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BA pilots vote to strike

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BA pilots vote to strike

Old 5th Aug 2019, 08:39
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
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No, it wasn't that, sorry. The weather was Europe: CAVOK.
Anyway, I'll accept what you say. Maybe it was a one off.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 08:46
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chris the Robot View Post
You'd have to be stark raving bonkers to sign up to something that you don't know the specific details of.
Yeah we'd NEVER do that would we.....

Oh wait, we already have. JSS enter stage left! And what a brilliant success that's proving to be.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 09:44
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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May have been the day last week when the message was promulgated by an over eager manager that staff travel was “cancelled” for the day.
Funny thing about BA is that you can never find a manager to make a decision about the big important stuff, but the niff naff and triv issues have a line of managers ready to stick their oar in.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 09:51
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by The Mixmaster View Post
Perhaps you can explain why Jet2 offer their pilots a profit share or EasyJet offer theirs a share save scheme?
In short, a Senior Management decision. As for employee share schemed, some firms dislike these as they are expensive to administer, have difficult tax implications, dilutes the owners' holding, may not as be as beneficial to staff as originally intended, etc. Given that BA has a legions of staff and staff turnover is quite high in the junior ranks, the administration would probably be painful.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 11:20
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Originally Posted by Tight Accountant View Post
However, one thing I do find strange about BA employees' perception on how BA as a firm should behave it is the idea that it is workers cooperative, where the fruits of the labour and rewards are equally shared. I get the impression that this is a legacy from being a State owned airline which hasn't quite diminished.
When you have companies like Jet2 and EasyJet willing to share profits with their pilots your above “legacy” argument holds no water.

Quite correct it’s a Senior Management decision, the fact that IAG/BA Senior Management are insisting on unspecified “change initiatives” to self fund the package on offer is the very reason for the current Industrial Dispute. The unity displayed by BALPA so far is commendable and I would argue the administration costs for the implementation and maintenance of a share save scheme would be a drop in the ocean compared to the losses incurred from strike action.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 11:30
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kungfu panda View Post
No, it wasn't that, sorry. The weather was Europe: CAVOK.
Anyway, I'll accept what you say. Maybe it was a one off.
FWIW in the day(s) following the major thunderstorm episode that hit the south east UK there was a lot of disruption, with aircraft and crews out of position, which I know from colleagues led to serious disruption of the normal staff travel process ex-T5. It then became even more complicated due to somebody making the decision hunterboy has described upthread..

What you describe ( the 1 hour queue) is certainly not the normal process on a normal day for stand-by travel ex-T5..

Anyhow back to the thread.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 14:21
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Mixmaster View Post
When you have companies like Jet2 and EasyJet willing to share profits with their pilots your above “legacy” argument holds no water.

Quite correct it’s a Senior Management decision, the fact that IAG/BA Senior Management are insisting on unspecified “change initiatives” to self fund the package on offer is the very reason for the current Industrial Dispute. The unity displayed by BALPA so far is commendable and I would argue the administration costs for the implementation and maintenance of a share save scheme would be a drop in the ocean compared to the losses incurred from strike action.
I think you have conflated my two previous posts BA culture and employee share schemes. It isn't just the admin which is painful, it is all the other items such as the accounting and tax issues which cause pain. Also, I suspect BA Management don't want staff becoming owners of IAG and having too much influence on the business. Digressing, looking into the history and origins of the current dispute, the will rub is that Balpa negotiated a pay cut of 2.6% some years ago and correct me if I'm wrong, never argued the case for reinstatement at a predetermined date? To me, that seem to poor negotiating but before everyone criticises, I'm an outsider looking in.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 15:16
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
I was told by a neighbour on our street that I should be ashamed of myself. He said it’s disgusting that I am earning 200k whilst others struggle........FFS........I don’t earn half that and thus far I have not done anything. I certainly don’t feel “safe and secure” when the company allows these articles to go unchallenged
Pretty similar situation, different country. I was pretty sure that my company black ops was behind worried journos that claimed we worked about 70 hrs a month while earning what was more than double the pay we had at the time and public interest loving editors that put "Lazy pilots" on their frontpages, so I wasn't really surprised when that same papers refused to print union's correction even as an advertisement. Most neighbours choose just to give me stern looks, except for the one who went vocal. So I offered him our HR phone so he can apply for my position. Upon learning he has no licence or medical, I offered him to connect him with the buddy of mine who runs flight school and quoted him the approximate price for CPL + fATPL. To this day I can't understand what made him perform about face with not quite happy expression when I just tried to be helpful.

Folks, waste no time on union PR, Joe Public should carry the same weight in union - company relations as Jack Schidt does. Convincing pilots that public opinion matters is merely management's demoralization tool. Don't fall for it.

