Is Ukraine about to have a war?
This smacks of desperation and scrambled thinking. That is truly frightening: I don't mind if they spout sh1t and nonsense to the world, but I do mind if they are losing the plot as well as the war.
Fortunately Ukraine is not at the top of the news here, or bog rolls, bottled water, pasta and paracetamol would be flying off the shelves again.
German press is saying that BK Scholz is trying to have his cake and eat it in regard to armour to Ukraine. The current proposal before the Bundestag links the supply of armour ( very urgent ) with the proposal to increase Bundeswehr spending by E 100 Mrd ( not very urgent ) , presumably in the hope that he can look like a good guy without actually doing anything (parliamentary log-jam ). The CDU parliamentary leadership has called out this political manoeuvring, saying they will not support this (their votes are needed to pass the motion ) and the two matters need to be split to allow urgent supply to Ukraine.
There also seems possible political deviousness afoot as regards the Gepard AA tanks. The German offer includes no ammo and the Ukrainians say that that renders the Gepard useless for them: one wonders if this is Scholz and his lukewarm defence-minister, Lambrecht, playing silly buggers (see next para )
I don't know how special this ammo is, but it has been reported that Switzerland will not allow supplies already delivered to Germany to be re-exported to Ukraine
There also seems possible political deviousness afoot as regards the Gepard AA tanks. The German offer includes no ammo and the Ukrainians say that that renders the Gepard useless for them: one wonders if this is Scholz and his lukewarm defence-minister, Lambrecht, playing silly buggers (see next para )
I don't know how special this ammo is, but it has been reported that Switzerland will not allow supplies already delivered to Germany to be re-exported to Ukraine
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Yes problem sorted, Brazil will supply 300,000 rounds for the Gerard’s, Germany only had 23,000 and Switzerland wouldn’t supply anymore.
I would imagine the Gepards will munch through that lot quickly. That’s only 6000 per vehicle. Romania also has Gepards and apparently produces ammo for them.
Various sources.
I would imagine the Gepards will munch through that lot quickly. That’s only 6000 per vehicle. Romania also has Gepards and apparently produces ammo for them.
The Gepard is armed with two 35mm Oerlikon KDA autocannon, making it one of the most powerful self-propelled anti-aircraft guns in existence. Each gun fires at 550 rpm and is supplied with 320 HE rounds plus 20 AP rounds for use against ground targets. The effective AA range is 3.5 km with standard rounds and up to 4.5 km with FAPDS rounds. In a normal engagement 20 to 40 rounds are fired at a single target.
Each gun has a firing rate of 550 rounds/min, which gives a continuous fire time of 37 seconds before running out of ammo (with 680 rounds for both guns).
Last edited by NutLoose; 27th Apr 2022 at 17:23.
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He knows he’s losing big time, same with Laugharov, it all smacks of desperation. The only country interfering in Ukraine is Russia.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61224804
- Russia's president says any country interfering in Ukraine will be met with a "lightning-fast" response
- Vladimir Putin says Russia will use "tools no one else can boast of having" if anyone "creates unacceptable threats"
- Russian energy giant Gazprom says it has cut gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria over their refusal to pay in roubles
- The EU accuses Russia of using energy to try to blackmail countries supporting Ukraine
- Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has meanwhile accused Russian special services of carrying out attacks in a breakaway region of Moldova
On cost-effectiveness, a single F-16A is worth about 350 Stingers. Can't do much with one F-16, so bring that up to say 24, if you get drivers, and that is a lot of stingers. And I like the F-16. Flying around Tyndall when they did the first F-16 drone shoots was depressing, it was bad enough watching F-4s get used as drones.
The more interesting issue is that Ukraine has lost a fair number of aircraft, not that many less than the invaders. They have suppressed air activity, but so has the limited number of S-300s and the more prevalent MANPADS. The Ukraine FIR is not a healthy place to be, well at least for Ka-52 and SU-34 drivers.
F-16 or similar aircraft offer an opportunity to take some interdiction into Russia's supply chain, however, as incompetent as F-Troop has been so far, they have enough stuff to toss at strike packages to make that expensive. Some merit for ALCM, and ARM, when well within their own turf, but any flight that they go on will be effectively wild weasel no matter what it was fragged as.
Have both, nothing wrong with system redundancy, but I would be expecting more effect from rat cunning asymmetric postures, using cruise missiles, MANPADS at every opportunity, and gallons of ATWs, not even only smart ones.
