British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Do they understand HOW to negotiate?
Is my question.
I may be naive, but i would have imagined that in order to fulfil their (Unite/Bassa) mandate to negotiate, the reps would actually have to be in the same room as the people they need to negotiate with?!
My very very good source, tells me that thus far their "intensive negotiation" involves pitching up (at some point during the day), spending 1/2 hour max in the same room as the BA reps, then disappearing off by themselves for the rest of the day. As yet, no negotiating session has gone past 5pm.
How convienent! I'm glad no stone is being unturned in their quest to secure the best deal for their poor unfortunate members...
I may be naive, but i would have imagined that in order to fulfil their (Unite/Bassa) mandate to negotiate, the reps would actually have to be in the same room as the people they need to negotiate with?!
My very very good source, tells me that thus far their "intensive negotiation" involves pitching up (at some point during the day), spending 1/2 hour max in the same room as the BA reps, then disappearing off by themselves for the rest of the day. As yet, no negotiating session has gone past 5pm.
How convienent! I'm glad no stone is being unturned in their quest to secure the best deal for their poor unfortunate members...
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Hello once again just a quick note to say that Jorg Handwerg from Vereinigung cockpis (cockpits association ) LH has confirmed his comments if you doubt my word get BALPA to give him a call. I now know for sure LH pilots have respect for other workers unlike the few BA helpers with no shame.
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Was he speaking on behalf of himself or his union. That would make a difference.
Also, perhaps it would be beneficial for BASSA to understand that the many who do not agree with their actions do so out of their personal ethics and convictions.
BASSA has no corner on the ethics market, obviously. We'll all seen the website
Also, perhaps it would be beneficial for BASSA to understand that the many who do not agree with their actions do so out of their personal ethics and convictions.
BASSA has no corner on the ethics market, obviously. We'll all seen the website
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Watersidewonker
Hello once again just a quick note to say that Jorg Handwerg from Vereinigung cockpis (cockpits association ) LH has confirmed his comments if you doubt my word get BALPA to give him a call. I now know for sure LH pilots have respect for other workers unlike the few BA helpers with no shame.
Roger.
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Watersidewonker:
I've googled several different phrases and can't verify your representation. Do you have a link or is this just rumour?
Though I do note that the Lufthansa strike was cut short...though called a "success" by its Union.
I've googled several different phrases and can't verify your representation. Do you have a link or is this just rumour?
Though I do note that the Lufthansa strike was cut short...though called a "success" by its Union.
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Hello once again just a quick note to say that Jorg Handwerg from Vereinigung cockpis (cockpits association ) LH has confirmed his comments if you doubt my word get BALPA to give him a call. I now know for sure LH pilots have respect for other workers unlike the few BA helpers with no shame.
None really when you think about it. You have the right to strike, they have the right to oppose it. Your videos seem to state that BASSA is about Freedom, free speech for all, civil rights (plus the a hell of a lot more), yet you are saying that these people don't have the right to do what they believe. You can add hypocrisy to your idiocy!
If you want their support, I would suggest not being such massive twats, why do you think NO ONE is sympathetic to your cause, bar a LH pilot or two?!?
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Please tell me that one of you cabin crew moderates has contacted the UK press with both the details of the BA proposals as outlined in post # 1511 and the link to the latest BASSA video? That the change from eg 15 to 14 cabin crew on a 747 can lead to these comparisons is laughable. Are they aware that other airline crew have lost their jobs or taken sizeable paycuts as well as having to concede on conditions?
Even if WWW is correct with his statement that Jorg Handwerg questioned the cockpit volunteers actions I am sure JH is not aware of the attitude of BASSA hardliners - refusing to negotiate for 9 months and passing up probably the least restrictive offer in the last year in any western airline. And this after flight deck crew have already taken pay cuts and productivity increases. Not to mention BASSA's silence on the issue of members who advocate poisoning volunteer crew by interfering with their food or drink amongst other things.
I also first thought the video was meant to be ironic or a joke - hearing it was shown at the union meeting totally blows my mind.....
As an afterthought - maybe the BASSA hardline executive members/reps should be kept in isolation in a small cell for a couple decades (as Mandela was). Would solve a lot of the current problems and give them some right to use those images!
Even if WWW is correct with his statement that Jorg Handwerg questioned the cockpit volunteers actions I am sure JH is not aware of the attitude of BASSA hardliners - refusing to negotiate for 9 months and passing up probably the least restrictive offer in the last year in any western airline. And this after flight deck crew have already taken pay cuts and productivity increases. Not to mention BASSA's silence on the issue of members who advocate poisoning volunteer crew by interfering with their food or drink amongst other things.
