British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Join Date: Aug 2002
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BASSA will not survive this
12 days of strike will cost BA what? £500m? BA are already expecting losses of about that for the year, so this year would be another £1b loss just like last year. Can BA afford that - no, not really. Would that destroy the company? Quite possibly, if you consider the pension deficits too. Will Willie let that happen? No way!
So, is Willie going to back down? Quite simply, he cannot - 1000 crew have already taken voluntary redundancy and left the company. It would be physically impossible for him to grant their wishes! Also the company will not survive if he does. BASSA seem unable to comprehend that BA will soon reach a point of no return, where aircraft depreciation is so rapid, that it is no longer a commercially viable business in the long term, because it cannot afford the depreciation of its assets and the cost of the finance required to replace those depreciating assets. BA needs new aircraft orders soon, or it is up the creek. BASSA do not believe this, but since those that are likely to give BA the required finance do, BASSA's opinion is irrelevant. So Willie cannot back down. The savings have to be found, and they cannot just be a two year loan (which no matter who's figures you believe, is all that BASSA have EVER offered BA in these nine months of negotiation).
The travelling public are so dead against the cabin crew that they will turn their anger to BA unless the cabin crew are dealt with firmly. I believe the minimum they would accept would be the destruction of the union, but I'd say they also want to see the cabin crew pay personally.
The cabin crew will not win this. Forget emotion, and what is fair, and all the rest of it. BA will not survive unless they win. Basically this means the cabin crew are in a lose - lose situation, and they have been manoeuvred into this corner by an outdated union.
Either way, BA's cabin crew have just made themselves the most hated work group both within the company, and outside of it.
Good luck BA.
So, is Willie going to back down? Quite simply, he cannot - 1000 crew have already taken voluntary redundancy and left the company. It would be physically impossible for him to grant their wishes! Also the company will not survive if he does. BASSA seem unable to comprehend that BA will soon reach a point of no return, where aircraft depreciation is so rapid, that it is no longer a commercially viable business in the long term, because it cannot afford the depreciation of its assets and the cost of the finance required to replace those depreciating assets. BA needs new aircraft orders soon, or it is up the creek. BASSA do not believe this, but since those that are likely to give BA the required finance do, BASSA's opinion is irrelevant. So Willie cannot back down. The savings have to be found, and they cannot just be a two year loan (which no matter who's figures you believe, is all that BASSA have EVER offered BA in these nine months of negotiation).
The travelling public are so dead against the cabin crew that they will turn their anger to BA unless the cabin crew are dealt with firmly. I believe the minimum they would accept would be the destruction of the union, but I'd say they also want to see the cabin crew pay personally.
The cabin crew will not win this. Forget emotion, and what is fair, and all the rest of it. BA will not survive unless they win. Basically this means the cabin crew are in a lose - lose situation, and they have been manoeuvred into this corner by an outdated union.
Either way, BA's cabin crew have just made themselves the most hated work group both within the company, and outside of it.
Good luck BA.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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not threatening just warning certain posters that is all. Plus, I can't wait to piss myself laughing with ozzie too when they come after the rest of our colleagues in other dept. the time will come. 
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Mr Q, that was a very poor attempt to justify this strike.
You use any words you like but you will NOT sustain one iota of support for this union backed and totally unnecessary action. The union as Steve Turner has said -
and someone replied - "moron" which just about sums up their thinking. Like most unions living in the past 'glory' of their predecessor's will soon realise that they have dug a massive hole that everyone will fall into. The sensible ones who didn't vote will benefit in the long run. It was, and is, a suicidal decision and as the days pass you will all realise it - as well as realising that the union is fighting its own fight not yours - you are their cannon fodder. Sad isn't it?
The cc's are paid a very healthy wage and the idea that they should have more it absolutely ridiculous, and it entices the fury of the majority. You will NOT get more money than you worth since BA could not afford it, and now they will no longer be able to afford it. Their financial losses will grow and the job losses will be more than they planned. This stupid strike has created that - see the suicide!
Though you obviously don't like it, or them, managers manage and they have to make the numbers work. If they don't you will all be subject to the hammer. To be honest you should have taken note of what the pilots, engineers and management did to keep their jobs safe and right now you are exposing them to the same problems you will inevitably face.
If it means anything I would tell you it is better to work these days. WW is duty bound to act on behalf of the shareholders, the workers are well recompensed so the management will do what they have to do. You will not get another job easily that's for sure.
Break the strike by going to work on the 22nd the union will be flaming but always remember that they led you down this rocky road and don't give a stuff about you.
Why not return the 'favour.'
You use any words you like but you will NOT sustain one iota of support for this union backed and totally unnecessary action. The union as Steve Turner has said -
"We don't care whether it's legal or not. It is unacceptable. The only way we have to address unacceptable behaviour from an employer is to strike."
