Name that Flying Machine

[teusje]

You are right, Noyade,
Over to you.

[Noyade]

It's first flight was about 1,5 year later than the SF.260.

Thanks teusje. A rough idea of the year involved is always helpful. :ok:


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x405/scan1321_d98c2d37e6a1c761a9c2a85232fc036218e5ba38.jpg

[Noyade]

1966 again.
Only two built.
Al Mooney assisted in the design.

[Asturias56]

Those wings look a bit short!

[Asturias56]

Piper Arapaho?

[Noyade]

Not from Piper.
Wingspan is 28' 6".
Flying magazine says there was less than 30mm between the prop-tips and fuselage.
Aerofiles reasons for non-manufacture include - poor single-engine performance, stall speeds too high, climb speeds too low, and engine nacelles set to close, according to Al Mooney (http://www.aerofiles.com/bio_m.html#mooney), who was a consultant.
Company creator was a WW2 pilot whose surname is shared with a Simpsons character who owns a nuclear power plant.

Very prominent T-tail on a rotund fuselage.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x259/pprune_0de14fb41e874b85139ef9fd0904df0f8002b406.png

[India Four Two]

The Simpsons clue led me to the Burns BA-42.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1568x1562/screenshot_2023_05_03_at_00_41_16_ded244906cc2365f6b141a9f29 efb35388ba1e2b.png

[Noyade]

That's him. :ok:
All yours Simon.

[India Four Two]

Thanks Noyade. An interesting aircraft that I had never heard of.

How about this one?

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/193x117/wfm_2023_05_04_copy_6a71e178784aa835e3c94888e1090c593718a571 .png

[oldpax]

It was on fb a few days ago!Same photo! I have no replacement so will keep quite!It had a large nosewheel!

[Noyade]

It had a large nosewheel!


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x440/scan1331_af5c2d9610661c8d73f0803d683fd69b83412ebf.jpg

[India Four Two]

Noyade seems to have successfully followed up the trail of the giant nosewheel. Do you want to ID it?


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/194x325/giant_nw_e41ce3c7f0dba90b4d03fe666139253ce264eda3.jpg

[washoutt]

It's huge! What could be the reason for such a large nosewheel? Availability of such a part from another aircraft type?

[chevvron]

Looks like the German 'New York' bomber but a lot smaller; Messerschmitt Me 264?

[Asturias56]

It's huge! What could be the reason for such a large nosewheel? Availability of such a part from another aircraft type?

designed by Dunlop?

[meleagertoo]

Big low pressure tyre to allow a heavy aircraft to operate from grass?
Or maybe just poor quality rubber preventing reliable high-pressure tyres. We targeted Germany's rubber supplies quite effectively as they were critical to the war effort.

[India Four Two]

Yes, the Me 264 - one of the Amerikabomber candidates.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x891/me364_f886fc26c4772396ee7b704ade607a00e91dc247.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_264

washoutt, if you think the nose wheel is large, look at the main wheels!

meleagertoo, I think you are probably right. I was surprised to discover that it had a wing loading of 73 lb/sq. ft, which was 6% higher than a B-29.
The relatively high wing loading caused poor climb performance, loss of manoeuvrability, stability and high take-off and landing speeds.

chevvron has control.

[chevvron]

Open House.

[meleagertoo]

Germany wasn't alone in using monstrous tyres.

Brabazon
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/201x353/screenshot_2023_05_07_at_20_15_19_1cc1cc94d4c44ede4b95768807 c9818ab9791dfb.png

Comet 1
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/298x173/screenshot_2023_05_07_at_20_13_06_21583d2b6a96540113062827c3 aff7268641f1ab.png

Comet IV
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/456x358/screenshot_2023_05_07_at_20_14_26_00f0b5ddb28baafdce5ec60ec5 b9de80e814146c.png

[India Four Two]

The Beardmore Inflexible trumps the Brab!

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/950x589/inflexible_9_87f9ce68d1d058f22cd042a2b93c883625fba809.jpg


it's still Open House

[chevvron]

Thanks Noyade. An interesting aircraft that I had never heard of.

How about this one?

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/193x117/wfm_2023_05_04_copy_6a71e178784aa835e3c94888e1090c593718a571 .png
I actually heard about this one in about 1961 in the pages of 'RAF Flying Review' before it became 'Flying Review International'. The photo it showed gave the impression it was the same size as a B29 especially with the 'glasshouse' nose.

[Asturias56]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/190x163/2023_05_02_172653_425c11e52b58ac76226126df2446486c8f859e8a.j pg
Try this one

[BEagle]

Itsy bitsy.....

[Asturias56]

Could be........................ several versions - but lets not picky
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/154x202/2023_05_02_172728_23b89e39a293fc2a50b0d6b9aa82f8f9a03e40a7.j pg

[meleagertoo]

Bit of a give-away, that!

