BA pilots vote to strike
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Planet Funk
Agree. They (BA) aren’t interested in negotiating seriously....yet.
The ‘sleeping tiger’ has woken. I bet the management never would have thought over 90% wouldn’t show. I think it’ll be close to 100% on the 27th if a deal isn’t done.
The IAG/BA management will continue down this path of more sanctions etc until the shareholders/investors say enough is enough.
I think BALPA should ramp up the pressure and increase the number of days for the next round of possible strikes. I applaud all those that went out, especially the first wave of guys and gals on the 9th. There is no turning back now. You must stand together.
The ‘sleeping tiger’ has woken. I bet the management never would have thought over 90% wouldn’t show. I think it’ll be close to 100% on the 27th if a deal isn’t done.
The IAG/BA management will continue down this path of more sanctions etc until the shareholders/investors say enough is enough.
I think BALPA should ramp up the pressure and increase the number of days for the next round of possible strikes. I applaud all those that went out, especially the first wave of guys and gals on the 9th. There is no turning back now. You must stand together.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 593
Likes: 105
From: London
Time for Cruz to go. He took over, or was given an airline to run, which was in good shape hence the 2b profit, no thanks to him. In his brief time he has:
1. reduced to share price to near an all time low.
2. Managed to precipitate the first pilot strike in the airlines “ 100 year “ history with the most incredible solidarity.
3. Has dumbed down the short haul product.
4 Picked up a huge fine, 183 m, for IT incompetence, the biggest penalty ever imposed by the ICO.
5. Managed to precipitate trainers and even managers to resign.
Now, compare that with the superb business performance of the late Sir Colin Marshall, who had the onerous task of vastly reducing staff numbers to get BA into shape, which he and Lord King certainly did. That said, Sir Colin managed to retain the respect of virtually all employees, and I have never heard of any unpleasantness levelled against him.
Its a long time since I was a BA pilot but I am an IAG shareholder, hoping for a nice gain when Cruz leaves as happened when Ayling left.
Time for change.
1. reduced to share price to near an all time low.
2. Managed to precipitate the first pilot strike in the airlines “ 100 year “ history with the most incredible solidarity.
3. Has dumbed down the short haul product.
4 Picked up a huge fine, 183 m, for IT incompetence, the biggest penalty ever imposed by the ICO.
5. Managed to precipitate trainers and even managers to resign.
Now, compare that with the superb business performance of the late Sir Colin Marshall, who had the onerous task of vastly reducing staff numbers to get BA into shape, which he and Lord King certainly did. That said, Sir Colin managed to retain the respect of virtually all employees, and I have never heard of any unpleasantness levelled against him.
Its a long time since I was a BA pilot but I am an IAG shareholder, hoping for a nice gain when Cruz leaves as happened when Ayling left.
Time for change.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 352
Likes: 1
From: on a beach
BA Management has shown repeatedly they will not be negotiating. They would rather lose hundreds of millions in revenue than give in. They will play nasty, threaten you, spread lies in the media rather than do a deal.
It is not logical behaviour. That is simply because it is not their money they are playing with, it is shareholders. They are slowly putting Plan B in motion that will break BALPA forever, give them time they will win.
Therefore the only thing that will stop them is the shareholders, because it IS their money being lost.
The strike needs to be decisive, and force shareholders to put pressure on management. That is the only thing they will listen to.
If BALPA announce 6 months of strikes they will fold immediately before any legal action is brought. Not because of management, because of the shareholders protecting their investment.
The terms are:
15% over 3 years.
Public Apology from BA.
Cruz resignation.
Reinstatement of Benefits.
No disciplinary action against strikers.
Until then BA is grounded.
This will resolve the strike within days.
If you want to play fair and nice with Waterside, they will happily drag this out until Plan B is ready and they hold all the power over you. Scare the shareholders and you instantly win.
You have just grounded the airline. It is you that has the power.
Use it or lose it.
It is not logical behaviour. That is simply because it is not their money they are playing with, it is shareholders. They are slowly putting Plan B in motion that will break BALPA forever, give them time they will win.
Therefore the only thing that will stop them is the shareholders, because it IS their money being lost.
The strike needs to be decisive, and force shareholders to put pressure on management. That is the only thing they will listen to.
If BALPA announce 6 months of strikes they will fold immediately before any legal action is brought. Not because of management, because of the shareholders protecting their investment.
The terms are:
15% over 3 years.
