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BA pilots vote to strike

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BA pilots vote to strike

Old 4th Nov 2019, 15:30
  #501 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 15
Wait for what? The momentum that we had is lost and BALPA has shown its hand to BA. Itís clear the BACC doesnít want to strike anymore and even if we vote this deal down, by the time we get a vote, the vote comes out and BALPA presents it, our mandate will have probably ran out. Itís clear that strikers are being thrown under the bus, just to get the exact same deal we already turned down! With the only change that we have now also lost our staff travel for a year. Good going.
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 15:46
  #502 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
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Originally Posted by Mansnothot View Post
Wait for what? The momentum that we had is lost and BALPA has shown its hand to BA. Itís clear the BACC doesnít want to strike anymore and even if we vote this deal down, by the time we get a vote, the vote comes out and BALPA presents it, our mandate will have probably ran out. Itís clear that strikers are being thrown under the bus, just to get the exact same deal we already turned down! With the only change that we have now also lost our staff travel for a year. Good going.
Yes, initially i think we were impressed by their tenacity and stood behind them but unfortunately their inexperience is showing. BA has broken the Union.. Well Done. I think anyone thinking of joining should give careful consideration before doing so.
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 21:22
  #503 (permalink)  
77
 
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Originally Posted by Panel3 View Post
Yes, initially i think we were impressed by their tenacity and stood behind them but unfortunately their inexperience is showing. BA has broken the Union.. Well Done. I think anyone thinking of joining should give careful consideration before doing so.
Looks like you have given up already. Sometimes you have to be in it for the longhaul. Maybe the strike has not had the success we hoped. However you are still the day to day manager of the operation. BA needs pilots onside for the daily operation to work. All is not lost.
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 21:41
  #504 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
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Originally Posted by 77 View Post
Looks like you have given up already. Sometimes you have to be in it for the longhaul. Maybe the strike has not had the success we hoped. However you are still the day to day manager of the operation. BA needs pilots onside for the daily operation to work. All is not lost.
If you consider 2 decades in for the longhaul then yes! Terms and conditions have been eroded during my time and this was the moment for the line to be drawn.
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 22:04
  #505 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 77 View Post
Looks like you have given up already. Sometimes you have to be in it for the longhaul. Maybe the strike has not had the success we hoped. However you are still the day to day manager of the operation. BA needs pilots onside for the daily operation to work. All is not lost.
Balpa has given up, not us. I have taken action but now because of their weakness, Iím left to choose between accepting a shit paydeal, having essentially gone on strike for nothing, but atleast getting staff travel back in a year. Or voting it down, risking that BA takes the entire deal of the table, and gaining absolutely nothing, but losing one of the main perks of working at BA for 3 years. I donít really see any longterm advantages here.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 01:01
  #506 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
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Please allow me to offer an alternative possibility to BA pilots?

In another place, someone said about the previous USSR, ďthey used to pretend to pay us, and we used to pretend to work.Ē

What an interesting concept?

If you catch my drift?

CEOs donít fly customers!
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 07:24
  #507 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
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It does make me smile that the current generation including the CC were the group that spent years moaning about the 34 point pay scale and the loss of the final salary pension as well as the more efficient working practices that we had voted in, have now had the chance to prevent more dramatic changes for future generations (having a better chance of doing so) are now caving in. I've only got 4 years left so a resignation from BALPA will give me a 3% payrise over any finalised deal.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 08:53
  #508 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Letís look where we came from. 1 year pay deal 2.3% and nothing else. We now have what I would say is a fair pay offer. I do not know of anyone else getting a deal like ours. 8.5% (including the sign on bonus) increase in January with 4% of that back dated to January 19. Add your incremental pay to that in the year and itís roughly 10%!!!

The other elements have seen improvement too. Ok not industry leading but still a improvement. Flight pay plus 10%, TAFB, pension etc etc. Duty rig improvement, RPI protection of some sort at least.

I do not see continuing strikes achieving anything. The issues we face and complain about are not pay, letís accept the pay deal and then open up discussions separately regarding the real issues that matter. Rostering, fatigue, pilot establishment, report times after leave for example.

Hopefully those who took action get their staff travel back but hands up we all knew what we were doing when, if we decided to take action. The one thing I really do think needs to be sorted is the level of deductions levelled at those who took action.

Who knows, if the election goes the wrong way we may need this extra money just to pay more tax........there are bigger problems out there than a 8.5% pay rise.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 09:16
  #509 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
The issues we face and complain about are not pay, letís accept the pay deal and then open up discussions separately regarding the real issues that matter. Rostering, fatigue, pilot establishment, report times after leave for example.
Itís early so Iíd need a coffee before looking at the Maths of the 8.5% figure youíve come up with but I suspect like many Iíd disagree very strongly with incorporating your annual increment into this .... probably for obvious reasons.

As far as your idea of putting pay to one side and now opening discussions about all the other gripes (and Iíd agree with everything on your list)...if this current dispute does come unravelled over the next few days we need to ask ourselves exactly what leverage are BALPA going to be left with hold the line on all other aspects of T&Cs?

For example if BA now turns around and says, actually, no we wonít enter into debate about rostering, itís legal so JSS stays as it is, quite what credible weapons have BALPA now got left in the arsenal?
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 09:55
  #510 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Originally Posted by bex88 View Post

I do not see continuing strikes achieving anything. The issues we face and complain about are not pay, letís accept the pay deal and then open up discussions separately regarding the real issues that matter. Rostering, fatigue, pilot establishment, report times after leave for example.

