Name that Flying Machine

[Asturias56]

Yes - the Hispano HA100 designed by Messerschmidt - nice looking beast tho better without the tricycle undercarriage I always felt . They built a load and then the US wouldn't provide engines so they were scrapped........


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/404x226/2021_11_30_155514_7a10fedeee9e900a0a9df5793bc2ee4ffc4fc250.j pg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/200x106/2021_11_30_155706_a9cf5138dd4ba5db1e65dba299ea153b88494549.j pg

[Noyade]

Thanks A56.
Time again for OPEN HOUSE.

[Self loading bear]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/336x345/dbd6dc97_c9be_44dd_8e27_0005ab5c69df_88c058922658b1e7f9cb56e 827c0840db7cb8613.jpeg
Something to ponder over, over the weekend

[Noyade]

The Putzer SR.57 Bussard?


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x482/scan0808_b341fbf8c69e8dcdcc5c966fe3f9076b0a4b2915.jpg

[UV]

Looks as if the empennage went through several re-designs.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x329/0b5b8cc6_469d_4ec2_94ee_5c4cd48529b9_c7999a1594b67a48f20015e 1176c34f57516abeb.png

[Self loading bear]

The Putzer SR.57 Bussard?



Noyade nails it down again!
The Putzer SR.57 Bussard.
Although I had it with a ducted propeller

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x324/33f19fbe_23a2_437c_8680_9b99cd454199_c1f1686b09d15f653bdcaeb 3729fe7eff80ab90d.jpeg


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x603/0c0fbdb5_18f1_47b2_a679_cbc45a43b353_93fc904329e8f4d372fb7b4 ab7de3f57a462d1c3.jpeg

[Noyade]

Thanks Bear!


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x511/american_trawler_988b06f6027e5cba2667c1df015bcc92331df4c1.jp g

[Noyade]

From the USSR.
First flight in 1933.
Seventy nine built (Wiki).
Two pilots and six passengers.
Power was a 480 hp M-22 (Gnome-Rhone Jupiter).
Used by Aeroflot until the summer of 1941 - then taken over for military work.

[Self loading bear]

American?
I only see 2 bladed propellers with Ryan and Stinsons,
Distinctive wide window frame, but no hits.

[Noyade]

American?

No mate, Soviet - see my post above you.

[Self loading bear]

No mate, Soviet - see my post above you.

Thanks,
(I did not refresh the thread before sending)

[Self loading bear]

I was a bit Max-ed at the start and only started to catch up yesterday evening.
You did not have to give it all away by dropping that Safety car in like that.
Russian would have been enough:

Putilov Stal -3

[Noyade]

You did not have to give it all away

That's okay - I don't mind. As a gastroenterologist tells me - "I like to see regular movement."


Putilov Stal -3

Indeed it is - now we move forward. :)

[Self loading bear]

Thank you Jensdad!

Some light digestive:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/944x357/871cfab3_5081_49ef_9993_7aa720f60ce3_ccd00aefca7387835800801 2588b080a6b3000ec.jpeg

[Noyade]

That would be No.5, from Monte -Copter. :)


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/899x359/scan0811_d91df96059ff5af42a9371706415471a01f23889.jpg

[Self loading bear]

That would be No.5, from Monte -Copter. :)



Photo 5 = Nr 15 Monte copter triphibian.

Over to you Noyade.

[Noyade]

Thanks bear! Interesting concept by Monte-Copter.
This is better known...


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/734x518/huey_b9cdde061bc5d44caad16453759cdc57e098b9a4.jpg

[dixi188]

Britten Norman Islander fuselages at , I guess, Bembridge.

[Noyade]

Over to you dixi188.
:ok:

[dixi188]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/591x443/img_20140328_190326_1_f435e45e55ac1806a7eba722250ae49bc78bfb ad.jpg
Always liked this one as my daughter's name is Joanne.

[kcockayne]

Airbus A220 ?

[Self loading bear]

Saab 340????

[dixi188]

No to both.

[Self loading bear]

AVRO RJ85 EI-RJO

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/373x280/c344da90_bff1_48da_8053_874163aef7c1_6e7dd82a67121a86ad98ed0 34382d0810389e171.jpeg

[dixi188]

Thats the one SLB.
I worked on it at Exeter a few years ago.

[Self loading bear]

There used to quite some RJs at Norwich for maintenance (by KLM??)

Now something of the interbellum:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/789x400/2d0031a2_932f_43c9_bc9f_53abb76adc41_18c994dcd581cd3bd9a3101 09b4cca0f151d8da2.jpeg

[Self loading bear]

A clue is posted in the Which Aerodrome thread.

[Self loading bear]

I am afraid this is the only other picture of the aircraft I could find.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/559x446/28c02653_7fbf_4874_ad8a_5a759513affc_76c3061772b149315085c51 fb880d3555c77d916.jpeg

I also have a Layout drawing (I still have to mask that one)

[Noyade]

A one-off European?
I think I have eliminated German.

[Asturias56]

I think its the NAVO-06

https://www.bhic.nl/ontdekken/verhalen/de-navo-een-cuijkse-vliegtuigfabriek-in-1920

Googled Dutch aircraft civil 19020's and got a mention of NAVO - who I'd never heard of - but that took me (eventually ) to the site above

[Self loading bear]

A one-off European?
I think I have eliminated German.

Indeed a European on-off.
Its designers were actually German but it is not registered as German.
In fact it was never registered due to engine problems.

