BA pilots vote to strike
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 265
Likes: 164
From: Sunnydale
What staggers me is that BA seem to be doubling down on the antagonisation of their pilots without accepting there has to be an after. This dispute will be resolved eventually one way or another and both parties will have to resume “normal” relations. All the threats re staff travel and forever seat freezes etc only thinks of the now and not the future. Very very very poor management.
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 780
Likes: 10
From: Doctor's waiting room
They still want you to report as per your roster so that they know who is striking and who isnt. Downroute , there is no way of demonstrating your part in the IA. If you are stuck downroute ( one such case was someone needing to get back for childcare) you are told to find your own way home !!
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 47
How to win friends ?
...
From my post 193 above ….
The afore-mentioned bloke in my pub who claims to be a striking BA pilot said his longhaul partner who left London on the 8th, ie who is not on strike, only found out after departure that the trip had been extended by two days. When they got to xxxx they found BA had already moved the NON STRIKING pilots into some lousy flop-house near the airport, while the cabin crew remained in the usual crew hotel.
He also said that as an actual striker, he found he had been ‘re-assigned’ a long trip which had already been cancelled, so they could take extra money off his September pay. We were moved to have a little whip-round for him.
...
Just wondering how BA is managing crews down route
The afore-mentioned bloke in my pub who claims to be a striking BA pilot said his longhaul partner who left London on the 8th, ie who is not on strike, only found out after departure that the trip had been extended by two days. When they got to xxxx they found BA had already moved the NON STRIKING pilots into some lousy flop-house near the airport, while the cabin crew remained in the usual crew hotel.
He also said that as an actual striker, he found he had been ‘re-assigned’ a long trip which had already been cancelled, so they could take extra money off his September pay. We were moved to have a little whip-round for him.
...
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Planet Funk
I honestly thought it would never come to this. I reckon the company never thought the pilots would have the cojones. Apparently CRC was like the Mary Celeste over the last couple of days. High 90% not turning up tells you something. I reckon the company were thinking worst case half wouldn't show and then we'll try and run the programme on the 27th and break the strike.
How wrong they've been. The unity shown is quite remarkable to be honest. After years of telling the leadership team and management of the complete disconnect between the two they are now forced to listen. I guess it's been a long time coming.
I should imagine the top, AC, WW etc have discussed how much short term pain they can take to wipe out BALPA and the pilot's, and therefore send a clear msg to anyone else in the IAG group. I think their aim would be to re-write ALL the agreements and completely shaft the workforce going forward.
I reckon it'll be 'who blinks first' on this.
I also think making punitive sanctions on those who have 'gone out' is only going to harden the resolve of them and others.
How wrong they've been. The unity shown is quite remarkable to be honest. After years of telling the leadership team and management of the complete disconnect between the two they are now forced to listen. I guess it's been a long time coming.
I should imagine the top, AC, WW etc have discussed how much short term pain they can take to wipe out BALPA and the pilot's, and therefore send a clear msg to anyone else in the IAG group. I think their aim would be to re-write ALL the agreements and completely shaft the workforce going forward.
I reckon it'll be 'who blinks first' on this.
I also think making punitive sanctions on those who have 'gone out' is only going to harden the resolve of them and others.
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 59
Likes: 2
From: UK
Are they (BA) having a laugh?? They are now "begging" for volunteers to help get the operation back on track..... As they have extended a load of trips downroute by two days, pilots will be two days late home, and the longer trips generates extra EASA rest! So now theres loads of uncovered trips on 12/13/14th!! Who'd have thought that would happen!!! (facepalm) !
The crazy/hillarious thing is that the people who've been away (unable to strike) need legal rest, so the only people "available" to do these trips will be people who've striked.... and they are the people that have been punished with pay deductions and loss of staff travel.
Yet the company think they will come to work to "help out"????? Also, they wouldn't even be paid overtime rates as the company said any strikers picking up EOT within 5 days AFTER the strike finished won't get premium rate.....
Are they incompetent, f*****g lost the plot more like!
Have we got a confirmed figure on how many turned up to "work"? Also, has it been confirmed strikers have (for now) lost fleet change bid rights (forever?)? I think I might have missed that in the many Comms!! I'm sure we'll get it all back just have to remain united! "We are United"!
