Do BA pilots really deserve our support re Openskys?
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: South Coast
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Certainly.
We had only had company recognition of BALPA for a very short period of time, we had just integrated three airline identities into one with all the problems associated with that, we had a succession of BALPA head office assigned personnel changes and were basically new to the whole union thing.
We had expected help, assistance and advice from BACC, perhaps it was a mistake, but the majority of the agendae of the meetings and presentations (with one or two individual's notable exceptions) at that time were aimed (possibly understandably from their perspective) solely at securing the preservation of BAR pilots Ts, Cs and lifestyle. BACX was regarded as "Plastic BA" which irritated a number of senior and exceptionally well qualified personnel in BRAL, Brymon and Manx - this confusion spread throughout the membership and did not facilitate amity or progress at the meeting table. BACC simply would not discuss any seniority list issues, far less support them.
Quite possibly, and obviously I am now into speculation rather than history, had BACC extended assistance, seriously helpful advice and support as we knew they had with Cityflyer Mk 1, it might have been very different. The really odd thing was that the incoming BA DFO actually DID support the BACX CC aspirations for many things at the beginning, and was enthusiastic about us working with BACC.
Anyway, it was not to be. The BACC offer for the RJ/146 pilots must have designed by a political illiterate, there was no possibility of it ever being sold to the BACX workforce. Even with positively spun hindsight, the Emb and TP fleets would never have voted for it, hence there was no possibility of it ever being recommended. Regrettably, rightly or wrongly, it was perceived as more of the 'Plastic BA' attitude and as I recall what few cordial relations there were broke down quite swiftly after that. Also at that stage, as the fleet changes, base changes, management changes, total airline format changes gathered pace, there was simply no possibility of concentrating on any one issue, and to have recommended a strike ballot would have been meaningless as the day to day change, disruption and individual concerns were over riding. I would suggest that to push through a serious threat of industrial action, a totally united and focussed workforce is require, and for a variety of reasons, after BA became the owner of BACX, this was never achieved at any level - which was particularly irritating because the cultures within Manx, BRAL, and Brymon were actually mature albeit different.
I doubt if it was actually grand strategy on the part of BA or BACC which caused it all, I don't believe anyone was (or is) that clever. Certainly the BACX CC made mistakes, but they were largely errors of judgement due to complete inexperience in role. Nobody's fault, nobody was supposed or required to help out with advice and support, but I think there was great surprise on the BACX side that we were treated as "Plastic BA" by people we had initially considered to be new colleagues. Perhaps an expectation that BALPA would be a broader church on BA Group issues than proved to be the case.
Hope that helps a little, a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. Pilots are peculiar creatures, there are still Thomsonfly pilots not happy about the Orion seniority issues, there are FCA pilots unhappy about the UK Leisure issues, there are even ex Manx pilots still unhappy about the Loganair seniority issues, and there isn't a Manx Airline any more!
Quocunque Jeceris Stabit!
We had only had company recognition of BALPA for a very short period of time, we had just integrated three airline identities into one with all the problems associated with that, we had a succession of BALPA head office assigned personnel changes and were basically new to the whole union thing.
We had expected help, assistance and advice from BACC, perhaps it was a mistake, but the majority of the agendae of the meetings and presentations (with one or two individual's notable exceptions) at that time were aimed (possibly understandably from their perspective) solely at securing the preservation of BAR pilots Ts, Cs and lifestyle. BACX was regarded as "Plastic BA" which irritated a number of senior and exceptionally well qualified personnel in BRAL, Brymon and Manx - this confusion spread throughout the membership and did not facilitate amity or progress at the meeting table. BACC simply would not discuss any seniority list issues, far less support them.
Quite possibly, and obviously I am now into speculation rather than history, had BACC extended assistance, seriously helpful advice and support as we knew they had with Cityflyer Mk 1, it might have been very different. The really odd thing was that the incoming BA DFO actually DID support the BACX CC aspirations for many things at the beginning, and was enthusiastic about us working with BACC.
