BA pilots vote to strike
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,022
Likes: 170
From: uk
Can we please get away from debates about flying hours which as everyone should know mean very little in the overall scheme of things. A BA pal of mine tells me he logs hours when he is asleep in the crew rest area for heavens sake !
Pilots at BA do live in a cosseted world but that is not a problem of their own making, it is how that airline and many other flag carriers operate. I flew with many pilots on the 75/76 who would not lift a finger to help out pax,engineers or cabin crew or simply go the extra mile to get the job done and whilst I flew with a significant airline, it certainly was not BA.
Pilots at BA do live in a cosseted world but that is not a problem of their own making, it is how that airline and many other flag carriers operate. I flew with many pilots on the 75/76 who would not lift a finger to help out pax,engineers or cabin crew or simply go the extra mile to get the job done and whilst I flew with a significant airline, it certainly was not BA.
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 241
Likes: 47
From: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Can we please get away from debates about flying hours which as everyone should know mean very little in the overall scheme of things. A BA pal of mine tells me he logs hours when he is asleep in the crew rest area for heavens sake !
Pilots at BA do live in a cosseted world but that is not a problem of their own making, it is how that airline and many other flag carriers operate. I flew with many pilots on the 75/76 who would not lift a finger to help out pax,engineers or cabin crew or simply go the extra mile to get the job done and whilst I flew with a significant airline, it certainly was not BA.
Pilots at BA do live in a cosseted world but that is not a problem of their own making, it is how that airline and many other flag carriers operate. I flew with many pilots on the 75/76 who would not lift a finger to help out pax,engineers or cabin crew or simply go the extra mile to get the job done and whilst I flew with a significant airline, it certainly was not BA.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,022
Likes: 170
From: uk
As I said earlier, total flying hours per se mean little after passing a certain threshold. There often appears to be a certain amount of willy waving with regard to logged flying hours hence a degree of scepticism on my part on the nature of the time being logged.
Being out of the loop for a wee while and regulations do change, may I respectfully ask whether all members of an augmented crew log the whole flying duty period or is it just the aircraft commander.
In the past I have been part of heavy crews who 'rest area' comprised at worst the jump seat and at best a seat in the cabin. The crew rest areas that I have seen, I would agree are not pleasant, though I would be interested to know if some are better than others depending on operator or perhaps newer types of aircraft.
Being out of the loop for a wee while and regulations do change, may I respectfully ask whether all members of an augmented crew log the whole flying duty period or is it just the aircraft commander.
In the past I have been part of heavy crews who 'rest area' comprised at worst the jump seat and at best a seat in the cabin. The crew rest areas that I have seen, I would agree are not pleasant, though I would be interested to know if some are better than others depending on operator or perhaps newer types of aircraft.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Logging hours in the bunk has nothing to do with Total Time qualification. Absolutely none.
It does have lots to do with counting towards 900 total annual and 100 monthly limits. Companies across the industry are already pushing hard to achieve as close to this as possible, any move towards discounting bunk time will utterly destroy quality of life and more importantly safety. You will in effect be adding another 20-30% total flying. You would be talking about moving towards an equivalent 1200-1300 total time a year.
whilst this may give HR and Finance departments a boner, it would be completely and utterly unsafe. Most can’t sleep during their bunk stops and the junior guys usually get the early shift meaning they get no additional rest other than that being away from the flight deck.
Not sure as a 75/76 driver you would realise any of this doing mainly short/medium hail. Longer/ultra longhaul is a different ball game
It does have lots to do with counting towards 900 total annual and 100 monthly limits. Companies across the industry are already pushing hard to achieve as close to this as possible, any move towards discounting bunk time will utterly destroy quality of life and more importantly safety. You will in effect be adding another 20-30% total flying. You would be talking about moving towards an equivalent 1200-1300 total time a year.
whilst this may give HR and Finance departments a boner, it would be completely and utterly unsafe. Most can’t sleep during their bunk stops and the junior guys usually get the early shift meaning they get no additional rest other than that being away from the flight deck.
Not sure as a 75/76 driver you would realise any of this doing mainly short/medium hail. Longer/ultra longhaul is a different ball game
Last edited by VinRouge; 23rd September 2019 at 08:25.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,726
Likes: 103
From: The Winchester
Wot VinRouge said,
Resting in the bunks isn't a given..Many struggle with the task and If you can't sleep in the crew rest area there are few things more unpleasant than staring at the ceiling knowing the clock is ticking down towards changeover time and you are going to be absolutely Christmas crackered in the very near future.
Ultra Long haul isn't the doddle it's often made out to be.
Resting in the bunks isn't a given..Many struggle with the task and If you can't sleep in the crew rest area there are few things more unpleasant than staring at the ceiling knowing the clock is ticking down towards changeover time and you are going to be absolutely Christmas crackered in the very near future.
