Clark Institute of Aviation
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Dare
If CIA have a generic MPL course (or a course based on the Cebu Pacific SOPs), then anyone who is not "guaranteed" a Cebu Pacific position will come out with a worthless license.
Care to expound why it is worthless? In the scenario you mentioned, if the CAAP gives out a license, how will that license be worthless? perhaps showing the relevant Philippines CAR provisions to this effect would be a good starting point. Hint: EU experience does not count, unless you think a poor third world country ought to just follow the lead of EU.
PAL will not touch you, neither would Air Philippines, Asian Spirit(whatever the new name is) etc.
How are you privy to their thinking? Unless you have insider info, or you are an insider in the top management of said companies you mentioned (by the way, there is no more Air Philippines), you very well know that you are in no position to speak for these companies.
Also, you will not be able to fly GA (General Aviation) as you do not have a CPL ME/IR
I don't think that was ever the intention.
All you need to do is make a quick phonecall to Air Philippines, Asian Spirit, and |PAL and ask the HR department whether (if there was a need for pilots) would they consider an MPL license? Their answer would be no.
skyhigh you must be in a place so high as to have a ready answer to your own question. Pretty clever.
if i do your dare and i get a positive answer, why would i even post it here? to glorify your pontification?
TO OTHERS:
i have been reading this entire thread for a month now and it is pretty obvious how this is populated by people with varying agenda. i am beginning to see a pattern here: whenever CA makes an important milestone, the thread gets divided into two: those who are happy with the success and those who wish to point out how CA still lacks something, and that is an understatement.
i have witnessed mudslinging, name calling, racism (in this day and age!), and the worst trouble-making imaginable. i am not particularly knowledgeable about CA's past except for those mentioned here in this thread, but what is clear is that CA has managed to finish cadets and take them to 5J, when at one time it was impossible to do so. let's give credit where it is due.
as others have mentioned, now the next step we should monitor is what happens to their non-Cebu cadets. i would imagine that it is in the interest of both the school and the regulator to find a workable solution, as this will have an impact on the reputation of the Philippines and their ambition to be a center for aviation training in the region.
anything else is purely rumor and scare mongering.
Care to expound why it is worthless? In the scenario you mentioned, if the CAAP gives out a license, how will that license be worthless? perhaps showing the relevant Philippines CAR provisions to this effect would be a good starting point. Hint: EU experience does not count, unless you think a poor third world country ought to just follow the lead of EU.
PAL will not touch you, neither would Air Philippines, Asian Spirit(whatever the new name is) etc.
How are you privy to their thinking? Unless you have insider info, or you are an insider in the top management of said companies you mentioned (by the way, there is no more Air Philippines), you very well know that you are in no position to speak for these companies.
Also, you will not be able to fly GA (General Aviation) as you do not have a CPL ME/IR
I don't think that was ever the intention.
All you need to do is make a quick phonecall to Air Philippines, Asian Spirit, and |PAL and ask the HR department whether (if there was a need for pilots) would they consider an MPL license? Their answer would be no.
skyhigh you must be in a place so high as to have a ready answer to your own question. Pretty clever.
if i do your dare and i get a positive answer, why would i even post it here? to glorify your pontification?
TO OTHERS:
i have been reading this entire thread for a month now and it is pretty obvious how this is populated by people with varying agenda. i am beginning to see a pattern here: whenever CA makes an important milestone, the thread gets divided into two: those who are happy with the success and those who wish to point out how CA still lacks something, and that is an understatement.
i have witnessed mudslinging, name calling, racism (in this day and age!), and the worst trouble-making imaginable. i am not particularly knowledgeable about CA's past except for those mentioned here in this thread, but what is clear is that CA has managed to finish cadets and take them to 5J, when at one time it was impossible to do so. let's give credit where it is due.
as others have mentioned, now the next step we should monitor is what happens to their non-Cebu cadets. i would imagine that it is in the interest of both the school and the regulator to find a workable solution, as this will have an impact on the reputation of the Philippines and their ambition to be a center for aviation training in the region.
anything else is purely rumor and scare mongering.
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mountainhead 2007
As someone who started a career in Phils, I would be very annoyed if anyone said anything bad about the Philippines. But in SHBs defence, I can't really see anything condescending in what he/she wrote. I agree that the second post was a little too assuming regarding what PAL would say.
I can verify however that the way the MPL is structured in the UK and the whole EU is airline specific. The first scheme in the UK which was the Flybe/FTE scheme (Flybe is a low cost carrier flying Dash-8s) has a clause where MPL students would automatically be transferred to the fATPL course if the Airline went bust during the training.
