the world make billions in profit and their employees seldom get rewarded from it. It's a part of life. Not fair, but it is.
At least the guy who builds up his own hours will HAVE hours. As an S/O your P2X hours count for nothing.
I know, but at least you are paid a hell of a lot more to fly for a commercial airline+already have experience in big jets. Not 'official,' but you have it.

Finally, what airlines are going to treat their pilots much better? Emirates work their pilots like dogs, QANTAS want to hire on cheaper wages (far cheaper than CX) etc so this is why the Cathay program looks so appealing.

[SloppyJoe]

:D Ah finally Truss, you reveal who you are.

A youngster who knows nothing about the airline industry other than the little bits of glorified CX information handed down from the ex chief pilot of the golden era?

Or perhaps judging from your last post.

Someone who has knowledge of the competitions terms and conditions even though you would not qualify for the job with them (EK). Someone who knows more about the industry recruitment than you are letting on. If you really are working for CX, this truly is pathetic.

[hardybro7]

I am currently preparing for the Stage 2 interview in early Feb. Anyone with HELPFUL information please PM me.

[schweizer2]

I am currently preparing for the Stage 2 interview in early Feb. Anyone with HELPFUL information please PM me.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Hey,

First of all best of luck with your Stage 2 interview.

Secondly I think rather then ask to be spoon fed the information by a private PM you should try the obvious thing... read the huge thread you have posted in... your answer is there!

I've recently posted my Stage 1 experience, well no use to you but others have posted their experience of Stage 2 and what to expect!

I find it quite saddening to have put in all the effort to study for ALL the stages for CX and to just fail on Stage 1 to then see someone ask for the information to be handed over without even demonstrating the effort you put into your Stage 2 preparations.
I have folderS of information about CX, HK and practice papers to study.

Sorry to have posted something that you may just find quite irrelevent... but there are many users in this forum who would be more then happy to help you and give you advice... Just show them that you are putting in the effort on your side. Dont just ask "stage 2 help", explain the research you have done and ask for clarification..

Once again, best of luck and I hope you succeed.

[captain.weird]

Does somebody knows here how long your application is 'valid'? So I have to fill in a new application or so..?

Appreciate it.

[truss20]

But I thought money wasn't everything?
Money isn't everything. But if you have 2 options, of which you acquire the same credentials, you're obviously going to go with the one that is of better value.

That's not contradicting, it's common sense.

BTW I know information about EK as I had a contact who flew for them for a couple of years as both a pilot for Emirates and the UAE private 777. He said the hours they made him work were too stressful (even though the pay was good) and as such he left for Turkish Airlines last year. Apparently they are a good airline as they are less stressful with hours and operate new aircraft.

[flyber]

Anyone with stage 2 mid feb?pm me

[tupps]

If you spent the time wasted arguing on here studying then I am sure your chances at passing will be greater, it's common sense.

Tupps

[ASH1111]

According to our recruiting schedule you will now be competing with Pakistanis!

I keep hearing from the kids that "this offer is the new reality/norm".

Here's a hint: You don't fish for pilots in Pakistan if you are offering "the norm".

Just keep signing up guys, don't listen to us with 10+years.:ugh:

[Pitot Probe]

I can now confirm that CX is not allowed to hire International Cadets with less than 250 hours any more.
This limitation has been re-imposed by the Hong Kong Immigration Department.

Applicants that has passed Stage 1 of the interview process or has been invited to Stage 1, will not be affected.

Regards
PP

P.S. Kung Hei Fat Choy!!

[Pittslover]

Hi guys,

first i have to say you can find a lot of good information between the arguments in this thread about the interview and i want to say thanks to the people who took the time to wrtie the reports and facts.

I understand that both sides have valid points to agree or disagree with the new CX SO terms and conditions. Still, for my personal situation CX remains a good option so i want to ask some questions regarding the application.

Currently i hold my FAA CPL/IR license and almost finished my JAA ATPLs. Can i apply before i finish my ATPLs and state the expected date of finishing my ATPLs and CPL/IR conversion in the application?

The other thing is my school education was done in Germany and my school education ist not comparable at all with the english or american system. How can i enter it? Just in the german form and translated?

Take care people!

[Cessna414CC]

Why would the gov't care how many hours one has when they go to Australia for training? Wouldn't it only matter how many hours they have when they finish and go to Hong Kong to work? I would think people with close to 150+ hours will be surpassed 250 that when finished. Seems odd they would change the minimum for eligibility into the programme itself.

