British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Miss M Feels Degraded
Miss M,
You feel degraded. And so you should. After all you and your ilk have decided that it is you that should run BA - not the managers placed there by shareholders.
Miss M, It is you and your fellow dreamers who have decided to destroy thousands of families, their pensions, their jobs
Miss M, it is you and your comrades who have decided to destroy the precious holidays of those that fly with BA.
Don't expect any sympathy.
Hval
You feel degraded. And so you should. After all you and your ilk have decided that it is you that should run BA - not the managers placed there by shareholders.
Miss M, It is you and your fellow dreamers who have decided to destroy thousands of families, their pensions, their jobs
Miss M, it is you and your comrades who have decided to destroy the precious holidays of those that fly with BA.
Don't expect any sympathy.
Hval
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Ex Temps
There are 200+ ex temp crew who are in the hold pool in addition to the general hold pool. These guys are fully checked out in terms of 5 year history and would only need the CRC check, which when I called today they said could be turned around in 10 days (as we have all had the checks done in the past 24 months) take in to account notice period and the 6 days training needed for Ex temps, BA could have some 200+ crew on New Temp contracts, and in the main have other flying experience.
I fully understand why existing crew want to keep their T&C’s but this has now gone way too far. I hope they do call us temps back, and hope that we could help keep this iconic brand alive and kicking...
Be warned 200 ex temps ready in a matter of 2 weeks and another 400+ within 6-8 weeks! As well as the existing staff...
Would the ex temps be considered as experienced, if they have not been away from BA for more than 3 years and have previous flying experience? (Under CAA rules)
I fully understand why existing crew want to keep their T&C’s but this has now gone way too far. I hope they do call us temps back, and hope that we could help keep this iconic brand alive and kicking...
Be warned 200 ex temps ready in a matter of 2 weeks and another 400+ within 6-8 weeks! As well as the existing staff...
Would the ex temps be considered as experienced, if they have not been away from BA for more than 3 years and have previous flying experience? (Under CAA rules)
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A Lurker
I said it before earlier on this evening BA only need to operate the routes which generate the most income, and that is easily achievable. 
Be warned of what? 200 crew could operate 15/20 Long Haul flights - wow
The you would need another 200 the next day, then another 200 the day after etc etc etc
The you would need another 200 the next day, then another 200 the day after etc etc etc
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Sorry Lurker as I don’t often post on here I have no idea how to use the “Quote” function!
Firstly understand that my post is to show you guys just how much you are placing your own jobs in jeopardy, having worked onboard with you all the last thing I want is to see any pain caused to crew irrespective of how hard line BASSA they are. Whilst on the subject I also agree that peoples perceptions of the role are somewhat naive.
To manage the expectations of some 300 people for “X” amount of hours is no easy task, not even going any where near the safety and medical stuff involved..... Yes been in the army is tough I know from personal experience as a trained RGN practitioner, but those skills have nothing to do with managing the expectations/emotions/needs of such a diverse mix of pax that the BA crew work with.
What I was trying to say is that if they call back Ex temps and bring in new crew, they would have possibly 600 new staff on new contracts, able to work to CAA minimum crew! This would make some way to keep the operation going along with the existing staff and those who choose to work!
Force BASSA to negotiate a deal that works for all
Last post and will continue to read with interest
Firstly understand that my post is to show you guys just how much you are placing your own jobs in jeopardy, having worked onboard with you all the last thing I want is to see any pain caused to crew irrespective of how hard line BASSA they are. Whilst on the subject I also agree that peoples perceptions of the role are somewhat naive.
To manage the expectations of some 300 people for “X” amount of hours is no easy task, not even going any where near the safety and medical stuff involved..... Yes been in the army is tough I know from personal experience as a trained RGN practitioner, but those skills have nothing to do with managing the expectations/emotions/needs of such a diverse mix of pax that the BA crew work with.
What I was trying to say is that if they call back Ex temps and bring in new crew, they would have possibly 600 new staff on new contracts, able to work to CAA minimum crew! This would make some way to keep the operation going along with the existing staff and those who choose to work!
Force BASSA to negotiate a deal that works for all
Last post and will continue to read with interest
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Please don't try to put your interpretation on what I say, MissM. I try to speak clearly, obviously from a certain position.
I might be selfish, paranoid, arrogant, unsympathetic and everything else which I have been called here. I can't remember everything. I might be militant too when it comes to wanting to protect my lifehood. But, I can pride myself with having passed every single test since 1995 with a pass rate between 98% to 100% and knowing where every single SEP equipment is located on the aircraft I work on. Simply because I'm militant doesn't mean I value or am less capable of dealing with safety. It doesn't mean I wouldn't be dragging your, or anyone else's, backside out of a burning or sinking aircraft if that should happen. Because I would as I value safety more than anything else.
