British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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What Unite, BASSA and their myopic PR department have totally failed to understand is that even if ALL of those who balloted yes last time vote again they are still less than 25% of the company.
Less than 1 in 4, more like 1 in 5 that have the desire to 'bring the company down'. In truth there is probably (sorry, not written down, no proof, just my personal assumption) less than 10% of that number who are so suicidal.
How many of the original voters were duped by BASSA/Unite into voting on the future potential of New Fleet? How well was the campaign run to ensure that those voting were aware that the vote was purely over imposition? What the real world result would have been can only be speculation again but I would be fairly sure that the 'yes' vote would have been considerably smaller.
As to the 'imposition', what choice was BA left with? For once the other Unions made it perfectly clear that they would no longer carry the intransigent Cabin Crew Union by applying clauses to their agreements that meant they would only be action if ALL Unions were toeing the line. BA assured those Unions that would be the case. BASSA had more time and opportunity to get their house in order and negotiate than any other Union. They admitted at the start that productivity increases were both needed and essential. Then they dived off down the 'temporary solutions for temporary problems' rabbit hole. Refused to accept independent financial advice on the state of the global economy and the company as a whole. According to BASSA from November last year the premium passengers should be flowing through the doors of T5 by now and the financial future should be glowing rosy. Reality paints a somewhat different picture, especially for those in JAL, Aer Lingus, BMI, Globespan etc. Where is their 'secure' future now?
BASSA did what it always did, stonewalled and hoped that BA would give in and go away. What BASSA has failed to grasp is the feeling of resentment from the other groups and Unions at BA towards the lack of negotiation and the demands that BASSA be treated differently. Time is up.
As to the militant minority within BASSA who would rather see the company brought down under the tenure of Willie Walsh. Leave. If you dislike it so much then vote with your feet. If the conditions working 1 or 2 down under the evil imposition are so tortuous then I am sure BA will have great difficulty replacing you.
Willie Walsh is doing his job. His job is not to 'luuurve' up to the Cabin Crew in the same way that CRM isn't 'Cuddly Reassuring Manner'. He doesn't even require to see you as 'individuals', he receives briefings from your managers as to the financial viability, costings and productivity as a group. Exactly as he receives the same about all other departments. He then makes BUSINESS decisions based upon that data. His responsibilities are to ensure that the company has a marketable, competitive product, a sustainable cost base and remains an investment vehicle for the stock market. He does that for the Board of Directors, the customer and the Investors. Not for the comfort of the Cabin Crew. Just because he is finally tackling the thorny subject of 1980's T's & C's that no other CEO in the past hasn't had the balls to do doesn't make him an evil CEO. In fact looking at the run of the share price following the announcements yesterday I would suggest that he has hit the investors sweet spot.
The reaction of all other staff to his 'volunteer' idea should show Unite the strength of feeling within the rest of BA, the 30,000 other employees who have accepted change, who have negotiated and don't want an idiotic Union led by muppets like Tony Woodly who have no vested interest in the company itself, from destroying BA.
So, to sum up, if BA will be so bad to work for under the imposition (taken as a last resort) then walk away. Let those of us who are 'foolish' enough to accept change soldier on in out idiocy. This entire scenario is not aimed at Cabin Crew individually. Most Cabin Crew, in my humble opinion, do a fantastic job, especially when faced with the chaos of the weather and sitting on aircraft for hours waiting for De-Icing. This scenario is aimed squarely at those who sit at the top of BASSA and Unite and don't give a damn about the individuals they just want to retain their death grip on power at BA and will use every trick in the book to achieve it.
P.S. The CAA minimum mandate for Cabin Crew training is 2 days which must include aircraft specific SEP and basic first aid AvMed.
Have a nice one. See you in the galley.
Less than 1 in 4, more like 1 in 5 that have the desire to 'bring the company down'. In truth there is probably (sorry, not written down, no proof, just my personal assumption) less than 10% of that number who are so suicidal.