[BEagle]

Parker Teenie Two

As in Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie, my clue earlier?

[chevvron]

Canopy is totally different; picture shown is a one piece blown bubble canopy whereas the illustration in Wiki shows a canopy in at least 3 sections, one of which is hinged to open.

[meleagertoo]

Well, N62307 is a homebuilt called a Froheling. Clearly not the same aircraft (or not in the same configuration) as the original pic though though there are similarities.
I've found nothing on the internet about it apart from its FAA registration details sheet and no model name is given.

[Asturias56]

There are all sorts of pics different final builds as far as I can see - I think this was from the days when you got the plans and did what you damned well liked - not the modern "airfix" build type of homebuilt - I will confirm tomorrow

[meleagertoo]

I certainly found pics of the Parker Teenie Two that fit the tail pic perfectly but none with the low-back and bubble canopy though that feature is mentioned in passing.
What surprised me was the 'quality' (or lack of it) in some of the tinwork depicted. Clearly it was intended as stated for construction by non-aircraft buiding and non metalwork experienced DIYers with domestic tools. Seems some of them took all that a bit more literally than makes me feel confortable!

[Asturias56]

Its a Parker Teenie Two so Beagle has control

The bubble canopy is one in Croatia - everyone looks different as far as I can see. I understand the plans cost USD 1000 back in the late '60's.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/607x334/2023_05_10_083148_b74f1da251fd05c4256a575cf678253166b98fbf.j pg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/690x292/rertertwtwmple_e4c3593e1c5c624267c707e73e64b28dec5009e2.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/129x228/2023_05_02_172548_492b7585075dde060b77dc1661496ee504e97b53.j pg

[BEagle]

Thanks!

Here you go:


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/343x260/100523_0bba5fffca96a6ead99a8a7377d14657ce1d046c.jpg

[chevvron]

TSR 11 aka Swordfish?

[BEagle]

Nope!

...........

[Asturias56]

Italian?

[BEagle]

Nope

..............

[Asturias56]

Awful lot of bracing wires - long tublar gunsight as well

American?

[BEagle]

Nope!

.............

[oncemorealoft]

Blackburn Shark?

[BEagle]

Nope!

.....

[Noyade]

Gloster Gauntlet?

[chevvron]

Gloster Gauntlet?
Or even Gladiator.

[BEagle]

Noyade, you are correct! Gloster Gauntlet II it was indeed!

You have the helm!

[Noyade]

Thanks BEagle!

I'll try a similar mid-section photo crop...


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/650x588/pprune_friday_a2de5bb9cc954519746750c49b3c64e4764aa3cc.jpg

[dduxbury310]

Blackburn Dart?

[Noyade]

Not the Dart.

[Asturias56]

British?

[Noyade]

Not British...

[teusje]

American?

[Noyade]

German...

[thnarg]

Heinkel?

[Noyade]

Yep. Heinkel...

[Asturias56]

so a devleopment of the HD-14?

he built several others but I can't find (yet) any pictures......

[teusje]

HD-38 maybe?

[chevvron]

HD-38 maybe?
Wasn't that a high aspect ratio design by Hurel Dubois?

[teusje]

The Hurel-Dubois aircraft were designated HD.31, HD.32 and HD.34.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurel-Dubois_HD.31

[thnarg]

Anyway, a twin engine Heinkel biplane, so HD34?

[Noyade]

Anyway, a twin engine Heinkel biplane, so HD34?

That's the one - :ok:
Over to you thnarg.

[thnarg]

G’day down there, Noyade. Not sure I have photo-posting rights yet (too many decades lurking and not posting) so open house everybody…

[thnarg]

G’day down there, Noyade. Not sure I have photo-posting rights yet (too many decades lurking and not posting) so open house everybody…

...or maybe I do? See if this works:


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/613x373/cimg_crop_ccf174b21cab58f68fc0903178fb1f8c009b1379.jpg

[Asturias56]

looks like the Italian Fascist symbol on the nose

perhaps the Savoia- Marchetti S 74?

[chevvron]

Looks more like a chinese symbol to me. The radio aerials indicate it's not too old either (post 1960ish)

[thnarg]

Not Savoia-Marchetti nor Chinese

[Asturias56]

Is it Italian?

[chevvron]

It actually looks like a VFW 614 to me.

[thnarg]

Not Italian nor VFW 614. If I panned out a bit you’d get it straight away…

[Self loading bear]

You get the rights from 10 posts

[Self loading bear]

Lots of speedtape on a C-97 stratocruiser?

[thnarg]

Lots of speedtape, yes. C-97 Stratocruiser, no.

