British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Flyluke
Ask one of your mates with a log in to the BASSA website - plenty of 'reference' on there old chap
And you are right - in the meantime I will carry on as I have done for years and years providing exceptional customer service to all the passengers I carry as I have done for all of my working career - that includes being a trainer in Cranebank and having an Award for Excellence
Right Im out now on the lash
And you are right - in the meantime I will carry on as I have done for years and years providing exceptional customer service to all the passengers I carry as I have done for all of my working career - that includes being a trainer in Cranebank and having an Award for Excellence
Right Im out now on the lash
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Lizanne Malone, Chair of BASSA, lied on a public forum ( can the VR's vote...?)
This lie was proved in court. Lizanne Malone was specifically referred to several times in the judges summing up.
Yet according to BASSA, it's everyones fault except BASSA's.
A.Lurker, WWW, Fume et al..........please explain this to me.
This lie was proved in court. Lizanne Malone was specifically referred to several times in the judges summing up.
Yet according to BASSA, it's everyones fault except BASSA's.
A.Lurker, WWW, Fume et al..........please explain this to me.
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A Lurker
I think you'll find that the public humiliation of BA cabin crew was comprehensively achieved with the announcement of a 12 day strike over Christmas. Anyway, never mind that, a genuine question for you:
BASSA /UNITE has cost the company a fortune with the shenanigans of the last few weeks. With UNITE now announcing another ballot in the new year, forward bookings will collapse - there will be no cash flow through the business, and this could very well push the company to the brink of insolvency, if not beyond. How will this achieve your aims - or are you purely out to get one man out of his job, and if 40,000 others lose theirs - well that's too bad (bearing in mind that ex BA cabin crew are now virtually unemployable in the outside market)?
I think you'll find that the public humiliation of BA cabin crew was comprehensively achieved with the announcement of a 12 day strike over Christmas. Anyway, never mind that, a genuine question for you:
BASSA /UNITE has cost the company a fortune with the shenanigans of the last few weeks. With UNITE now announcing another ballot in the new year, forward bookings will collapse - there will be no cash flow through the business, and this could very well push the company to the brink of insolvency, if not beyond. How will this achieve your aims - or are you purely out to get one man out of his job, and if 40,000 others lose theirs - well that's too bad (bearing in mind that ex BA cabin crew are now virtually unemployable in the outside market)?
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A Lurker - your allegiance to a dying Union is admirable, if not somewhat misplaced.
To answer your questions: I fully concede that I may have got the maths wrong - the VR numbers were altered up and down a few times - so I based it on the HCE reduction of 4000 x 15 pounds = 60000.
However, as you well know, this has nothing to do with the maths and everything to do with the principle. The Union had a choice
Let the crew work harder (reduce complements) and UNITE lose money (be it 15000 pounds per month or 60000)
OR
The crew take a pay cut, a pay freeze and work harder (767 to sh etc) and UNITE have no financial impact whatsoever.
Why did they do this Lurker? Why did a Union that is supposed to represent us chose (without consulting the entire membership) the option that was MOST PUNITIVE TO US and LEAST PUNITIVE TO THEM?
With regard to your second somewhat laughable point, are you trying to say that crew in a bar downroute would be scared to say they support the union? After most have published it in black and white earlier on the ESS forum? You really are clutching at straws. Anyway, I am not the bullying kind, I speak from I and simply represent MY OWN VIEW and am prepared to listen to others. But as a loyal and dedicated UNITE member I can fully understand why that concept is alien to you.
To answer your questions: I fully concede that I may have got the maths wrong - the VR numbers were altered up and down a few times - so I based it on the HCE reduction of 4000 x 15 pounds = 60000.
However, as you well know, this has nothing to do with the maths and everything to do with the principle. The Union had a choice
Let the crew work harder (reduce complements) and UNITE lose money (be it 15000 pounds per month or 60000)
OR
The crew take a pay cut, a pay freeze and work harder (767 to sh etc) and UNITE have no financial impact whatsoever.
Why did they do this Lurker? Why did a Union that is supposed to represent us chose (without consulting the entire membership) the option that was MOST PUNITIVE TO US and LEAST PUNITIVE TO THEM?
With regard to your second somewhat laughable point, are you trying to say that crew in a bar downroute would be scared to say they support the union? After most have published it in black and white earlier on the ESS forum? You really are clutching at straws. Anyway, I am not the bullying kind, I speak from I and simply represent MY OWN VIEW and am prepared to listen to others. But as a loyal and dedicated UNITE member I can fully understand why that concept is alien to you.
