BA pilots vote to strike

[Jumbo2]

Is it the unions or the fact that most third world countries have better labour laws (better employee protection) then the United Kingdom.

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by Jumbo2

Is it the unions or the fact that most third world countries have better labour laws (better employee protection) then the United Kingdom.

That’s got a lot to do with it, as Rated De mentioned upthread -

“The asymmetry advantage enjoyed by the employer is not by accident.”..

[Capewell]

The RMT have recently announced twenty seven days of IA over Christmas under the same labour laws as us. The railway unions regularly shut london down inconveniencing millions of commuters till they get their employers to come to the table.

[Xulu]

This bewildering capitulation just cannot be understated. I can only imagine the reps have been offered large brown envelopes under the table if this goes through.

[Shaman]

Originally Posted by Xulu

This bewildering capitulation just cannot be understated. I can only imagine the reps have been offered large brown envelopes under the table if this goes through.

I have read some rubbish on Pprune but this takes the biscuit!

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by Xulu

This bewildering capitulation just cannot be understated. I can only imagine the reps have been offered large brown envelopes under the table if this goes through.

I know feelings are running high but even so....don't forget many of the senior reps volunteered to put themselves in the firing line on the two days of actual IA, and along with many other BALPA members are living with the sanctions, and have had their time available to concentrate on Union activities curtailed by the company.....so all in all I'm still willing to cut them some slack.

I think the big big stuff up was the initial tactics plus I suspect many of the reps and some of the members didn't really predicte the "ferocity" of the company's response....A two day block of IA was never going to cut it..after all BA has had plenty of practice at dealing with two day of disruption so all it really did was give the company an opportunity to demonstrate it's will and then the pilots had time to stew over the possible consequences before any further further call to arms.

More than 12 weeks into the dispute period heaven knows what else the company has "offered" the reps if there is a return to IA under the existing mandate but I can guess it won't be money in brown envelopes...

[Xulu]

There is only ever one way to win IA in this modern age, stated in this thread several times and successfully demonstrated by RMT over and over again; the nuclear option that forced BA shareholders to step in.

Unfortunately, BALPA didn't have the balls to pull it off. They pretended to... but nope, nothing there. Some actually defended calling off the 3rd day of strike as a stroke of genius - but as most suspected, it was in fact capitulation. Couldn't even follow through with that.

So now, be prepared for the comeback. The shareholders are demanding a lesson you won't forget, and who's going to stop them?

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by Xulu

The shareholders are demanding a lesson you won't forget

Source for that claim?

IMHO if you look at the details of the proposed settlement most shareholders won't be too upset with how this looks like ending up (subject to acceptance).

[Maxfli]

Apples & Oranges

Originally Posted by Capewell

The RMT have recently announced twenty seven days of IA over Christmas under the same labour laws as us. The railway unions regularly shut london down inconveniencing millions of commuters till they get their employers to come to the table.

The rail workers do not need Staff Travel to get to work, many pilots do and this necessity has been fully exploited in this dispute.
The strike, instead of creating greater unity has unfortunately only engendered division.
The net result, regrettably, despite the efforts of BACC / BALPA, is that many will add 1% to the 11.5% in this proposal.

[Barcli]

Originally Posted by Maxfli

The rail workers do not need Staff Travel to get to work, many pilots do and this necessity has been fully exploited in this dispute.
The strike, instead of creating greater unity has unfortunately only engendered division.
The net result, regrettably, despite the efforts of BACC / BALPA, is that many will add 1% to the 11.5% in this proposal.

It is not a necessity though is it..... How you get to work is none of BA's concern the fact that chose to use staff travel is no different to my choice of car to travel to LHR - none of the Companies business

[wiggy]

I have no idea what direct feedback the reps got during after the initial IA so the following is just my guess:

I don't think the shock of losing Staff Travel is/was the reason for halting IA after just two days...or at least it really shouldn't have been, given the warnings and what BA have done in the past. Also many seasoned staff travellers over time have come up with options for a work around (e.g; LoCo, drive, train) though I do accept a few are very exposed.

I think the much bigger issue for many might have been the imaginative way "strike day" rosters were constructed and then how pay was docked for trips that didn't get flown.

As for parallels with the rail dispute..same basic industrial relations environment, yes, but different trainset when it comes to management attitude and customer options.

[bucoops]

We flew BA for the first time in a while (last few years it has tended to be Virgin for longhaul or Tui for family holidays). Forgot how much we missed the BA cabin service, it's good to see the quality is still right up there.

What was sad to hear though was the morale of the cabin crew is way down (I know this thread is about BA pilots but there's a lot of discussion about employee benefits etc.) - we were quite shocked to hear we got our tickets for less than the cabin crew can get them for with staff discount! We had quite a long chat with a couple of cabin crew and I don't know how they keep going - although one said it was the only job she knew.

Just wanted to voice my support for BA front line staff everywhere - I really hope you can all get back the job conditions you deserve. BA should be the best in the world and that starts with keeping the employees happy.

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by bucoops

we were quite shocked to hear we got our tickets for less than the cabin crew can get them for with staff discount!

Yep, it happens..Without going into too much detail I'd offer the opinion that as crew the problem can be having to arrange travel around rostered work. The timing of roster publication can often rule out crew getting hold of the cheap commercial tickets or any discounted tickets that might have been available when the booking window for the flight first opened.

Outside of peak season on a certain route I have actually bought commercial tickets that, with the frequent flyer points discount, have cost less than a standby staff travel ticket would have cost on the same flight....

