British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Hi OzzieO,
Just read your posts about 'huge' announcements. Had a look back through ess mail and the mail we were all sent said Willie Walsh will be 'updating colleagues on the industrial situation'. He made no mention of a huge announcement.
Just read your posts about 'huge' announcements. Had a look back through ess mail and the mail we were all sent said Willie Walsh will be 'updating colleagues on the industrial situation'. He made no mention of a huge announcement.
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Papillon
Thanks for the PM. Nice touch. 
In the light of me not being very far from accuracy in predicting content of todays announcement (despite some sceptisism i sensed!), i hope that my message of support seems even more genuine and less threatening!
I was in attendance at the forum today, and was vastly encouraged by both the strong position that Willie took in stating FACTS, and dispelling some of the myths, and also the genuine interest and support in the room.
It was great to see that some crew had taken the time to come along, and i think it was VERY positive that they put their heads above the parapet to ask questions, and reasonable, logical questions. It sent a clear message to all the non CC staff present, that there are reasonable CC out there who ARE interested in hearing what WW has to say, and do listen, and do want to hear answers, and make sensible suggestions and points.
It was also a good message that BA CC should be respected for the excellent jobs that they do, and given the support they deserve, and not to be hard on the crew whose union has been doing them a dis-service. One of the tactics UNITE/BASSA seems to have employed is to try and alienate CC from the rest of the company and vice versa. The lets be united and work together for a better company message was a powerful juxtaposition to the UNITE poison.
In the light of me not being very far from accuracy in predicting content of todays announcement (despite some sceptisism i sensed!), i hope that my message of support seems even more genuine and less threatening!
I was in attendance at the forum today, and was vastly encouraged by both the strong position that Willie took in stating FACTS, and dispelling some of the myths, and also the genuine interest and support in the room.
It was great to see that some crew had taken the time to come along, and i think it was VERY positive that they put their heads above the parapet to ask questions, and reasonable, logical questions. It sent a clear message to all the non CC staff present, that there are reasonable CC out there who ARE interested in hearing what WW has to say, and do listen, and do want to hear answers, and make sensible suggestions and points.
It was also a good message that BA CC should be respected for the excellent jobs that they do, and given the support they deserve, and not to be hard on the crew whose union has been doing them a dis-service. One of the tactics UNITE/BASSA seems to have employed is to try and alienate CC from the rest of the company and vice versa. The lets be united and work together for a better company message was a powerful juxtaposition to the UNITE poison.
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Call a one-hour/one-day strike in order to expose the fewest possible CC to loss of ST
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But if you were rostered to work that day, would you do it? IIRC that was why a long strike was favoured by some, so that it wouldn't be a few lambs to the slaughter who were singled out. I know why you're wondering, but I can't see that working for anyone.
How about it? Liz?....Mark?.....Liz???
I also think that WW has his dander up and ANY strike of ANY length would result in a form of 'lock-out'. The phones would be ringing the week before and anyone not stating they would be willing to work would just be told that there was no work for them after ANY instance of strike.
The justification would be that the company would have to go through the disruptive process of changing schedules and getting all the thousands of volunteers into place. Too much hassle to chop and change.
Oh, by the way .... any strikers that then decided to come back to work after any strike would not be getting paid since they would still be deemed to be 'on strike' due to the disruption they had caused.
Negotiated settlement - not on bassa terms.
WW needs to ensure that the bunch of militants that have caused problems over the years do not do so in the near future. The moderates need to regain control of bassa and ensure that the future is about meaningful negotiation, rather than the constant shouting 'no, no, no - what's the question!'.
The justification would be that the company would have to go through the disruptive process of changing schedules and getting all the thousands of volunteers into place. Too much hassle to chop and change.
Oh, by the way .... any strikers that then decided to come back to work after any strike would not be getting paid since they would still be deemed to be 'on strike' due to the disruption they had caused.
Negotiated settlement - not on bassa terms.
WW needs to ensure that the bunch of militants that have caused problems over the years do not do so in the near future. The moderates need to regain control of bassa and ensure that the future is about meaningful negotiation, rather than the constant shouting 'no, no, no - what's the question!'.
