British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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You quite clearly have no understanding of how to operate a successful online business - you automate as many processes as possible - you then buy an iPhone and no matter where you are in the world you can operate your business - why on earth would I need staff? They are such a pain in the arse aren't they?
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Happy 2010
Hey guys!
You are all still at it? Wow. Strange suggestion for 2010: put this discussion to bed and lets all go on with our lives.
I will make it my resolution. That and buy that iPhone. They can be bought simlock free here in Aussie.
Best wishes for '10. That we may all have a job!
Regards,
Henk
You are all still at it? Wow. Strange suggestion for 2010: put this discussion to bed and lets all go on with our lives.
I will make it my resolution. That and buy that iPhone. They can be bought simlock free here in Aussie.
Best wishes for '10. That we may all have a job!
Regards,
Henk
Sorry,a bit late on the Hamster wheel tonight..MissM, FWIW
" It would be the same if I said that we only need one pilot because aircraft are so modern these days that they can take off and land on their own"
You could say that but it's not true...have you been on a Flight Deck and talked to the pilots about operating an aircraft recently?
" It would be the same if I said that we only need one pilot because aircraft are so modern these days that they can take off and land on their own"
You could say that but it's not true...have you been on a Flight Deck and talked to the pilots about operating an aircraft recently?
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OMG! My honest opinion, (it's harsh but oh well!) all of my colleagues who are prepared to strike until this company goes bust - YOU DESERVE TO BE SACKED!!! How dare you, because of your selfish greed rather thousands of people crew and other departments out of a job and an airline I and many people who are proud to work go bust, YOU may have nothing to lose (or so you think!) but I and the majority of my colleagues would!!
That attitude is seriously appalling! Spare a thought of the staff at other airlines gone bust - and other companies from other industries. Please, get a LARGE dose of reality before it's too late!!
ALSO A lurker, sould like to stick up for Tiramisu his/her posts have been constructive, articluate and sensible. He/she has not slaughtered his/her collegues on here, just has stated his/her opinion about what this thread is about - the negotiations, discussions and our ''Union''.
That attitude is seriously appalling! Spare a thought of the staff at other airlines gone bust - and other companies from other industries. Please, get a LARGE dose of reality before it's too late!!
ALSO A lurker, sould like to stick up for Tiramisu his/her posts have been constructive, articluate and sensible. He/she has not slaughtered his/her collegues on here, just has stated his/her opinion about what this thread is about - the negotiations, discussions and our ''Union''.
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Slidebustle,
They really are serious about striking, it's so sad.
Either way BASSA will loose. If UNITE wins the court case in February and Willie Walsh has to re-instate the old crewing levels, New Crew will have to be employed on New Fleet. If BA win, they'll still be employing New Crew on to New Fleet. Why can't they see that. It's best to negotiate a sensible and reasonable solution with BA for all of us before it's too late.
I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above are my views and not those of my employer's.
They really are serious about striking, it's so sad.
Either way BASSA will loose. If UNITE wins the court case in February and Willie Walsh has to re-instate the old crewing levels, New Crew will have to be employed on New Fleet. If BA win, they'll still be employing New Crew on to New Fleet. Why can't they see that. It's best to negotiate a sensible and reasonable solution with BA for all of us before it's too late.
I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above are my views and not those of my employer's.
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I know it's about product which is not what this strike is about but can I say
A Lurker, just read your post calling us a ''second rate airline'' - Get real please!! Plus also don't you think pax who may read that may think oh God won't fly BA as they are second rate.
OK, the product has changed, in some areas not for the better. After abit of research, other full service carriers have too. Virgin for example on JFK/EWR/BOS etc flights no longer serve a afternoon tea before landing in Economy/Premium - guess what they get??? A cookie or cereal bar!! We still serve sandwiches no? Granted we no longer have deli boxes on longhaul flights under 10 hours but at least pax still get a sandwich!
SAS airlines on shorthaul flights, along with bmi, Aer Lingus have BOB down the back. We have complimentary bar. OK, so birdseed and a cookie might not be a product I am particularly ''proud'' of serving, I do not think we are second rate. On longer flights pax still get a sandiwich and Band 4 hot meal.
By no means is our product perfect!!!! We still in some areas are infrerior. But if you compare to other airlines we are probably superior. American carriers are infrerior from what I have seen. OK Singapore airlines et al may actually be the most innovative but does it make us the worst.
IF we make the savings now, BA can get back into profit and invest!! How fab is that!! They have a new First seat in CRC which looks rather nice and a big improvement - however they have to make savings to get into profit first! So if you were so concerned about service then you would be looking to save costs so we can move forward.