How many of the original voters were duped by BASSA/Unite into voting on the future potential of New Fleet? How well was the campaign run to ensure that those voting were aware that the vote was purely over imposition? What the real world result would have been can only be speculation again but I would be fairly sure that the 'yes' vote would have been considerably smaller.
As to the 'imposition', what choice was BA left with? For once the other Unions made it perfectly clear that they would no longer carry the intransigent Cabin Crew Union by applying clauses to their agreements that meant they would only be action if ALL Unions were toeing the line. BA assured those Unions that would be the case. BASSA had more time and opportunity to get their house in order and negotiate than any other Union. They admitted at the start that productivity increases were both needed and essential. Then they dived off down the 'temporary solutions for temporary problems' rabbit hole. Refused to accept independent financial advice on the state of the global economy and the company as a whole. According to BASSA from November last year the premium passengers should be flowing through the doors of T5 by now and the financial future should be glowing rosy. Reality paints a somewhat different picture, especially for those in JAL, Aer Lingus, BMI, Globespan etc. Where is their 'secure' future now?
BASSA did what it always did, stonewalled and hoped that BA would give in and go away. What BASSA has failed to grasp is the feeling of resentment from the other groups and Unions at BA towards the lack of negotiation and the demands that BASSA be treated differently. Time is up.
As to the militant minority within BASSA who would rather see the company brought down under the tenure of Willie Walsh. Leave. If you dislike it so much then vote with your feet. If the conditions working 1 or 2 down under the evil imposition are so tortuous then I am sure BA will have great difficulty replacing you.
Willie Walsh is doing his job. His job is not to 'luuurve' up to the Cabin Crew in the same way that CRM isn't 'Cuddly Reassuring Manner'. He doesn't even require to see you as 'individuals', he receives briefings from your managers as to the financial viability, costings and productivity as a group. Exactly as he receives the same about all other departments. He then makes BUSINESS decisions based upon that data. His responsibilities are to ensure that the company has a marketable, competitive product, a sustainable cost base and remains an investment vehicle for the stock market. He does that for the Board of Directors, the customer and the Investors. Not for the comfort of the Cabin Crew. Just because he is finally tackling the thorny subject of 1980's T's & C's that no other CEO in the past hasn't had the balls to do doesn't make him an evil CEO. In fact looking at the run of the share price following the announcements yesterday I would suggest that he has hit the investors sweet spot.
The reaction of all other staff to his 'volunteer' idea should show Unite the strength of feeling within the rest of BA, the 30,000 other employees who have accepted change, who have negotiated and don't want an idiotic Union led by muppets like Tony Woodly who have no vested interest in the company itself, from destroying BA.
So, to sum up, if BA will be so bad to work for under the imposition (taken as a last resort) then walk away. Let those of us who are 'foolish' enough to accept change soldier on in out idiocy. This entire scenario is not aimed at Cabin Crew individually. Most Cabin Crew, in my humble opinion, do a fantastic job, especially when faced with the chaos of the weather and sitting on aircraft for hours waiting for De-Icing. This scenario is aimed squarely at those who sit at the top of BASSA and Unite and don't give a damn about the individuals they just want to retain their death grip on power at BA and will use every trick in the book to achieve it.
P.S. The CAA minimum mandate for Cabin Crew training is 2 days which must include aircraft specific SEP and basic first aid AvMed.
Have a nice one. See you in the galley.
Last edited by wobble2plank; 19th Jan 2010 at 09:36.
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Game over...
Oooooh deeaar!
BASSA have sown the wind and will shortly reap the whirlwind. The lack of support for this action amongst the 80% of employees who are NOT in the BASSA bubble is palpable. Those same employees will now get the opportunity to show their displeasure by volunteering to train as cc. And they will volunteer - in droves.
It will take 2 working days to meet minimum competency requirements, eloquent comment on the "demands" of the "rigorous" training that is required. Many of them will then, I sincerely hope, get the chance to fly some of our routes and get a taste of the lifestyle our current cc find SOOO disagreeable.
I don't think there will be many jobs left for those foolish enough to actually go on strike. But then most probably won't, will they?
