British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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@ MissM ...
My goodness, are we J-class pax so much trouble?
Or is it simply that you object to helping in another cabin?
Or that after [was it 12 years?] you are far too important to help the Team?
You really are starting to confuse me now.
Still there will be no problem for you serving in J, or WT+ or anywhere soon.
I don't like to work in Club and because of my seniority I can avoid it like the plague.
Or is it simply that you object to helping in another cabin?
Or that after [was it 12 years?] you are far too important to help the Team?
You really are starting to confuse me now.
Still there will be no problem for you serving in J, or WT+ or anywhere soon.
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I think we've managed to extract enough answers from the typical Bassa mindset to demonstrate the problems that BA has with its cabin crew union.
I think most impartial observers will now agree that it's quite amazing that the Board of BA has maintained such a patient approach to these negotiations, now nearly a year old, in the face of such self-centred, introspective and victim-cultured narcissism.
The attitude that the hardcore bassa members have of being superior to other companies' cabin crew, even their own colleagues at Gatwick, justifying salaries and terms and conditions way out on a limb in excess of the industry norm, yet backed by a rigid dogma that only they are the virtuous ones, working so hard as life-saving angels yet treated in a way far below the status they should be accorded.
There are cabin crew out there who don't think like this, who take a reasoned and considered approach to the company's plight, yet are left voiceless and unrepresented due to the bullying nature of the powerful Bassa reps. That voice needs to be heard, and Bassa has to listen - those people are it members too. All those cabin crew that read this thread who don't post but just browse, please mention the pprune website to other cabin crew in passing, it's the only place where the issues are debated properly and where the counter argument is tolerated.
If people don't see the true reason for this dispute, the surely we'll be dragged into a situation where people one day soon wake up without a job, career or income, and say "How the hell did that just happen?"
I've been to war and I've seen the damage people are prepared to inflict on others in the cause of supporting their tribe, despite the overwhelming wrongness of the cause, particularly when led by a strong-willed leadership, intolerant of adverse criticism and when carried along on a wave of compliant, cultish, unthinking followers.
I see the same sad flaws in human nature in this dispute. The problem is, negotiation rarely has an effect, normality only returns with the abject defeat of the mad dogma.
I think most impartial observers will now agree that it's quite amazing that the Board of BA has maintained such a patient approach to these negotiations, now nearly a year old, in the face of such self-centred, introspective and victim-cultured narcissism.
The attitude that the hardcore bassa members have of being superior to other companies' cabin crew, even their own colleagues at Gatwick, justifying salaries and terms and conditions way out on a limb in excess of the industry norm, yet backed by a rigid dogma that only they are the virtuous ones, working so hard as life-saving angels yet treated in a way far below the status they should be accorded.
There are cabin crew out there who don't think like this, who take a reasoned and considered approach to the company's plight, yet are left voiceless and unrepresented due to the bullying nature of the powerful Bassa reps. That voice needs to be heard, and Bassa has to listen - those people are it members too. All those cabin crew that read this thread who don't post but just browse, please mention the pprune website to other cabin crew in passing, it's the only place where the issues are debated properly and where the counter argument is tolerated.
If people don't see the true reason for this dispute, the surely we'll be dragged into a situation where people one day soon wake up without a job, career or income, and say "How the hell did that just happen?"
I've been to war and I've seen the damage people are prepared to inflict on others in the cause of supporting their tribe, despite the overwhelming wrongness of the cause, particularly when led by a strong-willed leadership, intolerant of adverse criticism and when carried along on a wave of compliant, cultish, unthinking followers.
I see the same sad flaws in human nature in this dispute. The problem is, negotiation rarely has an effect, normality only returns with the abject defeat of the mad dogma.
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I will repeat myself again which I'm sorry for BUT the fact remains that we have been taught year after year that we must never leave doors unattended. That's the issue with doors 5.
I am only correcting you, it's not a criticism. As long as there is a crew member in the vicinity of a pair of days, it's acceptable. Please feel free to telephone any SEP Instuctor in Cranebank and they will confirm the same.
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Posted by VV
So another day on this thread is made up of posts from people who are not cabin crew going on and on about how we should do this and that to save our jobs when we all know where the big money is and its not handing out tea and coffee. Let BASSA take care of our needs and thats why we are in a union to protect us from Villie and Billys secret plans vee have vays of making you verk
So another day on this thread is made up of posts from people who are not cabin crew going on and on about how we should do this and that to save our jobs when we all know where the big money is and its not handing out tea and coffee. Let BASSA take care of our needs and thats why we are in a union to protect us from Villie and Billys secret plans vee have vays of making you verk
What a surprise!
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MissM,
It really is a shame that you don't care. You were hired by BA due to being a caring person, unless you faked it really well at the interview. We are all hired because we are caring people who like working with other people and providing customer service. Basically, you're paid to care, and therefore you should.
