British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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SlideBustle
I know you asked me to let go of those feelings about management but I simply can't. It's not something BASSA has told me to do. It's my own opinion about BA and our so-called management.
BF says NewFleet will work according to crew leaving through retirement or resignation. It's not actually a comfort once it's set up and running efficiently and economically unless there will be a clause in a piece of paper that prevents it from happening otherwise because if not BA will screw us big time.
Think about when BA starts getting A380 and B787 in a few years time which isn't THAT far away. NRT, JNB, CPT, LAX, SIN and HKG will be the first ones to go and once the ball is running it won't stop. It's the same for you guys EF and your best paid cities. You'll be doing MAN and WAW.
WW says it's not set in stone. Not very comforting words as he has had this up his sleeve for 2 years and I don't think for a second he will throw that idea out the window just because crew are worried and upset about their careers and lives.
I know you asked me to let go of those feelings about management but I simply can't. It's not something BASSA has told me to do. It's my own opinion about BA and our so-called management.
BF says NewFleet will work according to crew leaving through retirement or resignation. It's not actually a comfort once it's set up and running efficiently and economically unless there will be a clause in a piece of paper that prevents it from happening otherwise because if not BA will screw us big time.
Think about when BA starts getting A380 and B787 in a few years time which isn't THAT far away. NRT, JNB, CPT, LAX, SIN and HKG will be the first ones to go and once the ball is running it won't stop. It's the same for you guys EF and your best paid cities. You'll be doing MAN and WAW.
WW says it's not set in stone. Not very comforting words as he has had this up his sleeve for 2 years and I don't think for a second he will throw that idea out the window just because crew are worried and upset about their careers and lives.
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fly12345 I know it is daft really!! Especially because I am paying £15 each month for the ''benefits''. 
I suppose it's for reasons that some of the militants would regard as ''selfish reasons''. Some other posts posted a couple of pages back the benefits of the union and why you should be wary of not being non unionised. Where would you get the relevant protection for general issues. I suppose you may say if they were doing anything ''unfair'' or illegal I would have employment law to fall back on which is more than enough as laws in this country are very strict now I suppose, so yes I know it is silly.
However rest assured, I am very seriously considering resigning! No voters are not welcome anyway in lalaland! I just think a union can actually bring benefits, unfortunately crew do not have an effective union when it comes to negotiation, bringing about change and working with the company to ensure a positive working attitude which helps the business and customer. If they were seperate I would join cc89 but they are now both part of Unite.... I wish there was a more reasonable, rational union that looked after crew welfare but at the same time were balanced and realistic about this and recognised change is necassary and that BA is a business and we are there to look after customers' safety and service.
I suppose it's for reasons that some of the militants would regard as ''selfish reasons''. Some other posts posted a couple of pages back the benefits of the union and why you should be wary of not being non unionised. Where would you get the relevant protection for general issues. I suppose you may say if they were doing anything ''unfair'' or illegal I would have employment law to fall back on which is more than enough as laws in this country are very strict now I suppose, so yes I know it is silly. However rest assured, I am very seriously considering resigning! No voters are not welcome anyway in lalaland! I just think a union can actually bring benefits, unfortunately crew do not have an effective union when it comes to negotiation, bringing about change and working with the company to ensure a positive working attitude which helps the business and customer. If they were seperate I would join cc89 but they are now both part of Unite.... I wish there was a more reasonable, rational union that looked after crew welfare but at the same time were balanced and realistic about this and recognised change is necassary and that BA is a business and we are there to look after customers' safety and service.
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MissM, obviously you have your reason why you don't trust management. Do I trust management you may ask?? Well I do and I don't really. I don't disbelieve everything they say and dismiss it and try and think what they might do however I don't believe everything and think they are amazing either! I just don't think they are the enemy some people make out.
The ballot is NOT about New Fleet which is perfectly legal unfortunately. The union has had plenty of oppurtunities to avoid it - by making concessions on current fleets in addition to the crew complements. We can't have our cake and eat it unfortunately. Somethings have to give. The Unite proposal was not enough. However when BA pointed out this, BASSA threw toys out the pram leading to this imposition - but BA still waited 3 months or so after deadline before imposing!!! By the way, don't mean to sound patronising, but how has your flights been since imposition? Why can't we trial these complements and feed it back if they are not working. ''Imposition doesn't work'' well neither does refusal to negotiate when a company is bleeding cash. The company also has a responsiblity to shareholders and keeping other people who have agreed to savings in jobs, if they just let themselves lose so much cash without doing anything, they would be seen as ''neligible''.
