Clark Institute of Aviation
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I don't disagree with what Lolo says, however as it stands to issue an MPL Licence, the CAAP as an ICAO signatory, have to abide by ICAO PANS TRG. They can't just pick items they like and discard those they don't!
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PANS training vs SARPs
But isn't PANS supposed to be of lesser authoritativeness than SARPs? meaning while any variance on the SARPs will require the ICAO member state to file for differences of practice with ICAO (which will then "judge" if the difference filing is merited and other ICAO member states may choose to withdraw certain privileges granted to the "differing" state), the PANS do not require such notice of difference? in other words, a member such as CAAP precisely can pick those they want and discard those they don't?
for instance, if i remember correctly, the MPL in PANS 9868 is supposed to be for turbine powered engine only, but FLybe of UK is doing it for turboprops. this difference would not have been possible if the MPL is a SARPs document rather than a PANS. So how is UK able to deviate from the MPL but not Phils? i hope we get informed comments, rather than the usual racist sh*t.
for instance, if i remember correctly, the MPL in PANS 9868 is supposed to be for turbine powered engine only, but FLybe of UK is doing it for turboprops. this difference would not have been possible if the MPL is a SARPs document rather than a PANS. So how is UK able to deviate from the MPL but not Phils? i hope we get informed comments, rather than the usual racist sh*t.
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for instance, if i remember correctly, the MPL in PANS 9868 is supposed to be for turbine powered engine only, but FLybe of UK is doing it for turboprops.
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Lolo said
"I think we've gone as far as we can with this forum. When the answers do come, hopefully they will be reported here. As for those who so kindly brought to the public's attention some of the challenges at Clark, I say: the cadets here aren't naive or stupid; we know what's what. We also figure that ICAO/CAAP will do what they are being paid to do--make sure that noone graduates with a 'worthless license'."
So, it seems that Lolo is now controlling what and who is allowed to post on this forum.... Naive, to say the least.
I stand by my statement that the MPL is, at the moment, a worthless licence unless the ICAO rules/law changes to make it a GA licence not depending on any sponsoring airline SOPs. And I'm not the only one making that afirmation here.
Does Lolo know how long it will take ICAO to make those necessary changes? I doubt....
Does Lolo understand the reach of his statement:
"We also figure that ICAO/CAAP will do what they are being paid to do--make sure that noone graduates with a 'worthless license'" ?
Surely Lolo does not know, or has forgotten, that ICAO is part of the UNO and CAAP is a branch of the Philippines Government. One makes the licensing rules, the other ensures that, once accepted, those rules are followed followed by the FTOs which, clearly, Alpha Aviation did not.
Where does the "...being paid to do..." come into?
Lolo does not like questions.... but questions must be asked to make him (and others that try the "flowery route") explain, in clear terms, how the rosy MPL holders future will come to be in countries where that licence has not yet been put into the statute books (some 99% of them)? And ICAO cannot force them....
So, what about it Lolo?
"I think we've gone as far as we can with this forum. When the answers do come, hopefully they will be reported here. As for those who so kindly brought to the public's attention some of the challenges at Clark, I say: the cadets here aren't naive or stupid; we know what's what. We also figure that ICAO/CAAP will do what they are being paid to do--make sure that noone graduates with a 'worthless license'."
So, it seems that Lolo is now controlling what and who is allowed to post on this forum.... Naive, to say the least.
I stand by my statement that the MPL is, at the moment, a worthless licence unless the ICAO rules/law changes to make it a GA licence not depending on any sponsoring airline SOPs. And I'm not the only one making that afirmation here.
Does Lolo know how long it will take ICAO to make those necessary changes? I doubt....
Does Lolo understand the reach of his statement:
"We also figure that ICAO/CAAP will do what they are being paid to do--make sure that noone graduates with a 'worthless license'" ?
Surely Lolo does not know, or has forgotten, that ICAO is part of the UNO and CAAP is a branch of the Philippines Government. One makes the licensing rules, the other ensures that, once accepted, those rules are followed followed by the FTOs which, clearly, Alpha Aviation did not.
Where does the "...being paid to do..." come into?
Lolo does not like questions.... but questions must be asked to make him (and others that try the "flowery route") explain, in clear terms, how the rosy MPL holders future will come to be in countries where that licence has not yet been put into the statute books (some 99% of them)? And ICAO cannot force them....
So, what about it Lolo?
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I stand by my statement that the MPL is, at the moment, a worthless licence unless the ICAO rules/law changes to make it a GA licence not depending on any sponsoring airline SOPs. And I'm not the only one making that afirmation here.
What we are pointing out is that CA/CAAP/ICAO are all adapting to the needs. And it does not take a day or two.. it takes months.
