British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Commercial aviation is in just the beginning of its current crisis. During such time employees should expect to take employment condition hits, like everybody else in the world.
I cannot see why sectorial employee contracts need to have expiration dates and therefore be renegotiated. This creates instability, permanently inherent in the British labor market, adversely affecting the British economy, or anywhere else this pattern exists. Moreover, emplyee unions cause more harm than good to the people they represent and thereby to the whole society.
You have a marketable skill- sell your ability, work properly and get rewarded. I worked as freelance flight program manager, did a good job and for a one year effort payable by 12 monthly salaries, I got three additional equal payments as bonus, not included in my contract. Why? because my management did miracles to the boss's bottom line as well as his long term position in that specific market. He knew how to appreciate it. Unions? a thing of the not so successful past. Proper performance-based remuneration should replace it.
I cannot see why sectorial employee contracts need to have expiration dates and therefore be renegotiated. This creates instability, permanently inherent in the British labor market, adversely affecting the British economy, or anywhere else this pattern exists. Moreover, emplyee unions cause more harm than good to the people they represent and thereby to the whole society.
You have a marketable skill- sell your ability, work properly and get rewarded. I worked as freelance flight program manager, did a good job and for a one year effort payable by 12 monthly salaries, I got three additional equal payments as bonus, not included in my contract. Why? because my management did miracles to the boss's bottom line as well as his long term position in that specific market. He knew how to appreciate it. Unions? a thing of the not so successful past. Proper performance-based remuneration should replace it.
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Good morning everyone.
After a couple of days reflective absence, I am back. With a vengeance.
Having read with interest many of the recent posts, I fear it is harder for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for many people on this forum to refrain from union 'bashing' which appears to do scarcely more than humiliate and belittle its hard working and loyal members.
This has got to stop The High court decision was a bitter , bitter gall for Unite , made so much worse after the PR humiliation perpetrated by the high handed BA management and their uber counsel of lawyers.
This was a conspiracy of monumental proportions, not seen in a generation.The dirty tricks, the smear campaign in the Daily Mail - an example of the most grotesque piece of gutter journalism ever witnessed in recent years just goes to prove how low we have stooped during this sorry episode.
I will say little more than to state that, far from this being a hollow victory in round one for BA and their crass, macho management, Bassa will now rise, like a phoenix from the smouldering embers of democratic injustice, to rear its ugly head again.
It will emerge stronger and more united than ever, its members galvanised and seething with rage, to fight another day.
That day will come soon. Public outrage will not be directed at the cabin crew next time; instead WW will have more than his work cut out to convince people that , confronted with a watertight and overwhelming move to strike, still his management style is not to blame.
Time and ideas are rapidly running out for him.
As for Unite, there is no Plan B. Plan B is simply to enforce Plan A.
After a couple of days reflective absence, I am back. With a vengeance.
Having read with interest many of the recent posts, I fear it is harder for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for many people on this forum to refrain from union 'bashing' which appears to do scarcely more than humiliate and belittle its hard working and loyal members.
This has got to stop The High court decision was a bitter , bitter gall for Unite , made so much worse after the PR humiliation perpetrated by the high handed BA management and their uber counsel of lawyers.
This was a conspiracy of monumental proportions, not seen in a generation.The dirty tricks, the smear campaign in the Daily Mail - an example of the most grotesque piece of gutter journalism ever witnessed in recent years just goes to prove how low we have stooped during this sorry episode.
I will say little more than to state that, far from this being a hollow victory in round one for BA and their crass, macho management, Bassa will now rise, like a phoenix from the smouldering embers of democratic injustice, to rear its ugly head again.
It will emerge stronger and more united than ever, its members galvanised and seething with rage, to fight another day.
That day will come soon. Public outrage will not be directed at the cabin crew next time; instead WW will have more than his work cut out to convince people that , confronted with a watertight and overwhelming move to strike, still his management style is not to blame.
Time and ideas are rapidly running out for him.
As for Unite, there is no Plan B. Plan B is simply to enforce Plan A.