That's how I interpreted your message.
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Miss M Might Be Militant
Miss M
But Miss M, you and your comrades have the stated aim of destroying BA and WW. How does that protect your livelihood?
Hval
I might be militant too when it comes to wanting to protect my lifehood
Hval
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so what do the cabin crew think to willie walshs' letter asking everyone to train as cabin crew should the strike go ahead? This is desperate action which won't fix the problem in the long term!
Will BA employees stand united?
Will BA employees stand united?
However, I do have some serious concerns regarding our volunteering pilots, having taken over a few aircraft that have been playing up in the wilds of Prestwick. (Easily recognisable by the flooded front galley and the fact that all the call bells are lit.)
Pilots, I'm sure you'll have no problems with the safety side of things. If you can figure out what the heck ATC are talking about, then the operation of a BCF or Defib should be no problem. However, you'll find the brewers work much better in the whole tea/coffee scenario, if you actually put the pot under them before you switch them on! And call bells are NOT toys and do NOT make the plane fly faster! I know that's hard to believe, but it's true.
While I hope for everyones sake that it doesn't come to it, if the worst happens and another strike is declared, I too, look forward to flying with you all.
Jsl
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hval
Yes, I do.
Did I ever say I wanted to destroy BA? That question should be asked to WW instead.
I feel as much as for LGW as I do for LHR. Seeing as what has happened down at LGW I wouldn't want this to happen at LHR.
Have you seen my bank account?
The rax rise isn't that much and especially not as most crew have been given an increment this year. I won't deny that BASSA probably could have dealt with it better. I heard today that they had a meeting with them in November and hadn't heard anything from them since until a couple of days ago. Whether that's a lie I don't know.
It's not a change of heart but merely a reply to Two-Tone-Blue about his comment about the successful operation at LGW. Apparently it's not that successful if crew down there are struggling, is it?
1/ You don't care about others
2/ You want to destroy BA and WW
3/ You don't give a damn about LGW
4/ You are wealthy enough not to worry if you lose your job
5/ The tax rise means nothing to you, why should you worry
Why the change of heart? Or are you continuing to change what you say to suit you?
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The level of delusion demonstrated here is simply breathtaking.
Do you reallythink that BASSA need any help from WW to be seen by all other BA employees, the media and the general (not to mention travelling) public as "bad guys"?
Do you reallythink that BASSA need any help from WW to be seen by all other BA employees, the media and the general (not to mention travelling) public as "bad guys"?
Take for example WW and his statement about seniors earning £54.000 and juniors earning £35.000 and crew at Virgin Atlantic earning £14.400. That's definitely to turn the public against us when it's not actually accurate.
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Response to Miss M
Miss M
1/ You don't care about others
Yes, I do. It is the stated aim of Bassa to destroy BA and WW (refer to CC web site and many previous postings on PPRuNe). If you do care about others why are you supporting Bassa?
Quote:
2/ You want to destroy BA and WW
Did I ever say I wanted to destroy BA? That question should be asked to WW instead. Do you really want me to find those posts? Oh well, give me a while tomorrow. Also see point 1 above. You know they are there
Quote:
3/ You don't give a damn about LGW
I feel as much as for LGW as I do for LHR. Seeing as what has happened down at LGW I wouldn't want this to happen at LHR. This is not what you have previously stated
Quote:
4/ You are wealthy enough not to worry if you lose your job
Have you seen my bank account? But what was it you said?
Quote:
5/ The tax rise means nothing to you, why should you worry
The rax rise isn't that much and especially not as most crew have been given an increment this year. I won't deny that BASSA probably could have dealt with it better. I heard today that they had a meeting with them in November and hadn't heard anything from them since until a couple of days ago. Whether that's a lie I don't know. Maybe for you the tax rise is small. For others this is not true. Shows you don't think very much
Quote:
Why the change of heart? Or are you continuing to change what you say to suit you?
It's not a change of heart but merely a reply to Two-Tone-Blue about his comment about the successful operation at LGW. Apparently it's not that successful if crew down there are struggling, is it?
But crew would not be struggling if it weren't for the incompetence of Bassa who are being paid an arm and a leg by loads of people to seemingly look after the rich few at LHR
1/ You don't care about others
Yes, I do. It is the stated aim of Bassa to destroy BA and WW (refer to CC web site and many previous postings on PPRuNe). If you do care about others why are you supporting Bassa?
