Do BA pilots really deserve our support re Openskys?
 

BA pilots are asking for our support in their strugle against openskies, my question is do they really deserve it?

Before some BA pilots shout "we dont need your support" remember you have through your BALPA CC asked for support through IFALPA, one form of this is the IFALPA recruitment ban on Openskys.

Having read other threads on PPrune and observed the elitist behaviour of the BA CC over the years regarding DAN AIR, BA Cityexpress, GSS etc and the sheer arrogance of some of the BA pilots who have posted on here I think not................let them fight their own little war and sink with it. They argue that they set the standards to which all UK pilots aspire.........I think not anymore, many European companies have better terms and conditions than BA, in fact I think Virgin are a better bet regarding general T and Cs.

And only 18 months after you returned your strike ballot!

What do you think?

Since it was only last month you were talking of applying to BA, I would have thought it was in your interests that we succeeded! :rolleyes:

2 Feb 2008, in thread titled BA747 rostering:
:confused::confused::confused:

In order to stop a thread drift i have sent you a PM tandemrotor.

I am not interested in joining BA.

Tandem,

You are aware that by coming across as a complete pompous ass you do your own cause no good?:rolleyes:

As a non BA pilot, we need to think "pilots as a whole", the action they are taking will preserve the ground for the rest of the up coming pilot community who one day will step in their shoes.

The actions taken against pilots are very rarely taken by pilots, we need to speak with one voice and preserve the rights we have regarding our choice of where we wish to fly and for whom.

well said kwachon!! a lesson BA pilots need to learn i feel ;-)

Random air, yes that really was a bitchy little comment that has nothing to do with the thread, verbal reasoning has nothing to do with spelling... its about being analyitical and absorbing information....prob why it took you three goes!:);)

Yes I think we should pledge the same scope, and support that BA pilots pledged for all the other pilots that were or are in the BA group! :E

I suspect most of you haven't thought about the effect Openskies will have on the industry in the UK.

Sounds arrogant but if BA use this as a "Trojan Horse" to force in lower t&cs across the BA workforce then some 3300 pilots out of 10-12,000 (ish) commercial pilots in the uk then that can only set a precidence to other operators in the uk who may use BA salaries as benchmarks.

Hmmm....

From this:

Bluepilot 02 Feb 08
to this:

Bluepilot 23 Mar 08

and from this:

Bluepilot 07 Feb 08
Bluepilot 08 Feb 08
to this:

Bluepilot 23 Mar 08

From which we can deduce that the PFO letter from BA / OpenSkies arrived on Bluepilot's door mat earlier this month! :}

Sounds like BA selection got that one right! :D

Seconded. That'll be bugger all then.

Dick dead eye you couldnt be more WRONG!!

By the personal attacks you are pointing in my direction you are confirming the arrogance that has really pi**ed me and alot of others off over these proceedings.

As you have pointed out I have gone from a supporter of your cause to an opponent (seemingly).

You just dont get it do you??? This is not about me this is about working TOGETHER AS A PILOT COMMUNITY.

Can any of you (BA pilots) admit that there were mistakes in the past and those mistakes have bought this mess apon you.

will you ever learn ? :ugh::ugh:

I'm an arrogant, condescending, chip on his shoulder, silver spoon in mouth BA pilot:ok:

Whatever anyone thinks, every airline in Europe is watching this dispute and its outcome.:uhoh:

If BA succeed then you can bet your bottom dollar that the bottom line for pilot pay and conditions will fall further and faster than they are at the moment.

If I were starting out then BA may not be my first choice, clearly bluepilot has that choice, he/she is a lucky person:D

bluepilot - what would you do if after joining Openskies, your management (inept and immoral...as you may find out) decide to set up another company to employ pilots to do your job for less than the going rate? Wouldn't you ballot your fellow Openskies pilots to protect your agreed T's and C's?
In a way, it is a pity that you didn't join us in BA. I've lost count of the number of newbies that join us ranting about millionaire BA pilots living like Lords doing bugger all work. Normally, they change their tune after 6 months. Those that don't seem to go into management to work out ways of enriching themselves at evrybody else's expense. If you join Openskies, you will find this out. Knowing the management involved in Openskies, all I can say is "Good Luck". You will need it. Please don't say you weren't warned.