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Latest from BASSA, sent to me by a colleague.
BASSA > Latest News
Statement
Mar 3rd, 2010 by admin
Industrial action is and will always be a regrettable last and final option. It is important that we emphasise LAST option.
Industrial action or even the threat of industrial action causes everybody concern, worry and sleepless nights.
Unite is your union and as your union we have a responsibility and a duty to try every option that we possibly can to avert strike action.
We have been busy since the beginning of January trying to do exactly that.
Have we been successful yet? So far, No.
Will we keep trying? Yes.
Will we keep trying until the point when there simply is no other option? Again Yes.
We have acted with professionalism, with dignity and with patience to try and find a solution to an array of complex issues.
The talks have covered:
A permanent cost saving solution
Protection and on going commitment to honour existing agreements.
Protection of current crew - Earnings, agreements, promotion, leave, staff travel and routes operated.
A new mixed flying fleet.
Ability to transfer to existing fleets for LHR and LGW crew.
Access to part time contracts.
Disruption Agreement.
Crewing levels.
We are attempting to ensure a safe, more secure and a better future for all current crew. In short, ensuring British Airways is a better place to work moving forward than it is currently.
British Airways management side appear on occasions to be less than enthusiastic about achieving this success; instead preferring a more confrontational approach. At times they appear desperate to provoke a dispute, perhaps to create the stage, upon which they can perform their finest "tragedy" or soap opera, depending on your taste and to show the world, what a tough, hard nosed management they really are.
It is unlikely that today’s much publicised Waterside briefing by Mr Walsh will be conciliatory. The content will more than likely be glorious self justifying details of his plans to "smash" any strike.
It truly is such a shame that as much energy has not been put into solving this dispute as opposed to trying to break it.
In many ways it would be far easier to have negotiated a deal to put one crew member back on our aircraft, than devise plans to put "thousands of volunteers" on instead.
Numerous confrontational ESS communications, the deliberate scheduling by Mr Walsh of this hour long "industrial dispute" update to all staff at the exact point where talks have reached a critical and fragile stage, along side the insistence of holding disciplinaries for several of our negotiating team this very week, and the petty gesture whereby the very reps involved in trying to reach an agreement having their basic pay subtracted for any days spent trying to find that solution- are not helpful, and resemble more of a stick than an olive branch.
This will not distract us in anyway as we remain focused on the task ahead of us. It’s not easy but if we can achieve it, it will be a welcome relief for everybody and that is of course our preferred option.
If we cannot, it will not be from want of trying, but because there are no other options left and if industrial strike action is necessary, then that is exactly what we will do, having done all that we absolutely possibly can to avoid it.
Don’t feel isolated and alone, our safety and our strength and our best chance of achieving a deal is by remaining together, every single person plays a part in that, every single person that abandons their friends and colleagues sends out a message.
No matter how they justify it to themselves, it undermines that strength.
These are worrying times for us all, don’t just expect others to give you strength and confidence, if you are on a flight and you talk to people that have doubts- that are only natural- put your arm around them and give them your strength.
Prepare yourselves, whether that be for the best or the worst... As that time is coming...
Statement
Mar 3rd, 2010 by admin
Industrial action is and will always be a regrettable last and final option. It is important that we emphasise LAST option.Industrial action or even the threat of industrial action causes everybody concern, worry and sleepless nights.
Unite is your union and as your union we have a responsibility and a duty to try every option that we possibly can to avert strike action.
We have been busy since the beginning of January trying to do exactly that.
Have we been successful yet? So far, No.
Will we keep trying? Yes.
Will we keep trying until the point when there simply is no other option? Again Yes.
We have acted with professionalism, with dignity and with patience to try and find a solution to an array of complex issues.
The talks have covered:
A permanent cost saving solution
Protection and on going commitment to honour existing agreements.
Protection of current crew - Earnings, agreements, promotion, leave, staff travel and routes operated.
A new mixed flying fleet.
Ability to transfer to existing fleets for LHR and LGW crew.