In regards to the 777 3-class with 10 crew: At LGW, a crew member comes from Club to WT during 1st breaks. This means the rear galley is covered whilst the other two are doing juice rounds/toilet checks/cabin patrol. It works because we work as a team... If it was a safety/security issue, it would've been changed by now, considering how long we've been operating with these crew levels.
I know you keep repeating yourself in regards to doors 5. It has been pointed out by several posters here as to why it's acceptable to leave doors 5 during demo. If you still have concerns about it, why don't you send an email to CAA? Then you can get the definite answer from the regulators.
Gg
It really is a shame that you don't care. You were hired by BA due to being a caring person, unless you faked it really well at the interview. We are all hired because we are caring people who like working with other people and providing customer service. Basically, you're paid to care, and therefore you should.
In regards to the 777 3-class with 10 crew: At LGW, a crew member comes from Club to WT during 1st breaks. This means the rear galley is covered whilst the other two are doing juice rounds/toilet checks/cabin patrol. It works because we work as a team... If it was a safety/security issue, it would've been changed by now, considering how long we've been operating with these crew levels.
I know you keep repeating yourself in regards to doors 5. It has been pointed out by several posters here as to why it's acceptable to leave doors 5 during demo. If you still have concerns about it, why don't you send an email to CAA? Then you can get the definite answer from the regulators.
Gg
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Wobbler
I don't doubt for a second that other employees in BA see this imposition as reasonable and usually because they have really no idea what they are talking about. It would be the same if I said that we only need one pilot because aircraft are so modern these days that they can take off and land on their own. Why do we need so many CSA when there are self service kiosks at the airport? Why do we need so many managers because they don't care a bit and are nothing but a bunch of attendance clerks?
Of course passengers are upset when crew threaten to strike. People rely to fly all around the year and no time would be a good time for a strike because there would be very little support as people would need to get wherever they're travelling to.
Did BASSA consult its members before suggesting a pay cut? No, you know that's a rhetorical question and you don't need me to answer it for you.
This imposition is worth £40 million and BA has only done this because it's apparently non-contractual. Otherwise they'd probably done more. BA wants at least another £100 million. Where do you think they will get those savings from? This ballot was not, and will not be, about New Fleet. We can sort that out. If that was it maybe it would be more bearable to deal with but BA wants a lot more from IFCE. This is ONLY the beginning and it's sad that some can't seem to understand that. Once this imposition is over they will be coming back for me. We all know what BA thinks of its cabin crew. We are overpaid and expensive and our management does a very good giving us the feeling that we are a nothing but a burden. I did an IT course earlier this year and those people did a very good job pointing out how cheap LGW is and how things would be better if both EF and WW were as good and cheap as them or Emirates.
I won't deny recession. I won't deny BA is having a tough time. But, times will get better and BA will ride out the storm.
To bring BA down would of course not benefit anyone but I would rather see the company go bust than letting WW (and BF) get their wish come through with what they are trying to do. And, that's not only the imposition.
I don't doubt for a second that other employees in BA see this imposition as reasonable and usually because they have really no idea what they are talking about. It would be the same if I said that we only need one pilot because aircraft are so modern these days that they can take off and land on their own. Why do we need so many CSA when there are self service kiosks at the airport? Why do we need so many managers because they don't care a bit and are nothing but a bunch of attendance clerks?
Of course passengers are upset when crew threaten to strike. People rely to fly all around the year and no time would be a good time for a strike because there would be very little support as people would need to get wherever they're travelling to.
Did BASSA consult its members before suggesting a pay cut? No, you know that's a rhetorical question and you don't need me to answer it for you.
This imposition is worth £40 million and BA has only done this because it's apparently non-contractual. Otherwise they'd probably done more. BA wants at least another £100 million. Where do you think they will get those savings from? This ballot was not, and will not be, about New Fleet. We can sort that out. If that was it maybe it would be more bearable to deal with but BA wants a lot more from IFCE. This is ONLY the beginning and it's sad that some can't seem to understand that. Once this imposition is over they will be coming back for me. We all know what BA thinks of its cabin crew. We are overpaid and expensive and our management does a very good giving us the feeling that we are a nothing but a burden. I did an IT course earlier this year and those people did a very good job pointing out how cheap LGW is and how things would be better if both EF and WW were as good and cheap as them or Emirates.
I won't deny recession. I won't deny BA is having a tough time. But, times will get better and BA will ride out the storm.
To bring BA down would of course not benefit anyone but I would rather see the company go bust than letting WW (and BF) get their wish come through with what they are trying to do. And, that's not only the imposition.
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overstress
I don't have any problems with teamwork. I don't care about what people, neither through here or in reality. I have far better things to think about.
