British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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If it wasn't for Unions in this country we would still be putting small boys up chimneys. Don't bash the Unions without giving a thought for the people they represent and they good that they actually do. Because you don't agree with them in this case does not make the principle wrong
I'm focusing all my posts on the one so hell bent on protecting it's leaders' packages that it's willing to sacrifice the future of everyone in the company.
Don't criticise unless you can see where BASSA has acted well in this whole sorry mess, right back to the start of this dispute, in which case I'm all ears.
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Can you change the future.....
Hello,
I am posting on what it a public site. I normally stick to the closed forums. I am amazed at the bashing of Cabin Crew from both Pilots, Cabin Crew from other airlines and a few of the BA Gatwick Colleagues. Which saddens me. But heyho, my salary has doubled according to sky news.
Nevertheless, I picked this up while surfing...... so enjoy the future... remember you heard it first on pprune. I wish all those travelling over the Christmas period, a safe and enjoyable trip and Merry Christmas.
[quote][/QUOTE]Britain’s favourite airline risks becoming a carrier of misery
0 comments
Published on 15 Dec 2009
Rendering close to a million people miserable at Christmas is probably not the best way to win hearts and minds to your cause.
When the future of your troubled company depends on those people, their families and their friends, you may be about to learn the difference, the hard way, between an industrial battle and a public relations war.
Then again, there is something faintly comical about all the stern media voices busy deploring the threatened industrial action by British Airways cabin staff. As best as I can make out, they seem to believe that the right to strike should only ever be exercised when it makes no difference to anyone. Now wouldn’t that put the fear of God into Willie Walsh, BA’s chief executive?
That gentleman, in turn, provides an interesting case study in the practice of modern industrial relations. His firm is losing money, millions each day, and he needs to cut costs. But Mr Walsh is one of those uncompromising types who imposes “solutions” when he cannot get his way. Then he professes shock and horror because his workers rebel.
That part of the argument is unambiguous. When 92.5% of a workforce vote for industrial action on an 80% turn-out management can forget about hiring fancy lawyers, or attempting to paint the union leadership as mad militants. The cabin staff have seen the future, and they don’t like it. Are they justified?
BA is on course, it is said, to lose £750 million this year. Business passenger numbers have collapsed as fuel prices have increased. The company’s “no frills” competitors meanwhile continue to gnaw away at BA’s market share and the pension deficit, that essential accessory for the modern corporate giant, has increased from £1.74 billion to £3.7bn in the space of a few months.
Mr Walsh contends, moreover, that in terms of pay, staffing numbers and benefits his people are the pampered elite of the airline industry. He believes, too, that the business trade, the traditional source of BA’s profits, will never return to its previous levels. So he engages – and he should not pretend otherwise – in slash and burn. Airlines are vulnerable in a recession; BA’s costs make it extra vulnerable; and Walsh sees £140m in potential savings.
The chief executive’s problem, however, is that he is embarked on a strategy for which the recession is no more than a handy excuse, and his cabin staff know it. Nor is BA broke or anything like broke, despite current losses: before the economic crisis, and despite the pay and conditions now deemed intolerable, the company was returning handsome profits.
Mr Walsh seems determined, nevertheless, to turn BA into a company capable of competing with its leaner, cheaper, charmless rivals. As has been reported – no doubt thanks to the BA press office – cabin crew on “the world’s favourite airline” have an average salary of £29,000; those working for Virgin Atlantic make £14,000. Quite a gap.
But does it mean that BA staff are overpaid, or that the Branson brand is a little less cuddly than old beardie would have us believe? A Virgin wage is more than £10,000 below the national average. By all accounts, however, Mr Walsh’s people are well cared for, especially on long-haul flights.
He wants to cut their numbers and pay less to those who will work on new aircraft. He intends also to freeze salaries and allowances for two years, reduce canteen subsidies, cut holidays, and cap overtime.
But the chief executive will have to answer to his shareholders in due course. One widely accepted estimate puts the cost to BA of a strike campaign at £200m. So let’s get this right: £200m lost for the sake of a £140m “saving”? Wouldn’t it make sense to compromise on less ambitious cutbacks and actually save all of that £200 million?
What becomes of BA, in any case, if it ends up so “frugal” that it resembles any other cheap airline, with minimal standards of service and a disgruntled staff? Its existing customers pay over the odds for a BA ticket because they expect more than the “no frills” merchants are prepared to offer. If that perception is destroyed, and if the business passengers do not return, what, if anything, would be special about BA?