Last edited by HiFlyer14; 18th Dec 2009 at 19:21.
New ballot
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So just because of the media propaganda that was (actually exceptionally) manipulated by BA - I should just say "ah go on then - lets forget it - go on WW take all of my terms, conditions and my contract and do with it what you will!"
BASSA/UNITE got a slightly rigged poll to say they had a mandate for IA, then announced, to the dismay of many of their own members (some of whom are now actually talking to me again!), that they were going to
up a lot of people's very important annual travel plans. At which point, many of the affected customers kicked off. Which the media reported.And for some reason, you think it was "media propaganda"?
How about firing the Malone and the rest of the rep retards that put you in this position where you looked like you wanted to shaft your customers?
Or are you afraid to take them on?In which case, resign. And talk here about setting up an alternative.
Or are you one of them? In which case, you deserve everything you are going to get.
Simple really.
Cheers,
D
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Oh no! I have resigned so won't be able to vote no this time. No worries - I'm sure i'll get a ballot paper anyway! Will let you all know when it comes through the post and then it'll be off to the High Court again.
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FLYLUKE, you might have missed out on the fact that over 90% of CC have voted yes..and that is without the VR votes.Surely that must sent a clear loud message to management...I doubt very much that management has cc running around but that is your opion and I respect that.
I guess we shall have to wait and see.
I guess we shall have to wait and see.
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A Lurker
Originally Posted by A Lurker
Walsh attempted and achieved public humiliation of 13,000 members of his staff
After all it was the Bassa chair that actively encouraged VR members to vote on the Bassa forum despite clear guidance that VR crew are not eligible to vote,
Also BA provided Bassa with "checkoff" data showing who was a union member by salary deduction in the form of a spreadsheet, so Bassa knew exactly who was in the union and who wasn't, BA provided evidence that the Bassa chair was one of a couple of people that had this information.
Bassa had problems understanding the data provided by BA - Under a column marked date was a incredibly fiendish code in the form of 091130, but not spelt out along the lines of 30th Nov 2009. Bassa have been provided with similar data from BA for over 5 years. Again the Bassa chair was one of a couple of people that had tried to crack this code without success.
A number of letters from Willie Walsh and Bill Francis to Unite were produced, asking if they had discounted the people leaving under VR, Unite/Bassa in their arrogance failed to reply. The overall picture painted was that Unite knew in plenty of time that the VR people would be leaving, and they should be discounted.
Bassa's HR witness stated that he was familiar with the spreadsheets, and had said that it was "easy to track crew who are leaving" but then seemed to say he didn't understand the data on the sheet and couldn't work out who was leaving??? The BA QC stated that it wasn't usual for the other sides evidence to strengthen your case.
Bassa/Unite just didn't seem prepared at all.
But I guess your right this public humiliation must be all BA's fault (and those pesky pilots of course!)
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HIFLYER14, Glamgirl, Alexandraa and a few others,
You have all put some excellent posts on here, alas in general you preach to the converted.
From the 92% vote it seems that not many crew read or believe what's on here.
If you also posted everything you write here on the Crew Forum then surely that would have a greater effect? (Or at least some effect)
I know you are worried about the vicious responses but it is an anonymous forum.
A.Lurker writes some incredible stuff on here, I'm glad he does, it shows the kind of people and logic we're up against.
He gets no sympathy or acceptance but at least he has a go and we can see both sides.
Do you guys not owe it to yourselves and the rest of the company to put your sides across in front of the audience that matters?
You have all put some excellent posts on here, alas in general you preach to the converted.
From the 92% vote it seems that not many crew read or believe what's on here.
If you also posted everything you write here on the Crew Forum then surely that would have a greater effect? (Or at least some effect)
I know you are worried about the vicious responses but it is an anonymous forum.
A.Lurker writes some incredible stuff on here, I'm glad he does, it shows the kind of people and logic we're up against.
He gets no sympathy or acceptance but at least he has a go and we can see both sides.
Do you guys not owe it to yourselves and the rest of the company to put your sides across in front of the audience that matters?
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Originally Posted by romans44
Perry-Oaks
Talking about being prepared!!!!!
with all due respect to Balpa and pilots but does Openskies mean anything to you?
Talking about being prepared!!!!!
with all due respect to Balpa and pilots but does Openskies mean anything to you?
I am happy that Balpa were as well prepared as they could be - they also know when to get out when there is no chance of winning - something it appears that Bassa have yet to learn!!
Can you say the say of Bassa and Lalalady?
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HIFLYER14, Glamgirl, Alexandraa and a few others,
You have all put some excellent posts on here, alas in general you preach to the converted.