Anyway, it was not to be. The BACC offer for the RJ/146 pilots must have designed by a political illiterate, there was no possibility of it ever being sold to the BACX workforce. Even with positively spun hindsight, the Emb and TP fleets would never have voted for it, hence there was no possibility of it ever being recommended. Regrettably, rightly or wrongly, it was perceived as more of the 'Plastic BA' attitude and as I recall what few cordial relations there were broke down quite swiftly after that. Also at that stage, as the fleet changes, base changes, management changes, total airline format changes gathered pace, there was simply no possibility of concentrating on any one issue, and to have recommended a strike ballot would have been meaningless as the day to day change, disruption and individual concerns were over riding. I would suggest that to push through a serious threat of industrial action, a totally united and focussed workforce is require, and for a variety of reasons, after BA became the owner of BACX, this was never achieved at any level - which was particularly irritating because the cultures within Manx, BRAL, and Brymon were actually mature albeit different.
I doubt if it was actually grand strategy on the part of BA or BACC which caused it all, I don't believe anyone was (or is) that clever. Certainly the BACX CC made mistakes, but they were largely errors of judgement due to complete inexperience in role. Nobody's fault, nobody was supposed or required to help out with advice and support, but I think there was great surprise on the BACX side that we were treated as "Plastic BA" by people we had initially considered to be new colleagues. Perhaps an expectation that BALPA would be a broader church on BA Group issues than proved to be the case.
Hope that helps a little, a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. Pilots are peculiar creatures, there are still Thomsonfly pilots not happy about the Orion seniority issues, there are FCA pilots unhappy about the UK Leisure issues, there are even ex Manx pilots still unhappy about the Loganair seniority issues, and there isn't a Manx Airline any more!
Quocunque Jeceris Stabit!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nova
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you, that is helpful and if I may say, an entirely understandable assessment.
One follow up question. When did the BACX CC request specific assistance from the BA CC (on ANY issues), and if it was denied, then on what grounds?
Thanks again.
TR
One follow up question. When did the BACX CC request specific assistance from the BA CC (on ANY issues), and if it was denied, then on what grounds?
Thanks again.
TR
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: South Coast
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would think you'd have to check the minutes for exactly what was said and by whom. Given the vagaries of this forum, unless I got it word perfect, I would be flamed, and as I mentioned earlier, I have no wish to comment - at least not in a way that takes sides.
In parenthesis, my opinion would be that the BACX CC were enthusiastic and keen to become part of BA. I think we all saw it as part of a great adventure - we'd been bought by the world's favourite, surely that had to be a good thing? Perhaps the BACC perceived this as being brash and impressionable, gauche even - I really don't know. I don't actually remember things ever getting as far as a formal request for help; certainly any interface where BACX movement onto the seniority list was discussed just resulted in what were seen initially as postponements, then put-downs. The impression was that we were a nuisance, and had been responsible for the demise of BAR - which was far more important. Again, with 20/20 hindsight, perhaps it was all a great misunderstanding. The endgame was BA management telling us it was up to BACC, and BACC saying it was up to management. We became disappointed and cynical, particularly because all the concessions were one-way, secondees, commands etc etc and rightly or wrongly some of our number decided we were being taken for a ride. Eventual pressure and repitition resulted in the RJ/146 offer. Coincidentally, if I remember aright, there were no CC reps from those Fleets, but even if there had been, I doubt it would have made any difference.
As a CC, we grew up quickly - I think it's a shame BA mainline guys here denigrate the BACX CC - it was no coincidence that nobody was voted off.The only changes over the next couple of years were people standing down for personal reasons - I know one was actually virtually pushed into a medical retirement, and another arguably hounded out following an MOR incident. Yet another mysteriously failed a Command Course. The BA management (who I think just danced as the strings were pulled from London) became much more authoritarian and unco-operative; there was so much work to do that seniority became a back burner, or even a dead duck to mix my metaphors. I don't believe there was ever any substantive opposition to what we did through that period, in fact quite the opposite.
Not one of the most relaxed periods of my life! Happier days now.