This is because the course is Flybe specific. However, if the MPL cadets successfully gain employment at Flybe and the company goes bust or they are made redundant before the magic 1500 hours, then they will be in a very difficult position.
Mountaintop, I must however pick out one point though in your message.
"Also, you will not be able to fly GA (General Aviation) as you do not have a CPL ME/IR
I don't think that was ever the intention."
It is very very risky to embark on pilot training and think that you will go directly into an airline flying big shiny jets. That is the possible best case scenario. In the UK/USA the time honoured route was to build hours first either by flight instructing, crop spraying, towing gliders, pleasure flights etc. For this, you need a CPL. Now with an MPL, you will not be able to even do this kind of General Aviation so how will you build hours?
The point is in the EU, no airline will take an MPL license unless the MPL course the pilot completed was for that specific airline. I also know for definite that N.America aren't even touching the MPL. So straight away, the two biggest pilot markets in the world are closed to any MPL cadets at Clark.
Gulf Air I believe has/will be about to embark on an MPL but this is GulfAir focused - like the MPL is supposed to be. So again any Clark pilot who took the genric MPL course would not be able to apply for Gulf.
I believe Mr Narmon is still the top recruitment guy at PAL so I am pretty sure he could give a quick answer if anyone wanted to call him. But remember, considering PAL already have their own school and take 2 batches a year-fATPL, straight away the national carrier of Philippines is another closed door to MPL cadets.
So I too am now interested as to what exactly was told to MPL cadets when they first applied to Clark without a guarantee from Cebu Pacific?
I agree with your comment that it would be interesting to see what happens to non-bupac MPL cadets. The problem is isn't it too late to "wait and see" for this cadets who have spent a lot of money. Singapore Airlines have their own training school along with Cathay Pacific. So I can not see these two SE Asian airlines recruiting MPL cadets from Philippines. I'm sure nationality requirements are also a hindrance too.
So my area of interest is whether non-bupac cadets were informed of these uncertainties before they started their course at Clark?
As someone who started a career in Phils, I would be very annoyed if anyone said anything bad about the Philippines. But in SHBs defence, I can't really see anything condescending in what he/she wrote. I agree that the second post was a little too assuming regarding what PAL would say.
I can verify however that the way the MPL is structured in the UK and the whole EU is airline specific. The first scheme in the UK which was the Flybe/FTE scheme (Flybe is a low cost carrier flying Dash-8s) has a clause where MPL students would automatically be transferred to the fATPL course if the Airline went bust during the training.
This is because the course is Flybe specific. However, if the MPL cadets successfully gain employment at Flybe and the company goes bust or they are made redundant before the magic 1500 hours, then they will be in a very difficult position.
Mountaintop, I must however pick out one point though in your message.
"Also, you will not be able to fly GA (General Aviation) as you do not have a CPL ME/IR
I don't think that was ever the intention."
It is very very risky to embark on pilot training and think that you will go directly into an airline flying big shiny jets. That is the possible best case scenario. In the UK/USA the time honoured route was to build hours first either by flight instructing, crop spraying, towing gliders, pleasure flights etc. For this, you need a CPL. Now with an MPL, you will not be able to even do this kind of General Aviation so how will you build hours?
The point is in the EU, no airline will take an MPL license unless the MPL course the pilot completed was for that specific airline. I also know for definite that N.America aren't even touching the MPL. So straight away, the two biggest pilot markets in the world are closed to any MPL cadets at Clark.
Gulf Air I believe has/will be about to embark on an MPL but this is GulfAir focused - like the MPL is supposed to be. So again any Clark pilot who took the genric MPL course would not be able to apply for Gulf.
I believe Mr Narmon is still the top recruitment guy at PAL so I am pretty sure he could give a quick answer if anyone wanted to call him. But remember, considering PAL already have their own school and take 2 batches a year-fATPL, straight away the national carrier of Philippines is another closed door to MPL cadets.
So I too am now interested as to what exactly was told to MPL cadets when they first applied to Clark without a guarantee from Cebu Pacific?
I agree with your comment that it would be interesting to see what happens to non-bupac MPL cadets. The problem is isn't it too late to "wait and see" for this cadets who have spent a lot of money. Singapore Airlines have their own training school along with Cathay Pacific. So I can not see these two SE Asian airlines recruiting MPL cadets from Philippines. I'm sure nationality requirements are also a hindrance too.
So my area of interest is whether non-bupac cadets were informed of these uncertainties before they started their course at Clark?
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betpumping
i have questions for you for which i hope you can provide answers. but if you can't that's also not a problem. 