BASSA have sown the wind and will shortly reap the whirlwind. The lack of support for this action amongst the 80% of employees who are NOT in the BASSA bubble is palpable. Those same employees will now get the opportunity to show their displeasure by volunteering to train as cc. And they will volunteer - in droves.
It will take 2 working days to meet minimum competency requirements, eloquent comment on the "demands" of the "rigorous" training that is required. Many of them will then, I sincerely hope, get the chance to fly some of our routes and get a taste of the lifestyle our current cc find SOOO disagreeable.
I don't think there will be many jobs left for those foolish enough to actually go on strike. But then most probably won't, will they?
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Good'ay Henkybaby
He also demonstrates that the job of FA can be learned in two weeks...
Two weeks would be enough time for mandatory training, safety/medical but would not include any customer service input.
Our new cabin crew spend over half of their initial training in customer service and then are assessed during there first 6 months of flying on all aspects of their new role.
My experience is that you learn mandatory training quickly, although it is updated regularly. Looking after customers and appropriately dealing with their needs is a constant learning experience. (The demographic on just one flight normally includes all age groups, many different religions and cultures, dietary needs, families, people travelling for holiday, business, sad reasons, never flown before, new immigrants, very nervous travellers, frequent flyers, VIP's, children travelling on their own, people who speak different languages etc).
It's a very special skill to be able to relate to all of these people, a lot of people don't have it. Being able to form and work with a unique team each time you fly also requires a certain type of individual.
Our cabin crew are very talented, they naturally undertake caring for all the people I have mentioned and ensure their well being and safety everytime.
Right now we are in unchartered waters, asking for volunteers to work along side current crew gives our customers and operation more certainty.
Those who volunteer will be very welcome, other posters have already said similar.
If it does come to that, I think it'll be a great opportunity to get to know others in the BA family and appreciate what we ALL do to contribute to its longterm success and at the moment getting it through a very difficult time.
I think that's the only goal in all of this.
(My thoughts only, they do not represent my employer or any other party)
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Idiots....
DeeCeeThree,
In your post of 21 dec 2009 (which I will not take up space quoting if you don't mind) you came across to me as being a little bit cross.
You refered to BASSA as "idiots" because they cannot, apparently, read a spreadsheet given to them by BA listing the crew set to leave the company under the VR scheme November / December 2009.
I left BA under this same VR scheme on 30/11/09 and I am still receiving texts from BA telling me to "plan your journey to work during adverse weather", "list yourself as willing to work" and "volunteer to work in the terminals during disruption caused by the snow".
Is one to assume from the tone of your retorts that the people who authorise these comms are also idiots?
In your post of 21 dec 2009 (which I will not take up space quoting if you don't mind) you came across to me as being a little bit cross.
You refered to BASSA as "idiots" because they cannot, apparently, read a spreadsheet given to them by BA listing the crew set to leave the company under the VR scheme November / December 2009.
I left BA under this same VR scheme on 30/11/09 and I am still receiving texts from BA telling me to "plan your journey to work during adverse weather", "list yourself as willing to work" and "volunteer to work in the terminals during disruption caused by the snow".
Is one to assume from the tone of your retorts that the people who authorise these comms are also idiots?
Last edited by doors2womanual; 19th Jan 2010 at 10:10. Reason: to include details of the original author's posting
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You refer to BASSA as idiots because they cannot, apparently, read a spreadsheet given to them by BA listing the crew set to leave the company under the VR scheme November / December 2009.
Two of the main reasons they lost the case due to not making a "reasonable" effort to ensure that those ineligible to vote were excluded.
Hope that clarifies things.
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Keeping it Real
For those who choose to stick their fingers in their ears and live in a bubble.
This morning JAL, Asia's largest carrier has filed for bankruptcy protection.
15,000 people, (one third of employees) are expected to lose their jobs after one of Japan's biggest corporate failures.
Need I say more
This morning JAL, Asia's largest carrier has filed for bankruptcy protection.
15,000 people, (one third of employees) are expected to lose their jobs after one of Japan's biggest corporate failures.