Public Apology from BA.
Cruz resignation.
Reinstatement of Benefits.
No disciplinary action against strikers.
Until then BA is grounded.
This will resolve the strike within days.
If you want to play fair and nice with Waterside, they will happily drag this out until Plan B is ready and they hold all the power over you. Scare the shareholders and you instantly win.
You have just grounded the airline. It is you that has the power.
Use it or lose it.
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: UK
Time for Cruz to go. He took over, or was given an airline to run, which was in good shape hence the 2b profit, no thanks to him. In his brief time he has:
1. reduced to share price to near an all time low.
2. Managed to precipitate the first pilot strike in the airlines “ 100 year “ history with the most incredible solidarity.
3. Has dumbed down the short haul product.
4 Picked up a huge fine, 183 m, for IT incompetence, the biggest penalty ever imposed by the ICO.
5. Managed to precipitate trainers and even managers to resign.
Now, compare that with the superb business performance of the late Sir Colin Marshall, who had the onerous task of vastly reducing staff numbers to get BA into shape, which he and Lord King certainly did. That said, Sir Colin managed to retain the respect of virtually all employees, and I have never heard of any unpleasantness levelled against him.
Its a long time since I was a BA pilot but I am an IAG shareholder, hoping for a nice gain when Cruz leaves as happened when Ayling left.
Time for change.
1. reduced to share price to near an all time low.
2. Managed to precipitate the first pilot strike in the airlines “ 100 year “ history with the most incredible solidarity.
3. Has dumbed down the short haul product.
4 Picked up a huge fine, 183 m, for IT incompetence, the biggest penalty ever imposed by the ICO.
5. Managed to precipitate trainers and even managers to resign.
Now, compare that with the superb business performance of the late Sir Colin Marshall, who had the onerous task of vastly reducing staff numbers to get BA into shape, which he and Lord King certainly did. That said, Sir Colin managed to retain the respect of virtually all employees, and I have never heard of any unpleasantness levelled against him.
Its a long time since I was a BA pilot but I am an IAG shareholder, hoping for a nice gain when Cruz leaves as happened when Ayling left.
Time for change.
This will drag on because IAG don’t like losing face and they are well and truly cornered. BA are taking it out on pilots but we are a very united community and we will prevail against their predictable, unlawful, unsafe, and ineffective tactics. Trying to wear pilots down with pay penalties, short-notice roster changes, and and reduced crew compliments on long-haul only reduces safety for customers. It does not dent our will at all. Proper managers could have put this to bed in days.
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,673
Likes: 2
From: Europe
A lesson from recent history in Australia
BA Management has shown repeatedly they will not be negotiating. They would rather lose hundreds of millions in revenue than give in. They will play nasty, threaten you, spread lies in the media rather than do a deal.
It is not logical behaviour. That is simply because it is not their money they are playing with, it is shareholders. They are slowly putting Plan B in motion that will break BALPA forever, give them time they will win.
Therefore the only thing that will stop them is the shareholders, because it IS their money being lost.
The strike needs to be decisive, and force shareholders to put pressure on management. That is the only thing they will listen to.
If BALPA announce 6 months of strikes they will fold immediately before any legal action is brought. Not because of management, because of the shareholders protecting their investment.
The terms are:
15% over 3 years.
Public Apology from BA.
Cruz resignation.
Reinstatement of Benefits.
No disciplinary action against strikers.
Until then BA is grounded.
This will resolve the strike within days.
If you want to play fair and nice with Waterside, they will happily drag this out until Plan B is ready and they hold all the power over you. Scare the shareholders and you instantly win.
You have just grounded the airline. It is you that has the power.
Use it or lose it.
It is not logical behaviour. That is simply because it is not their money they are playing with, it is shareholders. They are slowly putting Plan B in motion that will break BALPA forever, give them time they will win.
Therefore the only thing that will stop them is the shareholders, because it IS their money being lost.
The strike needs to be decisive, and force shareholders to put pressure on management. That is the only thing they will listen to.
If BALPA announce 6 months of strikes they will fold immediately before any legal action is brought. Not because of management, because of the shareholders protecting their investment.
The terms are:
15% over 3 years.
Public Apology from BA.
Cruz resignation.
Reinstatement of Benefits.
No disciplinary action against strikers.
Until then BA is grounded.
This will resolve the strike within days.