1.I can verify however that the way the MPL is structured in the UK and the whole EU is airline specific.
is this a requirement of all ICAO member states or is this a UK and EU initiative? pardon my ignorance, but i cannot seem to identify a restriction to this effect from the ICAO documents regarding MPL.
if this is ICAO requirement (as reflected in ICAO Annex 1), then Philippines and CA should follow.
if this is NOT ICAO requirement (which is what it seems to me, pls correct me if i am wrong), then would you agree that EU and UK don't have any business preaching how another fellow member state should behave?
2. Gulf Air I believe has/will be about to embark on an MPL but this is GulfAir focused - like the MPL is supposed to be. So again any Clark pilot who took the genric MPL course would not be able to apply for Gulf.
last time i checked, the Gulf isn't composed of Gulfair alone. however, again the question would be, do we know for certain that Gulf air or any of the other Gulf airlines are not willing to take in MPL from another country/ ATO? Or are we assuming again?
3. I believe Mr Narmon is still the top recruitment guy at PAL so I am pretty sure he could give a quick answer if anyone wanted to call him. But remember, considering PAL already have their own school and take 2 batches a year-fATPL, straight away the national carrier of Philippines is another closed door to MPL cadets.
If I call PAL now, they will answer with their standard protocol -- min 1500H of flying time with CPL/ IR, but will give exemptions to low hour pilots only if they are "deserving" graduates of PAL AV school. Even if that is the case, isn't it fair to say that PAL not saying anything about MPL now does not mean they are not thinking about it?
4. Singapore Airlines have their own training school along with Cathay Pacific. So I can not see these two SE Asian airlines recruiting MPL cadets from Philippines.
I cannot see it either! but again wouldn't it be too presumptuous to conclude there is nothing going on in the region?
1.I can verify however that the way the MPL is structured in the UK and the whole EU is airline specific.
is this a requirement of all ICAO member states or is this a UK and EU initiative? pardon my ignorance, but i cannot seem to identify a restriction to this effect from the ICAO documents regarding MPL.
if this is ICAO requirement (as reflected in ICAO Annex 1), then Philippines and CA should follow.
if this is NOT ICAO requirement (which is what it seems to me, pls correct me if i am wrong), then would you agree that EU and UK don't have any business preaching how another fellow member state should behave?
2. Gulf Air I believe has/will be about to embark on an MPL but this is GulfAir focused - like the MPL is supposed to be. So again any Clark pilot who took the genric MPL course would not be able to apply for Gulf.
last time i checked, the Gulf isn't composed of Gulfair alone. however, again the question would be, do we know for certain that Gulf air or any of the other Gulf airlines are not willing to take in MPL from another country/ ATO? Or are we assuming again?
3. I believe Mr Narmon is still the top recruitment guy at PAL so I am pretty sure he could give a quick answer if anyone wanted to call him. But remember, considering PAL already have their own school and take 2 batches a year-fATPL, straight away the national carrier of Philippines is another closed door to MPL cadets.
If I call PAL now, they will answer with their standard protocol -- min 1500H of flying time with CPL/ IR, but will give exemptions to low hour pilots only if they are "deserving" graduates of PAL AV school. Even if that is the case, isn't it fair to say that PAL not saying anything about MPL now does not mean they are not thinking about it?
4. Singapore Airlines have their own training school along with Cathay Pacific. So I can not see these two SE Asian airlines recruiting MPL cadets from Philippines.
I cannot see it either! but again wouldn't it be too presumptuous to conclude there is nothing going on in the region?
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Thank you for your reply. As someone who has almost 10 years in the industry and believe it or not actually talks to counterparts daily from different airlines, I think whatever I write would still be quoted and rebutted by people like you who thinks they know more.
I have a filipina stepmother. Father now lives there. And I spent my first 2 years flying in the Philippines. I learnt a lot about the culture of Filipinos and how they are easily taken advantage of when a possible dream could be made true. Pyramid schemes as an example and even educated nurses who, due to lack of research, will plough a large amount of finance into the hands of an unscrupulous agent who promised them employment in another country.
I am not for one second saying that Clark are a scam. They most certainly are not and regardless of the problems they have had during the earlier stages (I've read the posts with a pinch of salt by the way), they really are trying to build up a centre of excellence based around the MPL.
I just hope for the sake of my adopted kababayan that Clark did not falsely advertise the MPL as something that has an equal standing as the fATPL. I believe the MPL is the way forward - it is cheaper and quicker and can meet the needs of airlines within 12 months as opposed to a fATPL+TR which could take 2 years. The only way this can work (and this is how it is being worked in the EU) is by the airline constructing their own MPL course with a partner FTO - Flybe/FTE for example. Learning the SOPs from day 1 is the attraction for airlines to invest in an MPL.