Veterans of the terminal nightmares and the ritual of the disappearing suitcase would tell you that BA has not been special in many a long year. Nevertheless, private company or not, it remains the national carrier. Strikes will have an effect across the entire economy. Mr Walsh can provide no guarantee, meanwhile, that his imposed changes will do the trick and begin to reduce losses. If he has got this wrong, BA will be looking for a new chief executive.
Then again, his cabin staff and their union, Unite, have some serious thinking to do.
They claim to be realistic. They point to the fact that 1000 of their colleagues have already taken redundancy, and that 3000 more have gone part time. Their real objection is not to cuts, they say, but to the high-handedness of the chief executive. Many might sympathise.
The fact remains, nevertheless, that strikes will infuriate in excess of 900,000 customers, many of whom will resolve never to travel with BA again. That’s not a judgement, just a fact. The memory of a ruined Christmas tends to stick in the mind. So, personally, as a matter of tactics, I would have waited a month.
The dispute is likely to be the first of many, in any case, as the recession’s aftershocks begin to be felt. We will see, soon enough, just how often “common sense prevails” when livelihoods are at stake. So will the managements who regard strikes as an outrage begin to notice that consent matters, that you cannot impose sacrifices by fiat and expect co-operation?
Probably not. Britain is out of practice in the grubby art of industrial relations. Like trade unionism, it wasn’t supposed to matter any more. For better or worse, it matters now
I am posting on what it a public site. I normally stick to the closed forums. I am amazed at the bashing of Cabin Crew from both Pilots, Cabin Crew from other airlines and a few of the BA Gatwick Colleagues. Which saddens me. But heyho, my salary has doubled according to sky news.
Nevertheless, I picked this up while surfing...... so enjoy the future... remember you heard it first on pprune. I wish all those travelling over the Christmas period, a safe and enjoyable trip and Merry Christmas.
[quote][/QUOTE]Britain’s favourite airline risks becoming a carrier of misery
0 commentsPublished on 15 Dec 2009
Rendering close to a million people miserable at Christmas is probably not the best way to win hearts and minds to your cause.
When the future of your troubled company depends on those people, their families and their friends, you may be about to learn the difference, the hard way, between an industrial battle and a public relations war.
Then again, there is something faintly comical about all the stern media voices busy deploring the threatened industrial action by British Airways cabin staff. As best as I can make out, they seem to believe that the right to strike should only ever be exercised when it makes no difference to anyone. Now wouldn’t that put the fear of God into Willie Walsh, BA’s chief executive?
That gentleman, in turn, provides an interesting case study in the practice of modern industrial relations. His firm is losing money, millions each day, and he needs to cut costs. But Mr Walsh is one of those uncompromising types who imposes “solutions” when he cannot get his way. Then he professes shock and horror because his workers rebel.
That part of the argument is unambiguous. When 92.5% of a workforce vote for industrial action on an 80% turn-out management can forget about hiring fancy lawyers, or attempting to paint the union leadership as mad militants. The cabin staff have seen the future, and they don’t like it. Are they justified?
BA is on course, it is said, to lose £750 million this year. Business passenger numbers have collapsed as fuel prices have increased. The company’s “no frills” competitors meanwhile continue to gnaw away at BA’s market share and the pension deficit, that essential accessory for the modern corporate giant, has increased from £1.74 billion to £3.7bn in the space of a few months.
Mr Walsh contends, moreover, that in terms of pay, staffing numbers and benefits his people are the pampered elite of the airline industry. He believes, too, that the business trade, the traditional source of BA’s profits, will never return to its previous levels. So he engages – and he should not pretend otherwise – in slash and burn. Airlines are vulnerable in a recession; BA’s costs make it extra vulnerable; and Walsh sees £140m in potential savings.
The chief executive’s problem, however, is that he is embarked on a strategy for which the recession is no more than a handy excuse, and his cabin staff know it. Nor is BA broke or anything like broke, despite current losses: before the economic crisis, and despite the pay and conditions now deemed intolerable, the company was returning handsome profits.
