British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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I thought Len looked shocked on the ITV news stumbling over his words
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If Unite wished its membership to vote upon the BA offer it should have been done PRIOR to any strike date being set.
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You are assuming that UNITE wanted the CC to accept the unknown offer/s. The word on CF seems to be that there were a flurry of last minute offers and there would have been a vote but that UNITE were not recommending accepting it!
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Yet still, despite this all, will it make ANY difference to the way (some) crew feel about BASSA?
I except that many crew realise just what precarious position they have been led to. Many have already voted with their feet and abandoned the Unite union.
However do the core BASSA supporters yet realise that all their current angst is a product of mis (or at least hugely biased) information?
Will the post script to this situation be greater support for BASSA by the minority who believe that this is all still due to management intransigence or will this finally induce a shift of allegiance?
Unless those core supporters question truthfully why they are being asked to face the consequences now ahead of them will BA not be in this position at some future point?
In essence will this actually make BASSA weaker or stronger?
I except that many crew realise just what precarious position they have been led to. Many have already voted with their feet and abandoned the Unite union.
However do the core BASSA supporters yet realise that all their current angst is a product of mis (or at least hugely biased) information?
Will the post script to this situation be greater support for BASSA by the minority who believe that this is all still due to management intransigence or will this finally induce a shift of allegiance?
Unless those core supporters question truthfully why they are being asked to face the consequences now ahead of them will BA not be in this position at some future point?
In essence will this actually make BASSA weaker or stronger?
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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In essence will this actually make BASSA weaker or stronger?
History
........any Employee Relations arena in which staff talk about the "1948 agreement" is one with no sense of modern reality.
In my time in Aviation, (not BA), some of the older Union reps referred to the "Yellow Book". (Colour changed to hide id). I told the TU officials that I had never read it, and was not about to read it. When they realised that the Board and I meant it, and meant it when we said that there would no longer be any "Spanish practices", in exchange for a reasonable, but not extravagant buyout, everyone agreed quickly.
The "yellow book" then became a mutual joke causing smiles.
BA should now move on to getting rid of these historic practices.
In my time in Aviation, (not BA), some of the older Union reps referred to the "Yellow Book". (Colour changed to hide id). I told the TU officials that I had never read it, and was not about to read it. When they realised that the Board and I meant it, and meant it when we said that there would no longer be any "Spanish practices", in exchange for a reasonable, but not extravagant buyout, everyone agreed quickly.
The "yellow book" then became a mutual joke causing smiles.
BA should now move on to getting rid of these historic practices.
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from Business support, information and advice | Business Link
If a union achieved recognition via the statutory procedure, certain procedures have to be followed for it to be derecognised.
However, statutory derecognition can only take place three or more years after recognition was originally granted.
There are three main grounds for derecognition:
1. You no longer employ 21 or more workers - see the page in this guide on statutory derecognition of a trade union owing to reduced size of workforce
2. The union no longer has enough support from workers in the bargaining unit the group of workers the union represents - see the page in this guide on statutory derecognition of a trade union owing to lack of support for bargaining arrangements
3. Union membership in the bargaining unit falls below 50 per cent - see the page in this guide on statutory derecognition of a trade union owing to falling union membership in the bargaining unit
In situations where grounds 2 or 3 apply and an application for derecognition is accepted by the Central Arbitration Committee (CAC), the CAC could declare that a derecognition ballot be held
However, statutory derecognition can only take place three or more years after recognition was originally granted.
There are three main grounds for derecognition:
1. You no longer employ 21 or more workers - see the page in this guide on statutory derecognition of a trade union owing to reduced size of workforce
2. The union no longer has enough support from workers in the bargaining unit the group of workers the union represents - see the page in this guide on statutory derecognition of a trade union owing to lack of support for bargaining arrangements
3. Union membership in the bargaining unit falls below 50 per cent - see the page in this guide on statutory derecognition of a trade union owing to falling union membership in the bargaining unit
In situations where grounds 2 or 3 apply and an application for derecognition is accepted by the Central Arbitration Committee (CAC), the CAC could declare that a derecognition ballot be held
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JazzyKex:
A good question and looking at this from a rather clinical point of view this is what I see is part of BASSA's difficulty at the moment.