With respect to the SBS position on the allied bombing, it seemed to be myopic and to have a bias towards a political statement rather than a balance of factors. The fact that accuracy was low on daylight and night bombing did not account for the amount of effort that was required by the other side to defend against the attacks. That strained resources, and put equipment into areas away from where they could have otherwise been used. Much as the odd occasional media story results in re-allocation of systems as a threat awareness arises. Who is to say whether a threat is actually any less effective than an action, depends on what the objective was. Harris was treated poorly by his own country, and that is still a matter to be rectified.
A few squadrons of F-22 and F-35 would be nice, their life expectancy would be OK in the air, just being on the ground would be unhealthy.
The more interesting issue is that Ukraine has lost a fair number of aircraft, not that many less than the invaders. They have suppressed air activity, but so has the limited number of S-300s and the more prevalent MANPADS. The Ukraine FIR is not a healthy place to be, well at least for Ka-52 and SU-34 drivers.
F-16 or similar aircraft offer an opportunity to take some interdiction into Russia's supply chain, however, as incompetent as F-Troop has been so far, they have enough stuff to toss at strike packages to make that expensive. Some merit for ALCM, and ARM, when well within their own turf, but any flight that they go on will be effectively wild weasel no matter what it was fragged as.
Have both, nothing wrong with system redundancy, but I would be expecting more effect from rat cunning asymmetric postures, using cruise missiles, MANPADS at every opportunity, and gallons of ATWs, not even only smart ones.
With respect to the SBS position on the allied bombing, it seemed to be myopic and to have a bias towards a political statement rather than a balance of factors. The fact that accuracy was low on daylight and night bombing did not account for the amount of effort that was required by the other side to defend against the attacks. That strained resources, and put equipment into areas away from where they could have otherwise been used. Much as the odd occasional media story results in re-allocation of systems as a threat awareness arises. Who is to say whether a threat is actually any less effective than an action, depends on what the objective was. Harris was treated poorly by his own country, and that is still a matter to be rectified.
A few squadrons of F-22 and F-35 would be nice, their life expectancy would be OK in the air, just being on the ground would be unhealthy.
In the locker.
He knows he’s losing big time, same with Laugharov, it all smacks of desperation. The only country interfering in Ukraine is Russia.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61224804
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61224804
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US is struggling to restart Stinger and Javelin production as the DOD haven’t bought a Stinger in 18 years and several parts are no longer built, I am surprised they appear to be hand built.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...quickly-enough
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...quickly-enough
UAWIRE (dunno about their veracity or not) are reporting that M270's were first used by ukrainian forces on the 22/23rd.
M270's + atacms could start to explain some of these unexplainable spontanious combustions happening in russia
M270's + atacms could start to explain some of these unexplainable spontanious combustions happening in russia
The age-old problem with dictatorships, aside from the limited input from advisors and experts, was that the public would always tacitly and implicitly withdraw its support as news from the front grew ominous. Even - or rather especially - under autocracies, the people never felt accountable for their prior ecstatic allegiance to dangerous strongmen. They are never on record as formally approving risky national policies through free and transparent elections of such extremists in the first place.
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I have a question for you all re the link and post below..
why would they put off the sham vote, is it because they do not hold the full territory, or is it because that by recognising them in the rigged vote and absorbing them into the Russian Federation, it would then result in triggering their supposed nuclear threats to launch if their sovereignty was ever invaded, which it would then become as the Donbas would in effect be recognised by Russia as ermmm Russia?
And as the DNR and LNR are such Russian loving enclaves welcoming Russia in as independent states hoping to become part of Russia, I did find the following rather amusing, strange for a Russian loving and embracing “independent enclave”
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/04/28/change-of-plans
why would they put off the sham vote, is it because they do not hold the full territory, or is it because that by recognising them in the rigged vote and absorbing them into the Russian Federation, it would then result in triggering their supposed nuclear threats to launch if their sovereignty was ever invaded, which it would then become as the Donbas would in effect be recognised by Russia as ermmm Russia?