Mr Walsh seems determined, nevertheless, to turn BA into a company capable of competing with its leaner, cheaper, charmless rivals. As has been reported – no doubt thanks to the BA press office – cabin crew on “the world’s favourite airline” have an average salary of £29,000; those working for Virgin Atlantic make £14,000. Quite a gap.
But does it mean that BA staff are overpaid, or that the Branson brand is a little less cuddly than old beardie would have us believe? A Virgin wage is more than £10,000 below the national average. By all accounts, however, Mr Walsh’s people are well cared for, especially on long-haul flights.
He wants to cut their numbers and pay less to those who will work on new aircraft. He intends also to freeze salaries and allowances for two years, reduce canteen subsidies, cut holidays, and cap overtime.
But the chief executive will have to answer to his shareholders in due course. One widely accepted estimate puts the cost to BA of a strike campaign at £200m. So let’s get this right: £200m lost for the sake of a £140m “saving”? Wouldn’t it make sense to compromise on less ambitious cutbacks and actually save all of that £200 million?
What becomes of BA, in any case, if it ends up so “frugal” that it resembles any other cheap airline, with minimal standards of service and a disgruntled staff? Its existing customers pay over the odds for a BA ticket because they expect more than the “no frills” merchants are prepared to offer. If that perception is destroyed, and if the business passengers do not return, what, if anything, would be special about BA?
Veterans of the terminal nightmares and the ritual of the disappearing suitcase would tell you that BA has not been special in many a long year. Nevertheless, private company or not, it remains the national carrier. Strikes will have an effect across the entire economy. Mr Walsh can provide no guarantee, meanwhile, that his imposed changes will do the trick and begin to reduce losses. If he has got this wrong, BA will be looking for a new chief executive.
Then again, his cabin staff and their union, Unite, have some serious thinking to do.
They claim to be realistic. They point to the fact that 1000 of their colleagues have already taken redundancy, and that 3000 more have gone part time. Their real objection is not to cuts, they say, but to the high-handedness of the chief executive. Many might sympathise.
The fact remains, nevertheless, that strikes will infuriate in excess of 900,000 customers, many of whom will resolve never to travel with BA again. That’s not a judgement, just a fact. The memory of a ruined Christmas tends to stick in the mind. So, personally, as a matter of tactics, I would have waited a month.
The dispute is likely to be the first of many, in any case, as the recession’s aftershocks begin to be felt. We will see, soon enough, just how often “common sense prevails” when livelihoods are at stake. So will the managements who regard strikes as an outrage begin to notice that consent matters, that you cannot impose sacrifices by fiat and expect co-operation?
Probably not. Britain is out of practice in the grubby art of industrial relations. Like trade unionism, it wasn’t supposed to matter any more. For better or worse, it matters now
Last edited by Twrecks; 17th Dec 2009 at 20:38.
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While we're at it, let's have some more pro-BASSA prose from the Socialist Worker. Let's hear it, Dave Spart!:
On the decision of one woman judge and at the behest of British Airways bosses, the workers of Britain and their trade unions have been told that the democratic right to strike has been cancelled. This "disgraceful legal judgment" as the union Unite correctly called it, makes voting in any union ballot almost irrelevant if it does not suit the wishes of the bosses and their friends in the judiciary. Any strike can be declared 'illegal'.
Every commentator has admitted that the so-called ballot irregularities would not have made a blind bit of difference to the outcome of the strike ballot. Unless the whole trade union movement faces up to what is required then the unions face the danger of being put back in legal terms to the infamous Taff Vale judgment of 1906 which made unions liable for commercial damages following the effect of any strikes they organised.
This is a 'dictatorship of the bosses' that must be fought against. If Unite does not defy the law on this occasion but instead simply organises a re-ballot then who can say that the bosses won't find other 'irregularities' in the new ballot? The BA bosses wanted this judgment not only to stop the strike action but also to determine that it won't happen when it is most inconvenient to them, ie at Christmas time.
While taking any possible measures to avoid unnecessarily risking its funds, Unite should be prepared to defy the law by going ahead with the action, and by calling on all their members in BA to come out on strike for a least a day in a massive demo at Heathrow against the bosses' law. If the courts then come for the union's funds then the whole of the trade union movement should come to Unite's aid in defence of democratic rights and the trade unions.
The bosses have, by this judgement, declared war on the whole trade union movement so it is incumbent on the TUC to lead the struggle in defence of workers' democratic rights and organise a national demonstration as soon as possible around the slogan of defending the right to strike. This show of strength could be the first step in preparing, if necessary, for a one day general strike of the entire trade union movement.