[Pitot Probe]

Why would the gov't care how many hours one has when they go to Australia for training? Wouldn't it only matter how many hours they have when they finish and go to Hong Kong to work? I would think people with close to 150+ hours will be surpassed 250 that when finished. Seems odd they would change the minimum for eligibility into the programme itself.

The rule has to do with hiring "Skilled" or "Unskilled" labourers by a Hong Kong company.
The Hong Kong Immigration Department (IMMD) has a rule that states (in laymen's terms):

If a company wants to hire a "skilled" labourer, they must first search in Hong Kong, but if no such skilled worker can be found in Hong Kong, then they are allowed to hire from abroad.
If a company wants to hire an "unskilled" labourer, then they can ONLY hire a permanent Hong Kong resident (since they are going to have to train the person anyway).


Now recently the IMMD have stated that any pilot with less than 250 hours is "unskilled" and can therefore only be hired if he/she is a permanent Hong Kong resident.

This requirement is looked at when the person is hired by the company, i.e. BEFORE going to Adelaide.

So, in summary, the entry requirements has not been changed by CX, but by the Government of Hong Kong. (Actually, CX is still trying to get this rule changed back so that anyone can join, but it is unlikely that the IMMD will change their minds).

Hope this makes it clear.
Regards
PP

[m_panpan]

Could anyone explain for me the difference of O days and G days?
They are mentioned every now and then

[CharlieTangoZulu]

Now recently the IMMD have stated that any pilot with less than 250 hours is "unskilled" and can therefore only be hired if he/she is a permanent Hong Kong resident.

Sh!t... they've also slightly changed the CX website. now the 1st option for the S/O entry programme says "Preference for this programme will be given to HKID holders" ....

:mad::mad::mad:

all right...

[3rd Floor]

Sh!t... they've also slightly changed the CX website. now the 1st option for the S/O entry programme says "Preference for this programme will be given to HKID holders" ....

http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif

all right...

That is what it used to be and how it should stay!! :ok:

[CharlieTangoZulu]

well let's take it positively, i won't be one of the iKIDS! ahahah:}

[Bye Bye Baby]

Blessing in disguise for anyone to ignorant to have worked it out for themselves.

[iPilot88]

Hello everyone!!

Anyone in HK on the 2nd and 3rd of February for the SO Second Stage Interview??

I'd like to exchange informations about it. Inbox me please.

Good luck everyone for the CX assessments.

Michael

[nik246]

Hi All,

Anyone going for the stage 1 interview on the 7th of Feb?

PM me if you want to meet up

Nik

[newFE]

I received and invitation to the initial interview.
Any advise would be highly apreciated.

[SloppyJoe]

uhhhhh, mmmmmm, :confused::confused::confused:, hmph :confused::confused:, oh I got it, READ THIS :mad: THREAD.

If you then have a question that has not been answered I am sure people would be happy to answer it for you.

[schweizer2]

If i ever get another shot at having an interview with CX... im just going to refuse reading this thread and ask just questions instead.... seems like people who just get through are those who refuse to read this massive thread with all the information needed. :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

190 pages of free information and yet people refuse to put the effort in....

[hamills]

I have a current CPL ME/IR. Does anyone know if you need an MCC to apply for the SO position at Cathay?

[concord84]

Hi,
If anybody is flying out of London on the 14 get in touch.
All the best.

[Cleared for take-off]

hamills for advanced entry you don't need MCC

[eagledream]

has anyone been for stage 2 interview yet and has any advices for it?

[xu149]

is there anyone going for the stage 1 interview in KUL?

[highsoarer]

Hell everyone,

I'm wondering where do normally people who been called by the CX have their study materials?? do they normally just study on general term or they have a certain book that can help them to narrow down on the topics? I'm talking on the first stage of interview on AE program.

If anyone do know any source I hope you can share the knowledge with me!!
or maybe we can discuss here!

thanks!:)

[SloppyJoe]

Don't take this the wrong way but you should concentrate on English for your initial studying. You will need to be pretty fluent and although your English is far better than any other language I can speak I think it will let you down in an interview.

[Kristoff]

Hey guys I've got two questions

Firstly, does Cathay open applications the same time every year ?

Secondly, When is the closing date for applications ?

[themidge]

#1 They collect applications until they have enough people to interview in one area. I doubt there's a regular time in a regular place, especially overseas.

#2 I emailed them towards the end of last year and was told that recruitment was ongoing and so no closing date.

[Ghastal]

Guys, just a quick question for CPL drivers -
In the application where it states, "Do you hold a multi-engine instrument rating?", do we have to answer 'continuous' or 'valid till..', taking our instrument currencies into account?