Remember one more thing, Clark offer the MPL on an A320. So if there happens to be a wait as there are no A320 positions available, an MPL cadet can not even stay current by flying General Aviation.
Has Clark offered advice on the procedures for remaining current? Costs?
I have a filipina stepmother. Father now lives there. And I spent my first 2 years flying in the Philippines. I learnt a lot about the culture of Filipinos and how they are easily taken advantage of when a possible dream could be made true. Pyramid schemes as an example and even educated nurses who, due to lack of research, will plough a large amount of finance into the hands of an unscrupulous agent who promised them employment in another country.
I am not for one second saying that Clark are a scam. They most certainly are not and regardless of the problems they have had during the earlier stages (I've read the posts with a pinch of salt by the way), they really are trying to build up a centre of excellence based around the MPL.
I just hope for the sake of my adopted kababayan that Clark did not falsely advertise the MPL as something that has an equal standing as the fATPL. I believe the MPL is the way forward - it is cheaper and quicker and can meet the needs of airlines within 12 months as opposed to a fATPL+TR which could take 2 years. The only way this can work (and this is how it is being worked in the EU) is by the airline constructing their own MPL course with a partner FTO - Flybe/FTE for example. Learning the SOPs from day 1 is the attraction for airlines to invest in an MPL.
Remember one more thing, Clark offer the MPL on an A320. So if there happens to be a wait as there are no A320 positions available, an MPL cadet can not even stay current by flying General Aviation.
Has Clark offered advice on the procedures for remaining current? Costs?
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I am not for one second saying that Clark is a scam
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Lolo
This was written in March 2008.
So I don't quite understand your point.
And every single paragraph has backed up every single point I and SHB have tried to make for example:
the only difference is that the MPL pilot can't act as a pilot-in-command of a single-pilot airplane. In other words, he can't fly a Cessna by himsel
"Candidates were trained in Sterling procedures "from day one.
Now this March 2008 article talks a lot about Sterling Airlines. This is the Danish Airline that was the first European Airline to adopt the MPL scheme for THEIR airline using THEIR procedures. Now below are some extracts from another aviation magazine about what happened when Sterling Airlines went BUST.
And this was written in AUGUST 2008
The world’s first MPL-rated airline pilots are to be laid off this November. Danish carrier Sterling Airlines are dismissing 61 employees as part of cutbacks forced on the carrier due to high fuel prices and the economic downturn, and the MPL-rated pilots will be amongst those to go.
The thirteen MPL pilots are due to finish with Sterling this November and given their training at Danish Center Air Pilot Academy was focused specifically on Sterling Airlines standard operating procedures (SOPs), they may find it hard to find employment elsewhere.
Sterling's chief pilot Claus Gammelgaard told FTN that the dismissal of the MPL pilots was in no way related to their piloting skills, but merely based on their last-in, first-out employment practise. He said that they were "extremely satisfied" with their level of piloting ability, but faced with the need for redundancies Sterling had no option but to dismiss them.
But hopefully all is not lost for these pilots, as according to when they joined the airline (the first started last October) they will have amassed between 500 and 800 hours each on Sterling’s Boeing 737NG fleet by the time they finish. Additionally, Claus told FTN that while the pilot’s training was focused on the airline’s SOPs, they are in turn closely modelled on Boeing’s own, so hopefully other airlines will look favourably on them given the relatively small amount of extra training that will be involved. Due to the constraints of their licence however, which affords them multi-crew piloting privileges in 737NG aircraft only, their employability will be limited to airlines who operate the same aircraft as Sterling and in the current climate it could be some time before they find new positions.
Read the limitations VERY carefully. These guys have amassed 500-800 hours but there is still the sentence that their licence could possibly still make it difficult to find employment.
So the question and concern still remains regarding the MPL cadets not guaranteed a position with Cebu Pacific. Have past and new cadets been informed of this? Are there still cadets arriving each month?
This was written in March 2008.
So I don't quite understand your point.And every single paragraph has backed up every single point I and SHB have tried to make for example:
the only difference is that the MPL pilot can't act as a pilot-in-command of a single-pilot airplane. In other words, he can't fly a Cessna by himsel
"Candidates were trained in Sterling procedures "from day one.
Now this March 2008 article talks a lot about Sterling Airlines. This is the Danish Airline that was the first European Airline to adopt the MPL scheme for THEIR airline using THEIR procedures. Now below are some extracts from another aviation magazine about what happened when Sterling Airlines went BUST.
And this was written in AUGUST 2008
The world’s first MPL-rated airline pilots are to be laid off this November. Danish carrier Sterling Airlines are dismissing 61 employees as part of cutbacks forced on the carrier due to high fuel prices and the economic downturn, and the MPL-rated pilots will be amongst those to go.
