Do BA pilots really deserve our support re Openskys?
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Now why didn't I think of this earlier...Tandem - you are the weakes link, GOODBYE!
Perfect, PPrune looks like a more normal world already.
Anodyne - that was such a great post, that I think we need reminding of it:
The most important bit, that Tandem and Hand could muse over is:
(thats what a Union means)
Regrettably, I think we all really know what the BA in BALPA actually represents.
Perfect, PPrune looks like a more normal world already.
Anodyne - that was such a great post, that I think we need reminding of it:
Should we support the BA pilots in this - I agree with TLP; unfortunately we probably should - BUT the current situation is partly of the BA CCs own making:
As a ‘rasher’ (ex BACON now working for FlyBe on reduced terms and conditions) Openskies seems a tempting step up that a number of my colleagues will take despite the bleating of BA pilots. Undoubtedly we the BACON pilots were at fault in spinelessly doing nothing while BA sold us and our terms and conditions down the river, but the BA CC, as the biggest and strongest single grouping within BALPA, could have shown leadership on behalf of the wider pilot community, (thats what a Union means) thus gaining general respect and support.
Moral arguments aside this could have been seen as enlightened self interest as the current level of inequality leads to those of us lower down the pecking order grabbing any opportunity that presents - irrespective of what IFALPA say.
In the case of BACON as in so many others (Dan Air, GSS, etc) the BA CC chose the path of narrow self interest and thereby lost the right to preach to the rest of us - you can’t have it both ways and say its your job to look after the BA membership only, and then expect the support of the general membership when it suits you.
It’s also sad to think what this says about BALPA - not so much a union, just a lose federation of individual interest groups most of whom will have to suck hind tit when the BA pilots want to feed.
As a ‘rasher’ (ex BACON now working for FlyBe on reduced terms and conditions) Openskies seems a tempting step up that a number of my colleagues will take despite the bleating of BA pilots. Undoubtedly we the BACON pilots were at fault in spinelessly doing nothing while BA sold us and our terms and conditions down the river, but the BA CC, as the biggest and strongest single grouping within BALPA, could have shown leadership on behalf of the wider pilot community, (thats what a Union means) thus gaining general respect and support.
Moral arguments aside this could have been seen as enlightened self interest as the current level of inequality leads to those of us lower down the pecking order grabbing any opportunity that presents - irrespective of what IFALPA say.
In the case of BACON as in so many others (Dan Air, GSS, etc) the BA CC chose the path of narrow self interest and thereby lost the right to preach to the rest of us - you can’t have it both ways and say its your job to look after the BA membership only, and then expect the support of the general membership when it suits you.
It’s also sad to think what this says about BALPA - not so much a union, just a lose federation of individual interest groups most of whom will have to suck hind tit when the BA pilots want to feed.
The most important bit, that Tandem and Hand could muse over is:
(thats what a Union means)
Regrettably, I think we all really know what the BA in BALPA actually represents.
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I have two people on my 'Ignore List'. It's a useful tool. FWIW, they are Walter Kennedy, and 411A. The reason being that neither of them know what they are talking about!
The problem for you TLP, is that I DO know what I am talking about, because I was there!
You just can't admit that there could possibly be any view other than your own!
The reason you didn't get the mainline access that you clearly so desperately wanted, was because you, (or your CC) weren't prepared to stand on your own two feet, and demand it! You just wanted somebody else to fight the battle for you, because you didn't have any balls!
The one thing that I can't quite get my head round is this: If access to mainline for BACX, was entirely within the gift of the BACC.(They just maliciously denied it to you???) Why is it that even with overwhelming support, and the threat of a damaging strike, the SAME organisation, can't secure access for OS pilots???
Could it POSSIBLY be because access to the MSL is ENTIRELY under the control of British Airways Plc, and actually nothing to do with the BACC??
It's a thought!
Unfortunately you can't read my post (because you prefer not to listen to views which do not tally with your own) and therefore can't answer my question. However, everybody else can read it, and will no doubt draw there own conclusions.
Your loss I'm afraid.
(Sits back to a vision of TLP sticking his fingers firmly in both ears, and singing; "Nah, nah, nah, I can't hear you!")
The problem for you TLP, is that I DO know what I am talking about, because I was there!
