British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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HiFlyer14
I'm not after your credibility. And, you see me a sheep? Spare me those comments, please. As for the questions raised as to whether you accept those allowances was a rhetorical question but more of a question of your opinion of them and whom who has negotiated them for you. I know perfectly well BA doesn't do individual contracts. But, who knows? Maybe you should email BF and tell him about your idea. He might even appreciate it because he seems to love ideas and feedback from his crew.
Don't I talk to people I work with? All the time. I never said 10000 crew would be striking or standing at the picket line. The majority of those striking crew probably would have gone sick because that's the easiest way. Sure. Maybe crew would have gone back to work in fear if BA had started sacking crew for not turning up for duty.
Is BASSA a cult? Do you honestly think over 10000 people have been mislead by their union?
I'm not after your credibility. And, you see me a sheep? Spare me those comments, please. As for the questions raised as to whether you accept those allowances was a rhetorical question but more of a question of your opinion of them and whom who has negotiated them for you. I know perfectly well BA doesn't do individual contracts. But, who knows? Maybe you should email BF and tell him about your idea. He might even appreciate it because he seems to love ideas and feedback from his crew.
Don't I talk to people I work with? All the time. I never said 10000 crew would be striking or standing at the picket line. The majority of those striking crew probably would have gone sick because that's the easiest way. Sure. Maybe crew would have gone back to work in fear if BA had started sacking crew for not turning up for duty.
Is BASSA a cult? Do you honestly think over 10000 people have been mislead by their union?
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Dairyground
Bold enough? I can't actually understand what the problem is. Some seem so tempted to write at CrewForum, why not do it? What are you afraid of? What do you think they will do? Make your name public so that other crew can hang you? Name and shame you? What might happen is a wild debate and I'm sure you have nothing against that.
None of the moderators, except the owner of course, have access to your personal details. BASSA, on the other hand, is a different story.
Has anyone been bold enough to copy it to the BASSA forum or CF, and if so, how long did it last before being moderated off?
None of the moderators, except the owner of course, have access to your personal details. BASSA, on the other hand, is a different story.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
.... Do you honestly think over 10000 people have been mislead by their union?.....
If in the subsequent ballot it's the same result...... words fail me. Either totally delusional with no concept of the real world or totally selfish beyond belief because they have other incomes to fall back on and would rather the company fail and sod everyone else (tens of thousands.....)
WW is out to destroy the Union - he's got to otherwise BA will die a slow death - simples. I predict either defeat for the union in the ballot or BA will go the 90 day route - why prolong the inevitable.
Game over either way.
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My thanks to overstress and deeceethree for replies to my #935 ... hmmmm, mixed messages!
So ... Does BA potentially have enough CC to continue to operate out of LHR in Mar/Apr/May? Or is BA effectively dead already?
- Court Hearing, BASSA ballot, whatever ... let's say late Feb is "decision time".
- At that point, by some hypotheses posted here, Mr Walsh puts all LHR CC on 90 days' notice - retirement date in late May.
- Between those two dates, can we assume that the militant LHR crews will all go sick [which they reportedly do if assigned flight duties don't suit them].
- Flight scheduling chaos ensues, to the detriment of the paying pax who keep the wounded whale of BA afloat.
So ... Does BA potentially have enough CC to continue to operate out of LHR in Mar/Apr/May? Or is BA effectively dead already?
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Originally Posted by MissM
Is BASSA a cult? Do you honestly think over 10000 people have been mislead by their union?
Originally Posted by lalalady
The legal injunction received by British Airways was obtained by exploiting a legal loophole by a
judge who was willing to allow, what is in essence a technicality, to push the balance of the law even further
towards an employer that without conscience, was willing to use it.
judge who was willing to allow, what is in essence a technicality, to push the balance of the law even further
towards an employer that without conscience, was willing to use it.
Originally Posted by lalalady
A High Court Judge has today ruled that BA crew have a legitimate claim against British Airways for
breach of contract.
The evidence put forward in favour of the cabin crew has won them the right to a have their case heard in full on
1st Feb 2010.
breach of contract.
