British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V

[SlideBustle]

All those people getting hysterical about how it will be ''unsafe'' really need a reality check.

If the aircraft was staffed with 100% inexperienced staff on their first day flying then yes, I could understand the worries certainly! But fact is they will staff half of the aircraft with experienced crew (the most junior crew online have been here around a year or two now so more than experienced enough!) plus the volunteers. I sort of see the volunteers as a ''top up'' if you like. There will probably be some cancelled flights HOWEVER if their may be say 8000 crew (volunteers and experienced crew) then that is more than half we have already - also their may be a higher percentage who are full time - all volunteers will be full time I assume.

With regards to SEP and ''OMG what will happen if there was an evacuation'' - good point but if you read WW email it says ''volunteer to train as cabin crew. So they will be given a SEP/AVMED course that covers everything and have the relevant practical and electronic assessments. Like I said there will be half experienced crew who are already safe and used to flying and SEP so what is the problem?

The only obsticle I can find, is alot of SEP/Avmed instructors are crew - there will be a few that will refuse I bet! However having said that there will be a few SEP trainers who probably wouldn't mind (some may be non-strikers anyway!) Plus you have the non-flying SEP instructors who are obviously not involved in this so will have to train so it probably will go ahead....

Unlike the strike hopefully.... think this is a good move as will keep the operation and business ticking as much as possible and if he publicises it less people will be put off booking - however still.... if there is a strike there will be a hostile working environment for everyone incl. volunteers and the business will still be affected.

[La Pouquelaye]

BA always wins any media war simply because passengers need to get to their destinations.

There is no "media war" here, but you have already lost any possible sympathy from the flying public because of the threatened Christmas strike. The threat of a further strike inherent in a decision to declare another strike will really kill off any support at all for you and your mates.

I can't actually think of any cabin crew strike which has had a 100% public support.

I can't think of any public support for a cabin crew strike that was deliberately timed to cause as much inconvenience to as many people as possible at the worst time of the year. One hundred per cent support? You will ber lucky to get even one per cent support from the people whose plans you have blighted.

Most of us know that UNITE receives a lot of membership fees every month and many also think that UNITE should get on with contacting the media and get their side of the story published.

Rest assured that a main headline in all tomorrow's newspapers, and in every radio and television news bulletin will feature the s*** bulletin from your oh-so-sophisticated union. Miss Lala's clumsy retraction won't feature; she cannot swallow words already published by the BASSA propaganda machine.

Maybe UNITE is acting too late.

Now you tell us! Unite/BASSA/Amicus (perm any one out of three) has been on the back foot since the last visit to the High Court.

As I have said in previous posts I don't always agree with everything they are doing. The last ballot last year was a huge fiasco and it's not the first time BASSA has made a mistake.

It's a bit late to tell us that now, MissM. And clearly BASSA just can not or will not learn from its mistakes. Your union bosses don't care a flying fig about you; it's their own livelihoods and their Calfornia condominiums they lose sleep over. And why does the membership continue to support a union that continues to make mistake after mistake after mistake? You can't all be that stupid.

I don't want to strike

Really? You have been one of the most militant, pro-strike and anti-BA contributors to this thread.

the thought of possibly doing it is sickening to say the least. It would be a great relief if BA and UNITE could come to an agreement tonight or tomorrow.

At last something sensible and constructive from MissM.

[midman]

Originally Posted by MissM

I don't want to strike and the thought of possibly doing it is sickening to say the least. It would be a great relief if BA and UNITE could come to an agreement tonight or tomorrow.

MissM you don't have to strike. Only strike if you want to. Of course BA and the union will come to an agreement, but don't think it will look anything like what Bassa rejected last year. Bassa look weak and in disarray. Settle now with what's proposed and cut your losses.

Bassa loved to say it's not over till the galley girl sings. Well we can hear the orchestra warming up, and they're not playing her tune.