Have you read the investors day presentation earlier this year? They stated they want to improve WT and WTP but obviously they can only do that if we get into profit. They had some artists impressions and it looked rather impressive!
Some of these cutbacks are not great, and there are areas of our catering/product that can be improved (please put pretzels back on in CE!!!) but savings need to be made to invest. Plus, we still offer certain services that are superior, it's just the whole market has changed, other airlines have made changes aswell! Having a great attitude to your work can be enough to win customers, something some BASSA hardliners find a hard grasp to ''no we can't do hot towels in WTP as BASSA says we need a 16th crew member''
Give me strength!
Anyway this ballot isn't about our product!
OK, the product has changed, in some areas not for the better. After abit of research, other full service carriers have too. Virgin for example on JFK/EWR/BOS etc flights no longer serve a afternoon tea before landing in Economy/Premium - guess what they get??? A cookie or cereal bar!! We still serve sandwiches no? Granted we no longer have deli boxes on longhaul flights under 10 hours but at least pax still get a sandwich!
SAS airlines on shorthaul flights, along with bmi, Aer Lingus have BOB down the back. We have complimentary bar. OK, so birdseed and a cookie might not be a product I am particularly ''proud'' of serving, I do not think we are second rate. On longer flights pax still get a sandiwich and Band 4 hot meal.
By no means is our product perfect!!!! We still in some areas are infrerior. But if you compare to other airlines we are probably superior. American carriers are infrerior from what I have seen. OK Singapore airlines et al may actually be the most innovative but does it make us the worst.
IF we make the savings now, BA can get back into profit and invest!! How fab is that!! They have a new First seat in CRC which looks rather nice and a big improvement - however they have to make savings to get into profit first! So if you were so concerned about service then you would be looking to save costs so we can move forward.
Have you read the investors day presentation earlier this year? They stated they want to improve WT and WTP but obviously they can only do that if we get into profit. They had some artists impressions and it looked rather impressive!
Some of these cutbacks are not great, and there are areas of our catering/product that can be improved (please put pretzels back on in CE!!!) but savings need to be made to invest. Plus, we still offer certain services that are superior, it's just the whole market has changed, other airlines have made changes aswell! Having a great attitude to your work can be enough to win customers, something some BASSA hardliners find a hard grasp to ''no we can't do hot towels in WTP as BASSA says we need a 16th crew member''
Give me strength!
Anyway this ballot isn't about our product!
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Yes, I suppose that A lurker is right, let's not turn us into the opposite, that is one great thing about this forum... Both sides can debate in anoymosity. I disagree with BASSA and am passionate about my opinions and beliefs, but just debate the reason why you think the way you do and do accept why you feel your reasons.
I am passionate about my opinion, hence why I posted my anger filled post earlier. I do truly despair at these people who want to strike and will do so until the airline shuts! What???
I am passionate about my opinion, hence why I posted my anger filled post earlier. I do truly despair at these people who want to strike and will do so until the airline shuts! What???
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I personally don't feel there's any bullying on this thread. There are various opinions, some which seem more "right" than others.
Everyone is welcome to debate here, but it would be a lot easier to have a sensible debate if people could stick to facts and not rhetoric.
Name-calling won't get anyone far, although it's frustrating to read some posts.
What it all boils down to, is that most people seem to understand that as a company, BA need to cut costs to be able to survive. Yes, we have different opinions as to how this should go about.
I do feel that there are people who work for BA who shouldn't be. They might not enjoy it anymore, might not feel valued or a whole bunch of other reasons. I've always lived by the rule that if you wake up each morning and think "oh,
, I've got to go to work today", then it's time to move on. Not for anyone else but yourself. You're the person who lives your life, and you're the person that can make you happy. When one isn't happy with work/life/home/relationships/etc, one tends to send out vibes where people can feel it too.
For the people who are happy in their job, at the moment, all you (we) can do, is to do it to the best of our abilities. Go the extra mile, enjoy yourself, have a giggle, smile and strive to be the best. I know I sound hopeful saying this, but maybe, just maybe, it will "rub off" on others. I have met plenty of people at work who inspired me to do better, whether at work or in my private life.
Gg
Everyone is welcome to debate here, but it would be a lot easier to have a sensible debate if people could stick to facts and not rhetoric.
Name-calling won't get anyone far, although it's frustrating to read some posts.
What it all boils down to, is that most people seem to understand that as a company, BA need to cut costs to be able to survive. Yes, we have different opinions as to how this should go about.