As a minimum reaction to this whole disgraceful process, Unite should immediately stop paying any more money to the Labour Party, as the Labour government continues to support the anti-union laws.
The court judgment came a day after bosses of the Scottish airline Flyglobespan threw 800 workers on the stones as their company collapsed. Seeing the court injunction obtained by BA, there will be massive anger from workers across Britain that their votes can count for nothing and the vote of one judge can overturn the votes of thousands of cabin crew.
The cabin crew strike was set to be the biggest battle that British Airways has faced in decades. The determination of the workers to oppose the plans of the bosses was indicated in the overwhelming vote for strike action - 92% - on an unprecedented turnout of over 80%.
The judge's decision to outlaw the ballot despite this overwhelming vote, shows that the anti-union laws have nothing to do with democracy, but on the contrary are proving once again that they are bosses' laws designed to weigh heavily against workers' interests.
Union ballots are hemmed in with more regulations than there are fences on the Grand National, which means that if you fall at any hurdle then you are out of the game. The ballot timetable requires weeks of preparation by the union involved, to ensure that the bosses are provided with the details of exactly who the union intends to ballot and where they work, and that the wording on the ballot paper is approved, including stating that the workers know they are putting themselves 'outside their contract of employment' if they strike.
If this wasn't enough then the boss can ask the courts to declare a ballot invalid if the job description of the workers being asked to ballot is not described accurately enough.
It is about time that the unions declare that they have had enough of these legal shenanigans, where highly paid lawyers, as in this case, can describe the union as "disgracefully ignoring the legal requirements of the ballot".
It is clear that even the most rigorous application of the ballot rules by a union will always be infringed, however slightly. This can be enough for the ballot to be declared illegal and the union to be forced to start the whole time consuming process once again.
The vote for action and announcement of a 12 day strike shook BA boss Willie Walsh and the rest of the management to their very roots. They thought they could intimidate the cabin crew into accepting their dictates of lower wages and increased workloads. But the workers have seen through his plans and are committed to defeating them. If Walsh and his fellow directors thought they could easily overcome the opposition of the cabin crew then they have had an almighty shock.
The venom of the bosses against their own workforce was described as a "war to the death" in the Independent. The Guardian described the bosses' plans as "a classic race to the bottom" and the working conditions on the budget airlines which Walsh wants for his workers as "frankly poor".
The vote brought out the hatred of the managers towards their own workers. "We used to hose the cabin crew down with cash every time they complained" said a former BA senior manager. The level of mistrust in the management by the workers was indicated on a blog by one that said: "Trust BA management? I'd rather let Doctor Shipman look after my folks for the weekend".
The bosses tried to pretend that the cabin crew are no more than pawns in the hands of their trade union and they were intent on pushing the union out of the door in this battle. But they have been taken aback by the support of the workers for the union in defence of existing agreements.
The venom of much of the press has been turned on the workers, calling strikes in the modern era 'outdated' and a 'waste of time'. The Guardian did however question whether strikes are a waste of time, by asking how much worse things would have been for strikers in the 1980s "or the BA staff now if they did not take (or threaten to take) industrial action?".
This BA strike, if it happens over Christmas or following a re-ballot, will be one of the most important strikes of the decade. The response of the bosses everywhere to the present recession has been universal: "Make the workers pay". In the private sector millions face an uncertain future whilst the bankers and the rest of the boss class continue to rake in their bonuses and inflated salaries. The bosses demand all this while they load the dice against any attempt at working people to fight back.
However, Derek Simpson, a Unite joint general secretary, said on television that the plan for 12 days of strike action was "over the top". Doesn't he think that it is the BA bosses' actions that are "over the top"? They are the ones after all who unilaterally imposed the changes on cabin crew staffing despite there being longstanding agreements to the contrary.
Simpson and all the union leaders' time would be better spent in answering the lies of the press, explaining the reasons for the strike action and why the bosses should not be allowed to get away with their attacks. They should point out to frustrated passengers that unless the union agreements are defended than it is their safety and decency of service on the aircraft that is at stake.
Bassa and Amicus Cabin Crew, which represent most of the cabin crew within Unite, have made the decisions up to now. They have a new leadership which seems to have the trust of the membership and it is they who determined the 12 day strike plan. There should be no change to this without the strike committee and the membership agreeing it first.