Need I say more
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Thank you for responding on behalf of DeeCeeThree Desertia with the royal "we".
You (in the plural sense, of course) choose to ignore the point that I make in my posting.
Maybe I am not making myself clear. The department responsible for communicating information to Cabin Crew does not yet know who has left the company.
You (in the plural sense, of course) choose to ignore the point that I make in my posting.
Maybe I am not making myself clear. The department responsible for communicating information to Cabin Crew does not yet know who has left the company.
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The department knows who has left (they're not paying these people, are they?). They just don't care whether you get text messages or not because it costs them more money to update the list than to send people texts.
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I see from the BA website that passengers are being placed first.
Cabin Crew Strike Ballot - Updated 12:40 on 18 Jan
If Unite eventually proceeds to an actual strike, we will continue to put our customers' interests first. We will provide assistance for those crew who wish to work normally and we will explore all options to enable us to operate the best flying programme possible under the circumstances.
We will not allow Unite to ruin this airline - and we believe we have the support of our customers and the vast majority of our colleagues in that objective.
We will not allow Unite to ruin this airline - and we believe we have the support of our customers and the vast majority of our colleagues in that objective.
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Just joined up and can't work out how to "quote". Can anyone help?
Just wanted to respond to the line of thinking that is "anyone can do the job of cabin crew and crew should get over themselves" so-to-speak...
Yes, the training from a customer service perspective can be done in 5 days and has been in the past when need has arisen. The SEP side cannot, however, be curtailed and is around 8-9 days if you are talking 2-3 aircraft types. I guess 2-3 days is, therefore, the basic time required to train someone up on a single aircraft.
So let's say training could be done in 7 days.... It could be less depending on how many of these bolt-ons are obligatory: Av med, defib training, manual handling, data protection, food hygiene, dangerous goods, restraint training, diversity in the workplace...
You could be wearing that pin-stripe suit in a week from today!!
If you are talking about literally putting "cardboard-cut-out-crew" on board to get the flights from A to B, I would say it is doable. And I believe that this is what BA is hoping to do.
The "experience" side is, of course, something that comes with "experience"! Just like being a good pilot. Many of the personality traits required to excel at the job of cabin crew are inherent, just like many of the personality traits required of flight crew.
Personally, some of the best pilots I have ever flown with have worked as Cabin Crew in a previous life. If you fancy it why not give it a go!! Could be quite an eye-opener!
Just wanted to respond to the line of thinking that is "anyone can do the job of cabin crew and crew should get over themselves" so-to-speak...
Yes, the training from a customer service perspective can be done in 5 days and has been in the past when need has arisen. The SEP side cannot, however, be curtailed and is around 8-9 days if you are talking 2-3 aircraft types. I guess 2-3 days is, therefore, the basic time required to train someone up on a single aircraft.
So let's say training could be done in 7 days.... It could be less depending on how many of these bolt-ons are obligatory: Av med, defib training, manual handling, data protection, food hygiene, dangerous goods, restraint training, diversity in the workplace...
You could be wearing that pin-stripe suit in a week from today!!
If you are talking about literally putting "cardboard-cut-out-crew" on board to get the flights from A to B, I would say it is doable. And I believe that this is what BA is hoping to do.
The "experience" side is, of course, something that comes with "experience"! Just like being a good pilot. Many of the personality traits required to excel at the job of cabin crew are inherent, just like many of the personality traits required of flight crew.
Personally, some of the best pilots I have ever flown with have worked as Cabin Crew in a previous life. If you fancy it why not give it a go!! Could be quite an eye-opener!
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Wobble2Plank
Willie Walsh is doing his job. His job is not to 'luuurve' up to the Cabin Crew in the same way that CRM isn't 'Cuddly Reassuring Manner'. He doesn't even require to see you as 'individuals', he receives briefings from your managers as to the financial viability, costings and productivity as a group. Exactly as he receives the same about all other departments. He then makes BUSINESS decisions based upon that data. His responsibilities are to ensure that the company has a marketable, competitive product, a sustainable cost base and remains an investment vehicle for the stock market. He does that for the Board of Directors, the customer and the Investors. Not for the comfort of the Cabin Crew. Just because he is finally tackling the thorny subject of 1980's T's & C's that no other CEO in the past hasn't had the balls to do doesn't make him an evil CEO. In fact looking at the run of the share price following the announcements yesterday I would suggest that he has hit the investors sweet spot.
