BA pilots vote to strike
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: between the M6 and M25
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 38
From: UK
Ok devils advocate time... in a game of hearts and minds, in what way does 3500 pilots voting for strike action, on average earning £100k+ pa as well as rejecting a 11.5% pay rise, in the peak of the summer season, going to do them or the company any favours?
I totally understand if it’s about conditions and working practices - office staff and engineers and certainly cabin crew across industry have been suffering for 10+ years with people depressing the rate; by their own colleagues as well as the bosses. But if it’s just a numbers game an 11.5% pay bump... that’s hard to comprehend. See the staff of Monarch, Air Berlin, Primera, Wow and other airlines struggling...
I totally understand if it’s about conditions and working practices - office staff and engineers and certainly cabin crew across industry have been suffering for 10+ years with people depressing the rate; by their own colleagues as well as the bosses. But if it’s just a numbers game an 11.5% pay bump... that’s hard to comprehend. See the staff of Monarch, Air Berlin, Primera, Wow and other airlines struggling...
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: uk
Danny boy...
shows how little you know! Don’t believe any headline figures. Do your research, look at Lufthansa, KLM... and the American carriers pay deals before judging. Then understand better how hard and how much BA Pilots have sacrificed in the past ten years. Then consider inflation against this claim of 11.5%... also, look at the rises the CEO has enjoyed recently, as well as a bumper one off dividend for share holders. Only when you see the true picture will you understand how shafted we have been and the true insult this pay offer is.....
oh and please understand any pay deal is based on ‘ unspecified change initiatives.’ Translated to mean - self funded pay rise through harder work.
Play devils advocate.... do your research and look at fact.. not spin!
shows how little you know! Don’t believe any headline figures. Do your research, look at Lufthansa, KLM... and the American carriers pay deals before judging. Then understand better how hard and how much BA Pilots have sacrificed in the past ten years. Then consider inflation against this claim of 11.5%... also, look at the rises the CEO has enjoyed recently, as well as a bumper one off dividend for share holders. Only when you see the true picture will you understand how shafted we have been and the true insult this pay offer is.....
oh and please understand any pay deal is based on ‘ unspecified change initiatives.’ Translated to mean - self funded pay rise through harder work.
Play devils advocate.... do your research and look at fact.. not spin!
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
From: Uk
From my point of view pay is not the main reason people have voted the way they have. I don’t think the pay deal is unacceptable but just be straight. It’s 4% 3.5% and 3%. I cannot accept the “business changes” without being told what that means. They could offer me 25% and if it means longer hours then I am not interested.
I really hope a compromise is found because I don’t think anyone really wants to strike but I think many are prepared to do so.
I really hope a compromise is found because I don’t think anyone really wants to strike but I think many are prepared to do so.
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 38
From: UK
Danny boy...
shows how little you know! Don’t believe any headline figures. Do your research, look at Lufthansa, KLM... and the American carriers pay deals before judging. Then understand better how hard and how much BA Pilots have sacrificed in the past ten years. Then consider inflation against this claim of 11.5%... also, look at the rises the CEO has enjoyed recently, as well as a bumper one off dividend for share holders. Only when you see the true picture will you understand how shafted we have been and the true insult this pay offer is.....
oh and please understand any pay deal is based on ‘ unspecified change initiatives.’ Translated to mean - self funded pay rise through harder work.
Play devils advocate.... do your research and look at fact.. not spin!
shows how little you know! Don’t believe any headline figures. Do your research, look at Lufthansa, KLM... and the American carriers pay deals before judging. Then understand better how hard and how much BA Pilots have sacrificed in the past ten years. Then consider inflation against this claim of 11.5%... also, look at the rises the CEO has enjoyed recently, as well as a bumper one off dividend for share holders. Only when you see the true picture will you understand how shafted we have been and the true insult this pay offer is.....
oh and please understand any pay deal is based on ‘ unspecified change initiatives.’ Translated to mean - self funded pay rise through harder work.
Play devils advocate.... do your research and look at fact.. not spin!
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Timba Hold
Why doesn't it look good?
We are paid the money we are because of the responsibility we bear. We aren't Cabin crew, engineers or office staff- benchmark us against other pilots please. As for your 'six figures'- how many of us are on that kind of wage? Given the huge amount of recent joiners, I can assure you its not that many.
Public opinion will never be on our side- its how BA want to play it. As a passenger all I care about is the safe operation of the aeroplane. It is not relevant what we earn. We need to be sufficiently rested and motivated to do the job correctly. As posted above- do your research.
We are paid the money we are because of the responsibility we bear. We aren't Cabin crew, engineers or office staff- benchmark us against other pilots please. As for your 'six figures'- how many of us are on that kind of wage? Given the huge amount of recent joiners, I can assure you its not that many.
Public opinion will never be on our side- its how BA want to play it. As a passenger all I care about is the safe operation of the aeroplane. It is not relevant what we earn. We need to be sufficiently rested and motivated to do the job correctly. As posted above- do your research.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 100
From: Botswana
(The only thing that will spare us from airport hotels is that half of their business model is preying on and profiteering from the cancellations and times of mass disruption. They can’t really do that if half their rooms are full of aircrew so will probably demand a premium. At least that’s what I’m hoping).