Heathrow and Aberdeen airport baggage handlers and check-in staff may strike before Christmas and Gatwick airport porters plan to strike on Friday and Saturday this week. It is clear that workers all round the country, many of whom fear for their own futures, are watching what happens with the cabin crew and hope that they will win their struggle. The unions should get behind the cabin crew and not let them fight alone. The old saying 'an injury to one is an injury to all' has never been more appropriate.
Every commentator has admitted that the so-called ballot irregularities would not have made a blind bit of difference to the outcome of the strike ballot. Unless the whole trade union movement faces up to what is required then the unions face the danger of being put back in legal terms to the infamous Taff Vale judgment of 1906 which made unions liable for commercial damages following the effect of any strikes they organised.
This is a 'dictatorship of the bosses' that must be fought against. If Unite does not defy the law on this occasion but instead simply organises a re-ballot then who can say that the bosses won't find other 'irregularities' in the new ballot? The BA bosses wanted this judgment not only to stop the strike action but also to determine that it won't happen when it is most inconvenient to them, ie at Christmas time.
While taking any possible measures to avoid unnecessarily risking its funds, Unite should be prepared to defy the law by going ahead with the action, and by calling on all their members in BA to come out on strike for a least a day in a massive demo at Heathrow against the bosses' law. If the courts then come for the union's funds then the whole of the trade union movement should come to Unite's aid in defence of democratic rights and the trade unions.
The bosses have, by this judgement, declared war on the whole trade union movement so it is incumbent on the TUC to lead the struggle in defence of workers' democratic rights and organise a national demonstration as soon as possible around the slogan of defending the right to strike. This show of strength could be the first step in preparing, if necessary, for a one day general strike of the entire trade union movement.
As a minimum reaction to this whole disgraceful process, Unite should immediately stop paying any more money to the Labour Party, as the Labour government continues to support the anti-union laws.
The court judgment came a day after bosses of the Scottish airline Flyglobespan threw 800 workers on the stones as their company collapsed. Seeing the court injunction obtained by BA, there will be massive anger from workers across Britain that their votes can count for nothing and the vote of one judge can overturn the votes of thousands of cabin crew.
The cabin crew strike was set to be the biggest battle that British Airways has faced in decades. The determination of the workers to oppose the plans of the bosses was indicated in the overwhelming vote for strike action - 92% - on an unprecedented turnout of over 80%.
The judge's decision to outlaw the ballot despite this overwhelming vote, shows that the anti-union laws have nothing to do with democracy, but on the contrary are proving once again that they are bosses' laws designed to weigh heavily against workers' interests.
Union ballots are hemmed in with more regulations than there are fences on the Grand National, which means that if you fall at any hurdle then you are out of the game. The ballot timetable requires weeks of preparation by the union involved, to ensure that the bosses are provided with the details of exactly who the union intends to ballot and where they work, and that the wording on the ballot paper is approved, including stating that the workers know they are putting themselves 'outside their contract of employment' if they strike.
If this wasn't enough then the boss can ask the courts to declare a ballot invalid if the job description of the workers being asked to ballot is not described accurately enough.
It is about time that the unions declare that they have had enough of these legal shenanigans, where highly paid lawyers, as in this case, can describe the union as "disgracefully ignoring the legal requirements of the ballot".
It is clear that even the most rigorous application of the ballot rules by a union will always be infringed, however slightly. This can be enough for the ballot to be declared illegal and the union to be forced to start the whole time consuming process once again.
The vote for action and announcement of a 12 day strike shook BA boss Willie Walsh and the rest of the management to their very roots. They thought they could intimidate the cabin crew into accepting their dictates of lower wages and increased workloads. But the workers have seen through his plans and are committed to defeating them. If Walsh and his fellow directors thought they could easily overcome the opposition of the cabin crew then they have had an almighty shock.
The venom of the bosses against their own workforce was described as a "war to the death" in the Independent. The Guardian described the bosses' plans as "a classic race to the bottom" and the working conditions on the budget airlines which Walsh wants for his workers as "frankly poor".
The vote brought out the hatred of the managers towards their own workers. "We used to hose the cabin crew down with cash every time they complained" said a former BA senior manager. The level of mistrust in the management by the workers was indicated on a blog by one that said: "Trust BA management? I'd rather let Doctor Shipman look after my folks for the weekend".