To all BA pilots
 

You have got my support ! It is time for pilots to stop fighting each other, that will only drive T and C:s down, down and down.
Management give each other bonuses and 20% payincreases, maybe if we stopped fighting each other. . . .

Good luck to you guys in BA

I will try to explain the reason I have started this thread.

Most pilots at an early stage learnt to learn from their mistakes, analyse information and act on it accordingly.

Over the past few years the BA CC have allowed BA management to get away with murder regarding T and C, they have believed that they were working in the interests of their members by “allowing” franchises, BACX , GSS with the small reward of a few commands within some of these companies. What has happened is the BA CC have allowed non BA pilots to fly BA planes for years and years and worse still have severely p**ed off fellow pilot communities as well.

Now BA decide to start openskies, a different company working in different countries but flying bread and butter routes to the USA, the BA CC say no! Not without the pilots being on the mainline list, shout “BA planes BA pilots” but hang on??? non BA pilots have flown BA planes for years, (and before you all jump at me and say AHHH the B757-200 is a BA owned plane remember it was planned to be replaced anyway and is being “sold” to another airline). The sheer arrogance of the BA CC by not insisting that ALL pilots who have flown the flag in the past were on the mainline list has come back to haunt them. The BALPA chairman JM stupidly enraged the non BA pilot community by inferring that this dispute was also about standards and using BA038 as an example. He inferred that if an non BA pilot had been at the controls of that aircraft then the outcome may have been very different!!!! It all boils down to this, the pilots, BA management, BA CC and BALPA are guilty of corporate arrogance.

Now to answer my own question “do BA pilots really deserve our support re Openskys”?
Damn right they do! We all make mistakes and as professional pilots we learn from them, what the BA CC did to BACX , GSS etc was wrong, it not only damaged the pilots in those airlines it severly weakened the BA pilots future case with openskies, they must learn from the past and never ever allow this situation to arise again. As a BALPA member it is my duty to support my colleagues in BA, no they should not fight their own little war and sink with it, but we all need to learn from this BA and non BA members alike, unless we pull together and work together better in the future we will all suffer.

Management have done a good job in dividing the pilot forces, lets not let them conquer us!

bluepilot

I think I now see where you are coming from, and I am genuinely (and humbly!) grateful for your support!

All I can say is that there are two sides, to all the BA associated airlines to which you have referred.

I do not believe you can realistically expect 3300 BA pilots to go on strike for the sake of 4 aircraft's worth of freighter work. (That is the current GSS agreement) I'm not even sure it would be legal.

Nor would many have gone on strike to incorporate 50 seat aircraft into mainline, as per BACX. (The RJ100 pilots had the opportunity, and will revert to mainline in two years)

That is not to say we wouldn't have supported those pilot groups, had they decided to force the issue! But they didn't, and haven't. There's the rub!!!

To paraphrase your earlier post; the BA CC did nothing to BACX , or GSS that would have harmed their chances of joining mainline. We want GSS work in house. Why wouldn't we? But it's not our company, and presumably there are many of their pilots who don't want to be BA!!!

OS is totally unlike the previous examples. It involves aircraft of an unlimited size (unlike BACX!) and in unlimited numbers (unlike GSS!)

We haven't found it easy to raise an army even over this obvious attack! It's 22 years since we last struck!!

What chance do you think we would have stood with earlier issues??

I'm sorry, but sometimes people have to take responsibility for their own situations. I'll support anyone who is prepared to down the tools!!

I hope others feel the same, but if they don't........

Many BA pilots just will not face reality.
Their once cushey jobs are on the decline, and reality will set in sooner or later.
OS is just the first of a long series of cost reducing efforts, yet the BA pilots continue to resist, with their silly 'bans' etc.
Management will prevail in the long run, make no mistake....they always do.;)

In addition, I wonder why present BA pilots would try to convince others...after all, it's their 'fight'.
Why not just go on strike instead of pithering about all the time?
No backbone perhaps?:}

Fantastic.

It works!! :):):)

This thread is bizarre. It's really hard to read for the frequent last minute edits and what the hell is a BA CC and BALPA CC? CC is and always was a flight attendant. Cabin Crew. Have I missed some form of newspeak? Aside from that, this is a no brainer. They need our support. End of story.

CC = Company Council