The cc's are paid a very healthy wage and the idea that they should have more it absolutely ridiculous, and it entices the fury of the majority. You will NOT get more money than you worth since BA could not afford it, and now they will no longer be able to afford it. Their financial losses will grow and the job losses will be more than they planned. This stupid strike has created that - see the suicide!
Though you obviously don't like it, or them, managers manage and they have to make the numbers work. If they don't you will all be subject to the hammer. To be honest you should have taken note of what the pilots, engineers and management did to keep their jobs safe and right now you are exposing them to the same problems you will inevitably face.
If it means anything I would tell you it is better to work these days. WW is duty bound to act on behalf of the shareholders, the workers are well recompensed so the management will do what they have to do. You will not get another job easily that's for sure.
Break the strike by going to work on the 22nd the union will be flaming but always remember that they led you down this rocky road and don't give a stuff about you.
Why not return the 'favour.'
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"it would be inconsiderate to have a heart-attack and rob your fellow customers of their 0.6 of a min"
Well robbing your customers of 12 days of flights is OK then? They won't even be getting their 0.6 of a min
Well robbing your customers of 12 days of flights is OK then? They won't even be getting their 0.6 of a min
Join Date: Aug 2009
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120 class. I think the 'up to 3' refers to the 767 matrix for long Band 4 when extra crew were triggered. The Airbus matrix are up to 2 crew reduced and the Club config triggers have moved.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Mr. Q. "Walsh is literally trying to turn the national airline of this country into Ryanair. Not only do we think the crew regard this as a step too far, but we are pretty sure most passengers do too."
The world has changed. Ryanair exists because the travelling public wants it to. But then again, its the travelling public you're punishing. Where on earth is the money coming from to turn around the losses that BA are making, how is the pension deficit going to be set right? In a heart beat the CC union has alienated it's members from the rest of the world. Have a look on other forums, see what the customers say. They are looking for other carriers, your true employers are deserting you in droves. The union is not part of the solution, but part of the problem, fuelled by management educating everyone into believing they are an elite. It's going to be a hard lesson to learn, but there is no elite in the airline world.
The world has changed. Ryanair exists because the travelling public wants it to. But then again, its the travelling public you're punishing. Where on earth is the money coming from to turn around the losses that BA are making, how is the pension deficit going to be set right? In a heart beat the CC union has alienated it's members from the rest of the world. Have a look on other forums, see what the customers say. They are looking for other carriers, your true employers are deserting you in droves. The union is not part of the solution, but part of the problem, fuelled by management educating everyone into believing they are an elite. It's going to be a hard lesson to learn, but there is no elite in the airline world.
I am going to make sure legal action is taking against this website if people carry on copying and pasteing what unite have sent to union members.
LOL, thanks for making me laugh on this depressing day.
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Well, looks like BA is going to go spiralling down the pan. Doesn't matter what the rights and wrongs of it are, the travelling public will never forgive them. Even if it was called off now I bet the management would still leave the flights cancelled on the grounds they had to "plan for the worst".
Personally, I reckon if your workforce goes out on strike, the buck stops with the management. How can it NOT be a management failure? Plus of course good money says they want the CC to strike anyway. But its rather like in the olden days, if a naval crew mutineed they might all be hung after the event but a 'Captain' that mismanaged his 'crew' so disastrously would likely be finished professionally.
Having said that, a 12 day strike is just bonkers. They could easily do a 30 minute stoppage to demonstrate resolve without causing an unretrievable screw up. Hell, even 15 minutes would make the point. It like trying to get your kids attention by shooting them between the eyes with a .44 magnum.
pb
Personally, I reckon if your workforce goes out on strike, the buck stops with the management. How can it NOT be a management failure? Plus of course good money says they want the CC to strike anyway. But its rather like in the olden days, if a naval crew mutineed they might all be hung after the event but a 'Captain' that mismanaged his 'crew' so disastrously would likely be finished professionally.
Having said that, a 12 day strike is just bonkers. They could easily do a 30 minute stoppage to demonstrate resolve without causing an unretrievable screw up. Hell, even 15 minutes would make the point. It like trying to get your kids attention by shooting them between the eyes with a .44 magnum.
pb
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Surrey Towers [QUOTE]the idea that they should have more it absolutely ridiculous, and it entices the fury of the majority. You will NOT get more money than you worth since BA could not afford it, and now they will no longer be able to afford it. [/QUOTE
Please keep up. This dispute is not about money. No one is asking for more money. Everyone on here is welcome to an opinion but it is helpful if we are all discussing the facts and not making them up.
Please keep up. This dispute is not about money. No one is asking for more money. Everyone on here is welcome to an opinion but it is helpful if we are all discussing the facts and not making them up.