From the 92% vote it seems that not many crew read or believe what's on here.
If you also posted everything you write here on the Crew Forum then surely that would have a greater effect? (Or at least some effect)
I know you are worried about the vicious responses but it is an anonymous forum.
A.Lurker writes some incredible stuff on here, I'm glad he does, it shows the kind of people and logic we're up against.
He gets no sympathy or acceptance but at least he has a go and we can see both sides.
Do you guys not owe it to yourselves and the rest of the company to put your sides across in front of the audience that matters?
You have all put some excellent posts on here, alas in general you preach to the converted.
From the 92% vote it seems that not many crew read or believe what's on here.
If you also posted everything you write here on the Crew Forum then surely that would have a greater effect? (Or at least some effect)
I know you are worried about the vicious responses but it is an anonymous forum.
A.Lurker writes some incredible stuff on here, I'm glad he does, it shows the kind of people and logic we're up against.
He gets no sympathy or acceptance but at least he has a go and we can see both sides.
Do you guys not owe it to yourselves and the rest of the company to put your sides across in front of the audience that matters?
As an aside, you might just flush out a few non-militant free thinking folk too who ONLY access that forum for their info. Imagine if that was all you knew existed ???
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Hi romans44
Yes, they voted that way last time - but will they again, agasinst a backdrop of alleged surprise at union's deciasion to go for a punitive 12 day stoppage, passenger/media dissent, etc. etc.?
I rather doubt it.
INHO 'management' have these guys on the back foot, and we have seen several times before what BA 'management' achieve when they scent blood.
Yes, they voted that way last time - but will they again, agasinst a backdrop of alleged surprise at union's deciasion to go for a punitive 12 day stoppage, passenger/media dissent, etc. etc.?
I rather doubt it.
INHO 'management' have these guys on the back foot, and we have seen several times before what BA 'management' achieve when they scent blood.
Last edited by Flyluke; 18th Dec 2009 at 20:27.
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Romans44,
BALPA got further than BASSA, in that they did manage to conduct a legal ballot. Something I would have thought UNITE could manage, seeming as the neanderthal from said union proudly boasted of how many strikes he's been involved in (no doubt from the comfort of his own home, counting his huge salary).
BALPA fell foul of the potential ramifications of Article 43, of the treaty of Rome, which is to do with anyone in the EU being allowed to start a business up anywhere else in the EU. It was a long shot by BA, but BALPA decided not to risk bankrupting the whole union in case BA won, so the strike was called off. The matter of Article 43 being used in this manner is an ongoing issue, so that we all know where we stand.
So, you see, BALPA did not behave in any way like the BASSA chumps, despite UNITE's vast experience of strikes. Muppets.
BALPA got further than BASSA, in that they did manage to conduct a legal ballot. Something I would have thought UNITE could manage, seeming as the neanderthal from said union proudly boasted of how many strikes he's been involved in (no doubt from the comfort of his own home, counting his huge salary).
BALPA fell foul of the potential ramifications of Article 43, of the treaty of Rome, which is to do with anyone in the EU being allowed to start a business up anywhere else in the EU. It was a long shot by BA, but BALPA decided not to risk bankrupting the whole union in case BA won, so the strike was called off. The matter of Article 43 being used in this manner is an ongoing issue, so that we all know where we stand.
So, you see, BALPA did not behave in any way like the BASSA chumps, despite UNITE's vast experience of strikes. Muppets.
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If you also posted everything you write here on the Crew Forum then surely that would have a greater effect?
Not worth it if you ask me - the regular posters of these forums are beyond help and do not in my opinion deserve a job with BA.
How can you reason with idiots like this -
Sorry but I think it has to be 12 days in order to have the desired effect. The threat of 12 days can do some serious damage to the airlines finances. 3 days is just not long enough. Mind you after yesterday if I had my way it would be an indefinite strike.
First thing he'd probably do is give all these moaning, whimpering doubters a right good kick in the nuts.....when can we get him
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Flyluke, I think you'd be rather surprised. Judging by the people I have met, this whole episode has made CC more united. We may not get the same result but I think the message will still be loud and strong.
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Hi romans44,
Personally, I hope you are right.
I do not wish to see BA fail (who does?) but there has been demonstrable fault here by BA, and I support CC's right to strike against it.
My only question is, will they now dare?
As you said earlier, only time will tell!
Personally, I hope you are right.
I do not wish to see BA fail (who does?) but there has been demonstrable fault here by BA, and I support CC's right to strike against it.
My only question is, will they now dare?
As you said earlier, only time will tell!