[newFE]

Anyone has any info about it please?
thanks and good luck to everybody.

[schweizer2]

@newFE

The answer to your question is very simple.... read the last 190 pages of this thread and all will be revealed..... or you can just hope someone will be kind enough to help someone who is acting in a very lazy way....

[smurf84]

newFE - Here it goes, if this is what you're looking for.


Advanced Entry – a 32-week programme for applicants who possess an ICAO CPL and have in excess of 250 hours flight time in specified categories.

Training is conducted at Flight Training Adelaide, Adelaide, Australia. Training consists of technical ground school, HK ATPL subjects and flight training. All programmes introduce and/or consolidate jet aircraft operation, multi-crew operations, safety standards, efficient operation, passenger considerations and flight operation disciplines.

Successful completion of your Second Officer entry program at FTA in Adelaide will qualify you for selection as a Cathay Pacific Second Officer. Induction to Cathay occurs in Hong Kong where you will undergo a conversion course onto your new wide body aircraft. The Cathay conversion will consist of systems and procedures ground training, simulator training, and flight training taking between 3 to 5 months to become a fully qualified crew member.

To be considered for a flying career with us you must:

Have an excellent command of written and spoken English
Be physically fit and qualify for a Class I Medical
Meet flight deck reach requirements which is subject to a functional reach test
Have completed secondary school and have good passes in mathematics and science, or have a degree or diploma, or have passes in all ATPL subjects
Share our passion for aviation

[boxerpilot]

schweizer2 is correct.

All the guys who knows that this thread exists should be aware that the answers are all within. It is not that the info cannot be PM to you, but after you have gone through the pages, you will be able to make out a trend as well as know quite a bit about the culture, pros and cons and after that, what you DO NOT understand, I am sure many guys will be able to help you.

Basic info - What do you already know about the company. Have you read through the CX website and absorbed all the media releases as well as company fact sheets. Have you googled aviation news updates on CX and its acquisitions and business model, challenges as well as future developments.

Reading and reference material - Books like 'Beyond Lion's Rock, Syd's Pirates, The 49'ers Story provide historical background. Can be ordered on Kindle or hardcopies from amazon.

Technical info - Wikipedia, Aircraft info, HK geography/weather trends and demographics.

Reading and interview prep material - How to ace the pilot interviews. Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators, Fly the wing, How to Fly the Big Jets, Aviation Weather. All these are similarly avail at most pilot stores or Kindle versions and hardcopies.

All the other tests will be based on your experience and education. It ALL well described in the past 100 pages at least. Info from 2010 is more than sufficient.

After you have done all that and STILL have queries, PM me ;) I will be glad to assist.

Cheers

[NZ744]

Hi can someone please give me the full rundown of the reasonings and psych tests? What's involved, tips, do's and don't, practice tests etc...

Much appreciated :)

[NZ744]

:rolleyes:

I don't see what's wrong with asking for what's involved with the two (reasonings and personality tests). I understand you cannot really practice a psych test but I am more asking for what to expect, format, tricks, tips (time orientated) etc so no surprises with the process...not answers! Having never taken one before, I think this is a fair question...no?

Cheers

[smurf84]

NZ744 -

Maybe this will help buddy.

Abstract Reasoning Test (http://abstract-reasoning-test.com/en-us/4269/page.aspx/6/7ceeffafdfd9450784be/)

[buzz85]

Hello everyone,

If anyone is interested in preparing for either Stage 1 or Stage 2 I have the book 'Preparing for Your Cathay Pacific Interview' by Captains XYZ. I used it to prepare for my interviews.

PM me if you are interested and we can arrange something.

Cheers

[illustrator]

hmmmm that book was published around 2001 and is rather obsolete if i remember correctly...

[kawcraft]

Anyone know what the recruitment schedule for 2012 is like? I cant seem to find it on their website.

[imran_x66]

Does anyone know when are the usual interview dates in UK?

[kitcanfly]

it' difficult to predict the schedule,
however, they usually notice the date of 1st stage interview to applicants by email after 4-6 months of their submission

[buzz85]

hmmmm that book was published around 2001 and is rather obsolete if i remember correctly...


The 11th Edition of the book was actually published in 2005 and thats the one I am offering. I realise that this is now 7 years later and I do agree that the company has changed some and the recruitment process has been altered. But obsolete? I disagree. Yes, some portions are out-of-date (fleet size, etc) but the up-to-date information can be accessed via the website.