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flying_chick
Of course other depts will suffer cut backs, it'll be unreasonable to think otherwise. Unless of course you have an amazing business plan that will set the company back onto a profitable footing and plug the pension hole. If you could do that, then strike action could be considered reasonable.
not threatening just warning certain posters that is all. Plus, I can't wait to piss myself laughing with ozzie too when they come after the rest of our colleagues in other dept. the time will come.
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flyingchick
What is your problem?
In case you have been asleep for the past year - BA has already been negotiating with all other departments in the company and come to an agreement with each and every one of them - but you were probably far too self-absorbed.
You are such a disgrace to this airline - go and stand in the corner.
not threatening just warning certain posters that is all. Plus, I can't wait to piss myself laughing with ozzie too when they come after the rest of our colleagues in other dept. the time will come.
In case you have been asleep for the past year - BA has already been negotiating with all other departments in the company and come to an agreement with each and every one of them - but you were probably far too self-absorbed.
You are such a disgrace to this airline - go and stand in the corner.
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Personally, I reckon if your workforce goes out on strike, the buck stops with the management.
It is more like just the cooks having a mutiny on a ship. Unfortunately, the captain's recourse in those environs is no longer permitted
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Quite simply, Mon - Fri, 0900 - 1700, £55k per yr cabin crew salaries are not sustainable anymore.
It amazes me that CSD's are complaining about having to do some work where everyone else in the industry is pulling together to make things work for the pax.
In perspective, how much of an impact will the T and C changes make? Answer: A massive amount now - you will probably lose your airline due to your inflexibility and resistance to change.
Yes, I agree that it is right and proper to fight to keep your quality of working life, however, if you DONT HAVE A JOB, you wont have a working life to discuss quality for!
Your union reps should have taken a leaf out of the BALPA book and actually worked with the management instead of being so fecking militant.
I am in the fortunate position of working for an airline making money, with no threat of redundancies and with (relatively) good management relations. We will be only too happy to pick up the routes that are dropped as a result of poor industry awareness from the London Airways Unite reps.
RIP BA
BS
It amazes me that CSD's are complaining about having to do some work where everyone else in the industry is pulling together to make things work for the pax.
In perspective, how much of an impact will the T and C changes make? Answer: A massive amount now - you will probably lose your airline due to your inflexibility and resistance to change.
Yes, I agree that it is right and proper to fight to keep your quality of working life, however, if you DONT HAVE A JOB, you wont have a working life to discuss quality for!
Your union reps should have taken a leaf out of the BALPA book and actually worked with the management instead of being so fecking militant.
I am in the fortunate position of working for an airline making money, with no threat of redundancies and with (relatively) good management relations. We will be only too happy to pick up the routes that are dropped as a result of poor industry awareness from the London Airways Unite reps.
RIP BA
BS
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Good luck to all the BA cabin crew. This industry has had enough shaftings by management in different sectors over the last 15 years, and it is good to see someone stand up for their dignity at last, and T&Cs. The low-cost airlines pay their cabin crew an abysmal wage, and BA pay a top wage to get a top service. I would hate to see BA's service the same as BMI Baby or Ryanair's As a pilot I am a bit ashamed that we haven't managed to stand up to management ourselves, but have taken dips in pay, have to take our own meals, and even pay for our own training.
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flying_chick,
They already came for us, remember. You accused us of 'selling you down the river' for having the cheek to actually negotiate with the management.
P1ssed yourself laughing yet?
They already came for us, remember. You accused us of 'selling you down the river' for having the cheek to actually negotiate with the management.
P1ssed yourself laughing yet?
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Perhaps if my flight to Florida gets cancelled on 23rd some of the CC could pop in and explain to my four year old why he won't be seeing Micky Mouse and Disney Land this Christmas!! There are far less damaging ways to demonstrate your point. Messing with kids dreams at this time of year will gain you no sympathy from anyone and may well lead to the end of your jobs anyway!
I know this post will have no effect on the outcome but maybe it will make some of you planning to strike think a little harder!
I know this post will have no effect on the outcome but maybe it will make some of you planning to strike think a little harder!
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Simple solution to the problem:
At 1700L today, Willie should issue a 24 hr final warning to all cabin crew. Reject the strike, turn up to work as per the roster and crack on with a merry ho ho ho for the pax.
At 1701 tomorrow, all those not converted back to the right way of thinking will be sacked on the spot - its the least they deserve. And if you ask very nicely, you may be rehired - with a revised contract of course.........
When the survival of the company is at stake....
At 1700L today, Willie should issue a 24 hr final warning to all cabin crew. Reject the strike, turn up to work as per the roster and crack on with a merry ho ho ho for the pax.
At 1701 tomorrow, all those not converted back to the right way of thinking will be sacked on the spot - its the least they deserve. And if you ask very nicely, you may be rehired - with a revised contract of course.........
When the survival of the company is at stake....