British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
CH3CH2OH
Keir Hardie
Choice of pseudonym could suggest troll, and professional agitator, troublemaker
Keir Hardie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Choice of pseudonym could suggest troll, and professional agitator, troublemaker
Keir Hardie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Join Date: Oct 2009
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This is the intelligence - or stupidness - of two LHR crew - I overheard them today at CRC when they were discussing the IFCE's savings - One of them suggested that LGW should be closed.
People never stop to amaze - do they?
People never stop to amaze - do they?
Ut Sementem Feeceris
As a totally unconnected outsider - but in the business - I find this debate fascinating.
There seems to be a lot of talk about reducing T&C's but, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't this only apply to new joiners? Existing staff will NOT receive less £ each month but will have to work a bit harder, with the required crew reduction coming through from voluntary redundancies?
Some of the views on here are astonishing. Let me think - keep my current pay or have no job...... in a recession...... with airlines going bust every few weeks...... with our core customers (North Atlantic Financiers) not flying and likely to be leaving the UK in droves due to bonus tax...... the company losing £1.5m per day
Tough decision guys 
I feel sorry for the sane, powerless innocents caught up in the possible consequences of this.
I have to confess to a morbid fascination in waiting to see how this plays out. It's like a good thriller - just unfortunately this is deadly serious.
Happy New Year to most of you and to the others.
A4
There seems to be a lot of talk about reducing T&C's but, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't this only apply to new joiners? Existing staff will NOT receive less £ each month but will have to work a bit harder, with the required crew reduction coming through from voluntary redundancies?
Some of the views on here are astonishing. Let me think - keep my current pay or have no job...... in a recession...... with airlines going bust every few weeks...... with our core customers (North Atlantic Financiers) not flying and likely to be leaving the UK in droves due to bonus tax...... the company losing £1.5m per day
Tough decision guys I feel sorry for the sane, powerless innocents caught up in the possible consequences of this.
I have to confess to a morbid fascination in waiting to see how this plays out. It's like a good thriller - just unfortunately this is deadly serious.
Happy New Year to most of you and
to the others.A4
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A4
Thank you, A4
You've summed it all up nicely.
It really is as simple as that ..... but the die-hards and uninformed just refuse to see it. Unfortunately, they risk EVERYTHING, for ALL OF US. It's very sad, and likely to get sadder in the coming weeks.
I can't claim sanity, can just about recall innocence. As to being powerless ..... watch this space ......
HNY
TorC
You've summed it all up nicely.
It really is as simple as that ..... but the die-hards and uninformed just refuse to see it. Unfortunately, they risk EVERYTHING, for ALL OF US. It's very sad, and likely to get sadder in the coming weeks.
I can't claim sanity, can just about recall innocence. As to being powerless ..... watch this space ......
HNY
TorC
As a totally unconnected outsider - but in the business - I find this debate fascinating.
There seems to be a lot of talk about reducing T&C's but, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't this only apply to new joiners? Existing staff will NOT receive less £ each month but will have to work a bit harder, with the required crew reduction coming through from voluntary redundancies?
Some of the views on here are astonishing. Let me think - keep my current pay or have no job...... in a recession...... with airlines going bust every few weeks...... with our core customers (North Atlantic Financiers) not flying and likely to be leaving the UK in droves due to bonus tax...... the company losing £1.5m per day Tough decision guys
I feel sorry for the sane, powerless innocents caught up in the possible consequences of this.
I have to confess to a morbid fascination in waiting to see how this plays out. It's like a good thriller - just unfortunately this is deadly serious.
Happy New Year to most of you and to the others.
A4
There seems to be a lot of talk about reducing T&C's but, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't this only apply to new joiners? Existing staff will NOT receive less £ each month but will have to work a bit harder, with the required crew reduction coming through from voluntary redundancies?
Some of the views on here are astonishing. Let me think - keep my current pay or have no job...... in a recession...... with airlines going bust every few weeks...... with our core customers (North Atlantic Financiers) not flying and likely to be leaving the UK in droves due to bonus tax...... the company losing £1.5m per day
Tough decision guys I feel sorry for the sane, powerless innocents caught up in the possible consequences of this.
I have to confess to a morbid fascination in waiting to see how this plays out. It's like a good thriller - just unfortunately this is deadly serious.
Happy New Year to most of you and
to the others.A4
Join Date: Nov 2009
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TorC,
Genius!
