British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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I'm just not sure how much longer the BA board is going to be happy to let BASSA drag their heels and allow the forward bookings to be decimated on a daily basis; BASSA have shown no real willingness to negotiate in good faith for the last year, I'm not sure I'd trust them to start now. (and I don't even think BASSA are aware of their poor starting position for these talks)
I think if I were CEO, I'd be giving them till Wednesday to agree a deal, and after that, make it quite clear that from then on, all losses in forward bookings were being added to the IFCE saving target. I would mail all crew individually and make them an offer, and let them know that BASSA continued to act as they are, new punitive contracts that clawed back the losses would be forthcoming.
In simple terms, to borrow an American phrase, BA need to tell BASSA to "sh*t or get off the pot" and if that doesn't work, just go around BASSA and cut a deal with the staff direct and see what BASSA have to say about it later.
BA can't be held to ransom like this.
I think if I were CEO, I'd be giving them till Wednesday to agree a deal, and after that, make it quite clear that from then on, all losses in forward bookings were being added to the IFCE saving target. I would mail all crew individually and make them an offer, and let them know that BASSA continued to act as they are, new punitive contracts that clawed back the losses would be forthcoming.
In simple terms, to borrow an American phrase, BA need to tell BASSA to "sh*t or get off the pot" and if that doesn't work, just go around BASSA and cut a deal with the staff direct and see what BASSA have to say about it later.
BA can't be held to ransom like this.
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My flights over the last few days have all been less than half full. This cannot continue.
I'm sure that there must be a few ex accountants or city brokers in the cabin crew community (hello Private Eye!) that would agree
An unfair remark don't you think, made by yourself and many others on this thread?
Some of us are qualified in various degrees which have pride of place in our homes.
We do have a little more intelligence than we are given credit for though not all of us choose to shout it from the rooftops. There are cabin crew who have LLBs, crew with various business degrees who have been to the top ten universities in the UK, namely Bristol, Warwick, Kings and Durham to name a few. Some of them have a First in Economics and Philosophy from Bristol if I'm not mistaken, having read an earlier post written by BAcrewboy.
Why they chose to work for BA as Cabin Crew is their business and no one else's. No one has to justify it here. This thread is about industrial relations and negotiations.
I love my job and consider myself extremely fortunate to be employed by BA. I wear my uniform with pride and give our passengers simply the best service every day that I fly because that is exactly what I would expect if I were flying BA. That for me will never change.
So guys, please don't undermine and ridicule us and what we do, we don't undermine you. I have the utmost regard for all my colleagues in each and every department in BA and respect what they do. Likewise, I respect anyone else who works for a living in any industry regardless of what they do.
Mods, my aplogies in advance for going off thread.
I'm BA cabin crew and the above represent my personal opinions and not those of BA.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 28th Feb 2010 at 22:40. Reason: Spelling and repetition!
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Tiramisu
So guys, please don't undermine and ridicule us and what we do,
Your comments & well founded arguments have provided a superb insight into the true heart & spirit of BA's excellent CC employees. Keep up the good work & I hope you succeed in helping to lead your colleagues through these dangerous times.
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My recollection is that this was as a result of one of 3 questions put to the floor by the Unite reps, and was unanimously passed by the 3000+ members present that day (14th Dec)
Am looking for a link now...
Am looking for a link now...
This took place at the Sandown Park. I didn't go to that one. I've been to two at Kempton though.
Agreed...at jingoistic motion to pass.
I guess it was subsequently superseeded by the court saying it would make a ruling in February on the imposition, and announcing a 12 day strike over Xmas. This in turn resulted in BA asking the new JOINT team to come back to the table.
I for one am glad they did, and didn't stick to such a stupid motion.
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BASSA has lost it's relevance to BA and BA cabin crew now, they can't be trusted to represent their members in a rational way. However, I don't think that a company like BA should have employees, cabin crew or not who aren't represented by a union.
Anyone working in the UK should be allowed that right. We as cabin crew just need to find a union who can negotiate in a civilised manner and also not alienate it's members from 99.9% of the rest of the population of the world.