[oncemorealoft]

Curtiss C-46

[thnarg]

Curtiss C46 it is:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x1600/cimg3543_c46_nose_02cf26f38f6cba572a83eaaa0a2d88c877117a3a.j pgFirst Nations Transportation at Gimli before TC closed them down for excessive use of speedtape etc


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x1200/cimg3558_c46_cockpit_14f3c3a79567039e8620c0dafd003bb743594e8 7.jpg


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x1200/cimg3556_c46_interior_f3e9a9138024553978a39ebe27c63ca90995e0 a6.jpg

You have control, Oncemore...

[oncemorealoft]

Thanks. I may have been a bit mean on the cropping of this photo!


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/189x108/747c5843_422c_4abb_b27b_db06a9362fd8_fffc896ceb7de6d3a246025 d55337c74cd633241.jpeg

[chevvron]

Hawker Hart with a Napier Dagger Sabre engine?

[Asturias56]

comrades - don't get over enthusiastic - the mods may crack down on the 24 hour rule

[thnarg]

Yeah we’ll need clues. British?

[BEagle]

Italiano?

...................

[oncemorealoft]

British. Not a Napier engine type.

[thnarg]

Armstrong Whitworth?

[oncemorealoft]

Not A.W.

[BEagle]

Westland-Hill Pterodactyl V


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x369/w_h_pv_1966fbff158d19d0ec83a4c0f04f1d40aaf867e7.jpg

[oncemorealoft]

Well done Beagle!

[BEagle]

Thanks, oncemorealoft!

Here's one for you all:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/448x254/fghjkl_7046fcc14d90271bb59fa569c07a6887c46e314a.jpg

[thnarg]

Now that looks Italiano, BEagle!

[621andy]

Fiat Cr.32

[BEagle]

621andy, you are correct!

You have control!!

[621andy]

Oh! I've won one:8 I'm usually in awe of the knowledge of everyone on here:}

Anyway, this one will probably last 5 minutes...
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1587x1120/ac1684236508024213_e6e5515f03eaa11ef90a97de52392bbcdb436439. jpg
and apologies if it's already been 'done'...

[chevvron]

Looks like it converts to a car.

[Asturias56]

better than that submarine we had last year!!

[BEagle]

So 'quaint'......

[621andy]

So 'quaint'......
:O What can I say...

[meleagertoo]

Quaint? I think I'd risk the submarine!

[Noyade]

Quaint?

Most likely just Mr BEagle playing with a surname. ;)


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/604x305/20230518_020029_92f8f677d9ff5cecbfb3f1b4cdf5518efff680cb.jpg

[621andy]

Indeed, Noyade is correct;): Beags was playing with you...It's a Quaintance Spratt 108...

Constructed mainly of Polyurethane foam and fibreglass, it had folding wings and a tow hitch so it could be towed by a car. The original engine was a 60hp Mercury outboard engine(!) but was replaced with a Subaru car engine...
It was controlled using Mr. Spratts 'Controlwing' system:eek:

Anyway...over to Noyade for the next teaser...and I'll retire into the shadows and continue lurking for another 10 years until another one pops up that I know:}

[Asturias56]

Be of good cheer! I started out knowing nothing - now I know a little bit less than nothing

But your brain will remember some of the odder suggestions and you'll gradually aspire towards the Nirvana of the Masters like noyade & Bear

[Noyade]

Cheers 621andy. Mr BEagle was certainly in the know before me -so control should go to him.

and I'll retire into the shadows and continue lurking for another 10 years until another one pops up that I know:}

But if he's not interested - don't wait another 10 years - post another one now.
Failing that - open house.

:ok:

(Interestingly, Jane's/Aerofiles calls it the Model 105, but that museum calls it the Model 108?)

[621andy]

I'll get a quick one in now then if BEagle doesn't take offence:O

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x286/2155433996_b7bc3e3a79_f4ae502eafbdabfcfb4d6432bc467125bd23b0 fe.jpg

[BEagle]

No offence!

Although the image you've posted is a model, the real thing did actually fly - somewhat surprisingly!

[621andy]

No offence!

Although the image you've posted is a model, the real thing did actually fly - somewhat surprisingly!
Indeed, I couldn't find a decent pic of the real thing and as you say it did fly;)

[Noyade]

I couldn't find a decent pic of the real thing

Photos in publications aren't much better. The Cheranovskii BICh-3 most likely?


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/650x268/scan1338_332ec1b600fb11f3c8fe35995c09c6cfa33a0784.jpg

[621andy]

Well done Noyade! Over to you...

[Noyade]

Thanks Andy.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/499x628/nose_dde46883cca30b9f2352d5997330376cdd88d28c.jpg

[621andy]

Looks Russian with the Aircon/APU from an Mi-8 under the nose:uhoh: Presumably an Ag-plane of some sort:confused:

[thnarg]

Well once again I have absolutely no idea but it looks like a Pawnee shagging a Dyson. Any clues Noyade? Is it from your side of the planet?