The crazy/hillarious thing is that the people who've been away (unable to strike) need legal rest, so the only people "available" to do these trips will be people who've striked.... and they are the people that have been punished with pay deductions and loss of staff travel.
Yet the company think they will come to work to "help out"????? Also, they wouldn't even be paid overtime rates as the company said any strikers picking up EOT within 5 days AFTER the strike finished won't get premium rate.....
Are they incompetent, f*****g lost the plot more like!
Have we got a confirmed figure on how many turned up to "work"? Also, has it been confirmed strikers have (for now) lost fleet change bid rights (forever?)? I think I might have missed that in the many Comms!! I'm sure we'll get it all back just have to remain united! "We are United"!
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 64
From: england
Without wishing to incite unofficial industrial action, I would suggest nobody picking up an overtime trip for a month would bring the company to the table faster than another day of striking!
BA is run on overtime.
BA is run on overtime.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 35
From: Home
Are they (BA) having a laugh?? They are now "begging" for volunteers to help get the operation back on track..... As they have extended a load of trips downroute by two days, pilots will be two days late home, and the longer trips generates extra EASA rest! So now theres loads of uncovered trips on 12/13/14th!! Who'd have thought that would happen!!! (facepalm) !
The crazy/hillarious thing is that the people who've been away (unable to strike) need legal rest, so the only people "available" to do these trips will be people who've striked.... and they are the people that have been punished with pay deductions and loss of staff travel.
Yet the company think they will come to work to "help out"????? Also, they wouldn't even be paid overtime rates as the company said any strikers picking up EOT within 5 days AFTER the strike finished won't get premium rate.....
Are they incompetent, f*****g lost the plot more like!
Have we got a confirmed figure on how many turned up to "work"? Also, has it been confirmed strikers have (for now) lost fleet change bid rights (forever?)? I think I might have missed that in the many Comms!! I'm sure we'll get it all back just have to remain united! "We are United"!
The crazy/hillarious thing is that the people who've been away (unable to strike) need legal rest, so the only people "available" to do these trips will be people who've striked.... and they are the people that have been punished with pay deductions and loss of staff travel.
Yet the company think they will come to work to "help out"????? Also, they wouldn't even be paid overtime rates as the company said any strikers picking up EOT within 5 days AFTER the strike finished won't get premium rate.....
Are they incompetent, f*****g lost the plot more like!
Have we got a confirmed figure on how many turned up to "work"? Also, has it been confirmed strikers have (for now) lost fleet change bid rights (forever?)? I think I might have missed that in the many Comms!! I'm sure we'll get it all back just have to remain united! "We are United"!
Necessary to avoid the situation where pilots unfortunately rostered during Strike days, are disproportionately sanctioned over others on days off, who would have carried out IA.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 233
Likes: 13
From: Somewhere
Collateral damage, Beamer. It’s unfortunate but this is a fight that absolutely has to happen. If management manage to tear up all industrial agreements at BA (and that is their clear aim) you just watch the rest of the industry fall to pieces. This is a fight that is a long time now in the making but one that has (apart from a few scabs) almost absolute unity amongst the workforce. The rest of the industry will thank us for it afterwards.
Last edited by Plastic787; 11th September 2019 at 08:18.
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 359
Likes: 221
From: Yorkshire
Noel - The CAA had plenty of meeting's in the run up with the major AOC's (and BALPA were there) and most of them had scheduling agreements managing the excesses, or their FRMS managed it. I personally don't know any AOC's that work 7 E/L/N to the excess of EU FTL - I stand to be corrected however. In my experience the biggest change to Pilots with EU FTL is whereas under CAP371 if they sold days off they would likely get these days off replaced to manage the 7/14/28/84 day limits - not the case now with the ERRP.
What is worrying is that (from wiggy's comment) it appears that BA Short Haul has poor Ts&Cs/scheduling agreement protection against EASA's 'Fatigue Target Limits'. I would see that as a bigger concern than pay -- unless higher pay is a way of being able to afford part-time work to be able to create one's own protection from those dreadful FTLs.