Quote:
2/ You want to destroy BA and WW
Did I ever say I wanted to destroy BA? That question should be asked to WW instead. Do you really want me to find those posts? Oh well, give me a while tomorrow. Also see point 1 above. You know they are there
Quote:
3/ You don't give a damn about LGW
I feel as much as for LGW as I do for LHR. Seeing as what has happened down at LGW I wouldn't want this to happen at LHR. This is not what you have previously stated
Quote:
4/ You are wealthy enough not to worry if you lose your job
Have you seen my bank account? But what was it you said?
Quote:
5/ The tax rise means nothing to you, why should you worry
The rax rise isn't that much and especially not as most crew have been given an increment this year. I won't deny that BASSA probably could have dealt with it better. I heard today that they had a meeting with them in November and hadn't heard anything from them since until a couple of days ago. Whether that's a lie I don't know. Maybe for you the tax rise is small. For others this is not true. Shows you don't think very much
Quote:
Why the change of heart? Or are you continuing to change what you say to suit you?
It's not a change of heart but merely a reply to Two-Tone-Blue about his comment about the successful operation at LGW. Apparently it's not that successful if crew down there are struggling, is it?
But crew would not be struggling if it weren't for the incompetence of Bassa who are being paid an arm and a leg by loads of people to seemingly look after the rich few at LHR
Last edited by hval; 18th Jan 2010 at 20:24.
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I've just checked EU-OPS 1 Appendix 1 to OPS1.005 which states the requirements for initial training of cabin crew.
As I did the full medical stuff back when I joined I'll just have to do a first aid refresher, some stuff on passenger handling and er....that's it legally.
The company will probably want me to do aircraft specific training, but I know where most SEP kit is already and can make a pot of tea, so 2 days tops.
I've already volunteered and look forward to being guided by Tiramisu, HiFlyer etc
As I did the full medical stuff back when I joined I'll just have to do a first aid refresher, some stuff on passenger handling and er....that's it legally.
The company will probably want me to do aircraft specific training, but I know where most SEP kit is already and can make a pot of tea, so 2 days tops.
I've already volunteered and look forward to being guided by Tiramisu, HiFlyer etc
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It's not a delusion!
Take for example WW and his statement about seniors earning £54.000 and juniors earning £35.000 and crew at Virgin Atlantic earning £14.400. That's definitely to turn the public against us when it's not actually accurate.
Take for example WW and his statement about seniors earning £54.000 and juniors earning £35.000 and crew at Virgin Atlantic earning £14.400. That's definitely to turn the public against us when it's not actually accurate.
Not sure of your point but it is fact (verifiable by a quick look at the CAA website) that BA cabin crew on average (you do understand what an average is, don't you?) earn twice what Virgin cabin crew earn.
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I'm in!!!
I've just emailled my manager to volunteer BUT with 2 pre-conditions: -
1. I wear my pilots uniform in the cabin - I want the passengers to know that I'm there to keep their holiday plans in tact and that the striking CC are being dealt with.
2. That striking crew are SACKED or only allowed to return under 'NEW FLEET' contracts - It's pointless to go through all this unless some MAJOR cultural change is achieved within the airline.
1. I wear my pilots uniform in the cabin - I want the passengers to know that I'm there to keep their holiday plans in tact and that the striking CC are being dealt with.
2. That striking crew are SACKED or only allowed to return under 'NEW FLEET' contracts - It's pointless to go through all this unless some MAJOR cultural change is achieved within the airline.
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Just been watching Sky News with their business editor saying that 'BA cabin crew are collectively jumping over the cliff, and earning on average 50% more than the next best earners Easyjet'.
Looks like the PR battle is already being lost. Just waiting now for the Bassa video to deliver the self-inflicted coup-de-grace.
Anyone know if it's still going to be produced?
Looks like the PR battle is already being lost. Just waiting now for the Bassa video to deliver the self-inflicted coup-de-grace.
Anyone know if it's still going to be produced?
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1. I wear my pilots uniform in the cabin - I want the passengers to know that I'm there to keep their holiday plans in tact and that the striking CC are being dealt with.
2. That striking crew are SACKED or only allowed to return under 'NEW FLEET' contracts - It's pointless to go through all this unless some MAJOR cultural change is achieved within the airline
2. That striking crew are SACKED or only allowed to return under 'NEW FLEET' contracts - It's pointless to go through all this unless some MAJOR cultural change is achieved within the airline
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Jockster and GearUp,
Thanks for volunteering, but I doubt that management will agree with your #2 point. This comes under employment law and is a big one.
