British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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BA are playing a blinder in the way they are handling this dispute and are in a win win situation with todays High Court hearing -
they win the dispute must be called off over xmas
they loose and it is apparent to all customers (they are the people that pay your wages in case the BASSA ludites are unfamiliar with the word) that BA have done all in their power to minimise their current uncertainty.
BASSA have lost the PR war and have little or none support within the general population. The youtube video of the results - a major bloomer, union officials spouting of as though they are still in the 70's, the CC member on tv yesterday morning that admitted that when he votes yes he didnt realise it was for 12 days of action and had no idea that it would be over xmas - both of which made him feel uncomforable with the way the situation was being handled. The fact that LGW crew had (with union support) agreed to T&C's very similar to those being introduced at LHR. As more of the facts surrounding this situation comes out any public support for this IA is melting faster than snow in a heatwave.
I am ex crew and read this tread with a combination of interst and horror. To those of you that plan to work I salute you, to those that are uncertain of the real situation take a few hours and read this thread. To those that want the IA to go ahead I hope your career aspirations include a desire to work on A319's dressed in orange weilding a dustpan and brush during turnarounds
In the current climate staff need to work to protect their employer and their jobs - simple as
they win the dispute must be called off over xmas
they loose and it is apparent to all customers (they are the people that pay your wages in case the BASSA ludites are unfamiliar with the word) that BA have done all in their power to minimise their current uncertainty.
BASSA have lost the PR war and have little or none support within the general population. The youtube video of the results - a major bloomer, union officials spouting of as though they are still in the 70's, the CC member on tv yesterday morning that admitted that when he votes yes he didnt realise it was for 12 days of action and had no idea that it would be over xmas - both of which made him feel uncomforable with the way the situation was being handled. The fact that LGW crew had (with union support) agreed to T&C's very similar to those being introduced at LHR. As more of the facts surrounding this situation comes out any public support for this IA is melting faster than snow in a heatwave.
I am ex crew and read this tread with a combination of interst and horror. To those of you that plan to work I salute you, to those that are uncertain of the real situation take a few hours and read this thread. To those that want the IA to go ahead I hope your career aspirations include a desire to work on A319's dressed in orange weilding a dustpan and brush during turnarounds
In the current climate staff need to work to protect their employer and their jobs - simple as
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The debate about cabin crew pay is a distraction as BA have not said they will reduce any existing crewmembers pay.
Unfortunately however, the press are having a field day over the reported salaries. It was the same with pilots ( I gross around £80k but apparently get in excess of £120k). To some extent the Firefighters when they lost all support as the public thought their pay and conditions were pretty good.
It's peoples perception that counts and the comparison with other airline crew. I'm no better (or I hope worse) than the pilots at other airlines and I get similar money. BA cabin crew are sometimes great and sometimes awful - but they get considerably more money than crew in other British airlines. They also have at least one more crew member onboard than their national and international rivals and even their own colleagues at LGW.
Imagine what your next Club pax thinks when he realised that as a graduate electronics engineer he earns less than the person serving him drinks and nuts.
The public have now got these Ts&Cs in their head and you're doomed as far as public support is concerned.
Unfortunately however, the press are having a field day over the reported salaries. It was the same with pilots ( I gross around £80k but apparently get in excess of £120k). To some extent the Firefighters when they lost all support as the public thought their pay and conditions were pretty good.
It's peoples perception that counts and the comparison with other airline crew. I'm no better (or I hope worse) than the pilots at other airlines and I get similar money. BA cabin crew are sometimes great and sometimes awful - but they get considerably more money than crew in other British airlines. They also have at least one more crew member onboard than their national and international rivals and even their own colleagues at LGW.
Imagine what your next Club pax thinks when he realised that as a graduate electronics engineer he earns less than the person serving him drinks and nuts.
The public have now got these Ts&Cs in their head and you're doomed as far as public support is concerned.
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I was (an still am, I guess) sympathetic to the reasons behind the dispute.
However, what absolutely sickened and disgusted me were the scenes of my cabin crew friends and colleagues engaging in "mob-frenzy" and displayed on National TV! It was disgraceful and disgusting - in absolutely no way should anyone be gloating over the potential misery and misfortune being inflicted on our customers!