However, during my preparation I was recommended the book by someone who is currently now on the AE program in Adelaide, and I myself passed the 2nd Stage at the beginning of the month. I found some of the information useful and was asked a few questions in my interview from sections in the book. Obviously every interview is different.

I'm not too concerned about offloading the book, just thought I would put it on offer for anyone who is considering the 1st or 2nd stages and is looking for information that could help them, rather than 190-some pages of a thread that has a lot of arguing and conflicting information. I personally did not find much thread info beneficial for preparing for the interview process.

With that, all the best to applicants and current pilots of CX, and if anyone is interested, PM me.

Cheers

[Jim-J]

The book is well out of date re fleet, interview stages et al, but still offers great HR type questions that I found useful. Best prepare and cover all aspects than go in blind....

[Sirawit]

Please email me as well.

[email protected]

Thank you in advance:)

[ace20110627]

Is anyone having the initial interview on 21 Feb?

[ocanadaperfect]

Hey, does anyone know if HKID holders hold any advantages to the ones that do not? And it seems like a lot of people here are after the Advanced Entry (at least 250 flying hours in hand)? Because they no longer accept non HKID holders to apply without 250 hours? am i correct?

[liugorgor]

ocanadaperfect:

Correct you wont be consider unless you have a CPL with 250 hours if you DONT have a HK ID. The reason for is HK immigration does not recongise a cadet as a skill labour who does not have a CPL and 250 hours. Indeed, if you look into Hong Kong nowadays, the city is way overloaded with mainland China tourist plus a consistent growth of the population itself. I think they just cant letting oversea labour comes in and in nonstop.

Personally I really don't think there is an advantage if you have a HKID. I believe you are just competing in a different programme which is the 61 weeks one. Before 2008, this programme was only for HKID holder anyway, but just because aviation in HK is not such a popular topic, a lot of young people don't even have the chance to taste what aviation is all about, with a result a lot of them cant actually fulfill the basic requirement of the Cadet programme hence CX opened up to international applicants.

[indigopilot]

Anyone appearing for the initial stage on 22 nd feb in Mumbai?
And ppl kindly shed some light on how to prepare for initial stage n what to expect...
Thnx

[kitcanfly]

the demand is much much higher than the supply, there is serious shortage of cadets, the only thing we have to do is to make sure we meet the standard, no one would take your place;)

[ocanadaperfect]

Thanks for your reply liugorgor! Just one more question... when they do the selection, will the people aiming for the 2 different programs be competing against each other? cuz if I'm a HKID holder, isn't it a lot more benefitial if i apply for the 61week one because I'll just be competing against HK ppl as opposed to people from all over the world?

[schweizer2]

they'll select who they want, when they want and for which course they want.... assuming the candidate signs the contract..

im sure if they fill out enough advanced entry slots, they may just not bother with a full 61 week course? not sure but it would seem like a way for CX to fill out demand a lot quicker.....

best of luck either way.

[indigopilot]

What's d jki booklet?

[xu149]

Hey guys, any ideas how is the suitability assessment is going to be conducted?
Any info about it will be much appreciated. Cheers!

[m_panpan]

What about the Transition Training. Everything in this thread refer to the Cadet Programme.
Comprises the Cadetship of Transition training and will they, since I guess, it all comes down to the level of experience, which lane cadet/ae/tt they end up in, have any advantage when it comes to upgrade to JFO?
Anyone know how many candidates in respective cadet/ae/tt?? Or what it takes to be a tt instead of ae?
Anyone have any reflexion of the TT-training/lane?

[j3pipercub]

"suitability assessment"

Almost sounds like a casting couch...

[xu149]

omg yikes! :}

[j3pipercub]

Sorry, subtlety is lost on me.

So the suitability assessment will go as follows:

You arrive at a faceless business complex and ring the bell of an office space that has no name next to it. They will let you up, filming you the entire time from several angles. The room will be really brightly lit, they will ask you how much LESS than C scale you'd be willing to work for, promising they'll fast track you based on the outcome of the assessment. You of course fall over yourself with eagerness to please (perhaps due to Patriachal issues) affirming that you'd be happy to pay CX to fly for them. You spend the next 45 minutes (read 6 years) 'trying on' various pineapples for size and at the end of it all you give the camera a very shallow fake smile in the hope that they might let you fly their big shiny jet, yet feel utterly humiliated from what you just did on camera. It isn't until you have left the premises and are driving away, not being able to sit down without a donut cushion (Read left CX with only a P2X rating and f*ckall chance of work anywhere else) that you didn't even ask for a kiss before you were f*cked.