The thirteen MPL pilots are due to finish with Sterling this November and given their training at Danish Center Air Pilot Academy was focused specifically on Sterling Airlines standard operating procedures (SOPs), they may find it hard to find employment elsewhere.
Sterling's chief pilot Claus Gammelgaard told FTN that the dismissal of the MPL pilots was in no way related to their piloting skills, but merely based on their last-in, first-out employment practise. He said that they were "extremely satisfied" with their level of piloting ability, but faced with the need for redundancies Sterling had no option but to dismiss them.
But hopefully all is not lost for these pilots, as according to when they joined the airline (the first started last October) they will have amassed between 500 and 800 hours each on Sterling’s Boeing 737NG fleet by the time they finish. Additionally, Claus told FTN that while the pilot’s training was focused on the airline’s SOPs, they are in turn closely modelled on Boeing’s own, so hopefully other airlines will look favourably on them given the relatively small amount of extra training that will be involved. Due to the constraints of their licence however, which affords them multi-crew piloting privileges in 737NG aircraft only, their employability will be limited to airlines who operate the same aircraft as Sterling and in the current climate it could be some time before they find new positions.
Read the limitations VERY carefully. These guys have amassed 500-800 hours but there is still the sentence that their licence could possibly still make it difficult to find employment.
So the question and concern still remains regarding the MPL cadets not guaranteed a position with Cebu Pacific. Have past and new cadets been informed of this? Are there still cadets arriving each month?
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Lolo
Yes, the times they are a'changin, but for the life of me, could you please answer Betpumps question re whatever will happen to the non bupakers. If I heard it right, it was Cebu Pac who finished their own cadets, not Clark (that's according to the people in CAAP). They said it was all about the takeoff and landing requirement. That true? Clark cannot provide that requirement? How come? Just asking, nothing against the program, really.
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Reedeye
nothing really surprising with Cebu doing Base Training for Clark as Sterling did Base Training for CAPA's MPL graduates and China Southern/ Xiamen Airlines did for Alteon's graduates. no big deal there.
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betpumps
why the font changes? we can read your post in regular type and color.
my position is the same. this is an anonymous forum where everyone and his uncle will claim to know stuff. so let's celebrate the sure stuff (Clark finishing cadets, MPL cadets reportedly doing well in Base Training) and reserve judgment on what we don't know or what we cannot prove.
have safe flights everyone!
my position is the same. this is an anonymous forum where everyone and his uncle will claim to know stuff. so let's celebrate the sure stuff (Clark finishing cadets, MPL cadets reportedly doing well in Base Training) and reserve judgment on what we don't know or what we cannot prove.
have safe flights everyone!
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Ok, I'm back.
Mountaintop, it is quite clear that you are incapable of understanding my point or perhaps suffer from the good old fashioned "selctive hearing" syndrome that many filipinos suffer from.
I do not dispute the fact that MPL students are doing great. I do not dispute the fact that MPL cadets originally partnered with Bupac will find employment there.
My concern are for those MPL cadets who have embarked on the CIA MPL without guarantee of a job. As someone who is proud of his adopted pinoy heritage and as someone who spent my first 2 years in aviation flying in the Philippines, I take a valid interest in the Philippine Aviation.
I have almost 10 years flying experience on the 732/742-F/and now the 744 yet you respond to me like I am a 17 year old wannabee who is here to cause nothing but trouble. The news report I quoted is fact. The limitations and current standing of the MPL in Europe is fact.
I have slowly made my way through the posts on this thread and feel utterly embarassed by what has been written here. If someone who knew nothing about Philippines came to this thread, he will see Philippines Aviation very negatively. That is why I have come here voicing my concern in the hope that if any pinoy-wannabees are thinking about joining CIA, they can read these posts and hopefully have the knowledge to ask the right questions.
I will ask one last time- what about non Bupac MPL cadets? What were they told upon induction and what are they being told now?
Mountaintop, it is quite clear that you are incapable of understanding my point or perhaps suffer from the good old fashioned "selctive hearing" syndrome that many filipinos suffer from.
I do not dispute the fact that MPL students are doing great. I do not dispute the fact that MPL cadets originally partnered with Bupac will find employment there.
My concern are for those MPL cadets who have embarked on the CIA MPL without guarantee of a job. As someone who is proud of his adopted pinoy heritage and as someone who spent my first 2 years in aviation flying in the Philippines, I take a valid interest in the Philippine Aviation.
I have almost 10 years flying experience on the 732/742-F/and now the 744 yet you respond to me like I am a 17 year old wannabee who is here to cause nothing but trouble. The news report I quoted is fact. The limitations and current standing of the MPL in Europe is fact.