In parenthesis, my opinion would be that the BACX CC were enthusiastic and keen to become part of BA. I think we all saw it as part of a great adventure - we'd been bought by the world's favourite, surely that had to be a good thing? Perhaps the BACC perceived this as being brash and impressionable, gauche even - I really don't know. I don't actually remember things ever getting as far as a formal request for help; certainly any interface where BACX movement onto the seniority list was discussed just resulted in what were seen initially as postponements, then put-downs. The impression was that we were a nuisance, and had been responsible for the demise of BAR - which was far more important. Again, with 20/20 hindsight, perhaps it was all a great misunderstanding. The endgame was BA management telling us it was up to BACC, and BACC saying it was up to management. We became disappointed and cynical, particularly because all the concessions were one-way, secondees, commands etc etc and rightly or wrongly some of our number decided we were being taken for a ride. Eventual pressure and repitition resulted in the RJ/146 offer. Coincidentally, if I remember aright, there were no CC reps from those Fleets, but even if there had been, I doubt it would have made any difference.
As a CC, we grew up quickly - I think it's a shame BA mainline guys here denigrate the BACX CC - it was no coincidence that nobody was voted off.The only changes over the next couple of years were people standing down for personal reasons - I know one was actually virtually pushed into a medical retirement, and another arguably hounded out following an MOR incident. Yet another mysteriously failed a Command Course. The BA management (who I think just danced as the strings were pulled from London) became much more authoritarian and unco-operative; there was so much work to do that seniority became a back burner, or even a dead duck to mix my metaphors. I don't believe there was ever any substantive opposition to what we did through that period, in fact quite the opposite.
Not one of the most relaxed periods of my life! Happier days now.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I tend to agree with Jack's a dull boy.
BA Pilots are taking commands from GSS First Officers because of BALPA.
As far as im aware GSS is owned by Atlas Air and was only set up to keep the UK CAA and the Unions happy.
GSS fly freight for other companys and only have some of their aircraft in BA colours.
So why do BA pilots not support the First Officers of GSS and let them have the commands they have earned ?
When DHL started flying freight charters for BA a few years back, in EX BA 757s , there were BA F/Os on PRUNE asking about the possibilities of getting direct entry commands at DHL.
BA is not the bench mark for all other airlines, when the lesser airlines of the world can't get pilots, they improve their terms and conditions, they don't ring the BA CC and ask whats going on at BA, If they did have BA,s terms and conditions they'd go bankrupt pretty quick.
Pilots never stay together as a group they don't support each other, BA pilots are proof of that at GSS, will BA pilots come out in support of say Silver Jet pilots if they were to go on strike, I don't think so.
Good Luck to you all.
BA Pilots are taking commands from GSS First Officers because of BALPA.
As far as im aware GSS is owned by Atlas Air and was only set up to keep the UK CAA and the Unions happy.
GSS fly freight for other companys and only have some of their aircraft in BA colours.
So why do BA pilots not support the First Officers of GSS and let them have the commands they have earned ?
When DHL started flying freight charters for BA a few years back, in EX BA 757s , there were BA F/Os on PRUNE asking about the possibilities of getting direct entry commands at DHL.
BA is not the bench mark for all other airlines, when the lesser airlines of the world can't get pilots, they improve their terms and conditions, they don't ring the BA CC and ask whats going on at BA, If they did have BA,s terms and conditions they'd go bankrupt pretty quick.
Pilots never stay together as a group they don't support each other, BA pilots are proof of that at GSS, will BA pilots come out in support of say Silver Jet pilots if they were to go on strike, I don't think so.
Good Luck to you all.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nova
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will support ANYONE who has the cojones to down the tools!
I just don't remember any of the afore mentioned groups actually doing it.
That's all.
And Devanious: Your first posting under THIS name???
Your phrasing reminds me somewhat of a contributor by the name of Min Drag, who we know has taken a position at OL.
Strange!
I just don't remember any of the afore mentioned groups actually doing it.
That's all.
And Devanious: Your first posting under THIS name???
Your phrasing reminds me somewhat of a contributor by the name of Min Drag, who we know has taken a position at OL.
Strange!
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GSS fly freight for other companys and only have some of their aircraft in BA colours.
will BA pilots come out in support of say Silver Jet pilots if they were to go on strike, I don't think so.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: time2time
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Previously I posted this:
My intention was to point out that there are a few individuals here on Pprune doing the 3,000 or so BA pilots an injustice with their attitude and leave it at that but it obviously touched a nerve in the way that the truth often does.
Tandemrotor - I think your two rotors are producing some weird harmonics cos you are totally wrong about me, however I must thank you for proving the point I was making.