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

What an absolutely splendid description - If only I could give you a ' LIKE '

[621andy]

Well once again I have absolutely no idea but it looks like a Pawnee shagging a Dyson. Any clues Noyade? Is it from your side of the planet?
Brilliant:D

[chevvron]

Looks like something from New Zealand.

[Noyade]

Ag plane it is. The shagger is a 350 hp Lycoming - the Dyson is a 108 hp Lycoming.
No sheep involved.
American.
First flight 1965.

[621andy]

Aerial Distributors DW-1

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x596/distributor_wing_dw_1_n361dw_at_university_airport_in_1970_1 c3315f6cfb4e2b79691568a84d32c9be2b1c720.jpg

[dduxbury310]

So not based in any way on the design first planned by a certain Mr Snow, later taken over by Aero Commander, then others in various parts of the World?

[Noyade]

Aerial Distributors DW-1

:ok:

Over to you Andy.

[621andy]

Okey dokey...


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x450/d_4b9880f69be47b7e5f89ac29c9df69b6560ef1dc.jpg

[BEagle]

Meth.inks a parasol?

[621andy]

Yeeess, but which one...

[thnarg]

A Nemeth one?

[621andy]

Yes, that one:p Built by students at Miami University...

Back to you...:D

[thnarg]

Thanks 621andy. Shall we have a proper flying machine for a change? Whose gear is this…


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/556x624/img_3662_dc56be5a44fc7a20e264dea9cb5968062f5e373d.jpeg

[Noyade]

Fairchild XC-120.

[thnarg]

Oh too easy! I shall retire while Noyade furnishes your next entertainment.

[Noyade]

I would like for you to go again. :)

[thnarg]

And I would like to continue my retirement on this fine Sunday morning here. Open house…

[Asturias56]

Guys, slow things down - it as this back and forward posting of challenges that led to the 24 hour rule :(

[Noyade]

And I would like to continue my retirement on this fine Sunday morning here. Open house…

Ok. Enjoy Sunday. 😉


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x393/20230521_181325_548b1967c33f3bdf61ede42ad57f39aa2fc9b99f_154 cdc7dbe1bfcd8a424bb0842b78f023231ecb5.jpg

[thnarg]

Thanks Noyade - that looks good. And sorry Asturias…

[Asturias56]

I've been banned for breaking the rule in the past (on a Christmas Day no less) - I hope they don't come after you

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/352x158/screenshot_2023_05_26_at_10_17_00_85419edf5035ab2e3aa6965479 ae81bcb50cd267.png

[oncemorealoft]

British Army Aeroplane No.1. Pilot: Samuel Cody?

[meleagertoo]

No Sir!

[621andy]

Wright Model R?

[meleagertoo]

Wrong side of the Atlantic though the designer was an American, probably explaining the similarity.

[thnarg]

… which suggests Samual Cody was involved?

[Senior Pilot]

I've been banned for breaking the rule in the past (on a Christmas Day no less) - I hope they don't come after you

A timely reminder, Asturias56 👍

As already posted on another thread please stick to at least 24 hours before announcing a winner. As a world wide forum we should be conscious of those on a different time zone who were left out of the UK/European back and forth.

[chevvron]

Sam Cody (actually Cowdery was his full name) was more 'rotund' than the person shown and looking at the aircraft, the drive to the props was more reminiscent of Wright flyers rather than Cody.

[oxenos]

Moore-Brabazo in one of his early aircraft. Don't know what he called it
Edited to add Short Biplane No 1 which was a copy of one of the Wrights

[meleagertoo]

Neither Cody nor Moore-Brabazon. Rather more esoteric than that, a strange story that I'd not come across before.

Oops! My bad, the fella was a Scot with American education, early career and this aeroplane (C.1910) was in a third country. Dabbled in airships too.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/331x265/screenshot_2023_05_27_at_12_34_56_28c9992dec965fd567ffcef741 9063c59fc6797f.png

[thnarg]

Never mind 24 hours, Sr Pilot, we’ll need 24 weeks for this one. Looks like Henri Farman, Hiram Maxim and Alexander Graham Bell tried to assemble a Wright Flyer together without reading the instructions first. Again I have no idea what it is, Meleagertoo, but I had fun looking for it and learnt a lot about early flying machines on the way.

[BEagle]

Huge propellors on Mr M-K's contraption!


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/293x433/29052023_6b3e6aca7055a746ff416e3cb5acc1ad267d3c79.jpg

[621andy]

Never mind 24 hours, Sr Pilot, we’ll need 24 weeks for this one. Looks like Henri Farman, Hiram Maxim and Alexander Graham Bell tried to assemble a Wright Flyer together without reading the instructions first. Again I have no idea what it is, Meleagertoo, but I had fun looking for it and learnt a lot about early flying machines on the way.
I agree! I've spent untold hours scouring the 'net for anything resembling this...Put us out of our misery, we admit defeat:O

[BEagle]

It's the 'Experimental Aeroplane Kennedy #1', designed by J. H. Chesborough MacKenzie-Kennedy who was indeed an American-educated Scot whose aircraft were built in Russia.