You just can't admit that there could possibly be any view other than your own!
The reason you didn't get the mainline access that you clearly so desperately wanted, was because you, (or your CC) weren't prepared to stand on your own two feet, and demand it! You just wanted somebody else to fight the battle for you, because you didn't have any balls!
The one thing that I can't quite get my head round is this: If access to mainline for BACX, was entirely within the gift of the BACC.(They just maliciously denied it to you???) Why is it that even with overwhelming support, and the threat of a damaging strike, the SAME organisation, can't secure access for OS pilots???
Could it POSSIBLY be because access to the MSL is ENTIRELY under the control of British Airways Plc, and actually nothing to do with the BACC??
It's a thought!
Unfortunately you can't read my post (because you prefer not to listen to views which do not tally with your own) and therefore can't answer my question. However, everybody else can read it, and will no doubt draw there own conclusions.
Your loss I'm afraid.
(Sits back to a vision of TLP sticking his fingers firmly in both ears, and singing; "Nah, nah, nah, I can't hear you!")
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We certainly CAN draw our own conclusions.
I conclude you're a single minded, uncompromising blinkered misrepresentative ass!
You never answer a single question you are asked, nor do you address any points you cannot refute. I hope for the sake of BA you are not a typical Nigel.
(I think the current standpoint of Captain Walsh is probably to commence the formation of a more normal group of pilots than the one you purport to be part of, and presumably representative of - it can only be a good thing for the World's Most Arrogant Airline.
I am minded to write to Walsh and tell him firstly that he has my complete support for the project, and secondly that if he paid just a little more, I'd apply for a job as a direct entry TRE!)
I conclude you're a single minded, uncompromising blinkered misrepresentative ass!
You never answer a single question you are asked, nor do you address any points you cannot refute. I hope for the sake of BA you are not a typical Nigel.
(I think the current standpoint of Captain Walsh is probably to commence the formation of a more normal group of pilots than the one you purport to be part of, and presumably representative of - it can only be a good thing for the World's Most Arrogant Airline.
I am minded to write to Walsh and tell him firstly that he has my complete support for the project, and secondly that if he paid just a little more, I'd apply for a job as a direct entry TRE!)
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such a fool that i am i unblocked tandem....couldnt resist seeing what he / she / it had to say in response.
the previous poster is correct, you cannot address any questions directly put to you, you just resort to personal put downs and attacks. you are totally incapable of admitting you are wrong (not a good thing for a pilot)....you pointed the finger straight at me and demanded what I had done as regard to joining mainline..........you spoke before thinking again. I have not been any part of BACX, now knowing the T and C I have no desire to be part of BA, my background is another national flag carrier across the sea WHICH I BATTLED AND WON MY RIGHT TO BE IN MAINLINE. Unfortunately even that was not a satisfactory outcome due to KLM abusing the selection process and rejecting many good people. The terms and conditions there are far superior to BA (check out on PPJN) perhaps you at BA would like to use KLM / AirFrance terms and conditions as a benchmark? But then that's now making me look arrogant and superior which I am not. Tandem you really have to stop this self destruct phase you are going through and stop using PPRUNE to vent your venom. Please for your own sake and those of your colleagues think before you post and accept that others may have a different slant on things, it really doesn't make them bad people.
Edited to add; i have removed my post earlier where i used inappropriate language in anger towards you tandem, much as you frustrate me it was wrong.
the previous poster is correct, you cannot address any questions directly put to you, you just resort to personal put downs and attacks. you are totally incapable of admitting you are wrong (not a good thing for a pilot)....you pointed the finger straight at me and demanded what I had done as regard to joining mainline..........you spoke before thinking again. I have not been any part of BACX, now knowing the T and C I have no desire to be part of BA, my background is another national flag carrier across the sea WHICH I BATTLED AND WON MY RIGHT TO BE IN MAINLINE. Unfortunately even that was not a satisfactory outcome due to KLM abusing the selection process and rejecting many good people. The terms and conditions there are far superior to BA (check out on PPJN) perhaps you at BA would like to use KLM / AirFrance terms and conditions as a benchmark? But then that's now making me look arrogant and superior which I am not. Tandem you really have to stop this self destruct phase you are going through and stop using PPRUNE to vent your venom. Please for your own sake and those of your colleagues think before you post and accept that others may have a different slant on things, it really doesn't make them bad people.
