Clark Institute of Aviation
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Sorry, I have to correct my statement about asian people being lazy.
what I tried to say, this school was run by european or US people trying to make money from you,I don't know exactly who run this school, but I know by experience that people who know nothing about aviation just follow a leader who just want make big bucks.Such business is proned to fail!
Buying a sim 320, it s like showing a toy at 20'000 millions $ and then say to everyone, "see? we can train for the MPL"... well, let' s see how many of you will be trained and how many of you will get a job when thousand of A320 pilots are struggling to get a job.
ok, let's correct my statement, asian people are not lazy, they are hard worker , but why they should work when their leader is making foul of their students.
I will do the same! and I am not asian!I am not lazy, but when the titanic sink, nobody give a toss about you.
clark is apparently run or was runed by some monkeys who know knothing about training pilots, and thought it was simple to train a pilot.
just by a sim, build some rooms, and classrooms and that's all.
If now it s run by asian people, it s going to be same...
I don't see asian people to run a flight school. too much corruption.
sorry guys, it s not working like that.
About the quality of the training, I can tell you most asian coutries will teach you crap. I dont belive that these asian pilots can teach you correctly by following ICAO standards and Airbus syllabus.
I dont talk about the indian pilots, who are just a farce.
the sad thing: some people make u belive u can go on a A320 in minimum time, and minimum effort.These planes are very complex, specialy during failures, so spend 200h in the A320, with a minum hours of real experience in a C172. what do you know about pilot decision, GO or NO GO???
it is not in a sim you learn that, it s by looking outside we can see in what kind of sauce you will fly.But some monkeys people will tell you how to fly a sim, when they have no idea how to fly a cessna.
I do believe you can learn to fly an airbus, then fly in smaller planes, why not?? the 320 is highly automatic, so it s possible.Yes USA and europe, we dont want to accept that, we are old fashioned...let s give a try!give them their chance.
if europe and USA like to stick to their rules, it s because aviation there is the safest in the world, when pilots in asia, are called plane crashers!!!
I think this MPL licens is not so bad, but it s very risky and limited because for the same price you can have a real license with unlimited plane and a MPL.In europe, Britsh airways trained guys with 200h and are now on the 777.
anyway fly safe... (why would you care to fly safe, you have no idea how to fly a REAL plane!!!LOL)
what I tried to say, this school was run by european or US people trying to make money from you,I don't know exactly who run this school, but I know by experience that people who know nothing about aviation just follow a leader who just want make big bucks.Such business is proned to fail!
Buying a sim 320, it s like showing a toy at 20'000 millions $ and then say to everyone, "see? we can train for the MPL"... well, let' s see how many of you will be trained and how many of you will get a job when thousand of A320 pilots are struggling to get a job.
ok, let's correct my statement, asian people are not lazy, they are hard worker , but why they should work when their leader is making foul of their students.
I will do the same! and I am not asian!I am not lazy, but when the titanic sink, nobody give a toss about you.
clark is apparently run or was runed by some monkeys who know knothing about training pilots, and thought it was simple to train a pilot.
just by a sim, build some rooms, and classrooms and that's all.
If now it s run by asian people, it s going to be same...
I don't see asian people to run a flight school. too much corruption.
sorry guys, it s not working like that.
About the quality of the training, I can tell you most asian coutries will teach you crap. I dont belive that these asian pilots can teach you correctly by following ICAO standards and Airbus syllabus.
I dont talk about the indian pilots, who are just a farce.
the sad thing: some people make u belive u can go on a A320 in minimum time, and minimum effort.These planes are very complex, specialy during failures, so spend 200h in the A320, with a minum hours of real experience in a C172. what do you know about pilot decision, GO or NO GO???
it is not in a sim you learn that, it s by looking outside we can see in what kind of sauce you will fly.But some monkeys people will tell you how to fly a sim, when they have no idea how to fly a cessna.
I do believe you can learn to fly an airbus, then fly in smaller planes, why not?? the 320 is highly automatic, so it s possible.Yes USA and europe, we dont want to accept that, we are old fashioned...let s give a try!give them their chance.
if europe and USA like to stick to their rules, it s because aviation there is the safest in the world, when pilots in asia, are called plane crashers!!!
