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BA pilots vote to strike

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BA pilots vote to strike

Old 15th Sep 2019, 16:40
  #321 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RetiredBA/BY View Post


Perhaps, then, I have lived in a cosseted world, first I have heard of that, but then I had left the airline before CM.

I had thought those tactics were in the tenure of Ayling.

I live and learn.
Mrs Friar and I worked in Head Office during Colon's period as well as before and after.
Ayling was worse, the saying in BA at the time was "once we had a King, then a Marshal, now we are just Ayling". He was the most useless CEO as evidenced by the length of time it took for him to get another job after BA.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 16:56
  #322 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Originally Posted by Baltic Skies View Post
Blackfriar,the picture you paint of Sir Colin Marshall is not the one i have of the man.
I met him several times whilst he was Chief Executive at BA and found him to be the most approachable and decent manager i have ever encountered at this airline.
The airline prospered under his leadership and enjoyed the best years for both employees and customers.
Things went downhill after he departed and we are now, where we are.
Interestingly, I discussed CM with a former BA manager. Her views reflected what you described.

In my own one to one contact with him I, too, found him extremely decent, well informed and approachable and we got to the heart of the problem I had encountered, which was very rapidly and fully resolved over coffee in the boardroom.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 17:03
  #323 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mylius View Post


If he hasn’t already been given his notice he must surely know he’s off. The problem is that IAG would be foolish to announce his dismissal during an industrial dispute - particularly one where the employees have a significant lead - and it falls to the doomed Sñr Cruz to negotiate a deal in a scenario where he finds himself totally out of his depth.

This will drag on because IAG don’t like losing face and they are well and truly cornered. BA are taking it out on pilots but we are a very united community and we will prevail against their predictable, unlawful, unsafe, and ineffective tactics. Trying to wear pilots down with pay penalties, short-notice roster changes, and and reduced crew compliments on long-haul only reduces safety for customers. It does not dent our will at all. Proper managers could have put this to bed in days.
Proper Managers would have indeed put this to bed in days. The only issue is they all report to Directors / SVP's / Big Cheese's who spend most of their time micro-managing these Managers until they give up. With respect most Nigel's don't have a clue of this world, they just sympathise, put the world to rights in the cruise then go home.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 18:16
  #324 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
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I do agree that the only way to win this is a total shutdown of the airline. I would suppose a 3-6 months strike. Whether BALPA could get a high % of pilots to stay out for more than a few weeks is anyone’s guess. Pilots would also be up against the fact that the company aren’t playing with their own money, unlike the pilots. It’s a bit like gambling against a casino that plays with everyone else’s money. Another factor is the loss of face that would occur should BA/IAG give in and back down.
A rational outsider would see it as good business sense, however, we are overrun with managers suffering from small man syndrome in The Group.
One thing about working in BA is that it’s never dull.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 19:12
  #325 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
Another factor is the loss of face that would occur should BA/IAG give in and back down.
They backed down to Mixed Fleet, hunterboy and they didn’t cause anywhere near the disruption we have.

I don’t agree a full shutdown is the only way to win, granted it’s the only way to win quickly but, when you factor in the amount of uncertainty Balpa’s strategy creates amongst the public, it’s going to seriously hurt the forward bookings and the cash flow.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 20:55
  #326 (permalink)  
 
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I think the danger of that is they’re playing with other people’s money. We aren’t. At some point, pilots will drift back to work. Not many have a 6month strike fund.
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Old 16th Sep 2019, 05:16
  #327 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Just read the comments on Sir Colin Marshall. I met him several times in differing circumstances and always found him to be a charming, intelligent man.
I wonder if those people that experienced a different side were the “managers potted plants” that seemed to reside in forgotten offices being paid handsomely to slow or hinder the operation. I seem to remember when we got rid of 20,000 people , BA still managed to fly the same number of planes, pax and baggage as before.
sadly, someone got drunk on the idea that continued cost cutting will continue to generate continous profits. It does smack of lazy thinking.
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Old 16th Sep 2019, 12:07
  #328 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
Just read the comments on Sir Colin Marshall. I met him several times in differing circumstances and always found him to be a charming, intelligent man.
I wonder if those people that experienced a different side were the “managers potted plants” that seemed to reside in forgotten offices being paid handsomely to slow or hinder the operation. I seem to remember when we got rid of 20,000 people , BA still managed to fly the same number of planes, pax and baggage as before.
sadly, someone got drunk on the idea that continued cost cutting will continue to generate continous profits. It does smack of lazy thinking.
Thanks for the snidey put-down. No I wasn't a potted plant, maybe you were just one of his toadies or only met him but never had to deal with his decisions perhaps.
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Old 16th Sep 2019, 12:17
  #329 (permalink)  
 
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did they really get rid of 20,000 people ? Most of those were hived off to other companies i.e outsourced but still working for the airline indirectly .
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Old 16th Sep 2019, 14:11
  #330 (permalink)  
 
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I may be a little hazy on numbers...and that wouldn’t just be CM, but an approximation of the total number of staff that we “lost” over the years in various initiatives that still go on to this day.
i take your point about budget shifting and spin-offs to other companies, as well as the self employed contractors that came back on hundreds a day for a while.
As for the sensitive readers among us, I wouldn’t take it personally. We are all just a number at the end of the day. Once our usefulness to the company is finished, we are all shown the door. I don’t think anybody is under any illusions what kind of company we work for.
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Old 16th Sep 2019, 21:46
  #331 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bvcu View Post
did they really get rid of 20,000 people ? Most of those were hived off to other companies i.e outsourced but still working for the airline indirectly .
The definition of Full Time Equivalent employees is a loose one.
It might remove headline figures, but contractors and temporary, in certain categories get ignored.