As far as the 'collateral damage' that Plastic787 mentions, my travel arrangements are all to avoid using BA in favour of other airlines that provide that provide a nicer and more reliable service: When flying on holiday out of LHR I do not use BA short-haul to connect there as I have seen far too often where BA cancels their short-hauls whenever there are any problems at LHR. BA's handling of this present situation has firmed up my feelings on that and I am sure will taint the views of others, so maybe that 'collateral damage' is a bigger damage than BA management perceive?
I am not too sure that this will help other Pilots in the industry in general: If BA management make it an unattractive place to work then Pilots will not be so keen to move there which will mean that other airlines will not have the same worry regarding Pilots moving on, with the effect that that has on Ts&Cs.
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 387
Likes: 1
From: Centre of Universe
Twiglet1, About your comment "... most of them had scheduling agreements managing the excesses, or their FRMS managed it", 'most' is a long way from 'all' and FRMSs vary significantly, where the 'cheapest off the shelf' could be almost irrelevant to airline operations. The idea of FTLs is that the FTLS are the ultimate protection against Fatigue, not that something that could be commercially influenced (scheduling agreements or FRMSs) are having to be relied on as the ultimate protection. (About the 'work 7' days; I have done so under EASA FTLs: 7 consecutive days work totalling 45 hrs 30 mins duty, but with nearly 180 hrs free of duty before that and about the same after, as I have a "Ts&Cs protection" against the long-term extremes of EASA's FTLs)
What is worrying is that (from wiggy's comment) it appears that BA Short Haul has poor Ts&Cs/scheduling agreement protection against EASA's 'Fatigue Target Limits'. I would see that as a bigger concern than pay -- unless higher pay is a way of being able to afford part-time work to be able to create one's own protection from those dreadful FTLs.
As far as the 'collateral damage' that Plastic787 mentions, my travel arrangements are all to avoid using BA in favour of other airlines that provide that provide a nicer and more reliable service: When flying on holiday out of LHR I do not use BA short-haul to connect there as I have seen far too often where BA cancels their short-hauls whenever there are any problems at LHR. BA's handling of this present situation has firmed up my feelings on that and I am sure will taint the views of others, so maybe that 'collateral damage' is a bigger damage than BA management perceive?
I am not too sure that this will help other Pilots in the industry in general: If BA management make it an unattractive place to work then Pilots will not be so keen to move there which will mean that other airlines will not have the same worry regarding Pilots moving on, with the effect that that has on Ts&Cs.
What is worrying is that (from wiggy's comment) it appears that BA Short Haul has poor Ts&Cs/scheduling agreement protection against EASA's 'Fatigue Target Limits'. I would see that as a bigger concern than pay -- unless higher pay is a way of being able to afford part-time work to be able to create one's own protection from those dreadful FTLs.
As far as the 'collateral damage' that Plastic787 mentions, my travel arrangements are all to avoid using BA in favour of other airlines that provide that provide a nicer and more reliable service: When flying on holiday out of LHR I do not use BA short-haul to connect there as I have seen far too often where BA cancels their short-hauls whenever there are any problems at LHR. BA's handling of this present situation has firmed up my feelings on that and I am sure will taint the views of others, so maybe that 'collateral damage' is a bigger damage than BA management perceive?
I am not too sure that this will help other Pilots in the industry in general: If BA management make it an unattractive place to work then Pilots will not be so keen to move there which will mean that other airlines will not have the same worry regarding Pilots moving on, with the effect that that has on Ts&Cs.
Another poster mentioned BA crews had done 7 early duties on the bounce so I made an apology and swift exit.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,022
Likes: 170
From: uk
Collateral damage, Beamer. It’s unfortunate but this is a fight that absolutely has to happen. If management manage to tear up all industrial agreements at BA (and that is their clear aim) you just watch the rest of the industry fall to pieces. This is a fight that is a long time now in the making but one that has (apart from a few scabs) almost absolute unity amongst the workforce. The rest of the industry will thank us for it afterwards.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 233
Likes: 13
From: Somewhere
They might be the reason we exist, Beamer but we’re not a charity. It’s important to remember that. Why is it important that BA maintain Terms & Conditions? Because traditionally BA have hoovered up crews from other airlines, in part forcing them to up their game to at least some extent. If there’s nowhere left for people to go because BA terms and conditions have fallen below an aspirational level (and this process is happening already) then other airlines are emboldened to go after theirs with greater tenacity too.