I think this MPL licens is not so bad, but it s very risky and limited because for the same price you can have a real license with unlimited plane and a MPL.In europe, Britsh airways trained guys with 200h and are now on the 777.
anyway fly safe... (why would you care to fly safe, you have no idea how to fly a REAL plane!!!LOL)
Last edited by batman123; 6th May 2009 at 20:42.
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batman 123
"About the quality of the training, I can tell you most asian coutries will teach you crap. I dont belive that these asian pilots can teach you correctly by following ICAO standards and Airbus syllabus."
so batman123, where is this lovely place where there is no corruption, and every teacher is of a high standard?
"clark is apparently run or was runed [sic] by some monkeys who know knothing about training pilots, and thought it was simple to train a pilot"
yeah i heard that some former CA managers/directors ("monkeys" as you say) are using this thread to sow trouble under the guise of being "former students." they were kicked out when 5J complained about them.
so batman123, where is this lovely place where there is no corruption, and every teacher is of a high standard?
"clark is apparently run or was runed [sic] by some monkeys who know knothing about training pilots, and thought it was simple to train a pilot"
yeah i heard that some former CA managers/directors ("monkeys" as you say) are using this thread to sow trouble under the guise of being "former students." they were kicked out when 5J complained about them.
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betpumps
i agree with you that people must investigate before they invest. in fact, that is what i am doing now. 
with the graduation of 3 cebu pacific cadets, it is obvious that the last piece left is about the non cebu sponsored cadets. unless that gets solved, i'm not taking the plunge. i imagine the management in CA have the same headache (which if you believe what i have been told, and as mentioned below by bagoongathipon, was something the old management made a mess of and the current management is trying to fix).
unfortunately i have no way of knowing what was told to the cadets at the start maybe we can both come down to that nice town one day and check it out. beer's on me
with the graduation of 3 cebu pacific cadets, it is obvious that the last piece left is about the non cebu sponsored cadets. unless that gets solved, i'm not taking the plunge. i imagine the management in CA have the same headache (which if you believe what i have been told, and as mentioned below by bagoongathipon, was something the old management made a mess of and the current management is trying to fix).
unfortunately i have no way of knowing what was told to the cadets at the start maybe we can both come down to that nice town one day and check it out. beer's on me
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Mountaintop and others,
ignore pretty much everything batman has said - some of which is bordering on racist and actually insulting against the country I love. Talagang tanga sya - hehe I can still speak it
Mountaintop, that is the best advice - to investigate. However I will give you some more wisdom.
Mountaintop - they are not having a headache. In Europe, Oxford, CTC, FTE do not care if their cadets get a job, likewise management in Clark do not care. The only headache management have is the morning one after a night out!
I'm sure one may respond by saying "If their cadets do not get a job, that is bad for the school reputation and no one will go". Wrong! People want to be pilots and the reason they pay marketing guys $75000-$100000 per annum is to get starry-eyed pilots through the door.
This is evidenced by some of the posts here - cadets who know next to nothing but come out with things like "Be positive, MPL is the future, MPL is constantly changing and improving" etc.
I am not here like batman to talk about the mismanagement.
I am not here to insult management of any race with regards to the troubles the school is having.
These problems happen in any FTO, especially anew one like Clark.
My only intention here is to make filipino's and others aware about the current limitation of the MPL IF you don't have a guarantee of a job - like with Cebu.
ignore pretty much everything batman has said - some of which is bordering on racist and actually insulting against the country I love. Talagang tanga sya - hehe I can still speak it
Mountaintop, that is the best advice - to investigate. However I will give you some more wisdom.
i imagine the management in CA have the same headache
I'm sure one may respond by saying "If their cadets do not get a job, that is bad for the school reputation and no one will go". Wrong! People want to be pilots and the reason they pay marketing guys $75000-$100000 per annum is to get starry-eyed pilots through the door.
This is evidenced by some of the posts here - cadets who know next to nothing but come out with things like "Be positive, MPL is the future, MPL is constantly changing and improving" etc.