The "reform" of British Airways was a tart up for privatisation.
The impact of which was a key ingredient in performance post listing.
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Old 16th Sep 2019, 21:53
  #332 (permalink)  
 
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Unity is strength

Pilots have been portrayed as overpaid primadonnas who really don't work that hard. The reality, however, is that over the last few decades, terms and conditions have only gone downhill: pilots work harder than ever, and in the summer months are often pushed to the legal, physical, and mental limits.
Competition is cut-throat. For airlines to stay afloat, they are forced to squeeze their workforce and pay them as little as they can get away with.After the recession in 2008, there was a general ‘tightening of the belts’ across all airlines. Pilots and cabin crew were asked to be 'realistic' and accept this race to the bottom as some kind of natural law. A weak recovery followed. Profit margins were restored – £2 billion in the case of BA. But this all went to shareholders and upper management. The belt remained tightened.
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Old 17th Sep 2019, 00:46
  #333 (permalink)  
 
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I was just wondering, if you’re down route on a layover, what happens regarding withdrawing yourself from duty ? How does this work.
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Old 17th Sep 2019, 01:43
  #334 (permalink)  
 
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Originally posted by Black Pudding:
I was just wondering, if you’re down route on a layover, what happens regarding withdrawing yourself from duty ? How does this work.
I have no connection with BALPA or with BA other than as occasional SLF, and have no knowledge about what happens.

However if I were down route, I would indicate to BA that I was willing to fly, and expect to be paid. If there was an aircraft available, then I would be inclined to operate it and add to the congestion at base. I might then make a donation from my pay for the flight to an appropriate strike fund.

On a separate theme, would it have a greater impact on BA if only Captains actually declined to work, and all FOs turned up as rostered? If they were not qualified for the left seat they would be unable to operate, but having turned up should expect to be paid and to retain all perks.
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Old 17th Sep 2019, 01:50
  #335 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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In the US when I was on strike... I was on my own. The union coordinates help to try and get you home. I understand it’s different in the UK, in that once we strike... we are out until the parties resolve the differences. It was stressful, but necessary.

good luck! It’s worth the struggle.
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Old 17th Sep 2019, 06:55
  #336 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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I am here to correct a mistake many are making. It is only the LHR/LGW reports on strike days that require BALPA members to not work. When down-route you are not required to take IA. So flights arriving on strike days are NOT performed by non-strikers. Most pilots down-route have had trips extended by up to 5 days. Many of these have pledged the extra duty pay this has triggered to the benevolent fund.
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Old 17th Sep 2019, 08:35
  #337 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Black Pudding View Post
I was just wondering, if you’re down route on a layover, what happens regarding withdrawing yourself from duty ? How does this work.
In the specific context of the UK and BALPA - in the event of strike action BALPA usually specifically"instruct" members who are down route to report for duty as rostered by the airline.

Those instructions were reiterated in the information given to BA pilots prior to last week's IA.

If an airline wants to then change the rosters of those down route, e.g. change return dates, that's their call.
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Old 17th Sep 2019, 16:52
  #338 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Originally Posted by RetiredBA/BY View Post
Time for Cruz to go. He took over, or was given an airline to run, which was in good shape hence the 2b profit, no thanks to him. In his brief time he has:
1. reduced to share price to near an all time low.
2. Managed to precipitate the first pilot strike in the airlines “ 100 year “ history with the most incredible solidarity.
3. Has dumbed down the short haul product.
4 Picked up a huge fine, 183 m, for IT incompetence, the biggest penalty ever imposed by the ICO.
5. Managed to precipitate trainers and even managers to resign.
Now, compare that with the superb business performance of the late Sir Colin Marshall, who had the onerous task of vastly reducing staff numbers to get BA into shape, which he and Lord King certainly did. That said, Sir Colin managed to retain the respect of virtually all employees, and I have never heard of any unpleasantness levelled against him.

Its a long time since I was a BA pilot but I am an IAG shareholder, hoping for a nice gain when Cruz leaves as happened when Ayling left.

Time for change.





Worked at BA in the time of King & Marshall. No LCC's then, short haul or long haul, little Gulf carrier premium competition and lousy US carriers. The focus was on product, not remotely the same pressure to tackle costs. Today the airline makes money on short haul (unlike AF/KL & LH) up against LCC's & having taken eye off the ball on the premium end, it falls to current management to put that right. That's underway but takes time for refirbs & new fleet. Also takes funding. Many IT systems probably date back to when I was there so again have to be addressed today when should have been worked on long ago-same as many airlines with legacy systems
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 14:35
  #339 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
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27th September strike action has been called off.
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 16:00
  #340 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
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Originally Posted by eckhard View Post
27th September strike action has been called off.
with the clear understanding that future action will occur if meaningful talks do not take place
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