British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
Yesterday we closed the forum.
Because people from both sides of the dispute continued to misbehave in the most childish of manners.
Since we Mods are not willing to use our precious free time to babysit an anonymous group of feral toddlers, it is important that all of you refresh your knowledge of the site and forum rules, and stick to them.
This thread is primarily for BA cabin crew to discuss the current situation.
People who are not cabin crew yet feel the need to contribute here, have to remember for whom this thread is primarily meant, and moderate their output accordingly.
Failure to behave according to the above will lead to loss of posting privileges.
Ultimately to the entire PPRuNe site.
Because people from both sides of the dispute continued to misbehave in the most childish of manners.
Since we Mods are not willing to use our precious free time to babysit an anonymous group of feral toddlers, it is important that all of you refresh your knowledge of the site and forum rules, and stick to them.
This thread is primarily for BA cabin crew to discuss the current situation.
People who are not cabin crew yet feel the need to contribute here, have to remember for whom this thread is primarily meant, and moderate their output accordingly.
Failure to behave according to the above will lead to loss of posting privileges.
Ultimately to the entire PPRuNe site.
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Here you are....
BA's opening statement to the High Court:
In a written opening statement, the airline's QC Bruce Carr said the case involved a "key part of what [chief executive] Willie Walsh described last year as BA's 'fight for survival'". On Friday, BA is expected to post pre-tax losses topping £440m for its first nine months.
Mr Carr argued that "crewing levels, even if contained in a collective agreement, are totally inappropriate for incorporation into the personal contracts of individuals. It may be a matter for collective pressure but each employee does not have a legal power to dictate BA's crewing levels."
Mr Carr stressed that "crewing levels only bring BA into line with what competitors are already providing and what BA introduced – with the union's agreement – at Gatwick".
He also pointed out that the current manning levels are comfortably above international aviation standards, with a minimum eight crew required on a Boeing 777. "BA now uses 11. The claimants wish the court to order BA to use 12,"
Mr Carr said.
As a result of the changes, the court heard that BA was able to accept 1,003 requests for voluntary redundancy and grant 637 part-time working applications – enabling savings of £80m over the next 18 months.
Source : - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/epic/bay/7140411/BA-broke-contracts-Unite-tells-court.html
BA's opening statement to the High Court:
In a written opening statement, the airline's QC Bruce Carr said the case involved a "key part of what [chief executive] Willie Walsh described last year as BA's 'fight for survival'". On Friday, BA is expected to post pre-tax losses topping £440m for its first nine months.
Mr Carr argued that "crewing levels, even if contained in a collective agreement, are totally inappropriate for incorporation into the personal contracts of individuals. It may be a matter for collective pressure but each employee does not have a legal power to dictate BA's crewing levels."
Mr Carr stressed that "crewing levels only bring BA into line with what competitors are already providing and what BA introduced – with the union's agreement – at Gatwick".
He also pointed out that the current manning levels are comfortably above international aviation standards, with a minimum eight crew required on a Boeing 777. "BA now uses 11. The claimants wish the court to order BA to use 12,"
Mr Carr said.
As a result of the changes, the court heard that BA was able to accept 1,003 requests for voluntary redundancy and grant 637 part-time working applications – enabling savings of £80m over the next 18 months.
Source : - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/epic/bay/7140411/BA-broke-contracts-Unite-tells-court.html
Last edited by Snas; 3rd Feb 2010 at 14:49.
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Would BASSA / Unite have objected if BA had imposed an increase in cabin crew compliments aboard their aircraft?
If the answer to this is NO then crew numbers cannot be contractual..
If the answer to this is NO then crew numbers cannot be contractual..
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Please read the latest from the PCCC
3 February 2010
Dear Colleague,
The Professional Cabin Crew Council have, for some time, felt that we need to improve relations between employee and employer at BA. By working in co-operation with BA, without losing sight of our own needs, we are confident that we can secure a better, more productive relationship that will have long-term benefits for all of us. We have felt that Unite, and in particular, BASSA have not acted in our best interests, particularly over the past 2 years. Yesterday we found that out for ourselves.
On Monday 1 February 2010 the Professional Cabin Crew Council launched our website www.professionalcrewcouncil.com. Unable to refute our views or any of the information put out on our website, BASSA decided to adopt a dirty tricks campaign.
