British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Thanks to the "good CC" ... I do appreciate those posts. 
However, it will take time for the damage to be undone, as you recognise. Until BA gets a grip of the Unions, and is able to offer a guaranteed service [subject to the inevitable and understood factors of Wx and ac u/s], we would be stupid to invest ££££ in a product that may, or may not, be delivered.
I know the CC out there with brains will understand that ... I just dribble on in the faint hope that the others will understand what is actually happening as a result of this threat of IA. It may be "grand gesture" for some, perhaps, but this is potentially the final nail in the coffin for a company already in serious fiscal over-stretch. And all because the employer wants the CSD to do a bit more work? It would be risible if it wasn't so tragic.
However, it will take time for the damage to be undone, as you recognise. Until BA gets a grip of the Unions, and is able to offer a guaranteed service [subject to the inevitable and understood factors of Wx and ac u/s], we would be stupid to invest ££££ in a product that may, or may not, be delivered.
I know the CC out there with brains will understand that ... I just dribble on in the faint hope that the others will understand what is actually happening as a result of this threat of IA. It may be "grand gesture" for some, perhaps, but this is potentially the final nail in the coffin for a company already in serious fiscal over-stretch. And all because the employer wants the CSD to do a bit more work? It would be risible if it wasn't so tragic.
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Thanks
As a frequent flyer perfectly capable of making my own cup of tea, I must say I find the prospect of flying BA again with six or eight pilots as crew - without any suicidal-tendency CC - rather comforting... 
iwalkedaway
iwalkedaway
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The results so far are out of 860 members (ie.a minority!) who voted:
1-3 days - 36 votes (4.2%)
4-6 days - 61 votes (7.1%)
7-9 days - 142 votes (16.5%)
10-12 days - 509 votes (59.2%)
more than 12 - 112 votes (13.0%)
1-3 days - 36 votes (4.2%)
4-6 days - 61 votes (7.1%)
7-9 days - 142 votes (16.5%)
10-12 days - 509 votes (59.2%)
more than 12 - 112 votes (13.0%)
Do not confuse an internet poll with "polling". They are significantly different.
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@ human factor ... Indeed - according to this thread, BA's only 2 pax [myself and Mr Salmon] won't be flying with BA any more, so the company can stop operating!! 
The Internet is a different reality ... amusing at times, informative as well, but ... strange.
The Internet is a different reality ... amusing at times, informative as well, but ... strange.
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Happy New Year from BASSA
BASSA > Latest News
2010 - What will it hold for you? Jan 3rd, 2010 by admin
As the old year leaves us and a new one begins, for most people it is a time for reflection on the past and hopefully, optimism for the future.
It is a time of resolutions; some last, some don’t! It is a time for wishing that our friends, family and loved-ones lives will be better in the year ahead.
In some ways we begin anew, with a clean slate and a renewed enthusiasm. Though in reality it is only a date on a calendar and just another day, in our minds it is so much more; it gives us the chance to draw a veil over the past and to start over again - and as crew, that’s exactly what we need to do.
What will the year head hold? Will it be happy, peaceful and prosperous?
The answer to that will largely rest with you; more than in any other year, our future will be shaped permanently and you will be the people that shape it.
We all experienced an emotional and difficult end to 2009, it is often said “that what does not kill you, only makes you stronger” and more than ever we now need to prove that to be true and not just a cliche.
After the Christmas season and with a New Year beginning, it’s very easy to want to move on; it’s only human nature to want to want to put things behind us and forget about them, to in effect “get on with our lives” but we cannot afford to do that; you cannot afford to do that.
The reasons why we reluctantly had to call for industrial action were important then and are more so now.
We were given a very real glimpse of our airlines’ true feelings towards cabin crew and the value that they place on your reputation and standing and indeed our airlines as a whole - and it wasn’t pleasant for anybody.
Nothing has changed.
2010 will be what we make it: will we still have the courage to stand up for what we know is fair and just, or do we no longer have the strength of character to do what we know is right but what will nonetheless require courage to face.
Nobody ever said this would be easy and it isn’t, but that does not make it any less right. The public will never love the fact that they could be inconvenienced if we take strike action, and it would be unrealistic to expect them to do so, but this action is about you and looking after your future.
The public don’t and won’t care one iota whether you can pay a mortgage at the end of 2010 or not, and neither will the press, but you will. So we are going to have to remain strong and focused and work hard to deliver an even stronger message to our board: “leave us alone and let us get on with doing our job”. That’s what we do well, that’s what we want to do, that’s what makes British Airways what it is and that will eventually make the public very happy with us once again.