I'm not against a change in our agreements which would give our Captain more freedom to decide about the operation. As I have pointed out about our disruption agreement I hate having 2 local nights. That could easily be changed. But, I don't agree that BASSA should lose all control because that means pretty much that BA could do anything to us.
I don't have any problems with teamwork. I don't care about what people, neither through here or in reality. I have far better things to think about.
I'm not against a change in our agreements which would give our Captain more freedom to decide about the operation. As I have pointed out about our disruption agreement I hate having 2 local nights. That could easily be changed. But, I don't agree that BASSA should lose all control because that means pretty much that BA could do anything to us.
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My goodness, are we J-class pax so much trouble?
Or is it simply that you object to helping in another cabin?
Or that after [was it 12 years?] you are far too important to help the Team?
You really are starting to confuse me now.
Still there will be no problem for you serving in J, or WT+ or anywhere soon.
Or is it simply that you object to helping in another cabin?
Or that after [was it 12 years?] you are far too important to help the Team?
You really are starting to confuse me now.
Still there will be no problem for you serving in J, or WT+ or anywhere soon.
Far too important to help the team after 14 yrs? No, not that either.
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Let BASSA take care of our needs and thats why we are in a union to protect us from Villie and Billys secret plans vee have vays of making you verk.
"Vee have ways of making you verk." Is that your real problem? Finally someone has asked you to work for a living - shock horror! What's with the German accent BTW, are you a mate of Max Mosely, or have you run out of WW2 ideas?
Not sure if this has been covered elsewhere in this long thread, but why are BASSA on their campaign literature, using the image of the six US marines erecting the American flag on Iwo Jima (replaced with a BASSA flag). Three of those marines were killed during that same battle, rather a sick use of the image IMHO...
Get real, BASSA numpties. There are people coming home in coffins every day, earning a fraction of what you earn. Airlines are going bust everywhere. And you are going on strike, because someone asked you to work a bit harder?
You are truly pathetic, and for sure, Tony Woodley, Len Mcklusky, and the rest of their cronies will still be in a job (both on well over 100K), after you've fulfilled their political agenda, which gets them elected, and brings down BA, just as happened to pretty much every other British industry. I'll see you at the Dole queue. I'll be the one being done for assault.
Last edited by Slickster; 30th Dec 2009 at 21:04.
Miss M
The question you need to address is the one put to you by Wobbler.
Please explain how it could possibly be in your interest to bring BA down.
All this discussion about the detail of cabin service pales into insignificance compared with this big issue. Even some of your own colleagues don't agree with you on cabin service. So please let's stay with the main topic, which is the reason why so many people are following and contributing to this thread.
Can I suggest to other contributors that we lay off the service level discussions, maybe start a new thread if you feel that would be worthwhile, but we continue to press Miss M and other apologists for BASSA how they justify a policy that has immense consequences for so many uninvolved people, and which to an outsider appears totally barking mad.
And I also suggest we ignore the increasingly tedious and childish postings of
Watersidewonker which waste our time and contribute nothing.
So Miss M back to the main question. All you have said in reply so far is:
To bring BA down would of course not benefit anyone but I would rather see the company go bust than letting WW (and BF) get their wish come through with what they are trying to do.
And, that's not only the imposition.
Explain your reasoning please and how you would justify your actions to the tens of thousands of people who would suffer.
The question you need to address is the one put to you by Wobbler.
Please explain how it could possibly be in your interest to bring BA down.
All this discussion about the detail of cabin service pales into insignificance compared with this big issue. Even some of your own colleagues don't agree with you on cabin service. So please let's stay with the main topic, which is the reason why so many people are following and contributing to this thread.
Can I suggest to other contributors that we lay off the service level discussions, maybe start a new thread if you feel that would be worthwhile, but we continue to press Miss M and other apologists for BASSA how they justify a policy that has immense consequences for so many uninvolved people, and which to an outsider appears totally barking mad.
And I also suggest we ignore the increasingly tedious and childish postings of
Watersidewonker which waste our time and contribute nothing.
So Miss M back to the main question. All you have said in reply so far is:
To bring BA down would of course not benefit anyone but I would rather see the company go bust than letting WW (and BF) get their wish come through with what they are trying to do.
And, that's not only the imposition.
Explain your reasoning please and how you would justify your actions to the tens of thousands of people who would suffer.
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Actually, I think it's chinos, checked shirt (with a jumper draped over the shoulders), and boat shoes.
I won't actually be in the Dole office, of course. I've got the proceeds of my Georgian Surrey mansion to get through first, so won't qualify. I'll enjoy passing by though. Not to mention the Ferrari, and Yacht (why else would I need boat shoes?).
I won't actually be in the Dole office, of course. I've got the proceeds of my Georgian Surrey mansion to get through first, so won't qualify. I'll enjoy passing by though. Not to mention the Ferrari, and Yacht (why else would I need boat shoes?).