I genuinely have absolutely no idea who the hell Delvanious is - perhaps the moderators or Delvanious himself could help here? I don't even know what GSS is let alone be able to give an opinion on it.
I can also assure you that just because you made a connection with me wanting to move to France (which didn't happen), does not mean I have a job with Openskies. I'm sorry you'll have to throw your "scab" abuse elsewhere, I most certainly do not have a job with Openskies and am in fact happily employed elsewhere. Back to detective school for you Sherlock.
The last time you made it personal and posted about me you went back and edited it later. Are you gonna do the same to this one in an attempt to stop yourself looking the a**e you clearly are?
BTW best of luck to the huge majority of BA pilots - none of us want or deserve an erosion of T's & C's.
MD
Do BA pilots really deserve our support re Openskys?
Good question - overall I think in the interests of the industry as a whole the answer has to be yes.
That said, IMHO, there are one or two individuals posting on Pprune who are doing an injustice to their cause.
Any attempts at intimidation here do not do the majority of BA pilots any favours. Start calling people "Scabs" (charming term from the dark ages) if you must once you've got yourself a strike action. At the moment intimidation is likely to lose you support and harden the resolve of those considering Openskies.
The T's & C's offered by Openskies may not be as good as what's on offer at BA but the stark reality is compared to quite a few other companies they're not bad. The fact is people will be interested and apply no matter what is posted here.
There also seems to be an arrogance over the qualifications/selection into mainstream BA compared to OS. This is not helped wth quotes from BALPA spokesmen, like:
"This is going to create flight crews that are not as well-trained and experienced as those currently employed - it's a major problem."
and other references to less able/qualified pilots.
What unsubstantiated rubbish this is arrogant and insulting to the rest of the pilot community. There are plenty of excellent pilots around who chose not to apply to BA or even attended Cranebank and didn't quite fit their mould.
MD
Good question - overall I think in the interests of the industry as a whole the answer has to be yes.
That said, IMHO, there are one or two individuals posting on Pprune who are doing an injustice to their cause.
Any attempts at intimidation here do not do the majority of BA pilots any favours. Start calling people "Scabs" (charming term from the dark ages) if you must once you've got yourself a strike action. At the moment intimidation is likely to lose you support and harden the resolve of those considering Openskies.
The T's & C's offered by Openskies may not be as good as what's on offer at BA but the stark reality is compared to quite a few other companies they're not bad. The fact is people will be interested and apply no matter what is posted here.
There also seems to be an arrogance over the qualifications/selection into mainstream BA compared to OS. This is not helped wth quotes from BALPA spokesmen, like:
"This is going to create flight crews that are not as well-trained and experienced as those currently employed - it's a major problem."
and other references to less able/qualified pilots.
What unsubstantiated rubbish this is arrogant and insulting to the rest of the pilot community. There are plenty of excellent pilots around who chose not to apply to BA or even attended Cranebank and didn't quite fit their mould.
MD
Tandemrotor - I think your two rotors are producing some weird harmonics cos you are totally wrong about me, however I must thank you for proving the point I was making.
I genuinely have absolutely no idea who the hell Delvanious is - perhaps the moderators or Delvanious himself could help here? I don't even know what GSS is let alone be able to give an opinion on it.
I can also assure you that just because you made a connection with me wanting to move to France (which didn't happen), does not mean I have a job with Openskies. I'm sorry you'll have to throw your "scab" abuse elsewhere, I most certainly do not have a job with Openskies and am in fact happily employed elsewhere. Back to detective school for you Sherlock.
The last time you made it personal and posted about me you went back and edited it later. Are you gonna do the same to this one in an attempt to stop yourself looking the a**e you clearly are?
BTW best of luck to the huge majority of BA pilots - none of us want or deserve an erosion of T's & C's.
MD
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to agree having been a victim of tandems personal attempts to discredit myself.
Tandem just because someone does not have the same view as yourself does not mean that you should launch a personal attack on them by trying to discredit them, it does you and your cause no favours at all.
Sensible debate is healthy however.
I am glad most pilots who have entered this debate have shown their support for our BA collegues. It is also healthy that some pains from the past are discussed, people then hopefully learn from these mistakes and injustices to help to a better future............but then i always was an ideallist!