And as the DNR and LNR are such Russian loving enclaves welcoming Russia in as independent states hoping to become part of Russia, I did find the following rather amusing, strange for a Russian loving and embracing “independent enclave”
However, the effort to recruit political strategists destined for the DNR and LNR hasn’t been going very well,
The political officers are needed in order to maintain power in the occupied territories. So the population doesn’t shoot them in the back,” one of Meduza’s sources explained
The political officers are needed in order to maintain power in the occupied territories. So the population doesn’t shoot them in the back,” one of Meduza’s sources explained
As Moscow’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine enters its third month, the Russian Defense Ministry has officially declared that its main aim has shifted to taking “full control” of the Donbas and southern Ukraine. According to Meduza’s sources close to the Kremlin, establishing “full control” will involve orchestrating pseudo-referendums on the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk “People’s Republics” joining the Russian Federation — and on Russian-occupied Kherson declaring independence from Ukraine. However, these “referendums” have already been postponed until May, allegedly due Russia’s military failures in Ukraine.
According to three Meduza sources close to Putin’s administration, the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk “People’s Republics” (the DNR and LNR) may be set to hold Kremlin-engineered referendums on joining the Russian Federation in mid-May. Two of these people even gave specific dates for the planned “votes” — May 14 and 15, 2022.
Russia recognized the DNR and LNR as independent states just days before launching its full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022. In doing so, Moscow acknowledged their territorial claims to the entirety of Ukraine’s Donetsk and Luhansk regions — implying that Russia would be seeking to annex the “republics” within these boundaries (despite the fact that Kyiv still controls many large settlements in the Donbas).
According to Meduza’s sources, another pseudo-referendum may also be held on these same dates in Ukraine’s Kherson region, which Russian forces have partially occupied. Allegedly, the “vote” would be on the issue of the occupied region declaring independence from Ukraine and proclaiming itself the “Kherson People’s Republic” (modeled on those in the Donbas). Meduza’s sources also believe that Russia could move to annex the region at a later date.
At the same time, Meduza’s sources noted that these “referendums” were initially set for late April, but were postponed several times due to the Russian army’s failures at the front. As such, they said, the dates could very well be pushed again for the same reason.
Notably, Meduza’s sources close to the Kremlin underscored that officials in Putin’s administration don’t think Russia should annex these “depressed regions” of Ukraine. Nevertheless, this is the personal desire of the “top leadership” — that is, of Putin himself.
The DNR and LNR authorities did not respond to Meduza’s inquiries. In March, DNR leader Denis Pushilin and LNR leader Leonid Pasechnik mentioned plans to hold referendums on joining Russia — but only after Donetsk and Luhansk establish control over their “constitutional borders.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov didn’t respond to Meduza’s questions either.
These same political strategists will act as “political officers” (one of Meduza’s sources described the role using the Soviet-era term politruk) in the “military-civilian administrations” that are set to be installed in Ukrainian cities occupied by the Russian army.
However, the effort to recruit political strategists destined for the DNR and LNR hasn’t been going very well, Meduza’s sources said. Allegedly, this is because the Kremlin is still offering the usual “pre-war rate” for working in the Donbas — between 200,000 and 300,000 rubles (roughly $2,700–$4,000) per month.
”The political officers] are needed in order to maintain power in the occupied territories. So the population doesn’t shoot them in the back,” one of Meduza’s sources explained. “Right now, in many places, there are actually Ukrainian administrations that influence people’s beliefs. This needs to be countered.”
According to three Meduza sources close to Putin’s administration, the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk “People’s Republics” (the DNR and LNR) may be set to hold Kremlin-engineered referendums on joining the Russian Federation in mid-May. Two of these people even gave specific dates for the planned “votes” — May 14 and 15, 2022.
Russia recognized the DNR and LNR as independent states just days before launching its full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022. In doing so, Moscow acknowledged their territorial claims to the entirety of Ukraine’s Donetsk and Luhansk regions — implying that Russia would be seeking to annex the “republics” within these boundaries (despite the fact that Kyiv still controls many large settlements in the Donbas).
According to Meduza’s sources, another pseudo-referendum may also be held on these same dates in Ukraine’s Kherson region, which Russian forces have partially occupied. Allegedly, the “vote” would be on the issue of the occupied region declaring independence from Ukraine and proclaiming itself the “Kherson People’s Republic” (modeled on those in the Donbas). Meduza’s sources also believe that Russia could move to annex the region at a later date.
At the same time, Meduza’s sources noted that these “referendums” were initially set for late April, but were postponed several times due to the Russian army’s failures at the front. As such, they said, the dates could very well be pushed again for the same reason.