More information at https://www.alexanderpalace.org/aerialrussia/flyingmen.html .

[meleagertoo]

Beagle has it, well done, that was pretty obscure to say the least.

Chesborough MacKenzie-Kennedy returned to UK when the 1st WW broke out and built a gigantic bomber which was not a success.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/mackenzie-kennedy-airplane-prototype-and-projects.26689/

[BEagle]

Thanks, meleagertoo!

I give you:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/290x192/290523_016d7d30fe600f64c4b3f23ebf1a39e2b1f2a4bb.jpg

[chevvron]

Sounds silly but it looks like a Mosquito fitted with radial engines and hydraulic undercarriage.

[ea200]

Sounds silly but it looks like a Mosquito fitted with radial engines and hydraulic undercarriage.
Could be the Argentinian IA-24 Calquin?

[621andy]

Beat me to it ea200:) Although the undercarriage doesn't look quite right, specifically the hubs:confused:

[ea200]

Beat me to it ea200:) Although the undercarriage doesn't look quite right, specifically the hubs:confused:
There are pictures that seem to show different hubs, but it seems to match this one:
https://www.laahs.com/wp-content/uploads/IAe-24_02.jpg

See https://www.laahs.com/i-ae-24-calquin-the-argentine-mosquito/

[BEagle]

Could be the Argentinian IA-24 Calquin?

Is that a question?

[ea200]

Is that a question?
It was when I posted it. But following some more poking around looking at wheel hubs, I am happy to make it a statement!

[621andy]

It was when I posted it. But following some more poking around looking at wheel hubs, I am happy to make it a statement!

I'll second that:p

[BEagle]

ea200, it was indeed the Calquin!

All yours for a new challenge!!

[ea200]

Thanks BEagle and thanks to chevvron for setting me off on the right track.

Now for this:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/472x295/aircraft10_e948cbbaf019bfbadd8711e9055a85b60207d836.jpg

[Noyade]

Eucalypts in the background. :ok:
Duigan's biplane.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x667/20230531_070758_90d9fb57fd3a916f9e5d50c7c39fb1f5bb51ae6c.jpg

[oxenos]

Eucalypts in the background.
Is this an aircraft recognition forum, or a tree recognition forum?

[ea200]

I can confirm that Noyade is correct, it is the Duigan biplane. I cannot confirm the tree recognition but I can only identify a Eucalypt if I'm standing right next to it!

Over to you Noyade.

[Noyade]

Thank you ea200. Tree species was an assumption - got a few in the backyard.
Monoplane this time...



https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x416/scan1343_afb8cb7eba8352d779c628432b7c1798549c8339.jpg

[chevvron]

Demoiselle?

[teusje]

L.J.R. Jones' aeroplane of 1911

[Noyade]

Certainly on the right track, teusje - it is an early Australian monoplane, but not from Jones.
It's a pusher prop...


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x537/scan1347_240bc9fa077037c7d2440b2f60333a860319f67d.jpg

[621andy]

Hart Racing Monoplane

[Noyade]

Indeed it is, Andy. :ok:
Over to you.

[621andy]

Woohoo!

I'm sure this'll be an easy one for you experts...

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/651x457/pprune_74dd4a01b7eee6a22f97e4000e37b9984f685435.jpg

[Asturias56]

ADI Condor I think........................

[621andy]

I need to set a stopwatch; both for the record time it takes you lot to get these and for the 24hr rule between posting and answering:}

Asturias56 is indeed correct. It's an American motor glider design dating from 1981. It used a VW(what else?) engine.It was destroyed in 1982 when it took off on a night flight and suffered engine failure and crashed into a hillside. History doesn't record the state of the pilot...

Back to you Sir for something more challenging I suspect;)

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/717x478/condorselflaunchinair_294a8013eb1962cc248096f1633be858c1c21c 12.jpg

[Asturias56]

That was a weird design - rather stuck inteh mind - laways thought it looked like a Bede creation TBH

watch the 24 hour rule - over on What airport it 's getting to the point that people will get banned

Sorry I have to declare Open House

[EXDAC]

History doesn't record the state of the pilot...

There is information on the ADI website that suggests he survived but with back injuries.

[621andy]

There is information on the ADI website that suggests he survived but with back injuries.

Ah OK, thanks for that:(

A

[621andy]

As Asturias56 has declared open house and no-one has come up with anything, I'll slip this in to keep the ball rolling...
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/724x600/pr1_8ef4266272a8e00f9b53494b3ff98ca0cff85634.jpg
Again, this shouldn't be too taxing for the experts... I must add this design despite many efforts didn't actually make it into the air...