I also first thought the video was meant to be ironic or a joke - hearing it was shown at the union meeting totally blows my mind.....
As an afterthought - maybe the BASSA hardline executive members/reps should be kept in isolation in a small cell for a couple decades (as Mandela was). Would solve a lot of the current problems and give them some right to use those images!
Last edited by piton; 26th Feb 2010 at 21:55.
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Interesting how the Mail runs a lot of stories like these.
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Sorry to barge into this thread
Considering Jörg Handwerg/Vereinigung Cockpit
If Jörg Handwerg was speaking (I have no knowledge of the supposed confirmation), he certainly did it in his role as press spokesman for VC.
Lufthansa refused to negotiate, Pilots went on strike, Lufthansa went on the first day to a judge to stop the strike, the judge didn't want to hand down a decision right away and suggested to start negotiations, Lufthansa (and VC, as that was their goal) agreed and started negotiations (for at least 2 weeks the strike has been suspended). So, yeah, kind of a success.
Yeah, talking about puerile antics ...
Was he speaking on behalf of himself or his union. That would make a difference.
Though I do note that the Lufthansa strike was cut short...though called a "success" by its Union.
I wonder if Herr Handwerg knows as much and understands some of what has been revealed on this forum? If, as I suspect, he is intelligent and analytical, he would probably spit out his sauerkraut at the purile antics of your BASSA peers.
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Weathermap has told us:
Leaving the teachers aside, I find Weathermap's assertion totally preposterous and utterly incredible.
An NHS-only dentist (a very rare creature) earns north of £80,000 p.a. My NHS GP earns £120,000 p.a.
Why should anyone who (a) already has an earning capacity far in excess of the most senior CSD's wildest dreams or (b) has devoted at least six years to his/her professional education stoop to be a BA flight attendant? Do you honestly believe that they would take such a salary sacrifice?
C'mon, Weathermap! We were not all born yesterday, you know.
i also know of crew who have been teachers, dentists and doctors before joining BA
An NHS-only dentist (a very rare creature) earns north of £80,000 p.a. My NHS GP earns £120,000 p.a.
Why should anyone who (a) already has an earning capacity far in excess of the most senior CSD's wildest dreams or (b) has devoted at least six years to his/her professional education stoop to be a BA flight attendant? Do you honestly believe that they would take such a salary sacrifice?
C'mon, Weathermap! We were not all born yesterday, you know.
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It is somewhat disheartening to see that some robust criticism of a post leads WWW to simply remove his/her earlier postings than leave them in place to attract valid criticism in the full light of day.
It is indicative of the union's evasiveness that the union prefers to play a game of politics than addressing the issues at the centre of the debate - it is quite clear that in addressing WWW we are possibly dealing with one of the senior reps or a rep's close clique, who is attempting through off-topic input to this thread to deviate attention from the lack of negotiations towards methods of garnering a measure of union solidarity, chiefly by suggesting that every other employee group in the company, plus the wider world, are out to get them.
This is patently untrue, and it is clear by most of the input to this thread that most people simply want to see the staff get some real representation that stands up for their interests, and to provide correct information.
There are many educated crew - I think it is off topic to suggest that it is untrue that there might be a medical professional among their number. I can think of a multitude of reasons why there might be some among their number, but no reason why it is relevant to BASSA's total failure to substantively negotiate.
However, I also find it unlikely to suggest that in this economic climate, that even a trained and current accountant who is presently working as crew would be able to find work immediately, paying a reasonable salary, given their more recent work experience.
The issue is that the union is playing games with fire and jeopardising those individuals' wages by refusing to negotiate and provide effective representation.
In case that was not clear, let me make it so - the missteps of a union that opens itself to criticism by the USMC through over-emotive rousing of it membership is doing nothing more than furthering power games of senior union officials.
In wasting time and money both making the video and attracting outside attention that is irrelevant to the present discussions with the company, it is jeopardising those individuals' wages by refusing to negotiate and provide effective representation.
People are volunteering to help the company, largely as most people want a job at the end of the day; in attempting to strike, the union risks destroying the company, and any chance of replacing pension fund losses
It is indicative of the union's evasiveness that the union prefers to play a game of politics than addressing the issues at the centre of the debate - it is quite clear that in addressing WWW we are possibly dealing with one of the senior reps or a rep's close clique, who is attempting through off-topic input to this thread to deviate attention from the lack of negotiations towards methods of garnering a measure of union solidarity, chiefly by suggesting that every other employee group in the company, plus the wider world, are out to get them.
