British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Right both sides are at fault however the CC have walked even run (reminds me of Garvaghy Road) into WW's carefully timed and constructed trap.
If only WW could bring such cunning and guile to the product he offers and if only the CC could reproduce the passion they have for this issue, to consistently serving their customers then the future would be bright (but not Orange)
If only WW could bring such cunning and guile to the product he offers and if only the CC could reproduce the passion they have for this issue, to consistently serving their customers then the future would be bright (but not Orange)
Join Date: Feb 2007
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So have BA cabin crew taken a significant pay cut since I left? As a Junior on WW I averaged a GROSS top line pay of about £25K per annum (NEW contract). No i didn't get to Narita or Sydney at all some years and I certainly couldn't remember the last time i did a back to back or more than a Box 1.
Indeed it's true that variable pay is hard to pin down as such a large ammount of it is Variable (3/5 of mine in fact) however go into epay and print off your Mortgage letter and you will get a last three months average,
Your P60 isn't accurate at all as it only shows taxable pay - and most aspects of Cabin Crew varable pay aren't taxable either.
The figures in the press don't surprise or shock me at all, and the repeated denials of those ammounts on here just ammuse me, they are AVERAGE figures so no some of you won't be on them - however they are independant, verfiable figures (CAA Website) - so denying them is pointless.
Other than that though the most ammusing thing about talking about it is that YOU AREN'T BEING GIVEN A PAY CUT. You are being asked to work harder during the toughest time in your companies history.
If you are not fussed perhaps you would like to swap with one of the dozens of people (some crew/pilots/ground staff from other airlines) I know who are out of work due to the financial crisis that isn't happening......
Indeed it's true that variable pay is hard to pin down as such a large ammount of it is Variable (3/5 of mine in fact) however go into epay and print off your Mortgage letter and you will get a last three months average,
Your P60 isn't accurate at all as it only shows taxable pay - and most aspects of Cabin Crew varable pay aren't taxable either.
The figures in the press don't surprise or shock me at all, and the repeated denials of those ammounts on here just ammuse me, they are AVERAGE figures so no some of you won't be on them - however they are independant, verfiable figures (CAA Website) - so denying them is pointless.
Other than that though the most ammusing thing about talking about it is that YOU AREN'T BEING GIVEN A PAY CUT. You are being asked to work harder during the toughest time in your companies history.
If you are not fussed perhaps you would like to swap with one of the dozens of people (some crew/pilots/ground staff from other airlines) I know who are out of work due to the financial crisis that isn't happening......
at the risk of being sued (or flamed)
can someone tell me what the real issue is that is upsetting everyone ? It seems just like a pay freeze and some relatively minor re-jigging (minor compared to what happens in industry generally) ? Doesn't seem on the face of it to justify this hue and cry.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Firestorm
I quite agree. I often criticised pilots for giving in and degrading their own profession. But what's done is done. The job of a pilot has rapidly become just that, a job. During the good times no one gave a tinkers cuss, but now, in the middle of a severe recession cc want to strike!
There are two things that have no limits. 1, the universe. 2, the stupidity of the human race.
I am a bit ashamed that we haven't managed to stand up to management ourselves, but have taken dips in pay, have to take our own meals, and even pay for our own training.
There are two things that have no limits. 1, the universe. 2, the stupidity of the human race.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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I've seen several people on here suggesting that BA have engineered this strike. Perhaps they need reminding that the strike ballot was called over imposition.
BASSA stopped negotiating. BA, losing 1.6 million a day, had to cut costs. So they said if they couldn't be agreed they would have to impose. BASSA refused to negotiate. BA had to impose. Then BASSA called a strike about imposition.
Seems to me that if anybody forced this situation, it was our curmudgeonly BASSA friends.
They can still tell BA where they can make the savings, though. Can't they?