I do feel that there are people who work for BA who shouldn't be. They might not enjoy it anymore, might not feel valued or a whole bunch of other reasons. I've always lived by the rule that if you wake up each morning and think "oh,
, I've got to go to work today", then it's time to move on. Not for anyone else but yourself. You're the person who lives your life, and you're the person that can make you happy. When one isn't happy with work/life/home/relationships/etc, one tends to send out vibes where people can feel it too. For the people who are happy in their job, at the moment, all you (we) can do, is to do it to the best of our abilities. Go the extra mile, enjoy yourself, have a giggle, smile and strive to be the best. I know I sound hopeful saying this, but maybe, just maybe, it will "rub off" on others. I have met plenty of people at work who inspired me to do better, whether at work or in my private life.
Gg
Last edited by Glamgirl; 31st Dec 2009 at 00:38. Reason: typo
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Anyway... moving on... guys on the other side how do you think BA should cut costs??? Do you want crew numbers put back on....... but get rid of CAT payments? Or how about put the 16th crew member on the 747 and you can have hours of breaks and bunk rest.... just get rid of your box payments??
Seriously, this union's politics is so detrimental to us all and you are all like lambs to the slaughter. I have friends voting Yes... they are not particularly militant just they have bought into the ''BA will shaft us and we will be on 30% less pay'' rethoric from BASSA. Sadly... But, we have no time for it, solutions and negotiations need to be made AND FAST!
The Union have missed oppurtunities.... The Fixed Monthly payment could have been negotiated to have been reasonable and most importantly contractual and regularly reviews - even better incorporated into our basics to protect current crew who don't want to be on New Fleet. A ratio of work to be transferred over could have been negotiated to ensure an equal amount of BOX 3,4 trips, stateside trips, shorthaul 3 day 8 sectors and shorthaul ''light refreshment'' trips go over to New Fleet to ensure a fair distribution of work. Plus, an agreement that New Fleet will only grow based on when there is a shortage of crew and growth - NOT routes moving to New Fleet first then crew being put on standby.
Did that happen? NO don't be silly - BASSA is our union!! They saw New Fleet as a threat. It could be a threat, but all of the above is what Bill considered to take that threat away - so we current crew are protected. The conditions on New Fleet would probably still be better than many airlines for any newbies to the airline and any current crew who wanst to go over for personal reasons for promotion or part trime etc can.... Although with our union just like the crew on the LCY-JFK route, and the Pursers on WW working up as CSDs would probably be considered ''scabs''.
New Fleet could even go away altogether, BA offered a proposal... sure on EF and WW we would make sacrafices and new crew and current crew going for promotion would have to be on new T&Cs (the union didn't mind that but didn't want to change anything on their own fleets) Unite's own counter proposal DID NOT save enough end of! Most of it was temporary and some of it was very little. Alot of it disadvantaged many of us, particularly Main Crew!! But oh yeah, doesn't really affect most of the reps does it?
So.... guys like I've said before.... you constantly say that you are willing to change but it must be negotiated. So which would you be able to negotiate. As you seem to say this but hate any form of change!!
Seriously, this union's politics is so detrimental to us all and you are all like lambs to the slaughter. I have friends voting Yes... they are not particularly militant just they have bought into the ''BA will shaft us and we will be on 30% less pay'' rethoric from BASSA. Sadly... But, we have no time for it, solutions and negotiations need to be made AND FAST!
The Union have missed oppurtunities.... The Fixed Monthly payment could have been negotiated to have been reasonable and most importantly contractual and regularly reviews - even better incorporated into our basics to protect current crew who don't want to be on New Fleet. A ratio of work to be transferred over could have been negotiated to ensure an equal amount of BOX 3,4 trips, stateside trips, shorthaul 3 day 8 sectors and shorthaul ''light refreshment'' trips go over to New Fleet to ensure a fair distribution of work. Plus, an agreement that New Fleet will only grow based on when there is a shortage of crew and growth - NOT routes moving to New Fleet first then crew being put on standby.
Did that happen? NO don't be silly - BASSA is our union!! They saw New Fleet as a threat. It could be a threat, but all of the above is what Bill considered to take that threat away - so we current crew are protected. The conditions on New Fleet would probably still be better than many airlines for any newbies to the airline and any current crew who wanst to go over for personal reasons for promotion or part trime etc can.... Although with our union just like the crew on the LCY-JFK route, and the Pursers on WW working up as CSDs would probably be considered ''scabs''.
