British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI

[Clarified]

Pp1

Thanks for the clarification.

[ottergirl]

binsleepin, our posts crossed, see above for a breakdown of the meal break scenario. The problem with T5 security has been a recent notice we have been issued with requiring incoming cabin crew to have no contact with outgoing passengers, something to do with contaminating them!!!!!!!!!! (Some of us have toothpaste that is deemed to be very scary)The Flight crew have slipped under the net on this one.

There is not enough Boeing work to stand alone so it has to be mingled with Airbus for rostering effciency. Additionally, we have a different system for bidding, etc and different days off requirements. You need to look at an entire roster run for the full picture as individual days are misleading.

PS I'm not saying that we couldn't be more efficient but there is not as much wastage as some would have you believe.

[ottergirl]

If that happens (the i & p r) then next year of the year after we will doubtless see more damaging nonsense from BASSA.

Or maybe the ground staff, or the engineers, or even Balpa. We are not the only group who have given BA a reputation for poor IR, in fact pre-Jan 2008 we had 11 years of peaceful living. It was the poor terminal staff who everyone was slagging off for summer walk-outs. I don't support this IR but I do feel that it helps to keep a perspective of the big picture. The office staff are fairly blameless but the front-line staff have all added to this reputation.

[Andyismyname]

Ottergirl

Thanks for your reply, but I feel the limitations of the current agreements are way too restrictive in this day and age.

For starters, on shorthaul, keep the Cabin Crew, and Pilots, and the aircraft together for 3 sectors..............no need to rebrief, pay-in bars etc. The number of Cabin Crew who are on standby to cover "lost trips" is ridiculous. I believe the Pilots cover say the 80 or so Airbuses with a crew or two on home standby and a crew or two on airport standby...............whereas we have loads of cabin crew on standby.

I think BA will now implement whatever they like. A year has been wasted instead being used in negotiations to secure our future. Sadly the only consistencies shown by our union is to be obstructive, and to lie to us and our colleagues.

We deserve whatever fate awaits us.

[LD12986]

I have checked on Factiva which provides access to the Reuters newswires as well as all major international newswires, newspapers, print publications and I cannot find any references in English or German to Jorge Huereds.

[ottergirl]

For starters, on shorthaul, keep the Cabin Crew, and Pilots, and the aircraft together for 3 sectors..............no need to rebrief, pay-in bars etc. The number of Cabin Crew who are on standby to cover "lost trips" is ridiculous. I believe the Pilots cover say the 80 or so Airbuses with a crew or two on home standby and a crew or two on airport standby...............whereas we have loads of cabin crew on standby.

If you can convince T5 security of that I'm sure BA would be very grateful! As would I, its no fun keep going through security screening, being patted in places you didn't know you had.
A full 767 crew on standby is 8 people which is why even 3 full crews would look like more than a couple of Flight crew! If the DME or IST goes out of hours we would need them and our total standby contingency appears to be around 25 staggered at different times!

[Andyismyname]

LD12986

Perhaps an appropriate email to the Reuters Press Office, and Legal Departments could be in order?

Contact Us - Thomson Reuters

[Snas]

The press appears to have started to turn it's attention towards some of the finer details within the last court judgement, which is probably a good thing as most crew seem to be unaware of their reps behaviour during what they have been calling negotiations : -

Unions deny split over BA crew payments - Telegraph

[nurjio]

Otty Gal - Can you believe it, I must be a witch/wizard/phsycic. Read that link above, and I did not read that report before posting earlier.

BA LT are going to drive this nail with the biggest mallet ever used in the rocky history of BA IA. The latest fiction re-lufty union support, has, I believe been txt'd to all members. The litigation that McCluckle keeps banging on about is almost unavoidable now.

BASSA - you are shameful. And still Iwo Jima is there on their site.

Nurj

[FlexSRS]

Originally Posted by ottergirl

There'll be a New-fleet for sure with slightly better conditions than first proposed (the original would see crew turnover go through the roof and cost a fortune in recruitment and training everytime Emirates, Etihad and Virgin came knocking)

BA have always talked about 'Market rate + 10%" for New Fleet.

Unless Emirates and Virgin are going to start paying Market rate +20%, I don't imagine there is going to be a rush to leave BA for them. In the real world, a chance of a 10% pay-rise for doing the same job is a fairly big positive for most people. (especially in a recession, and for those crew who aren't lucky enough to be able to walk in to highly paid oil exploration work like 'PoofinBoots' or 'wonker' or whatever he's called today.


Do you remember Branson writing to his cabin crew when they were after more pay? In essence he told employees that if they wanted more pay than they have been offered, they should probably go work somewhere else. I don't think he'll be going for Market rate +20%

[IYCSWICSWICW]

No Postings for an Hour? What's going on?