Good luck to any starry eyed fool who is stupid enough to take this package. My one piece of advice is avoid the spiny leafed variety of pineapple, might be easy to insert, the removal is a whole different kettle of fish...

j3

[iPilot88]

Hey guys. Came back last week from HK and passed Stage 2. Now off to Aus on the 23rd of February until the 10th of March for Flight Grading. Anyone in on the same dates? Anyone with some ideas on what to expect? Inbox me and we can have a talk about it. Cheers. Good luck ya all.

[liugorgor]

ocanadaperfect

I am not exactly sure about that actually. Technically I believe you can think it that way or I suggest you should think the biggest enemy is yourself. I personally reckon as long as you can fulfill their requirements, show them your PERSONALITY in the interview should be ok. Simply because personality is a very very important component they will consider. Cathay seems like to train cadets in their way. So I really dont think lack of flying experience or have 3000 jet hours what so ever will be a definite advantage. And I really dont think a 6 month AE course or a 61 weeks course will be a big difference for them as well.

But I think schweizer2 is also right as well. They can simply select who they want in either courses I reckon. It really depends on your flying experience. In fact, since they have a high demand on pilots atm. So just show yourself in the interview and you will be fine.

[crwjerk]

So just show yourself in the interview and you will be fine.

No, no, no, surely it can't be that easy????? I actually had to prove myself to them to give me a job.

[Stallone]

the updating portal has gone FUBAR since forever

[flyber]

When cx are preparing a class eg CP44 to be sent to FTA, do they have a ratio for ab initio, AE, or TT or if they just get only AE or Ab initios, that's it?

[liugorgor]

crwjerk

well yah of coz I am sure all applicants do need to make some efforts to study and prepare for the interview. But CX also tend to ask a lot of questions that will actually make you show your personality. In the other words, they will get to know you a lot more from the interview and eliminate those applicants dont fulfill their personality requirement. So what I am saying is, in terms of personality, it might be something that you cant hide in front of these very experience recruiter.

[ChinaBeached]

.....literacy on the hand is an entirely different smoke & mirrors exercise?

[ocanadaperfect]

so what "personality" are they looking for?

[Aliz]

Hello :)
Got an initial interview next month in London.
I've got around 300hrs and frozen ATPL.
I've been looking up info about the flight training in Adelaide, but its still not 100% clear to me what we'll do there? Type rating? or multi engine hours? do they need us to have a min flight time after that training..?
Thx for the info!!

[captain.weird]

@Aliz, congrats with getting your assessment.

Good luck with reading the 193 pages of this thread, you really need it.

[crwjerk]

AOA update today mentions immigration finally got their act together and said no more Ab initio cadets that are not residents. Great news. Like in any country immigrant workers should bring skills and not just the ability to warm a seat in order to get a work permit.

Still excited?

[Cpt. Underpants]

Highly appreciate if anyone can share/PM a typical SO ROASTER at CX

With the current salary, an S/O's looks like this:

http://www.wizardrecipes.com/upload/Roast%20Quail.jpg

It should look like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Roast_chicken.jpg

[crwjerk]

No, really???

[blbl8326]

anyone know the time period (waiting) between them receiving an application and asking for an interview?

[blbl8326]

thanks! because i really want to work as a pilot and that is a good way to get in

[slotsdown]

Can the senior blokes - for goodness sake, stop whining. I think all aspirant CX pilots' would apprecite some advice and not cynical comments. My presumption is that pple want to work for CX because they admire the airline. They are not spoilt know it all brats as one pilot put it.

Ok, point noted, what pple want to hear is not the "positive" advice they get. However, how and what are the wannabes learning from you folk (the senior CX Cynics)? Definitelty a paranoid approach, childish behaviour - yes, it sickens me to the gut the manner in which some of you comment, an autocratic approach to juniors - trust me, we take note of how some of you treat us (the juniors) and it worries us that we might end up like "you" pple, stop indoctrinating us with paranoia!

IF THE TRUTH IS TO BE SAID, THE SENIOR BLOKES NEED TO GROW UP AND GO TO THE GYM INSTEAD OF SEATING BEHIND THE COMPUTER TYPING TRASH ON THIS FORUM IN THEIR CLUTTERED ROOMS AND WITH THEIR BEER BELLIES!:=

[Kenny]

For crying out loud....what on earth is wrong with you lot?

You have the gall and cheek to have a go at guys that were flying before any of you were an itch in your fathers pants and yet you write as if you're 12 year olds texting some girl.

Pple!!! Ur!!!!