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Please someone tell me that BASSA have invented a bot which repeats the same old mantra...
Tiramasu, my humour was aimed at wonker, no offence to hard-working onside crew such as yourself
I'm still trying to get to grips with your logic, MissM, what good is bankrupting a company out of spite?
Also:
The CAA mandate how many pilots and cabin crew we have, not BASSA.
You say BA will ride out the storm, that is exactly BASSA's stance, stick our heads in the sand and hope it all goes away.
Tiramasu, my humour was aimed at wonker, no offence to hard-working onside crew such as yourself
I'm still trying to get to grips with your logic, MissM, what good is bankrupting a company out of spite?
Also:
It would be the same if I said that we only need one pilot because aircraft are so modern these days that they can take off and land on their own
You say BA will ride out the storm, that is exactly BASSA's stance, stick our heads in the sand and hope it all goes away.
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BASSA's stance, stick our heads in the sand and hope it all goes away.
Am trying very hard not to swear.
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-and if our struggle and our LEGITIMATE industrial action brings down the company - we are all screwed - so answer me this - what have WE the Cabin Crew, got to lose? Yeah that's nothing!
EVERYTHING!
I can't believe you of all people is saying this!
VOTE NO AND RESIGN from BASSA as I have!
Please, please save BA!
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And it is of course BA's legal right to change employee's Terms and Conditions providing the sufficient contractual notice has been given.
There is a choice... share the responsibility of doing a little extra work with no pay increase therefore aiding the Company still trading or standing up for YOUR principals and bringing the Company down resulting in ALL staff not involved in this dispute joining the already long dole queue.
Now would you - militant staff - want that latter burden on YOUR shoulder?
There is a choice... share the responsibility of doing a little extra work with no pay increase therefore aiding the Company still trading or standing up for YOUR principals and bringing the Company down resulting in ALL staff not involved in this dispute joining the already long dole queue.
Now would you - militant staff - want that latter burden on YOUR shoulder?
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What on earth has happened to these people - I'm afraid that I'm not even sure that I can refer to some cc that post on here as colleagues.
When I joined, many moons ago now, we were recruited because we were kind, caring, compassionate, would put customers and colleagues first, go the extra mile, etc.
But now in what must surely be just a bad dream, I find myself in the middle of this cesspit of destructive, selfish, lazy, unkind, and immoral group of people.
I am absolutely stunned by the assertions of these "cabin crew" on this thread. When, pray tell, did they become so self-centred and how, dear God, do we ever get it back on track?
They think New Fleet is a threat to their jobs, but can't for the life of them see that by voting for a strike they risk the threat of a New Contract or worse, bankruptcy.
What is risible (if that's possible in such a dangerous position) is that every person that I flew with inbetween the strike announcement and the injunction said they had voted yes, but they would be coming to work because they didn't intend to ruin people's plans. So don't worry, MissM, WW etc. you'll be on the picket line alone. You have many accomplices willing to put the x in the box that BASSA tells them to, but very few willing to strike. Good luck - you are soooo gonna need it.
FFS Get your heads out of the sand. New Fleet is going to be the least of our troubles in a couple of months time.
I am BA cabin crew and the above represents my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
When I joined, many moons ago now, we were recruited because we were kind, caring, compassionate, would put customers and colleagues first, go the extra mile, etc.
But now in what must surely be just a bad dream, I find myself in the middle of this cesspit of destructive, selfish, lazy, unkind, and immoral group of people.
I am absolutely stunned by the assertions of these "cabin crew" on this thread. When, pray tell, did they become so self-centred and how, dear God, do we ever get it back on track?
They think New Fleet is a threat to their jobs, but can't for the life of them see that by voting for a strike they risk the threat of a New Contract or worse, bankruptcy.
What is risible (if that's possible in such a dangerous position) is that every person that I flew with inbetween the strike announcement and the injunction said they had voted yes, but they would be coming to work because they didn't intend to ruin people's plans. So don't worry, MissM, WW etc. you'll be on the picket line alone. You have many accomplices willing to put the x in the box that BASSA tells them to, but very few willing to strike. Good luck - you are soooo gonna need it.
FFS Get your heads out of the sand. New Fleet is going to be the least of our troubles in a couple of months time.
I am BA cabin crew and the above represents my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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A Lurker,
Two points:
1. Without customers there is no business. So you look after them
2. Nobody is indispensable (sp?). Yes you need crew on board. But unfortunately for you (and fortunately for the customer) there are lines and lines of people more than happy to do your job.
Two points:
1. Without customers there is no business. So you look after them
2. Nobody is indispensable (sp?). Yes you need crew on board. But unfortunately for you (and fortunately for the customer) there are lines and lines of people more than happy to do your job.