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From another place
And this is the real problem we have to address. The total and utter unwillingness to admit or see any error in BASSA's handling of anything. How do you address that without destroying the union? (Let me stress I don't actually wish to see the union destroyed but how does one engineer the wholesale and, I'd argue, necessary change of mindset?)
Very depressing. I mean, this person actually thinks that public support is growing for the CC in this dispute.
I dont care if my whole boddy is covered in egg, if we follow ALL REASONABLE STEPS to ensure that we follow the letter of the law and learn from our mistakes then we are entering into this with 100% good intentions and if its truthful and just, we have nothing to worry about.
How would we loose credibility ?? On the contrary, I think the great British Public will admire our resiliance and gather even more support than seems to be gathering now that we are not going on strike over Christmas.
How would we loose credibility ?? On the contrary, I think the great British Public will admire our resiliance and gather even more support than seems to be gathering now that we are not going on strike over Christmas.
Very depressing. I mean, this person actually thinks that public support is growing for the CC in this dispute.
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My apologies for drifting slightly but can someone explain to me, in terms that my hard-of-learning brain will understand, how to quote another's post on here. I've tried pressing every button but can only find the [QUOTE] bit in the reply to thread box. I'm looking for the one that quotes and adds the users name at the same time if possible!
Thanks
MrB
Thanks
MrB
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deeceethree
Quote
I am happy to report that the BA company council BALPA reps that we have are some of the finest minds in the business - a very astute lot.
A good example of bugle blowing! As we cannot reference it anywhere I suppose we will have to take your word for it - however reliable that may be!
And before anyone has a go at me I am responding to his previous nasty posting questioning that I am a trainer and have an Award for Excellence - I find it extremely insulting
I am happy to report that the BA company council BALPA reps that we have are some of the finest minds in the business - a very astute lot.
A good example of bugle blowing! As we cannot reference it anywhere I suppose we will have to take your word for it - however reliable that may be!
And before anyone has a go at me I am responding to his previous nasty posting questioning that I am a trainer and have an Award for Excellence - I find it extremely insulting
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[quote=MrBunker;5390433]My apologies for drifting slightly but can someone explain to me, in terms that my hard-of-learning brain will understand, how to quote another's post on here. I've tried pressing every button but can only find the
Hit the reply button in the post you wish to quote, then in the URL bar of your browser you will see something like this http://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?d...0433&noquote=1 remove the 1 at the end and hit enter while still in the URL bar and the page will refresh with the quoted post now shown.
bit in the reply to thread box. I'm looking for the one that quotes and adds the users name at the same time if possible!
Thanks
MrB
Thanks
MrB
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Bet Electricflyer will be one of the first to post 'this wasn't supposed to happen' when he/her is making his/her way to the job centre to sign on following the failure of BA if this nonsense goes on. Also remember IT IS NOT ONLY YOUR JOBS ON THE LINE HERE
The government will NOT get involved to save BA - they dont have the dosh to allow them to so dismiss that as an option.
BASSA hardliners - talk about turkeys voting for Xmas, this union needs to be crushed once and for all (I am certainly not a union hater but have lost patience with a bunch of idiots that have lost touch with reality)
The damage BASSA are doing to the BA brand and customer loyalty is significant and the damage has now been done. Less pax = less crew required, a bit ironic that this cock up of a dispute will already result in CC loosing their jobs.
Wake up and smell the coffee
The government will NOT get involved to save BA - they dont have the dosh to allow them to so dismiss that as an option.
BASSA hardliners - talk about turkeys voting for Xmas, this union needs to be crushed once and for all (I am certainly not a union hater but have lost patience with a bunch of idiots that have lost touch with reality)
The damage BASSA are doing to the BA brand and customer loyalty is significant and the damage has now been done. Less pax = less crew required, a bit ironic that this cock up of a dispute will already result in CC loosing their jobs.
Wake up and smell the coffee
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Great minds....
Have BALPA considered opening a CC section? After all, these seem to be many of you with a similar view to engaging the company and working with them. (Plus, you can charge them a tenner a month, it's good money you know, ask Lizanne and Len
Hence my remarks, a few posts back.