[Self loading bear]

I think its the NAVO-06

https://www.bhic.nl/ontdekken/verhalen/de-navo-een-cuijkse-vliegtuigfabriek-in-1920

Googled Dutch aircraft civil 19020's and got a mention of NAVO - who I'd never heard of - but that took me (eventually ) to the site above

sorry refreshing thread is somehow difficult on my IPhone after a system update.
It is indeed the NAVO 6 or RK-220.

This was the only machine developed by Nederlandse Automobiel en Vliegtuig Onderneming.
Located in Cuijk South of Nijmegen.

It was underpowered and the engine gave problems.

[Asturias56]

I have to admit I was astonished - clearly they were decent engineers and yet they've never been mentioned before on here!!!!

Try this :-

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/374x507/2021_12_22_112338_bd0fac964688b7c4a9229cb4ab158df077c2804c.j pg

[Noyade]

The Indonesian NU-200 Sikumbang (Bee).
Designed to be a single-seat ground-attack aircraft with a maximum speed of 160 mph at sea level.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIPNUR_Sikumbang

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x281/59e692bd368ed_pesawat_tempur_si_kumbang_buatan_dalam_negeri_ 63_tahun_yang_lalu_1200_675_ed7927e2b71251026461da0af292a24b b2124f7d.jpg

[Asturias56]

Now I'd really expected this one to run for a week! But yes it's the NU-200

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/889x386/2021_12_22_112320_9dd5f3d37142ecf35433cfd1c44136f8b3995775.j pg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/265x163/2021_12_22_112546_48ae2e3c17718593a88518f49b6a8faf477ee871.j pg

[washoutt]

What a remarkable resemblance to the Fokker S-14 Machtrainer the tail has! Same period of time also.

[Noyade]

Tis the season for giving - I give you OPEN HOUSE.
Merry Christmas from Oz!


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/400x534/20211211_212123_097c88671b088a733e679f6c5aa47a38d5ba9c6e.jpg

[meleagertoo]

Isn't that the plasma tail from the six-engined 5ANT-A lifting-body orbital delivery vehicle?

[bafanguy]

What's the small prop on the right wing leading edge in post #2783 (https://www.pprune.org/11159964-post2783.html)

[Asturias56]

No idea - its very distinctive I agree

[washoutt]

Isn't that an electric generator? Putting it at a convenient place, but then without powered by the engine, requires a propeller, so that it can be driven by the airspeed.

[bafanguy]

Isn't that an electric generator? Putting it at a convenient place, but then without powered by the engine, requires a propeller, so that it can be driven by the airspeed.

Could be, I suppose. But then it wouldn't work at taxi speeds ?

[Self loading bear]

Open House:
Merry Christmas from the Netherlands:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/768x512/d2ac8903_8a84_476a_b30c_424e9d41850a_b80059d691689e3880b3772 beea7513dbd14dae4.jpeg

[meleagertoo]

Much too small for en electric generator, it's a vacuum pump for gyro instruments. Same on the Avro 504K's (?) fwd inboard strut above.

[washoutt]

Aha, thanks.

[Self loading bear]

Much too small for en electric generator, it's a vacuum pump for gyro instruments. Same on the Avro 504K's (?) fwd inboard strut above.

Congratulations Mel!
AVRO 504 It is.
I will take it from you about the K - version.

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/288x266/screenshot_2021_12_26_at_15_07_31_6f3d5bb4c1d7acc61d4301a73f cfc803ad0a02f3.png

[Pypard]

Looks like Yeovilton from the barrier colour.

[Herod]

Fairey Delta 2 WG 777. If not, let someone else post the other one.

[Pypard]

Maybe not Yeovilton then...

[Herod]

If I'm wrong, can someone please post the other one? There were only two built.

[Self loading bear]

If I'm wrong, can someone please post the other one? There were only two built.

I think Mel is away for some time or it might be he wants to hear BAC-221?
if so then Open House on this occasion. Credits to Pypard and Herod.

[Pypard]

MMm. I'm thinking Cosford now. It was a 50/50 choice after all...

[Herod]

Credit to Pypard. I have to admit to being very familiar with this one, so it wasn't really a fair one for me to enter. I volunteer at Cosford, and, since this is a favourite of mine, pat her on the wingtip each time I'm there. The one at Yeovilton is WG 774, and as SLB noted, is now a BAC 221, having been modified as part of the Concorde trials. If Mel is happy, you go ahead, Pypard.

[Pypard]

No I'm happy to defer: it's the FD.2 after all, not the BAC 221 as I'd first thought.

[meleagertoo]

Herod has it - it is indeed the FD2 at Cosford.

[Herod]

Thanks. OPEN HOUSE

[Herod]

Open House, as I don't have anything at the moment. A bit of a sitter for me anyway, since I see it on a weekly basis. In fact, I'll be patting it this Thursday. One of the prettier aeroplanes in the museum.

[Asturias56]

Here's one to be going on with..

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/255x222/2021_12_29_102224_dd1ef2997e2deabcdb6ca1e6a90f445939c36b1d.j pg

[Asturias56]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/186x166/2021_12_29_102048_f085fa15518ba424925e01a3f25ee24d27fd0e89.j pg

[Noyade]

Hmmm...I believe we're in Romania?
An IAR product - fighter?

[Asturias56]

Yes correct country - only one built IIRC and it didn't end well...