I have slowly made my way through the posts on this thread and feel utterly embarassed by what has been written here. If someone who knew nothing about Philippines came to this thread, he will see Philippines Aviation very negatively. That is why I have come here voicing my concern in the hope that if any pinoy-wannabees are thinking about joining CIA, they can read these posts and hopefully have the knowledge to ask the right questions.
I will ask one last time- what about non Bupac MPL cadets? What were they told upon induction and what are they being told now?
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Hello,
I gave a look at he Clark institute's website in Philippine.
where are the planes, all I can see is a nice simulator 320?
I don't want waste my time to read the 34 pages, can you resume me the situation there?.
I understand, Cebu pacific should "sponsor" students from clark.
and Clark Aviation work with alpha aviation.
If I understand correctly, Clark has financial problems due to the actual crisis and bad management; lack of instructors...(are they looking for flight instructors?)
this is a problem I have seen in many school. They see too big, and have failed.
Train a pilot is very complicated...
you know guys, all these schools are telling bullock. What they want is your cash, then they don't care if you have problems or not.
These guys make money from you, they sit their ass all day long behind a desk, they wait for their money every 30 days, why should they care about students?
I have seen managers building schools with million of US$, buying the best flight m simulators, but they are unable to run a school professionally.
They think if you have the best hardware (A320, 737,...), you will train the best pilots in the world and Students will come to play with their sim.What a concept!!!
It doesn't matter what you fly, a 172 or an A320, at the end, the best pilot is the one who is still alive and who fly.
It 's not about race, religion, school, or type rating, it's about pilot attitude and professionalism.I have 4 licenses from different country, and actually the best place for training is USA, Canada, and maybe south Africa and Australia.
if you are looking for a JAR license, go to UK to convert to JAR.
I don't think Asian countries have the experience to train pilots.They are too corrupt and unwilling to take any responsibilities. I would not invest one penny in an Asian flight school.
I wish you luck!
I gave a look at he Clark institute's website in Philippine.
where are the planes, all I can see is a nice simulator 320?
I don't want waste my time to read the 34 pages, can you resume me the situation there?.
I understand, Cebu pacific should "sponsor" students from clark.
and Clark Aviation work with alpha aviation.
If I understand correctly, Clark has financial problems due to the actual crisis and bad management; lack of instructors...(are they looking for flight instructors?)
this is a problem I have seen in many school. They see too big, and have failed.
Train a pilot is very complicated...
you know guys, all these schools are telling bullock. What they want is your cash, then they don't care if you have problems or not.
These guys make money from you, they sit their ass all day long behind a desk, they wait for their money every 30 days, why should they care about students?
I have seen managers building schools with million of US$, buying the best flight m simulators, but they are unable to run a school professionally.
They think if you have the best hardware (A320, 737,...), you will train the best pilots in the world and Students will come to play with their sim.What a concept!!!
It doesn't matter what you fly, a 172 or an A320, at the end, the best pilot is the one who is still alive and who fly.
It 's not about race, religion, school, or type rating, it's about pilot attitude and professionalism.I have 4 licenses from different country, and actually the best place for training is USA, Canada, and maybe south Africa and Australia.
if you are looking for a JAR license, go to UK to convert to JAR.
I don't think Asian countries have the experience to train pilots.They are too corrupt and unwilling to take any responsibilities. I would not invest one penny in an Asian flight school.
I wish you luck!
Last edited by batman123; 5th May 2009 at 09:37.
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Asia Is Corrupt???
am glad you finally figured that 1 out. the worst part of it is that clark aviation has always been a problem and no one cares for these students. i dropped out because nothing was ever accomplished. mgmt realizes that there is big money here to be put into there pockets,, from the foreigners to the locals running the school. did anyone ever graduate?????????????? its php4million for the course, were is the diploma???
i would suggest that if any of you idiots want to give your money away give it to charity or something else. dont waste your time training in a school thats corrupt, doesnt care for the students or anything else.
DONT INVEST YOUR MONEY IN THIS SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!
i would suggest that if any of you idiots want to give your money away give it to charity or something else. dont waste your time training in a school thats corrupt, doesnt care for the students or anything else.
DONT INVEST YOUR MONEY IN THIS SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!
