British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V

[Clarified]

Hello La Pouquelaye

I'll try and help a bit here, my words in italics

I am getting a little confused with all the argument, petty bickering and cross-debating on this thread.

As I see things, these are the reasons for BASSA demanding another strike:

· In November, BA reduced the number of cabin crew on long haul flights from 15 to 14 and introduced a two-year pay freeze from 2010.
BA had 1000 crew waiting to leave. These people leaving in conjuction with crew level reductions would start the long awaited money saving process.
BA had already waited for several months to try and reach agreement on crewing levels etc, these crew were originally planned to start leaving in Sept.
At the beginning of October, BA and the 2 parts of Unite, Amicus and BASSA met at ACAS to hold unconditional talks, they were not successful.
After 9 months of talking with no formal agreement BA desperately needed to start saving money and announced the crewing level changes. BA believes crewing levels do not form part of crew members individual contracts and therefore do not need union agreement. Unite disagree.
15 to 14 crew is the B747 aircraft there are reductions of mainly one crew member across fleets although there are a few which are different, or haven't changed.
I believe the salary freeze is 2009 to 2011, 75% of crew who are still moving up increment scales will get those rises despite the pay freeze, they are worth between 2% and 7% if think.

· The Unite union said this would hit passenger service, as well as the earnings and career prospects of cabin crew.
You'll have to ask our customers!
I understand Unite's concern re. future promotion, a topic for negotiation I think. The company is currently promoting a lot of new CSD's from the Purser grades and the medium term plan 3-5 years does include new aircraft and hopefully growth.

· The airline has also proposed new contracts for fresh recruits and newly-promoted staff. These include a single on-board management grade, no seniority, promotion on merit, and pay set at market rate plus 10%. This would still see new recruits paid significantly less than current staff, however.
I think your use of the word 'proposed' is significant. The impression I get from the communication around this New Fleet is that the company are very much open to talk about it and its impact.
It requires negotiation though. Earlier in the year the company agreed to BASSA's proposal to intergrate the new starters, this in itself then required discussion around slip patterns etc. as new starters would have shorter time down route. You couldn't have half the crew staying in LAX for 2 nights and half for 1 night.


· The plans for the changes were first presented to company workers and unanimously rejected at a mass meeting in July.
This is correct, however it was only those present that took this vote.

· The union said those measures were introduced in November and argues it should have been consulted because the changes are contractual. But BA disputes this and says it was not obliged to consult.


· The union applied for a High Court injunction to block the airline's plans but failed.


· However, it welcomed a decision that a full court hearing should examine the contractual issue. That hearing is scheduled to begin on 1 February.

· Union members said they would "unwillingly" work the new schedule but would still ballot for a strike.
We are not all in the union!




Hope this helps.


Fellow posters feel free to correct me if I have missed anything.

(I am an employee of BA, my comments in response to an earlier post. Does not represent my employer or any other party).

[Scouser1]

Or indeed from the current crop of VRs-still on unpaid leave here....

[Two-Tone-Blue]

It is getting funnier by the moment.

The interesting thing is that the militant CC have absolutely nothing of substance to offer - except self-interest.

Plucking the violin-strings of "safety" may just have been undone by the fact that LGW CC have been operating one down for 5 years. And, frankly, i would sooner have a part-time Flight Deck person looking after my safety than some of the militant CC I've seen here.

Reality time, folks. Which bit of "indispensable" applies to you? In reality, not in your over-inflated ego?

[Nutjob]

So 4000 volunteer CC last strike

More this time as faith in BASSA/ UNITE wanes and people realise that they WILL have to walk to walk (and face all the risks that come with it )

400 CC (Number confirmed, trust me) in a holding pool, SEP done, airside passes issued

Strike-breaking volunteers from across the airline. Miss M etc...... if they pass SEP, they ARE qualified. Maybe the CAA will send inspectors due to unusual nature of the training / recruitment. But if people pass, they're go, go, go.

More than enough to run the most profitable routes with an experienced CC / pilot / holding pool CC / other volunteer mix.

Truly the best day I've had in 2010. Wine glass full to celebrate.

[wiggy]

Sorry David S., run all that past us again.

[Finnster]

i think it will work just fine miss m the ac will not be staffed by all volunteers it will be a of cc and volunteers mix , get talking to the pax let them see other side of company , and as a licensed aircraft engineer i can manage the doors !

[GearUp CheerUp]

Maybe the BA crew/pilots out there should take a look at JPM Part A(2):


1.7.2

"Experienced" is defined as having 3 months operating experience as Cabin crew within the last 3 years. Half of the minimum required crew complement must have this level of experience.

Yes, and BA will either see to it that any flight is crewed with half the crew "experienced" or they will temporarily change the ruling. The rule was probably put there to ensure certain minimum standards of service but, as there wont be any service, it wont really make any difference.

Wake Up!

[MissM]

Strike-breaking volunteers from across the airline. Miss M etc...... if they pass SEP, they ARE qualified. Maybe the CAA will send inspectors due to unusual nature of the training / recruitment. But if people pass, they're go, go, go.

More than enough to run the most profitable routes with an experienced CC / pilot / holding pool CC / other volunteer mix.

Truly the best day I've had in 2010. Wine glass full to celebrate.