If you want to play fair and nice with Waterside, they will happily drag this out until Plan B is ready and they hold all the power over you. Scare the shareholders and you instantly win.
You have just grounded the airline. It is you that has the power.
Use it or lose it.
On 29 October 2011, seemingly all by himself Qantas CEO Alan Joyce grounded Qantas stranding over 80,000 passengers after a board meeting on the Saturday morning.
Hand on heart he swore that it was spur of the moment decision, no advance positioning and planning; pure theatre of course it was entirely premeditated.
Rushing to intervention by the Workplace "Fair Work" Commission the pilot union missed THE Opportunity to break Joyce.
The centre piece of the justification for the immediate grounding by Qantas to the Australian regulator was "safety" Pilots would be so distressed by the "lockout" that they needed to be immediately grounded.
Had the pilot union instructed members to take time and de-stress as argued by management, a week of Operating Revenue Loss by Qantas would have sealed Joyce's fate.
Qantas IR correctly surmised the psychological impact would see pilots break ranks and rush back. The gamble worked.
Airlines cannot survive Operating Revenue loss, their expense base is very large and difficult to reduce.
The advantage pilots have at BA, is that management had clearly indicated this is a gunfight, unlike those in the antipodes arm yourselves accordingly.
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 199
Likes: 3
From: Top of the World
Yup. It wouldn’t be safe to work under this stress. You’re risking your passengers safety and your jobs.
Its really that simple.
Write an open letter to shareholders, apologising for the £7billion loss from your 6 months of contractual sickness.
It’d be over in days and you can get on with your lives, whilst teaching managers a lesson in who is important and who is disposable.
Hoping Balpa can muster the necessary.
Its really that simple.
Write an open letter to shareholders, apologising for the £7billion loss from your 6 months of contractual sickness.
It’d be over in days and you can get on with your lives, whilst teaching managers a lesson in who is important and who is disposable.
Hoping Balpa can muster the necessary.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 470
Likes: 52
From: The Dirty South
BA Management has shown repeatedly they will not be negotiating. They would rather lose hundreds of millions in revenue than give in. They will play nasty, threaten you, spread lies in the media rather than do a deal.
It is not logical behaviour. That is simply because it is not their money they are playing with, it is shareholders. They are slowly putting Plan B in motion that will break BALPA forever, give them time they will win.
Therefore the only thing that will stop them is the shareholders, because it IS their money being lost.
The strike needs to be decisive, and force shareholders to put pressure on management. That is the only thing they will listen to.
If BALPA announce 6 months of strikes they will fold immediately before any legal action is brought. Not because of management, because of the shareholders protecting their investment.
The terms are:
15% over 3 years.
Public Apology from BA.
Cruz resignation.
Reinstatement of Benefits.
No disciplinary action against strikers.
Until then BA is grounded.
This will resolve the strike within days.
If you want to play fair and nice with Waterside, they will happily drag this out until Plan B is ready and they hold all the power over you. Scare the shareholders and you instantly win.
You have just grounded the airline. It is you that has the power.
Use it or lose it.
It is not logical behaviour. That is simply because it is not their money they are playing with, it is shareholders. They are slowly putting Plan B in motion that will break BALPA forever, give them time they will win.
Therefore the only thing that will stop them is the shareholders, because it IS their money being lost.
The strike needs to be decisive, and force shareholders to put pressure on management. That is the only thing they will listen to.
If BALPA announce 6 months of strikes they will fold immediately before any legal action is brought. Not because of management, because of the shareholders protecting their investment.
The terms are:
15% over 3 years.
Public Apology from BA.
Cruz resignation.
Reinstatement of Benefits.
No disciplinary action against strikers.
Until then BA is grounded.
This will resolve the strike within days.
If you want to play fair and nice with Waterside, they will happily drag this out until Plan B is ready and they hold all the power over you. Scare the shareholders and you instantly win.
You have just grounded the airline. It is you that has the power.
Use it or lose it.
Some recent history
• In 2016 Delta pilots voted in a 18% immediate pay raise and a 3% & 4% raise for the next 3 years. Including backpack and retirement. 30 % over 4 years. In 2012 they’d agreed to large raises as well.
• Both years priorto both contracts they’d voted down a paltry pay rise.
• United management then matched the Delta deal.
• In 2014 Southwest pilots voted in a 14% immediate pay raise and 3% raise for the next 3 years. Including raises in retirement and full back pay. The year before they voted down a paltry pay offer.