These customers, I need to remind you, include servicemen and women who, without being melodramatic, risk their lives so that we can enjoy our staff travel and can sleep safely in our beds. If our squaddies weren't taking it on the chin, Al Queda may well have put a stop to British Airways long ago! The Queen'sSoldiers have no choice in their travel dates - they go on leave when they get told they can, as do many, many people with public service occupations!
I don't have a great deal of sympathy for WW or the Fat Cats on the BA Board, but I really agree with the comment about "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas!"
P L E A S E guys, TU Reps and Management both,.
IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO RECONSIDER AND GET AN AGREEMENT!
Please don't destroy our airline and our reputation!
However, what absolutely sickened and disgusted me were the scenes of my cabin crew friends and colleagues engaging in "mob-frenzy" and displayed on National TV! It was disgraceful and disgusting - in absolutely no way should anyone be gloating over the potential misery and misfortune being inflicted on our customers!
These customers, I need to remind you, include servicemen and women who, without being melodramatic, risk their lives so that we can enjoy our staff travel and can sleep safely in our beds. If our squaddies weren't taking it on the chin, Al Queda may well have put a stop to British Airways long ago! The Queen'sSoldiers have no choice in their travel dates - they go on leave when they get told they can, as do many, many people with public service occupations!
I don't have a great deal of sympathy for WW or the Fat Cats on the BA Board, but I really agree with the comment about "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas!"
P L E A S E guys, TU Reps and Management both,.
IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO RECONSIDER AND GET AN AGREEMENT!
Please don't destroy our airline and our reputation!
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Meanwhile, despite every financial commentators' articles to the contrary, the CrewForum love-in continues as the moral crusaders over there talk about how this is a fight for what's right. Or, more accurately how they'd like to "gob in WW's face".
Mind you this one did strike me as a tad amusing, rather neatly summed up the inability to think multi-dimensionally that stalks those hallowed web-halls.
Yup, that's right. Someone said something I don't like so BASSA needs to deal with it. If it wasn't so deadly, utterly serious I'd be crying with laughter.
In fact give it 5 minutes and they'll no doubt be claiming it was a pilot or a manager doing it because no right thinking crew member would claim that. Would they?
For any crew who post on here and bring reason to the debate can I make my plea again to ask all of us to treat them with the same dignity they bring. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who dares to tread the non-BASSA path elsewhere is being met with torrents of abuse and accusations of all sorts of mental-health issues, collusion with BA etc etc.
Watching this unfold is leading me inexorably to the conclusion that the BASSA machine would actively prefer to bankrupt the company to prove some half-conceived, 70's style political point.
Mind you this one did strike me as a tad amusing, rather neatly summed up the inability to think multi-dimensionally that stalks those hallowed web-halls.
A LGW CREW JUST RANG THE BBC AND SAID "WE HAVE HAD THE NEW CREWIN LEVELS FOR 3 YEARS AND IT WORKS FINE. LHR CREWS SHOULD WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE"
BASSA WE NEED TO ACT IMMEDIATELY HERE!
BASSA WE NEED TO ACT IMMEDIATELY HERE!
In fact give it 5 minutes and they'll no doubt be claiming it was a pilot or a manager doing it because no right thinking crew member would claim that. Would they?
For any crew who post on here and bring reason to the debate can I make my plea again to ask all of us to treat them with the same dignity they bring. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who dares to tread the non-BASSA path elsewhere is being met with torrents of abuse and accusations of all sorts of mental-health issues, collusion with BA etc etc.
Watching this unfold is leading me inexorably to the conclusion that the BASSA machine would actively prefer to bankrupt the company to prove some half-conceived, 70's style political point.
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As a member of the public and not CC, my perception is that this is all about UNITE trying to flex their (wasting) muscle, and very little to do with T's & C's.
I was absolutely disgusted by the Youtube video of members cheering a successful strike ballot.
As others have already mentioned, the PR battle is already over, and UNITE have lost.
I always used to think of BA as the flag carrier, something slightly special compared to other airlines, but not any more. This episode just illustrates that the union seems to want to keep the company in the past, even if it ultimately leads to its demise.
Virgin must be lapping this up.
I hope, for ALL concerned, the strike is averted and common sense prevails.
Isn't Christmas a time of hope..........................?