You want any of the guys at CX to take you seriously? Write your posts like adults and the professionals you supposedly aspire to be.

[GrobRanger]

lol if these old folks behave like an adult or just a tiny bit as a professional, the whole cx fop would become a different story

props for you Slotsdown and Kenny :D:ok:

[j3pipercub]

Ok, so poor widdle slotsdown is telling the experienced guys to grow up, based on his wealth of life experience and G(r)obRanger has been polluting bandwidth with his brand new handle... You two have no idea the impact your current actions will have on YOUR OWN future. I mean it's not that hard. Go and sit in a quiet room without your phone for half an hour and take the situation to it's logical conclusion. The people you are bemoaning now for whining WILL be you in 25 years time. You are your own worst enemy, you just don't realise it yet.

The hypocrisy and irony from you two is staggering. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Christ Almighty help us all if this is typical of the standard coming through wanting a career in aviation. If it is, might go back to single pilot...

j3

[flyhardmo]

stop whining. I think all aspirant CX pilots' would apprecite some advice and not cynical comments

What You think is whining is actually advice. Why don't you believe what the people who actually work for Cx tell you instead of justifying your foolish decision. You are getting shafted that is the the plain and simple truth. If you can't see it now you will in a few years and then Post your smarties
Remark on this forum.:=

[flyber]

What's reqd bmi level for cathay cadet?

[ixg888]

Hi guys i just want to ask if i will qualify as a second officer at cx. I currently hold a cpl/ir and currently undergoing first officer training at alpha aviation for airbus 320. But my cessna hours is only 200...

[schweizer2]

ixg888,

Sorry but to be honest, your post sounds insulting to anyone who will just give you the answer.

You have demonstrate absolutely nothing towards research of your own.

Im just going to spoon-feed you the answer this time, as I think someone else will anyways.

Q: do you qualify as SO for CX

A 1: www.cathaypacific.com (http://www.cathaypacific.com) scroll down, click on careers, flight deck jobs. and I believe theres a tab that reads "requirements", click on that, read the requirements and I think you should have your answer.

A 2: read this thread, 190+ pages on information (and crap)

If you have done enough research to do an A320 self sponsored type rating, please have at least the minimum amount of respect towards CX pilots (not me) that are helping in this forum by showing a bit of innitiative on your side!

sorry to be blunt, but it is shocking for someone to want to join an airline without even looking at their website. :ugh:

[ixg888]

good day sir, here is the requirement that i have read on their website.

Advanced Entry – a 32-week programme for applicants who possess an ICAO CPL and have in excess of 250 hours flight time in specified categories.

with all due respect sir, I have done my fair research in my re-application for CX.
my question in my position is, I think, is valid as there was no mention of an added rating will help me in my RE-application this time as an advance entry pilot. When I applied for CX last year I only had 22 Hours and wasn't able to qualify. So all I did was train and improve before my 12-month duration for re-application arrive. It so happened that my training went faster than expected.

So I decided to go through a FOTraining for airbus 320 to be able to show CX what kind of preparation after my initial application.

Sir, I apologize for any insults that you think I had caused. But it was just an honest query.

Thank you and good day.

[schweizer2]

Advanced entry requirements:

Total hours = 250
Total PIC not including PIC u/s= 100
Total cross country = 35
Cross Country PIC = 30
Total Night Time = 10
Night PIC = 5
Night T/O and LDGs PIC = 10
Night Navigation training = 1
Night Dual = 3
Instrument flying = 10

This is from a form I received by CX when I applied....

P2 and P2X hours are counted at half rate.

[Jim-J]

If it doesn't say 'Airbus/Boeing Rating would be advantageous', it aint gonna help. Not for AE programme anyway.....

[schweizer2]

I agree with the above post, dont think the a320 type rating will assist in any way, shape or form with CX well atleast for AE cadets,

[Cpt. Underpants]

au contraire, mon frère...

ixg888s' willingness to pay for a rating is fodder for the CX recruiting peons.

It's indicative of a well developed case of SNJ syndrome, eager to spend daddy's money to subsidise the inadequate illDoAnythingForAnAirlineJob pocket money.

He should be sure to tell the recruiters that he has his own jar of Vaseline, will pay for his uniform, and really, really, really doesn't want any salary, ever. A bit of begging and something to kneel on will probably help too. Don't forget the Rolex watches for the interviewers.

[boxerpilot]

ixg888 u can PM me.