Walsh and Cruz understand these numbers. And how low their costs are comparatively. Delta and United are direct competitors. All three airlines pay more than BA. in every respect. They are also firing on all cylinders - Unlike BA; who have been a management disaster for years.
The only thing holding back BA as an airline, is their management. Hopefully the shareholders see the problem.
Last edited by JPJP; 15th September 2019 at 07:45.
Joined: Mar 2010
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 343
Likes: 65
From: St. John's Wood
Don't forget who put Cruz in the BA CEO chair - it was IAG. And the man at the top of the IAG pyramid is Walsh. Even if Cruz disappeared tomorrow, another in the same mould would be brought in, given the same agenda by Walsh, and the cycle would repeat. BA pilots might get a breather for several months, maybe even a year or two, but they could easily be back where they are right now, before very long.
That is the way big business works now - chew up the workers, spit them out, pocket fat 'bonuses', and move on to the next project of raping another business. These people are evil.
That is the way big business works now - chew up the workers, spit them out, pocket fat 'bonuses', and move on to the next project of raping another business. These people are evil.
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 202
Likes: 6
From: Somerset
BA Management
Time for Cruz to go. He took over, or was given an airline to run, which was in good shape hence the 2b profit, no thanks to him. In his brief time he has:
1. reduced to share price to near an all time low.
2. Managed to precipitate the first pilot strike in the airlines “ 100 year “ history with the most incredible solidarity.
3. Has dumbed down the short haul product.
4 Picked up a huge fine, 183 m, for IT incompetence, the biggest penalty ever imposed by the ICO.
5. Managed to precipitate trainers and even managers to resign.
Now, compare that with the superb business performance of the late Sir Colin Marshall, who had the onerous task of vastly reducing staff numbers to get BA into shape, which he and Lord King certainly did. That said, Sir Colin managed to retain the respect of virtually all employees, and I have never heard of any unpleasantness levelled against him.
Its a long time since I was a BA pilot but I am an IAG shareholder, hoping for a nice gain when Cruz leaves as happened when Ayling left.
Time for change.
1. reduced to share price to near an all time low.
2. Managed to precipitate the first pilot strike in the airlines “ 100 year “ history with the most incredible solidarity.
3. Has dumbed down the short haul product.
4 Picked up a huge fine, 183 m, for IT incompetence, the biggest penalty ever imposed by the ICO.
5. Managed to precipitate trainers and even managers to resign.
Now, compare that with the superb business performance of the late Sir Colin Marshall, who had the onerous task of vastly reducing staff numbers to get BA into shape, which he and Lord King certainly did. That said, Sir Colin managed to retain the respect of virtually all employees, and I have never heard of any unpleasantness levelled against him.
Its a long time since I was a BA pilot but I am an IAG shareholder, hoping for a nice gain when Cruz leaves as happened when Ayling left.
Time for change.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 593
Likes: 105
From: London
I agee with your points about the peformance but not about "Colon" Marshall as he was known. Lord King did the hard work of turning the airline round and reducing the workforce with compassion. Colon's style meant people turned up to work at Speedbird House and found their personal effects in a box outside their office meaning they had been fired. He also instituted the seagull management regime where senior managers did a job for 2 years, crapped on the staff and were then moved on to gain experience elsewhere. The whole airline would have worked better if the 4th floor had been demolished or sealed off with the SMs and Directors left to play with themselves while everybody else got on with running the airline. Colon was one of the least respected CEOs by the staff.
I had thought those tactics were in the tenure of Ayling.
I live and learn.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 44
Likes: 3
From: London
BA management would be ecstatic at that sort of deal. It’s probably far less than they’re planning on.
Some recent history
• In 2016 Delta pilots voted in a 18% immediate pay raise and a 3% & 4% raise for the next 3 years. Including backpack and retirement. 30 % over 4 years. In 2012 they’d agreed to large raises as well.
• Both years priorto both contracts they’d voted down a paltry pay rise
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 395
Likes: 8
From: UK
Don't forget who put Cruz in the BA CEO chair - it was IAG. And the man at the top of the IAG pyramid is Walsh. Even if Cruz disappeared tomorrow, another in the same mould would be brought in, given the same agenda by Walsh, and the cycle would repeat. BA pilots might get a breather for several months, maybe even a year or two, but they could easily be back where they are right now, before very long.