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Balpa an intelligent bunch, do me a favour. The only reason they compromised was that they could not afford to take WW on, he threatened to sue them. Otherwise we would have the same intransigence and stupitidy, unions are the same the world over.
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deeceethree
What is your problem?????
Are people not allowed to hold contrary views?
Just because I am in disagreement with my management why on earth would I not carry on doing my job to the highest of standards and in the same professional manner that I have done for the last 23 years?
Are people not allowed to hold contrary views?
Just because I am in disagreement with my management why on earth would I not carry on doing my job to the highest of standards and in the same professional manner that I have done for the last 23 years?
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Personally i think BASSA have bullied cabin crew and put those down for years that have had any opinions that differs to the union.They have also been known to print smears against cabin crew who are members of the union in their BASSA news letters .So in the case of Ms Malone i would say she got her just desserts.
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Hi Alpineskier,
No I don't think the Union was beig dishonest about not telling us how long the strike was for. Unions are not under any obligation to inform member on how long a strike action may take. We were asked if we would support an industrial action and over 91% said they would.
The union made it clear, at a meeting, that if we took strike actions it would not have been for a day or two.
If we went on strike for a day or two it would not have solved the issue with the company.
I won't reply to many of these posts, merely because I have already been told off for trying to make my point accross.
In your own words, please read my previous posts.
I would like however to point out to those people who keep going on about over the 1000 people that took VR. Your information is incorect, I was at the High Court and the number barely reached 800, still very high but not over 1000.
Glamgirl,
I don't attack people, I simply don't believe in it. Bronx made accusations based on what he/she read on the papers. They are simply untrue.
I am not sure whether u are crew or not but surely you would agree that papers, mainly the Daily Maily, often fabricates stories.
Just to give you one example, on the day of the court the Indipendent front page headline was something on the line of 'BA cabin crew are changing their minds and they are not supporting their Union'
The whole article was based on the comment of one cabin crew member on the BASSA forum. What the Indepentent did not say was that, hundreds cabin crew members in the same post supported the Union.
I know that we will never come to agree on this forum but I signed up because I wanted to give you people our version of the story.
I am not a militant person and I support changes but I do not support dictatorship in any form or shape.
No one in this forum has yet to comment on the fact that seconds after the court case ended BA walked out from the talks.
I can tell you right now that as the court case was going on, both parties were making procress but then it went all up in smoke.
WHY?
BA has no intetion of reaching an agreemet peacefully, if you think that I am wrong ask Mr Walsh why BA walked out as soon as the injunction was granted?
I believe in trade Unions because I worked for employers who did not allow their staff a union representation, trust me it was not nice.
No I don't think the Union was beig dishonest about not telling us how long the strike was for. Unions are not under any obligation to inform member on how long a strike action may take. We were asked if we would support an industrial action and over 91% said they would.
The union made it clear, at a meeting, that if we took strike actions it would not have been for a day or two.
If we went on strike for a day or two it would not have solved the issue with the company.
I won't reply to many of these posts, merely because I have already been told off for trying to make my point accross.
In your own words, please read my previous posts.
I would like however to point out to those people who keep going on about over the 1000 people that took VR. Your information is incorect, I was at the High Court and the number barely reached 800, still very high but not over 1000.
Glamgirl,
I don't attack people, I simply don't believe in it. Bronx made accusations based on what he/she read on the papers. They are simply untrue.
I am not sure whether u are crew or not but surely you would agree that papers, mainly the Daily Maily, often fabricates stories.
Just to give you one example, on the day of the court the Indipendent front page headline was something on the line of 'BA cabin crew are changing their minds and they are not supporting their Union'
The whole article was based on the comment of one cabin crew member on the BASSA forum. What the Indepentent did not say was that, hundreds cabin crew members in the same post supported the Union.
I know that we will never come to agree on this forum but I signed up because I wanted to give you people our version of the story.
I am not a militant person and I support changes but I do not support dictatorship in any form or shape.
No one in this forum has yet to comment on the fact that seconds after the court case ended BA walked out from the talks.
I can tell you right now that as the court case was going on, both parties were making procress but then it went all up in smoke.
WHY?
