British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V

[SlideBustle]

Newyorker,

YES voters are voting Yes to say NO to imposition. Allegedly. However many state that we have to use this as chance otherwise what else could be imposed? Being forced onto New Fleet with the 52 week redeployment clause, SSH there and backs, scheme being imposed on us and they say is a chance to get WW to get back to the negotiating table as they say they (apparently) agree to change but it must be negotiated.

Shame Unite didn't use the time wisely then. I am voting No!

THESE VIEWS REPRESENT MY OWN OPINIONS AND NOT OPINIONS OF MY EMPLOYER - BA

[Newyorker001]

Real Slim Shady. Please tell me you dont work in rev man

[winstonsmith]

Ten West - 24 hours in LCA! Good thing with EF is that they can do minimum rest after arrival in LHR before doing another trip. If it were to go over to WW they would be insisting on 3 local nights - and a day off before operating to LCA because it departs at 08:30 - which would mean a report time at 07:00.

No doubt BA could fill a 777 but it would be too expensive to move over to WW.

HiFlyer14 - Have you thought of including British Airways into the name of your council? I was thinking it would be nice with some recognition - British Airways Cabin Crew Council - for example!

SlideBustle - I'm also voting No - I'm grounded crew for the time being but might return to flying sooner or later - or never!

[Desertia]

HiFlyer14 - Have you thought of including British Airways into the name of your council? I was thinking it would be nice with some recognition - British Airways Cabin Crew Council - for example!

I like it Winston.

How about The Original British Airways Cabin Crew Organisation?

No trouble getting sponsorship for that

[teddybear44]

Nice one Newyorker001,

Babs, you need to get up to speed about what other people have already agreed to change. Certain working practices 'went out with the Romans' everywhere else and the need for change where you are seems irresistable compounded by the current global economic climate. Agreed, there may come a time, in a dispute, where the only alternative and as a last resort might be to withdraw your labour. What you have to ask yourself, in light of that is, having considered what I am being asked to change in my work and how will it affect my remuneration, is this that time and, if you feel lucky.....well do ya?

[ExSp33db1rd]

Was there an occasion in the past where BA said they were going to do one thing and then did another?

Yes, but Pleez ........ don't have me start again on the way BA have treated their oldest pensioners, who were promised that they would retain their staff travel concessions throughout their retirement, and now won't.

White man talk with forked tongue.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Newyorker001,

I don't work in rev

My only point was that, considering the taxes imposed on very airline, the BA fares represent very good value for what you get.

I think it is sad though that the pride in the brand, product and service, so evident in John King's days, has vanished under the tenure of his successors.

And I don't want you to o on strike, at least not until after 18 March when I get my flight back from my hols

[ottergirl]

Disclaimer lol. Not all cabin crew are like this but i would say most are

Then I would say you need to get out more and speak to the rest of us because actually what you are describing is a small minority!

[Finnster]

exspeedbird ,i think like every one else in ba you have to except that things change i would imagine that as ex flight crew your pension is a damn site better than mine, as a ba employee i am paying into the scheme and the benefits will not be nearly as good as yours in retirement i guess you have had 25 yrs approx of staff travel so now help bring ba back to profit and start paying for full fare tickets!

[BlueUpGood]

Here's to you...

BA are in big financial trouble. BASSA (the reps, not the vast majority of members) are more interested in retaining their power, and steadfastly refuse to acknowledge publicly they may well deal a fatal blow. It's nothing to do with protecting their members. They would rather no BA than one without them with all the power. However they are knowingly taking a huge gamble and hoping BA will bottle it because it's so serious. But they won't. They can't. Because there is no future anyhow unless they resolve costs permanently. FACT. My feeling is BA would survive a dispute, but would be gravely weakened, and likely wiped out by the next 9/11 / swine flu / shoe bomber episode which inevitably comes along sooner or later.