New Fleet could even go away altogether, BA offered a proposal... sure on EF and WW we would make sacrafices and new crew and current crew going for promotion would have to be on new T&Cs (the union didn't mind that but didn't want to change anything on their own fleets) Unite's own counter proposal DID NOT save enough end of! Most of it was temporary and some of it was very little. Alot of it disadvantaged many of us, particularly Main Crew!! But oh yeah, doesn't really affect most of the reps does it?
So.... guys like I've said before.... you constantly say that you are willing to change but it must be negotiated. So which would you be able to negotiate. As you seem to say this but hate any form of change!!
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George Galloway
YouTube - George Galloway speaks to anti-trade union man
Anyone else seen this?? This is WHY lots of the hardliners are saying George Galloway is a ''hero'' - don't make me laugh, seriously!!
To be fair on George, he is obviously thinking of us and has empathy with cabin crew, we deserve to be treated well etc etc... he obviously has that attitude, but evidently he does not know that our Union won't react to any change in a recession. That is the difference. And the other guy has a valid point regarding unions bringing down companies and running them - it needs to stop. BA does not want to make us Ryanair, just work us harder and new recruits on market rate plus 10% (us current crew we keep our pay how fair is that!!)
Unfortunately they think everyone is so on our side now he has said this. Has George Galloway ever had credibility, especially with that ''purring event'' on Celebrity Big Brother!!!
Anyone else seen this?? This is WHY lots of the hardliners are saying George Galloway is a ''hero'' - don't make me laugh, seriously!!
To be fair on George, he is obviously thinking of us and has empathy with cabin crew, we deserve to be treated well etc etc... he obviously has that attitude, but evidently he does not know that our Union won't react to any change in a recession. That is the difference. And the other guy has a valid point regarding unions bringing down companies and running them - it needs to stop. BA does not want to make us Ryanair, just work us harder and new recruits on market rate plus 10% (us current crew we keep our pay how fair is that!!)
Unfortunately they think everyone is so on our side now he has said this. Has George Galloway ever had credibility, especially with that ''purring event'' on Celebrity Big Brother!!!
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It's ironic how A Lurker and others talk about how bad the airline is without ever considering their role in it. A Lurker, you in particular come across as someone who uses BA as an easy source of income to support your businesses.
Virtually ever person I have spoken to in the last three months (and I'm in Asia at the moment) doesn't fly BA any more.
The reason in EVERY case?
"The cabin crew treat you like you're an inconvenience" or words to that effect.
Whether our BASSA colleagues like to hear the truth or not, it's about time they started realising just how little BA can afford to put up with their crap any more, and what a millstone they are around the neck of the company.
I feel desperately sorry for those on here that still take pride in their work and want to help the airline stay afloat.
I can only hope that if that witless union decide to ballot again that people realise from the last time that they are being led like lambs to the slaughter and vote no.
Otherwise all I can see is that there will be many feather spitting unemployed old BASSA slubberdegullions, and some very sad, and badly misled other cabin crew signing on for benefits - with a CV that employers wouldn't touch with a bargepole, even if they didn't vote for the stupid Christmas strike.
In the vain hope that CC start to see how badly they have been represented by the BASSA Stasi, I wish you all a very peaceful and Happy New Year.
Virtually ever person I have spoken to in the last three months (and I'm in Asia at the moment) doesn't fly BA any more.
The reason in EVERY case?
"The cabin crew treat you like you're an inconvenience" or words to that effect.
Whether our BASSA colleagues like to hear the truth or not, it's about time they started realising just how little BA can afford to put up with their crap any more, and what a millstone they are around the neck of the company.
I feel desperately sorry for those on here that still take pride in their work and want to help the airline stay afloat.
I can only hope that if that witless union decide to ballot again that people realise from the last time that they are being led like lambs to the slaughter and vote no.
Otherwise all I can see is that there will be many feather spitting unemployed old BASSA slubberdegullions, and some very sad, and badly misled other cabin crew signing on for benefits - with a CV that employers wouldn't touch with a bargepole, even if they didn't vote for the stupid Christmas strike.
In the vain hope that CC start to see how badly they have been represented by the BASSA Stasi, I wish you all a very peaceful and Happy New Year.
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Potential PAX?
Hey, girls, and boys -
Should I recommend BA to my son who is nervous of flying anyhow since 9/11, and needs to come to the UK to see his father before the old man passes on, (they give him 3 months). ( Oh, we've been divorced for 20 years, so that's why I'm not too upset - but now under the circumstances on friendly terms again).