I was absolutely disgusted by the Youtube video of members cheering a successful strike ballot.
As others have already mentioned, the PR battle is already over, and UNITE have lost.
I always used to think of BA as the flag carrier, something slightly special compared to other airlines, but not any more. This episode just illustrates that the union seems to want to keep the company in the past, even if it ultimately leads to its demise.
Virgin must be lapping this up.
I hope, for ALL concerned, the strike is averted and common sense prevails.
Isn't Christmas a time of hope..........................?
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MrBunker I am sure that posting that here is illegal and I am going to tell BASSA's lawyers to take action against you.
Worth noting that all BA's rivals are cashing in and average fares have risen 40%. So congratulations BASSA and the Unite retards, not only have you done immense damage to your own airline, but you've given all of its rivals a welcome and unexpected financial windfall, not to mention the opportunity to permanently poach your former customers. Which means BA will probably now need even less of you (no loss there).
And some of you are proud of yourselves?
Worth noting that all BA's rivals are cashing in and average fares have risen 40%. So congratulations BASSA and the Unite retards, not only have you done immense damage to your own airline, but you've given all of its rivals a welcome and unexpected financial windfall, not to mention the opportunity to permanently poach your former customers. Which means BA will probably now need even less of you (no loss there).
And some of you are proud of yourselves?
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UNITE's Derek Simpson admits the strike is "probably over the top" but - and here's the kicker - appears to be claiming that the 12-day strike period was the "decision" of the BA negotiating team. Risible.
BA Christmas strike 'over the top' Unite union boss admits - Telegraph
BA Christmas strike 'over the top' Unite union boss admits - Telegraph
Join Date: Dec 1998
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Desertia,
Oddly enough I'm rather in the mood for a verbal scrap with Malone. The woman is leading tens of thousands of people to the dole office to satisfy the monumental ravening beast that is her ego.
Will BASSA fine me do you think? What a delicious prospect.
Oddly enough I'm rather in the mood for a verbal scrap with Malone. The woman is leading tens of thousands of people to the dole office to satisfy the monumental ravening beast that is her ego.
Will BASSA fine me do you think? What a delicious prospect.
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That was one of my highest months, my gross is no where near £48k.
My basic pay is £40k
Wage figures are always quoted gross, we all know that cc variable pay in BA is around £15-20k per year full time (long or shorthaul),
£40k + £15k = £55k.
Tiramisu, you are one of the good guys but please don't mislead us, you can't say your basic is £40k and then say you don't gross anywhere near £48k.
That implies that your annual variable is "nowhere near" £8k.
Clearly impossible.
The news figures are correct, remember they are also averages.
Confusing net with gross and hourly rates are BASSA favourites, don't fall in to the same trap.
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Plodding Along,
May I respectfully suggest you avoid falling into the trap of making the side issue of someone's reporting of their salary a main debating point? This issue is not about whether or not a CSD earns £50k or £60k (and, yes, I'm married to one). It's about a company finally trying to wrest control of itself back from a militant entrenched union.
Berating Tiramisu because you don't agree with his/her maths is not only irrelevant, it risks losing us one of the few rational cabin crew voices who post on her. Save it for Flying Chick frankly.....
May I respectfully suggest you avoid falling into the trap of making the side issue of someone's reporting of their salary a main debating point? This issue is not about whether or not a CSD earns £50k or £60k (and, yes, I'm married to one). It's about a company finally trying to wrest control of itself back from a militant entrenched union.
Berating Tiramisu because you don't agree with his/her maths is not only irrelevant, it risks losing us one of the few rational cabin crew voices who post on her. Save it for Flying Chick frankly.....
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I kind of agree, yet this whole sorry mess is all down to misleading information is it not?
92.5% of crew voted yes because they BELIEVE they are being screwed. They BELIEVE they are about to lose 30-40% of their salary.
My point only illustrated that if a real CSD doesn't believe the true facts then it is hardly surprising that they are all so easily mislead by their union.
BA offered an £8000 per year fixed monthly allowance, BASSA then published that as a paultry 92 pence per hour.
If the crew actually did the maths and worked it out they would see it was cost neutral or a payrise.
If the crew knew the facts and weren't so easily mislead we probably wouldn't be in this mess.