Ultra Long haul isn't the doddle it's often made out to be.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 125
Likes: 3
From: Europe
Bunks etc
We are all different re sleeping habits etc. A bunk is not a luxury. The one big "luxury" BA has as a career for a pilot is choice. Not as much as there used to be, but you can still fly shorthaul or longhaul and sometimes choose between seats. I wish the guys in BA well. There has to be a benchmark for T&C's. Hopefully they can set it at a high level for the benefit of all.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 10
From: Samsonite Avenue
Now that the dust has settled after the announcement that the industrial action on the 27th has been called off, I am curious to see if it has been well received or is being viewed with some dissatisfaction.
At face value it seems to be a clever move from BALPA. Calling off a strike with the intent to negotiate, sends a clear signal to the outside world as to where the apathy lies, if negotiations are not forthcoming.
At face value it seems to be a clever move from BALPA. Calling off a strike with the intent to negotiate, sends a clear signal to the outside world as to where the apathy lies, if negotiations are not forthcoming.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 64
From: england
I think most of us realise that IAG isn’t going to negotiate in good faith until forced to. I believe BALPA are demonstrating good faith so when the talks fail in a week or so, can go on to announce a complete shutdown of the airline for a couple of weeks and bring IAG to the table with some sensible offers.
But then again, what do I know?
But then again, what do I know?
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,673
Likes: 2
From: Europe
Narrative construction is a full time job.
Working 15 hours a week....(flight time not duty, they never make the distinction)
Resting in a bunk for half the flight....
Generous travel concessions.
The Little Qantas CEO even claimed an A380 Captain makes more than him. With an annual salary of $26 million, somehow a complicit media never even raises an eyebrow.
On it goes, all dreamed up by those at Waterside, who work 0900- 1700, Monday to Friday.
They have their weekends to themselves, take their substance of choice, sleep in their own bed refreshed...
Get all the gazetted public holidays.
Then return for another day, fresh, to paint a picture of a lazy and under employed workforce.
The whole construct relies on envy. That they posses in spades.
Working 15 hours a week....(flight time not duty, they never make the distinction)
Resting in a bunk for half the flight....
Generous travel concessions.
The Little Qantas CEO even claimed an A380 Captain makes more than him. With an annual salary of $26 million, somehow a complicit media never even raises an eyebrow.
On it goes, all dreamed up by those at Waterside, who work 0900- 1700, Monday to Friday.
They have their weekends to themselves, take their substance of choice, sleep in their own bed refreshed...
Get all the gazetted public holidays.
Then return for another day, fresh, to paint a picture of a lazy and under employed workforce.
The whole construct relies on envy. That they posses in spades.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
absolutely. It has nothing to do with education, intelligence, contribution to society, etc. If you work hard and you’re professional... have some self respect and demand the wages you should be paid. Planes don’t fly without pilots (yet) and BA needs planes for their business! It’s actually easier to replace a CEO than a pilot.
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: UK
Planes also don't fly without cabin crew, engineers and a host of other people. Pilots are two a penny, as well as many thinking they are God's gift to aviation.
I suspect pilots will be the first to lose their precious jobs when they are no longer required. Aircraft will still require all the other support personnel.
I suspect pilots will be the first to lose their precious jobs when they are no longer required. Aircraft will still require all the other support personnel.
Joined: Sep 2010
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 884
Likes: 233
From: by the seaside
101917
Nice to read a balanced post from someone with ability.
Guess you failed the knowledge after spending a few years riding around London on a Honda 90 with a clipboard on the handlebars.
Guess you failed the knowledge after spending a few years riding around London on a Honda 90 with a clipboard on the handlebars.
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 163
Likes: 18
From: London
Planes also don't fly without cabin crew, engineers and a host of other people. Pilots are two a penny, as well as many thinking they are God's gift to aviation.
I suspect pilots will be the first to lose their precious jobs when they are no longer required. Aircraft will still require all the other support personnel.
I suspect pilots will be the first to lose their precious jobs when they are no longer required. Aircraft will still require all the other support personnel.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,643
Likes: 0
From: UK
Narrative construction is a full time job.
Working 15 hours a week....(flight time not duty, they never make the distinction)
Resting in a bunk for half the flight....
Generous travel concessions.
The Little Qantas CEO even claimed an A380 Captain makes more than him. With an annual salary of $26 million, somehow a complicit media never even raises an eyebrow.
On it goes, all dreamed up by those at Waterside, who work 0900- 1700, Monday to Friday.
They have their weekends to themselves, take their substance of choice, sleep in their own bed refreshed...
Get all the gazetted public holidays.
Then return for another day, fresh, to paint a picture of a lazy and under employed workforce.
The whole construct relies on envy. That they posses in spades.
Working 15 hours a week....(flight time not duty, they never make the distinction)
Resting in a bunk for half the flight....
Generous travel concessions.
The Little Qantas CEO even claimed an A380 Captain makes more than him. With an annual salary of $26 million, somehow a complicit media never even raises an eyebrow.
On it goes, all dreamed up by those at Waterside, who work 0900- 1700, Monday to Friday.
They have their weekends to themselves, take their substance of choice, sleep in their own bed refreshed...
Get all the gazetted public holidays.
Then return for another day, fresh, to paint a picture of a lazy and under employed workforce.
The whole construct relies on envy. That they posses in spades.
So Rated if you want an Office job - go figure (and take the pay that goes with it)