Notably, Meduza’s sources close to the Kremlin underscored that officials in Putin’s administration don’t think Russia should annex these “depressed regions” of Ukraine. Nevertheless, this is the personal desire of the “top leadership” — that is, of Putin himself.
The DNR and LNR authorities did not respond to Meduza’s inquiries. In March, DNR leader Denis Pushilin and LNR leader Leonid Pasechnik mentioned plans to hold referendums on joining Russia — but only after Donetsk and Luhansk establish control over their “constitutional borders.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov didn’t respond to Meduza’s questions either.
‘Political officers’ wanted
According to Meduza’s sources, preparations for the “referendums” in the DNR, LNR, and Kherson region will be handled by political strategists; Andrey Yarin and the FSB have been put in charge of hiring them. The FSB Public Relations Center did not respond to Meduza’s inquiries.These same political strategists will act as “political officers” (one of Meduza’s sources described the role using the Soviet-era term politruk) in the “military-civilian administrations” that are set to be installed in Ukrainian cities occupied by the Russian army.
However, the effort to recruit political strategists destined for the DNR and LNR hasn’t been going very well, Meduza’s sources said. Allegedly, this is because the Kremlin is still offering the usual “pre-war rate” for working in the Donbas — between 200,000 and 300,000 rubles (roughly $2,700–$4,000) per month.
”The political officers] are needed in order to maintain power in the occupied territories. So the population doesn’t shoot them in the back,” one of Meduza’s sources explained. “Right now, in many places, there are actually Ukrainian administrations that influence people’s beliefs. This needs to be countered.”
Last edited by NutLoose; 28th Apr 2022 at 01:07.
Putin could then say that it was a choice of the people to join Russia. A pathetic attempt to make it all seem legal. Doesn't work externally but might work internally. Putin is obsessed in trying to make everything seem legal to keep his nest clean.
what comes to political instructors, this leaflet from 1940's will come handy once again: "Politruk is worse than enemy. He shoots you in the back."
what comes to political instructors, this leaflet from 1940's will come handy once again: "Politruk is worse than enemy. He shoots you in the back."
Answer. They put off the ‘vote’ until after the victory celebrations are over. (Safer done quietly and with much force, but might take time to squash inevitable short-term opposition and silence the general population).
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The reason the Ukrainian airforce survived. 
I cannot believe the US is releasing this stuff, 1 it shows your capability and 2 it’s piss poor security.. either that or it’s a bloody big bluff to make the Russians believe the NATO intelligence gathering is better than they think.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...m_npd_nn_tw_ma
I cannot believe the US is releasing this stuff, 1 it shows your capability and 2 it’s piss poor security.. either that or it’s a bloody big bluff to make the Russians believe the NATO intelligence gathering is better than they think.
Ukrainian forces have used specific coordinates shared by the U.S. to direct fire on Russian positions and aircraft, current and former officials tell NBC News.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...m_npd_nn_tw_ma
I have a question for you all re the link and post below..
why would they put off the sham vote, is it because they do not hold the full territory, or is it because that by recognising them in the rigged vote and absorbing them into the Russian Federation, it would then result in triggering their supposed nuclear threats to launch if their sovereignty was ever invaded, which it would then become as the Donbas would in effect be recognised by Russia as ermmm Russia?
And as the DNR and LNR are such Russian loving enclaves welcoming Russia in as independent states hoping to become part of Russia, I did find the following rather amusing, strange for a Russian loving and embracing “independent enclave”
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/04/28/change-of-plans
why would they put off the sham vote, is it because they do not hold the full territory, or is it because that by recognising them in the rigged vote and absorbing them into the Russian Federation, it would then result in triggering their supposed nuclear threats to launch if their sovereignty was ever invaded, which it would then become as the Donbas would in effect be recognised by Russia as ermmm Russia?
And as the DNR and LNR are such Russian loving enclaves welcoming Russia in as independent states hoping to become part of Russia, I did find the following rather amusing, strange for a Russian loving and embracing “independent enclave”
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/04/28/change-of-plans
This is F-Troops concept of Free and Fair Elections.
Hint to F-Troop: If you can't get people to fudge your ballot boxes as they are not happy with the concept that they will NOT be shot in the back, it probably suggests you aren't welcome.