Access to part time contracts.
Disruption Agreement.
Crewing levels.
We are attempting to ensure a safe, more secure and a better future for all current crew. In short, ensuring British Airways is a better place to work moving forward than it is currently.
British Airways management side appear on occasions to be less than enthusiastic about achieving this success; instead preferring a more confrontational approach. At times they appear desperate to provoke a dispute, perhaps to create the stage, upon which they can perform their finest "tragedy" or soap opera, depending on your taste and to show the world, what a tough, hard nosed management they really are.
It is unlikely that today’s much publicised Waterside briefing by Mr Walsh will be conciliatory. The content will more than likely be glorious self justifying details of his plans to "smash" any strike.
It truly is such a shame that as much energy has not been put into solving this dispute as opposed to trying to break it.
In many ways it would be far easier to have negotiated a deal to put one crew member back on our aircraft, than devise plans to put "thousands of volunteers" on instead.
Numerous confrontational ESS communications, the deliberate scheduling by Mr Walsh of this hour long "industrial dispute" update to all staff at the exact point where talks have reached a critical and fragile stage, along side the insistence of holding disciplinaries for several of our negotiating team this very week, and the petty gesture whereby the very reps involved in trying to reach an agreement having their basic pay subtracted for any days spent trying to find that solution- are not helpful, and resemble more of a stick than an olive branch.
This will not distract us in anyway as we remain focused on the task ahead of us. It’s not easy but if we can achieve it, it will be a welcome relief for everybody and that is of course our preferred option.
If we cannot, it will not be from want of trying, but because there are no other options left and if industrial strike action is necessary, then that is exactly what we will do, having done all that we absolutely possibly can to avoid it.
Don’t feel isolated and alone, our safety and our strength and our best chance of achieving a deal is by remaining together, every single person plays a part in that, every single person that abandons their friends and colleagues sends out a message.
No matter how they justify it to themselves, it undermines that strength.
These are worrying times for us all, don’t just expect others to give you strength and confidence, if you are on a flight and you talk to people that have doubts- that are only natural- put your arm around them and give them your strength.
Prepare yourselves, whether that be for the best or the worst... As that time is coming...
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I think that Willie's speech today was spot on.
In fact on page 75 ,my post no.1499 seems quite accurate.
I really feel that today Willie showed, in an assertive way, what the facts are.
He has the moral high ground now.He has shown that his original deal was fair.To make the same savings as losing a crew member ,sustantial changes would have to happen.That would not be as good for crew.
What happens now? Moderate crew will realise what a farce this has been.
Militant crew? Anyone's guess.
In fact on page 75 ,my post no.1499 seems quite accurate.
I really feel that today Willie showed, in an assertive way, what the facts are.
He has the moral high ground now.He has shown that his original deal was fair.To make the same savings as losing a crew member ,sustantial changes would have to happen.That would not be as good for crew.
What happens now? Moderate crew will realise what a farce this has been.
Militant crew? Anyone's guess.
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Yes but given all that, isn't it obvious that BASSA aren't going to call a strike?
If they thought they could win they would have done so by now.
There will be a bit more huffing and puffing but thats it.
In the unlikely event that they do precipitate their early demise by calling a strike, given all that Willie has said today, it will be over in a matter of hours.
If they thought they could win they would have done so by now.
There will be a bit more huffing and puffing but thats it.
In the unlikely event that they do precipitate their early demise by calling a strike, given all that Willie has said today, it will be over in a matter of hours.
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CC89 could have done so well from this if they had stuck to their founding principles and had the cojones to stand up to BASSA and engage. RIP BASSA and CC89 in current form and good riddance.
Willie has to see this right thru to the end now, and he is 99.9% there....bully BASSA reps shud just do the decent thing and go, it's time for change......and a clean slate.....BA could come out of this more united than ever and with some degree of public admiration for standing up to these people with their hideous tactics, offensive images, sick Christmas strike threats, alienating world populations with sick war images, bogus websites, threats etc etc Who was advising them on strategy ??