[Noyade]

On the phone I thought it may have been the A-12 Avenger mock-up.
But on the bigger monitor now - The Lippisch DM-1.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x584/scan1348_cb79cbe836428ad4a68b8610c40aefe004b5ad43.jpg

[621andy]

I'll give you that Noyade. There seems to be some debate as to how much involvement Lippisch had in the construction, but he was certainly involved in the design. There also seems to be some confusion as to the actual name, with the Germans listing it as a Akaflieg Darmstadt München(Hence the DM) DM-1, whereas the American designation appears to be a Lippisch DM-1.

Linkys here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lippisch_DM-1, https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akaflieg_Darmstadt_München_DM-1.



Open House again!

[Discorde]

Apologies if this has appeared before:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/899x470/pprune_quiz_7c8bfcbdade29446f01851a0ea291201e98b978b.jpg

[Noyade]

The RWD-5?


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x299/scan1349_d8259c7df89e5ff7a7b9d86b618e2fef1b6edaaa.jpg

[Discorde]

Yessir! From Air Pictorial October 1964:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1396x498/pprune_quiz_ans_67eb1f36e534fb75754134958735cd123a3dd531.jpg

[Noyade]

Thanks Discorde - apologies for the delay...


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x307/scan1320_ab0f8126eae398f8323d097b54f071d5dd548dfa.jpg

[621andy]

Looks to be based on a Stits Playboy:confused:

[Noyade]

No connection to Stits - other than it is from the US of A. He did use some components from a Vultee BT-13 Valiant.
It took him twenty two years of blood, sweat and tears to built it.

[621andy]

Big clue there Noyade:}, although it didn't help...

Foster 'Blood, Sweat and Tears' N48F....Although I don't know why he bothered when it does look very similar to a Stits Playboy:confused:

[Noyade]

It is indeed Foster's 'headache' - well found. :ok:


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/604x189/andy_13c0d587c8e011c0ce5adea05c6c8e04a258570b.png

[621andy]

Yes, not the easiest one to find any info on, and it was a case of trawling the list until I found the answer...I think I'd have lost the will to live if his name had started with 'S':}

Anyway, here's a quick one to keep things on the move...
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x694/pp3_e464a2a9a27a99e0eaf98e642cfdaf5996fa1df3.jpg

[chevvron]

Derived from a Mignet design?

[dixi188]

Obviously didn't come with assembly instructions.:)

[621andy]

Not derived from anything remotely related to Mignet...Try a different continent;)

[BEagle]

I don't think that thing ever flew?

Drag-no-fly?

[thnarg]

Or a Ford Trimotor’s turd

[chevvron]

Leftover offcuts from a Ju52; possibly Friedrichshafen looking at the airship mooring mast in the background.

[621andy]

Indeed Beags has it... The Ford-Stout Dragonfly. Not what you'd call a successful model...Although he did seem to be quite good at extracting money from credulous investors:hmm:

http://www.airclassicsnow.com/assets/acaug19canard.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stout_Metal_Airplane

[621andy]

Or a Ford Trimotor’s turd

:D I like that one:p

[BEagle]

621andy, as that thing wasn't technically a 'flying machine', I leave it to you to propose another challenge!

[621andy]

Getting my knuckles rapped by BEagle...I don't know whether to be embarrassed or proud:O

Yes, it didn't technically fly, but the thought was there:}

Sooo, here's another attempt...
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1197x706/pprune1_9333b25da658a011a097cda21192ebf883c9990e.jpg

[Asturias56]

XB-51?

[longer ron]

AKA the Gilbert XF-120 in the movie Toward the Unknown (1956) ;)
Which actually had some very interesting aircraft and airfield scenes :)

[621andy]

Asturias once again gets it in record time...This 24hr rule is a bit of a pain, but hey rules is rules:ugh:

A special Mention in Despatches for Longer Ron:p

Martin XB-51. Obviously too mainstream and not esoteric enough:p


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1252x668/martin_xb_51_b33d4414c5ee750042ba53cb77f5fb15af8c42b4.jpg

[Asturias56]

I was reading my Gunston last weekend - he seemed to think it was a pretty good aircraft for its time.......................... thio it was a bit of punt as I'd never seen a picture of it in plan from below.

Open house I'm afraid - I'm out and about until Monday

[621andy]

I was reading my Gunston last weekend - he seemed to think it was a pretty good aircraft for its time.......................... thio it was a bit of punt as I'd never seen a picture of it in plan from below.

Open house I'm afraid - I'm out and about until Monday
I guessed you'd all get it with a 'normal' view which is why I selected the underside view; but obviously even that was too simple:}

Anyone else want to play?