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/251x181/2021_12_29_102104_1ff4e624bfb381b14f736d450416457c025507e8.j pg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/355x310/2021_12_29_102117_ba570ee4d67066651eca87632c7759b63ba7babd.j pg

[Noyade]

Looking at your front shot again - probably this machine...?

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x573/scan0856_60811bed4d410e849a9ff3d8edf8171037ee3a5a.jpg

[Asturias56]

Yes - correct! First of many IAR designs (most of which did better than the first one)


Happy New Year

[Noyade]

Thanks A'56.

Nuther Nose....


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/784x349/nose_a42fb289cdcbdd49555f012e8211104e795858ab.png

[Pypard]

Looks Italian.

[Asturias56]

I'd say it looks Russian ............................

[Pypard]

Pretty sure it's Italian.

[Asturias56]

Do you have something in mind?

[Pypard]

FIAT G.80? One from the dark recesses via old Observer's Books :)

[Noyade]

FIAT G.80? One from the dark recesses via old Observer's Books :)

God bless William Green. 🙌
Over to you Pypard. :ok:

[Pypard]

OK how about this handsome chap?

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x801/image1_ee9a4ae47e5b63f2cb16014a6d00777c1a0aee54.jpg

[ea200]

Kinner Playboy R-5? Pretty sure that's a Kinner engine.

[Pypard]

Well that didn't take long: over to you ea200!

[meleagertoo]

Handome toy!

[ea200]

Thanks Pypard. Happy New Year to all on this thread. Have a go at this one:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/646x527/aircraft8_d9998cdac5a2ba6f7114f27cdd9abcdf93f40ad0.jpg

[India Four Two]

Going back to the Kinner Playboy, it is clear that a lot of effort was put into streamlining and drag reduction. I often wonder why the designer just didn't build a cantilever wing and get rid of all those wires. Was the weight penalty too much?

[Pypard]

Going back to the Kinner Playboy, it is clear that a lot of effort was put into streamlining and drag reduction. I often wonder why the designer just didn't build a cantilever wing and get rid of all those wires. Was the weight penalty too much?

The arrangement is very much like the Boeing P-26; a braced monoplane with heavy emphasis on streamlining. I have seen it a lot and assume it's just the natural evolution from biplane to fully cantilevered metal monoplane. Possibly more about confidence of the designer and confidence of the owner/passenger than anything else? It does remind me of chicken rivets on composite structure, so again there isn't anything new under the sun...

[India Four Two]

Pypard,

As you said, probably natural evolution in design ideas and confidence. Some designers were obviously evolving their thinking faster than others. Only three years after the Playboy’s first flight in 1933, the 200 mph Spartan Executive flew:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x667/d4317a17_d9c0_4788_b790_3e6d5234403b_50c6447d79f0e7e6735a48e 98a75441bf1535618.jpeg

[Noyade]

Pypard,
Only three years after the Playboy’s first flight in 1933, the 200 mph Spartan Executive flew.

A Kinner was somewhere around $3,000 back then.
The Spartan - $23,500.

[innuendo]

Don't want to derail the thead but Mr Rininger is a pretty fine photographer.
Very nice shot.

[ea200]

Nobody biting on this challenge yet. Does this help?


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/466x403/aircraft9_839300386271d63159d1bbf46947996d2c45b00f.jpg

[meleagertoo]

Lord! What was the mindset back then of not wanting/needing to see forward?

[Noyade]

Armed and dangerous?

[ea200]

Dangerous possibly. Armed no. Although it was designed to carry defensive weaponary but never did.

[Self loading bear]

Looks like a German 6 in line motor but could not find any matching German ww1 aircraft?

[ea200]

It is indeed a 6cyl German engine. Water cooled as you may have seen from the underslung radiator. It is not a German aircraft though and it is post WW1. Been very quiet on this challenge and I was going to post further clues shortly. But I will let you and others ponder things for a little longer.

[ea200]

Further clue required I think. This aircraft was the only example of the type and AKAIK it only flew once, with the designer/builder at the controls. I've flown some types with poor visibility but I wouldn't fancy that one.

[Shackman]

Designed to be slung under something much bigger?

[ea200]

I don't believe so and I very much doubt it. It had a MAUW of over 1.25 metric tons.

[MReyn24050]

Looks a delightful aircraft to me.

[Self loading bear]

Looks a delightful aircraft to me.

Now I am wondering what clue or pun is hidden here?

[ea200]

Well I know what it means so your can draw your own conclusions.

[meleagertoo]

It's a Vecihi K-VI, a type that seems to have almost entirely evaded the Internet age as there is virtually nothing published about it other than the scantiest details. I can't even find the engine type beyond it's a Benz, though a D III would seem a likely candidate, in part due to their taste for the chimney arrangement.

Turkish - hence the delight - thanks MReyn

https://www.dailysabah.com/history/2020/01/28/95-years-ago-vecihi-hurkus-propelled-turkey-into-the-skies

[ea200]

Meleagertoo has it with with the Vecihi K-VI, the first Turkish built aircraft. Vecihi Herkus the designer went on to be quite prolific with later Vehici models and flew many types during his long aviation career. He eventually started an airline. I am not sure how MReyn meant it, I hadn't thought of Turkish delight. It just happens that Vehici translates roughly as 'delightful' which I thought he had spotted. Interestingly Herkus translates as Freebird so he had a great name for an aviator.

Over to Meleagertoo.

[treadigraph]

Interestingly Herkus translates as Freebird so he had a great name for an aviator.