A senior BASSA rep spent valuable time and good money buying the same domain name as ours, with the .co.uk suffix. He then spent time and money putting hard core pornography on it and adding the title “A professional trade union? I don’t think so.” Unfortunately he did not have the intelligence to hide the fact that he was the purchaser of the domain name, and we have concrete evidence of his identity.
We are disgusted and appalled by the behaviour of a BASSA representative. We are absolutely astounded that, instead of spending time and effort on negotiating this appalling situation that they have put us in, they are wasting their energy and money on offensive and contemptible things like this.
However, it has strengthened our determination and so it should yours. It has proved the point that now more than ever, we need proper representation. We need to stop this strike, before we all get hurt. It has been made clear that people who strike will lose their staff travel, they will risk all of us ending up in shoddy airport hotels, and they may even lose their jobs. Additionally, we have factual information that the temps are being recalled to start work this month. Yet, Unite refuse to negotiate on the Monthly Travel Payment. The Monthly Travel Payment is our only opportunity to secure our jobs against New Fleet, but once New Fleet has started, that negotiating power will diminish.
It was never our intention to get into the usual BASSA “he said, they said” battles. However we feel that this information is so despicable, our community needs to know. Please continue to spread the word about Professional Cabin Crew Council, as they are trying to block our email address with hate mail, and junk mail. Cabin crew interested in the Professional Cabin Crew Council can contact us directly via our website.
We are determined to continue striving for better representation within our company. We have your support and a wealth of support coming in from outsiders – see the attached copy of an email sent to us from an ex-cabin crew colleague. Thank you for your continued support, and faith – keep pushing that boulder!
The PCCC Team
www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
[email protected]
Dear Colleague,
How BASSA waste time and money
The Professional Cabin Crew Council have, for some time, felt that we need to improve relations between employee and employer at BA. By working in co-operation with BA, without losing sight of our own needs, we are confident that we can secure a better, more productive relationship that will have long-term benefits for all of us. We have felt that Unite, and in particular, BASSA have not acted in our best interests, particularly over the past 2 years. Yesterday we found that out for ourselves.
On Monday 1 February 2010 the Professional Cabin Crew Council launched our website www.professionalcrewcouncil.com. Unable to refute our views or any of the information put out on our website, BASSA decided to adopt a dirty tricks campaign.
A senior BASSA rep spent valuable time and good money buying the same domain name as ours, with the .co.uk suffix. He then spent time and money putting hard core pornography on it and adding the title “A professional trade union? I don’t think so.” Unfortunately he did not have the intelligence to hide the fact that he was the purchaser of the domain name, and we have concrete evidence of his identity.
We are disgusted and appalled by the behaviour of a BASSA representative. We are absolutely astounded that, instead of spending time and effort on negotiating this appalling situation that they have put us in, they are wasting their energy and money on offensive and contemptible things like this.
However, it has strengthened our determination and so it should yours. It has proved the point that now more than ever, we need proper representation. We need to stop this strike, before we all get hurt. It has been made clear that people who strike will lose their staff travel, they will risk all of us ending up in shoddy airport hotels, and they may even lose their jobs. Additionally, we have factual information that the temps are being recalled to start work this month. Yet, Unite refuse to negotiate on the Monthly Travel Payment. The Monthly Travel Payment is our only opportunity to secure our jobs against New Fleet, but once New Fleet has started, that negotiating power will diminish.
It was never our intention to get into the usual BASSA “he said, they said” battles. However we feel that this information is so despicable, our community needs to know. Please continue to spread the word about Professional Cabin Crew Council, as they are trying to block our email address with hate mail, and junk mail. Cabin crew interested in the Professional Cabin Crew Council can contact us directly via our website.
We are determined to continue striving for better representation within our company. We have your support and a wealth of support coming in from outsiders – see the attached copy of an email sent to us from an ex-cabin crew colleague. Thank you for your continued support, and faith – keep pushing that boulder!
The PCCC Team
www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
[email protected]
Last edited by Tiramisu; 3rd Feb 2010 at 14:47. Reason: Edited to add email from ex-cc colleague not included.
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UNITE agreed to LGW crewing levels a couple of years ago - I think it will be VERY difficult for UNITE to defend why this is not working for LHR.
Spend money on setting up a similar domain with pornography? Nice knowing what your montly £15 is spent on!!!
Spend money on setting up a similar domain with pornography? Nice knowing what your montly £15 is spent on!!!