The bosses tried to pretend that the cabin crew are no more than pawns in the hands of their trade union and they were intent on pushing the union out of the door in this battle. But they have been taken aback by the support of the workers for the union in defence of existing agreements.
The venom of much of the press has been turned on the workers, calling strikes in the modern era 'outdated' and a 'waste of time'. The Guardian did however question whether strikes are a waste of time, by asking how much worse things would have been for strikers in the 1980s "or the BA staff now if they did not take (or threaten to take) industrial action?".
This BA strike, if it happens over Christmas or following a re-ballot, will be one of the most important strikes of the decade. The response of the bosses everywhere to the present recession has been universal: "Make the workers pay". In the private sector millions face an uncertain future whilst the bankers and the rest of the boss class continue to rake in their bonuses and inflated salaries. The bosses demand all this while they load the dice against any attempt at working people to fight back.
However, Derek Simpson, a Unite joint general secretary, said on television that the plan for 12 days of strike action was "over the top". Doesn't he think that it is the BA bosses' actions that are "over the top"? They are the ones after all who unilaterally imposed the changes on cabin crew staffing despite there being longstanding agreements to the contrary.
Simpson and all the union leaders' time would be better spent in answering the lies of the press, explaining the reasons for the strike action and why the bosses should not be allowed to get away with their attacks. They should point out to frustrated passengers that unless the union agreements are defended than it is their safety and decency of service on the aircraft that is at stake.
Bassa and Amicus Cabin Crew, which represent most of the cabin crew within Unite, have made the decisions up to now. They have a new leadership which seems to have the trust of the membership and it is they who determined the 12 day strike plan. There should be no change to this without the strike committee and the membership agreeing it first.
Heathrow and Aberdeen airport baggage handlers and check-in staff may strike before Christmas and Gatwick airport porters plan to strike on Friday and Saturday this week. It is clear that workers all round the country, many of whom fear for their own futures, are watching what happens with the cabin crew and hope that they will win their struggle. The unions should get behind the cabin crew and not let them fight alone. The old saying 'an injury to one is an injury to all' has never been more appropriate.
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So this clown thinks they should strike so they don't end up like the poor globespan troops!
Socialist worker, about as intelligent and thought provoking as the bnp, same muppets, different lies.
Socialist worker, about as intelligent and thought provoking as the bnp, same muppets, different lies.
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Because he will not continue to get funding if it all gets flushed away by pointless industrial action. It will become cheaper to lay you off.
I wonder how some of these people remember to breathe.
I of the opinion the company needs to fail to instil in these agitators the realities of business and profit and loss.
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We are still with you Bassa remember '' I would rather trust Dr shipman with my parents and children than trust Villie Valsh with my terms and conditions'' The fight has just begun remember a reballot will only make us stronger and people will fear more action ahead.
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Your powder is wet old boy. What's next a 24 day strike? We have 5 weeks to prepare. I'll be popping down to do my 2 day course at cranebank
and I'm sure the temps will be back in place if that's what's needed.
Oh yeah and your union is going to be bankrupt and the court case is going to back BA's legal right to man it's aircraft as it see's fit, not the union!
This was unites big socialist love in, they blew it, if the crew can't see how they have been used then they deserve the pain that's coming.
and I'm sure the temps will be back in place if that's what's needed. Oh yeah and your union is going to be bankrupt and the court case is going to back BA's legal right to man it's aircraft as it see's fit, not the union!
This was unites big socialist love in, they blew it, if the crew can't see how they have been used then they deserve the pain that's coming.
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Forget it! Dig Deep for Globespan!
Just for a while, let's forget about this and concentrate on a more important issue, PLEASE!
I am BA Ground Staff and my total salary is £22K. It was suggested elsewhere that ever BA cabin crew member should give £100 to help spread a wee bit of Christmas cheer for our "colleagues of airmanship" at Globespan who have just lost their jobs through no fault of their own.
I don't hold with giving £100, as I certainly couldn't afford that much, but if we all chipped in a bit to help cushion the blow and show them that we care about them!
Has anyone set up a PayPal account yet because Mrs Bealine and I will certainly put something in the pot?
I am BA Ground Staff and my total salary is £22K. It was suggested elsewhere that ever BA cabin crew member should give £100 to help spread a wee bit of Christmas cheer for our "colleagues of airmanship" at Globespan who have just lost their jobs through no fault of their own.
