British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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If some high earners had 30-40% a wage reduction i think they wouldn't be happy and im not saying any particular occupation. We as cabin crew are fighting to save our terms and conditions and that is fact and nothing more can be said until the Wee man understands.
Junior trash
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Hello we are the majority that voted yes. 9000+ you just cannot take it can you??
And can you really, really rely on all of those 9000? Werent BASSA saying that a yes vote was to get BA back to the table. How are they going to react when they realise that clearly isnt going to happen?
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GroundedChick,
I believe you too. Besides, every employee has the right to fight a cause they feel is just. However, I am utterly disgusted how you used your right to strike. Not that you used it.
That - and only that - is why the public and the customers are 99% against you. How does it feel to be part of the most hated community in the UK at the moment?
The following is a concern, not a threat by any means!
What worries me is that inflight violence and passenger aggression against CC has been on the rise and already reached unacceptable levels. I can only hope that the choice of Unite for a strike that causes this much emotion has not put its members at risk.
I believe you too. Besides, every employee has the right to fight a cause they feel is just. However, I am utterly disgusted how you used your right to strike. Not that you used it.
That - and only that - is why the public and the customers are 99% against you. How does it feel to be part of the most hated community in the UK at the moment?
The following is a concern, not a threat by any means!
What worries me is that inflight violence and passenger aggression against CC has been on the rise and already reached unacceptable levels. I can only hope that the choice of Unite for a strike that causes this much emotion has not put its members at risk.
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Can someone please tell me which CC has had their pay cut by 40%?
(OR 50% if you believe the Sun reader).
I can think of a few I'd reward with a cut of 100%, and with the public revulsion at BASSA and UNITE, that issue of "unfair dismissal" might well still be something to consider....
(OR 50% if you believe the Sun reader).
I can think of a few I'd reward with a cut of 100%, and with the public revulsion at BASSA and UNITE, that issue of "unfair dismissal" might well still be something to consider....
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Simon Calder is quite rightly taking a pasting from the BASSA diehards, but fortunately, as his newspaper is called the Independent it can publish and be damned.
I think the phrase "Any publicity is good publicity" does not apply to BASSA at this time.
In the mid-80s, union members tended to gather for mass meetings by bike, on public transport or crammed into clapped-out Cortina Mk3s. But surveying the car park shortly before the result of the strike ballot and Yuletide-wrecking industrial action was announced, it became clear the preferred form of travel for the revolutionary ranks of British Airways cabin crew appears to be the Land Rover Discovery or the Renault Scenic.
One of the latter vehicles carried a poster with a picture of BA's chief executive, Willie Walsh, with the slogan "Willie's out ... of his mind, of his tree, of his depth, of his job very soon." It also had a French registration plate. Because of the relative benevolence of BA's conditions of service, plenty of cabin crew successfully live away from the airline's base in London, returning only when necessary for a tour of duty.
Never mind another country: some of their counterparts in other airlines accuse BA cabin crew of living on another planet. When easyJet flies from Gatwick to Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt, its cabin crew stay for no more than an hour before coming back; when BA flies the same route, the crew get two or three nights, on full pay and while staying in a five-star hotel, to enjoy the Red Sea coast.
One of the latter vehicles carried a poster with a picture of BA's chief executive, Willie Walsh, with the slogan "Willie's out ... of his mind, of his tree, of his depth, of his job very soon." It also had a French registration plate. Because of the relative benevolence of BA's conditions of service, plenty of cabin crew successfully live away from the airline's base in London, returning only when necessary for a tour of duty.
Never mind another country: some of their counterparts in other airlines accuse BA cabin crew of living on another planet. When easyJet flies from Gatwick to Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt, its cabin crew stay for no more than an hour before coming back; when BA flies the same route, the crew get two or three nights, on full pay and while staying in a five-star hotel, to enjoy the Red Sea coast.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Perhaps if we ignore Flyingchick, she (?) will go away.
There's little point trying to debate with her as she seems convinced that 779 "No" voters is the same as 13300 "Yes" voters, especially given BASSA's history of all sticking together when it matters.
To quote a great leader
of the British Army:
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
There's little point trying to debate with her as she seems convinced that 779 "No" voters is the same as 13300 "Yes" voters, especially given BASSA's history of all sticking together when it matters.
To quote a great leader
of the British Army:
Originally Posted by Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett, 1917
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Mr Bunker you sure can type fast if it all goes pear shape you will get a job in a call centre no problem starting salary £12,000. As for sending the wife over any picket line that will be her choice (with your input) but her pay in the future years will drop drop and drop. If the husband can afford that drop when he only brings home £5,000 a month well you'll just have to scrape by.