It barely rises to a level of legitimacy of a royal dcree by us that Moscow Peoples Republik is hereby announced, and henceforce, all Moscovies are no longer required to undertake service in the armed forces of the illegitimate occupier, Russia. As we, the MPR also have a historical association with the people of St Petersberg, we notify the occupier that from 1 April 2022, we by decree and by follow up bogus oops, referendum by ballot declare the area below as a self-declared Federation To Restore Oblast Of Pukin. F-TROOP.
F-TROOP declares that trhey will hold free and fair elections for self-determination of the area indicated below, on 32 April 2022, and the results were a resounding defeat for the current occupier, who were routed, 99.9% for F-TROOP and 0.09% for the incumbent, Joseph Stalin, (deceased, no flowers please).
Following these free and fair elections and the establishment of F-TROOP, a tax-free haven, F-TROOP will be applying for EU membership, and for joining NATO. Due to the recent misfortunes of the occupiers, F-TROOP will be establishing a cake sale and a crowdfunding campaign to buy one slightly used T-72 that is currently in need of a tractor tow from it's present illegal parking spot in a nearby country that F-TROOP will be establishing CER with. F-TROOP is in need of a T-72 turret for it's defense force of the aforementioned 1 x T-72, if any scrap metal remains from the occupiers' generals selling tank barrels for kopeks, one barrel and attachments, being a turret assembly would be appreciated.
F-TROOP's tax-free status results from a balanced budget of selling scrap metal from a recent adventure of the occupier, and by conversion of the Kremlin into a Day's Inn, and the Winter Palace into an Air BNB property for backpackers.
An air corridor will be opened up between MDR (formerly moscow) and SPDR (formerly St Petersburg) using state-of-the-art AN-2 aircraft. Limousine travel will be provided by Lada Niva's, as a showpiece of the strength of the Self Declared Area, F-TROOP.
The modern passenger comforts are shown below, Da?
The above suggests that a legitimate declaration of a constituted state has about as much relevance as the person making the declaration. As LPR and DPR (wasn't that already taken? No, that was the DPK, So Kherson is out of luck with any declaration by Pukin) was made by an invader, that suggests that taking on a job that gets you shot in the back for trying to subvert the will of the people, no matter how strident and shrill the call is by the invader, it going to be fraught with short life expectancy.
Why would Russia presume that the Ukrainians will not defend their country with the same or greater intensity and dedication than Russians would to their own home Oblasts?
hu·bris
/ˈ(h)yo͞obrəs/
noun
- excessive pride or self-confidence.
"the self-assured hubris among economists was shaken in the late 1980s"
Last edited by fdr; 28th Apr 2022 at 03:40.
US is struggling to restart Stinger and Javelin production as the DOD haven’t bought a Stinger in 18 years and several parts are no longer built, I am surprised they appear to be hand built.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...quickly-enough
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...quickly-enough
US were buying Grom from Poland because its the most modern and highest spec available in NATO.
The reason the Ukrainian airforce survived. I cannot believe the US is releasing this stuff, 1 it shows your capability and 2 it’s piss poor security.. either that or it’s a bloody big bluff to make the Russians believe the NATO intelligence gathering is better than they think.
I cannot believe the US is releasing this stuff, 1 it shows your capability and 2 it’s piss poor security.. either that or it’s a bloody big bluff to make the Russians believe the NATO intelligence gathering is better than they think.
Still prefer sharks with lasers 
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Ukraine intend bringing war crime charges against captured pilots and two rocket launcher operators.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ng-2022-04-26/
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ng-2022-04-26/
Three Russian pilots suspected of bombing civilian buildings in the Kharkiv and Sumy regions are among at least seven Russian military personnel that Kyiv is preparing war crimes charges against, the Ukrainian prosecutor general’s office told Reuters.
It said the other individuals include two operators of a rocket launcher who allegedly shelled settlements in the Kharkiv region and two army servicemen suspected of murdering a Kyiv area resident and raping his wife.
The prosecutor’s office said it had notified the individuals that they are suspects and the investigations are ongoing, adding no charges had been filed with the court. It didn’t name the suspects or provide evidence to support the allegations. It said some of the suspects were held as captives, without specifying where, while other charges were being prepared in absentia.
Ukraine says it is investigating some 7,600 potential war crimes and at least 500 suspects following Russia's Feb. 24 invasion of its neighbour. Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova told Reuters that many of those suspects are in Russia but some have been taken captive by Ukraine as prisoners of war. Speaking in an interview earlier this month, she said that her office intends to follow the chain of command up the Russian political and military hierarchy.