I don't hold with giving £100, as I certainly couldn't afford that much, but if we all chipped in a bit to help cushion the blow and show them that we care about them!
Has anyone set up a PayPal account yet because Mrs Bealine and I will certainly put something in the pot?
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WatersideWonker,
Keep repeating it in the vain hope it will come true. It won't.
Willie Walsh is not afraid of you. The Shareholders are not afraid of you. The passengers are not afraid of you.
You have been exposed for what you are, a lame-brained potentially damaging annoyance with no clue of the realities of the airline (or any other) business.
The whole thrust of this argument now goes to February 1st, and any actions on the part of your woeful union will only make you look more pathetic and desperate.
You can trot out your cliches as much as you like. I'd rather BA gave your jobs to an afghani asylum seeker than let you keep spoiling it for everyone with your greed and selfishness.
Keep repeating it in the vain hope it will come true. It won't.
Willie Walsh is not afraid of you. The Shareholders are not afraid of you. The passengers are not afraid of you.
You have been exposed for what you are, a lame-brained potentially damaging annoyance with no clue of the realities of the airline (or any other) business.
The whole thrust of this argument now goes to February 1st, and any actions on the part of your woeful union will only make you look more pathetic and desperate.
You can trot out your cliches as much as you like. I'd rather BA gave your jobs to an afghani asylum seeker than let you keep spoiling it for everyone with your greed and selfishness.
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Re: "Socialist Worker" article
The only point that Dave Spart omitted from his article was the fact that BASSA was caught with its pants around its ankles.
Whatever possessed them to poll the cabin crew on the voluntary redundancy list? That was BASSA's Achilles heel.
In the meantime, and back in the world of harsh economic reality, I have issued an instruction to all my staff NOT to book a single flight with BA until further notice.
Veteran business travellers have completely lost faith in BA's future and its ability to function properly. We are not going to be held to ransom by a trade union with a shameless lack of social responsibility and foresight in caring for its members.
Whatever possessed them to poll the cabin crew on the voluntary redundancy list? That was BASSA's Achilles heel.
In the meantime, and back in the world of harsh economic reality, I have issued an instruction to all my staff NOT to book a single flight with BA until further notice.
Veteran business travellers have completely lost faith in BA's future and its ability to function properly. We are not going to be held to ransom by a trade union with a shameless lack of social responsibility and foresight in caring for its members.
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Whatever possessed them to poll the cabin crew on the voluntary redundancy list? That was BASSA's Achilles heel.
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I'm off to bed now. Don't forget, if you are flying BA and you come across one of these grunting BASSA sourpusses and they give you poor service, don't hesitate to take a comment card, fill it out and post it from your destination (don't give it to the CSD unless you know it's going to get filed!).
Let's identify them, in case BA need to know which staff they are best shedding if BASSA continue to hurtle down this road to nowhere.
Similarly, if you are fortunate enough to have a great crew, get a comment card and fill it out with positive comments. Again, post it yourself, because BASSA don't want these comments, it only proves that grown up adults can do the service with less staff.
Night All. It's been a great day for democracy, and a crap day for ageing flat cap pigeon fancying 70's trade unionists.
Let's identify them, in case BA need to know which staff they are best shedding if BASSA continue to hurtle down this road to nowhere.
Similarly, if you are fortunate enough to have a great crew, get a comment card and fill it out with positive comments. Again, post it yourself, because BASSA don't want these comments, it only proves that grown up adults can do the service with less staff.
Night All. It's been a great day for democracy, and a crap day for ageing flat cap pigeon fancying 70's trade unionists.
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BA failed to supply names and leaving dates of people leaving on VR i also think the goverment got involved so as not to create even more problems for Brown. Don't worry pilots you may be next in line for Villie's cost cutting eye your deal is worth nothing when he looks at pay structures. So we must all meet up someday after the next ballot sleep tight don't have nightmares now.
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and the real polictics of unionism
I know there is frustration with UNITE out there, and believe me no one feels it keener than the reps.
I am going to stick my neck out here but I finally believe they are "on board" now.
They lack efficiency (all unions do) and BASSA make them look like a bunch of amateurs but we need them right now.
They have political clout.
The Branch Committee have been very active in recent days meeting with Simpson and Woodley.