Maybe he was a Lynyrd Skynyrd fan... ;)

[ea200]

It's a Vecihi K-VI, a type that seems to have almost entirely evaded the Internet age as there is virtually nothing published about it other than the scantiest details. I can't even find the engine type beyond it's a Benz, though a D III would seem a likely candidate, in part due to their taste for the chimney arrangement.

Turkish - hence the delight - thanks MReyn

https://www.dailysabah.com/history/2020/01/28/95-years-ago-vecihi-hurkus-propelled-turkey-into-the-skies

Quite a bit of information here. https://tayyarecivecihi.com/vecihi-hurkus/hurkusun-kullandigi-102-tip-ucak/ilk-turk-ucagi-vecihi-k-vi/ Google translate does a reasonable job.

[meleagertoo]

Challenge deleted - I can't be certain myself!
An upskirt-view of a rocket engine at Cosford, so either a Walter 109 (Me163 Komet) or the Spectre on the SR53. Silly boy...

ps. Herkus Bey was a pretty impressive character from what little I've learned of him, a true pioneer and though that particular type was a rather clumsy first effort he learned quickly and achieved much - a pioneer whose name deserves to be better known.

Open House

[dixi188]

Are we looking at the business end of a rocket engine?
SR53?

[meleagertoo]

I'll accept the device's name or type involved.
But it isn't a SR53!

[Self loading bear]

Looked at X-1 and X-15 but neither.
Found pictures of the bell mouth of the Lunar Module Decent engine,
looks different but some similarities. I could not find pictures of the Lunar Module Ascent engine.
Right track?

[meleagertoo]

Well, SLB, the very general picture is there.
As with all technologies there are similarities, just as the chimney-stack on the Turkish belle gives away an era.
Keep going, too early yet for clues.

[Pilot DAR]

From back in October; Pypard posted a photo of CF-WFO dropping a jumper. A friend of mine owned that jump school and plane in Ontario, back in the early 70's, before I knew him.

More recently, I have flown its sister ship, CF-WFN on both wheels and floats. It has been restored by its owner, and is the only Found Centennial (of five made) which flies:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x600/wfn_wheels_e1dc8f906ef3c88ea8266b20afa389e4e14fc5f7.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x600/wfn_floats_b0f857efcd76d9e512118781cc2312a884e5a26c.jpg

[Self loading bear]

Mel,
I think you have taken a photo of the Armstrong Siddeley Stentor rocket which powered the Blue steel rocket?

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x1200/3fec6d98_0f19_4cb5_a602_374c84230606_dcdcb450d87ec0ca271dfba 82c2b88415c13baa3.jpeg

May I offer on a similar note:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/295x574/5c85b4b3_b651_4f39_a568_46245add96b1_3aeef97537ba590f734f127 a846e8eb8c8f2d57d.jpeg

[meleagertoo]

Yeah, you're right!
D'uh oh!

Open House due senility!
Sorry, everyone.

[Self loading bear]

No problem
My second photo is the new challenge.

[Noyade]

Rear end of a Leduc ramjet?

[Self loading bear]

Rear end of a Leduc ramjet?

Definitely The Leduc 022
over to you Noyade,

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x600/0dbb8a67_5544_4392_ad7e_4b48c0d7d82f_a8d119d18e6975908e54db7 51b44a386f7606740.jpeg

[Noyade]

Thanks Bear...

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x334/scan0881_43b68c7712eb80a4d97f144c4891493f7fdd917e.jpg

[Noyade]

Australian - circa 1995.

[Noyade]

Not able to monitor this one from today - so, time to reveal the Brand JB-2.

OPEN HOUSE.

https://aeropedia.com.au/content/brand-jb-2/

[India Four Two]

I had no idea what it was, but I bet it made an interesting noise in flight!

[Self loading bear]

I had no idea what it was, but I bet it made an interesting noise in flight!

I was also not able to find it.
Even with the hints 1995 and Australian.
With pronounced distortions at 90,180 and 270 degrees and a two bladed propeller the sound must indeed have been distinctive.

I now found some more about it:
Aeropedia (https://aeropedia.com.au/content/brand-jb-2/)

[treadigraph]

Just came across this still-born project of which I had never previously heard... I'll put it up as a quickie as I expect somebody will know!

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x469/ia_36_145e7009f67e439d1a3ade4b86adfea7a49f910b.jpg


edit: I've a got a very early start on Thursday, so may hit the sack before the 24hr wait is up tomorrow evening and will be on limited access over the next few days, so if anyone calls it correctly after 10pm tomorrow, please feel free to carry on without me! :)

[meleagertoo]

People gonna be even more amazed when they learn who designed it!
And yet more astounded to learn who all-but copied it some years later.

[MReyn24050]

I was also not able to find it.
Even with the hints 1995 and Australian.
With pronounced distortions at 90,180 and 270 degrees and a two bladed propeller the sound must indeed have been distinctive.

I now found some more about it:
Aeropedia (https://aeropedia.com.au/content/brand-jb-2/)
Thanks SLB. I am intrigued to know how the rear fuselage was attached to the main structure.

[Haraka]

Thanks SLB. I am intrigued to know how the rear fuselage was attached to the main structure.
Me Too .! It seems nonsensical from the impression given by the photography/

[meleagertoo]

Why would that be a puzzle? One of the supporting webs is clearly visible, there will be more. No different to an Edgely Optica.
I'm intrigued to know how the engines were to be accessed for service. There were quite a lot of them, it must have been one heck of a crush in there!