Edited to add; i have removed my post earlier where i used inappropriate language in anger towards you tandem, much as you frustrate me it was wrong.
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This message is hidden because................Peace!!!
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I have control!
bluepilot, it's suddenly all worth while!
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I have control!
bluepilot, it's suddenly all worth while!
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bluepilot
I don't believe I have ever said you were BACX. I have always known who you work for. I absolutely, and unreservedly congratulate you for 'battling' to join mainline:
I know you were balloted for strike action, and posted your reply 'by return'. Well done, that is precisely what I did! Sometimes you have to be prepared to down the tools to achieve what you want. In other words, and as I have previously stated, "take responsibility for your own situation."
In fairness to TLP, he wasn't given the opportunity to strike for what he wanted. I can see how he might criticise his own CC for that situation, but feel it is disingenuous in the extreme, to blame BA pilots, and their CC!
As for "bad people", I cannot claim to know who TLP is, though I believe we may have been at the same base. However, without fail every BACX pilot I flew with, and the overwhelming majority I met, were great people.
They WERE shafted. I WOULD have supported them given the opportunity! TLP and I just disagree about who was responsible.
I'm sure we would all agree over far more than we disagree. It's simply different points of view, that's all.
Perhaps TLP is too immature to handle a different point of view?
"Nah, nah, nah, I can't hear you!"
(I left the playground behind some considerable number of years ago!)
I don't believe I have ever said you were BACX. I have always known who you work for. I absolutely, and unreservedly congratulate you for 'battling' to join mainline:
WHICH I BATTLED AND WON MY RIGHT TO BE IN MAINLINE
In fairness to TLP, he wasn't given the opportunity to strike for what he wanted. I can see how he might criticise his own CC for that situation, but feel it is disingenuous in the extreme, to blame BA pilots, and their CC!
As for "bad people", I cannot claim to know who TLP is, though I believe we may have been at the same base. However, without fail every BACX pilot I flew with, and the overwhelming majority I met, were great people.
They WERE shafted. I WOULD have supported them given the opportunity! TLP and I just disagree about who was responsible.
I'm sure we would all agree over far more than we disagree. It's simply different points of view, that's all.
Perhaps TLP is too immature to handle a different point of view?
"Nah, nah, nah, I can't hear you!"
(I left the playground behind some considerable number of years ago!)
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Different points of view are on thing tandem, trying to bully others and discredit them is quite another:
to quote you quoting me :
""Quote:
It is also healthy that some pains from the past are discussed, people then hopefully learn from these mistakes and injustices to help to a better future
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From where I'm standing, there were few mistakes, just a load of folks, who were not prepared to stand up for themselves, and now bellyache about the fact that those nasty BA pilots wouldn't fight their battles for them!
Sooner or later people have to take responsibility for their own situations.
If you wanted to be mainline, what did you do about it?""
To me that looks by implication you considered me to be BACX!
You also state that "you know what you are talking about because you were there" regarding BACX, a quick look into your history as far back as 2004 i see that you were a member of the queens flying club, therefore you were not there for the full term at least!! but you do say you flew with them? have i really missed something here tandem? Dates dont seem to add up.
Finally we do agree on something, they were shafted!
I think this pointless bashing has gone quite far enough, lets get back to the subject.......BA pilots still do have my support.
to quote you quoting me :
""Quote:
It is also healthy that some pains from the past are discussed, people then hopefully learn from these mistakes and injustices to help to a better future
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From where I'm standing, there were few mistakes, just a load of folks, who were not prepared to stand up for themselves, and now bellyache about the fact that those nasty BA pilots wouldn't fight their battles for them!
Sooner or later people have to take responsibility for their own situations.
If you wanted to be mainline, what did you do about it?""
To me that looks by implication you considered me to be BACX!
You also state that "you know what you are talking about because you were there" regarding BACX, a quick look into your history as far back as 2004 i see that you were a member of the queens flying club, therefore you were not there for the full term at least!! but you do say you flew with them? have i really missed something here tandem? Dates dont seem to add up.
Finally we do agree on something, they were shafted!