I am not here like batman to talk about the mismanagement.
I am not here to insult management of any race with regards to the troubles the school is having.
These problems happen in any FTO, especially anew one like Clark.
My only intention here is to make filipino's and others aware about the current limitation of the MPL IF you don't have a guarantee of a job - like with Cebu.
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Long time no comment
wow - it continues to amaze me the ignorance in the world, This program is not perfect at all nor is anything else in this world. No matter what - this is the future. My father was trained for WW2 under the old system - why can't we move on ha. The team are great at clark, they are caring people who have no agenda. The GM is a solid smart phil lad who cares about the students as one of them is his wife!!@!!! So please young men stop bashing these fine people they are doing there best and paving a path which no one has done before. Bravo chaps and carry on and ignore all of the na sayers. To all of you seasoned pilots shame on you for bashing something new - therefore as captain kirk said "mAKE IT SO"OR WAS IT CAPTAIN PICARD?
Long time aviation dude.........................................
Long time aviation dude.........................................
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Guys,
Here is the gurantees with Oxford Aviation Academy/ Flybe MPL scheme. Flybe is a low cost carrier in the UK.
Do Clark non-cebu pacific cadets have any gurantees like this?
A large investment is being made by the school in case anything goes wrong. This is how risky it is in Europe. How about SE Asia?
Here is the gurantees with Oxford Aviation Academy/ Flybe MPL scheme. Flybe is a low cost carrier in the UK.
Do Clark non-cebu pacific cadets have any gurantees like this?
The following guarantees are in place:
MPL to CPL/IR Guarantee: MPL is a brand new and highly innovative programme. Whilst we are fully confident that it represents the future route to commercial pilot training, we also wish to protect participants from any unforeseen risk in undertaking this first ever UK based scheme. In the very unlikely event that any problem does occur, OAA will guarantee to provide, at no cost to the selected students, any additional flight training required to convert to a standard CPL/IR licence. This will ensure that graduates will be eligible to join any airline with the same professional licensing qualification as available to our APPFO students.
Airline Employment Guarantee: Any sponsored or mentored training programme involves a risk – albeit a very small one – that the participating airline might be unable, for reasons outside its control, to offer employment after graduation. For MPL graduates, there is an added potential complication because their licence is directly linked to employment by the airline involved. Under current regulations, it cannot readily be transferred to another airline. To guard against this slight risk, OAA will again guarantee to provide, at no cost to the selected student, any additional flight training required to convert to a standard CPL/IR licence. This will ensure that, in the event of such an occurrence, MPL graduates will be able to join any airline with the same professional licensing qualification as available to our APPFO students.
MPL to CPL/IR Guarantee: MPL is a brand new and highly innovative programme. Whilst we are fully confident that it represents the future route to commercial pilot training, we also wish to protect participants from any unforeseen risk in undertaking this first ever UK based scheme. In the very unlikely event that any problem does occur, OAA will guarantee to provide, at no cost to the selected students, any additional flight training required to convert to a standard CPL/IR licence. This will ensure that graduates will be eligible to join any airline with the same professional licensing qualification as available to our APPFO students.
Airline Employment Guarantee: Any sponsored or mentored training programme involves a risk – albeit a very small one – that the participating airline might be unable, for reasons outside its control, to offer employment after graduation. For MPL graduates, there is an added potential complication because their licence is directly linked to employment by the airline involved. Under current regulations, it cannot readily be transferred to another airline. To guard against this slight risk, OAA will again guarantee to provide, at no cost to the selected student, any additional flight training required to convert to a standard CPL/IR licence. This will ensure that, in the event of such an occurrence, MPL graduates will be able to join any airline with the same professional licensing qualification as available to our APPFO students.
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betpumps
tangang tanga nga! see i can still speak it too!
(Big indiots indeed!)
the last time i inquired about 2 weeks ago i was told that the school already has a TRTO license from the CAAP. They don't own the A320 sim (because that is owned by Cebu) but they do manage it for 5J. In fact Zest Air is moving all their A320 sim training to Clark instead of HK. (Zest Air guys pls you are welcome to correct me if i am wrong) So if CA plays it well, they can actually offer a better product than what OAA has in mind because they can offer A320 TR.