[MReyn24050]

Why would that be a puzzle? One of the supporting webs is clearly visible, there will be more. No different to an Edgely Optica.

The Edgley Optica was totally different it was a twin tail boom aircraft.

[meleagertoo]

It still had a fuselage separated from the powerplant and empennage by an annular ring.

[Self loading bear]

I have seen this recently, but I cannot remember where.
I recall 5 or 6 engines?
I can think of various compressor stall issues when upper engine intakes are blinded at take-off angles.
or the lieu side intakes at higher slide slip angled

[treadigraph]

Meleager, I think MReyn is referring to the previous mystery picture - the type is rather similar to those Austrian light aircraft from the 1960s whose name escapes me.

Self Loading Bear, five Nenes I think it was.

[sablatnic]

Meleager, I think MReyn is referring to the previous mystery picture - the type is rather similar to those Austrian light aircraft from the 1960s whose name escapes me.

Self Loading Bear, five Nenes I think it was.

You aren't thinking of the Fanliner and Fantrainer from Rhein Flugzeugbau?

[treadigraph]

No, Brditschka's line of light aircraft...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brditschka_HB-3

[MReyn24050]

No, Brditschka's line of light aircraft...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brditschka_HB-3
Thanks treadigraph for the link
Looking at the Brand JB-2 photograph again it is possible to make out the lower link and one assumes the top link is via the propeller hub in a similar fashion to the HB Brditschka HB 23 2400. The HB design is much more substantial.

[washoutt]

Looking sat the JB-2, with such a structural arrangement,one wonders about the bending moments with rudder deflections, not to mention fatigue stress at the prop hub.

[Self loading bear]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x469/ia_36_145e7009f67e439d1a3ade4b86adfea7a49f910b.jpg


Treadigraph,

Either everybody is waiting on your return, or they do not have anything to post themselves.
Anyway I found back Kurt Tank’s Argentinian project IA36 Condor.
Do we really have used all real flying aircraft already?

[treadigraph]

I wasn't aware threads is just for completed and flown aircraft, thought it was an interesting if flawed design,.of which I had never heard. Well done for finding it and your control...


And yet more astounded to learn who all-but copied it some years later.

Who was that and what was the design?

[Self loading bear]

I wasn't aware threads is just for completed and flown aircraft, thought it was an interesting if flawed design,.of which I had never heard. Well done for finding it and your control...


Thank you Treadi,

Well the rules are not written in stone. And if I would have found it inappropriate I would not have answered it.
This was a clearly recognizable design in an advanced stage and windtunnel tests have been done.

I just think we must not let ourselves slip that we are going to post all garden shed made flip-flap helicopter fabrications which couldn’t hop over the chicken fence. (exaggerated, but I am sure all posters will get the drift)
Onwards and upwards.

Now this:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/938x667/180f1b95_3247_40dd_b29f_84b57b8e5f92_7a1d1ba62452936989bd18c c885082b903fe2a55.jpeg

[Allan Lupton]

Pobjoy engines I think, but it's not a British aeroplane. Based on SLB's location I'll suggest it's Dutch (or Dutch colonial).

[meleagertoo]

Who was that and what was the design?

Armstrong Whitworth 167.
All but a carbon-copy!
Powered by - guess what - five Sapphires! What was the attraction with 5 engines for this configuration I wonder?


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/476x203/screenshot_2022_01_22_at_12_07_52_6a821a381509d29f5f04d17d82 6f6f1a5fd65d94.png

[treadigraph]

Thanks, that is similar... also both designs scream "Caravelle" though I think that was designed about the same time though possibly slightly earlier?

[meleagertoo]

Caravelle was concieved c.1952 and flew in 1955.
The AW167 was reportedly a project from 1955 but there is precious little to be found about it.
The first thing I thought looking at the Condor was Caravelle influence and that project allegedly started in 1951 but at what stage it began to look so like a Caravelle is anyone's guess. Of course they all must have been heavily influenced by the Comet which was the Daddy of them all; we know the Caravelle was part Comet anyway.

[Allan Lupton]

Of course they all must have been heavily influenced by the Comet which was the Daddy of them all; we know the Caravelle was part Comet anyway.
There was an early DH106 project which was a canard and which had three engines buried in the rear fuselage. We were able to quote that layout when Sud Aviation wanted us to pay royalties for the rear-engined layout of the Trident.

[meleagertoo]

Oh, it's dutch colonial alright, and a very interesting design, though about as obscure as any challenge we've had here.
Shame it didn't survive the war, it might have made a name for itself.

[Self loading bear]

Very accurate suggestion of Allan!
I should have started with this beautiful tailwheel:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/510x711/c0f600a7_58c2_4735_be52_a1d1798d4a77_fdfce13aee821970c21d4fe 764daf9c7551a00e7.jpeg

[Self loading bear]

Last clue

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1674x962/90110134_b54b_442f_9fa2_449930620923_81452383b8f4c182c34300a 1757f18f74112196a.jpeg

[Allan Lupton]

Well, since PK was Dutch East Indies one can conclude it was one of Laurens Walraven's designs and I'll say it was Walraven 2 - found on the internet so unreliable. but it's all I can offer.

[Self loading bear]

Well, since PK was Dutch East Indies one can conclude it was one of Laurens Walraven's designs and I'll say it was Walraven 2 - found on the internet so unreliable. but it's all I can offer.

It definitely is Allan!
over to you.