Well, in that case I wish you, and rest of the staff, a very pleasant trip!

[Papillon]

For what it's worth, as a potential passenger in the period covered by any strike, I wouldn't have the slightest hesitation in getting on board an aircraft that may be partly crewed by volunteers. To be honest, it actually makes me more inclined to book BA, to support those staff who are going the extra mile.

I may be typical, I may not, but it would be dangerous to assume that this volunteers programme is going to put people off travelling and booking. I suspect the opposite may be the case.

To those of you above who have already volunteered, well done!

[wiggy]

or they will temporarily change the ruling.

Yep, there's probably wriggle room..otherwise you'd never be able to set up a start up airline, and how would the first ever airline with Cabin crew been able to operate without them having experienced crew on the first flight......

[Nutjob]

David Stanier

Not sure where the (as I interpret it) aggressive attitude comes from, but I think you'll find that those whose ARE working / volunteering will be motivated, professional, respectful and overjoyed to be keeping BA afloat and working as a team; irrespective of their background.

You'll also find, whether you like it or not, that the Captain WILL be your boss on the aircraft. Legally! However, they are always professional and treat their crew with the utmost respect if you do the same to them. Treat people as you'd like to be treated yourself is my belief.

[GearUp CheerUp]

As an ex crew member we have been told that there will be courses but no dates. There is an issue about uniforms as we wont be able to get one and no time to train in first aid but the pilots will help us out with first aid.

We will be trained to open and close the doors. The trained cabin crew will be able to do the inflight service and we will reassure the customers. It should be a good jolly and I can not wait. We will only be doing doors as the pilots are creating now. What the pilots now need to know is that we are BA managers and will be managing the situation as required. I won't be taking any rubbish from cabin crew or pilots. I will be managing and that is it. We are managers volunteering and deserve the respect we are due.

Well, you might find that once on the aircraft the Captain will decide who takes any rubbish from who, or not, as the case may be.

I also think, you'll need to up the quality of your communication skills if you're to command much 'respect', sport.

[Bellerophon]

TopBunk

Would BA accept a volunteer from a 78-er?...I wouldn't mind helping out (even as an ex-pilot) as long as it didn't affect my VR payment!

Do you know, the very same thought was going through my mind! I wonder how many of the other 76 are thinking the same way?

Add in those pilots who are about to go in the next phase VR, and we could help crew a few aircraft at least.

I've got first dibs on working on the upper deck!


Best Regards

Bellerophon

[80P]

If pilots feel that they have sufficient flying hours available to be able to offer to work as cabin crew, do you think BA may look to reduce the number of pilots employed?

[MissM]

Two-Tone-Blue

Plucking the violin-strings of "safety" may just have been undone by the fact that LGW CC have been operating one down for 5 years. And, frankly, i would sooner have a part-time Flight Deck person looking after my safety than some of the militant CC I've seen here.

Maybe you would get Golden Ticket on your flight. He, assuming Golden Ticket is he, who didn't even know the correct order of Protection, Location, Water and Food (basics!). It's amusing when you think that the easiest way to remember it is to learn this this short phrase: Pilots Like Wet Fish.

For being a militant CC, do you think we are jeopardising safety? That's nothing but an insult.

[GearUp CheerUp]

If pilots feel that they have sufficient flying hours available to be able to offer to work as cabin crew, do you think BA may look to reduce the number of pilots employed?

Oh I doubt it very much. If you knew anything about BA pilots you would know that they already work very efficiently, either to approaching 900 hours in LH or to max duty hours in SH.

Then again, this thread isn't about Pilots , its about cabin crew, who, in the case of BA LHR SH are rostered very inefficiently indeed.

[cym]

Its all a bit deja vu

Britannia were in a similar situation in the mid 90's - cc voted for strike action, Britannia trained Thomson staff in SEP, cc realised they weren't messing around and the threatened strike evapourated.

Remember it well, I was one of the Thomson staff and beleive me had it been required we would have kept the planes in the air. Also the training gave me a taste of life as crew which I subsequently did.

There is one major lesson some people need to learn, no one is indespensable

[Da Dog]

80p

If pilots feel that they have sufficient flying hours available to be able to offer to work as cabin crew, do you think BA may look to reduce the number of pilots employed?

Loads of Flight Crew are part time, and the unpaid leave has been over subscribed on all fleets. This has been the only thing in recent months to get me off the 900 hour list.

I'm Volunteering even if its over my part time week. However I will only be doing NRT and SIN ,together with those one out day off one back short haul trips

[GearUp CheerUp]

Maybe you would get Golden Ticket on your flight. He, assuming Golden Ticket is he, who didn't even know the correct order of Protection, Location, Water and Food (basics!). It's amusing when you think that the easiest way to remember it is to learn this this short phrase: Pilots Like Wet Fish.

And, MissM, if you actually thought about it, instead of just parroting the four words off in the "correct" order, you might come to realise that putting location first would be a perfectly acceptable way of addressing a survival problem.

What would be the point of ensuring one was protected from the elements only to find that one had put up the survival tent on a beach at low tide (ie in a poor location)?

[Dutchjock]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you'll find hours flown as cabin crew won't count towards total hours in control of an aircraft.

I hardly think the CAA will be impressed if I log 10 hours performing as cabin crew in my logbook as operating a 747-400...