I don't see why you wouldn't be able to wear your pilot's uniform, as I'm not sure if either of you have the legs for the skirt
. No hat though, please...
Gg
Thanks for volunteering, but I doubt that management will agree with your #2 point. This comes under employment law and is a big one.
I don't see why you wouldn't be able to wear your pilot's uniform, as I'm not sure if either of you have the legs for the skirt
. No hat though, please... Gg
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Then they won't use you will they? It's up to you really, but you can't make stipulations like that.
If it helps destroy the cancer that BASSA represent within BA then it will be worth it.
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I'm in...
9 Day BKK/SYD will do me fine, and I just checked my CRC (from when I was cabin crew) and it's only at Basic Disclosure level.
You only need an enhanced check if you are in sole charge of children or vulnerable adults.
The big question is when my ballot paper arrives again (I only left crew two years ago), do I vote yes so I can spend a week flying around? Perhaps I should ask for advice on the BASSA forum as I still have access to that?
You only need an enhanced check if you are in sole charge of children or vulnerable adults.
The big question is when my ballot paper arrives again (I only left crew two years ago), do I vote yes so I can spend a week flying around? Perhaps I should ask for advice on the BASSA forum as I still have access to that?
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luddites
As former crew i cant believe my colleagues are being taken in by this bunch of Luddites (unite) and help you lot ruin what we all worked so hard to create in previous years.
Bottom line guys good days are over time to change or go the way of Pan Am and others! Alternatively, let Willie put the airline into andministration and have to re-apply under new contracts which you wont want i`m sure.
Have BASSA ever told you what their proposals to BA were? Historically they have always said they had alternatives but never said what they were. DId you know they never signed the Long Range Agreement saying it wasn`t good enough? But NEVER said if they had an alternative I suspect the same here. Please enlighten me/us as to BASSA alternatives to the companies proposals
As i see it you will maintain your current salaries but loose out on earnings on Long Range routes that will be crewed by the new fleets. Promotion opportunities will return to the ``dead mans shoes`` days of old unless you move to the new fleet so your decision!
I have flown a lot recently on my concessions and i`ll tell you not all of you are as good as you think you are , from the lack of knowledge of routines and standards to the very much lack of intereaction with your customers. When i travel i ask for nothing but the basics and i will tell you that was mainly all i got, if that!!
It seems BASSA did not do the best of jobs re tax on allowances as well but I have to say that too many tend to make the mistake of living on max earnings (mortgage/car/loans/credit cards etc) so that any drop in earnings is not sustainable.
There is no public sympathy here! Your salaries versus the competitors ( whom there are plenty who can beat BA both in cost and service on nearly all routes)are well publicised and the timing of these strikes is lamentable and guaranteed to alienate the travelling public who, i will remind you, actually pay the wages!!!! This action should you vote to take it will be irreperable for the company in it`s current form. You should bear that in mind!!!
Pin Lever I might even come out of retirement too tho Ill go for the 5 day singapore please!
Bottom line guys good days are over time to change or go the way of Pan Am and others! Alternatively, let Willie put the airline into andministration and have to re-apply under new contracts which you wont want i`m sure.
Have BASSA ever told you what their proposals to BA were? Historically they have always said they had alternatives but never said what they were. DId you know they never signed the Long Range Agreement saying it wasn`t good enough? But NEVER said if they had an alternative I suspect the same here. Please enlighten me/us as to BASSA alternatives to the companies proposals
As i see it you will maintain your current salaries but loose out on earnings on Long Range routes that will be crewed by the new fleets. Promotion opportunities will return to the ``dead mans shoes`` days of old unless you move to the new fleet so your decision!
I have flown a lot recently on my concessions and i`ll tell you not all of you are as good as you think you are , from the lack of knowledge of routines and standards to the very much lack of intereaction with your customers. When i travel i ask for nothing but the basics and i will tell you that was mainly all i got, if that!!
It seems BASSA did not do the best of jobs re tax on allowances as well but I have to say that too many tend to make the mistake of living on max earnings (mortgage/car/loans/credit cards etc) so that any drop in earnings is not sustainable.
There is no public sympathy here! Your salaries versus the competitors ( whom there are plenty who can beat BA both in cost and service on nearly all routes)are well publicised and the timing of these strikes is lamentable and guaranteed to alienate the travelling public who, i will remind you, actually pay the wages!!!! This action should you vote to take it will be irreperable for the company in it`s current form. You should bear that in mind!!!
Pin Lever I might even come out of retirement too tho Ill go for the 5 day singapore please!