BASSA, somehow have got their membership striking over an imposition that involved no decrease in salary and a VOLUNTARY reduction in staff.
Its understood that it wasn't something their membership may cheer about, but it wasn't exactly huge regarding impact on its membership as a whole.
Through an inane series of events Cabin Crew lose almost all public support for their actions. In fact, their public image has taken a huge trend towards the negative.
BASSA's efforts at negotiations are rather a day late and a dollar short.
BA calls them at their bluff and asks them to be as good as their word.
Cabin Crew are now in danger of losing their ST benefits, and at risk of losing their rather generous salaries.
So, having paid this price over a relatively minor incident, what happens when something serious is proposed three months downline? Calling another strike would be ludricrous and another PR nightmare, membership will have to hesitate knowing what ineptitude their leadership is capable of, and management will know that BASSA have less "ammo" at their disposal.
If BA survives the strike BASSA is marginalized.
There is a reason that BASSA/Unite is so desperate to get that offer back on the table.
A good question and looking at this from a rather clinical point of view this is what I see is part of BASSA's difficulty at the moment.
BASSA, somehow have got their membership striking over an imposition that involved no decrease in salary and a VOLUNTARY reduction in staff.
Its understood that it wasn't something their membership may cheer about, but it wasn't exactly huge regarding impact on its membership as a whole.
Through an inane series of events Cabin Crew lose almost all public support for their actions. In fact, their public image has taken a huge trend towards the negative.
BASSA's efforts at negotiations are rather a day late and a dollar short.
BA calls them at their bluff and asks them to be as good as their word.
Cabin Crew are now in danger of losing their ST benefits, and at risk of losing their rather generous salaries.
So, having paid this price over a relatively minor incident, what happens when something serious is proposed three months downline? Calling another strike would be ludricrous and another PR nightmare, membership will have to hesitate knowing what ineptitude their leadership is capable of, and management will know that BASSA have less "ammo" at their disposal.
If BA survives the strike BASSA is marginalized.
There is a reason that BASSA/Unite is so desperate to get that offer back on the table.
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What about the workers?
Much of what has already been posted concentrated on those demented souls who followed BASSA over the cliff.
What is going to happen to the thousands of CC who DIDN'T follow BASSA, who voted NO or who didn't vote or are not BASSA members or not even TU members? Who turn up to work on time, do a bl@@dy good job, go home, feed the kids and pay their mortgage?
Mostly they work 'down the back' so probably wouldn't know if the CSD was asleep/on board/on a trolley and couldn't care less.
They just turn up, get on with the job and go home knowing they've done their best.
What's going to happen to them?????
What is going to happen to the thousands of CC who DIDN'T follow BASSA, who voted NO or who didn't vote or are not BASSA members or not even TU members? Who turn up to work on time, do a bl@@dy good job, go home, feed the kids and pay their mortgage?
Mostly they work 'down the back' so probably wouldn't know if the CSD was asleep/on board/on a trolley and couldn't care less.
They just turn up, get on with the job and go home knowing they've done their best.
What's going to happen to them?????
Last edited by PaddyMiguel; 12th Mar 2010 at 13:44. Reason: grammar
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Paddy:
I imagine that BA and Mr. Walsh will have a message for those rather wonderful and worried individuals closer to the time of the strike.
I'm actually looking at places to book during the strike so that I can hope to meet a few of you.
I imagine that BA and Mr. Walsh will have a message for those rather wonderful and worried individuals closer to the time of the strike.
I'm actually looking at places to book during the strike so that I can hope to meet a few of you.
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I am one of them!!
At the moment I am worried sick.
I am no longer a union member as I do not agree with their actions concerning this dispute.I did post last week about this and asked who will speak for me?
I hope that Willie Walsh will not treat the non strikers the same as the trouble makers.
That would be unfair as we have done nothing wrong and are willing to work through a strike.
I am hoping that he will differentiate between the two.However this is a very stressful time and who knows what will happen.
At the moment I am worried sick.
I am no longer a union member as I do not agree with their actions concerning this dispute.I did post last week about this and asked who will speak for me?
I hope that Willie Walsh will not treat the non strikers the same as the trouble makers.
That would be unfair as we have done nothing wrong and are willing to work through a strike.
I am hoping that he will differentiate between the two.However this is a very stressful time and who knows what will happen.
