British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations

[Glamgirl]

Plodding Along,

HIFLYER14, Glamgirl, Alexandraa and a few others,

You have all put some excellent posts on here, alas in general you preach to the converted.

From the 92% vote it seems that not many crew read or believe what's on here.

If you also posted everything you write here on the Crew Forum then surely that would have a greater effect? (Or at least some effect)

I know you are worried about the vicious responses but it is an anonymous forum.

A.Lurker writes some incredible stuff on here, I'm glad he does, it shows the kind of people and logic we're up against.

He gets no sympathy or acceptance but at least he has a go and we can see both sides.

Do you guys not owe it to yourselves and the rest of the company to put your sides across in front of the audience that matters?

I'd love to be able to post on CF about this whole mess. The problem with CF is that it's not anonymus. It pretends it is, but you have to be "cleared and approved" by the administrator of the forum. They require your full name, staff number and will ask you some questions to validate that you're cc for BA.

So you can imagine that if someone like me and my views started posting "over there", all hell would break loose, I would be hunted down and my life would be made an absolute misery. I've been threatened with physical violence in the past, and I would have to live in fear of my life, to put it bluntly. It would be difficult to prove who released my name (on the quiet of course), but it's not something I'm willing to risk.

My "crime" which the CF lot figured deserved the punishment of "taken out the back and shot", was simply doing a little copy/paste job from CF to here, to let people know the horrible and awful things that were being said.

Ironically, the CF lot are the ones that keep harping on about free speech and democracy. You couldn't make it up.

If anyone has an idea how to make people from CF and bassa forums understand the mess L Malone and the other reps have created, I'm all ears.

Maybe if I offered some cash? Oh, hang on - I haven't got any, I'm LGW

Gg

[Tiramisu]

Now this will really make you laugh.
Our shorthaul rosters are normally out 10 days before the end of the month. Because of Christmas there was a possibility that the rosters would be out this evening. Of course some of the YES Vote Strikers are wondering why the rosters aren't out tonight!
These are the same crew who were prepared to bring BA down and not turn up to operate for flights for 12 days!
You couldn't make it up!

[Weather Map]

Tiramisu ...I think that most flight crew no who's who certainly on shorthaul we do and we tend to look out for them .I would say most shorthaul CSD's are alright.

Now anyone have any info on the BASSA six ? what was the outcome?

[romans44]

God!!! it seems to me that this forum is either full of bitter pilots, who obviosly aren't getting their way with CC or by people who really don't have a clue about people's lives.
CC have families and lives just like anyone, pilots or no pilots..many CC are actually married to pilots and have their children.
We are protecting our future and if that seems such a terrible thing, well I am sorry, just get over it.
No strike or ballot would need to happen if the imposition was lifted and the company would go back to negotiation....it is as simple as that.

[Tiramisu]

romans44,
Imposition wouldn't have taken place if your Union had negotiated, watched slides, not stormed out of meeting rooms etc, etc. Read this whole thread from the start please. Also BASSA did not ask us the members, what we wanted, remember?

[winstonsmith]

romans44

CC have families and lives just like anyone, pilots or no pilots..many CC are actually married to pilots and have their children.

Thank you for clearing this out - I had my doubts.

No strike or ballot would need to happen if the imposition was lifted and the company would go back to negotiation....it is as simple as that.

Unfortunately it's not that easy. In case you have forgotten - over 1000 crew have left on VR and there's not enough crew for BA to remove the imposition.

But - what if BA recruits new crew on lovely new contracts and put them back on the aircraft - would you then negotiate?

[romans44]

Tiramisu, you obviously listen to everything the company tells you, and that's ok .we do live in a democracy.
BA had this plan long before the recession and long before they started negotiating..This has never been about anything else but to put an end to our terms and conditions, surely u must see that.
We offered a very good deal to BA, including pay cut, the deal was worth a huge amount of money in savings but BA was simple not interested.

[winstonsmith]

A very good deal? Don't flatter yourself - how much was it worth again? £50 million pounds - one THIRD of what BA is asking for - and to be re-paid in two years time?

Don't say it was worth more than that - seeing as your people at UNITE can't even get a simple balloting right - how do you expect them to deal with something as complicated as NUMBERS?

[Perry-oaks]

Originally Posted by romans44

No strike or ballot would need to happen if the imposition was lifted and the company would go back to negotiation....it is as simple as that.

After 9 months of delaying tactics by Bassa BA had no other option.

Bassa use a 1970s style of destructive, confrontational, industrial relations which just doesn't wash with Willie. In my opinion with it's present leadership team, there will be no peace with BA. All the union propaganda sent out by Bassa are designed to mislead, intimidate and frighten. The cabin crew are being used as pawns in a futile power struggle with BA.

romans44, The VR crew have left now the company part time granted to those who wanted it, how do you expect BA to reverse the imposition???

[Juan Tugoh]

BA had this plan long before the recession and long before they started negotiating

Ah - when all else fails why not resort to conspiracy theories. Are you also one who believes the judge was bent or bought?

We offered a very good deal to BA, including pay cut, the deal was worth a huge amount of money in savings but BA was simple not interested.

We are nearly upto 6300 posts on this thread - and there have been other threads before this one. This nonsense argument has been done to death.

[Slickster]

God!!! it seems to me that this forum is either full of bitter pilots, who obviosly aren't getting their way with CC or by people who really don't have a clue about people's lives.

That tired old line again? Save it. Some pilots go out/marry CC; it's the way of the world. I daresay a few doctors have married nurses, once in a while. To try and belittle this issue as bitter pilots, because they haven't got their wicked way is a tad pathetic. Maybe I don't want to, maybe I'm already married, maybe I'm gay.

We are protecting our future and if that seems such a terrible thing, well I am sorry, just get over it.