This is patently untrue, and it is clear by most of the input to this thread that most people simply want to see the staff get some real representation that stands up for their interests, and to provide correct information.
There are many educated crew - I think it is off topic to suggest that it is untrue that there might be a medical professional among their number. I can think of a multitude of reasons why there might be some among their number, but no reason why it is relevant to BASSA's total failure to substantively negotiate.
However, I also find it unlikely to suggest that in this economic climate, that even a trained and current accountant who is presently working as crew would be able to find work immediately, paying a reasonable salary, given their more recent work experience.
The issue is that the union is playing games with fire and jeopardising those individuals' wages by refusing to negotiate and provide effective representation.
In case that was not clear, let me make it so - the missteps of a union that opens itself to criticism by the USMC through over-emotive rousing of it membership is doing nothing more than furthering power games of senior union officials.
In wasting time and money both making the video and attracting outside attention that is irrelevant to the present discussions with the company, it is jeopardising those individuals' wages by refusing to negotiate and provide effective representation.
Hello once again just a quick note to say that Jorg Handwerg from Vereinigung cockpis (cockpits association ) LH has confirmed his comments if you doubt my word get BALPA to give him a call. I now know for sure LH pilots have respect for other workers unlike the few BA helpers with no shame.
Last edited by Re-Heat; 27th Feb 2010 at 03:08.
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Vereinigung Cockpit e.V. :Home
Any German speakers here? Perhaps we can put this to rest.
Having said that, the most recent release on their home page came on 22nd February, and doesn't seem to mention BA.
Any German speakers here? Perhaps we can put this to rest.
Having said that, the most recent release on their home page came on 22nd February, and doesn't seem to mention BA.
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Hello once again just a quick note to say that Jorg Handwerg from Vereinigung cockpis (cockpits association ) LH has confirmed his comments if you doubt my word get BALPA to give him a call. I now know for sure LH pilots have respect for other workers unlike the few BA helpers with no shame.
There has been talk of irony recently on this thread but I am starting to wonder whether there is some sort of Dramatic Irony, all the readers can see the participants in this heading towards a disastrous outcome and yet the participants themselves continue onwards, ignorant of the facts.
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Using the search facility at Vereinigung Cockpit e.V. :Home and the search terms British Airways Handwerg or the search terms BA Handwerg
Results:
Suche nach "british" und "airways" und "handwerg"
KEINE Ergebnisse gefunden.
Translation:
Search for "british" and "airways" and "handwerg"
NO results found
A search for British Airways gives a number of articles, none related to the CC industrial action
Results:
Suche nach "british" und "airways" und "handwerg"
KEINE Ergebnisse gefunden.
Translation:
Search for "british" and "airways" and "handwerg"
NO results found
A search for British Airways gives a number of articles, none related to the CC industrial action
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The Daily Mail
The article linked above (post 1620 by papillion) is broadly accurate according to my source. I could not print here the words my source used to describe BASSA and British Airways Cabin Crew, it would be moderated immediately.
Suffice is to say there is little support for strike action at HQ, if WW pushes BASSA towards a strike it will BASSA who hit the nuclear option and they will be very much "on their own".
Suffice is to say there is little support for strike action at HQ, if WW pushes BASSA towards a strike it will BASSA who hit the nuclear option and they will be very much "on their own".
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Pornpants1
This is the source for the DM's article -
Malone & Ors v British Airways Plc [2010] EWHC 302 (QB) (19 February 2010)
They also 'reveal' the source in the article -
Unless your talking about the quotes from the Bassa forum.
This is the source for the DM's article -
Malone & Ors v British Airways Plc [2010] EWHC 302 (QB) (19 February 2010)
They also 'reveal' the source in the article -
The division was disclosed by a High Court judge while ruling on the issue at the heart of the dispute
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Meal chucker
I was commenting on the overall article, I know some of it is old news and some of what is printed was highlighted by a High Court Judge.
I was also trying to avoid posting another link.
But this bit rings very true with what I am being told, it kinds of corroborates my information, unless the Daily Mails source is the same..........
I was also trying to avoid posting another link.
But this bit rings very true with what I am being told, it kinds of corroborates my information, unless the Daily Mails source is the same..........
Insiders say elements within Unite are now 'desperate' to avoid a walkout, while senior figures in the union are said to believe it could damage Labour, to which Unite donates £10million a year, in the run-up to the General Election.
There is also the belief that militants have come under pressure from members to avoid a walkout. Postings on Bassa's website suggest significant numbers of staff are now against a strike.
There is also the belief that militants have come under pressure from members to avoid a walkout. Postings on Bassa's website suggest significant numbers of staff are now against a strike.
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