British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Totally ashamed and almost lost for words
A member of my family rang me at lunchtime. They asked me to tune into BBC Radio 2, Jeremy Vine show. I listened with total compassion to several of our customers who have now had their Christmases ruined. I also listened to several crew members who tried to justify their yes vote and pending strike action.
In my opinion that didn't wash and following comments by some of our customers made it quite clear how many, many people feel about them.
Get the iplayer out and tell me what you think.
I have just had an email acknowledging my desire to work over the strike dates.
In my opinion that didn't wash and following comments by some of our customers made it quite clear how many, many people feel about them.
Get the iplayer out and tell me what you think.
I have just had an email acknowledging my desire to work over the strike dates.
Last edited by Clarified; 15th Dec 2009 at 14:32.
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BA announce legal action
British Airways is commencing legal action in an attempt to protect customers from the massive stress and disruption threatened by Unite's decision to call a 12-day strike from December 22.
The airline has today written to Unite, highlighting irregularities in the union's strike ballot, which the airline believes renders the ballot invalid.
The airline called on Unite to call off the industrial action by 2pm today. The union has not done so and British Airways is now seeking an injunction to prevent the strike going ahead.
Today's letter was the third sent to Unite, pointing out the balloting flaws, since last Friday. The union did not reply to the first two letters.
As a back-up to the legal action, British Airways managers have been establishing which cabin crew might wish to work normally during the strike period.
Willie Walsh, British Airways chief executive, said: "We are absolutely determined to do whatever we can to protect our customers from this appalling, unjustified decision from Unite.
"We do not want to see a million Christmases ruined.
"Unite was told about the problems with its ballot on Friday. Yet it cynically went ahead with an extreme, highly publicised threat to our customers and our business in the knowledge that it might not be able to carry it out.
"We remain available for talks with Unite at any time without preconditions."
ends
December 15, 2009 134/PM/09
The airline has today written to Unite, highlighting irregularities in the union's strike ballot, which the airline believes renders the ballot invalid.
The airline called on Unite to call off the industrial action by 2pm today. The union has not done so and British Airways is now seeking an injunction to prevent the strike going ahead.
Today's letter was the third sent to Unite, pointing out the balloting flaws, since last Friday. The union did not reply to the first two letters.
As a back-up to the legal action, British Airways managers have been establishing which cabin crew might wish to work normally during the strike period.
Willie Walsh, British Airways chief executive, said: "We are absolutely determined to do whatever we can to protect our customers from this appalling, unjustified decision from Unite.
"We do not want to see a million Christmases ruined.
"Unite was told about the problems with its ballot on Friday. Yet it cynically went ahead with an extreme, highly publicised threat to our customers and our business in the knowledge that it might not be able to carry it out.
"We remain available for talks with Unite at any time without preconditions."
ends
December 15, 2009 134/PM/09
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I do not know if this is correct but I read in the press somewhere, true or not, that the option for CC on the ballot ticket was..
Strike.
Not strike.
If that is the case and given the fact that one assumes most of the cabin crew are reasonably nice and sensible people, may one assume that the union stitched them up by deciding when to hold the strike after the ballot?
Those in the know will be able to correct on this?
Strike.
Not strike.
If that is the case and given the fact that one assumes most of the cabin crew are reasonably nice and sensible people, may one assume that the union stitched them up by deciding when to hold the strike after the ballot?
Those in the know will be able to correct on this?
I have just had to listen to a friend who voted yes complaining as her New Year holiday flights on BA are now stuffed. It would seem that she didnt realise that voting for a strike would result in, a strike..! I think she expected a day or two before or after Christmas, no more.
Live and learn eh. --Although probably not.
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maxfaxpax
I am AGAINST this dispute - but need to defend our CC now.
The pay structure and salary levels for BA CC have been negotiated and agreed by the company and the trade unions - which is probably also the case at VS.
When VS is recruiting - it seems to be an ongoing recruitment - probably because they cannot keep their crew - my bet is because of their lousy pay deal. A friend of mine used to work for VS - he was full-time but still had a part-time job on the side because he could not be able to support himself otherwise.
I am AGAINST this dispute - but need to defend our CC now.
The pay structure and salary levels for BA CC have been negotiated and agreed by the company and the trade unions - which is probably also the case at VS.
When VS is recruiting - it seems to be an ongoing recruitment - probably because they cannot keep their crew - my bet is because of their lousy pay deal. A friend of mine used to work for VS - he was full-time but still had a part-time job on the side because he could not be able to support himself otherwise.