Just the best quiz I've read! Wouldn't it be great to post that on CF and BASSA forum!
Happy New Year to you and we've got to stop this monster called BASSA before it destroys us and our livelihoods. I'll drink to that tonight!
Happy New Year to all our customers and everyone who posts here. Here's hoping to a 2010 without BASSA but with a New Union!
I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above represent my views and not those of my employer's.
Genius!
Just the best quiz I've read! Wouldn't it be great to post that on CF and BASSA forum!
Happy New Year to you and we've got to stop this monster called BASSA before it destroys us and our livelihoods. I'll drink to that tonight!
Happy New Year to all our customers and everyone who posts here. Here's hoping to a 2010 without BASSA but with a New Union!
I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above represent my views and not those of my employer's.
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This is the intelligence - or stupidness - of two LHR crew - I overheard them today at CRC when they were discussing the IFCE's savings - One of them suggested that LGW should be closed
This just proves the point of how little clue these people have. Especially considering that LGW LH is the only part of the business making money at the moment (and that's been the case for quite a few months now).
Good to see that the "we really do care about you LGW guys" cries were as heartfelt as I suspected.
Gg
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Posted by Keirhardie
Quite frankly after reading every single post in this matter. I very very much hope that there is an even larger majority yes vote in the next ballot, and that the crew strike to the max. If that brings BA down. So be it.
If that were to happen (and it won't), I will be only too delighted to see an awful lot of pilots lose their jobs and terms and conditions etc. I will be doing a jig of happiness. As a 33% crew member with a very loaded partner, oh how i will laugh.
At near to minimum wage as the new terms would make crew, IF THEY SETTLED, they could all walk into another equal job if ba goes under. Therefore having nothing to lose by striking. Pilots on the other hand, not so easy to find another role where a non-professional, non university educated person could earn the amount you do for doing so bloody little. Over paid, over pampered, over opinionated silly little boys club.
Not one of you pilots or poor excuse for crew has shown any knowledge whatsoever of trade unionism. A bunch of cry baby clowns.
So here's to the downfall of WW and poor leadership. OR the death of BA,
Quite frankly after reading every single post in this matter. I very very much hope that there is an even larger majority yes vote in the next ballot, and that the crew strike to the max. If that brings BA down. So be it.
If that were to happen (and it won't), I will be only too delighted to see an awful lot of pilots lose their jobs and terms and conditions etc. I will be doing a jig of happiness. As a 33% crew member with a very loaded partner, oh how i will laugh.
At near to minimum wage as the new terms would make crew, IF THEY SETTLED, they could all walk into another equal job if ba goes under. Therefore having nothing to lose by striking. Pilots on the other hand, not so easy to find another role where a non-professional, non university educated person could earn the amount you do for doing so bloody little. Over paid, over pampered, over opinionated silly little boys club.
Not one of you pilots or poor excuse for crew has shown any knowledge whatsoever of trade unionism. A bunch of cry baby clowns.
So here's to the downfall of WW and poor leadership. OR the death of BA,
I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above represent my views and not those of my employer's.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 31st Dec 2009 at 21:22.
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TorC that is hilarious! 
Imagine posting that on CF or BASSA!!! Imagine their faces!
Winstonsmith - that is the mentality of the diehard BASSA 100% clan - stuff LGW!! Doesn't matter that SFG crew will be out of a job as long as they are untouched with their agreements which are well above market rate!! Just as they did when SFG was introduced and from what I understand all the other bases - as long as LHR is untouched.
Oh and they use campaigns for LGW to get them to vote Yes! Such as ''you will never be able to transfer to LHR anymore'' and ''You agreed to the changes at LGW, you must vote Yes to protect LHR though so you have an option to transfer to LHR on current t&c's in the future'' It is actually hilarious - using poor excuses to win votes! I hope most of my colleagues who work a few miles away on the M25 actually see through this!!
Imagine posting that on CF or BASSA!!! Imagine their faces!Winstonsmith - that is the mentality of the diehard BASSA 100% clan - stuff LGW!! Doesn't matter that SFG crew will be out of a job as long as they are untouched with their agreements which are well above market rate!! Just as they did when SFG was introduced and from what I understand all the other bases - as long as LHR is untouched.