[ottergirl]

Well this forum has livened up a bit!

only obsticle (sic)I can find, is alot of SEP/Avmed instructors are crew

Add to that the lack of capacity in the SEP hall, pool time, resusci Annie dolls, fire rigs, classrooms, logistical nightmare. Our operation in training struggles to cope when we have 4 classes of NE crew, no way can we get several thousand through in five weeks! Cancel recency checks and a couple of classes a day will be about manageable with good will of training teams. Airside passes and uniform issue will further trip up the plan. (Crew have to be recognisable in the event of an evacuation.)

A few hundred tops I reckon! Should be an interesting few days on the line; I'll be dining out on the stories of these flights for months.

[MissM]

Clarified

Frankly I don't think this is serious but if it is I do wish all of those volunteers good luck with their training and hope that they will enjoy their trips.

midman

What would the alternative be? Surrender and allow BA to do whatever they want to us? What would their next imposition be?

[MissM]

La Pouqelaye

I would say that there is a media war to get public support. At least there was and I won't deny that UNITE didn't do very much last year and BA did everything they could to get the public on their side which they very much succeeded with.

I don't agree with the choice of word which they chose to use in their newsletter even though the meaning of the word is accurate to what these volunteers are.

I know that I am one of the most militant, pro-strike and anti-BA contributors on this thread but it doesn't mean I don't want this dispute to be resolved because I DO and the best thing would be to avoid a strike. Read my previous posts and you will see that I have on a numerous occassions said that I would wish BA and UNITE to come to an agreement today.

[Glamgirl]

Lurker,

I am a potential member who has asked you a very genuine question on two occasions - if you wish to represent myself and other members of the Cabin Crew community in discussions with BA management on our terms and conditions, then don't you feel you should at least have the common courtesy to answer that question?

Nobody asked you to step forward and carry the banner for the 'PCCC' - you did that off your own back and at the very first question you are asked you deem yourself above answering the likes of myself.

Or are you 'excluding' me from joining? (another question I would like an answer to)

I await your reply

You've been mocking the PCCC ever since we started talking about it. It is not our intention to "exclude" anyone from joining at all. However, if you were really interested, you would've contacted myself via pm or similar.

Why on earth do you want me to tell you our negotiating strategy on this forum? I'm in no way deeming myself above anyone else, that's just a childish comment from you.

Keep in mind that over several months I've asked you a whole variety of questions, which you have refused to answer (mostly by ignoring them).

If you are genuinely interested in becoming a member, please do get in touch with Highflier14, Tiramisu or myself via pm.

Gg

[Papillon]

I am a potential member who has asked you a very genuine question on two occasions - if you wish to represent myself and other members of the Cabin Crew community in discussions with BA management on our terms and conditions, then don't you feel you should at least have the common courtesy to answer that question?

On a public forum? Well, I guess when BASSA opens up it's internal discussions for all to see, then you might be able to legitimately ask that.

[Albert Salmon]

Unite/BASSA/Amicus (perm any one out of three) has been on the back foot since the last visit to the High Court.

To say nothing about that crass and idiotic threat to the Judge, who was (allegedly) due to fly BA just before Christmas.

BTW, my company's travel department has made more than adequate arrangements for our £250k air travel budget for 2010. Other carriers were more than happy to accommodate us.

Actually, we owe a debt of gratitude to BASSA, really. You and your members made us realise that it was unwise of us to put all of our air travel eggs in one basket.

See you all shivering on the picket lines - and after that outside the JobCentres.

[Glamgirl]

The heavy heavy,

Thanks for volunteering, but here comes lesson 1 in being cc:

Customers, not "punters". Please.

Look forward to flying with you.

Gg

[the heavy heavy]

Glamgirl,

Sorry, I'll get the banter right, promise.

Looking forward to working with and learning from you.

We are all BA.

[TheGorrilla]

Maybe worth mentioning, Willy didn't say what the training package involved. If he means a complete cabin crew ab-initio package?? Perhaps he's actually dropping a big hint here?

Sign a new contract in the process??

[ottergirl]

1. I wear my pilots uniform in the cabin - I want the passengers to know that I'm there to keep their holiday plans in tact and that the striking CC are being dealt with.

This is interesting. If you want the FULL experience then you would be better off in CC uniform. What are you afraid of Jockster?