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I have often posted on the SLF forum as a strong supporter of BA, sometimes feeling like a lone voice. People are moving away from BA to the other airlines in large numbers already, this will only increase now. I doubt they will return. It would be very nice to return to the golden era of flying but those times are long gone.
My wife (a gold executive card holder) works in HR for a very large american company and has over the past few years been involved in large scale reductions in staff due to falling income and mergers. It is not easy and no one likes it but for a company to survive it MUST be done.
Willie Walsh is not the devil and if he fails to change BA then he will go and another will replace him, but he or she will still push forward with reforms.
We have two flights with BA booked for next year (Jan & March) and will continue to use BA as we believe in the brand. We have flown with others airlines but always prefer BA.
We have friends due to visit us over the holiday flying with BA, I hope they can make it.
As a regular on other forums I believe that Flying Chick is not BA CC, just someone playing devils advocate.
My wife (a gold executive card holder) works in HR for a very large american company and has over the past few years been involved in large scale reductions in staff due to falling income and mergers. It is not easy and no one likes it but for a company to survive it MUST be done.
Willie Walsh is not the devil and if he fails to change BA then he will go and another will replace him, but he or she will still push forward with reforms.
We have two flights with BA booked for next year (Jan & March) and will continue to use BA as we believe in the brand. We have flown with others airlines but always prefer BA.
We have friends due to visit us over the holiday flying with BA, I hope they can make it.
As a regular on other forums I believe that Flying Chick is not BA CC, just someone playing devils advocate.
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overstress..
Thank you but that does not really answer my question.
The cabin crew are being given a very bad press so what I wanted to know was if the CC knew, when they voted to strike, the dates on which the strike would take place or was that something decided after the vote to strike was in and ,if so, who made the date decision.
Thank you but that does not really answer my question.
The cabin crew are being given a very bad press so what I wanted to know was if the CC knew, when they voted to strike, the dates on which the strike would take place or was that something decided after the vote to strike was in and ,if so, who made the date decision.
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In the PR war it is clear management is way ahead. Check out the forums at Flyertalk for the view of customers/passengers. And contrast these two comments...
Union
Management
Even if WW can't get an injunction against the strike he will be on television letting everybody know that they did everything they could and the true grinch is the union.
Union
Ruined Christmases will eventually be forgotten, certainly by next Christmas, but your terms and conditions are something you will have with you for the rest of your working life.
Willie Walsh, British Airways chief executive, said: "We are absolutely determined to do whatever we can to protect our customers from this appalling, unjustified decision from Unite.
"We do not want to see a million Christmases ruined.
"We do not want to see a million Christmases ruined.
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The LHR CC pay and conditions have hardly changed since privatisation. Oddly enough due to feckless management in the past the BASSA Union has successfully stonewalled ANY attempt over the past 20 years or so to change LHR Long Haul terms.
What other airline pays a bonus if the Cabin Crew are late?
All other departments within BA, including the baggage loaders and the push back crews, normally some of the most difficult, have agreed changes in the current climate. Why should CC be any different?
BA doesn't want lifers in the cabin. BA want, as Virgin does, CC to come, spend a few years enjoying the job and then go off to do something else. A few 'senior' crew around to co-ordinate the service and the job is done.
Aircraft have gone from 4 pilots/navigators/flight engineers down to 3 pilots/navs/FE down to 2 pilots and the safety record has gone up. Why are CC so different? If it is such a momentous safety issue to drop 1 crew then why do the CAA set minimums well below the BA crewing levels?
Passengers today have, quite rightly, been venting anger at the crews in the run up to this mess and it will get worse.
Back down Unite and protect those other members of your 'umbrella' Union that will have to pay the fine when you get caught by the Courts.
This has NOTHING to do with CC, this has everything to do with a pathetic attempt to wrestle the reigns of power from WW.
Give it up and let the management run the company.
What other airline pays a bonus if the Cabin Crew are late?
All other departments within BA, including the baggage loaders and the push back crews, normally some of the most difficult, have agreed changes in the current climate. Why should CC be any different?
BA doesn't want lifers in the cabin. BA want, as Virgin does, CC to come, spend a few years enjoying the job and then go off to do something else. A few 'senior' crew around to co-ordinate the service and the job is done.
Aircraft have gone from 4 pilots/navigators/flight engineers down to 3 pilots/navs/FE down to 2 pilots and the safety record has gone up. Why are CC so different? If it is such a momentous safety issue to drop 1 crew then why do the CAA set minimums well below the BA crewing levels?
Passengers today have, quite rightly, been venting anger at the crews in the run up to this mess and it will get worse.
