British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
Join Date: Dec 2005
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MissM all the survival training you need is in your manual, everyone can read.
Those cabin crew who do come to work can surely help out with the volunteers. They wouldn't be far removed from new entrants and we look after them when they start so no probs.
It's not difficult if you have the will and those who turn up on board will have the will.
Those cabin crew who do come to work can surely help out with the volunteers. They wouldn't be far removed from new entrants and we look after them when they start so no probs.
It's not difficult if you have the will and those who turn up on board will have the will.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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If they had over 4000 cabin crew volunteers the last time, and if they only intend to operate those "handfull of profitable routes" you are referring to, why have they asked for other staff to volunteer?
To the pilots, how would you feel about having the upper deck manned by inexperienced people?
To the pilots, how would you feel about having the upper deck manned by inexperienced people?
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Golden Ticket
Everyone can read? Not very true.
It sounds very safe with people having to refer to their manual in case of an emergency. Let's say in case of a ditching in the middle of the Atlantic you would need to open your manual to know what to do next.
MissM all the survival training you need is in your manual, everyone can read.
It sounds very safe with people having to refer to their manual in case of an emergency. Let's say in case of a ditching in the middle of the Atlantic you would need to open your manual to know what to do next.
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I thought everyone with an airside pass ahd to have a CRB check. If so I bet there's a lot of folk on the ground who send us off to Hong Kong or Barbados would happily join us there.
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I suspect this may well play out as an exceptional pr coup for BA.
MrB
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dns,
There are rules and regulations as to how many "new" crew an aircraft can have onboard. 50% ring a bell? All the safety procedures will be covered in training. It will be in line with CAA regulations.
If you're worried about who can use the defib, it will be covered in training as well. Have a look at VS, only their seniors are trained in the defib. Does that mean they're less safe to fly with? Didn't think so.
I reckon WW and his team have been working on this for quite some time. It's not something that was thought of and published today.
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A vast amount of employees have been through the appropriate checks and have airside passes already.
It wouldn't surprise me if some of the swimmers in the pool are contacted very soon. Should get them online and ready to fly in time if needed.
Gg
There are rules and regulations as to how many "new" crew an aircraft can have onboard. 50% ring a bell? All the safety procedures will be covered in training. It will be in line with CAA regulations.
If you're worried about who can use the defib, it will be covered in training as well. Have a look at VS, only their seniors are trained in the defib. Does that mean they're less safe to fly with? Didn't think so.
I reckon WW and his team have been working on this for quite some time. It's not something that was thought of and published today.
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A vast amount of employees have been through the appropriate checks and have airside passes already.
It wouldn't surprise me if some of the swimmers in the pool are contacted very soon. Should get them online and ready to fly in time if needed.
Gg
Join Date: Jan 2010
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"From the archives"
In the spring of 1974 - just before the Passover/Easter rush - El Al cabin crew went out on strike. The company did what Willie Walsh is doing now and called for volunteers from other divisions and departments to replace the striking cabin crew.
The volunteers were trained in flight safety and given refresher courses in first aid. The passengers were told that they would not be offered the usual catering, but rather boxed meals.
El Al's passengers were (and still are) unusually loyal, and the percentage of pax who rebooked on other carriers was < 5%.
The cabin crew, who thought they had the backing of Israel's citizenry, returned to the negotiating table within four days.
I know this because I was there, and I got a free and totally unexpected trip to JFK as a surrogate cabin crew member.
Oh, happy days!
The volunteers were trained in flight safety and given refresher courses in first aid. The passengers were told that they would not be offered the usual catering, but rather boxed meals.
El Al's passengers were (and still are) unusually loyal, and the percentage of pax who rebooked on other carriers was < 5%.
The cabin crew, who thought they had the backing of Israel's citizenry, returned to the negotiating table within four days.
I know this because I was there, and I got a free and totally unexpected trip to JFK as a surrogate cabin crew member.
Oh, happy days!
Last edited by La Pouquelaye; 18th Jan 2010 at 20:44.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The survival training we receive is how to use some safety equipment and Location Protection Water and Food. I would challenge any crew except those who have just done their SEP to remember how to work a flare.
Door usage in an emergency, don't make me laugh, part of the procedure in a briefing is to find someone who speaks English and it's done in a minute.
Door usage in an emergency, don't make me laugh, part of the procedure in a briefing is to find someone who speaks English and it's done in a minute.
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Experience
My dear Miss M,
It takes years of training to become a pilot or Flight Engineer. How long does it take to become a Flight Attendant? What are the comparable skills and abilities required?
Answers on a postcard, please.
It takes years of training to become a pilot or Flight Engineer. How long does it take to become a Flight Attendant? What are the comparable skills and abilities required?
Answers on a postcard, please.
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Golden Ticket
Sorry to fail you and say that you'd probably kill all of those surviving passengers within an instant. Didn't you know it's Protection, Location, Water and Food?