Apart from getting rid of the telephone allowance and a 2.9& or whatever paycut, what changes do YOU think BA could do instead of what they have done/New Fleet? Because unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and savings need to be made but the company said they will try and minimize the effect on us current crew. Whether you believe them or not is another story but....
The ballot is NOT about New Fleet which is perfectly legal unfortunately. The union has had plenty of oppurtunities to avoid it - by making concessions on current fleets in addition to the crew complements. We can't have our cake and eat it unfortunately. Somethings have to give. The Unite proposal was not enough. However when BA pointed out this, BASSA threw toys out the pram leading to this imposition - but BA still waited 3 months or so after deadline before imposing!!! By the way, don't mean to sound patronising, but how has your flights been since imposition? Why can't we trial these complements and feed it back if they are not working. ''Imposition doesn't work'' well neither does refusal to negotiate when a company is bleeding cash. The company also has a responsiblity to shareholders and keeping other people who have agreed to savings in jobs, if they just let themselves lose so much cash without doing anything, they would be seen as ''neligible''.
Apart from getting rid of the telephone allowance and a 2.9& or whatever paycut, what changes do YOU think BA could do instead of what they have done/New Fleet? Because unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and savings need to be made but the company said they will try and minimize the effect on us current crew. Whether you believe them or not is another story but....
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Terms and conditions which cabin crew have are no different than anywhere else in the airline agreed by both sides now one side wants to change them hence the trouble around at the moment. If we looked at other areas of the airline '' Market Rate '' perhaps benchmarked to other airlines in Eastern Europe we could have a little understanding of where say a manager in Warsaw earns so much less than his/her equivalent at say Waterside or IM etc etc. Does a EZ sales manager at Luton earn more than a BA manager working in sales at WS. If you joined knowing the terms and conditions and then they change by say -30% wouldn't you be unhappy thats what Villie and Billy want to do to us.
Has it not occurred to you that the recent actions of your clueless union have actually made the scenario of BA replacing you with professional and affordable East European cabin crew seem perfectly reasonable as far as the public is concerned?
Not to mention the fact, of course, they probably wouldn't consider passengers to be an inconvenience that they have to "tolerate" at work.
And can we stop rehashing the T5 problems? They were sorted out, and in that year BA made a record profit. Yet Wicked Willie still refused his bonus, which was unnecessary given the financial results and which the Board had not asked him to do.
Please stop being such a bunch of willie bashers.
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I have a very simple question for Wonker and MissM:
What do you suggest we should do next?
For clarification, by saying "we", I mean us as a company, and also, I'd like to point out that removing the imposition isn't an option.
Gg
What do you suggest we should do next?
For clarification, by saying "we", I mean us as a company, and also, I'd like to point out that removing the imposition isn't an option.
Gg
Nb . Hotel Mode
An interesting observation and I've no idea of course if it is a valid point.
For myself the terminal of departure would be my last consideration when weighing up the options; given that the destination is cast in concrete, then things like airline of preference with regard to safety (and there are a couple that I will never fly with, and BA will be added to that list on 1st April 2014 - for a different reason not related to safety of course) price, time of departure and / or arrival, number of stops etc would come first, where I had to get to for boarding would only feature of all else was equal.
Still, England is not the England I was born in, grew up in, and worked in, nor BA the same BOAC / BA I flew for, so maybe a choice between T.3 ( which I only used as an example ) and T.5 is an important factor now
Thank you
Passengers will however choose BA over other airlines to avoid the zoo of T3
For myself the terminal of departure would be my last consideration when weighing up the options; given that the destination is cast in concrete, then things like airline of preference with regard to safety (and there are a couple that I will never fly with, and BA will be added to that list on 1st April 2014 - for a different reason not related to safety of course) price, time of departure and / or arrival, number of stops etc would come first, where I had to get to for boarding would only feature of all else was equal.
Still, England is not the England I was born in, grew up in, and worked in, nor BA the same BOAC / BA I flew for, so maybe a choice between T.3 ( which I only used as an example ) and T.5 is an important factor now
Thank you
N4790P
Passengers will however choose BA over other airlines to avoid the zoo of T3
Personally the terminal at LHR doesn't factor into any of my travel considerations and I would be surprised if it did with many pax.
Personally the terminal at LHR doesn't factor into any of my travel considerations and I would be surprised if it did with many pax.
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apropos of none of the above, I've been giving it some thought (!)
If WW wants to play really hard, wouldn't the removal of staff travel totally throw a spanner in the works? Is it a perk or written into staffs' contracts?