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What are you trying to achieve?
There is a great deal of ill considered and ill though out comment flying around on the strike situation. Strikes benefit nobody – least of all the group who pay BA wages – the passengers. Leaving personalities out of this what would you do if you were running BA and facing daily losses exceeding £1 million and with a pension pothole of £3.7 billion? What would you do if you were operating in a deep recession with tens of thousands out of work and against a background of global warming threatening the very existence of your company and the industry in its present form?
You would do exactly what the BA board is trying to do. Reduce operating costs to an acceptable level. The T & C for those CC operating out of Gatwick are virtually the same as those being offered to Heathrow CC so it is not unreasonable for the Board to feel that that is acceptable. How do you think ACAS would view those terms?
Striking can ONLY do more harm to BA which is YOUR future, at least for the next few years. Do you expect a pension from BA some time in the future? You might get only a fraction, or a smidgeon from the compensation fund, of your expectation if the company does not recover.
Take a deep breath, thank your lucky stars that you have a job to go to, and look to the future with better prospects and continued employment for most.
I wish you good luck and would confirm that I have no interest in BA as an employee, or contractor, or passenger or a shareholder – just sad to see a great group of workers lead down a blind alley by a trade union flexing their muscles. I suggest you each, without announcement, report for work on the first strike day and save your jobs. Good luck. Virtually the whole of the general public would support your decision.
You would do exactly what the BA board is trying to do. Reduce operating costs to an acceptable level. The T & C for those CC operating out of Gatwick are virtually the same as those being offered to Heathrow CC so it is not unreasonable for the Board to feel that that is acceptable. How do you think ACAS would view those terms?
Striking can ONLY do more harm to BA which is YOUR future, at least for the next few years. Do you expect a pension from BA some time in the future? You might get only a fraction, or a smidgeon from the compensation fund, of your expectation if the company does not recover.
Take a deep breath, thank your lucky stars that you have a job to go to, and look to the future with better prospects and continued employment for most.
I wish you good luck and would confirm that I have no interest in BA as an employee, or contractor, or passenger or a shareholder – just sad to see a great group of workers lead down a blind alley by a trade union flexing their muscles. I suggest you each, without announcement, report for work on the first strike day and save your jobs. Good luck. Virtually the whole of the general public would support your decision.
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HF, Why should I go away? Why I am I not allowed to fight for what I believe in. We have voted legally and fairly. I am NOT happy for the passengers but WW certainly don't care.
I care passionately and believe in what i am doing and so do the MAJORITY remember that word of crew do too..
I care passionately and believe in what i am doing and so do the MAJORITY remember that word of crew do too..
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HF, I am against the strike, but I think your quote applies to both sides. Given the same numbers against you would have been shouting it from the rooftops too.
It is not IA that I object to. That is a right, we do live in a democracy and this can happen. It is how Unite decided to use that right which is disgusting.
If we are to have any chance to influence the yes voters who are now maybe on the fence, that is what we should be discussing.
It is not IA that I object to. That is a right, we do live in a democracy and this can happen. It is how Unite decided to use that right which is disgusting.
If we are to have any chance to influence the yes voters who are now maybe on the fence, that is what we should be discussing.
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Can I ask, please, as a member of BA Ground Staff and a loyal Trade Unionist what this is all about because in the Terminals, we have lost sight of the dispute? (......and our own discussions with the management are not yet finalised - there are trials going on with working harder with fewer as we speak!)
Since the summer when we pledged allegiance to our crew colleagues, management assured us that existing crew would not have Terms and Conditions changed. We were told that fears over senior crew losing lucrative routes and, thus, allowances were being allayed by offering to look at pay regularly and making sure any shortfalls in allowances would be made up. We have been repeatedly told that no LHR based cabin crew would lose one penny of their salary and allowances package.
As far as we can see, the only thing WW is doing to you is making you work one staff member down. Given that (a) "Yon Man" is a pilot and knows about aircraft safety and wouldn't compromise it and (b) everyone else in BA, and indeed in any line of business you care to mention whether in aviation or not, is having to make sacrifices and cut-backs, what are the big issues?
PLEASE everyone - be nice, be civil and be courteous whatever our colleagues reply! I know this is a very emotive subject, particularly if you have Christmas travel plans, but a 91% vote in favour of messing our passengers around and jeopardising their own jobs and their BA colleagues jobs tells me that there is something very far wrong inside the company! A few leaflets from UNITE / BASSA and a rallying cry wouldn't produce this effect! (..........and with 80% returning their votes, that indicates that if the other 20% had been dragged gto vote, kicking and screaming and had voted against action, a sizeable majority would still have been returned!)