[621andy]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x416/pp7_753a43151b73a6ef91e6e5213982e5ad18fbaae8.jpg
As no-one seems to want to play here's another quick one...

[ea200]

Bleriot 125 I think.

[621andy]

It is...Well done! Your go now...

[ea200]

Too close to the What Cockpit thread! Open house please.

[dixi188]

Try this one.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x458/what_aeroplane_18_06_23_fb38ec9da2651a56944f4c45b24241202efa f0bc.jpg

[chevvron]

Martin-Baker MB 5

[Noyade]

An incomplete Kyushu J7W Shinden?

[BEagle]

Kawasaki Ki-64?

[dixi188]

Chevvron has it with the MB5.
I'm glad that others had a stab though.

[chevvron]

Open house.

[Asturias56]

try this

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/308x351/2023_06_20_110737_2751d466fa152b98e8df54f44553b1a02beb124c.j pg

[chevvron]

Grandstand in the background looks like Craven Cottage.

[Asturias56]

well the design was about as successful as Fulham FC but it isn't Craven Cottage

[thnarg]

Looks a bit Avro-y

[Asturias56]

Looks a bit Avro-y


Its British but not A V Roe

I' cant upload another picture - something not working with the drag and drop

[Asturias56]

Comrades!

Looks like I won't be able to post any pictures until/unless they sort out the latest "improvements"

I'll park this wonderful aircraft and call Open House as others seem to be able to post pictures :*

[Russell Gulch]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x600/p1160040_300149cca1e8327c5e8833004a75d9eca789d62e.jpg
Asturias 56 has declared "Open House" for a while...

It's military; bonus point for the Museum in which it sits.

Russ

[Noyade]

The Osprey - which for one example became the X-28A.
Now residing in the Mid-American Museum?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-America_Air_Museum


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x590/scan1364_f4d9aea2634ea3ee38464a4d50c0cbf3c775d147.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x299/scan1363_81c38dfc90be8825243f3ffb98475e3828148e96.jpg

[Noyade]

Comrades!

Looks like I won't be able to post any pictures until/unless they sort out the latest "improvements"

I'll park this wonderful aircraft and call Open House as others seem to be able to post pictures :*


Not that I'm computer literate - but have you tried the "Manage Attachments" method - rather than "Drag and Drop?"
Just a thought.

[Asturias56]

Yes - I tried that and oit still doesn't work - I may have to spend th e weekend clearing out caches etc etc

[Asturias56]

Seems to be fixed - complete clear out of all Pprune history , permissions etc etc accept all cookies...................

[Russell Gulch]

Noyade has it the Pereira X-28 Osprey, and it is indeed at the Mid-America Air Museum in Liberal, Kansas.

I guess its back to Asturias56.

Russ

[Asturias56]

If Noyade agrees we can go back to the challenge #4202

[Noyade]

If Noyade agrees we can go back to the challenge #4202

By all means.
:ok:

[Asturias56]

Thank you sir - you are a gentleman!

To recap - this is British, not A V Roe - came to a sticky end

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/259x313/2023_06_21_083413_345c87f372a8dc8701c77c5330ab5e8f5ae51e15.j pg

[Asturias56]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/242x230/2023_06_20_110717_53f77a15c804c80013edb1bd3471ed5b8530ada4.j pg

[sycamore]

Is the engine an Anzani 10 cyl,double row,or sump`n else...?

[Asturias56]

It is indeed an Anzani 10 cylinder engine - but the detailed tech spec I know not wot of :ouch:

[sycamore]

Sopwith `Glasshopper`...?

[Asturias56]

No not Sopwith either......... I must admit it was a new one to me

Not in several "standard" refernce books I have - tho I'm sure Noyade has all the drawings on file ;)

[thnarg]

I discovered “London and Provincial” built some trainers using Anzanis. Hadn’t heard of them til now, but any closer?

[Asturias56]

God! There's another I've never heard of!!

Everyman and his dog must have been cranking out aircraft in WW1. It's not London & Provincial but a similar operation.

This one was a different (even a very different) take on a well established formula

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/128x177/2023_06_20_110417_5f8cd35f67e3e66d8ade3de8350bd48553db1b4b.j pg

[Asturias56]

there's a clue if you look closely at the pictures...................

[thnarg]

Is that an engine at the front but a pusher prop?

[Asturias56]

Could be... could be... its very strange...............................:cool:

[thnarg]

Ah I found it, but shall let others have fun and claim the glory!

Amazing machine, although perhaps a schoolboy error, eh Asturias?

[Asturias56]

Please claim the Glory!

It really is an odd one - but no doubt it seemed like a good idea at the time......................................

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/322x355/2023_06_20_110621_760590efb7b29cda1e9d569d4de6553a5ed66ea2.j pg

[thnarg]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1350x1344/img_3751_a13e9f223eb8b8d980fbdc2f5f21f36d82d84ea0.jpeg
Well OK. It would have interesting when that chain failed!