Oh and they use campaigns for LGW to get them to vote Yes! Such as ''you will never be able to transfer to LHR anymore'' and ''You agreed to the changes at LGW, you must vote Yes to protect LHR though so you have an option to transfer to LHR on current t&c's in the future'' It is actually hilarious - using poor excuses to win votes! I hope most of my colleagues who work a few miles away on the M25 actually see through this!!
Join Date: Oct 2009
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No - it's sickening - and this is what BASSA has done to every single other crew base all over UK to protect LHR - I don't doubt for a second that they would sacrify LGW - and after that LHR EF - to save LHR WW.
the lunatic fringe
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WW has been planning and waiting patiently for this strike. BA has the cash reserves to fight BASSA and the striking cabin crew into the ground.
A strike will not drive BA into bankruptcy.
For BASSA read NUM.
A strike will not drive BA into bankruptcy.
For BASSA read NUM.
I Have Control
Join Date: May 2004
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Lost business
HNY you BA die-hards. I have just booked 2 business class tickets for myself in January, routing via ZRH, where I would have ordinarily booked BA. As a pilot with another company, I have good experience of the business, and cannot now risk my own money on a volatile operation like BA. I feel sorry for all those against industrial action, pilots included, but am no longer willing to travel with you.
I wonder how many others feel the same way.
I wonder how many others feel the same way.
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Sorry I'm absolutely sick of this. I know it's thread creep but can someone post my reply on the BASSA forum wrt pilots.
In the US, a pilot's ATP licence is regarded as a degree. In the UK, the amount of tuition time to get a CPL exccedds that for a degree (i.e. no holidays, no "reading" weeks etc). An Air Transport pilot used to be regarded at the same level as Doctors, Accountants, Architects etc but neve rat the same level as Cabin Crew, Firemen, Ambulance Drivers etc. There is a huge difference so please could all the cabin crew get over it. Just because we work in the same environment does not mean we should be rewarded the same.
I spend a lot of time encouraging CC to join us on the flight desk for departure, and what do they do? Run in just before we enter the runway for takeoff. Similarly, for a landing they turn up around 5000' when being vectored onto the ILS when all the preparation is complete.
Neither of the above can give any idea of what pilots do and so CC have no right to suggest that we do nothing. If you want to know what we do then come into the flight when the briefing is explaining MSAs, diversions, fuel calculations etc. Ask to watch a sim detail with multiple failures and the prospect of imminent death!
CC most of you have no idea what pilots do so stop discussing it as if you do. On occasion we position in the cabin and see your job - also I was CC so I know exactly what your job entails. It has no comparison.
It's like comparing a receptioninst with an accountant. I know it sounds harsh but that is the reality from someone who has done both jobs.
Anyway back to the real topic which is about cabin crew Ts & Cs (not related to pilots, catering, accounts, travel agents or many other professions who operate in the same industry).
In the US, a pilot's ATP licence is regarded as a degree. In the UK, the amount of tuition time to get a CPL exccedds that for a degree (i.e. no holidays, no "reading" weeks etc). An Air Transport pilot used to be regarded at the same level as Doctors, Accountants, Architects etc but neve rat the same level as Cabin Crew, Firemen, Ambulance Drivers etc. There is a huge difference so please could all the cabin crew get over it. Just because we work in the same environment does not mean we should be rewarded the same.
I spend a lot of time encouraging CC to join us on the flight desk for departure, and what do they do? Run in just before we enter the runway for takeoff. Similarly, for a landing they turn up around 5000' when being vectored onto the ILS when all the preparation is complete.
Neither of the above can give any idea of what pilots do and so CC have no right to suggest that we do nothing. If you want to know what we do then come into the flight when the briefing is explaining MSAs, diversions, fuel calculations etc. Ask to watch a sim detail with multiple failures and the prospect of imminent death!
CC most of you have no idea what pilots do so stop discussing it as if you do. On occasion we position in the cabin and see your job - also I was CC so I know exactly what your job entails. It has no comparison.
It's like comparing a receptioninst with an accountant. I know it sounds harsh but that is the reality from someone who has done both jobs.
Anyway back to the real topic which is about cabin crew Ts & Cs (not related to pilots, catering, accounts, travel agents or many other professions who operate in the same industry).
Last edited by Marty-Party; 1st Jan 2010 at 08:45.
Keirhardie - what a sick individual, I'm sorry to even admit that I even took that short amount of my time to react. Goodbye.