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617 .I have a feeling that WW is teaching the trouble makers a lesson here .Clearly your not one of them and i realy do think that those crew who want to work during the strike will all be fine .This is about the BASSA hardliners not people like yourself.
Please try and step back from it all and enjoy your weekend i have a feeling you'll be just fine.
Please try and step back from it all and enjoy your weekend i have a feeling you'll be just fine.
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617 sqn
I am right with you on this. Who will speak for us (non striking crew)? I really hope that the PCCC can get off the ground after this debacle and we can find a better way of negotiating with the company. I can't take all this 'Strike strike Strike' talk and brinkmanship of the last few years. I think we (Cabin Crew) are sick of this.
But it looks like the 'endgame' is here now anyway. Who knows what the next ten days shall bring?
But it looks like the 'endgame' is here now anyway. Who knows what the next ten days shall bring?
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Not to pour water on it though, but remember that come the days of the strikes, some of those working onboard will not be there because they really WANT to be, they will simply be there because they HAVE to be. Or in other words, not all of the onboard "team" will be the sensible and informed NO/non voters/non union members .... some will be YES voters who've bottled it through lack of conviction.
I really hope that they will have the sense, and good grace, to realise that for them, it's all over .... no moaning or grumbling, no slovenly behaviour, no ba bashing. If they turn-up to work on a strike day, they have to do so in the knowledge that that day is the 1st day of the rest of their lives in BA, and that things are going to be very different from that day onwards. They, along with all of us, will need to refocus on the common goal of making BA great again.
I will be giving-up 7 days of my booked annual leave in order to work on strike days. I hope to be working with focussed, positive and happy colleagues on each of those days.
my views, not those of my employer, BA.
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617
Crew who turn up and do their job in the normal professional manner will be rewarded..........its called a pay check ! Enjoy yours, as opposed to those lemmings who have allowed the union to take them down this self destructing road.
Crew who turn up and do their job in the normal professional manner will be rewarded..........its called a pay check ! Enjoy yours, as opposed to those lemmings who have allowed the union to take them down this self destructing road.
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617:
I truly am sorry that you are having to go through this rather dangerous time through no fault of your own.
Perhaps, and I'm not sure exactly what their activity level or status is at the moment, PCC could help in this regard.
A communication to Mr. Walsh and BA Board members stating concerns for Cabin Crew who have not voted to strike and who will be doing their jobs during this period may be appropriate.
During this time I think it may be a good idea of the Cabin Crew who are not participating in this fiasco give themselves a voice.
Heaven knows BASSA isn't going to recognize your existence.
Again, don't think that disdain for the militant members of BASSA isn't tempered by total admiration and goodwill for those trying to behave honorably. You have fans out here in the real world
I truly am sorry that you are having to go through this rather dangerous time through no fault of your own.
Perhaps, and I'm not sure exactly what their activity level or status is at the moment, PCC could help in this regard.
A communication to Mr. Walsh and BA Board members stating concerns for Cabin Crew who have not voted to strike and who will be doing their jobs during this period may be appropriate.
During this time I think it may be a good idea of the Cabin Crew who are not participating in this fiasco give themselves a voice.
Heaven knows BASSA isn't going to recognize your existence.
Again, don't think that disdain for the militant members of BASSA isn't tempered by total admiration and goodwill for those trying to behave honorably. You have fans out here in the real world
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fishbait:
I know...though they hope to have a schedule up in the near future according to FlyerTalk.
I've been pleased with the number of individuals who seem to be game for flying with a bit of creativity regarding catering etc..
Personally, if I have a vodka/tonic available I'm pretty low maintenance.
I know...though they hope to have a schedule up in the near future according to FlyerTalk.
I've been pleased with the number of individuals who seem to be game for flying with a bit of creativity regarding catering etc..
Personally, if I have a vodka/tonic available I'm pretty low maintenance.
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617 - an all other no voting and working CC
617 - an all other no voting and working CC...
I have just read your post out to a friend who has her honeymoon flight booked on a strike day, I can tell you that you are appreciated by her a great deal and I'm sure many other customers and staff members alike.
I have just read your post out to a friend who has her honeymoon flight booked on a strike day, I can tell you that you are appreciated by her a great deal and I'm sure many other customers and staff members alike.