Well, here's the thing. I can't get over it, not because I haven't "got my leg over" lately, but because UNITE/BASSA are playing Russian Roulette with their members' jobs, and also everyone else's jobs at BA, not to mention the customers travel plans.

You're not protecting your future, you're ensuring it becomes the poorer by the minute, for every bit of posturing you do on here. Frankly good luck to you; I'm starting to apply for jobs elsewhere, so sick am I of being held to ransom by a bunch of ill-informed, ignorant, emotive, rabble-rousing clowns.

[DP.]

God!!! it seems to me that this forum is either full of bitter pilots, who obviosly aren't getting their way with CC or by people who really don't have a clue about people's lives.

I'm genuinely amazed that, even now, this is the kind of thing BASSA supporters are still coming out with.

Seriously, read what your colleagues on here, like Glamgirl, Tiramisu etc are writing, and realise they're talking a lot of sense. There is no-one else to blame for the ballot mess than BASSA, regardless of how many straw men you throw out there. BASSA made a huge error with the conduct of the ballot - that is the start and end of it. The fact that the non-eligible people wouldn't have made a material difference to the result is completely irrelevant. You simply cannot do what they did. As much as you claim BA stopped the strike on a 'technicality', it is simply not the case.

By all means re-ballot, it is your lawful right. However, you cannot move forward with your current leadership. Of course, you probably feel loyalty towards them, but their position is completely untenable. They've been ridiculed (rightly or wrongly) in the national press, and committed a, quite frankly, rudimentary error, leading to the collapse of the strike.

There is no way they can be taken seriously by Willie Walsh and BA's management now. As I say, you are completely within your rights to re-ballot, but think about it very carefully. There seems to be an assumption in your ranks that Willie Walsh is scared of your threats. The problem is, there doesn't appear to be a single scrap of evidence supporting that assumption. Most of all, you need to work out what your endgame is here, because BASSA don't seem to be sure themselves. Willie Walsh is not going to remove the changes already imposed.

Your union leaders will now be baying for the blood of management, and trying to get their revenge for this humiliation. That is really not the mindset you want the people you are trusting with leading you into this battle to have.

(For the recod, I don't work for BA, or in the industry. I'm simply a passenger and keen aviation enthusiast, who travels with BA when possible. I've always enjoyed the service provided by the crew whenever i've flown with you guys in the past, and i'd really hate to watch the airline go down the pan)

[Dairyground]

Ancient Observer

As PPRuNe accurately predicted the legal cock-up by Bassa back in November, let's have some serious thinking about their next bad mistake.........

Think, yes, but don't post until after the ballot starts. Why help BASSA to direct the gun away from their feet?

[Perry-oaks]

Originally Posted by romans44

We offered a very good deal to BA

That Bassa originally valued at £175M and offered only as a temporary loan with full payback after two years

Then very quietly reduced to £100M when Unite addressed the city

And have reduced again to £50M, which was just about BA's initial valuation of Bassa's very generous offer!

We are protecting our future and if that seems such a terrible thing, well I am sorry, just get over it.

What by killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Please romans44 no disrespect intended but do us all a favour and at least read some of the last 300 pages of this thread because these questions have been answered numerous times.

If you could also answer my question - Thanks

romans44, The VR crew have left now the company part time granted to those who wanted it, how do you expect BA to reverse the imposition???

[Pontius]

Romans44,

Instead of boring everybody with your re-hash of comments that have been made several thousand times already, kindly go back through earlier pages and read the replies to similar ill-informed accusations and supposition.

[romans44]

Wistonsmith, could you tell me how you put a quote on here?
In answer to your question, the imposition can easly be removed with an agreement, and it wouldn't have to happen overnight.
There are hundreds of people who would love to go back to full time, till more staff can be hired....There are many pursers not being used at the moment due to the lack of work.There are also plenty of temporary crew in an holding pool waiting to be called..As u can see there are several options,but as I said to tiramisu', the company is not interested in making an agreement with us, simply because this a pure attack to our terms and conditions...The huge propaganda machine is doing a great job at convincing the general public and obviously other departments. I guess we would have to wait and see if it will convince us before the next ballot.

[winstonsmith]

romans44

If you look at the menu on top of this square - there are a couple of buttons - it's the third one to the right which you should press to quote something - either mark the text which you want to quote before pressing that button - or place it between after.

[winstonsmith]

There are hundreds of people who would love to go back to full time, till more staff can be hired....There are many pursers not being used at the moment due to the lack of work.There are also plenty of temporary crew in an holding pool waiting to be called

The company won't use pursers and have them work down because that won't save them any money - and the company has been clear that there will be no recruitment onto excisting contracts.

[romans44]

Perry-oak please see my previous reply.
Sorry you feel I am repeating myself but I am merely replying to your and other posts.I am new to this forum, could you tell me how you cut and paste the quote?

[Perry-oaks]

romans44

I really do appreciate you taking the time to reply with more than cheap sound bites, but your crew forum view on events is so completely removed from the reality of what actually happened.

I understand why Bassa called the first Ballot for strike action, to try and send a powerful message to Willie, but this second ballot is just madness - surely with the timings of a second ballot and subsequence strike action would it not be better just to wait for the outcome of the impending court case in Feb?

If the court rules in your favour then crewing levels will be returned and you will all be compensated, but more importantly the company is saved from further damage after all, this is about preserving your T+C's not making yourself unemployed. Bassa have made their point in my opinion.

I sincerely hope that Unite manages to reign in Bassa until after the Feb court case, then at least you will know if you are justified in striking or not. The true facts with regards to Bassa's attempts at negations will all come out during the course of the court case. Although I doubt you will ever get the real truth on CF judging by censorship from your roving reporters from the last case.