In one of the more reasoned comments on the dispute, George Galloway said in a radio interview that it was “ quite ludicrous to blame the state of an airline on the people who serve you a tomato juice; the blame must lie with the people that run it”.
The fact that a dangerous and farcical interpretation of the law has delayed the situation into this New Year is something that Mr. Walsh should have considered.
Bullish language, threats, intransigence and the timing of their impositions led to only one course of action - a dispute over Christmas, and a long one; their threats gave no other choice.
Was the twelve days a surprise to most people? Absolutely. That was the point.
It was designed to have shock value, and it did; it was designed to get peoples’ attention, and it did.
Was it a little unnerving? Of course it was, but the point of the action was not to be on strike for twelve days, but to create a situation big enough that it could not be ignored and for negotiation to be recognised as the only sensible way forward.
Some people quite rightly asked, why Christmas? Was twelve days necessary?
Let us be absolutely and unequivocally clear - yes.
If it could have been less, it would have been but we did not have that luxury. Nobody - and we mean, nobody - wants to go on strike. It is always a last resort; we just did not have any other options. This was a management that had planned and calculated for over a year exactly when to impose their changes. They knew the impact it would have on both you and our customers, yet they were the ones who cynically chose to bring any potential dispute to a head directly over the Christmas season, they had prepared for a short strike and had the resources to withstand it; they counted wrong.
This union does not want a strike; it simply wants your agreements honoured, any cuts to be fair and proportionate, and a future that you can be sure of; industrial action will only ever be used to secure those aims.
Therefore, it simply was not an option to have anything less; a relatively easy three-day stoppage over a quiet weekend in January was not, and will not cut it in terms of influencing our current management and would have had no impact on their thinking whatsoever. This was, and is, an extremely determined management; they have a big prize in their sights and are willing to risk many millions of pounds to achieve their aim - the ending of unionised cabin crew and with that, the untold savings of low-cost terms and conditions. Their resolve was firm, our resolve needed, and needs to be, equally firm.
Think back to our CEOs’ public statements in the build up to the dates being announced - there was not a hint of compromise, no matter what the potential impact on British Airways or its customers; his private statements to Unites leaders were no less inflammatory. Mr. Walsh is a skilled poker player; he does not reveal his thoughts or his hand. Your union on the other hand, has the disadvantage of being an open democracy with 14,000 members and 14,000 different opinions; every thought is public property, courtesy of websites forums and interviews, every thought or word is seized upon and exploited.
In 2010 we respectfully ask you to consider one resolution, be careful what you say in public; we do not want to see your words used out of context against us and, however well intentioned, used to weaken your colleagues resolve by being blazoned on the front of national newspapers.
Let’s face it, Mr. Walsh would hardly employ such a foolhardy poker strategy and neither should you; when your opportunity to vote comes along, you have a second chance to send a message, don’t waste it - he won’t.
There are always difficulties and setbacks along the way. Yes, they are unfair but the alternative is to simply give up.
2010 could be the year that by staying together, we can show that despite setbacks, we do have the courage and determination to finally get back the respect we deserve and to shape a more certain future for us all. Or will it simply be the year when you surrender your future at the first hurdle and the job you love begins to dwindle away.
That choice as always, will rest with you.
Our issues are no less valid because a judge ignored democracy and allowed our voices to be silenced for a month.
Some things are worth fighting for and we strongly believe that more than ever, but we need you to join with us to do it. We know it’s hard but we need every single one of you to pick yourselves up, dust yourselves off and send a renewed message - “we are still here and we’re not going anywhere until you listen to us”.
What better way to do that than an even stronger ballot result, carried out quietly with dignity and determination.
As before, the option to talk is available to Mr. Walsh and again, we urge him to take it. UNITE has scheduled our new ballot to go out on January the 14th, unless an agreement can be reached. We urge him not to waste this window of opportunity and implore him to follow a course of diplomacy, not conflict, without delay.
If a ballot is issued, it will be because this has failed.
We make this appeal directly to Mr. Walsh. We can waste no more words appealing to Bill Francis; he has been proven to be nothing more than a puppet of those above him. What head of cabin crew would actually participate in destroying the reputation of his own department, and then offer them up as a sacrificial lamb to a biased media? Whatever the outcome, we hope that his Christmas cracker motto recommended moving swiftly along his chosen career path, for his credibility is finished as far as the cabin crew community is concerned.