I think this pointless bashing has gone quite far enough, lets get back to the subject.......BA pilots still do have my support.
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The reason you didn't get the mainline access that you clearly so desperately wanted, was because you, (or your CC) weren't prepared to stand on your own two feet, and demand it!
Why is it that even with overwhelming support, and the threat of a damaging strike, the SAME organisation, can't secure access for OS pilots???
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bluepilot
I never intended to imply you were BACX, I always knew you were not. I intended the general meaning of "you" and not the specific.
I would not claim to have been there, if I was not!
I never intended to imply you were BACX, I always knew you were not. I intended the general meaning of "you" and not the specific.
I would not claim to have been there, if I was not!
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Walter "Tandem" Mitty
You - (Tandemrotor) - also state that "you know what you are talking about because you were there" regarding BACX, a quick look into your history as far back as 2004 i see that you were a member of the queens flying club, therefore you were not there for the full term at least!! but you do say you flew with them? have i really missed something here tandem? Dates dont seem to add up.
Interesting observation bluepilot, I see what you mean. Tandem first appears around 2004, claiming to be an ex SF Chinook pilot. His posts from that era certainly seem a little more measured, controlled and logical than his present ones, but then again, maybe that's what a few years in BA do for you.
What I find remarkable is the consistent cr@p and sh1t he spouts now, because he would have swiftly become and remained the Squadron SLJO on any of the outfits I flew with (Both dark and light blue!) He would never have got much past Pilot Officer rank (or actually even attained a commission) given the degree of maturity he seems to like to display. I find his credibility more than a little strained given that he first appears in 2004, yet somehow claims to have taken part in the BACX/Connect debacle.
Perhaps he was fast-tracked to command having had his qualities recognised by BA management? What do you think?
Still, there are a lot of people on here who pretend, and assume the cloak of careers they wish they'd been good enough for. (But maybe the Air Force still had Sergeant-Pilots in TR's day?)
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Lots of people in BA are still members of the Queens flying club whilst flying for BA. I believe they are called reservists. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but TR is and was exactly what he says.
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Just goes to show even Adastral got it wrong on occasion. Interesting quote from TR circa the past, I think we can all see where he's coming from, and how he was motivated in terms of stealing and retaining a command from the BACX boys and girls.
In fact, come to think of it, I now believe I know who Sergeant Pilot TR is - I recall a certain Secondee snagging the inertial reel on his seatbelt in....hmm, I believe it was Madrid. Long story, but if I recollect correctly, he had it repaired, and then tested in it in front of the gingerbeer so thoroughly that he knackered it completely. Didn't wish to fly home in the locked position, so the aircraft and the sector were grounded for 24 hours while a new belt was flown out. New Captains eh?
And you wonder why they can't run a terminal....... never mind an airline!
To put my cards on the table, I am mainline, longhaul with a real desire to return to the regions. I will almost certainly take a pay cut to do so! Should that be a problem for anyone? I have to say that from where I am, Hands Solo speaks for many of us.
For those BACE guys already in BHX flying the Embraer, you should be aware that a small minority of your number are already creating a big impact with their arrogant, rude and intolerant attitudes when working with BA cabin crew. Maybe a few of you do have all the qualities for mainline after all .
For those BACE guys already in BHX flying the Embraer, you should be aware that a small minority of your number are already creating a big impact with their arrogant, rude and intolerant attitudes when working with BA cabin crew. Maybe a few of you do have all the qualities for mainline after all .
In fact, come to think of it, I now believe I know who Sergeant Pilot TR is - I recall a certain Secondee snagging the inertial reel on his seatbelt in....hmm, I believe it was Madrid. Long story, but if I recollect correctly, he had it repaired, and then tested in it in front of the gingerbeer so thoroughly that he knackered it completely. Didn't wish to fly home in the locked position, so the aircraft and the sector were grounded for 24 hours while a new belt was flown out. New Captains eh?
And you wonder why they can't run a terminal....... never mind an airline!
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Do you mean 'stealing' back one of those commands that BACX stole from BAR? Remind me who was flying BHX-MAD the year before?
Incidentally, will we be seeing an apology for this comment
now that your Poirot like detective skills have been revealed to be mistaken?