BA has no intetion of reaching an agreemet peacefully, if you think that I am wrong ask Mr Walsh why BA walked out as soon as the injunction was granted?
I believe in trade Unions because I worked for employers who did not allow their staff a union representation, trust me it was not nice.
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From the Guardian ...
Thank you for your unbiased reporting on the situation within BA. That the airline is deeply in turmoil is obvious to even the most naive traveller: the Terminal Five opening debacle, lost-baggage mountains, price-fixing scandals and disastrous fuel-price hedging. Only when the public see their own workplace terms and conditions eroded will they spare a thought for BA cabin crew. And remember this: the dispute has never been about saving money; our union offered BA all it asked for, and then some. This is about control.
As a long-serving BA cabin service director, I would like to make the point to our passengers that this is not simply about money for us. We are hugely concerned about safety. Fewer crew members on board has serious implications for our abilities to carry out mandatory safety-related duties, yet we are forced daily to attempt to comply to the same standards with fewer crew.
So next time you go to buy a ticket with British Airways, remember that the cabin crew so vilified and undermined by their own employer have also been attempting to ensure the best is maintained for you!
When are they going to get it LGW crew have already been working to those agreements and is there a threat to safety
.
"It's not about money for us" It's laughable though BASSA screwed LGW fleet over and over and now the monster they have help create is turning on them .How on earth can they defend it all it's beyond me .To coin a phrase i would say it's over and out for BASSA .
Thank you for your unbiased reporting on the situation within BA. That the airline is deeply in turmoil is obvious to even the most naive traveller: the Terminal Five opening debacle, lost-baggage mountains, price-fixing scandals and disastrous fuel-price hedging. Only when the public see their own workplace terms and conditions eroded will they spare a thought for BA cabin crew. And remember this: the dispute has never been about saving money; our union offered BA all it asked for, and then some. This is about control.
As a long-serving BA cabin service director, I would like to make the point to our passengers that this is not simply about money for us. We are hugely concerned about safety. Fewer crew members on board has serious implications for our abilities to carry out mandatory safety-related duties, yet we are forced daily to attempt to comply to the same standards with fewer crew.
So next time you go to buy a ticket with British Airways, remember that the cabin crew so vilified and undermined by their own employer have also been attempting to ensure the best is maintained for you!
When are they going to get it LGW crew have already been working to those agreements and is there a threat to safety
."It's not about money for us" It's laughable though BASSA screwed LGW fleet over and over and now the monster they have help create is turning on them .How on earth can they defend it all it's beyond me .To coin a phrase i would say it's over and out for BASSA .
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I will say little more than to state that, far from this being a hollow victory in round one for BA and their crass, macho management, Bassa will now rise, like a phoenix from the smouldering embers of democratic injustice, to rear its ugly head again.
It will emerge stronger and more united than ever, its members galvanised and seething with rage, to fight another day.
That day will come soon. Public outrage will not be directed at the cabin crew next time; instead WW will have more than his work cut out to convince people that , confronted with a watertight and overwhelming move to strike, still his management style is not to blame.
It will emerge stronger and more united than ever, its members galvanised and seething with rage, to fight another day.
That day will come soon. Public outrage will not be directed at the cabin crew next time; instead WW will have more than his work cut out to convince people that , confronted with a watertight and overwhelming move to strike, still his management style is not to blame.
You may not have noticed, but the whole of UK PLC is pretty well broke, public discontent is at its highest for about 30 years ( for a raft of reasons - not just because of BA ) and just about everybody is looking over their shoulder wondering if they are still going to have a job next week. So as for winning the hearts and minds of your customers
For a bunch of over pampered cabin crew to try and strike when it will cause huge economic damage to a brand already in deep poo and willfully wreck over a million other people's plans beggars belief !!!
I know, why don't all the maintenance staff walk because they want shiny new tools for xmas ?
Or all those nasty over paid pilots be brought down a peg or 2 because they earn more money ( reason = because they are worth it ).
I get ( only slightly ) your reasons for discontent but to go on strike
PS: Think you would get away with it at Ryanair ??
Times are changing. As Darwin noted, evolve or die.....