The evidence put forward in favour of the cabin crew has won them the right to a have their case heard in full on
1st Feb 2010.
Originally Posted by lalalady
Your union worked hard in offering proposals on your behalf for a package of savings to help
address the company’s objectives. Although this was difficult, we believe our suggestions were fair and reasonable
and completely proportionate to those achieved elsewhere within British Airways.
British Airways chose to reject these proposals, even though they included a temporary pay cut. We can only
conclude therefore that its unwillingness to work with your union signals a determination to also force through
future wider structural changes without consent.
address the company’s objectives. Although this was difficult, we believe our suggestions were fair and reasonable
and completely proportionate to those achieved elsewhere within British Airways.
British Airways chose to reject these proposals, even though they included a temporary pay cut. We can only
conclude therefore that its unwillingness to work with your union signals a determination to also force through
future wider structural changes without consent.
years. This offer was valued at just over £50M by PWC.
Originally Posted by lalalady
In negotiations, BA have been merely going through the motions, looking for justification for their determination to impose changes without agreement.
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2-Tone, there are so many false assumptions in your posting that I hardly know where to begin...
I don't think BA is filing for pre-pack administration on the basis of your bullet points...
The court hearing is 1 Feb where I expect BASSA will lose and also have any future strike declared illegal. The ballot, if issued, will clash with the court hearing so I don't know what BASSA are thinking there. Too many kitchens to fit in March?
Crews may vote for a strike but will report for work or be sacked. So no, BA is not 'effectively dead'.
Keep on talking us down, though (are you hoping to pick up some cheap shares, like me?
)
I don't think BA is filing for pre-pack administration on the basis of your bullet points...
The court hearing is 1 Feb where I expect BASSA will lose and also have any future strike declared illegal. The ballot, if issued, will clash with the court hearing so I don't know what BASSA are thinking there. Too many kitchens to fit in March?
Crews may vote for a strike but will report for work or be sacked. So no, BA is not 'effectively dead'.
Keep on talking us down, though (are you hoping to pick up some cheap shares, like me?
)
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@ overstress - Court hearing date noted in my diary 
Ooops - edits noted!! I'm floating thoughts, not cogent opinions. Much of this 'debate' touches on areas where I have nil relevant expertise - I just give BA money to fly me.
It's nice to hear an optimist there; I hope you're right for the sake of the thousands of staff and millions on pax. I still wouldn't touch the shares, though!
Ooops - edits noted!! I'm floating thoughts, not cogent opinions. Much of this 'debate' touches on areas where I have nil relevant expertise - I just give BA money to fly me.
It's nice to hear an optimist there; I hope you're right for the sake of the thousands of staff and millions on pax. I still wouldn't touch the shares, though!
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Mine amended as well!!
So - they report to work or get sacked? Nobody "throwing a sickie"? Ninety days notice or instant dismissal?
I refer the Hon Gent to the point I made earlier ... are there enough staff to cover the striking/sick CC? How fast could BA recruit/train/roster replacement CC?
So - they report to work or get sacked? Nobody "throwing a sickie"? Ninety days notice or instant dismissal?
I refer the Hon Gent to the point I made earlier ... are there enough staff to cover the striking/sick CC? How fast could BA recruit/train/roster replacement CC?
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Two-Tone-Blue
Can I ask what you base this on?
Between those two dates, can we assume that the militant LHR crews will all go sick [which they reportedly do if assigned flight duties don't suit them].
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This has all been covered before in the previous threads. However, BA will be on the look-out for 'pattern sickness' - go sick on the day of a strike and you had better have a genuine reason!
As to numbers, BA will establish how many intend to work (it will be a high %age) and crew the flights accordingly.
BA can switch crew reporting for a flight to another flight at a moment's notice anyway.
Where were you flying to?
As to numbers, BA will establish how many intend to work (it will be a high %age) and crew the flights accordingly.
BA can switch crew reporting for a flight to another flight at a moment's notice anyway.
Where were you flying to?
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Hi, MissM. Pessimism? It's been noted on this thread that CC tend to go sick when they don't fancy a sector. I'd be delighted if that was wrong.