It will never be perfect, but we are where we are.
We spend a lot of time nagging, cajoling, rowing, shouting, screamng, sweet-talking UNITE. The penny is dropping, albeit slowly.
There is no alternative except giving in to Walsh in his bunker.
We can't do that.
So let's all UNITE.
Thanks for all your messages tonight, it has been overwhelming.
I was at first down for half an hour but strangely now I feel even more determined, and before you ask I haven't touched the gin.
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I am going to stick my neck out here but I finally believe they are "on board" now.
They lack efficiency (all unions do) and BASSA make them look like a bunch of amateurs but we need them right now.
They have political clout.
The Branch Committee have been very active in recent days meeting with Simpson and Woodley.
It will never be perfect, but we are where we are.
We spend a lot of time nagging, cajoling, rowing, shouting, screamng, sweet-talking UNITE. The penny is dropping, albeit slowly.
There is no alternative except giving in to Walsh in his bunker.
We can't do that.
So let's all UNITE.
Thanks for all your messages tonight, it has been overwhelming.
I was at first down for half an hour but strangely now I feel even more determined, and before you ask I haven't touched the gin.
Report this post
BA failed to supply names and leaving dates of people leaving on VR
"did Lizanne Malones' response to a question posed on the BASSA forum by a Cabin Crew member taking VR and asking if she could vote lead ultimately to BASSA/UNITES defeat in court"
Bet you don't have the balls Watersidewonker, and you know I will be watching
Last edited by Da Dog; 17th Dec 2009 at 21:14.
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BA failed to supply names and leaving dates of people leaving on VR i also think the goverment got involved so as not to create even more problems for Brown. Don't worry pilots you may be next in line for Villie's cost cutting eye your deal is worth nothing when he looks at pay structures. So we must all meet up someday after the next ballot sleep tight don't have nightmares now.
I see you as a mid twenties admin assistant at best who has no understanding of the real world in general and business in particular judging my your ill informed and childish comments. Are you really so retarded that you think a high court judge doesn't know what she is talking about as opposed to baffoons like you?
There's a very valid bit of advice you should look into, be quiet and be thought a fool rather than opening your mouth and removing all doubt.
Another small bit of advice if you are ever going to rise above the mediocre in life, at least know what it is you are talking about before gobbing off.
Sime people just don't want to be educated.
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Beautifully put Albert Salmon. This debacle is far from over. BASSA will peddle uncertainity for as long as they can, I believe we are at a tipping point of no return. The vitriol now is too damning (this is the problem with internet/*******/facebbok/live 24/7 news casts - It's all too easy to be swamped by the info blitzkkrieg and lose track of reality, unless you work at it and sift the crap from what is really the problem) Prediction: BA folds in about 8 months time as pre-bookings fall away and the war chest empties on all of BASSA's induced uncertainty. The Phoenix rises from the ashes, with some very mediocre T&Cs far below what we have today.
The BASSA muppetry have displayed an amatuerish grip on the issue. They have sawn through the branch they sit on and lie wounded on the ground.
Beware the wounded Muppet.
Amateurs.
GF
The BASSA muppetry have displayed an amatuerish grip on the issue. They have sawn through the branch they sit on and lie wounded on the ground.
Beware the wounded Muppet.
Amateurs.
GF
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When the sh1t hits the fan, prevaricate
BA failed to supply names and leaving dates of people leaving on VR i also think the goverment got involved so as not to create even more problems for Brown.
"If a BASSA strike attempt fails - especially after an injunction has been obtained against the union- do all possible to put the blame on the employer's underhand tactics. Libelling the government is also a good way to shift the blame away from the union's organisers and activists silly mistakes. Remember what Abraham Lincoln said about fooling some of the people all of the time; it might just work when all else has failed.
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Watersidewonker
Have you asked the question yet on the BASSA forum?
""did Lizanne Malones' response to a question posed on the BASSA forum by a Cabin Crew member taking VR and asking if she could vote lead ultimately to BASSA/UNITES defeat in court"
Lose lips sink ships, this was not UNITEs fault it was all down to BASSA
""did Lizanne Malones' response to a question posed on the BASSA forum by a Cabin Crew member taking VR and asking if she could vote lead ultimately to BASSA/UNITES defeat in court"
Lose lips sink ships, this was not UNITEs fault it was all down to BASSA