[Asturias56]

I'll twiddle my thumbs for a few hours -

as you say interesting - I once worked in a factory as a Student where they had some very long chain saws - maybe 15m long. The operator sat in an armoured glass cabin at one end. There was a bloody great dent in the wall above it where the chain had arrived one day at speed when it broke. And a great brown stain under the cab..................

[thnarg]

Ouch, although I would have liked to have worked in a Mr Kipling bakery too.

Well I managed to screenshot, edit and paste that wikipedia page earlier but now it just freezes when I try one of my photos, so either Asturias stops thumb-twiddling and does another one, or open house.

[Asturias56]

Sorry - the rules are I have to wait 24 hours to confirm if you are right or wrong . Older posters will know I was banned (on a Christmas Day!) for breaking that rule by 4 hours.

And it was 2 months before i got my privileges back.

The rule (which really needs changing) was to stop people posting rapid challenge after challenge and allow those not in the W European time zone a chance. One guy was posting continuously effectively so we all suffered as a consequence. :(

Personally I think it would work if only one post per person a day was allowed and once someone got it right we could move on immediately - but the Mods have decreed something else and I'm not risking another ban. here's another picture

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x493/2023_06_20_110638_a8176fee10fd65e5befeb42b49c09d0c35c39b54.j pg

[thnarg]

Ah sorry - I thought it was 24hrs from the challenge posting, not the correct answer. Yes a little strange, but it’s their train set.

Cheers from Thnarg (old 1990s lurker, new poster)

[Asturias56]

time has passed and I can confirm Thnarg is correct

Mann was part of Mann Egerton who built a lot of aircraft in Norwich by other designers in WW1

They designed a couple of aircraft themselves which were conventional. This one was based on the idea that you could adopt a conventional engine up front to a pusher and retain the forward firing position . Problems with the efficiently of the chain drive meant it was seriously underpowered.

Over to Thnarg!

[thnarg]

Thanks Asturias, and I remember seeing Mann Egerton selling cars when I was a fledgling.

Away from home for a bit, so open house…

[longer ron]

Mann was part of Mann Egerton who built a lot of aircraft in Norwich by other designers in WW1


Not sure RF Mann was associated with the Mann Egerton Group.
Anybody know what he moved on to ??

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/242x307/screenshot_2023_06_27_at_13_03_19_ab3e412a858133ddcbe70e6ba5 443a7e6c508e28.png

[chevvron]

Thanks Asturias, and I remember seeing Mann Egerton selling cars when I was a fledgling.

Many of them were stored at Fairoaks where Alan Mann was the airport owner.

[thnarg]

Many of them were stored at Fairoaks where Alan Mann was the airport owner.

I learnt to fly there in the Doug Arnold/Brymon days and remember Mann Helicopters but didn’t make the connection. Anyway meleagertoo has given us a pretty little challenge so let’s get back to that.

[chevvron]

I learnt to fly there in the Doug Arnold/Brymon days and remember Mann Helicopters but didn’t make the connection. Anyway meleagertoo has given us a pretty little challenge so let’s get back to that.
Alan Mann bought Fairoaks from Doug Arnold in '73 and sold it to Erinaceous in 2008.
At the time Doug was selling Fairoaks, AVM Don Bennet was selling Blackbushe and Peter Cadbury (who operated firstly from Crutchfield Manor then Preston Candover and was heir to the chocolate company) was keen to buy it. When I spoke to Peter, he told me that he had arrived at Blackbushe with a cheque in his hand and met Doug coming out of the door having already done the deal.
There's no telling what would have happened subsequently had Peter (who went on to form Westward TV and Westward Airways) been just 5 minutes earlier.

[Asturias56]

is the challenge German?

[meleagertoo]

Verdammt, nicht!

[thnarg]

Looks like it was designed by the Farnborough chaps?

[Noyade]

A Bloater?


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x667/20230628_075401_7ce97ba07d2857a155e5aa8fe91c34ae5cbc938c.jpg

[meleagertoo]

That must rate as one of the worst-named aircraft ever

Noyade has it.

[Noyade]

Cheers Mel.

Try this.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x499/scan1375_808bd96090266e78c0ab62d46cd2ccd67b42370f.jpg

[thnarg]

OK I’ll start. The front end and engines looks like a Kangaroo, but not the back end.

[Noyade]

looks like a Kangaroo

It certainly does have a Joey-like pouch up front for the pilot and one passenger. The tail can fit six more passengers. Smaller than it looks with a wingspan of only 38'.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x252/roo_pouch_305d55243e0c290a7ff8bcb8d1f47f6af2aec559.png

[Asturias56]

Is it Australian then?

[Noyade]

Not this time.