[Allan Lupton]

Thanks SLB! I can't offer such an elegant aeroplane and I expect this is well-known but here it is anyway:
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/341x382/bloke_wheel_engine_b8e56cd300d5094974ff89b43756b86e8e0265ad. jpg

[oxenos]

Beardmore Inflexible.. OH if corect.

[Allan Lupton]

I think I cannot reply until it's been posted for 24 hours, so 19:24 this evening

[Allan Lupton]

Beardmore Inflexible.. OH if corect.
It is correct of course. I had hoped that since the Beardmore Inflexible, like Walraven 2, does not appear in my Big Book of Aeroplanes it might take longer.
Here's a more straightforward view:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x571/beardmore_inflexible_top_e2b9ab558736b772707885d04b8d11f1dba 734c1.jpg
Oxenos has declared Open House

[oxenos]

I have already called OH in this.

[Allan Lupton]

Well my previous offering having been quickly solved I'll try another one. How about the forward view from this?

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1118x964/noview_7961c7166ad980dbfcfee56030899d1495b75aa1.jpg

[treadigraph]

Pretty certain that is the DH-71, the original Tiger Moth one-off 1920s racer.

Wasn't there a reproduction underway?

[condor17]

Allan L , all the T1s, 1Es , 2s and 3s I walked around for 12 yrs had small plate on each engine 1 and 3 stub . '' Licenced built from Sud-Aviation '' .

rgds condor

[Allan Lupton]

Pretty certain that is the DH-71, the original Tiger Moth one-off 1920s racer.

Wasn't there a reproduction underway?
Yes you're right so over to you.
I think two were built, but neither survives. With that cockpit I can't see the attraction of a reproduction, but what do I know?

[Allan Lupton]

Allan L , all the T1s, 1Es , 2s and 3s I walked around for 12 yrs had small plate on each engine 1 and 3 stub . '' Licenced built from Sud-Aviation '' .

rgds condor
And I thought we'd won that one. Shows the fallibility of memory, particularly in matters one was on the fringe of.

[treadigraph]

Ah, yes, 2 DH-71s built, one went to Australia where it eventually crashed, the other was destroyed by bombing during the war. It seems there are two reproductions; one in the US has flown, while Mike Souch had one under way in conjunction with Nick Parkhouse, now with another owner. Looked to have been pretty complete a decade or two back.

Here's the next challenge, though I expect it won't last long...

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x480/pulqui_i_0e6cbfce3fbc51d433cf3386e2324fbbabaf3c43.jpg

[kenparry]

I.A.E 27 prototype, from 1947. Derwent powered. The first jet from Latin America.

[meleagertoo]

From a designer with a very recognisable name - I had no idea of the length and breadth of his influence.
It sounds as if he had a rough life all the same.
The Pulqui is a much better looking toy than most of its contemporaries imho.

[treadigraph]

'Tis indeed the FMA Pulqui (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FMA_I.Ae._27_Pulqui_I) - Ken Parry, you have control, Sir!

[kenparry]

Thank you; short interlude while I find something

[kenparry]

OK: here's one to try:
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x715/2022_01_31_120315_copy_cda92b6985087ec1a5e1b0306e96ba780f4f5 543.jpg
With apologies for the quality of the image

[dash7fan]

Zlin 126 ?

[kenparry]

Can neither confirm nor deny until 24 hr from posting. Watch this space.........................................

[kenparry]

No, not the Zlin 126

[kenparry]

Perhaps time for a clue. It's European, from a nation with limited history of aircraft manufacture.

[Noyade]

Ikarus Aero 2D ?

[kenparry]

Noyade is spot on. You have control.

[Noyade]

Thanks Ken. Couple of things about the photo didn't look like the Aero - but there you go.




https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x658/scan0882_134a920161106314f60f4c7152f6ab25909d710a.jpg
Bombs Away!

[India Four Two]

Let's try to narrow it down. Japanese?

[Noyade]

Let's try to narrow it down. Japanese?

Not Japanese...

[Noyade]

Spanish....

[Noyade]

My apologies - work/health/family problems - I forgot this was still running.
But not any more.

OPEN HOUSE.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x381/scan0883_0b62c749a7537dfaac47901fa4c558af65093e70.jpg

[Self loading bear]

I stumbled over this one:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1909x858/09a725d2_34d1_4d81_9515_91f5ef6b951f_9683be1597b7646eb12a4e4 c1758b377cc4c3db4.jpeg

[kenparry]

What an ugly cow of an aircraft.

Italian perhaps?

[Noyade]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x506/scan0887_489a9fe050c44e2b68f42271f050b620488c90c1.jpg
Open House.

[Self loading bear]

Noyade is fully correct with the Piaggio P16

Oprn House called

[Self loading bear]

No takers on the open house
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1018x340/6567403f_3913_4e42_95b1_fccefb2a158a_e9fcbe63b8b6ce62b9c0581 9d51eb91197cbaae4.jpeg

[Asturias56]

Bear - I take it we're still o OH as that picture has been posted before IIRC?

[Self loading bear]

Asturias,
I have to confess I have not checked the thread on it.
Let’s leave it for the youngsters on the thread?
edit: I did just check and doesn’t come up in this thread.
Should be an excellent challenge on the silhouette thread if that is ever to be played again

[Asturias56]

aaaaaaaaaaagggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh I saw it while trying to solve an earlier challenge - can I remember it??

'Course not................... :{

as you say - let those with a few brain cells try and find it..............