How fast could BA recruit/train/roster replacement CC?
Then you have the Virgin/BMI/Flyglobespan cabin crew (300?) all made redundant in recent months. From scratch it doesn't take much time (2 weeks-ish) to train cabin crew though you might have a further wait if any additional security clearnces are sought. In any event, I think BA could get at least 500 cabin crew up and running in a few weeks, with a substantial number of them having already being qualified by BA or other airlines.
It's been noted on this thread that CC tend to go sick when they don't fancy a sector
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Two-Tone-Blue
Pessimism? No, not at all but it would be interesting to know where you got that from! Did you get it from that person who says sickness is rocket high and particulary amongst part-time crew who can't be bothered to do certain trips?
deeceethree
It might be openly discussed but it doesn't necessary have to be the truth. One thing you should learn is that many crew say things without really meaning it. This doesn't mean it doesn't happen because it does but usually those "bragging" about it don't do it.
Pessimism? No, not at all but it would be interesting to know where you got that from! Did you get it from that person who says sickness is rocket high and particulary amongst part-time crew who can't be bothered to do certain trips?
deeceethree
It might be openly discussed but it doesn't necessary have to be the truth. One thing you should learn is that many crew say things without really meaning it. This doesn't mean it doesn't happen because it does but usually those "bragging" about it don't do it.
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I really wish everyone would go back to the table and start to talk through solutions, as it is it looks like the next strike dates are bound to be Easter time, which will again be wonderful for BA's profile.
Why are LHR CC so against working the same conditions as LGW CC? I am a lowly SLF, who normally chooses BA, I've held my exec club card for 10 years, I have also in recent years held a Gold Virgin and Gold Air France.
I think its great that CC feel so passionate about customer service that they are willing to bring the company down because they dont feel it can be met with a lower crew compliment. I have also flown long haul routes out of LGW in Club World and found the service to be at least as good if not better than that of some of the ex-LHR flights I have taken.
My biggest issue with LGW is security screening is so slow compared to LHR.
One further thought, it has always been my view that the morning I wake up and don't want to go to work, or hate my employer that I move on. I am simply amazed at the attitude of some of the staff here and how much they hate the company that employs them. If you dont like working there go find another job.... its not rocket science. There are people here who are passionate about the company and delivering excellence, I have met many of them on flights I have taken with BA.
Why are LHR CC so against working the same conditions as LGW CC? I am a lowly SLF, who normally chooses BA, I've held my exec club card for 10 years, I have also in recent years held a Gold Virgin and Gold Air France.
I think its great that CC feel so passionate about customer service that they are willing to bring the company down because they dont feel it can be met with a lower crew compliment. I have also flown long haul routes out of LGW in Club World and found the service to be at least as good if not better than that of some of the ex-LHR flights I have taken.
My biggest issue with LGW is security screening is so slow compared to LHR.
One further thought, it has always been my view that the morning I wake up and don't want to go to work, or hate my employer that I move on. I am simply amazed at the attitude of some of the staff here and how much they hate the company that employs them. If you dont like working there go find another job.... its not rocket science. There are people here who are passionate about the company and delivering excellence, I have met many of them on flights I have taken with BA.
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One further thought, it has always been my view that the morning I wake up and don't want to go to work, or hate my employer that I move on. I am simply amazed at the attitude of some of the staff here and how much they hate the company that employs them. If you dont like working there go find another job.... its not rocket science.
A complete career change is also naturally difficult for anyone who has been in a particular industry for a long period of time, not least one such as aviation which is very different to 9-5 work.
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Two Tone Blue
Hi, MissM. Pessimism? It's been noted on this thread that CC tend to go sick when they don't fancy a sector. I'd be delighted if that was wrong.
We actually have quite a stringent sickness management policy which would and does put paid to that kind of attitude. In common with other departments, two periods of sickness in the same six month period will put you through quite heavy performance management with ongoing monitoring. It may have been true once but not in 2009/2010!
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One thing you should learn is that many crew say things without really meaning it. This doesn't mean it doesn't happen because it does but usually those "bragging" about it don't do it.