Anyone working in the UK should be allowed that right. We as cabin crew just need to find a union who can negotiate in a civilised manner and also not alienate it's members from 99.9% of the rest of the population of the world.
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Gem from the SUN over the weekend.
Obviously not a true view on life as a CC, but it shows how badly BASSA/UNITE have represented crew to the public
No public support, no colleague support, no support from other unions. i wonder if LALA is feeling kind of isolated, or do her rose tinted, seriously thick, glasses, distort this snapshot of reality?
CB
The Sun reports that the travelling public back British Airways in their dispute with cabin crew new research from Cheap flights reveals. A total of 1,087 passengers were surveyed last week, with the online poll finding that 75 per cent had no sympathy for cabin crew describing them as overpaid and underworked
No public support, no colleague support, no support from other unions. i wonder if LALA is feeling kind of isolated, or do her rose tinted, seriously thick, glasses, distort this snapshot of reality?
CB
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selfish
Quote: "it shows how badly BASSA/UNITE have represented crew to the public"
Is that maybe one of the reasons why you don't get any public support?
Always someone elses mistake.... "we BA Cabin Crew never do mistakes"...
Or maybe the public lives in the real world, not in LALA-land?
Is that maybe one of the reasons why you don't get any public support?
Always someone elses mistake.... "we BA Cabin Crew never do mistakes"...
Or maybe the public lives in the real world, not in LALA-land?
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Airbussinger
I think it fair to say that the unions stance has changed with the wind direction and due to their poor negotiation at the beginning of last year resulted in imposition being carried out by BA. Neither the cabin crew or the general public really new what the union stood for from day to day.
I don't think the post you have quoted from implied or stated that BA CC never make mistakes.
As individuals apart from removing ourselves from the union it's difficult to move the juggernaut onto a new tack. There was an alternative union in Amicus but with the merging of them and BASSA the alternative has now gone.
As you can see from historic posts here it has been extremely difficult for the moderate voice to be heard in BASSA so I have to agree with Crash and Burn that the BA cabin crew have been poorly represented.
Many crew I fly with have a far more moderate view but don't feel they can leave the union (we all need to feel a degree of protection in our work environment) or voice their more moderate view within the union.
I don't think the post you have quoted from implied or stated that BA CC never make mistakes.
As individuals apart from removing ourselves from the union it's difficult to move the juggernaut onto a new tack. There was an alternative union in Amicus but with the merging of them and BASSA the alternative has now gone.
As you can see from historic posts here it has been extremely difficult for the moderate voice to be heard in BASSA so I have to agree with Crash and Burn that the BA cabin crew have been poorly represented.
Many crew I fly with have a far more moderate view but don't feel they can leave the union (we all need to feel a degree of protection in our work environment) or voice their more moderate view within the union.
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Beerdrinker
No, the IA has to be started within 28 days of the end of the ballot, and there have to be 7 days notice. So IA has to be started by 22 March and therefore has to be notified by 15th March.
I wouldn't hold your breath though.
If the militant faction get their way and IA is announced, the other factions in Bassa know it will be the end of the union.
I wouldn't hold your breath though.
If the militant faction get their way and IA is announced, the other factions in Bassa know it will be the end of the union.
Last edited by midman; 1st Mar 2010 at 15:36.
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How is BASSA organised at ground level? My father was a longtime member of a union, and he always maintained that everyone should go to, and vote, at local ground level meetings, otherwise union policy got chosen by the activists, who were nearly always at the militant end. Also, reps got chosen by the activists, who became a law unto themselves. If BASSA have ground level meetings, it is there the moderates should take back the union, not by going off and starting another, which a little way down the line could go the same way.
My OH is a BA engineer who has seen job losses and restructuring, and is concerned as to filling the hole in the pension scheme. CC have got to make some sacrifices, the crew level being an obvious one, especially as LGW already operate those levels. Other sections have made sacrifices, CC may be the public face of the company, but they are not the whole company. They have to share the pain. It's because they don't seem to be willing to do that there are volunteers to help out should they strike.
I think newfleet is also going to happen, BASSA needs to get the best deal for legacy CC, and also a decent deal for newfleet, who presumably will also be unionised? A bit more realism a lot earlier could have seen a satisfactory outcome without the glare of publicity and panicking passengers into booking elsewhere. And if BA management were intransigent even then, CC would have had a much better public case in PR terms.
My OH is a BA engineer who has seen job losses and restructuring, and is concerned as to filling the hole in the pension scheme. CC have got to make some sacrifices, the crew level being an obvious one, especially as LGW already operate those levels. Other sections have made sacrifices, CC may be the public face of the company, but they are not the whole company. They have to share the pain. It's because they don't seem to be willing to do that there are volunteers to help out should they strike.
I think newfleet is also going to happen, BASSA needs to get the best deal for legacy CC, and also a decent deal for newfleet, who presumably will also be unionised? A bit more realism a lot earlier could have seen a satisfactory outcome without the glare of publicity and panicking passengers into booking elsewhere. And if BA management were intransigent even then, CC would have had a much better public case in PR terms.
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UK Parliament - Early Day Motions By Details
This may be of interest to some of you. Early Day Motion, 9 signatures so far, which doesnt mean much, some MP's will sign anything to be honest..!
What is of interest to me however is the fact that it starts by mentioning the fact that "for the second time in recent months British Airways cabin crew have voted overwhelmingly in favour of industrial action" yet we have no strike being called to date.
If the union is going to keep their promise regarding Easter the available window for strike action is shrinking daily.
Time will tell eh...
This may be of interest to some of you. Early Day Motion, 9 signatures so far, which doesnt mean much, some MP's will sign anything to be honest..!
What is of interest to me however is the fact that it starts by mentioning the fact that "for the second time in recent months British Airways cabin crew have voted overwhelmingly in favour of industrial action" yet we have no strike being called to date.
If the union is going to keep their promise regarding Easter the available window for strike action is shrinking daily.
Time will tell eh...
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This may be of interest to some of you. Early Day Motion, 9 signatures so far, which doesnt mean much, some MP's will sign anything to be honest..!
He also served as a Trade Union Convener with the Transport and General Workers Union. Jim has been a supporter of the Labour movement all his life.
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WW industrial update at waterside
WW is holding a 'talk' or update on the industrial situation at BA in Waterside on Wednesday , according to an ESS mail I have just received. There are also details on how to view the talk from different sections (eg Cargo), if I read the email correctly.
Hopefully we shall all know more then?
Hopefully we shall all know more then?
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No doubt UNITE are trying to remind NuLab of the large donations they make (including recently).
And no doubt NuLab are BEGGING them not to go ahead with the disastrous PR exercise of a publicly reviled strike just before a General Election.
Talk about playing into the hands of the Tories.
One of the benefits of being a BASSA member for those that feel they "have to be in it to get protection".
You're supporting the Labour party, whether you vote for them or not.
And no doubt NuLab are BEGGING them not to go ahead with the disastrous PR exercise of a publicly reviled strike just before a General Election.
Talk about playing into the hands of the Tories.
One of the benefits of being a BASSA member for those that feel they "have to be in it to get protection".
You're supporting the Labour party, whether you vote for them or not.
Junior trash
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Given where it is now, do you think the situation would be any different if there were no volunteers/temps waiting in the wings?
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Volunteers
The fact that thousands of people, including pilots, volunteered to become CC, plus more willing to help break the strike on the ground, is highly significant. There is little support for CC from other BA employees and a majority of the public don't support them either. What a change from three months ago when the CC were generally well-regarded.
As most people like to be liked, I feel that cabin crew will hate the feeling of isolation, especially if they go on strike.
As most people like to be liked, I feel that cabin crew will hate the feeling of isolation, especially if they go on strike.
baggersup
Maybe, maybe not. Though it could be a climb down it could just as easily be be that the CEO is about to put the hammer down. Maybe the lawyered SOSR letters are going out on Wednesday and Willie is planning on giving his Henry V speech. Given the efforts BA are making to to broadcast the meeting to it's workforce it certainly looks like a biggy.