[Self loading bear]

Same plane different people

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/521x150/be8e64c3_4a0c_44dc_8689_86fef0c7c80d_63405c7d4f722086383d03e 2301d4728964c0d6a.jpeg

[treadigraph]

Looks like a Luscombe 8 to me....

[Self loading bear]

Looks like a Luscombe 8 to me....

Also known as the Luscombe or TEMCO Silvaire.
But I certainly see no difference!

Treadigraph has control

[treadigraph]

New type to me:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/964x521/weird_6ec935127b31bba59fd8d3678e34fc99bc9048c5.jpg

[Noyade]

From an old book - "Aeroplanes of Tomorrow."


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x360/scan0906_201b3fed1deb852d558eca213b303f00c75a6b64.jpg

[treadigraph]

24hrs+ Anyone going to go for the answer? I'll have to look it up to check you are correct! :ok:

[Self loading bear]

Sorry I am tilted but it does ring a bell!

[Noyade]

24hrs+ Anyone going to go for the answer?

Here we go then...


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x638/scan0910_a274e622ae497df686924b6a6a42507240fa645e.jpg

[treadigraph]

It's a formality - correct! You have control...

[Noyade]

Thanks mate!
The next one...


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x314/scan0909_7c3683d8b890467a21619987f20135c5b273e38d.jpg

[Asturias56]

Is it Russian?

[treadigraph]

No, looks quite slow to me... :\

[Asturias56]

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Noyade]

Is it Russian?

No sir....

[Beamr]

Striking resemblance to Dornier Do P.

[Noyade]

Striking resemblance to Dornier Do P.

Very striking! Well identified - :ok:

[Beamr]

Thank you sir.
What kind of thoughts does this spring to mind?

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/404x126/oddone_04468bfbbaa227e7ef707568f8a6a0acdc00f50b.jpg

[Asturias56]

My initial reaction was the York but the engines are wrong of course

perhaps the Breguet 763 Deux Ponts?

[Noyade]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x183/scan0916_550c22d5fa5f7ba81f53a1f0e1d770cf3341055c.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/405x632/scan0915_6d88aa7d4bc713a5a994279fc1bbefac2cfa2b46.jpg

[Asturias56]

I presume it did fly?

[Beamr]

I presume it did fly?
indeed it did.

[Self loading bear]

C87 Liberator Express?
I doubt it as wing root looks wrong

[cavuman1]

Perhaps Boeing 377 Stratocruiser?

- Ed

[Beamr]

One asks to identify the most produced sweep wing fighter jet in the world and suppose it gets hit in a whiplash. But is not.
Then one asks to identify a very rare transport AC of the 1950's (only 12 built before going into oblivion), and it is identified in a flash.
Funny when you think of it.

So it was Asturias56 that came with the correct answer in a flash: Bréguet 763 Provence also known as the "Deux-Ponts".
Noyade being kind enough to provide blueprints as well.

Asturias56, well done, your call!

[Asturias56]

This is indeed true - - I think we're a bunch of enthusiasts and any enthusiast (see Twitchers) is FAR more interested in the one-off "failure" rather than the vast swarms of the successful.

In my case I think it was all those early Observers etc books of the early '60's - they were desperate to pad themselves out and so when it came to Transports- France - ??? there was only the Nor-atlas and the Deux Ponts


I don't think this one has appeared:-

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/262x315/2022_03_07_102556_488d576fae6a7ca0228454ce9e396086b3ed1a7e.j pg

[Asturias56]

designed with the help of a major manufacturer from another country - only 1 built I think as obsolescent by the time it was completed - tho the protoype flew for another 12 years or so so obviously well built

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/426x471/2022_03_07_102518_48de0fee543bbeae7aaa77fe808304225431591a.j pg

[India Four Two]

Are we in Japan, looking at a Naval aircraft?

[Asturias56]

not Japan - in fact a long flight from Japan..... the aircraft was designed to be multi-role - land, naval and float. Not sure if it ever tested in any of the watery roles .

I think the intent was to start with an order of 18 but it never made it

[Pilot DAR]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x823/cockpit_cf49b1388ee2f67d6df645057ea5fffd0314e0fe.jpg
A type currently in service....

[piesupper]

Beluga. Airbus answer to SuperGuppy and Dreamlifter-



OH if correct

[Asturias56]

Sorry guys - no-one has answer my challenge of 14th March......................... :bored:

[Self loading bear]

Sorry I did not have much time to search yet,

Actually I thought the moderator had posted the beluga as a hint to your challenge?

[Asturias56]

It's OK - all sorted - confusion over the "rules"

try this picture - there si a small clue in it................
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/950x469/99_1_6efa053e688e49dea4606ae9e71fe7c566477b0a.jpg

[Self loading bear]

Latin America?

[meleagertoo]

Are those gentlemen African?

[Asturias56]

No - definitely no! And not Latin America either - Europe - in every sense of the word...................

Look closely folks!

[Self loading bear]

There is a swallow logo between the two persons.
But no clue which make it refers to

[Noyade]

The Greek KEA - "Swallow" - ?

[esreverlluf]

Some kind of Heinkel / Svenska collaboration?