What CA is reportedly just waiting for is to get the CPL IR license and they will be able to get this option (convert the training to CPL IR PLUS A320 Type Rating) open to non Cebu cadets, IF they want to, knowing that some of the guys may not be willing to wait for the negotiations with some potential airlines to get the MPL. i think that was also the line they told the last batch of cadets who enrolled last January (checked from their marketing guys): if things go wrong, we will shift you to CPL/IR with option also to convert to A320 TR. Clever marketing? maybe, but definitely not a scam.
also i can confirm to you that the 3 5j pilots who got their TAGs already have a "provisional" license, and doing pre employment stuff and airline training from 5J, while waiting for the actual MPL to be issued by CAAP. Once they have that, they can already fly as FOs! wow......
Things are definitely better. Cadets have IN FACT graduated.
I agree, let's ignore the idiots. i have a nagging suspicion that those idiots were the same idiots who nearly ran this school aground and are now bashing the present "Asian" management for doing the stuff they couldn't deliver.
(Big indiots indeed!)the last time i inquired about 2 weeks ago i was told that the school already has a TRTO license from the CAAP. They don't own the A320 sim (because that is owned by Cebu) but they do manage it for 5J. In fact Zest Air is moving all their A320 sim training to Clark instead of HK. (Zest Air guys pls you are welcome to correct me if i am wrong) So if CA plays it well, they can actually offer a better product than what OAA has in mind because they can offer A320 TR.
What CA is reportedly just waiting for is to get the CPL IR license and they will be able to get this option (convert the training to CPL IR PLUS A320 Type Rating) open to non Cebu cadets, IF they want to, knowing that some of the guys may not be willing to wait for the negotiations with some potential airlines to get the MPL. i think that was also the line they told the last batch of cadets who enrolled last January (checked from their marketing guys): if things go wrong, we will shift you to CPL/IR with option also to convert to A320 TR. Clever marketing? maybe, but definitely not a scam.
also i can confirm to you that the 3 5j pilots who got their TAGs already have a "provisional" license, and doing pre employment stuff and airline training from 5J, while waiting for the actual MPL to be issued by CAAP. Once they have that, they can already fly as FOs! wow......
Things are definitely better. Cadets have IN FACT graduated.
I agree, let's ignore the idiots. i have a nagging suspicion that those idiots were the same idiots who nearly ran this school aground and are now bashing the present "Asian" management for doing the stuff they couldn't deliver.
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CA student?
and by the way guys really some people have sick agenda and it's about time i let this out, hoping the other guys here who are interested in a good professional debate rather than mudslinging will support me.
i suspect there is a poser here (whose anonymous ID is riddled with the number of the devil, and who has a penchant for dramatic multiple question marks and exclamation points) and who says this:
investigate 1st before you invest your money. stupidy is the filipino who doesnt want to investigate 1st. thats why they lose their money. i have seen clark A grow from 2005 i was a student who just got tired of the B******T................
i quoted that here because he might edit his remarks later. i must admit this had me stumped. how can he be in CA in 2005 when the school opened in 2006, and the first MPL cadets enrolled in 2007? if he was already with CA in 2005, then he could not be a student.
if he is a real student he could only have gone to CA's flightline to know there are planes there and the place is progressing real concrete steps...
could he be a part of the former management who got CA into all this mess and now is spreading all of these lies to get back at the school?
you guys who think you know more are just working for CA..
this just made me laugh all the way to the comfort room for my morning ritual! aaay the perils of an anonymous forum....
i suspect there is a poser here (whose anonymous ID is riddled with the number of the devil, and who has a penchant for dramatic multiple question marks and exclamation points) and who says this:
investigate 1st before you invest your money. stupidy is the filipino who doesnt want to investigate 1st. thats why they lose their money. i have seen clark A grow from 2005 i was a student who just got tired of the B******T................
i quoted that here because he might edit his remarks later. i must admit this had me stumped. how can he be in CA in 2005 when the school opened in 2006, and the first MPL cadets enrolled in 2007? if he was already with CA in 2005, then he could not be a student.
if he is a real student he could only have gone to CA's flightline to know there are planes there and the place is progressing real concrete steps...
could he be a part of the former management who got CA into all this mess and now is spreading all of these lies to get back at the school?
you guys who think you know more are just working for CA..
this just made me laugh all the way to the comfort room for my morning ritual! aaay the perils of an anonymous forum....