Making it a GA license and not depending on any sponsoring airline SOPs? If you are really indepth with whats going around CA/CAAP/ICAO, they have been planning this for months already. CA has given them proposals already. Atfirst ICAO and CAAP didnt like the idea but eventually, CAAP agreed on something. (hmm.. what did they agree upon? well, you're indepth knowledge with whats happening means you know whats cooking for months)
While this suggestions sounds good, making a MPL GA license might be a blunder also. What happens when CA has already given a nonsponsored student his/her 12 TAGS? He gets his license yet doesnt have an airline to work on. And, thats even worthless if he doesnt get an airline in 6months?! What makes the MPL supposedly attractive is that there's an airline waiting for you to continue and finalize your training on the type specific equipment. All these has been messed up when the first management accepted non-sponsored cadets. And yes, the current CA management is working on something for these nonsponsored cadets.
Lucky for Filipino nonsponsored cadets is that PAL, Cebu Pac and Zestair has almost the same SOPs. So, whatever training nonsponsored students get here, it will be easier for them to adapt to the company SOPs.
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From a moderation standpoint, this thread is becoming tiresome. It generates more complaints in this one forum than any other. It is clear that it has become too large and seems to perpetuate (in part) with some users simply typing to their own alter egos!
Get it back on track fast or it terminates!
Get it back on track fast or it terminates!
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From a moderation standpoint, this thread is becoming tiresome. It generates more complaints in this one forum than any other. It is clear that it has become too large and seems to perpetuate (in part) with some users simply typing to their own alter egos!
Get it back on track fast or it terminates!
Get it back on track fast or it terminates!
I find the topic interesting reading and ignore the following (to quote one contributor):
So this leaves the rest of us to post a bunch of circular questions, periodically interrupted by teen-agers, or unhappy pilots/bitter ex-Clark staff, or just cretins who are able to touch-type...
We also figure that ICAO/CAAP will do what they are being paid to do--make sure that no one graduates with a 'worthless license'. This isn't Nigeria!*
So girls & boys, don't upset our moderator - this is supposed to be a PROFESSIONAL pilots' network - or we get a meltdown.
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message for rq4globalhawk
Ah, yes, it's you Lolo, whom I quoted ... which shows you're one of the level-headed ones whose contributions I read.
In closing, you expressly stated that you meant no disrespect to teenagers and Nigerians (and rightfully so - their NCAA may return to FAA Category 1 earlier than CAAP) - that was good.
To the rest of the group: criticism is fine, fellows, but let us keep it constructive.
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Oh, sorry fellows, that was bad editing on my part. I had my type on Bold - makes one appear to be screaming. By the way, I'm one of Lolo's touch-typing cretins. I never really learned to type fast, except on the MCDU. Have a nice day everyone, got to move on to other forums.
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Hi Lolo,
Can you please shed some light on Nigerian issue? I mean is there anyone from Nigeria in Clark, Management, Student? or what you are trying to refer to? or things are damnn in Nigeria?
Can you please shed some light on Nigerian issue? I mean is there anyone from Nigeria in Clark, Management, Student? or what you are trying to refer to? or things are damnn in Nigeria?
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non-Manila based
"All MPL cadets that bupak will hire is set to be based in cebu, davao or clark..............so there. enough said."
So what does that mean if they would not be based in Manila?
So what does that mean if they would not be based in Manila?
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hmmmmmmmmmm very positve comment
You must be a rocket scientist to make this comment or just part of the same snake hesds who tried to ruin a good thing - which is it ///traveller93 ha we all know who you are
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Your comment, and manners, only shows how little you know.... (obviously you have not been at CIA long....).
Nevertheless, everybody should only worry about getting all the poor cadets qualified and earning a living.
Nevertheless, everybody should only worry about getting all the poor cadets qualified and earning a living.
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It is evident that the point is being missed by some here that keep on trumpeting the "good news" about the CIA "success".... which is desired but seems to be very difficult to achieve.
In two and half years of MPL training program, how many pilots graduated besides the three at 5J?
Other schools around the world have completed the training program within the time frame set by ICAO.
I fail to see the relevancy of posting news about the China aviation on this thread. Unless CIA has a contract to supply pilots to that market....
I don't think so.
In two and half years of MPL training program, how many pilots graduated besides the three at 5J?
Other schools around the world have completed the training program within the time frame set by ICAO.
I fail to see the relevancy of posting news about the China aviation on this thread. Unless CIA has a contract to supply pilots to that market....
I don't think so.
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traveller93
In two and half years of MPL training program, how many pilots graduated besides the three at 5J?
3 are in their IOE stage in 5J
8 are in their OBS stage in 5J
11 finished their BOM and waiting for the 12 TAGS with 5J
20++ finished their a320 checkride already with clark av. Awaiting for 5J to absorb them. (so the ball is already with 5Js court, not clark av)
simply means... thats atleast 41 cadets finished with Clark Av already.
41 cadets in 2 and a half years? thats fairly average considering its a new program, a new school, newly established CAAP.