Back down Unite and protect those other members of your 'umbrella' Union that will have to pay the fine when you get caught by the Courts.
This has NOTHING to do with CC, this has everything to do with a pathetic attempt to wrestle the reigns of power from WW.
Give it up and let the management run the company.
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I also just had the confirmation e-mail confirming my intent to work during the strike! I really really hope that there will be many more crew putting their names down. Yes.... I do feel very anxious about the whole situation and crossing the picket line.... but I will come into work with my head held up high!!!
Also..... it seems like the first 'cracks' are appearing in 'BASSA's stronghold'..... I have spoken to a few colleagues / friends on the phone now who have admitted they feel they have done the wrong thing by voting yes. I didn't even bother to go back over all the arguments why not to strike as I have done this many of times and they still voted yes without properly thinking about what that meant......
!!! I did however encourage them to put their names down on the volunteer lists to work during the strike.....
In my opinion we might be in for a surprise when BA counts all the names on the lists..... like me, there will be quit a few people out there supporting the operation and do our very best to look after our valued customers!!!
Also..... it seems like the first 'cracks' are appearing in 'BASSA's stronghold'..... I have spoken to a few colleagues / friends on the phone now who have admitted they feel they have done the wrong thing by voting yes. I didn't even bother to go back over all the arguments why not to strike as I have done this many of times and they still voted yes without properly thinking about what that meant......
!!! I did however encourage them to put their names down on the volunteer lists to work during the strike.....In my opinion we might be in for a surprise when BA counts all the names on the lists..... like me, there will be quit a few people out there supporting the operation and do our very best to look after our valued customers!!!
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Where will everyone be in 6 months time?
Reading all the press, emails and texts from friends in BA (FC and CC) and listening to passengers I think the Unions have mislead their members apallingly. It is all going to end in tears. I have just been trying to help a company that is closing down with 100's of staff losing their jobs. What do you think their view was of the strike? Any job is better than no job in the present circumstances - but of course the only people who will continue to have jobs are the Unite staff. Ignore the strike and go to work for your own sake and that of your colleagues. AND YOUR CUSTOMERS,THE PASSENGERS, WHO ULTIMATELY PAY YOUR WAGES.
TURKEYS VOTING FOR CHRISTMAS comes to mind.
TURKEYS VOTING FOR CHRISTMAS comes to mind.
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PAX have longer memories than we think
Commerical sepuku is what this mindless action amounts to. Simple.
When customers of BA see the mindless ranting on YouTube, the lawyer telling them how much protection they have, and with their payscales in full view, there will be no sympathy from the traveling public who have a longer memory than many seem to give them credit for.
My outfit has its fair share of self-serving union followers in our cabins, and frankly Willie Walsh is right. There is a world of difference between flight deck and the cabin - recruit in the cabin for those who want to do the job, travel for 8-10 years, those who show the right credentials move onto management and training roles, and so it goes on.
I realize my view might not be popular in my side of the Pond or in the UK, but there it is.
If flying chick is truly BA Cabin Crew - then god help you all!
When customers of BA see the mindless ranting on YouTube, the lawyer telling them how much protection they have, and with their payscales in full view, there will be no sympathy from the traveling public who have a longer memory than many seem to give them credit for.
My outfit has its fair share of self-serving union followers in our cabins, and frankly Willie Walsh is right. There is a world of difference between flight deck and the cabin - recruit in the cabin for those who want to do the job, travel for 8-10 years, those who show the right credentials move onto management and training roles, and so it goes on.
I realize my view might not be popular in my side of the Pond or in the UK, but there it is.
If flying chick is truly BA Cabin Crew - then god help you all!
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Just watched the Sandown video.
Why would you allow someone who is proud of the number of strikes he has led lead you in negotiation and into a strike that he obviously wants?
To add to his CV? To add to his kudos as a left wing union leader?
As for the flag raising picture, embarassing and disrespectful to the real image.
Look at fairly recent history and see what could be coming your way.
Why would you allow someone who is proud of the number of strikes he has led lead you in negotiation and into a strike that he obviously wants?
To add to his CV? To add to his kudos as a left wing union leader?
As for the flag raising picture, embarassing and disrespectful to the real image.
Look at fairly recent history and see what could be coming your way.
As a response to the BASSA claptrap, this is worth a look, all the way to the final second of the clip.
YouTube - BASSA Response
YouTube - BASSA Response
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Speaking as a customer...
I'm supposed to fly LHR->JFK on the 22nd, so have obviously have some trepidation as to the likelihood of getting there.