GF

[sixmilehighclub]

Snas - from your Daily Telegraph link -

Main crew flying long-haul from Heathrow receive an average £16,287 allowances on top of their £18,693 basic pay.

Not really fair of the press to generalise salaries for all crew, using the highest pay bracket in existence.
Crew would have to had done at least 14 years service for that basic. On the opposite, new starters get about £10,000 basic, and crew with five years service would be earning a basic of around £12,500.

The 900 hour duty rule twinned with poor flying duty scheduling also prevents crew earning much more than £500 in some months.

I wish the press would get their facts right. The public as a result are swayed to think BA crew are being greedy.

Six

[IYCSWICSWICW]

..and therefore 6mh, the lowly paid would in effect be better off with an hourly rate as it would be less lucrative for the 'chosen few' to live off the benefits of skewed rostering under the present regime.

BTW the figures in the DT are from public sources and are not leaked by BA, although BASSA would have it's members believe that the 'inflated' wages are leaked by their employer.

[dave747436]

Sixmilehighclub

The other side of the coin is Len McCluskey's quote in the latest Unite newsletter,

75% of all [British Airways] crew earn less than £20000 per year..

Which is equally misleading.

And I'd ask you to bear in mind that while your quote is from a newspaper, Len McC's quote is from an official Unite publication..

[Juan Tugoh]

Main crew flying long-haul from Heathrow receive an average £16,287 allowances

These allowances are taxed at a reduced rate and therefore the amount recieved net is greater than a normal person earning £16,287. When grossed up a normal person would have to earn nearly £20,000 to take home the same amount. So a new joiner on only your reported £10k per annum takes home the equivalent of £30k gross. Not bad for a job that requires 6 weeks training.Precious few jobs in the Uk would give a new joiner a starting salary of £30K.

I have the highest respect for CC they do a job I would hate to do, with a great deal of profesionalism and humour. I just wish that it was recognised that in BA they are well paid and looked after. Given the highest wages in the industry is it too much to ask that they also do their demanding job with a little flexibility and that they are represented by a union with some notion of truth and integrity?

BASSA are dispicable for their persistent lies, attempts to besmirch their colleagues on the flight deck and their appalling and ill considered attempt to liken themselves to WWII heroes and holocaust victims.

[Snas]

using the highest pay bracket in existence

I'm inclined to agree with you 6miles, however BASSA always seem to choose the lowest figures available highlighting poor starving crew who have to claim benefits and hold second jobs - which is NOT my experience.

As always, somewhere in the middle is the land of truth and honey I guess.

[wascrew]

no posts

I guess no posts because everyone is waiting to hear what happens at the meeting 11am start.

In BA news today WW makes it clear new fleet will go ahead so BASAA have to negotiate best deal possible
Don`t know if i heard it here but stumbling block over attendance allowance is how to increase annually it in line with other pay increases.

Other stumbling blocks to me.........promotion for legacy crew and new disruption agreement

[sixmilehighclub]

attendance allowance

So to boost salaries where they've been cut elsewhere, crew turn in for work even if quite sick, spread it around and then begins an epidemic. Fabulous idea. Not.

The reason the sickness levels appear so high amongst crew in BA is due to the figures including long term sickness (cancer, etc), and they take the part timers into account. This means if a part timer goes sick for 7 days, they have a 50% attendance record that month. A full timer with 7 days sick would be 75%. So two people going sick appear as 62.5%. Not a true picture really.

[wascrew]

sixmile

why go on to that subject?

the `attendance allowance` was proposed by BA to mitigate the loss of earnings for legacy crew as routes transfer to the new fleet they were also given assurances on the phased and selection of routes as and when transferred.
did BA have to do that?
this dispute is not about sickness.
if the crew do go on strike...possible all new fleet all new contracts and no safeguards/guarantees

which option would you want your union to `negotiate` on?

[sixmilehighclub]

The figure for this fixed allowance payment is about £8k per annum I believe. This will be fully taxable under UK taxation, unlike now where allowances are partially non taxable, as most of the allowances are triggered overseas.

The tax system allows for crew pay to be a little higher. Under the new system it would result in loss of pay.

Here's the dilemma worrying most crew.
Those that don't accept the new payment will remain on old terms, however we can guarantee that to save overhead costs, the more lucrative trips will be assigned to new fleet/crew not in the current allowance system, and to those signing up for the new fixed payment.
Crew who don't accept the payment are already earning and living on higher than what the averaged fixed payment would give them, so they will stay on their current allowance to avoid a pay cut.
They may then find regrettably that they don't get the lucrative trips.
For some its a lose-lose, for others its a chance.