Hopefully those who took action get their staff travel back but hands up we all knew what we were doing when, if we decided to take action.
So if we strike further BA is going to do what exactly? Let the company burn to the ground? Or would the shareholders step in? Besides that, yes we all knew what we were doing when we went on strike, but that was when I still believed BALPA would have my back and would fight to get these ridiculous punitive measures removed before accepting anything. Now it just feels like we are being hung out to dry.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 16:23
  #511 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
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I got to 8.5 with 4% year 1, 3.5% year 2 and the 1% sign on bonus....ok that’s a one off, just realised that. 8.5% in jan still stands with 7.5% increase on the basic.

I don’t think anyone has been hung out to dry. We knew we would loose staff travel, we knew we would loose pay. The amount lost I agree needs to be fought. I assumed it would be a days pay at the daily rate for the month.

I don’t think a strike again will work. Every FO says they can’t afford to strike again with how much they lost.

Hopefully nobody is hung out to dry.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 16:59
  #512 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
I got to 8.5 with 4% year 1, 3.5% year 2 and the 1% sign on bonus....ok thatís a one off, just realised that. 8.5% in jan still stands with 7.5% increase on the basic.

I donít think anyone has been hung out to dry. We knew we would loose staff travel, we knew we would loose pay. The amount lost I agree needs to be fought. I assumed it would be a days pay at the daily rate for the month.

I donít think a strike again will work. Every FO says they canít afford to strike again with how much they lost.

Hopefully nobody is hung out to dry.
It depends upon whether legal action can overturn the amount taken and reduce it to a lesser amount. Also how much the union can arrange in terms of colleague assistance.

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Old 6th Nov 2019, 21:22
  #513 (permalink)  
KYT
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Originally Posted by Mansnothot View Post
Wait for what? The momentum that we had is lost and BALPA has shown its hand to BA. Itís clear the BACC doesnít want to strike anymore and even if we vote this deal down, by the time we get a vote, the vote comes out and BALPA presents it, our mandate will have probably ran out. Itís clear that strikers are being thrown under the bus, just to get the exact same deal we already turned down! With the only change that we have now also lost our staff travel for a year. Good going.
Thatís what BALPA did at Virgin some years ago, and t and c there have taken a battering apparently too.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 01:13
  #514 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 11
Unionís modus operandi has been:

1. Union shows strong opposition to change, but after initially seeming to present strong opposition ultimately recommends changes only half as bad as they were going to be and claims a victory. (Airline management 101)
2. Union allows, even promotes a strike to show how strong they are (but only when they sense that pilots may believe that the union credibility has been brought into question) but then let ACAS intervene to provide what is ultimately recommended as binding arbitration.

Either way Airline wins.

Iím sorry but Iím a cynical old git but Iíve seen all of this before. At my airline pilots set up a credible alternative (with approaching 75% of the pilot membership) but the management have spent years putting obstacles in the way to avoid ever having to deal with it. Makes you wonder why.

Ladies and gentlemen you have been truly thrown under a bus and unfortunately it does not surprise me in the least.

My vague hope is that a majority of the Rottweilers have turned.

Excuse my being vague, but litigation is a real threat.


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Old 7th Nov 2019, 07:31
  #515 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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The only way the pilots can win this (and it isn’t really a battle, just a way of forcing a decent amount of money out of the employer), is to do a SW trains and shut the airline down for a month. Call it 4 weeks unpaid leave, or a firebreak. I think many people would fancy December off. It is pointless doing a few days here or there. Close it down for a month and enjoy being at home. It may make you realise what an unhealthy lifestyle this is when you get 30 nights sleep in your own bed with home cooked food and a chance to spend quality time with loved ones and friends, rather than the faux life we spend at work. What have we got to lose?
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 09:35
  #516 (permalink)  
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How true, that a few weeks of UK nights sleep completely reinvigorates! Just sufficient to be fit enough to fight off the fatigue-a-thon of flying.......huge sigh!
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 18:55
  #517 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
The only way the pilots can win this (and it isnít really a battle, just a way of forcing a decent amount of money out of the employer), is to do a SW trains and shut the airline down for a month. Call it 4 weeks unpaid leave, or a firebreak. I think many people would fancy December off. It is pointless doing a few days here or there. Close it down for a month and enjoy being at home. It may make you realise what an unhealthy lifestyle this is when you get 30 nights sleep in your own bed with home cooked food and a chance to spend quality time with loved ones and friends, rather than the faux life we spend at work. What have we got to lose?
That would probably work: a strike the American way
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 10:40
  #518 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
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The asymmetry advantage enjoyed by the employer is not by accident.
Western economies have gradually eroded any semblance of a "new deal" and the industrial climate ensures outcomes that the corporate political donors are happy with.
As a result real wages have fallen in most industries and where resistance was encountered globalisaiton allowed outsourcing of entire industry from cars to all sorts of manufacturing.

To maintain living standards one either chose their parents well or increased the debt levels.
That most of the western economies have the personal debt levels they do is the result.

Withdrawing labour against an adversary with deep pockets is a tricky strategy.
Watching this unfold it is a surprise that BALPA had not correctly anticipated the corporate response.
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 13:59
  #519 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
Watching this unfold it is a surprise that BALPA had not correctly anticipated the corporate response.
I'm not sure many people could have reasonably foreseen the sort of responses whose legitimacy might yet end up being tested in court but other punishments such as loss of staff travel were a "given".

That said, I very very much agree with the thrust of your post..

Last edited by wiggy; 17th Nov 2019 at 14:23.
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Old 20th Nov 2019, 10:48
  #520 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
I'm not sure many people could have reasonably foreseen the sort of responses whose legitimacy might yet end up being tested in court but other punishments such as loss of staff travel were a "given".

That said, I very very much agree with the thrust of your post..
A fair summation.

There are two sides out there and only one playing cricket.
Paraphrasing Australian songwriter and orator , Paul Kelly.
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