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A senior BASSA rep spent valuable time and good money buying the same domain name as ours, with the .co.uk suffix. He then spent time and money putting hard core pornography on it
Anyone who finds it will already be looking for the "genuine" site, so they are already a potential PCCC recruit. They are soon going to work out what has happened, and find their way to the real site - so all this is doing is demonstrating to anyone who looks just how desperate - and amoral - BASSA are.
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I also hear BASSA is enjoying a name and shame via text system for those that have volunteered to be Cabin Crew Volunteers. It also includes some personal information about these individuals.
Any sympathy I had for BASSA or their hard core supporters is quite frankly lost given these latest antics.
Time the whole lot of them were dealt with - and I never thought I would mean that quite so sincerely.
Thankfully BA has systems and processes to deal with these sick individuals.
Any sympathy I had for BASSA or their hard core supporters is quite frankly lost given these latest antics.
Time the whole lot of them were dealt with - and I never thought I would mean that quite so sincerely.
Thankfully BA has systems and processes to deal with these sick individuals.
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Name and Shame?
I can see where the "Name" part comes in, but where's the shame?
Those free-thinking staff members volunteering to keep their airline afloat by working alongside their dedicated colleagues should feel proud of themselves!
We customers salute you.
I can see where the "Name" part comes in, but where's the shame?
Those free-thinking staff members volunteering to keep their airline afloat by working alongside their dedicated colleagues should feel proud of themselves!
We customers salute you.
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March roster s are being published tonite instead of last night and instead of the usual full list of crew members the new temporary format will only show the name of the crew member operating that service.
Good on ba for introducing yet more ways for discourage and avoid bulling and harassment.
Good on ba for introducing yet more ways for discourage and avoid bulling and harassment.
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Whois Search - Domain name whois
A quick search would suggest that the domain registrant is one Mark Everard.
I'm not sure how BA management or the BA legal team would view his disgusting behaviour, whoever he is..
A quick search would suggest that the domain registrant is one Mark Everard.
I'm not sure how BA management or the BA legal team would view his disgusting behaviour, whoever he is..
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A question arising from the last few trips...
I have spent the last couple of trips with some extremely good cabin crew. No animosity, no backbiting (within earshot) and the chance on a couple of occasions to chat to the CSD's about the ongoing situation. Something they are only prepared to do within the privacy of the flight deck...understandable I suppose.
The one thing that has come from these intelligent, articulate people is that they are convinced they, and the rest of the crew will lose significant amounts of money. They numbers on board are not an issue. Their sole concern is that BA has made NO assurances in writing that with the imposition of new crewing levels there will follow imposition of changes to other aspects of their agreements that will directly affect the bottom corner of the pay slip.
The question I have for someone in the know is; has BA said anything like this? The assurances BF has made about maintaining pay for current crew (ignoring the trojan horse of New Fleet, which I know can only be mitigated by a monthly payment), are they assurances that are binding or have any time period?
Are these generally very BA minded people, very anti strike but extremely worried, being concerned about something already put to bed by BA but being talked up as the future by BASSA or are these very genuine concerns?
Also I'm truly sorry to hear the depths that some in BASSA have stooped to with regard to the PCCC...truly appalling and a stain on the character of the many decent but clearly poorly led members.
Good luck to all.
Jazzy
The one thing that has come from these intelligent, articulate people is that they are convinced they, and the rest of the crew will lose significant amounts of money. They numbers on board are not an issue. Their sole concern is that BA has made NO assurances in writing that with the imposition of new crewing levels there will follow imposition of changes to other aspects of their agreements that will directly affect the bottom corner of the pay slip.
The question I have for someone in the know is; has BA said anything like this? The assurances BF has made about maintaining pay for current crew (ignoring the trojan horse of New Fleet, which I know can only be mitigated by a monthly payment), are they assurances that are binding or have any time period?
Are these generally very BA minded people, very anti strike but extremely worried, being concerned about something already put to bed by BA but being talked up as the future by BASSA or are these very genuine concerns?
Also I'm truly sorry to hear the depths that some in BASSA have stooped to with regard to the PCCC...truly appalling and a stain on the character of the many decent but clearly poorly led members.
Good luck to all.
Jazzy
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Allegedly he is the chap who likes to fit kitchens...
The BA comrade out in California: £50,000 a year union activist who lives in LA and hasn't flown for a year | Mail Online
The BA comrade out in California: £50,000 a year union activist who lives in LA and hasn't flown for a year | Mail Online
Last edited by Lauderdale; 3rd Feb 2010 at 15:42.