Will provide you some info that you can think about and use.
Daddy's money or not, u wont go unscathed in this forum :) If you are 'zero' hours - You are still gonna get crap, similarly for anyone with experience. :):cool:

[smurf84]

bond737 - Which part of the world are you from? So it all got over in 2 hours?

[ncjulo]

Hi All,
Just back from the 1st initial interview but pretty screwed up about the tech quiz. Does anyone know how it is taken into account? Do we have to be successful at 75% or more or less like the Atpl exam, is there an minimum average to get etc??
I am pretty sure I've done several mistakes and I'm do stressed about it!!

Thanks

[congoman]

I've just finished reading John Warham's book "The 49ers"
Should be mandatory reading for anyone contemplating the move.

[M.FALCON]

Hi All, I also applied for the CX ab-initio course, mid 2011. Haven't heard anything from them, but recently attempted to update my info and was denied due to my application being currently processed. Any idea if this means that it is being moved through, or would it have said this the whole time? any idea of how long they take to respond to applications, and wether or not there are contact details by which to check on the status of mine?
cheers.

[404 Titan]

M.FALCON

It’s quite obvious you haven’t done any research because if you had you would know that the International Cadet Scheme is no more for ab-initio foreign applicants. The Hong Kong Immigration Department has put a stop to it which quite frankly should have happened two years ago when the first ab-initio cadets were employed. As far as the Hong Kong Immigration Department is concerned you don’t bring any skill to Hong Kong that isn’t already available here.

As for the rest of your questions, they have been answered to death already. Use the search function.:ugh:

[b503]

Dear All,

Does anyone have a stage2 interview on the coming 13-April 2012? We might prepare technical stuff together as well as practicing some group exercises.

Please voice out if you have interview on 13-April.

B503

[Wannaberightseat]

NIKI. DC3 parked outside Cathay City

Do some research before you ask these questions. Its even mentioned in Wikipedia :=:ugh:

[Sp0r3]

Actually, the "Niki" in CX City is just a similar model DC3 repainted into the old 1940's livery with Niki's registration. The real Niki is long gone somewhere.

[liugorgor]

Think the First dc3 is now at hong kong science museum

[Stallone]

I am a SO for CX via the cadet pilot program 61 week course. I changed usernames so management wouldn't find me. I have been SO for just over a year now and a lot of us are struggling to make ends meet. On top of that CX are always screwing with our rosters messing our plans on days off etc. The job itself is quite ok. You get to work with some professional people and travel to some ok destinations. The conditions are just not good enough for comfortable living in HK as opposed to my previous life style back home in the UK. If anyone has questions about life as SO at cx via the cpp just ask. Its the least i can do to warn others of what they are signing up for.

NB

may we know where do you stay, kind of housing and the rental costs.

why do you say many are struggling to make ends meet? Guess it's better to elaborate on this point to show a clearer picture to everyone here..

thanks in advance

[Shirazmerlot]

Just received a rejection letter from the management. Ouch...it hurts. How can I reply the position again?

[Clish]

I heard that you can reapply after 1 year

[captain.weird]

Flyber

I'm very sorry to hear that. If you read the posts above you will understand that the 61 weeks course is closed, which the HK government has a big influence in. The government said that the >250hrs applicants didn't bring any 'specialities' to HKG. So that must be the reason that you are rejected. You did pass I think, but not under the new rules. I suppose that you don't have a HKID?

Success dude, try Kenya Airways CPP. Otherwise, get your CPL and build up your network, go for bush flying and maybe try Cathay.. If not, I'm sure you will get in another airline!

[smurf84]

captain.weird

The government said that the >250hrs applicants didn't bring any 'specialities' to HKG.

>250 hours? What are they looking for exactly?

Cathay's AE program requires candidates with 250+ hours which is also a HKCAD/HKID requirement, if I'm not mistaken.

[flyber]

@captain_weird, yap, I did my stage 1 before the policy was put into effect.I wonder if they really serious by telling me to have an icao english re-test 6 months later the no ab initio policy withstanding

[captain.weird]

@Smurf
I'm very very sorry. I did mean <250hrs..

@Flyber,
I feel for you man.. Make the best of it.. I think you have learnt something about those selection stages! You do have now interview experience which you can use for other airline interviews!

Work hard and remain your ambition! It will pay off! When? God knows..

[404 Titan]

bond737
Now, I myself don't know why they mentioned +250hours in their website!
It’s not a HKCAD requirement, that’s why. It’s a HK Immigration Department requirement for the issue of a work visa.

[smurf84]

captain.weird - Thanks for confirming. :)

Regarding the prerequisites, I was told by one of the flight crew recruitment specialists in Hong Kong, that any deficiency in the flying hours would have to be met within 4 months, subject to clearing the final interview in Hong Kong.