They are WILLING to destroy BA rather than lose face, and are using the cabin crew and customers as cannon fodder in the process. No wonder all the other working groups in BA (including Unite members) are willing to step into the breech and help - they can see it, why can't the cabin crew? Because BASSA have a bullsh1t machine the likes of no other. Truth is irrelevant. The REAL interests of the cabin crew (ie a job at all in the future) is irrelevant. The rhetoric, personal abuse, vitriol and intimidation is appalling.

Good on you PCCC. You have the courage to speak up. You have the vision to see past BASSA's spin. I hope you are the future of cabin crew representation in BA.

[ottergirl]

LCA could also be done in a day

Yes it could, in fact there is nothing on Eurofleet that couldn't be done in a day except...........short days like LCA balance out the 12+ hours days like DME allowing the crew to complete a working week without running out of hours AND the early flights out of european destinations have a nightstopping a/c and therefore need to be crewed by a nightstopping crew. My roster this week is a classic example of this in action. Long day, medium day, Av, short day, long day. So 40 hours planned plus whatever the available day brings. Our trips are part of a big picture which is why they can easily be picked apart when looked at in isolation.

Without this balance we would need to employ more crew to cover the ones sat at home unusable and that would be more expensive than the hotel bills. Simples!

[Desertia]

I wonder if I am the only person (apart from a few voyeuristic hacks) that is actually waiting for a strike call before deciding whether or not to purchase a ticket.

No point in supporting the strike breakers if there's no strike



I should add: I hope BA take careful note of which BASSA reps either call in sick or turn up for work - and publish the information.

I am sure many BASSA members would be very disappointed if they were to find out that Loopy Lizzies' best friends aren't willing to risk their own their staff travel, but prefer to let the minions take the risk.

Or as Eric famously wrote:

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

[flyingsoldier1993]

Bring this madness to an end!

I left BASSSA 8 month ago in protest over their irresponsible and childish display of incompetence during negotiations (not showing up at all, showing up late, walking out or refusing to be in the same room as Amicus/CC89 reps.)
I was not going to be represented by people who are acting so selfish and short sighted in an ever changing world. Full of hope I turned to Amicus CC89 trusting that they would be the voice of reason. Unfortunately this has proven itself to be wrong. Instead CC89s voice of reason seems to have been swallowed completely by BASSA and its truth distorting propaganda machine.
I voted no to IA and I will do so again. And if there is a majority vote in favor of another strike I will resign my CC89 membership without hesitation. Someone needs to drill some sense of reality into these people....

[OpenCirrus619]

I do hope the CC weigh their options carefully. I always used to travel with BA - if at all possible.

I have never liked Mr Walsh - I didn't understand why he was appointed after his "efforts" left Aer Lingus as a shell of what it once was. He always seemed to me one of those "one trick pony" managers - whose only approach was to follow Beeching's example.

I also understand that the CC are going to do their best to protect the excellent (when compared to the rest of the industry) T&Cs they enjoy.

What I'm not sure they understand is how their current campaign is viewed by their customers.

Along with many others my compensation, over the last 2 years, has been considerably reduced - possibly never to return to the levels I enjoyed a few years ago (no - I'm NOT a banker, I work in IT). That is the reality of today.

I'm not sure that I want to support a business which charges me more to support the demands of staff who are not prepared to look at the bigger picture. (Quite apart from the fact that I am not going to be booking a ticket on an airline with industrial relations problems).

OC619

[Rover90]

To the founders of the PCC

It has to be said that the case for the "No" vote has been clearly made many times, the situation has been accurately and succinctly summarised by more than one poster.

The birth of the PCC on this forum can only be described as a very positive step and I certainly wish it well.

There is a sting in the tail and that is of history repeating itself. I do recall a very similar sentiment to the one being shown by the proposed PCC when CC89 was formed. CC89 was born out of frustration with the union representation that the majority of BA Cabin Crew were getting at the time. It offered a new and more reasonable approach to industrial relation with BA. It is worthy of note that assistance was given by BALPA in the early days in the form of office facilities at 81 New Road.