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Just received a communication from our Director of Flt Ops.
I won't reproduce it here, but for those who think BA aren't serious about using volunteers to crew their aircraft for the duration of a strike (Miss M, AL), I can assure you that you're wrong.
BA are very serious.
First course (duration 3 days) to retrain/refresh pilots to be temporary CC - 25th January.
As a captain, I will be volunteering.
I will happily work under the SCCM and will do everything that they instruct me to do to the very best of my ability.
I won't reproduce it here, but for those who think BA aren't serious about using volunteers to crew their aircraft for the duration of a strike (Miss M, AL), I can assure you that you're wrong.
BA are very serious.
First course (duration 3 days) to retrain/refresh pilots to be temporary CC - 25th January.
As a captain, I will be volunteering.
I will happily work under the SCCM and will do everything that they instruct me to do to the very best of my ability.
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I must admit that I'm quite quite astonished by the attitude of those of you who will train to be cc, doing whatever they can to keep things going. Despite what w2plank correctly says, I certainly hope that WW sees & appreciates the dedication you lot are showing. It's fantastic.
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Just a reminder for all of you why we are in this sorry mess
I shall be volunteering to protect my future, because if I don't I/we all will be on the dole cue.
I shall be volunteering to protect my future, because if I don't I/we all will be on the dole cue.
Last edited by Right Engine; 19th Jan 2010 at 12:47.
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I've just heard that a 1,000 staff across the airline have volunteered so far.
As a CSD, I will be delighted to lead all those who volunteer to fly with me to the best of my ability. You have my undivided support.
Thank You Captain Dave747436.
Clarified,
Your post #2331, well said and an excellent post.
A plea to BASSA/UNITE.
Please get back to the table and start talking and negotiating again. You are taking us all too the point of no return. It is not too late. Many of our crew are telling me that they'll vote Yes but they will not Strike, leaving you without the support you expect regardless of the votes.
Please don't take us down the roads of JAL, and other airlines that have gone bust.
I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above represent my personal views and not those of BA.
As a CSD, I will be delighted to lead all those who volunteer to fly with me to the best of my ability. You have my undivided support.
Thank You Captain Dave747436.
Clarified,
Your post #2331, well said and an excellent post.
A plea to BASSA/UNITE.
Please get back to the table and start talking and negotiating again. You are taking us all too the point of no return. It is not too late. Many of our crew are telling me that they'll vote Yes but they will not Strike, leaving you without the support you expect regardless of the votes.
Please don't take us down the roads of JAL, and other airlines that have gone bust.
I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above represent my personal views and not those of BA.
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Taking into account my user name I find the following quote quite apt.
The words "Après moi le deluge" have come to epitomise the psychology of those who ruin people and the earth with no thought for tomorrow.
The words "Après moi le deluge" have come to epitomise the psychology of those who ruin people and the earth with no thought for tomorrow.
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History always repeats itself
" Our determination to resist a strike emboldened the ordinary trade unionist to defy the militants. What the strike's defeat established was that Britain could not be made ungovernable by the Fascist Left. Marxists wanted to defy the law of the land in order to defy the laws of economics. They failed, and in doing so demonstrated just how mutually dependent the free economy & a free society really are. It is a lesson no one should forget. "
So wrote Margaret Thatcher after the end of the miners' strike in 1985.
Whilst I'm not suggesting that Bassa are intent on defying the law, this time, I think you'll all agree that the rest still applies.
So wrote Margaret Thatcher after the end of the miners' strike in 1985.
Whilst I'm not suggesting that Bassa are intent on defying the law, this time, I think you'll all agree that the rest still applies.