[flyber]

Anybody here with an idea on Icao English re-test. I guess it's done during the grading because I don't think cx will pay for the tickets to Hk just to do the re-test.I was told I will have it in 6 months time.

[Clish]

so they didn't pass you on the ICAO and you are allowed to simply redo that section?

[flyber]

@clish, yeah, I was told I will re-do it in 6 months time. Unusual?

[ArmstrongLimit]

@nb

I as well would be interested in hearing more about the trials and tribulations that you are experiencing as a SO with Cathay. However could you please elaborate more detail in regards to how your situation would change had you have been a AE cadet, accepting the $550,000 hkd sign on bonus?

Thanks
-Lance

[smurf84]

bond737- How did your interview go in Mumbai?

By the way, I do not know anyone who experienced it. But I got to know this from The flight crew recruitment specialist. I guess that condition exists.

[Clish]

well no... i just didn't know you can retake a part of the test.... so does that mean you are on hold until your retest? So you finished all the stages for your exam? Care to share why they didn't pass you on your english?

[b503]

Dear All,

Will there be anyone attending the stage2 interview on 12-April-2012? If yes, please PM me and we might study together.

I just wonder what sort of "Aviation Mathematics" is it about? according to the email CX sent, there will be 45mins to complete the test, it seems a bit longer than the traditional. does it mean the test has changed?

[ksh]

what if i have 200 hrs on aircraft and 50 on an FNPT simulator ???
:confused:

[smurf84]

You may/may not get away with it. I think you'll be fine. I had 230 odd hours of flying experience plus 20 odd hours on the simulator, and I was called for the interview. But that's just the interview. They could take a decision on the hours even after that. Good luck anyway.

P.S. - If you read more about the CX recruitment process on Pprune, there are chaps with 200 hours who sat for the interview. *chuckle chuckle*

[ksh]

that's a relief... thanks a lot

[kmagyoyo]

You seriously think they'd accept 25% of your hours being in a simulator when you've only got 200 to start with :ugh:

[404 Titan]

How many more times does it have to be said, it isn’t CX’s or the HKCAD's decision as to the 250 hour requirement. It is the HK Immigration departments call. Those that were already given a first interview date prior to the immigration department’s ruling in December were allowed to proceed and if successful would get a visa. If you didn’t have a stage one interview booked prior to December and currently don’t have 250 hours or a HK Residence Card, to put it bluntly, you’re sh*t out of luck. You DON’T meet the requirements for a HK work permit, period.:ugh:

[smurf84]

Correctamundo

[Clish]

congrats dude! Have you done your ICAO yet?
That is a bit strange... maybe they changed the format of the math questions this year..... before it was 33 questions in 30 mins.. i wonder how it changed.. anyone take the 2nd stage interview recently and is willing to share?

[ksh]

:ouch: cant i appear for the interview atleast and if i make it through the selection i can complete the immigration department requirements and fly those many hours.:(

[dhps]

Hi there,

Anybody out in HK for thir 2nd interview in March? Maybe swap notes etc.

Also anybody looking into doing this on the "Transition Training" programme with an ATPL already and over 1500 hrs?

[smurf84]

ksh -

Have you been called for the interview? In that case, don't worry about it till they tell you what to do.

[crwjerk]

flight crew recruitment specialists
You 'd think they'd know what they were doing with this title wouldn't you???

[404 Titan]

bond737
Then why would they invite pilots with <250Hrs, at the first place, for stage one interviews after December?!!
Because the invites were put out before the HK Immigration Department made their ruling. As I have said interviews occurred after the ruling in December and January because they were invited prior to the ruling and were assured visas by the Immigration Department if successful. If you don’t believe me, ring them and find out for yourself.
ksh
cant i appear for the interview atleast and if i make it through the selection i can complete the immigration department requirements and fly those many hours.
You’re kidding right? Why should they interview you if you don’t meet the requirements for the AE or TT cadet course? To get a work permit in HK, CX must sponsor you and to sponsor you, you must meet the requirements at the time of interview. My advise, go and do the flying and re-apply when you meet the requirements for the AE or TT cadets courses.

[CX-A330]

Thanks you to everyone who helped me into this Cadet Program. I am offered the 61 week course in Adelaide by CX :ok: this is a dream come true. Best of luck to everyone else.

404titan is right about immigration, and minimum requirements. such a shame for those who missed out.

no.boundaries please check your pm thanks much appreciate :ok: