British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI

[Der absolute Hammer]

BA crew move onwards and upwards?
I doubt it.
What airline or employer even on earth would employ an ex BA cabin crew member. They are all tarred with the same brush now, trouble makers every one.
Since union members, per se, cannot be employment embargoed, it'll just have to be the BA work history that crucifies you.

[Weather Map]

I disagree there are some BA cabin crew who could move onwards and upwards if they left the company.Many of our cabin crew are well qualified and not all of them want IA sadly those that can think for themselves and have an opinion are the enemy which is wrong.Please don't judge them all the same i can assure you they are not.There are alot of great cabin crew who work for BA to compliment them though there are also alot of selfish wingers and troublemakers who can't see how well off they are those are the ones that should be drummed out.

[pvmw]

I disagree there are some BA cabin crew who could move onwards and upwards if they left the company.Many of our cabin crew are well qualified and not all of them want IA sadly those that can think for themselves and have an opinion are the enemy which is wrong.Please don't judge them all the same i can assure you they are not .

I'm sure that is the case, but look at it from the point of view of a recruiter. A stack of CVs on your desk, and a very quick first scan to identify those to read / study more fully. It is generally said that no more than 30 seconds is spent assessing a CV before deciding whether to bin it or look more closely.

The letters that will leap out will be "BA", and that may well be enough to consign it straight to the bin. It may not be fair, certainly not on the good CC out there, but its the way life works. Given a choice, what recruiter will take a chance on employing someone who may be a troublemaker in his company when he has other choices?

Well done BASSA, you've blighted the career prospects of an entire workforce. I doubt they care tho', as long as they still have a gravy train to ride.

[Weather Map]

Your scare tactics sound a bit like BASSA's.When this all blows over and it will IF some cabin crew want to move on to whatever i'm sure they will no problem.As i have said there are alot of great cabin crew in BA.

[mra4eng]

To be fair, CC are in the hospitality trade - they are there to serve passengers. Therefore, they are perfectly qualified to work in restaurants, cinemas etc etc, where there will probably be plenty of opportunities.

I'm not sure about retail (such as M&S), though - they will probably need to go on a number of training courses to enhance their skills should they wish to work in retail.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Not meant as a scare tactic...scare in to doing what? It has already been volunarily done.
There are a lot of multi lingual crew of all sorts around. If you as a bulk recruiter needed crew, would you willingly take a known union member from a radical rabid union such as you might think BASSA? Wouldn't you assume that any ex BA cabin crew were more than likely a union member? In which case you would bun their appication straight away.

[AlpineSkier]

Long-term sickness

IIRC the BASSA boss has been sick for more than a year. Now I know that in principle companies are not forced to retain employees forever under such conditions but believe it is down to the employer to decide exact circumstances/time-scale etc.

Can anyone say what the regulations at BA state in such a case ?

[Weather Map]

Scare as planting the seeds of doubt how BA cabin crew will not get employed else where what rubbish .I would not assume anything about BA cabin crew. That's your opinion which your entitled to it's not mine i think it's dangerous to assume and tar everyone with the same brush.

[teddybear44]

pvmw

Don't think a recruiter would automatically associate in the way you suggest. If assessing a CV, you really need to look at more than just who the last employer was. Components such as educational and professional qualifications, achievements, positions of responsibility held and other abilities and interests all contribute to the overall picture of the applicant. People who work in HR probably would not hold such simplistic views as 'oh, x company.... must be trouble'. There may of course, be those that hold biased views on certain things but the job would be to be objective with regard to assessing the CV itself. I still think people associate BA with customer service and that its staff have a high level of people skills. I've used BA a lot and would do again. Industrial disputes are never pleasant and I don't feel there is a valid case for this particular one but I also don't agree that simply being party to a dispute should impact on your employability into the future. This does seem a bit like thread drift but chucking my tuppence worth in anyway.

Regards,

Ted

[Doors To Manuel]

tarred with same brush

Code:

Don't think a recruiter would automatically associate in the way you suggest

Agree. A former colleague of mine was BA management in the 90s at the time of the naughtiness between BA and the bearded one. He went for a new job and the recruiter asked "Did you have anything to do with the 'dirty tricks' campaign?". What a stupid question! There can only be one answer, regardless of the truth.
It's like a policeman asking you if you have got any drugs, or the US immigration form that says 'tick here if you are a spy' etc.

Anyway, my colleague got the job.

[Weather Map]

Well i'm glad we got that sorted out .Whilst i don't agree with the IA or BASSA i do recognise that all our cabin crew are NOT all BASSA hardliners.There are some realy decent hard working genuine cabin crew in BA and they need to be given some support.

[PaddyMiguel]

Hiring BA crew

I worked for an airline in the Middle East and I was absolutely forbidden from hiring any ex BA cabin crew. 'Too much trouble' was the reason given.

[Weather Map]

Most BA cabin crew i know who have left the company have moved into other fields.I have never heard of BA cabin crew leaving to join Saudi,Gulf Air or Emirates i have heard of crew coming to BA from those airlines though.I think this raises a good point here that BA cabin crew have the best terms and conditions in the industry (which they know) so i can't see them leaving to join say BMI or Virgin or any airlines in the middle east.Anyway the thread here is about the cabin crew IA we should keep on topic.

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by JayPee28bpr

You are, indeed, wrong and, had you read the article and not just the headline, you would not have raised the issue I suggest.

Agreed on all counts, sorry.

[PaddyMiguel]

So, Weathermap #1565, where are they going to go if BA gives them the elbow?

[Weather Map]

Who says BA is going to give them the elbow?.The problem in the cabin crew community is the more senior main crew that can't achive or don't want promotion tend to get left behind .They are not motivated and are bored the lifestyle is very good and they know that they would struggle to get the perks the money and the time off else where.Some of the senior CSD's and PSR's have lost interest and are not the best leaders it all comes down to BA not performance managing their crew.

But to say that BA cabin crew would struggle to get employment elsewhere is just a joke ! big assumption, again i don't see cabin crew from BA wanting to fly with other airlines they know they wouldn't have it as good as they do at BA.Believe it or not some do go on to do other things there is life after BA .

[PaddyMiguel]

Who says BA is going to give them the elbow?.

Er, you did Weather Map:

It realy is time for WW to say to cabin crew fit in or

Yes, there is life after BA as I can testify, but the transferrable skills of the BASSA hierarchy and the dead-at-the-wheel CSDs (if that's not the same thing) that you refer to have little attraction in the market place.

[teddybear44]

Why do I get the feeling that there is NOT going to be a strike !
What would happen to UNITE cred, if in the event, if it's poorly supported ?
I've heard a lot about 'messages being sent' but I suspect the desire is not wholeheartedly there, for a walk out? (too much indicative evidence otherwise IMHO)
Is the new tactic then to create maximum uncertainty (not least for the customers) and attempt to force the hand of the other side?
If the main players also feel this, then is there a means to bring about the end game, or are we going to continue with this situation ad infinitem?
Somebody Please!!

[Weather Map]

Paddy Miguel .

Yes i did say it is time for WW to get rid of the cabin crew that continue with this farce.There are many cabin crew that don't want IA though which i have also said.What i say and what WW does is another story.I am not defending any BASSA hardliners i don't think BA will give them the elbow though .This started with me posting that there are many crew in BA qualified to move onwards and upwards and there are many that are not .Then Der absolute Hammer posted BA cabin crew move onwards and upwards i doubt it.All i am saying is don't tar all BA cabin crew with the same brush there are many crew with excellent skills to offer other companies.To say that because they are caught up in the middle of IA and are not employable is ridiculous.Many crew don't want IA.As for La La and co i realy hope that WW crushes them once and for all and we can get back to business this mess is not doing any of us any good.I have no symapthy for BASSA or their army.But i do think we should show some support for the crew who voted NO and not tar them with the same brush.

[vanHorck]

Perhaps in a way BA created her own Trojan Horse.

Reading back a few posts regarding CC crew never transferring to other airlines but that the reverse does happen (middle east crews were mentioned) it suddenly struck me how paying too much over the odds simply forces demotivated staff to stick with BA, simply because they can never get similar working conditions (pay and other perks) elsewhere.

So, had BA been paying just about market rate in the last decades, it would have allowed people leaving from time to time (for example because of dissatisfaction with management decisions). The result would have been a less experienced but perhaps more dynamic workforce and a lower % of dissatisfied staff.

The unions too had a role to play in this. It is questionable that LONG TERM "well over the odds working conditions" is beneficial to the workforce as a whole (effects on long term profitability of the airline, effects on employability at other employers) and to the mental health state of the individual worker, who ends up in a dead-end street he/she probably never wanted to be in, in the first place...

All guilty and all victims but are all striving to restore the situation to a more healthy one?