If WW wants to play really hard, wouldn't the removal of staff travel totally throw a spanner in the works? Is it a perk or written into staffs' contracts?
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You get the impression on here that cabin crew hate Willie.
After 24 years as a pilot and as a single guy for a good deal of that I would say that they (all three genders)are quite fond of willie.
I would agree though that after reading CF there are alot of willie bashers
Now to the topic. We are at an impasse. There is only one way out. Purge the crew that seem to think that they are owed a living by BA. Put them on the street. You would be doing them a favour as its slave labour and they hate all aspects of their job. Clearly they only stay for the EASY wedge. Grant them their wish and relieve them of the odius task of working for BA. Then we can move on with those on board that want to be there for more than selfish reasons.
After 24 years as a pilot and as a single guy for a good deal of that I would say that they (all three genders)are quite fond of willie.
I would agree though that after reading CF there are alot of willie bashers
Now to the topic. We are at an impasse. There is only one way out. Purge the crew that seem to think that they are owed a living by BA. Put them on the street. You would be doing them a favour as its slave labour and they hate all aspects of their job. Clearly they only stay for the EASY wedge. Grant them their wish and relieve them of the odius task of working for BA. Then we can move on with those on board that want to be there for more than selfish reasons.
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Crew Forum
Originally Posted by Miss
If you raised your opinion on CrewForum they wouldn't ban you. They wouldn't pass on your details to BASSA or even less make them public because I'm sure that would be against the law. ET is a nice and responsible guy and who would never do it. He only needs to know your name and staff number to avoid unauthorized people getting access. If I were you I would only prepare myself for an intense and tough debate with other members.
I have been recently abused on Crew Forum, despite numerous plea's to the mods to close or delete the thread, the abuse continued for days, then I discovered that one of my more vocal abusers was a Mod.
To me crew forum is where mob rule always leads the discussion into the sewer. There is a minority of posters, for the most part, appear to enjoy antagonizing anybody that has a different opinion to them.
Posters aren't held responsible or accountable for their words which in turn encourages a culture of disrespect.
Crew Forum is a lost cause - don't bother.
Staff Travel is non-contractural
WW required some cost cutting within S.T. so after 3 years of negotiations, with the union and retired staff representatives sworn to a Confidentiality Agreement, i.e. a secrecy clause, staff travel was made available to more people with the introduction of Staff Travel 2009.
Staff - and former staff, because now it is no longer necessary to be in receipt of a pension to qualify for staff travel after employment ceases - can now change their nominated 'partner' - of either sex - every 6 months, instead of the previous 12 months wait, so if you fall out with your 'partner' you can choose another one fairly quickly ! Some former staff now also qualify for confirmed 'free' trips after only 20 years service, whereas most of us had to work 30 years to qualify for that - I wonder why !
To realise whatever 'saving' the management reckoned that they were making, they kicked out those pensioners, and yes, I'm one, whose time in retirement had exceeded their time in employment - a new rule - retrospectively, with immediate effect, the secrecy agreement ensured that we had no knowledge of what was about to hit us when S.T. 2009 was published.
Those hit hardest are the longest retired, and therefore the oldest and least able to re-adjust, many chose their retirement locations on the expectation, if not actually contractual, of being able to return home to visit family from time to time, albeit with the restrictions of standby and all that entails, but not now, thanks to Willie, who has to thank those he has so unceremoniously kicked out for him even having an airline to control today.
Many go back to the early origins of BOAC and BEA, and retired many, many, years ago. I leave it to your imagination what value their pensions are today, out of which they will now have to find full commercial fares.
For readers who are not BA employees, I make no apology, many concerns give advantages to their employees and pensioners, and whatever the justification for that principle, or not, what is not justified is the way the older pensioners have been kicked out of BA concessional travel privileges. Remember, we only occupy otherwise empty seats, and our reduced fare helps pay the new Carbon Tax that has to be met whether the aircraft is full or empty.
The only sop to us has been a reluctant agreement to delay the excommunication until 1st April 2014 , "To Get Used To It" - their words,at which time I will no longer have any interest in BA, and will actively work to destroy it if I can if WW is still in charge, he won't get a cent of my money and I will not advise any friends to travel BA.
Bitter, you bet.
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ExSpeedbird
It's a sad story, I do feel for you....
To me it makes it only more clear that the strike actions of CC are unacceptable.
It is the loss making of BA that brings about the changes WW had made (to your detriment in this case, and an unnecessary one perhaps), in a healthy company no CEO would have done this, not even WW.