Location Protection Water and Food
Miss M,
That is an astoundingly 'superior' attitude! You seem to forget that all the pilots conduct annual SEP training, and many of them have qualifications gained elsewhere, including in the military. That included annual medical training (first aid for trauma wounds, including gunshot) and pilots had to undertake survival training in a variety of environments - temperate, tropical, maritime. How many hours of survival training have you had in the ocean, in a raft? Or in a jungle?
Survival training? You don't have a clue what the term means!
Pilots could be responsible for doors but do they have any medical training? Any survival training?
Survival training? You don't have a clue what the term means!
MissM
"Any survival Training"..oh please.....here we go with the "we're highly qualified difficult to replace" spin.......Well I've got news for you - you're not highly trained in Survival, not at all.
I can promise you many of the pilots (self included), many of our ex-military ground colleagues, and indeed some of our customers such as finncastle84 have attended much more arduous survival training courses than the little taster you get at Cranebank and in Hayes pool. More than one BA pilot has had to put that training to practical use in a previous life.....we'll manage fine, thanks, and so will the passengers under our care.
I can promise you many of the pilots (self included), many of our ex-military ground colleagues, and indeed some of our customers such as finncastle84 have attended much more arduous survival training courses than the little taster you get at Cranebank and in Hayes pool. More than one BA pilot has had to put that training to practical use in a previous life.....we'll manage fine, thanks, and so will the passengers under our care.
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There are scenes approaching apoplexy in the other places. Why? Because behind the rage and self-aggrandisement those with their heads screwed on know this plan can work. There doesn't need to be service on board. SEP and the other essentials can be taught in a week. Thousands of experienced crew have volunteered to work through any dispute. Thousands more staff are likely to volunteer. BA can slash frequencies, suspend agreements and squeeze hitherto undreamed of scheduling efficiencies out of the volunteers for the first few days of the strike, leading to a pretty robust schedule. BASSAs muppets on the picket line will be looking at BA aircraft after BA aircraft departing from LHR with that sinking feeling in the pit of their stomach that they've been duped by a union who lied to them that it would all be alright.
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As an interested reader of this forum since my daughters decided to apply for cabin crew posts I am amazed at how naieve some posters such as Miss M are.
Airside passes can be turned around in a couple of days - fact I had one issued this quick...the 5-6 week period is the normal and includes all the renewals, and other changes associated with existing passes.
Be assured if BA need passes rushed through the pass center will give priority to this and all others will have to wait, so this will not stop passes being rushed through.
There are plenty of people who have gone through cabin crew training schools available who would bite your arm of for a job with an airline that is offering inductry rates PLUS 10%, remember these people have paid for thier own training to try and get a job.
Watch Willie Walsh work as cabin crew on the first flight to take off during any strike...he may even still hold his pilots license.
Finally as other posters have said the service levels will improve during any IA as those on board will be the CC who actually love their jobs.
Airside passes can be turned around in a couple of days - fact I had one issued this quick...the 5-6 week period is the normal and includes all the renewals, and other changes associated with existing passes.
Be assured if BA need passes rushed through the pass center will give priority to this and all others will have to wait, so this will not stop passes being rushed through.
There are plenty of people who have gone through cabin crew training schools available who would bite your arm of for a job with an airline that is offering inductry rates PLUS 10%, remember these people have paid for thier own training to try and get a job.
Watch Willie Walsh work as cabin crew on the first flight to take off during any strike...he may even still hold his pilots license.
Finally as other posters have said the service levels will improve during any IA as those on board will be the CC who actually love their jobs.
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Crewing aircraft with volunteers won't happen and even less them leaving the ground. Do you think it would be safe? It would take a long time to get all of those people through training! Pilots could be responsible for doors but do they have any medical training? Any survival training?
A chock-a-block 747 leaving LHR with a couple of pilots and some office people from Waterside. Don't even go there.
As to your comments a couple of posts further on about a ditching in the North Atlantic, dont make me laugh. Its never happened and if it did happen the aircraft would most likely break up on hitting the large waves which are almost sure to be prevalent. It wouldn't be like the Hudson river, you know! In this situation, whether or not the crew had the niceties of survival training or not wouldn't make one jot of difference. All that needs to be done is for the authorities be satidfied that the crew on board have the minimum legal training.
I sense a certain amount of desparation in your posts - well there damn well should be. In just over 4 weeks you're going to have to decide whether to break the strike which you seem to support here or take action which will very probably terminate your employment.
Sleep well.
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Maybe the BA crew/pilots out there should take a look at JPM Part A(2):
1.7.2
"Experienced" is defined as having 3 months operating experience as Cabin crew within the last 3 years. Half of the minimum required crew complement must have this level of experience.
1.7.2
"Experienced" is defined as having 3 months operating experience as Cabin crew within the last 3 years. Half of the minimum required crew complement must have this level of experience.