We wish you well for 2010; may it be the year that you hope it to be.
Sincerely,
All of your BASSA and Amicus reps
2010 - What will it hold for you? Jan 3rd, 2010 by admin
As the old year leaves us and a new one begins, for most people it is a time for reflection on the past and hopefully, optimism for the future.
It is a time of resolutions; some last, some don’t! It is a time for wishing that our friends, family and loved-ones lives will be better in the year ahead.
In some ways we begin anew, with a clean slate and a renewed enthusiasm. Though in reality it is only a date on a calendar and just another day, in our minds it is so much more; it gives us the chance to draw a veil over the past and to start over again - and as crew, that’s exactly what we need to do.
What will the year head hold? Will it be happy, peaceful and prosperous?
The answer to that will largely rest with you; more than in any other year, our future will be shaped permanently and you will be the people that shape it.
We all experienced an emotional and difficult end to 2009, it is often said “that what does not kill you, only makes you stronger” and more than ever we now need to prove that to be true and not just a cliche.
After the Christmas season and with a New Year beginning, it’s very easy to want to move on; it’s only human nature to want to want to put things behind us and forget about them, to in effect “get on with our lives” but we cannot afford to do that; you cannot afford to do that.
The reasons why we reluctantly had to call for industrial action were important then and are more so now.
We were given a very real glimpse of our airlines’ true feelings towards cabin crew and the value that they place on your reputation and standing and indeed our airlines as a whole - and it wasn’t pleasant for anybody.
Nothing has changed.
2010 will be what we make it: will we still have the courage to stand up for what we know is fair and just, or do we no longer have the strength of character to do what we know is right but what will nonetheless require courage to face.
Nobody ever said this would be easy and it isn’t, but that does not make it any less right. The public will never love the fact that they could be inconvenienced if we take strike action, and it would be unrealistic to expect them to do so, but this action is about you and looking after your future.
The public don’t and won’t care one iota whether you can pay a mortgage at the end of 2010 or not, and neither will the press, but you will. So we are going to have to remain strong and focused and work hard to deliver an even stronger message to our board: “leave us alone and let us get on with doing our job”. That’s what we do well, that’s what we want to do, that’s what makes British Airways what it is and that will eventually make the public very happy with us once again.
In one of the more reasoned comments on the dispute, George Galloway said in a radio interview that it was “ quite ludicrous to blame the state of an airline on the people who serve you a tomato juice; the blame must lie with the people that run it”.
The fact that a dangerous and farcical interpretation of the law has delayed the situation into this New Year is something that Mr. Walsh should have considered.
Bullish language, threats, intransigence and the timing of their impositions led to only one course of action - a dispute over Christmas, and a long one; their threats gave no other choice.
Was the twelve days a surprise to most people? Absolutely. That was the point.
It was designed to have shock value, and it did; it was designed to get peoples’ attention, and it did.
Was it a little unnerving? Of course it was, but the point of the action was not to be on strike for twelve days, but to create a situation big enough that it could not be ignored and for negotiation to be recognised as the only sensible way forward.
Some people quite rightly asked, why Christmas? Was twelve days necessary?
Let us be absolutely and unequivocally clear - yes.
If it could have been less, it would have been but we did not have that luxury. Nobody - and we mean, nobody - wants to go on strike. It is always a last resort; we just did not have any other options. This was a management that had planned and calculated for over a year exactly when to impose their changes. They knew the impact it would have on both you and our customers, yet they were the ones who cynically chose to bring any potential dispute to a head directly over the Christmas season, they had prepared for a short strike and had the resources to withstand it; they counted wrong.
This union does not want a strike; it simply wants your agreements honoured, any cuts to be fair and proportionate, and a future that you can be sure of; industrial action will only ever be used to secure those aims.
Therefore, it simply was not an option to have anything less; a relatively easy three-day stoppage over a quiet weekend in January was not, and will not cut it in terms of influencing our current management and would have had no impact on their thinking whatsoever. This was, and is, an extremely determined management; they have a big prize in their sights and are willing to risk many millions of pounds to achieve their aim - the ending of unionised cabin crew and with that, the untold savings of low-cost terms and conditions. Their resolve was firm, our resolve needed, and needs to be, equally firm.