Incidentally, will we be seeing an apology for this comment
there are a lot of people on here who pretend, and assume the cloak of careers they wish they'd been good enough for
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What makes you think anyone believes YOU any more than your so-called colleague? After all, you are BA.
If he wants to be believed, let's have a CV, name/rank/number, if not, well, I suppose this IS a rumour network!
I see there's no refuting the seatbelt story - I remember another of you guys grounding the jet because there were no wipes for the headsets! You couldn't make this stuff up.
If he wants to be believed, let's have a CV, name/rank/number, if not, well, I suppose this IS a rumour network!
I see there's no refuting the seatbelt story - I remember another of you guys grounding the jet because there were no wipes for the headsets! You couldn't make this stuff up.
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You don't have to believe me, but if you are ex-mob you'd at least understand the concept of reserve service, and the ability to fly for an airline and serve the country over the same period of time. I mean you weren't making that up about your service were you? Now how about you tell us about those tailstrikes?
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A very good example of taking a small part of someones posting history on pprune and twisting it in an attmpt to discredit the poster, something mr tandemrotor has done on a regular basis. Perhaps this small example will teach tandem that is is dangerous to go down these lines to bully and discredit people, I hope the lesson has been learned. PPRUNE is a great medium for discussion and debate, abuse should never be tolerated.
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Perhaps this small example will teach tandem
For those BACE guys already in BHX flying the Embraer, you should be aware that a small minority of your number are already creating a big impact with their arrogant, rude and intolerant attitudes when working with BA cabin crew. Maybe a few of you do have all the qualities for mainline after all .
Mike Mercury
"Stealing a command"! - You're hilarious!
As for CV, name/rank/number...
I can do much better than that. Just send me a pm, and I'll meet up if you like?
No? Thought not!
By the way, can't help you with the inertia reel story. But then so much of your accusations are ignorant speculation, it's hardly surprising!
Mike Mercury wrote:
1. BACEX and GB etc etc are perfectly placed to make a good return on these same routes.
And the next one please!!
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Fortunately Tandem is someone who I don't have to read any more. HURRAH!
Handyboy - you're on thin ice there - should we discuss the secondees who scraped the RJ tails, or should we discuss the Secondee Training Captain who nearly piled one in by retracting flaps when the F/O called for the gear?
Careful my friend, not sure how much more mailine washing there is to come out of this, but it's your call!
Handyboy - you're on thin ice there - should we discuss the secondees who scraped the RJ tails, or should we discuss the Secondee Training Captain who nearly piled one in by retracting flaps when the F/O called for the gear?
Careful my friend, not sure how much more mailine washing there is to come out of this, but it's your call!
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to Sergeant Tandem:
bluepilot goes up in my estimation with every post.
He said:
twisting it in an attempt to discredit the poster, something mr tandemrotor has done on a regular basis. Perhaps this small example will teach tandem that is is dangerous to go down these lines to bully and discredit people, I hope the lesson has been learned.
There you go sport, read em and weep! Anyone who had to work with your disgruntled and workshy cabin crew of that period will entirely understand the inherent contradiction in your comment. I'm sure they picked all there mannerisms and habits up from their former 'colleagues"
It really is light comedy relief dealing with you Tandem, SLJO was probably something to which you aspired! I doubt you've ever taken lessons from anyone, you're too far up your stern orifice to listen. Ahhhh - maybe it was YOU who scraped one of our tails!, lol, trying to practice a tactical landing and getting it badly wrong eh!
He said:
twisting it in an attempt to discredit the poster, something mr tandemrotor has done on a regular basis. Perhaps this small example will teach tandem that is is dangerous to go down these lines to bully and discredit people, I hope the lesson has been learned.
There you go sport, read em and weep! Anyone who had to work with your disgruntled and workshy cabin crew of that period will entirely understand the inherent contradiction in your comment. I'm sure they picked all there mannerisms and habits up from their former 'colleagues"
It really is light comedy relief dealing with you Tandem, SLJO was probably something to which you aspired! I doubt you've ever taken lessons from anyone, you're too far up your stern orifice to listen. Ahhhh - maybe it was YOU who scraped one of our tails!, lol, trying to practice a tactical landing and getting it badly wrong eh!