That is the way big business works now - chew up the workers, spit them out, pocket fat 'bonuses', and move on to the next project of raping another business. These people are evil.
That is the way big business works now - chew up the workers, spit them out, pocket fat 'bonuses', and move on to the next project of raping another business. These people are evil.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: uk
Blackfriar,the picture you paint of Sir Colin Marshall is not the one i have of the man.
I met him several times whilst he was Chief Executive at BA and found him to be the most approachable and decent manager i have ever encountered at this airline.
The airline prospered under his leadership and enjoyed the best years for both employees and customers.
Things went downhill after he departed and we are now, where we are.
I met him several times whilst he was Chief Executive at BA and found him to be the most approachable and decent manager i have ever encountered at this airline.
The airline prospered under his leadership and enjoyed the best years for both employees and customers.
Things went downhill after he departed and we are now, where we are.
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 202
Likes: 6
From: Somerset
Ayling was worse, the saying in BA at the time was "once we had a King, then a Marshal, now we are just Ayling". He was the most useless CEO as evidenced by the length of time it took for him to get another job after BA.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 593
Likes: 105
From: London
Blackfriar,the picture you paint of Sir Colin Marshall is not the one i have of the man.
I met him several times whilst he was Chief Executive at BA and found him to be the most approachable and decent manager i have ever encountered at this airline.
The airline prospered under his leadership and enjoyed the best years for both employees and customers.
Things went downhill after he departed and we are now, where we are.
I met him several times whilst he was Chief Executive at BA and found him to be the most approachable and decent manager i have ever encountered at this airline.
The airline prospered under his leadership and enjoyed the best years for both employees and customers.
Things went downhill after he departed and we are now, where we are.
In my own one to one contact with him I, too, found him extremely decent, well informed and approachable and we got to the heart of the problem I had encountered, which was very rapidly and fully resolved over coffee in the boardroom.
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 387
Likes: 1
From: Centre of Universe
If he hasn’t already been given his notice he must surely know he’s off. The problem is that IAG would be foolish to announce his dismissal during an industrial dispute - particularly one where the employees have a significant lead - and it falls to the doomed Sñr Cruz to negotiate a deal in a scenario where he finds himself totally out of his depth.
This will drag on because IAG don’t like losing face and they are well and truly cornered. BA are taking it out on pilots but we are a very united community and we will prevail against their predictable, unlawful, unsafe, and ineffective tactics. Trying to wear pilots down with pay penalties, short-notice roster changes, and and reduced crew compliments on long-haul only reduces safety for customers. It does not dent our will at all. Proper managers could have put this to bed in days.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 64
From: england
I do agree that the only way to win this is a total shutdown of the airline. I would suppose a 3-6 months strike. Whether BALPA could get a high % of pilots to stay out for more than a few weeks is anyone’s guess. Pilots would also be up against the fact that the company aren’t playing with their own money, unlike the pilots. It’s a bit like gambling against a casino that plays with everyone else’s money. Another factor is the loss of face that would occur should BA/IAG give in and back down.
A rational outsider would see it as good business sense, however, we are overrun with managers suffering from small man syndrome in The Group.
One thing about working in BA is that it’s never dull.
A rational outsider would see it as good business sense, however, we are overrun with managers suffering from small man syndrome in The Group.
One thing about working in BA is that it’s never dull.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 100
From: Botswana
I don’t agree a full shutdown is the only way to win, granted it’s the only way to win quickly but, when you factor in the amount of uncertainty Balpa’s strategy creates amongst the public, it’s going to seriously hurt the forward bookings and the cash flow.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 64
From: england
Just read the comments on Sir Colin Marshall. I met him several times in differing circumstances and always found him to be a charming, intelligent man.
I wonder if those people that experienced a different side were the “managers potted plants” that seemed to reside in forgotten offices being paid handsomely to slow or hinder the operation. I seem to remember when we got rid of 20,000 people , BA still managed to fly the same number of planes, pax and baggage as before.
sadly, someone got drunk on the idea that continued cost cutting will continue to generate continous profits. It does smack of lazy thinking.
I wonder if those people that experienced a different side were the “managers potted plants” that seemed to reside in forgotten offices being paid handsomely to slow or hinder the operation. I seem to remember when we got rid of 20,000 people , BA still managed to fly the same number of planes, pax and baggage as before.
sadly, someone got drunk on the idea that continued cost cutting will continue to generate continous profits. It does smack of lazy thinking.