Venediktova added that she plans to pursue prosecutions both in Ukrainian courts as well as at the International Criminal Court in The Hague, the world’s permanent war crimes tribunal.
The Kremlin and Russia’s defence ministry didn’t respond to requests for comment. Moscow has rejected allegations by Ukraine and Western nations of war crimes and has denied targeting civilians in what the Kremlin calls a "special military operation" to demilitarise its neighbour.
Ukraine’s probe is at the centre of multiple efforts to investigate potential war crimes related to the conflict, including by the ICC. The probes are at the very early stages, people familiar with them say. The ICC has sent an advance team to the region to establish operations. read more
Moscow has accused Kyiv of genocide against Russian speakers, which Kyiv strongly denies. Russia has also opened criminal cases into Ukrainian servicemen's alleged torture of their Russian counterparts. read more
Ukraine, which is conducting its investigation while still in the throes of war, is scrambling to assemble teams of specialists with war crimes expertise, evaluating potential crimes and developing its prosecution strategy.
”You can see they are now exhuming the bodies, so [the investigation is at a] very early stage," a person familiar with the process said. In terms of strategy, Kyiv plans to prosecute as much as it can in Ukrainian courts but would likely leave any cases involving higher-ranking figures to the ICC, the person added.
The UN has also established its own inquiry into possible violations of international humanitarian law in Ukraine, including possible war crimes, which could feed into any prosecutions by the ICC.
There is also a European Union-coordinated effort to fast track sharing of evidence between various investigating authorities, including with the ICC. Several European countries have said they will apply universal jurisdiction, the legal principle that some crimes are so terrible they can be heard by foreign national courts, and their prosecutors could launch investigations into Ukrainian atrocities.
For Ukraine, the immediate challenge is the sheer volume of potential evidence and witness testimony that needs to be secured and recorded in a way that is usable in court, legal specialists say. That includes vast amounts of digital imagery as well as material gathered on the ground.
David Schwendiman, a former U.S. federal prosecutor who has also helped prosecute war crimes committed during the Balkan wars in the 1990s, praised Ukraine’s prosecutor general as talented and courageous but said the country doesn’t have experience of an investigation of this scale and will need outside help processing potential crime scenes in a way that meets international standards.
“Every one of those bodies is a crime scene. Every one of those buildings is a crime scene. Every city is a crime scene,” Schwendiman said. Something as small as a piece of cloth torn from a uniform, an ammunition shell or even a ligature used to tie someone’s hands could help identify a particular unit involved and so needs to be carefully preserved, he added.
Zera Kozlyieva, deputy head of the war crimes unit in the prosecutor general’s office, acknowledged that limited access due to ongoing hostilities and a shortage of war crimes specialists presented challenges. Speaking Thursday on a panel at international affairs think tank Chatham House, she said that Kyiv is seeking help from international experts.
Images of dead civilians in Ukraine, including of mass graves and bodies of bound civilians shot at close range, have prompted international outrage, with U.S. President Joe Biden calling for Russian President Vladimir Putin to be investigated for war crimes. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy has accused invading Russian troops of committing "the most terrible war crimes" since World War Two.
According to the United Nations, as of April 22 more than 2,400 civilians had been killed since the conflict began in late February. But the official count is likely to climb. In the port city of Mariupol alone, local authorities have said thousands of people have been killed. read more
Under international law, war crimes include intentionally targeting civilian populations, willfully killing or causing suffering, and widespread destruction among other serious violations of laws applicable in armed conflict. Individuals who commit such crimes can be prosecuted by international tribunals such as the ICC and by states.
Experts for the Organization for Security and Cooperation and Europe (OSCE) nations said in a report published earlier this month that they found evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity by Russia in Ukraine. The experts also said in the report that they’d found evidence of violations of international humanitarian law by Ukraine, particularly in its treatment of prisoners of war, but that Russia's violations "are by far larger in nature and scale."
Ukraine has said it checks all information regarding the treatment of prisoners of war, will investigate any violations and take appropriate legal action. Russia has said the report "is based solely on unfounded propaganda theses, contains references to dubious sources and logical stretches in the style of 'highly likely.'"
UKRAINE’S PROBE
The prosecutor general’s office had in recent years established a special unit to investigate potential crimes in Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014 but Kyiv continues to claim as part of Ukraine, and Donbas.