Marty-Party - Good points, also ask what other professions demand, with the force of law, that their members effectively sit their Final Exams every 6 months throughout their entire career ? Doctors ? Lawyers ? Architects ? Name one.
Cabin Crew also have their Annual SEP's and checks to pass, how many idiots do you have to deal with in every day life who don't know their own jobs - and can't be sacked !!
Crew, both pilots and cabin crew, are criticised by the public for the time they apparently spend at home. No one sees you reporting for service at 02.00 to keep the travelling public moving around the World.
I was often 'envied' for the time off I 'enjoyed' - which in good times might equate to about the same time at home as away, averaged over a long period. I asked my neighbour what time he went to work ? About 8.00 a.m - and what time did he get home ? around 6.00 pm Christ ! that isn't even half a day ! and he only did it for 5 days then got 2 complete days off ! He was ' at home' a minimum of 4 1/2 days out of every week - how much time to you get 'at home ' ? Work it out.
If the C.C. or in the past, the Public, see you sat on the flight deck in an atmosphere of apparent calm and inactivity - they should be VERY grateful, if they walk in and see you performing like a one-armed paperhanger - which to the ignorant is a measure of productivity - then they should be VERY afraid, 'cos things have gone badly wrong, and only YOU can save them with your professionalism. Ask the pax. on the BA 38, or the ones that, sadly, got their feet a bit damp in the Hudson River.
Best of luck.
Marty-Party - Good points, also ask what other professions demand, with the force of law, that their members effectively sit their Final Exams every 6 months throughout their entire career ? Doctors ? Lawyers ? Architects ? Name one.
Cabin Crew also have their Annual SEP's and checks to pass, how many idiots do you have to deal with in every day life who don't know their own jobs - and can't be sacked !!
Crew, both pilots and cabin crew, are criticised by the public for the time they apparently spend at home. No one sees you reporting for service at 02.00 to keep the travelling public moving around the World.
I was often 'envied' for the time off I 'enjoyed' - which in good times might equate to about the same time at home as away, averaged over a long period. I asked my neighbour what time he went to work ? About 8.00 a.m - and what time did he get home ? around 6.00 pm Christ ! that isn't even half a day ! and he only did it for 5 days then got 2 complete days off ! He was ' at home' a minimum of 4 1/2 days out of every week - how much time to you get 'at home ' ? Work it out.
If the C.C. or in the past, the Public, see you sat on the flight deck in an atmosphere of apparent calm and inactivity - they should be VERY grateful, if they walk in and see you performing like a one-armed paperhanger - which to the ignorant is a measure of productivity - then they should be VERY afraid, 'cos things have gone badly wrong, and only YOU can save them with your professionalism. Ask the pax. on the BA 38, or the ones that, sadly, got their feet a bit damp in the Hudson River.
Best of luck.
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It probably sounds extremely selfish to say that I would rather see the company go bankrupt instead of letting WW and BF having their way through.
Marty-Party
In the US, pilots APTL licence is regarded as a degree. In the UK, the amount of tuition time to get a CPL exccedds that for a degree (i.e. no holidays, no "reading" weekes etc). Am Air Transport pilot used to be regarded at the same level as Doctors, Accountants, Architects etc but neverat the same level as Cabin Crew, Firemen, Ambulance Drivers etc. There is a huge difference so please could all the cabin crew get over it
Secondly those who still feel the need to push the "I'm Cabin crew and I have a Degree" line might be surprised at the percentage of pilots in BA who have got first degrees. As an example probably around 50% of the ex-Forces "dinosaurs" recruited by BA in the late 80's and early 90's have a degree...and many of them earned them in the days before the University system was diluted by reforms of the last 10 -20 years.
Last edited by wiggy; 1st Jan 2010 at 08:51.
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A non-contentious [I hope] question. Amidst all of this, do I understand that BASSA will be balloting again for IA in about 6 weeks? i.e. mid-Feb?
On that assumption, is there any indication of when IA might be called? Might it be Easter, to maximise damage to BA and the paying pax? Easter is 4 Apr this year, I believe.
I'm being selfish, as I'm already ticketed with BA outbound from UK in late Apr. It's not too late to change my plans at this stage.
On that assumption, is there any indication of when IA might be called? Might it be Easter, to maximise damage to BA and the paying pax? Easter is 4 Apr this year, I believe.
I'm being selfish, as I'm already ticketed with BA outbound from UK in late Apr. It's not too late to change my plans at this stage.