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Ca Is A Scam!!!!!!
do you believe it. i know it. these guys who argue that the mpl license is good, work for clark. they are probably in on the take.
they have 100 students at php4,000,000 each, that php400,000,000. you figure it out.
the philippines is corrupt dont deny it. its a fact of life but what can you do????
investigate 1st before you invest your money. stupidy is the filipino who doesnt want to investigate 1st. thats why they lose their money. i have seen clark A grow from 2005 i was a student who just got tired of the B******T................
you guys who think you know more are just working for CA..
they have 100 students at php4,000,000 each, that php400,000,000. you figure it out.
the philippines is corrupt dont deny it. its a fact of life but what can you do????
investigate 1st before you invest your money. stupidy is the filipino who doesnt want to investigate 1st. thats why they lose their money. i have seen clark A grow from 2005 i was a student who just got tired of the B******T................
you guys who think you know more are just working for CA..
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Batman123, Skypilot666
You should be able to see from my post where I stand on the MPL and Clark. However I believe your posts are not constructive to potential MPL/Clark cadets or to the cadets currently studying. I also think the use of the word scam is unfair.
The mismanagement at Clark that I have read (issues with scheduling and a/c) is indeed an embarrassment and I hope that these problems have been/are close to being fixed.
The marketing guys at Clark are in no way different to the marketing guys for established integrated schools in Europe - Oxford, CTC, FTE. They tell you that there is a shortage of pilots (even though there isn't) and they tell you there has never been a better time to begin training (whatever).
The difference is that many aspiring pilots have read a lot about the industry/licenses etc and are not fooled by marketing hype. They also know that the limitations of a modular course vs integrated, and also know the limitations of an MPL course. It seems to me that those who are at Clark without the guarantee of a job with BUPAC have not done their research.
How many cadets at Clark realise that if they do not get a job straight away (which they won't with a generic MPL-FACT) they can not even fly General Aviation without spending more money?
This is one point that I definitely agree on with Skypilot6666:
Unfortunately, the culture that I have seen from my time in Philippines is that "investigate" is not found in the dictionary of the average Filipino. NEVER solely trust the organisation you are giving money to! This pertains to Philippines AND the Western World. NO SCHOOL in the world cares if you get a job at the end of it. Their number 1 aim (just like any company in any industry in any country) is to make money.
RESEARCH and INVESTIGATE. Feel free to PM me.
You should be able to see from my post where I stand on the MPL and Clark. However I believe your posts are not constructive to potential MPL/Clark cadets or to the cadets currently studying. I also think the use of the word scam is unfair.
The mismanagement at Clark that I have read (issues with scheduling and a/c) is indeed an embarrassment and I hope that these problems have been/are close to being fixed.
The marketing guys at Clark are in no way different to the marketing guys for established integrated schools in Europe - Oxford, CTC, FTE. They tell you that there is a shortage of pilots (even though there isn't) and they tell you there has never been a better time to begin training (whatever).
The difference is that many aspiring pilots have read a lot about the industry/licenses etc and are not fooled by marketing hype. They also know that the limitations of a modular course vs integrated, and also know the limitations of an MPL course. It seems to me that those who are at Clark without the guarantee of a job with BUPAC have not done their research.
How many cadets at Clark realise that if they do not get a job straight away (which they won't with a generic MPL-FACT) they can not even fly General Aviation without spending more money?
This is one point that I definitely agree on with Skypilot6666:
investigate 1st before you invest your money. stupidy is the filipino who doesnt want to investigate 1st.
RESEARCH and INVESTIGATE. Feel free to PM me.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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I don't know clark, and I don't care about their crap.I give you my point of view.
I don't think it was set to run a scam....here I explain how a flight school is losing his money:
I have seen many schools during these last 20 years, and many have failed (3/4 are out).
the MPL was introduced because no one wanted to launch this type of training, it s new, revolutionar,....whatever.... I don't say it s good or bad as I have all licenses included the Airbus rating, so I am well positioned to talk about the advantage and disadvantage of this MPL but who cares of that. What a student want, is a service for his money!!!.
The MPL in Phillipine could have worked, but it 's very hard for a school to take care of planes and big simulators in same time.
Then there is the human factor to ad, I mean students need a place to stay, to live,...so now we are talking about a real big big school, with a big infrastructure, lot of personels(instructor, mechanic, examiner, assistant,..., all these mean a LOT of money.
in the actual climate, it can NOT work. Even flight safety in florida, the biggest school in the world, have lot of problems.
So here we are, some crazy people who come with lot of ideas, and specially a new idea that nobody know if it s going to work or not... :the MPL.
wooow, I have now a hard one, ahah!!!oh, yes, we are going to make lot of $$$ say the bank, (this they don't tell you).
Then you see these managers, starting their academy of smurfs with millions of $, building a flight school, setting offices, sim, retroprojectors, computers,...etc....(oh, it look like a real "academy"!).
then they discover they dont have enough money, so they start to take students money to pay debts to the bank.
then month after month, there is a delay in the program, and the bank want his money after they realize it' s going to be a fiasco.
so the school cancel planes' order, and start to say bullock to students who still belive that planes are coming, and all will be ok...
you start to see the company going down and down more and more, and people saying it s going to be OK!!!