Guys - in your own words, and without any fear, favour or emotion, please tell me what is wrong!
Since the summer when we pledged allegiance to our crew colleagues, management assured us that existing crew would not have Terms and Conditions changed. We were told that fears over senior crew losing lucrative routes and, thus, allowances were being allayed by offering to look at pay regularly and making sure any shortfalls in allowances would be made up. We have been repeatedly told that no LHR based cabin crew would lose one penny of their salary and allowances package.
As far as we can see, the only thing WW is doing to you is making you work one staff member down. Given that (a) "Yon Man" is a pilot and knows about aircraft safety and wouldn't compromise it and (b) everyone else in BA, and indeed in any line of business you care to mention whether in aviation or not, is having to make sacrifices and cut-backs, what are the big issues?
PLEASE everyone - be nice, be civil and be courteous whatever our colleagues reply! I know this is a very emotive subject, particularly if you have Christmas travel plans, but a 91% vote in favour of messing our passengers around and jeopardising their own jobs and their BA colleagues jobs tells me that there is something very far wrong inside the company! A few leaflets from UNITE / BASSA and a rallying cry wouldn't produce this effect! (..........and with 80% returning their votes, that indicates that if the other 20% had been dragged gto vote, kicking and screaming and had voted against action, a sizeable majority would still have been returned!)
Guys - in your own words, and without any fear, favour or emotion, please tell me what is wrong!
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HF, Why should I go away? Why I am I not allowed to fight for what I believe in. We have voted legally and fairly. I am NOT happy for the passengers but WW certainly don't care.
And with that right comes the responsibility to bear the consequences of your actions.
You will see no gloating from me if innocent, misled BASSA members end up out of work.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Watersidewonker,
You seem intent on having a dig at those people who are paid a higher salary for a different job.
Here's a question for you - and keeping entirely with your recommendation of not singling out any jobs in particular:
Given that BA's future has suddenly become rather precarious and there is a likelihood that it will fold if this dispute escalates further, if the company folds and "BA2010" starts up in the New Year, what salary do you think the new company will pay their employees?
That's right. The going rate for the job. Most people who were re-employed in the same position would receive broadly the same salary. I know I would.
Would you?
You seem intent on having a dig at those people who are paid a higher salary for a different job.
Here's a question for you - and keeping entirely with your recommendation of not singling out any jobs in particular:
Given that BA's future has suddenly become rather precarious and there is a likelihood that it will fold if this dispute escalates further, if the company folds and "BA2010" starts up in the New Year, what salary do you think the new company will pay their employees?
That's right. The going rate for the job. Most people who were re-employed in the same position would receive broadly the same salary. I know I would.
Would you?
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WWW,
See what I mean? That's debate is it? Plainly through the medium of this forum you don't know my wife and, frankly, long may that continue, but I can assure you that any decision to cross a picket line has been made by her and her alone. She's a smart, intelligent and decisive woman who doesn't need my "input" (to take your patronising implication) to make her mind up.
Thanks for the compliment on my typing skills. If I have to fall back on them, then so be it. It won't be a situation of my making were it to happen.
As for surviving on my income, well, we'll do whatever we have to do to make our lives work. If stubborn intransigence on the part of Unite forces a major change in our income (and let's not pretend BA have asked anyone to take a paycut in IFCE) then we'll cut our coat to suit our cloth.
So be it.
See what I mean? That's debate is it? Plainly through the medium of this forum you don't know my wife and, frankly, long may that continue, but I can assure you that any decision to cross a picket line has been made by her and her alone. She's a smart, intelligent and decisive woman who doesn't need my "input" (to take your patronising implication) to make her mind up.
Thanks for the compliment on my typing skills. If I have to fall back on them, then so be it. It won't be a situation of my making were it to happen.
As for surviving on my income, well, we'll do whatever we have to do to make our lives work. If stubborn intransigence on the part of Unite forces a major change in our income (and let's not pretend BA have asked anyone to take a paycut in IFCE) then we'll cut our coat to suit our cloth.
So be it.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Flyingchick,
Are you sure? 
Not sure I'd want to go out on strike unless I knew for a fact. Otherwise my sacking would be entirely legal.
Simple. Because you contribute no facts to the debate, simply soundbites.
We have voted legally and fairly.
Not sure I'd want to go out on strike unless I knew for a fact. Otherwise my sacking would be entirely legal.
Why should I go away?