I actually feel sorry for the BA people who do work, and volunteer to do what they can; I suspect you're not likely to be thanked by the travelling public at the time, but I for one have been heartened to see that actually there IS a fair amount of "wtf?" going on inside the organisation. To me that shows there is, if BA survives, something worth saving here. You'll at least have my thanks, even if no-one else shows it.
I can offer a perspective, and a, perhaps rhetorical question.
I've travelled many different carriers; I've had good service, I've had bad service. Thinking about it in the round, I'd be hard pressed to say BA was /significantly/ any better or any worse than the rest; after all, it's so much down to 'who you get on the day'. But until this IA appeared, I'd had no idea as to the disparity in pay between the carriers.
Now good on you for getting such a great deal. Make hay whilst the sun shines and all, but sadly the sun has now set. Either I can't perceive the 'better' service, or it's not there - either way, the net effect is the same - people are no longer willing (or able) to pay for it.
I've had good service from EasyJet. I always laugh when I see that TV show with people vowing never to use them again because... they'll be back. Because they're cheap. And there's the rub :
I'm flying BA because it actually *was* amongst the cheapest. I've got a tiny number of shares, so that probably swayed my opinion. Will I make the same choice in future? Tough one. Not sure. BA is in trouble - but it's going to get worse not better.
What happens when RyanAtlantic (or whoever) extends no-frills to long-haul? Because if every seat comes with a free punch-in-the-face and pack your own lunch, I expect that won't stop a similar stampede to the one seen in short haul.
And make no mistake, O'Leary will fly with the minimum staff he can legally get away with, pay them market rate and gain a reputation for charging extra for everything.
And customers will love him for it.
I actually feel sorry for the BA people who do work, and volunteer to do what they can; I suspect you're not likely to be thanked by the travelling public at the time, but I for one have been heartened to see that actually there IS a fair amount of "wtf?" going on inside the organisation. To me that shows there is, if BA survives, something worth saving here. You'll at least have my thanks, even if no-one else shows it.
I can offer a perspective, and a, perhaps rhetorical question.
I've travelled many different carriers; I've had good service, I've had bad service. Thinking about it in the round, I'd be hard pressed to say BA was /significantly/ any better or any worse than the rest; after all, it's so much down to 'who you get on the day'. But until this IA appeared, I'd had no idea as to the disparity in pay between the carriers.
Now good on you for getting such a great deal. Make hay whilst the sun shines and all, but sadly the sun has now set. Either I can't perceive the 'better' service, or it's not there - either way, the net effect is the same - people are no longer willing (or able) to pay for it.
I've had good service from EasyJet. I always laugh when I see that TV show with people vowing never to use them again because... they'll be back. Because they're cheap. And there's the rub :
I'm flying BA because it actually *was* amongst the cheapest. I've got a tiny number of shares, so that probably swayed my opinion. Will I make the same choice in future? Tough one. Not sure. BA is in trouble - but it's going to get worse not better.
What happens when RyanAtlantic (or whoever) extends no-frills to long-haul? Because if every seat comes with a free punch-in-the-face and pack your own lunch, I expect that won't stop a similar stampede to the one seen in short haul.
And make no mistake, O'Leary will fly with the minimum staff he can legally get away with, pay them market rate and gain a reputation for charging extra for everything.
And customers will love him for it.
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I landed at LHR a couple of hours ago after a flight from Africa and let me tell you that the reaction of one particular passenger wasn't too nice. A frequent traveller who has flown with BA for many years and does so a couple of times a month. He said straight into my face that he is hoping that WW sacks the lot of us because we deserve it and need to be taught a lesson. A comment well called for.
I really hope UNITE would come to their senses and call this off.
Good luck to the rest of you in BA having to face some very angry passengers over the next weeks!
I really hope UNITE would come to their senses and call this off.
Good luck to the rest of you in BA having to face some very angry passengers over the next weeks!
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And believe me I've been involved in lots of strikes...
If you are dismissed for going on strike any time within the first twelve weeks after the action commences you have an automatic unfair dismissal claim against British Airways which will cost them a fortune
Nothing in there that you will win it. If you get dismissed and Unite lose the court case for contractual change then you get nothing.
Jeopardy?
You bet.
Brilliantly done Unite. Lambs to the slaughter. I am looking forward to the next decades of BA without this dinosaur in the closet.
Loved the 'jibe' at the Pilots by the way. Shame we had exactly the same pay deal as the Cabin Crew 10 years back with all the 'payments' but by negotiation and modernisation it changed and, lo and behold, we don't have so much to save as the Cabin Crew? How bizarre?