[Asturias56]

Ahhh - progress...................... here's some other pics of the challenge to fill in the time until tomorrow

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/594x279/99_2_5a83c81e4a2c4f10a64d3a6e6f80c0825adaa5a2.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/949x598/97_4_b9df3e944c86be3f0fd2a30f3c02f9c6c959a01c.jpg

[Asturias56]

Time has flown so I can confirm Noyade was is correct - the Greek built KEA Chelidon ("Swallow")

I think it was the second aircraft designed & built in Greece . They had a lot of technical support from Blackburn. According to the reports there wasn't much wrong with it except its performance was poor cp more recent, foreign aircraft. I suspect it was seriously underpowered - as I said the prototype soldiered on to around 1938 so it was a well built airframe

[Self loading bear]

One of the few better looking Blackburn designs !

[Noyade]

Thanks A56 - and thanks for the oesophageal (Swallow) clue SLB.

An easy crop?


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/738x573/crop_5d657ca9c43a83eedbafec16d96b15642255bed7.jpg

[India Four Two]

I presume the little propeller is driving a target winch.


PS Is it a Blackburn Roc?

[Noyade]

It is a target winch. Not a Blackburn Roc.

[meleagertoo]

I call that a Blackburn Botha.

[Noyade]

I call that a Blackburn Botha.

Good call. :ok:

[meleagertoo]

I don't think this one's appeared before.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/123x250/screenshot_2022_03_23_at_11_35_20_a8f261a3e0446c6beb29a15312 07d8ec469dda6a.png

[Beamr]

Probably weren't seen jumping around much.

[meleagertoo]

Didn't think it would last...

[Self loading bear]

The meat isn’t that bad especially when cooked a point.

[Noyade]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x517/scan0932_929c0cbb81a6b70463ed36a14eddcd056c6bb6be.jpg

[Noyade]

The meat isn’t that bad especially when cooked a point.

Can't bring myself to eat part of the national coat of arms. Never tried it - never will. :)

[Noyade]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x722/scan0931_57caf55ab5d9cf4d448b5a86b74cfe72d423cbbc.jpg

[meleagertoo]

Do you know what?
!ts fabulous meat!
Every bit as good as beef-steak.

[Noyade]

Do you know what?
!ts fabulous meat!
Every bit as good as beef-steak.

If you say so. ;)

[Noyade]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x668/20220324_170626_fb3f19462a238cee38b5956480507d9a61b87bab.jpg

[Beamr]

One mans dog food is another mans CAC15...
However I did like it the one time I was served a piece of aforementioned marsupial.
It was much better than the fermented shark in Iceland.

[Asturias56]

Is anyone in charge?

[Beamr]

Is anyone in charge?
I'd say Noyade, he came up with the name. Meleagertoo seems to be AWOL, so should we just announce Noyade winner?

[Self loading bear]

I too think Noyade can take the lead.

[meleagertoo]

Sorry guys, Noyade has it.

[sycamore]

Thought he`s on `sick leave `...hopefully....

[Noyade]

I remain incapacitated with my kangaroo loving dog for company. Please carry on...


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/604x806/20220327_090625_efc07e4b216e9c554a075f60ed6894d9a6de8d1b.jpg

[Beamr]

I'll take it that it's open house, so I'll wish Noyade all the best and get well soon and put this on display on his behalf.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/104x335/guesswho_f045bfa01826c4054044421b85e8e1cbd865fd4f.jpg

[jolihokistix]

Apologies for barging in! May I just borrow your illustrious brains for a moment?

This photo (borrowed with thanks for educational purposes) was in a certain book with a fairly detailed caption including key words like photo reconnaissance, WWI and Ninth Wing, Fienvillers, France 1916. It does not mention what particular aircraft though. Possibly an easy question for some? If so, apologies in advance.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1802/8e321278_294e_4915_8d76_0a5d0e725364_975c52d5349b74c20bcfd05 8eea0dd2a134fc68b.jpeg

[Beamr]

I'd put my money on Martinsyde Elephant. Look at this youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jfohpfqdEY
at 0:07 you can see the wing support mountings matching the picture
at 0:34 you can see the wing root structure which matches the picture.
at 0:55 you can see the upper wing matching the picture.



That camera is C-type, so post summer 1915 but later on the L-model was introduced which was placed inside the hull. This fits the 1916 time frame.
On this picture of a G102 Elephant the similarity to the AC on the picture on your post is significant.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/425x303/image_b1175adfe3d5a3c65a4bfae01f78108743c9db28.png

Edit: I'll add that based on the "reliable" interweb wiki the ninth wing was originally RFC HQ Wing and used Martinsyde G.100's from mid 1916 till 1917 and was used in recon missions in France and Middle-east. Someone better in the know on RFC units and their posts can confirm, complete or prove me wrong...

[jolihokistix]

That is very interesting Beamr and fits together well. I’ll look further into this.

Many thanks in the meantime.

[Beamr]

My pleasure! I love that type of puzzles.

Back on usual program I'll drop the actual quiz picture once more to make sure it doesn't go unnoticed by accident. So, what is standing on its long legs so steadily?

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/104x335/guesswho_f045bfa01826c4054044421b85e8e1cbd865fd4f.jpg

[Asturias56]

Russian perhaps?

[Beamr]

Russian perhaps?
Lets say that this was built close to the Azov sea, not far from the current war zone.

[jolihokistix]

Ukrainian?

[Beamr]

Ukrainian?
It is not.

[Asturias56]

OKB1 -150 perhaps with a carefully cropped tail?

[jolihokistix]

Georgian SU-25?

[Beamr]

Nothing has been cropped from the picture so it is not a T-tail. You gentlemen are closing, other had the era right, the other had the aircraft role right.