[bucoops]

Originally Posted by wiggy

Yep, it happens..Without going into too much detail I'd offer the opinion that as crew the problem can be having to arrange travel around rostered work. The timing of roster publication can often rule out crew getting hold of the cheap commercial tickets or any discounted tickets that might have been available when the booking window for the flight first opened.

Outside of peak season on a certain route I have actually bought commercial tickets that, with the frequent flyer points discount, have cost less than a standby staff travel ticket would have cost on the same flight....

I find it sad - it's a demanding job, long hours,the usual. There should be decent perks.

[cessnaxpilot]

Originally Posted by bex88

I got to 8.5 with 4% year 1, 3.5% year 2 and the 1% sign on bonus....ok that’s a one off, just realised that. 8.5% in jan still stands with 7.5% increase on the basic.

I don’t think anyone has been hung out to dry. We knew we would loose staff travel, we knew we would loose pay. The amount lost I agree needs to be fought. I assumed it would be a days pay at the daily rate for the month.

I don’t think a strike again will work. Every FO says they can’t afford to strike again with how much they lost.

Hopefully nobody is hung out to dry.

with that mentality, how can you ever get what you want? Withholding your skilled labor is the only leverage you have. It’s a game of chicken and you’re ready to cave in already?

[cessnaxpilot]

Originally Posted by beachbumflyer

That would probably work: a strike the American way

yes. And over here it’s not uncommon to have a few hostages that the company tries to discipline. We refuse to sign any contract unless all grievances are settled. Support your fellow crew! How can you even consider a contract that wouldn’t make the ones that went on strike for BA whole? They fought your fight... make sure you take care of them.

[wiggy]

I understand fully where you are coming from cessnax but you need to see this in the context of the UK and also appreciate how deep the company's pockets are/what funds they might have access to..

For years the advice on the line has been make sure you have a months pay in the bank for contingencies but the reality is there are many pilots in the UK who have leveraged themselves up to their ears and beyond to get into the industry, perhaps buy a house within traveling distance of London, and probably umpteeen other things. For many of them extended (as in multiple week / multiple month?) Industrial Action on zero pay is simply a non-starter on practical grounds. I don't like the situation but have to recognise that that's the Realpolitik that the union is working in.

That said I don't think there is any intention of leaving anybody behind.

[cessnaxpilot]

Originally Posted by wiggy

I understand fully where you are coming from cessnax but you need to see this in the context of the UK and also appreciate how deep the company's pockets are/what funds they might have access to..

For years the advice on the line has been make sure you have a months pay in the bank for contingencies but the reality is there are many pilots in the UK who have leveraged themselves up to their ears and beyond to get into the industry, perhaps buy a house within traveling distance of London, and probably umpteeen other things. For many of them extended (as in multiple week / multiple month?) Industrial Action on zero pay is simply a non-starter on practical grounds. I don't like the situation but have to recognise that that's the Realpolitik that the union is working in.

That said I don't think there is any intention of leaving anybody behind.

I know it’s difficult. I’ve been on strike with a company which had deep pockets. I also wasn’t in the best shape financially. We were told to prepare, but same thing here... most didn’t. Seldom does labor have much leverage, and a strike is certainly powerful.

Best of luck. I can empathize with the stress and uncertainty.

[Lufc]

When I joined BA in the later 90’s I joined Balpa. Over the years I voted on various issues, was on the losing side sometimes but accepted that as democracy at work. In 2016 though Balpa helped BA bring in JSS bidding. A strong statement but I say it because of (off the top of my head) the new bidline was sent to us as an 8 page black and white single font print document while JSS was a 32 page document with colour, different size fonts, diagrams etc; a much more interesting read. Also Balpa produced a JSS promotional video where a Rep stated that “under JSS everyone will get their very own bespoke roster, designed by you for you” Well as a junior captain I could see there was no way I could just design a Hong Kong, weekend off, Cape Town, weekend off etc roster and at a subsequent seminar the same rep admitted that statement was wrong. Anyway as a result of strong selling from Balpa we got JSS and I resigned from Balpa, not because I lost but because I felt the BACC no longer represented its members. (On a side note last year I was full time until October and have since been 75% part time, and yet this year under JSS I have done 25 more days at work than last years bidline year)
So I have been watching this strike from the side lines. Clearly there were a number of colleagues disgruntled with the BACC hence the election results giving them a new leadership.Initially I was impressed by the strong stance and threat of strike and very impressed that they chose to avoid August as Sept was still costly but avoided tv footage of families losing their holidays. I was also equally very impressed at the solidarity shown by those unfortunate enough to be in the firing line when the day came.
We all expected BA to be tough. We expected the staff travel embargo but not how 2 days strike would cost about a weeks wages! And talking to my colleagues since the strike then the general view has been the similar to mine, ie we either capitulate or go nuclear. Clearly 2 days wasn’t going to work. I feel Balpa had BA on the back foot. They didn’t expect the solidarity and couldn’t afford a 2 week strike. Alex Cruz had been put under pressure by Willie Walsh to get a deal done. He couldn’t expect to keep his job if we had embarked on a 2 week or indefinite strike. The ball was very much in Balpa’s court! Most members I think would have been happy with a cast iron guarantee to protect what agreements we still have and a fudging of the profit share or a higher extra pay rise instead of a profit share. There was no desire to go extreme and demand 15% payruse etc etc.
And then Balpa stalled before eventually caving in. I’ve just done SEP and the general feeling amongst the 15 or so colleagues was we’ve been let down by Balpa. Some are voting against the deal but others are battle weary. After initially being impressed by Balpa I’m disappointed with what they’ve achieved and I won’t be rejoining.

[Mrglass]

All done and dusted? Or do the pilots now vote on it?

Insider thoughts?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...ikes-shj5nr98w