Tandem just because someone does not have the same view as yourself does not mean that you should launch a personal attack on them by trying to discredit them, it does you and your cause no favours at all.
Sensible debate is healthy however.
I am glad most pilots who have entered this debate have shown their support for our BA collegues. It is also healthy that some pains from the past are discussed, people then hopefully learn from these mistakes and injustices to help to a better future............but then i always was an ideallist!
Last edited by bluepilot; 28th Mar 2008 at 21:09.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: time2time
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey bluepilot, are you me? Or maybe I'm you or maybe we're both Delvanious? You must have a job with Openskies. Maybe we all live in France, are all "scabs" and all have a job with Openskies. Lucky Openskies!!
Fortunately we all know that Double Whirling Washing Rotor doesn't represent your average BA mate.
MD OS DHL BMI RFA FRA RAF RN Wocker Wocker BA SN over yer shoulder paranoia cx ur six in yer wardrobe
Best of luck (despite Tandem) to the BA crowd.
Fortunately we all know that Double Whirling Washing Rotor doesn't represent your average BA mate.
MD OS DHL BMI RFA FRA RAF RN Wocker Wocker BA SN over yer shoulder paranoia cx ur six in yer wardrobe
Best of luck (despite Tandem) to the BA crowd.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MinDrag said about Tandem:
Heavens above, now you'll get no peace - but a bl00dy good comment. Quite accurate. It's an interesting point to note that the recall actions of Hand, Tandem and a few others, immediately on sensing any imagined, factually based criticism is to launch an Exocet. Really does nothing for your credibility or your case, it's counter-productive.
Bluepilot and MinDrag - nope, you're both working for BRAL, and I'm the launch A380 customer......LONG LIVE DELVANIOUS!!!!
Fact remains, BA pilots do not DESERVE our support or sympathy, but our own interests militate that we give it.
an attempt to stop yourself looking the a**e you clearly are?
Bluepilot and MinDrag - nope, you're both working for BRAL, and I'm the launch A380 customer......LONG LIVE DELVANIOUS!!!!
Fact remains, BA pilots do not DESERVE our support or sympathy, but our own interests militate that we give it.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nova
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is also healthy that some pains from the past are discussed, people then hopefully learn from these mistakes and injustices to help to a better future
Sooner or later people have to take responsibility for their own situations.
If you wanted to be mainline, what did you do about it?
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Should we support the BA pilots in this - I agree with TLP; unfortunately we probably should - BUT the current situation is partly of the BA CCs own making:
As a ‘rasher’ (ex BACON now working for FlyBe on reduced terms and conditions) Openskies seems a tempting step up that a number of my colleagues will take despite the bleating of BA pilots. Undoubtedly we the BACON pilots were at fault in spinelessly doing nothing while BA sold us and our terms and conditions down the river, but the BA CC, as the biggest and strongest single grouping within BALPA, could have shown leadership on behalf of the wider pilot community, (thats what a Union means) thus gaining general respect and support.
Moral arguments aside this could have been seen as enlightened self interest as the current level of inequality leads to those of us lower down the pecking order grabbing any opportunity that presents - irrespective of what IFALPA say.
In the case of BACON as in so many others (Dan Air, GSS, etc) the BA CC chose the path of narrow self interest and thereby lost the right to preach to the rest of us - you can’t have it both ways and say its your job to look after the BA membership only, and then expect the support of the general membership when it suits you.
It’s also sad to think what this says about BALPA - not so much a union, just a lose federation of individual interest groups most of whom will have to suck hind tit when the BA pilots want to feed.
As a ‘rasher’ (ex BACON now working for FlyBe on reduced terms and conditions) Openskies seems a tempting step up that a number of my colleagues will take despite the bleating of BA pilots. Undoubtedly we the BACON pilots were at fault in spinelessly doing nothing while BA sold us and our terms and conditions down the river, but the BA CC, as the biggest and strongest single grouping within BALPA, could have shown leadership on behalf of the wider pilot community, (thats what a Union means) thus gaining general respect and support.
Moral arguments aside this could have been seen as enlightened self interest as the current level of inequality leads to those of us lower down the pecking order grabbing any opportunity that presents - irrespective of what IFALPA say.