I suspect BA Management don't want staff becoming owners of IAG and having too much influence on the business.
Then they can perform the revolutionary, never-seen-before method of paying bonus in cash instead of in shares or options.

may not as be as beneficial to staff as originally intended
Yup, giving employees extra money surely wrecks original intention of building employees' character by making them suffer due to low pay.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 16:30
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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BA website today 5 August 2019, at 1120 BST, Update on,

Proposed industrial action by BALPA


First sentence, " We have been working with the pilots’ union, BALPA, to reach an agreement on pay and we are continuing with talks at ACAS." (My bold)

Penultimate sentence, " We understand how precious your summer holidays are and we are very sorry BALPA has threatened to call this strike action. We will continue to exhaust every possible means to avoid it and we urge BALPA to return to talks as soon as possible". (My bold)

I don't see how both highlighted sentences can be true! But then I am probably a senile retired pilot, RAF, BA and eJ.

1066
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 16:41
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Well they should have started discussing it properly last November then!
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Old 7th Aug 2019, 07:56
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Need to take Cruz behind the bike shed.
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Old 7th Aug 2019, 08:26
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Well it is all going well this morning......

No doubt there will be expectations, again, that the front line staff (who the airline management don’t seem particularly keen to reward in a manner proportionate to the profits) will pick up the pieces..again.


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Old 7th Aug 2019, 08:48
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Any update on how the talks at ACAS are going?
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Old 7th Aug 2019, 09:32
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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It does seem to tie in with BA’s assertion that there isn’t anymore money available to pay the pilots pay claim.....if only they didn’t have to pay massive data protection fines and disruption payments for these IT disasters caused by a lack of investment over the last 10 years.
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Old 7th Aug 2019, 09:36
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
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Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
if only they didn’t have to pay massive data protection fines and disruption payments for these IT disasters caused by a lack of investment over the last 10 years.
This unfortunately seems to be the "ethos" in the UK: You did something wrong so you now have to pay a big fine.
No mention of education/training to make sure you found out what went wrong, why it went wrong and therefore an understanding of what you need to do to prevent recurrence.

Everything from parking transgressions, speeding, dog fouling pavements, breaches in data protection legislation.....
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Old 7th Aug 2019, 10:22
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Walnut

Yet again more IT problems with the airline. All front line staff are now in the firing line, the pilots are one of the key cogs, not just in flying the a/c, but showing ingenuity and flexibility in operational workarounds. Management should understand that their flight crew all go the extra mile to resolve problems. This is not a good time to further antagonise their flight crew.
I did 34yrs at the sharp end and must have saved the airline £100ks by thinking outside the box. I speak from experience the management was poor then it seems to have got a whole lot worse.
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 04:41
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 51
Wanted to share my support for all BA staff in getting better pay deals and working conditions
​​​​​​
I've always wanted to be a pilot and I'm slowly edging towards that dream but the closer I get, and the more I speak to current pilots, the more I question whether I actually want to do it anymore.

I won't recall every single instance but I've met a lot of pilots recently (including BA) and most, if not all, seemed genuinely unhappy, tired and disillusioned. What really stands out to me though is that very few know their true value as a human being and as an airline employee and those who do, are drowned out by the "be grateful" crowd.

This is what has ruined recruitment at entry/junior level because people will do anything the airlines demand of them because they're "grateful" just to be considered. And when they're in the job, keep schtum, put up with it because you should be grateful for what you get.

Absolute nonsense. Your contribution and position in the company should be viewed in its own merit. As a public company you have every right to question how the company rewards and renumerates its exec staff and shareholders if you're the ones who are paying for it, contributing to success and profits and seeing a lack of reinvestment in your career.

I have friends and family who worked for BA for years as ground and IT staff, treated like absolute garbage by the management but who never collectively united to make their voices heard.

About time BA pilots stood together. What makes me sad is Im sure there are pilots watching in the sidelines from other carriers who see this as an opp to jump to BA and the airline knows that so will hold it over your heads as leverage.

Best of luck to you all

Last edited by shamrock_f22; 8th Aug 2019 at 04:54.
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 08:09
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Full support from me for the BA pilots.

Maybe the Virgin Atlantic ones will show some cojones and vote to take action against the attacks on their terms and conditions.

I've always considered VAA to be "enthusiastic amateurs" and the only professional part of the airline are the pilots and engineers. The quality of the management

is such that they've only ever made a profit in a handful of years in the past 30 (or so they say!).

Good luck to the BA guys.
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 08:35
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
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Originally Posted by farefield View Post
Full support from me for the BA pilots.

Maybe the Virgin Atlantic ones will show some cojones and vote to take action against the attacks on their terms and conditions.

I've always considered VAA to be "enthusiastic amateurs" and the only professional part of the airline are the pilots and engineers. The quality of the management

is such that they've only ever made a profit in a handful of years in the past 30 (or so they say!).

Good luck to the BA guys.

we didn’t drop the 15% pension contribution for new joiners ,
we still have the 750hr rule (which I think is the absolute golden egg)
we also had a reasonable pay rise

but I also agree the management is pretty rubbish (but who’s isn’t )

I fully support BAs strike !! It’s about time !

Virgin is majority owned by Delta , I’m sure they have a big say in what happens
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 15:41
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Funny thing Management, when ever I ask them a specific question ,they need some time, then get back to You with the wrong answer, to late, after the problem has time-expired or gone proper PearShaped.
Anyway.
Good to see fellow Aviators in the UK finally taking action!

Regards
Cpt B
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