Moscow’s February invasion of its Western neighbour forced Kyiv to scale up what had been a relatively small team of prosecutors.
Venediktova and her team have in recent weeks been evaluating sites where atrocities have taken place, including where Russian troops have recently withdrawn.
On April 12, Venediktova visited Bucha, near Kyiv, where French forensic experts had arrived to help Ukraine authorities establish what happened in the town where hundreds of bodies have been discovered. As the group from the French Gendarmerie's forensic science department looked on, workers in hazmat suits dug earth from a shallow grave and lifted out a heavy mass wrapped in an orange blanket. Citing witnesses, Venediktova said during the visit that the burnt body parts inside were those of a woman and her two children. read more
Russia has said that images and footage of dead bodies strewn across Bucha were fake.
Venediktova is also drawing on international legal expertise and seeking technical assistance. She has announced the formation of a task force of law firms and prominent international human rights lawyers, including Amal Clooney, to advise on securing accountability for Ukrainian victims in national jurisdictions as well as strategic guidance on cooperating with the ICC.
Venediktova is in regular contact with Beth Van Schaack, Ambassador-at-Large for Global Criminal Justice in the U.S. State Department, who said the two have discussed what additional assistance Washington could provide. Van Schaack’s office has been helping to deploy specialists on the ground via a joint U.S.-European project.
Van Schaack told Reuters that Venediktova’s requests for assistance include forensics expertise, such as helping determine how victims found in mass graves died and whether potential signs of torture were inflicted prior to death. Other requests include help identifying the type and origins of particular ballistics used as well as assistance clearing any mines left by Russians so that her investigators can safely access those areas.
Ukraine’s potentially biggest challenge, said Van Schaack, will be gaining custody of suspects, particularly those higher up the command chain. If they remain in Russia, they may “enjoy impunity for the rest of their days,” she said.
It said the other individuals include two operators of a rocket launcher who allegedly shelled settlements in the Kharkiv region and two army servicemen suspected of murdering a Kyiv area resident and raping his wife.
The prosecutor’s office said it had notified the individuals that they are suspects and the investigations are ongoing, adding no charges had been filed with the court. It didn’t name the suspects or provide evidence to support the allegations. It said some of the suspects were held as captives, without specifying where, while other charges were being prepared in absentia.
Ukraine says it is investigating some 7,600 potential war crimes and at least 500 suspects following Russia's Feb. 24 invasion of its neighbour. Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova told Reuters that many of those suspects are in Russia but some have been taken captive by Ukraine as prisoners of war. Speaking in an interview earlier this month, she said that her office intends to follow the chain of command up the Russian political and military hierarchy.
Venediktova added that she plans to pursue prosecutions both in Ukrainian courts as well as at the International Criminal Court in The Hague, the world’s permanent war crimes tribunal.
The Kremlin and Russia’s defence ministry didn’t respond to requests for comment. Moscow has rejected allegations by Ukraine and Western nations of war crimes and has denied targeting civilians in what the Kremlin calls a "special military operation" to demilitarise its neighbour.
Ukraine’s probe is at the centre of multiple efforts to investigate potential war crimes related to the conflict, including by the ICC. The probes are at the very early stages, people familiar with them say. The ICC has sent an advance team to the region to establish operations. read more
Moscow has accused Kyiv of genocide against Russian speakers, which Kyiv strongly denies. Russia has also opened criminal cases into Ukrainian servicemen's alleged torture of their Russian counterparts. read more
Ukraine, which is conducting its investigation while still in the throes of war, is scrambling to assemble teams of specialists with war crimes expertise, evaluating potential crimes and developing its prosecution strategy.
”You can see they are now exhuming the bodies, so [the investigation is at a] very early stage," a person familiar with the process said. In terms of strategy, Kyiv plans to prosecute as much as it can in Ukrainian courts but would likely leave any cases involving higher-ranking figures to the ICC, the person added.
The UN has also established its own inquiry into possible violations of international humanitarian law in Ukraine, including possible war crimes, which could feed into any prosecutions by the ICC.
There is also a European Union-coordinated effort to fast track sharing of evidence between various investigating authorities, including with the ICC. Several European countries have said they will apply universal jurisdiction, the legal principle that some crimes are so terrible they can be heard by foreign national courts, and their prosecutors could launch investigations into Ukrainian atrocities.