Joined: Jul 2006
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 218
Likes: 15
From: Barcelona
Public support is absolutely irrelevant and a well known tactic employed by management to try to bend the will of organised labour. Your Colleagues in other airlines are right behind you on this BA Pilots. Wish you all the best!
Joined: Feb 2002
Aviation Qualifications: AME
Posts: 4,169
Likes: 1,098
From: UK
Why doesn't it look good?
We are paid the money we are because of the responsibility we bear. We aren't Cabin crew, engineers or office staff- benchmark us against other pilots please. As for your 'six figures'- how many of us are on that kind of wage? Given the huge amount of recent joiners, I can assure you its not that many.
We are paid the money we are because of the responsibility we bear. We aren't Cabin crew, engineers or office staff- benchmark us against other pilots please. As for your 'six figures'- how many of us are on that kind of wage? Given the huge amount of recent joiners, I can assure you its not that many.
Good luck.
Joined: Jul 1998
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: between 20 & 30 000'
You can trade a KLMAF / Lufty pay deal with an easy or a Ryan or any other P2F operator. The point I’m trying to make is that the whole industry is in the same boat as well as looking at it from an outsiders point of view - ie the customers and potential ones. Pilots earning 6 figures rejecting 11.5% over 3 years doesnt look good. How many people have the luxury of turning down such an offer? BALPA do a great job for their members however not everyone has the same protections. Cabin crew in some airlines barely make the living wage. Engineers and office staff longer hours on reduced resources whilst competing against reduced margins from E Europe and other territories.
I say, Good on you BA pilots, it is time pilots stood up for themselves, I really would like to see more of this around the world.
Joined: Apr 2018
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,817
Likes: 276
From: United Kingdom
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 123
Likes: 9
From: UK
They’ve already told us, Bex. You only have to go back to Klaus’ Q&A a few months back, it’s three day long haul and airport hotels, they’re quite transparent about it. He conceded they’re limited in how they can squeeze more out of SH due to the Night Jet Ban at Heathrow and Long Haul is already efficient. I struggle to see what else they can do unless they’re also eyeing up major changes to aspirational bidding (completely foolish IMHO as it’s the only thing left that attracts people to this place).
BA need to take stock and remind themselves why they're still lucky enough to have a (grossly reduced) number of applicants, however suitable. In spite of the pay dispute, it isn't for fast cash.
As Bex says, all the money in the world could not make me work harder than I do at the moment. The idea that we would sign a blank cheque for "unspecified business change", especially for a completely arbitrary and unknown one-off sum, is just hilarious.
Roll on the strike.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 291
Likes: 26
From: Hundred Acre Wood
That a group of people who, by their nature and training, are conservative, risk-averse and very capable of making considered, rational decisions has decided to make a stand speaks volumes. A management gets the workforce it deserves.
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 63
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From: Europe
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 306
Likes: 11
From: UK
They’ve already told us, Bex. You only have to go back to Klaus’ Q&A a few months back, it’s three day long haul and airport hotels, they’re quite transparent about it. He conceded they’re limited in how they can squeeze more out of SH due to the Night Jet Ban at Heathrow and Long Haul is already efficient. I struggle to see what else they can do unless they’re also eyeing up major changes to aspirational bidding (completely foolish IMHO as it’s the only thing left that attracts people to this place).
(The only thing that will spare us from airport hotels is that half of their business model is preying on and profiteering from the cancellations and times of mass disruption. They can’t really do that if half their rooms are full of aircrew so will probably demand a premium. At least that’s what I’m hoping).
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 460
Likes: 19
From: A little south of the "Black Sheep" brewery
Many here say that public support is irrelevant. Public support will be zero. Public opposition will be huge. When the travelling public, who on average earn a fraction of what the striking pilots already earn, have their travel plans seriously disrupted for those pilots to get a pay rise that most of that travelling public could only dream of, the opposition will be huge. Don't expect support from a single newspaper, TV news channel nor radio station. Expect to be vilified by all of them. Don't expect them to listen to your complaints that you should be compared with German, Dutch or American airlines, they won't be interested in that. They will be blaming you for their travel disruption.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 336
Likes: 3
From: somewhere in the middle
Every newspaper, politician, and man in the street in the U.K. loves the NHS. “Cornerstone of the nation” “what makes Britain Great” “Great dedicated, hardworking staff”
... until the Junior doctors (with good reason) decided that their new contract would be dangerous & a long way below market rate. Then they were absolutely slaughtered by the press (“Putting lives in danger” despite outcomes actually being shown to have improved on the strike days, due to greater availability of consultants who by & large supported the Juniors).
Cognitive Dissonance is not a thing in the media. They will churn out whatever line their masters in the establishment want them to. This strike will be no different.
... until the Junior doctors (with good reason) decided that their new contract would be dangerous & a long way below market rate. Then they were absolutely slaughtered by the press (“Putting lives in danger” despite outcomes actually being shown to have improved on the strike days, due to greater availability of consultants who by & large supported the Juniors).
Cognitive Dissonance is not a thing in the media. They will churn out whatever line their masters in the establishment want them to. This strike will be no different.