Note that Simpson and Woodley are pointedly silent - speaks volumes with just clueless lefty Len sticking his head above the parapet - surely over for his dream job too ??
If I were WW I would not have pushed the nuclear button (he doesn't need to)... just give BASSA a little more rope (by which to hang themselves) - they are doing the hard work for him better than he could possibly do himself (imho of course)
Willie has to see this right thru to the end now, and he is 99.9% there....bully BASSA reps shud just do the decent thing and go, it's time for change......and a clean slate.....BA could come out of this more united than ever and with some degree of public admiration for standing up to these people with their hideous tactics, offensive images, sick Christmas strike threats, alienating world populations with sick war images, bogus websites, threats etc etc Who was advising them on strategy ??
Note that Simpson and Woodley are pointedly silent - speaks volumes with just clueless lefty Len sticking his head above the parapet - surely over for his dream job too ??
If I were WW I would not have pushed the nuclear button (he doesn't need to)... just give BASSA a little more rope (by which to hang themselves) - they are doing the hard work for him better than he could possibly do himself (imho of course)
Last edited by TOM100; 3rd Mar 2010 at 21:55.
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First Post
Hello Guys and Dolls,
I have been a "lurker" on these forums, (fora?) for a few years since my retirement from BA. Until today I have not felt the need to post. It has always been enough for me to get a feel for how my old stamping ground and its many fine people are doing.
It is not surprising that tempers fray and views are sharply expressed with all that is at stake at the moment, however, I think it a good time to pass on some age-old advice.
* In conflict it is always better to speak with a quiet and gentle voice.
* And from the world of carpentry: Stop hammering when the nail is flush with the surface.
I miss you all lots and hope this is resolved with the minimum damage for everyone. Lol
HasFlyed
I have been a "lurker" on these forums, (fora?) for a few years since my retirement from BA. Until today I have not felt the need to post. It has always been enough for me to get a feel for how my old stamping ground and its many fine people are doing.
It is not surprising that tempers fray and views are sharply expressed with all that is at stake at the moment, however, I think it a good time to pass on some age-old advice.
* In conflict it is always better to speak with a quiet and gentle voice.
* And from the world of carpentry: Stop hammering when the nail is flush with the surface.
I miss you all lots and hope this is resolved with the minimum damage for everyone. Lol
HasFlyed
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Whatever the union may or may not have done wrong, this dispute started with a very disgruntled bunch of BA employees.
Voting to strike.
They do not seem to have 'won' anything from their employer, so even if WW crushes them at this point, the matter will not have been resolved.
So (unless they simply forget that anything was ever wrong) they will still feel aggrieved.
Something of a pyyrrhic victory for WW, surely?
Voting to strike.
They do not seem to have 'won' anything from their employer, so even if WW crushes them at this point, the matter will not have been resolved.
So (unless they simply forget that anything was ever wrong) they will still feel aggrieved.
Something of a pyyrrhic victory for WW, surely?
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a bit simplistic?
this dispute started with a very disgruntled bunch of BA employees.
Voting to strike.
Voting to strike.
So it could all have been avoided if UNITE/BASSA had properly negotiated in the first place.
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Oh, Watersidewonker is that really the best you can come up with?
Well - here's another one for your legal team.
BASSA sent round a text message this evening telling members that while not much was being discussed in the talks, there was a lot being discussed in the.....adjournments!!
Oh, go on then - here's the text:
"WW today distorted reality. Meetings at TUC have been prolonged, not always face to face but much done in adjournments etc. WW motives very suspect"
They are still taking the line that "WW is out of control". Funny, he certainly didn't appear that way today.
A staunch Union supporter who told me about the text is furious. They have only just realised that the talks not succeeding previously is down to BASSA and AMICUS refusing to be in the same room! They are furious, and are now heading to the BA intranet to sign up to come to work in the event of a strike!
Tom100 - you are right, Amicus have missed the boat big time. They would have had many people leaving BASSA and joining them. Instead, they are coming to the Professional Cabin Crew Council.
Oh, and Watersidewonker, while we're talking legal matters, I do wish Liz wouldn't plagiarize the PCCC flyers. Professional? BASSA? When? The least she could do for £100 per day is think of her own words.