For Ukraine, the immediate challenge is the sheer volume of potential evidence and witness testimony that needs to be secured and recorded in a way that is usable in court, legal specialists say. That includes vast amounts of digital imagery as well as material gathered on the ground.
David Schwendiman, a former U.S. federal prosecutor who has also helped prosecute war crimes committed during the Balkan wars in the 1990s, praised Ukraine’s prosecutor general as talented and courageous but said the country doesn’t have experience of an investigation of this scale and will need outside help processing potential crime scenes in a way that meets international standards.
“Every one of those bodies is a crime scene. Every one of those buildings is a crime scene. Every city is a crime scene,” Schwendiman said. Something as small as a piece of cloth torn from a uniform, an ammunition shell or even a ligature used to tie someone’s hands could help identify a particular unit involved and so needs to be carefully preserved, he added.
Zera Kozlyieva, deputy head of the war crimes unit in the prosecutor general’s office, acknowledged that limited access due to ongoing hostilities and a shortage of war crimes specialists presented challenges. Speaking Thursday on a panel at international affairs think tank Chatham House, she said that Kyiv is seeking help from international experts.
Images of dead civilians in Ukraine, including of mass graves and bodies of bound civilians shot at close range, have prompted international outrage, with U.S. President Joe Biden calling for Russian President Vladimir Putin to be investigated for war crimes. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy has accused invading Russian troops of committing "the most terrible war crimes" since World War Two.
According to the United Nations, as of April 22 more than 2,400 civilians had been killed since the conflict began in late February. But the official count is likely to climb. In the port city of Mariupol alone, local authorities have said thousands of people have been killed. read more
Under international law, war crimes include intentionally targeting civilian populations, willfully killing or causing suffering, and widespread destruction among other serious violations of laws applicable in armed conflict. Individuals who commit such crimes can be prosecuted by international tribunals such as the ICC and by states.
Experts for the Organization for Security and Cooperation and Europe (OSCE) nations said in a report published earlier this month that they found evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity by Russia in Ukraine. The experts also said in the report that they’d found evidence of violations of international humanitarian law by Ukraine, particularly in its treatment of prisoners of war, but that Russia's violations "are by far larger in nature and scale."
Ukraine has said it checks all information regarding the treatment of prisoners of war, will investigate any violations and take appropriate legal action. Russia has said the report "is based solely on unfounded propaganda theses, contains references to dubious sources and logical stretches in the style of 'highly likely.'"
UKRAINE’S PROBE
The prosecutor general’s office had in recent years established a special unit to investigate potential crimes in Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014 but Kyiv continues to claim as part of Ukraine, and Donbas.
Moscow’s February invasion of its Western neighbour forced Kyiv to scale up what had been a relatively small team of prosecutors.
Venediktova and her team have in recent weeks been evaluating sites where atrocities have taken place, including where Russian troops have recently withdrawn.
On April 12, Venediktova visited Bucha, near Kyiv, where French forensic experts had arrived to help Ukraine authorities establish what happened in the town where hundreds of bodies have been discovered. As the group from the French Gendarmerie's forensic science department looked on, workers in hazmat suits dug earth from a shallow grave and lifted out a heavy mass wrapped in an orange blanket. Citing witnesses, Venediktova said during the visit that the burnt body parts inside were those of a woman and her two children. read more
Russia has said that images and footage of dead bodies strewn across Bucha were fake.
Venediktova is also drawing on international legal expertise and seeking technical assistance. She has announced the formation of a task force of law firms and prominent international human rights lawyers, including Amal Clooney, to advise on securing accountability for Ukrainian victims in national jurisdictions as well as strategic guidance on cooperating with the ICC.
Venediktova is in regular contact with Beth Van Schaack, Ambassador-at-Large for Global Criminal Justice in the U.S. State Department, who said the two have discussed what additional assistance Washington could provide. Van Schaack’s office has been helping to deploy specialists on the ground via a joint U.S.-European project.
Van Schaack told Reuters that Venediktova’s requests for assistance include forensics expertise, such as helping determine how victims found in mass graves died and whether potential signs of torture were inflicted prior to death. Other requests include help identifying the type and origins of particular ballistics used as well as assistance clearing any mines left by Russians so that her investigators can safely access those areas.
Ukraine’s potentially biggest challenge, said Van Schaack, will be gaining custody of suspects, particularly those higher up the command chain. If they remain in Russia, they may “enjoy impunity for the rest of their days,” she said.