Think back to our CEOs’ public statements in the build up to the dates being announced - there was not a hint of compromise, no matter what the potential impact on British Airways or its customers; his private statements to Unites leaders were no less inflammatory. Mr. Walsh is a skilled poker player; he does not reveal his thoughts or his hand. Your union on the other hand, has the disadvantage of being an open democracy with 14,000 members and 14,000 different opinions; every thought is public property, courtesy of websites forums and interviews, every thought or word is seized upon and exploited.
In 2010 we respectfully ask you to consider one resolution, be careful what you say in public; we do not want to see your words used out of context against us and, however well intentioned, used to weaken your colleagues resolve by being blazoned on the front of national newspapers.
Let’s face it, Mr. Walsh would hardly employ such a foolhardy poker strategy and neither should you; when your opportunity to vote comes along, you have a second chance to send a message, don’t waste it - he won’t.
There are always difficulties and setbacks along the way. Yes, they are unfair but the alternative is to simply give up.
2010 could be the year that by staying together, we can show that despite setbacks, we do have the courage and determination to finally get back the respect we deserve and to shape a more certain future for us all. Or will it simply be the year when you surrender your future at the first hurdle and the job you love begins to dwindle away.
That choice as always, will rest with you.
Our issues are no less valid because a judge ignored democracy and allowed our voices to be silenced for a month.
Some things are worth fighting for and we strongly believe that more than ever, but we need you to join with us to do it. We know it’s hard but we need every single one of you to pick yourselves up, dust yourselves off and send a renewed message - “we are still here and we’re not going anywhere until you listen to us”.
What better way to do that than an even stronger ballot result, carried out quietly with dignity and determination.
As before, the option to talk is available to Mr. Walsh and again, we urge him to take it. UNITE has scheduled our new ballot to go out on January the 14th, unless an agreement can be reached. We urge him not to waste this window of opportunity and implore him to follow a course of diplomacy, not conflict, without delay.
If a ballot is issued, it will be because this has failed.
We make this appeal directly to Mr. Walsh. We can waste no more words appealing to Bill Francis; he has been proven to be nothing more than a puppet of those above him. What head of cabin crew would actually participate in destroying the reputation of his own department, and then offer them up as a sacrificial lamb to a biased media? Whatever the outcome, we hope that his Christmas cracker motto recommended moving swiftly along his chosen career path, for his credibility is finished as far as the cabin crew community is concerned.
We wish you well for 2010; may it be the year that you hope it to be.
Sincerely,
All of your BASSA and Amicus reps
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Well Liz,
when you say,
You clearly dont consider that your advice applies to yourself, do you?
I think you just dropped your entire hand face up on the table!
when you say,
In 2010 we respectfully ask you to consider one resolution, be careful what you say in public; we do not want to see your words used out of context against us and, however well intentioned, used to weaken your colleagues resolve by being blazoned on the front of national newspapers.
Let’s face it, Mr. Walsh would hardly employ such a foolhardy poker strategy and neither should you
Let’s face it, Mr. Walsh would hardly employ such a foolhardy poker strategy and neither should you
Was it a little unnerving? Of course it was, but the point of the action was not to be on strike for twelve days, but to create a situation big enough that it could not be ignored and for negotiation to be recognised as the only sensible way forward.
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I liked the breathtaking arrogance:
coming from a union which had a policy of no negotiation based on a show of hands...
As before, the option to talk is available to Mr. Walsh and again, we urge him to take it.
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This thread is rapidly and visibly shrinking.
Have so many pro-BASSA contributors seen the error of their comments? Are they all so cowardly that they feel they have to rewrite history?
As for the cretins who lead the CC unions: words almost fail me. Proving to your customers that they don't need you is just about the most stupid thing that anyone in any service industry can do.
Have so many pro-BASSA contributors seen the error of their comments? Are they all so cowardly that they feel they have to rewrite history?
As for the cretins who lead the CC unions: words almost fail me. Proving to your customers that they don't need you is just about the most stupid thing that anyone in any service industry can do.
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Your union on the other hand, has the disadvantage of being an open democracy with 14,000 members and 14,000 different opinions
14000 members! .......... I don't think so LaLa ..... or maybe that's just the number of ballot papers you'll be sending out when you've taken into account retiree's hairdressers and their best mates mate. That of course, after you have scrutinized the membership database as humanely as possible.
As for there being 14000 different opinions .... Dont worry, I'm sure your henchmen and cronnies will eventually have that whittled-down to just 1 ... all in the name of democracy, of course.
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You couldn't make this up! Does she want to go down in a blaze of glory?