[JayPee28bpr]

A Lurker #2240

"The Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, subsequently described Walsh's offer of an MBO as "[a time] when management wanted to steal the assets for themselves through a management buy out, shafting staff interests."

I think you'll find Bertie said this in the Dail (Parliament) and then declined to repeat it outside when not covered by Parliamentary privilege. He has since publicly acknowledged that he regrets having said it.

WW left EI in frustration. He presented a plan to the government (then 100% shareholder) to grow the airline based on expanding the fleet etc. That required investment, meaning privatisation as EU rules would have precluded more government investment. The government rejected the plan, primarily because the Unions were opposed to privatisation, and the Unions have very close links to Bertie's party, Fianna Fail.

Incidentally, EI announced a far more draconian cost cutting plan in December 2009 than anything WW ever planned there or is requesting at BA. It required the cutting of 25% of the entire workforce. The plan was supported by David Begg, General Secretary of the ICTU (Irish equivalent of the TUC), who is a government-nominated Director of EI. Perhaps you should invite him to talk to you at Unite's next mass meeting, and ask for his views of where BA stands relative to EI on matters such as job security, relative earnings of staff etc.

In the meantime, just keep in mind that there are several hundred fully trained EI cabin crew on the verge of redundancy just an hour's flying time from LHR, a number of whom even have US visas etc I would guess, given EI was developing a US network until recently. EI is also, apparently, scaling back its LGW base, so there are a few more crew there to transfer to BA if required. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there are enough recently released cabin crew from respected airlines across Europe to replace BA's entire cabin crew workforce if required. This really is not a good time to go on strike.

[Clarified]

The bottom line

Albert Salmon (a customer) said'

BTW, my company's travel department has made more than adequate arrangements for our £250k air travel budget for 2010. Other carriers were more than happy to accommodate us.

Actually, we owe a debt of gratitude to BASSA, really. You and your members made us realise that it was unwise of us to put all of our air travel eggs in one basket.

See you all shivering on the picket lines - and after that outside the JobCentres.

Your post highlights perfectly the reality of this situation, that's a huge amount of business for us to lose and driven by the threat of industrial action.

This should dispell any doubts posters have about whether BA are serious in crewing its aircraft with volunteers along side us.

[the heavy heavy]

I'm assuming jocksters like me, affraid of nothing and proud to get the opportunity to save the company from the clowns at bassa/unite. Like me im also guessing that he believes the customers, glamgirl I thank you, will appreciate seeing a mix of cc/pilots/engineers/ground staff doing everything they can to keep their travels plans alive.

All I want is a blue/White tie and a Vegas trip!

[Glamgirl]

The heavy heavy,

Excellent feedback reaction - you get a star for that. You may also have a blue, white and red tie, as we do like a bit of colour in the cabin.

How about a Caribbean trip? Some of our colleagues enjoy those very very much

You (and all the other volunteers) will have a great time, I'm sure, wherever you end up going. I can't wait to meet you all!

Gg

[davecr]

Adding my name to the list tomorrow - I will not let these s ruin my future.

If you had a valid point to fight, the company workforce would be on your side BASSA. Unfortunately, you seem to be the only ones not willing to do your bit.

Lets show BASSA how we all feel about the fact they're putting our jobs at stake.

PS. For the first time in years, there seems to be great comradery between departments within BA, all fighting this fight together. Something good seems to be coming from this mess after all! GO BA

[dns]

Strange that it's BA who are refusing to negotiate with UNITE, yet they're instead spending a huge amount of time and money coming up with insane ways to avoid getting round the table...

[davecr]

dns

Guess what, the time for negotiations is quickly coming to an end. BASSA stalled and stalled, and kept putting forward badly calculated cost savings packages (but of course it was audited by PWC, so why should you believe them? It's all a big conspiracy!) and unrealistic proposals.

BA had to act as Unite was unwilling to make concessions like the other departments - to a level which can be compared to other UK carriers. Just like the flight crew, who earn just about the same as Virgin flight crew per hour of work. Delaying any longer could have had disasterous consequences. The books will show you that. Not that you will believe them, though.