BASSA stopped negotiating. BA, losing 1.6 million a day, had to cut costs. So they said if they couldn't be agreed they would have to impose. BASSA refused to negotiate. BA had to impose. Then BASSA called a strike about imposition.
Seems to me that if anybody forced this situation, it was our curmudgeonly BASSA friends.
They can still tell BA where they can make the savings, though. Can't they?
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Wow, talk about ridiculous. Having now knowing how much BA cabin staff get paid, I would have expected much better service on the flights I have unfortunately ever taken with Bastard Airways.
I stopped flying Bastard Airways along time ago because of the horrible service, and their ability to always loose baggage.
I am hoping what actually happens is that everyone boycotts Bastard Airways, and travel with someone else. I think this is what is going to happen, as a similar thing happened with Ansett in Australia. Their cabin staff wanted stupid pay rises, then went on strike, then everyone went with the other carrier(s). In the end, less people flew with them cause they were always going out on strike, and then they collapsed. I say bring on the strike, then wait for the bitching and running to the government because they have lost their jobs.
I flew my parents over for Christmas from Australia to the UK on Emirates, feedback was that the service was a million times better.
I stopped flying Bastard Airways along time ago because of the horrible service, and their ability to always loose baggage.
I am hoping what actually happens is that everyone boycotts Bastard Airways, and travel with someone else. I think this is what is going to happen, as a similar thing happened with Ansett in Australia. Their cabin staff wanted stupid pay rises, then went on strike, then everyone went with the other carrier(s). In the end, less people flew with them cause they were always going out on strike, and then they collapsed. I say bring on the strike, then wait for the bitching and running to the government because they have lost their jobs.
I flew my parents over for Christmas from Australia to the UK on Emirates, feedback was that the service was a million times better.
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Join Date: Aug 1999
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Simple solution to the problem:
At 1700L today, Willie should issue a 24 hr final warning to all cabin crew. Reject the strike, turn up to work as per the roster and crack on with a merry ho ho ho for the pax.
At 1701 tomorrow, all those not converted back to the right way of thinking will be sacked on the spot - its the least they deserve. And if you ask very nicely, you may be rehired - with a revised contract of course.........
When the survival of the company is at stake....
At 1700L today, Willie should issue a 24 hr final warning to all cabin crew. Reject the strike, turn up to work as per the roster and crack on with a merry ho ho ho for the pax.
At 1701 tomorrow, all those not converted back to the right way of thinking will be sacked on the spot - its the least they deserve. And if you ask very nicely, you may be rehired - with a revised contract of course.........
When the survival of the company is at stake....
But one thing I do believe is that the right to withdraw ones labour is fundamental. As long as the relevant procedures have been followed, ballots etc, then the workforce have the right to do so. They aren't slaves or indentured servants. Or oathbound (as in the military.) For myself, I've never felt it was appropriate for my circumstances, honest communication has always served me well with my employers over the years, and on those times where a satisfactory agreement has not been reached I've simply handed in my notice (and on two occaisions been subsequently rehired on significantly better terms. As in +50% salary for example).
But there is one thing that would make me strike; that would be if someone attempted to tell me I didn't have the right to strike! When the survival of a company is at stake ... (let me complete your sentence my way) ... you need your workforce genuinely on your side, this requires on-going open communication not last minute threats and bullying.
(Although of course the reverse is also true; this industrial action called by the union is disproportionate. The point being neither side is blameless here, both are playing to the brink and likely to fall over the edge. Very very silly.).
Join Date: Nov 2009
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The posts are flying in thick and fast. If you are serving BA cc, then I implore you to read a post by Albert Salmon, post #5182, page 260 (subject to the mods). In particular, his penultimate sentence is precise.
BASSA(Unite) have neither the wit, intellect or nous to extract themselves from this mess - they deserve all that is coming their way.
GF
BASSA(Unite) have neither the wit, intellect or nous to extract themselves from this mess - they deserve all that is coming their way.