As a workforce, in common with most large groups of workers, BA Cabin Crew could not be described as pro-active when it comes to union elections. The known "names" being elected more by default that actual positive first choice. It has consequently wound up with the current forty odd representatives and has been hijacked by our friends from over the border and their shipyard style of union representation. (Strange, but that seems to be happening somewhere else not far away but that is another story)

Over the course of the last 20 years the relationship between BASSA and CC89 has been destructive, a great deal of effort has been expended on infighting and blaming the other party for their actions and it could be said that BA has benefited from this situation.

Despite the excellent intentions of CC89, it can never be a good thing to have two negotiating voices when dealing with an employer. The suggestion of having three with the recognition of PCC is difficult to sell given the experiences of CC89.

I feel that you have got to assert your authority from within BASSA. If you feel that you have Cabin Crew support for a PCC then would you consider asking them to support you as a group in a BASSA election. One could be fairly confident that there will be some vacancies soon.

Taking the fight right to BASSA would be like entering a bear pit but I don't feel you can successfully remain on the outside and just throw stones into the pit.

The medium term goal for any group that feel that BASSA is not truly representing its workforce is to get elected as BASSA reps on mass and get in there and make a difference, upset the balance of the current representation. Clearly you have intelligent and articulate canditates so you will be a force to be reckoned with. On the outside they can poke fun at you, exclude you and generally blame you for everything negative. Bit of a different story when you as a group have been democratically elected as BASSA reps and get to attend their little curry soiree evenings by right.

......and allegedly you get paid a shed load of money too !

[BlueUpGood]

Hi Rover90

IMHO British Airways are intent on making sure there is no BASSA when all this is over. No face saving deal for BASSA, no wavering on BA's part. They are prepared to endure a strike and ensure the demise of BASSA in it's current guise.

[thunderbird7]

Exactly right Rover90. Vote NO then a vote of NO CONFIDENCE in BASSA then get elected and represent yourselves properly. Don't dilute the negotiating voice.

[flyingsoldier1993]

Voices of reason do not seem to fare well within BASSA that is if they manage to get elected as reps. Some of my friends did try but it seemed that new young and fresh voices of reason were not what was required at this time. The self serving old guard has no place for them. Just have a look how anybody with a different opinion gets treated on the Bassa forum or crew forum for that matter. And the vast majority of Bassa membership does not seem to see the need for change either, they are blinded by the BASSA propaganda machine. For them the only way forward is to fight BA until the bitter end. At whatever price, just as BASSA tells them.

[Desertia]

What is the voting process in BASSA?

The top 40 candidates in the "first 40 past the post" arrangement?

Are they "endorsed" by the sitting cronies?

Is it feasible for the PCC to stand as a group?

We don't know much about this murky organisation (I refer to BASSA), and they probably like it that way.

[jetset lady]

Originally Posted by Ten West

You guys do LCA as a nightstop? *Adopts Monty Python's "Yorkshireman" accent* - Luxury!
We do that as a there-and-back in a day too. BA crews don't have it too hard really, do they?

Can we please put this to bed once and for all. We operate PFO there and back from LGW, which is more or less the same and I'm pretty sure that, once better slot times are obtained, we wil be operating the SSH in the same way from the summer. In fact, rumours are, that the A321 will be coming down for that very purpose.

Don't get me wrong. I'm totally against a strike, but it is pointless comparing which airline does what flight as a T&B and using that as an argument. For some reason, I suspect you may possibly work for the airline that I used to work for, Ten West, or one very similiar. Yes, we did longer day flights there, but we also worked less days. Our long haul trips were longer and there was no such thing as a shuttle, although some positioning. A good friend still works for that airline. I've recently had 11 days leave. In that time, she was rostered two flights and that's pretty normal for her. She's now in Mombassa, on a 9 day trip. While she has been sipping cocktails round the pool, I have operated a four day Bermuda, a three day Bermuda and have my two days off in between. (And that's what I'd consider a really easy run for me!) Generally, charter crew work a lot harder when on board, but they also spend a lot less time on an aircraft than we do. It's all swings and roundabouts.

Jsl