He wants to fly direct from Philadelphia to Heathrow. And he doesn't trust French built aircraft.
I told him that BA aircrew were tops. But I also mentioned that CC had been threatening to go on strike. Is it still on or not? should he travel BA or not?
Should I recommend BA to my son who is nervous of flying anyhow since 9/11, and needs to come to the UK to see his father before the old man passes on, (they give him 3 months). ( Oh, we've been divorced for 20 years, so that's why I'm not too upset - but now under the circumstances on friendly terms again).
He wants to fly direct from Philadelphia to Heathrow. And he doesn't trust French built aircraft.
I told him that BA aircrew were tops. But I also mentioned that CC had been threatening to go on strike. Is it still on or not? should he travel BA or not?
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It's still all about power. Past management have swung the lead and given BASSA too much power. Now they want to take it away and, predictably, BASSA don't like it.
This could turn out to be very messy indeed as it can be seen from certain postings that there are some very entrenched attitudes within our cc.
This could turn out to be very messy indeed as it can be seen from certain postings that there are some very entrenched attitudes within our cc.
How would you feel if somebody was trying to take your power away from you?
Alternatively, maybe we did have it taken away (incorrectly - the law hasn't changed) and steps are being taken to get it back.
Last edited by Human Factor; 31st Dec 2009 at 09:01.
Desertia
"slubberdegullions"..
I thought they were something out of a Harry Potter story, but apparently not...
Anyhow, great word - must try to fit it into one of my PA's
............
Have a good New Year.
I thought they were something out of a Harry Potter story, but apparently not...
Anyhow, great word - must try to fit it into one of my PA's
............Have a good New Year.
Imposition
Just read an interim report on the KLM codeshare AMS- DTW hi-jack incident.
It shows the cost base BA is competing with in the longhaul market, and shows up the futility of the BASSA argument in Court that loss of a crewmember or two, somehow affects safety.
A330 aircraft, business/economy layout, 270 pax 8 cabin crew. Coped with the situation very well, although pax had the hi-jacker 'done and dusted' before the cabin crew were involved.
It shows the cost base BA is competing with in the longhaul market, and shows up the futility of the BASSA argument in Court that loss of a crewmember or two, somehow affects safety.
A330 aircraft, business/economy layout, 270 pax 8 cabin crew. Coped with the situation very well, although pax had the hi-jacker 'done and dusted' before the cabin crew were involved.
Last edited by cessnapete; 31st Dec 2009 at 12:53.
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@ Mary, Post #891 ... sorry you got ignored in the fracas!!
1. Airbus is not French, only parts of it. And it is possibly the most successful modern airliner.
2. BA cockpit crew are, I believe, about as good as you get.
3. Some BA cabin crew are hell-bent on causing disruption to the travelling public. Your pre-booked flight may, or may not, happen.
4. US Airways appears to be your other direct option from PHL, and they use Airbus 330 on that route.
5. US Airways customer reviews here ... US Airways Reviews and US Airways Passenger opinions about US Airways product and US Airways service standards
6. Have you considered sailing with Cunard?
Should I recommend BA to my son who is nervous of flying anyhow since 9/11 ...
He wants to fly direct from Philadelphia to Heathrow. And he doesn't trust French built aircraft.
I told him that BA aircrew were tops. But I also mentioned that CC had been threatening to go on strike. Is it still on or not? should he travel BA or not?
He wants to fly direct from Philadelphia to Heathrow. And he doesn't trust French built aircraft.
I told him that BA aircrew were tops. But I also mentioned that CC had been threatening to go on strike. Is it still on or not? should he travel BA or not?
2. BA cockpit crew are, I believe, about as good as you get.
3. Some BA cabin crew are hell-bent on causing disruption to the travelling public. Your pre-booked flight may, or may not, happen.
4. US Airways appears to be your other direct option from PHL, and they use Airbus 330 on that route.
5. US Airways customer reviews here ... US Airways Reviews and US Airways Passenger opinions about US Airways product and US Airways service standards
6. Have you considered sailing with Cunard?
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I think there referring to getting 350 people out of a burning 747, safely with half the passengers carrying duty free, hand baggage and laptops.
If you look at the Manchester Airtours 737 aborted take-off ,fire and subsequent evacuation you'll see just what well trained cabin crew can do for you in a bad situation-on that tragic day they were worth every penny.
If you look at the Manchester Airtours 737 aborted take-off ,fire and subsequent evacuation you'll see just what well trained cabin crew can do for you in a bad situation-on that tragic day they were worth every penny.