GF
Join Date: Aug 2000
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And they STILL gloss over the issue.
BA can sack you when they like, for whatever they like, and simply take the pain of an industrial tribunal.
It's called unfair dismissal. But then, life can be unfair.
You would have probably got more money from VR.
(Let the video run and it takes you straight to a link for this years Eclipse Stakes. Far more watchable
)
BA can sack you when they like, for whatever they like, and simply take the pain of an industrial tribunal.
It's called unfair dismissal. But then, life can be unfair.
You would have probably got more money from VR.
(Let the video run and it takes you straight to a link for this years Eclipse Stakes. Far more watchable
)
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Just been speaking to my mate who is a shorthaul Captain for BA; he says that he & many of his colleagues will be refusing "commuting" BA cabin crew the use of his jumpseats from now on...well done that man, I salute you!
Join Date: Dec 2009
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video of sandown meeting
Just watched the video of the meeting at the Sandown racecourse yesterday and the very first question that was asked is:
'Can British Airways sack me for withdrawing my labour?'
And I noted that the rep from OH parsons says 'During the first twelve weeks you have protection and any dismissal would lead to you having a claim at an Industrial tribunal' (or words to that effect).
He did not answer the question directly , or so it seemed to me and his answer was not very reassuring at all (that is if I planned to go on strike).
I have not watched the rest of the video, anyone else care to give their take on this?
'Can British Airways sack me for withdrawing my labour?'
And I noted that the rep from OH parsons says 'During the first twelve weeks you have protection and any dismissal would lead to you having a claim at an Industrial tribunal' (or words to that effect).
He did not answer the question directly , or so it seemed to me and his answer was not very reassuring at all (that is if I planned to go on strike).
I have not watched the rest of the video, anyone else care to give their take on this?
Join Date: Dec 2009
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The answer from the OH Parsons solicitor to the question 'can you be sacked for taking part in strike action?' was suitably evasive!
Of course you can be sacked whilst on strike, it may well cost BA as a result, but this cost can be calculated in advance and may indeed be less than keeping you on for the expected life of your employment when compared to your replacement. A bit more honesty is required when Union reps are asked this question I would suggest.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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AtlasDrawer,
There is plenty of hard fact on this thread regarding dismissal. BA can sack you for striking if it so desires. However, if the strike ballot is legal it would be considered automatic unfair dismissal.
You will have to wait, jobless, until you get your turn at a tribunal where you can be awarded a sum of money which by the sound of it could be something akin to a few months salary. BA are under no obligation to reemploy you.
The OH Parsons spokesman deliberately avoided answer the question which was "can we be sacked?". The answer is simply YES.
He also said it would cost BA a lot of money.
However, a costly strike would cost BA a hell of a lot of money, so the use of this term is pointless, deliberately vague.
All of the information you need to inform others about the risks of unfair dismissal and the likely payout can be found in previous pages.
BASSA have continually deceived their members with evasive and incomplete answers to this very simple question.
There is plenty of hard fact on this thread regarding dismissal. BA can sack you for striking if it so desires. However, if the strike ballot is legal it would be considered automatic unfair dismissal.
You will have to wait, jobless, until you get your turn at a tribunal where you can be awarded a sum of money which by the sound of it could be something akin to a few months salary. BA are under no obligation to reemploy you.
The OH Parsons spokesman deliberately avoided answer the question which was "can we be sacked?". The answer is simply YES.
He also said it would cost BA a lot of money.
However, a costly strike would cost BA a hell of a lot of money, so the use of this term is pointless, deliberately vague.
All of the information you need to inform others about the risks of unfair dismissal and the likely payout can be found in previous pages.
BASSA have continually deceived their members with evasive and incomplete answers to this very simple question.
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I hope a few more Captains refuse jump seats for cabin crew making their way to and from work, they can't have it all ways, if the fare paying public are going to be wholly disrupted and inconvenienced then a dose of their own medicine wont go a miss !