Be real,when a school has 34 pages on pprune of complaints, it s in point of view not a good school.
The last student I have met in this aviation field, has just lost 10'000$. His manager run away and filed bankrupt. since the time, we all say don't pay too much in advance, what did you learn? nothing! how much Clark charged you, 80'000$, probably more?
and by the way, you can not work with these Asian people. they are lazy, take no responsibility and wait their salary.
I don't give a toss of this school, I fly now since years, so I am total neutral . I just found this on pprune, and I start to look at it. in my point of view you should GET OUT and TAKE YOUR MONEY...cuz the titanic is sinking!
I don't think it was set to run a scam....here I explain how a flight school is losing his money:
I have seen many schools during these last 20 years, and many have failed (3/4 are out).
the MPL was introduced because no one wanted to launch this type of training, it s new, revolutionar,....whatever.... I don't say it s good or bad as I have all licenses included the Airbus rating, so I am well positioned to talk about the advantage and disadvantage of this MPL but who cares of that. What a student want, is a service for his money!!!.
The MPL in Phillipine could have worked, but it 's very hard for a school to take care of planes and big simulators in same time.
Then there is the human factor to ad, I mean students need a place to stay, to live,...so now we are talking about a real big big school, with a big infrastructure, lot of personels(instructor, mechanic, examiner, assistant,..., all these mean a LOT of money.
in the actual climate, it can NOT work. Even flight safety in florida, the biggest school in the world, have lot of problems.
So here we are, some crazy people who come with lot of ideas, and specially a new idea that nobody know if it s going to work or not... :the MPL.
wooow, I have now a hard one, ahah!!!oh, yes, we are going to make lot of $$$ say the bank, (this they don't tell you).
Then you see these managers, starting their academy of smurfs with millions of $, building a flight school, setting offices, sim, retroprojectors, computers,...etc....(oh, it look like a real "academy"!).
then they discover they dont have enough money, so they start to take students money to pay debts to the bank.
then month after month, there is a delay in the program, and the bank want his money after they realize it' s going to be a fiasco.
so the school cancel planes' order, and start to say bullock to students who still belive that planes are coming, and all will be ok...
you start to see the company going down and down more and more, and people saying it s going to be OK!!!
Be real,when a school has 34 pages on pprune of complaints, it s in point of view not a good school.
The last student I have met in this aviation field, has just lost 10'000$. His manager run away and filed bankrupt. since the time, we all say don't pay too much in advance, what did you learn? nothing! how much Clark charged you, 80'000$, probably more?
and by the way, you can not work with these Asian people. they are lazy, take no responsibility and wait their salary.
I don't give a toss of this school, I fly now since years, so I am total neutral . I just found this on pprune, and I start to look at it. in my point of view you should GET OUT and TAKE YOUR MONEY...cuz the titanic is sinking!
Last edited by batman123; 5th May 2009 at 21:26.
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and by the way, you can not work with these Asian people. they are lazy, take no responsibility and wait their salary.
Do you want me to stoop down to your level? Actually, it was those 3 white people (plus another white they hired to fix the core flying phase.. which was supposedly their job in the first place)who starting the mpl program here in Clark who was lazy and talk nothing but bull during the initial phase of the program. Too lazy that they just sat around their desk watching football instead of teaching students groundschool and fixing the Flight school license!!
Good thing that they got fired!! And asians replaced them.. atleast, these asian managements fixed the mess that those 3 made and worked round the clock. So who's lazy now?! Geez!
Im not saying that whats happening to our school is already out of the danger areas. While there are 3 students got their a320 12 TAGS while 7 are waiting for their turn sometime this month, there are still hundreds for CA to problem about which was caused by mismanagement of the 3 stupid white ex-employees.
One important thing I learned from aviation (early this stage of my life), is that it changes everytime. One moment, you seem to be on top of the world, the next, you realized you dont know what hit you! It goes vice versa should I say.
So my point is, that its funny how some forumers think of this MPL project as static, and cant be worked out. Everything changes from time to time. It is dynamic and the project and the versatile ASIAN people would adapt to the needs to make this work out. (unlike some white people I know who cant adapt to his environment... poor thing!)
As for you Batman, thanks for boasting that you have multiple license and bothered to say your grudges to Asian people here in our forums. It really looked like you had a bitter past that you cant get over with! hahaha.. get a psychologist.. i think you're too rich not to give it a try. it MIGHT work you know.