I don't care that CSD's earn £52k per year, others might but lets not deny it or distort the facts.
92.5% of crew voted yes because they BELIEVE they are being screwed. They BELIEVE they are about to lose 30-40% of their salary.
My point only illustrated that if a real CSD doesn't believe the true facts then it is hardly surprising that they are all so easily mislead by their union.
BA offered an £8000 per year fixed monthly allowance, BASSA then published that as a paultry 92 pence per hour.
If the crew actually did the maths and worked it out they would see it was cost neutral or a payrise.
If the crew knew the facts and weren't so easily mislead we probably wouldn't be in this mess.
I don't care that CSD's earn £52k per year, others might but lets not deny it or distort the facts.
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So the "worlds favourite cabin crew"( give me a break), to say nothing of a great airline, 40,000 employees and the travel plans of a million people have been sold down the river for the personal ambitions of a small minded union apparatchik from another century. What a surprise! Seems that the bankers and MP's are not the only shysters around!
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Mr Bunker
Berating Tiramisu because you don't agree with his/her maths is not only irrelevant, it risks losing us one of the few rational cabin crew voices who post on her. Save it for Flying Chick frankly..... 
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Not us!
Plodding along
Not that its particularly relevant, but Tiramisu like myself is a short-haul CSD and our offered monthly payment was £200 a month. Rather short of £8000 don't you think?
BA offered an £8000 per year fixed monthly allowance, BASSA then published that as a paultry 92 pence per hour.
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As the High Court hearing draws closer may i just say thanks to all those who have made comments on this forum i have taken them onboard and will filter them through to my work colleagues. I love nothing more than a big old debate so onwards we move 2pm today is that next step in this game of chess. Best of luck to everyone and that includes the £20,000 per hour lawyers im sure its the market rate. Nail bites are go !
Um, I didn't even realise this "newspaper" still existed:
BA cabin crew take on union‑buster|19Dec09|Socialist Worker
The linked articles are sadly somewhat timeless, they easily could have been written in the 70s.
Haven't seen heard or read such Marxist-Leninist-Trotskyist-Brownite-Blairite-Borisite-Millib.... (that's enough. ed.) since "Citizen Smith"
Do our Cabin crew colleagues know they are still held in such high esteem by certain elements of the population? I think they should be told.
BA cabin crew take on union‑buster|19Dec09|Socialist Worker
The linked articles are sadly somewhat timeless, they easily could have been written in the 70s.
Haven't seen heard or read such Marxist-Leninist-Trotskyist-Brownite-Blairite-Borisite-Millib.... (that's enough. ed.) since "Citizen Smith"
Do our Cabin crew colleagues know they are still held in such high esteem by certain elements of the population? I think they should be told.
Last edited by wiggy; 16th Dec 2009 at 08:42. Reason: To correct misspelling of Trotskyist.....I really should have known better
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It was not berating, it was highlighting a common mistake that has contibuted to this situation.
The press have wound up crew by publishing salaries, crew then look at their payslips or P60's and think the figures are incorrect.
The strike is a result of misunderstanding, misleading information, lies, rhetoric, hysteria, paranoia is it not?
Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps crew are underpaid, overworked and are about to lose their future and 40% of their income.
If that is the case then they are right to strike.
The press have wound up crew by publishing salaries, crew then look at their payslips or P60's and think the figures are incorrect.
The strike is a result of misunderstanding, misleading information, lies, rhetoric, hysteria, paranoia is it not?
Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps crew are underpaid, overworked and are about to lose their future and 40% of their income.
If that is the case then they are right to strike.
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TALKS
Sky just reporting that unite have offered to talk to BA at the TUC. BA reported to have accepted with conditions. Court hearing reported to be going ahead as planned.
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Not that its particularly relevant, but Tiramisu like myself is a short-haul CSD and our offered monthly payment was £200 a month. Rather short of £8000 don't you think?
£8000 is for longhaul, the figure is less for shorthaul because the variable is made up more from meal allowances that other payments. (CAT payments are less than box payments)
Overall the variable in long and shorthaul are similar hence the transfer list to shorthaul was as long as the other way round.
I am not having a go, just correcting a genuine error.
If www or flying chick had made the error everyone would have jumped on them.
Sorry to cause offence.