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Good Comments
Cheers to all and especially the smart Phil team in place that replaced the European people who were the root cause of the problems.....
God bless you all and remember every thing that does kill you will make you stronger..........................
God bless you all and remember every thing that does kill you will make you stronger..........................
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MPL at Clark
I've been following this thread since the beginning and it is amazing how some things, and attitudes, change over time. But something does not change: the side tracking of the issues at hand by bringing race and nationality to the front instead of concentrating solely on the problems that require urgent solutions.
CA began operations in early 2007 and the first cadets were supposed to end their MPL training in just over 12 months.
By the end of 2008 CA had 100+ cadets and the question is: How many of those have received their licences and are earning a living as pilots?
I read that there are 3 cadets that have completed the A320 Base Training. Out of 100+ is a very poor performance from CA.
Another point that I read here is that there are self sponsored cadets that have completed their training but are still missing the needed 12 TOs and LDGs to get their licences. What is CA doing to correct this situation and for how long is CA prepared to keep it like this?
I also read that CA intends to set up a CPL/IR/TR training school. When will it begin operations?
If, as someone says in another comment above, CA is willing to provide the self sponsored MPL cadets with alternate CPL/IR/TR licences, when will that take place?
Many many questions that have nothing to do with race or nationality but require answers from the organization (CA).
The answers must come from those who have management responsibilities. Since the original management is no more, does anyone know who is in charge of CA now? Their website does not provide any clarity.
The MPL is the future in the present and CA should be proud of having the guts to break new ground. Don't spoil it by getting a bad name.
Good luck to all and keep your dreams alive.
CA began operations in early 2007 and the first cadets were supposed to end their MPL training in just over 12 months.
By the end of 2008 CA had 100+ cadets and the question is: How many of those have received their licences and are earning a living as pilots?
I read that there are 3 cadets that have completed the A320 Base Training. Out of 100+ is a very poor performance from CA.
Another point that I read here is that there are self sponsored cadets that have completed their training but are still missing the needed 12 TOs and LDGs to get their licences. What is CA doing to correct this situation and for how long is CA prepared to keep it like this?
I also read that CA intends to set up a CPL/IR/TR training school. When will it begin operations?
If, as someone says in another comment above, CA is willing to provide the self sponsored MPL cadets with alternate CPL/IR/TR licences, when will that take place?
Many many questions that have nothing to do with race or nationality but require answers from the organization (CA).
The answers must come from those who have management responsibilities. Since the original management is no more, does anyone know who is in charge of CA now? Their website does not provide any clarity.
The MPL is the future in the present and CA should be proud of having the guts to break new ground. Don't spoil it by getting a bad name.
Good luck to all and keep your dreams alive.
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There is no doubt that CIA was mismanaged from the start. They started during a period of pilot shortages that had not been seen for 10 years, and never seen before in Asia. The basic idea is sound, train a qualified student to acheive the profeciency to fly copilot. But MP and the rest did not understand how to run a training program. They mismanaged almost every part of the program. The one part that I thought was well run was the ground instruction. They started off with a cheap campus (Wagner High School on Clark), Cebu Pacific payed for the A320 sim, and had access to cheap labor and cheap cost of living for instructors. But when you spend your money paying your friends a large salary, and on new SUV's and drivers, put ads up in the local Go-Go bars (not that alot of captains would argue if some of the girls made the program), bought aircraft that had never been used in the RP before at a very high price (probaly consulted the AFP procurment manager on how to get a big payday) and numerous other irregularities. Plus 5J started using ATR's. How do you take a MPL and put him/her in a A320 over other pilots already flying looking for an upgrade? The current attempt to change to a CPL program may work, however there is alot of negative publicity that needs to be overcome. But people should realize the current managers of CIA are not the ones that created this mess, they are working hard to try and make things work. Unfortunitly it is a hard time to do this with the current recession. It does not matter if you like the MPL program, the airlines will go for it because it gives them access to a group of pilots that have incurred a large debt and need to work. It will decrease pilot costs, and that is why they are doing it.
