Is Ukraine about to have a war?

[Old_Slartibartfast]

Originally Posted by Herod

With the temperature dropping rapidly, and many civilians without power, does anyone know of plans to send portable generators out to Ukraine? I imagine the military of the various nations have some pretty big ones.

I was thinking along the same lines, but I suspect the logistics of fuelling them is a bigger problem to tackle. If Ukraine can get over to the left bank of the Dnipro near Kherson and then move north, pushing Russians out of that region then they may be able to recapture the big power station at Zaporizhzhia. That used to supply 20% of Ukraine's power, so if they could get that back on line then it would be a better bet than a few tens of thousands of gen sets.

[Bengo]

Big power stations are not much use without a distribution network. Big transformers to get from generated voltage to transmission voltage , as high as 275 kV, and back down again. Switching yards, power pylons and wires are also needed. Some bits are easier to renew than others so it will depend on exactly what has been damaged, where.

Multiple generators producing power at the use voltage are much easier to connect to small groups of buildings, provided you do not need to network them, or take the power far from where it was generated.

N

[Old_Slartibartfast]

Originally Posted by Bengo

Big power stations are not much use without a distribution network. Big transformers to get from generated voltage to transmission voltage , as high as 275 kV, and back down again. Switching yards, power pylons and wires are also needed. Some bits are easier to renew than others so it will depend on exactly what has been damaged, where.

Multiple generators producing power at the use voltage are much easier to connect to small groups of buildings, provided you do not need to network them, or take the power far from where it was generated.

N

I agree, but Zaporizhzhia can generate 5,7000MW, it's the largest power station in the whole of Europe. The biggest portable generators top out at around 18kW, the biggest truck mounted generators top out at about 1.5MW. The sums are not in favour of using even big truck mounted generators (and by big I mean artic sized) as thousands would be needed to generate as much as Zaporizhzhia. If the connections to the Ukrainian power grid can be fixed, then I suspect that is less work than trying to find and ship thousands of generators, and find a way to keep them fuelled and maintained until next spring.

[ChrisVJ]

Is not relying on one big station far too vulnerable? One good missile and you are bereft. Distributed networks, however clumsy, are far harder to destroy.

[Old_Slartibartfast]

Originally Posted by ChrisVJ

Is not relying on one big station far too vulnerable? One good missile and you are bereft. Distributed networks, however clumsy, are far harder to destroy.

The power station in question has had a team of international safety experts based there for some weeks now, just to try and act as a deterrent to either side bombing the place. I believe that Russia has agreed not to (although I'm not sure that's worth much), but there could be a case for putting the Zaporizhzhia power station under the control of a neutral state, just because of the immense consequences of bombing Europe's largest nuclear power plant. It would make Chernobyl look small by comparison if that were to happen.

[NutLoose]

Originally Posted by ChrisVJ

Is not relying on one big station far too vulnerable? One good missile and you are bereft. Distributed networks, however clumsy, are far harder to destroy.

These are what they need.

https://www.ft.com/content/ba6bd46a-...a-43db76e69936

As for joining NATO when they eject Russia, if that isn’t a viable goer due to parts of NATO not agreeing then perhaps permanent bases with NATO aircraft in country at say a couple of airfields etc may deter them.

[fdr]

Originally Posted by pasta

The more I think about this, the more I think that any viable peace deal has to include an acceptance from Russia that Ukraine may join NATO. That's the only meaningful reassurance any Russian administration could give that there won't be a rematch. Without that (and I'm not sure it's achievable) I think we're heading for another uneasy standoff...

There would be no need to join NATO if the UN actually abided by Art. 27(3) and reverted to historical precedent on the meaning of the words, that there is actually no Veto power where the PM that is wanting to "just say No", when they are one of the belligerents are automatically required to abstain from a vote, and that abstention is not nor should it ever have been considered a Veto. That is what the rule says, yet here we are today as the UN is such a dysfunctional system they selectively apply the rules and then feign disappointment that the rule that they misapply stops them having to make a decision. I would contend that the UN as it is run at present is a clear and present danger to civilisation, and needs to be replaced with an institution that actually does the one thing it was supposed to do.

Until then, there is always Paris NATO, or a collective announcement of UN states that they will defend any country that is attacked by [Fill in any term describing Russia, e.g., CIS, RF, Russia, Wish I was a Soviet empire etc...]

[NutLoose]

They found an abandoned wounded Russian

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...C-heiA0aEsAAAA

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Twitter

[rattman]

Originally Posted by Herod

With the temperature dropping rapidly, and many civilians without power, does anyone know of plans to send portable generators out to Ukraine? I imagine the military of the various nations have some pretty big ones.

germany is, they are also requesting that civilians evacuate from Kherson and Mykoliv

[NutLoose]

Arresting a couple of Russian soldiers that refuse to take part in the war, watch the film, the cell door in the back of the van has holes in it to allow air in for them to breath, but the outer door has none..

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...C-7Zf-pqEsAAAA

Twitter

[Wokkafans]

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/...i9L_zQAmFBs1kQ

Twitter

[NutLoose]

Cling film tents, Russias latest equipment.

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/...64758267019266

Twitter

[megan]

the van has holes in it to allow air in for them to breath, but the [b]outer door has none..

Probably to prevent the redirected exhaust gases from escaping

[NutLoose]

Those Russians caught up in it all.

https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/10/...new-residence/

[NutLoose]

Originally Posted by Herod

With the temperature dropping rapidly, and many civilians without power, does anyone know of plans to send portable generators out to Ukraine? I imagine the military of the various nations have some pretty big ones.

Lots are, way back in March the U.K. had supplied over 500 alone, Germany has sent over 2400 so far

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1594038302465822726

Twitter

[NutLoose]

Nothing like treating your troops well, and this is nothing like treating them well.

https://twitter.com/LvivJournal/stat...CxkYesmKEsAAAA

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Twitter

[Beamr]

Originally Posted by Herod

With the temperature dropping rapidly, and many civilians without power, does anyone know of plans to send portable generators out to Ukraine? I imagine the military of the various nations have some pretty big ones.

Even private companies are sending rather efficient ones, Here's a story of two that were sent to Ukraine last week with combined total power of 1.2MW by an anonymous Finnish company. Apparently other one is today running a hospital in Kropyvnytskyi and other one is on a flatbed being delivered where ever most needed.

https://fb.watch/gY9zStlzf5/

[ORAC]

https://twitter.com/chuckpfarrer/sta...6x5_3pnXeVKK2w

THE DUMP OF THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER:

Searchers in Kherson have discovered that departing Russians used a local landfill to dump and burn the corpses of their own dead soldiers. Some were burned, others merely buried in trash.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...son-landfillIn



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[ORAC]

https://twitter.com/g900ap/status/15...6x5_3pnXeVKK2w

NATO Parliamentary Assembly now recognizes Russia as terrorist state. All 30 #NATO countries #supported the proposals of the delegation. NATO call for setting up a special tribunal for Russian warcrimes.

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[Herod]

Nice to see the responses to my query about generators. Seems a lot are going out. Of course they can't replace a power station, but if the hospitals and the vulnerable can be helped through the winter it's a huge bonus.