I am BA cabin crew and the above is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
Well - here's another one for your legal team.
BASSA sent round a text message this evening telling members that while not much was being discussed in the talks, there was a lot being discussed in the.....adjournments!!
Oh, go on then - here's the text:
"WW today distorted reality. Meetings at TUC have been prolonged, not always face to face but much done in adjournments etc. WW motives very suspect"
They are still taking the line that "WW is out of control". Funny, he certainly didn't appear that way today.
A staunch Union supporter who told me about the text is furious. They have only just realised that the talks not succeeding previously is down to BASSA and AMICUS refusing to be in the same room! They are furious, and are now heading to the BA intranet to sign up to come to work in the event of a strike!
Tom100 - you are right, Amicus have missed the boat big time. They would have had many people leaving BASSA and joining them. Instead, they are coming to the Professional Cabin Crew Council.
Oh, and Watersidewonker, while we're talking legal matters, I do wish Liz wouldn't plagiarize the PCCC flyers. Professional? BASSA? When? The least she could do for £100 per day is think of her own words.
I am BA cabin crew and the above is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
Last edited by HiFlyer14; 3rd Mar 2010 at 23:08. Reason: smelling.
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Watersidewonker:
I do believe that BA is loading larger ammunition than potatoes. I truly anticipate that carrots, parsnips and sweet peas may also be irrelevant at this moment.
My impression is that you're not getting the one down individuals back..nada, no..its not happening.
Also sounds like BA is serious about strikers losing some benefits. Not sure what the legal foundation is for these actions, but given BASSA's record in the courts I'm feeling a bit of pain regarding militant CC's circumstances.
While BASSA has been busy setting up porn sites, posting false statements regarding BALPA, celebrating passengers holidays being ruined over a snidely named "12 days of Christmas" strike, and losing case after case in the courts...seems that BA has been taking care of business..not only their own behalf, but their employees and their customers.
While BASSA wavers, and can't even give a strike date, BA acts assertively.
As an individual who is an advocate of Unions and their place in the workforce as an advocate for those without a voice I'm amazed and saddened at what BASSA has wrought. You shame true worker advocates.
I do believe that BA is loading larger ammunition than potatoes. I truly anticipate that carrots, parsnips and sweet peas may also be irrelevant at this moment.
My impression is that you're not getting the one down individuals back..nada, no..its not happening.
Also sounds like BA is serious about strikers losing some benefits. Not sure what the legal foundation is for these actions, but given BASSA's record in the courts I'm feeling a bit of pain regarding militant CC's circumstances.
While BASSA has been busy setting up porn sites, posting false statements regarding BALPA, celebrating passengers holidays being ruined over a snidely named "12 days of Christmas" strike, and losing case after case in the courts...seems that BA has been taking care of business..not only their own behalf, but their employees and their customers.
While BASSA wavers, and can't even give a strike date, BA acts assertively.
As an individual who is an advocate of Unions and their place in the workforce as an advocate for those without a voice I'm amazed and saddened at what BASSA has wrought. You shame true worker advocates.
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One thing that doesn't seem to have registered with the union is that BA's continued training of staff to act as cabin crew is building a pool of employees capable of standing in in any crisis in the future. To all intents and purposes, BA are mitigating against the possibility of future strikes, even if the union back down on this.
Refresher courses would be required no doubt, but it's an interesting strategy, and one that should concern them now the precedent has been set.
Refresher courses would be required no doubt, but it's an interesting strategy, and one that should concern them now the precedent has been set.
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Pressure
I would imagine that a little pressure will have been felt by those that manage BA, with regard to passenger figures. OK, it does not show growth, but it does show recovery, along with the operating profit announced the other week.
OK, it does in no way match the position that Unite are in, but it does give credence to the temporary savings for a temporary slump negotiating position all those months ago.
I await the usual robust responses!
OK, it does in no way match the position that Unite are in, but it does give credence to the temporary savings for a temporary slump negotiating position all those months ago.
I await the usual robust responses!