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MPL at Clark
What is under discussion is not the worth of the MPL training but the current problems that the cadets are facing to get a valid and worthy licence.
Many have been there for more than two years and they have neither a MPL or CPL/IR/TR licence that could launch them onto the job market. This is not what CIA promised when they took their money and someone must take responsibility for that.
Besides vague mentions to "current management", does anyone know who is in charge of CIA and answering to the multinational company owner of that business? Is there a third CEO?
Too much murky waters in a lost golden opportunity to lead the MPL world.
Anybody care to clarify?
Many have been there for more than two years and they have neither a MPL or CPL/IR/TR licence that could launch them onto the job market. This is not what CIA promised when they took their money and someone must take responsibility for that.
Besides vague mentions to "current management", does anyone know who is in charge of CIA and answering to the multinational company owner of that business? Is there a third CEO?
Too much murky waters in a lost golden opportunity to lead the MPL world.
Anybody care to clarify?
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???
i still dont see what the managament here at Clark Av have done.. they seem lost for any answers when a student asks them anything.
now dont get me wrong here, im happy for the students who have graduated and are with 5j.. but the fact is that it wasnt the currnet managament that did it. what hae they done except get fatter and and richer.. i remember when they first started here... they showed up in a pair of jeans and t shirt... now you see them dressed in the best suit money can buy... hMMMMM kinda makes you think where the moneys all going right,....im sure they have a very nice house and life style outside of CA while we the students suffer.... hope they can spare some of miss used money and start investing it insead on fuel and spare parts for the planes.. i really would like to finish the flying fase sometime this year...
open your eyes everyone... they did nothing to help us. if anything they ve done nothing but lie to us...
now dont get me wrong here, im happy for the students who have graduated and are with 5j.. but the fact is that it wasnt the currnet managament that did it. what hae they done except get fatter and and richer.. i remember when they first started here... they showed up in a pair of jeans and t shirt... now you see them dressed in the best suit money can buy... hMMMMM kinda makes you think where the moneys all going right,....im sure they have a very nice house and life style outside of CA while we the students suffer.... hope they can spare some of miss used money and start investing it insead on fuel and spare parts for the planes.. i really would like to finish the flying fase sometime this year...
open your eyes everyone... they did nothing to help us. if anything they ve done nothing but lie to us...
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?
and where is Fernanez
you seem to have gotten very quiet... is it cause CA has nothing to offer you... have you opened your eyes finally and seen that they are screwing you big time...
wheres your updates and all that...
and dont tell me that you are busy... cause we all know its not true.
why dont you just say whats on your mind.say the truth
you seem to have gotten very quiet... is it cause CA has nothing to offer you... have you opened your eyes finally and seen that they are screwing you big time...
wheres your updates and all that...
and dont tell me that you are busy... cause we all know its not true.
why dont you just say whats on your mind.say the truth
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traveller93
What is under discussion is not the worth of the MPL training but the current problems that the cadets are facing to get a valid and worthy licence.
i agree totally. my own concern, as a prospective MPL cadet (am maybe too old for CPL track hehe
), is how CA plans to solve the situation of the non cebu pacific cadets.
as a filam, i have no interest in a european or mideast license as i would prefer to relocate in the Phils. there are many more like me here in the US, so we are looking at the situation in CA with extreme interest.
i agree totally. my own concern, as a prospective MPL cadet (am maybe too old for CPL track hehe
), is how CA plans to solve the situation of the non cebu pacific cadets. as a filam, i have no interest in a european or mideast license as i would prefer to relocate in the Phils. there are many more like me here in the US, so we are looking at the situation in CA with extreme interest.
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paolylo
wow that's exciting news! could you give any more comments? how are they performing? where are they flying? what's their program? any details will be very much appreciated.