In the case of BACON as in so many others (Dan Air, GSS, etc) the BA CC chose the path of narrow self interest and thereby lost the right to preach to the rest of us - you can’t have it both ways and say its your job to look after the BA membership only, and then expect the support of the general membership when it suits you.
It’s also sad to think what this says about BALPA - not so much a union, just a lose federation of individual interest groups most of whom will have to suck hind tit when the BA pilots want to feed.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
oh god your at it again tandem, "from where i am standing there were few mistakes" and with that attitude you expect others to support your cause??? what an idiot, you are really harming your cause here pal.
What i did was fight it and I AM MAINLINE but not british airways.. KLM
again you have made yourself look a right arse! go on edit your comment! or maybe just maybe you have the GUTS to appologise?
What i did was fight it and I AM MAINLINE but not british airways.. KLM
again you have made yourself look a right arse! go on edit your comment! or maybe just maybe you have the GUTS to appologise?
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nova
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apologise for telling the truth?
There's a novelty.
Actually bluepilot, it is you who may like to edit your post. I generally find p*ss poor spelling, and punctuation, tends to detract from the overall message!
There's a novelty.
Actually bluepilot, it is you who may like to edit your post. I generally find p*ss poor spelling, and punctuation, tends to detract from the overall message!
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: time2time
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tandem, come on why aren't you responding to me? You make accusations you can't substantiate and then go off at someone else trying to divert the flack.
It was me, not bluepilot, who noticed you editing posts after you obviously sobered up! I intended to make the one post and leave it but you made this far to personal.
If you want to accuse me of being someone I'm not and I respond where's your spine? At least have the decency to defend your accusation and support the grounds on which you make it.
Who cares if Bluepilot alias me (and anyone else the voices in your sad head are telling you) are making spelling mistakes, it doesn't matter. You have no credibility and have brought any/all criticism upon yourself due to your arrogant, selfish, bombastic attitude.
Do yourself (and most of your colleagues) a favour and disappear.
MD
PS anyone reading this who thinks I'm being harsh please take the time to read thro' this thread to understand that I posted my opinion once a few days ago and was personally attacked by this individual and have had enough of his attempts at bullying & intimidation.
If his attitude represents that of the BA majority then good luck to Openskies and those that choose to go there to put the coffers in the bank to support their family's.
It was me, not bluepilot, who noticed you editing posts after you obviously sobered up! I intended to make the one post and leave it but you made this far to personal.
If you want to accuse me of being someone I'm not and I respond where's your spine? At least have the decency to defend your accusation and support the grounds on which you make it.
Who cares if Bluepilot alias me (and anyone else the voices in your sad head are telling you) are making spelling mistakes, it doesn't matter. You have no credibility and have brought any/all criticism upon yourself due to your arrogant, selfish, bombastic attitude.
Do yourself (and most of your colleagues) a favour and disappear.
MD
PS anyone reading this who thinks I'm being harsh please take the time to read thro' this thread to understand that I posted my opinion once a few days ago and was personally attacked by this individual and have had enough of his attempts at bullying & intimidation.
If his attitude represents that of the BA majority then good luck to Openskies and those that choose to go there to put the coffers in the bank to support their family's.
Last edited by Min Drag; 28th Mar 2008 at 22:44. Reason: spelling
God it's sooooooo good to be out from under the 'BA umbrella' which our idiotic parachuted-in 'management' 
used to say was our great safety-net!!!
I've gone lo-co and I wish I had done it years ago!!!! Earning 50% more than they paid me AND I am home every night with my wife and kids, not living out of a suitcase. The colour of happiness..... ORANGE!!!!!!!! (And I can ignore the rantings of those who sought to freeze us out of any prospects because we had a few aircraft over 100 seats... heck, I was able to fly more passengers than Concorde crews! How did 'scope' cover that???!!!!
)
used to say was our great safety-net!!!I've gone lo-co and I wish I had done it years ago!!!! Earning 50% more than they paid me AND I am home every night with my wife and kids, not living out of a suitcase. The colour of happiness..... ORANGE!!!!!!!! (And I can ignore the rantings of those who sought to freeze us out of any prospects because we had a few aircraft over 100 seats... heck, I was able to fly more passengers than Concorde crews! How did 'scope' cover that???!!!!
)