You might not like WW but if he does take on the unions and rules with an iron fist, economic long term principles as a first priority, it will be the salvation of BA and thus of the income of many.
The CC who insist on striking over bringing their remuneration closer to the industry average not only damage the work prospects of their fellow CC, but also of the flying crew, the ground crew, the admin crew and apparently the benefits of pensioners as well....
Every war brings pain to the innocent. You are a victim.
SLF
It's a sad story, I do feel for you....
To me it makes it only more clear that the strike actions of CC are unacceptable.
It is the loss making of BA that brings about the changes WW had made (to your detriment in this case, and an unnecessary one perhaps), in a healthy company no CEO would have done this, not even WW.
You might not like WW but if he does take on the unions and rules with an iron fist, economic long term principles as a first priority, it will be the salvation of BA and thus of the income of many.
The CC who insist on striking over bringing their remuneration closer to the industry average not only damage the work prospects of their fellow CC, but also of the flying crew, the ground crew, the admin crew and apparently the benefits of pensioners as well....
Every war brings pain to the innocent. You are a victim.
SLF
van Horck
.
Thank you for at least reading my rant !
I'm proud to say that I once worked for BOAC ( and my BEA colleagues feel the same ) Willie can't.
ExSp33db1rd
Every war brings pain to the innocent. You are a victim
Thank you for at least reading my rant !
I'm proud to say that I once worked for BOAC ( and my BEA colleagues feel the same ) Willie can't.
ExSp33db1rd
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Just waiting for BASSA to send me my P45.
MrB
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MissM
As one of those horrible people, albeit a BA gold member since 2001 I have a certain loyalty towards BA and fly them whenever I can. In support of Tiramisu and other no-voters, I resolved to keep flying BA for as long as the airline exists - so in no way was I making a long-term commitment.
In my personal capacity, I will carry on booking BA.
However, as a manager of a business, I have to put my personal feelings aside and act in the best interest of others.
· Shareholders who put up the capital and are entitled to the best return;
· Customers who are expecting us to arrive at our destination to meet our commitments to them; and
· The staff who are planning their lives (personal and professional) around their traveling commitments.
I cannot with a clear conscience book or allow any business travel on BA until the threat of strike action is behind us. BASSA has made it clear that it will use IA to create as much disruption as possible. I cannot afford to let that disrupt my business because if it does, it could mean the failure of my firm.
I wish to convey my intention to BASSA, could you please PM me their contact details.
MissM
Are you suggesting pay should be reviewed yearly and changed accordingly based on what competetitors are charging for their services?
Well, why not? That is what happens in the real world to any person with a performance objective.............. And if the firm makes a loss, everybody suffers the consequences, even those who have given twenty years of service.
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Wonker,
CRM doesn't mean a 'luv up' or 'Cuddly Reassuring Manner' and, unlike the collective Hive mentality of the BASSA chosen we are allowed to have an opinion.
If the idiots on the board of BASSA think they can bring the company down and risk my job as well then the issue becomes mine.
Personally I would hoof out all of the trouble makers on a 90 day notice of contract cancellation. The rot has gone on too long and spread too far.
So, once again, anything useful to add?
CRM doesn't mean a 'luv up' or 'Cuddly Reassuring Manner' and, unlike the collective Hive mentality of the BASSA chosen we are allowed to have an opinion.
If the idiots on the board of BASSA think they can bring the company down and risk my job as well then the issue becomes mine.
Personally I would hoof out all of the trouble makers on a 90 day notice of contract cancellation. The rot has gone on too long and spread too far.
So, once again, anything useful to add?
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VV
Crew will decide what is best.
Not many cc seem to post on this thread, so perhaps not many will have been pointed towards their responsibilities for their colleagues. Unless there were many silent cc readers. I hope so but I suspect not...
So I expect the vote will be short term and egoistic with a majority FOR strike action but no doubt a lower majority, which will prove the sneaky attitude of Bassa on the previous vote (the 12 days intention and the Xmas intention).
What goes around comes around, and your exceptional lack of collegiality I hope will one day come to haunt you. You are a mean and selfish cc.
Crew will decide what is best.
Not many cc seem to post on this thread, so perhaps not many will have been pointed towards their responsibilities for their colleagues. Unless there were many silent cc readers. I hope so but I suspect not...
So I expect the vote will be short term and egoistic with a majority FOR strike action but no doubt a lower majority, which will prove the sneaky attitude of Bassa on the previous vote (the 12 days intention and the Xmas intention).
What goes around comes around, and your exceptional lack of collegiality I hope will one day come to haunt you. You are a mean and selfish cc.