Also, does anyone else detect a change of tone, as there is grudging respect for Willie Walsh now.
But giving away your strategy on an internet forum
Also, does anyone else detect a change of tone, as there is grudging respect for Willie Walsh now.
But giving away your strategy on an internet forum
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I sincerely hope that any members of Bassa who are still swallowing this shiite wholesale start thinking for themselves - I think we've just witnessed a years worth of brain-washing from Bassa and sadly, it seems to have worked.
Well, lets hope that crew really do start to "wake up and smell the coffee" (a very overused retort to anyone who dares have an alternative view or question Bassa by their acolytes
)
Well, lets hope that crew really do start to "wake up and smell the coffee" (a very overused retort to anyone who dares have an alternative view or question Bassa by their acolytes
)
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This has made me cross: (still don't know how to quote from another post, but this is from Bassa update)
"What head of cabin crew would actually participate in destroying the reputation of his own department, and then offer them up as a sacrificial lamb to a biased media?"
So, the media are biased, the judge was wrong, other departments are evil (pilots are particularly devils spawn).
Erm, how about taking some responsibilty for your monumental ineptitude?
"What head of cabin crew would actually participate in destroying the reputation of his own department, and then offer them up as a sacrificial lamb to a biased media?"
So, the media are biased, the judge was wrong, other departments are evil (pilots are particularly devils spawn).
Erm, how about taking some responsibilty for your monumental ineptitude?
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Our issues are no less valid because a judge ignored democracy and allowed our voices to be silenced for a month.
Why M's Malone are you hell bent on a strike? For what purpose? It will get you no where. What will you do after it, when you find it settles nothing except puts everybody's job in jeopardy? How will you explain it when you you look so stupid that LA tan turns white?
Come on lady get real. You can win nothing. Especially if you do actually find that there is no interest in this strike after all.
The fact that a dangerous and farcical interpretation of the law has delayed the situation into this New Year is something that Mr. Walsh should have considered.
Was the twelve days a surprise to most people? Absolutely. That was the point. It was designed to have shock value, and it did; it was designed to get peoples’ attention, and it did.
UNITE has scheduled our new ballot to go out on January the 14th, unless an agreement can be reached.
There is far too much more rubbish to comment on but one thing is very positive. That you are trying to scare these crews into the snare you are hoping to trap them in.
Madame, you need to refresh your mind and get round the table. Is Unite ringing your bell so hard that you don't have to guts to walk away and do that?
You should read what Albert Salmon has said. He speaks volumes of what is really in the minds of the staff and why the number of posts is falling. They are fed-up with you, Unite and the whole sorry saga.
Stop living in the past and get some sense to work. You must still have some. NO cabin staff need this or want it if truth be known. You are just like your mates. Bullying never got anyone anywhere!.
Last edited by RTR; 3rd Jan 2010 at 22:42.
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BigBrutha - that must have been a juicy posting that you were replying to - it appears to have gone!
If BA announce a change to crew contracts next week it will be interesting to see the share price reaction!
If BA announce a change to crew contracts next week it will be interesting to see the share price reaction!
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Well done Taffy for standing up to the lemmings on the BASSA forum.
"I just wish the majority of you could actually research things for yourselves and form your own opinions instead of believing everything you hear from the Bassa reps!!"
Sadly, I suspect you'll get flamed and bullied. I feel for you.
NIBS is as lucid as ever though. Such an intellectual.
"I just wish the majority of you could actually research things for yourselves and form your own opinions instead of believing everything you hear from the Bassa reps!!"
Sadly, I suspect you'll get flamed and bullied. I feel for you.
NIBS is as lucid as ever though. Such an intellectual.
the debate has unfortunately ended
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The result of the court case in February will have no influence over the forthcoming industrial action. The injunction is about BA breaking contractual agreements.
The industrial action is all about imposition. Looks like Easter is at threat. Walsh can afford to blow £300 to £400 million on a strike as imposition is linked to dealing with the pension deficit. He must get all cabin crew on new contracts.
It is interesting to note how many BA pilots are leaving BALPA for the Civil Air Transport branch of UNITE.
The industrial action is all about imposition. Looks like Easter is at threat. Walsh can afford to blow £300 to £400 million on a strike as imposition is linked to dealing with the pension deficit. He must get all cabin crew on new contracts.
It is interesting to note how many BA pilots are leaving BALPA for the Civil Air Transport branch of UNITE.